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Thinker
05-27-2009, 12:47 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...ce.afghanistan

Why do they want to live in the UK?

Last night I watched a news clip showing hundreds of Afghans in Patra Greece climbing over barbed wire to try and get at lorries travelling to Britain. For years there has been permanent camps in Northern France to house thousands of foreigners all trying to get (illegally) into the UK.

France and Germany are as prosperous if not more prosperous than the UK. Most other EU countries have a superior climate than the UK. None of the other EU countries have sent as many troops to Muslim lands or killed as many Muslims as the UK. Muslims in the UK are bombing UK citizens because they have troops in Muslim countries. So, why are these Afghans killing themselves to get to the UK?

Is it because we don’t have ID cards and so easier to get a job etc.? Is it because we have a more generous benefits system? Or, is it because, in words of our alternative national anthem, it is the ‘Land of Hope and Glory, Mother of the Free?’

WHY?
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north_malaysian
05-27-2009, 12:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Thinker
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...ce.afghanistan

Why do they want to live in the UK?

Last night I watched a news clip showing hundreds of Afghans in Patra Greece climbing over barbed wire to try and get at lorries travelling to Britain. For years there has been permanent camps in Northern France to house thousands of foreigners all trying to get (illegally) into the UK.

France and Germany are as prosperous if not more prosperous than the UK. Most other EU countries have a superior climate than the UK. None of the other EU countries have sent as many troops to Muslim lands or killed as many Muslims as the UK. Muslims in the UK are bombing UK citizens because they have troops in Muslim countries. So, why are these Afghans killing themselves to get to the UK?

Is it because we don’t have ID cards and so easier to get a job etc.? Is it because we have a more generous benefits system? Or, is it because, in the of our alternative national anthem, it is the ‘Land of Hope and Glory, Mother of the Free?’

WHY?
because of the language factor?
Reply

Thinker
05-27-2009, 01:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
because of the language factor?
I did wonder about that but none of the Afghans interviewed spoke any English. Is it easier to learn English than German or French?
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north_malaysian
05-27-2009, 01:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Thinker
I did wonder about that but none of the Afghans interviewed spoke any English. Is it easier to learn English than German or French?
I dont know about Afghanistan... but those in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh learnt English at schools... that's why many of them are in UK..

Just like Malaysians, well thare are not so many of us abroad.. but the favourite choice of countries are Australia, UK, USA and Canada... all because of language factor..

Just like 2 to 3 millions immigrants from Indonesia here in Malaysia... language is one of the factors...
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Thinker
05-28-2009, 09:33 AM
Come on guys help me out here, I’d really like to know why this, surely some of you have spoken to others that got into the UK clinging to the underside of a lorry? I can’t believe that they’d be risking their lives or waste their lives in the squalor of a campsite in France just because they want to speak English!
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'Abd-al Latif
05-28-2009, 10:03 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Thinker
Muslims in the UK are bombing UK citizens because they have troops in Muslim countries.
Oh really? I live in UK, in fact I live in the heart land of UK (London) and yet I never see or hear Muslims bombing anybody - except of course those who have hardly met a muslim and are extremely naive to think this way. Can you direct me to Muslims who do this?

Seriously, what world do you live in?
Reply

Imam
05-28-2009, 10:08 AM
Peace


regarding why Afghans prefer UK to other countries in Europe is the same way why Indians and Pakistani prefers it too,Afghans knows that lots of his fellows Indians and Pakistani there ,so he would feel he will find helpful friends easily..



format_quote Originally Posted by Thinker
I did wonder about that but none of the Afghans interviewed spoke any English. Is it easier to learn English than German or French?
from Arab point of view , I think Spanish the easiest then English,Italian ,French .....

on the other hand

Finnish ,Hungarian, German ,Dutch,Polish to be the hardest...


peace
Reply

S_87
05-28-2009, 10:16 AM
Because the British accent is cool.


Land of Hope and Glory, Mother of the Free?
seriously, in many ways yes....
Reply

aamirsaab
05-28-2009, 10:21 AM
:sl:

Probably trying to escape the war in afghanistan. Not every afghani supports the taliban and not every afghani wants to live in a warzone (I don't think anyone would want to live in one!). Best bet is to get the hell out of their - by any means I suppose.

UK is prime location for many migrants, probably (if not solely) because of the career prospects + education system. That and most migrants already have family or relatives living in the UK, making the deciding factor that much easier.

Granted, I've never spoken to an afghani (migrant or otherwise) so I could be completely mistaken as to why they specifically come to the UK (and not other countries), but I think have highlighted the common denominators when it comes to migration in general.
Reply

Imam
05-28-2009, 12:41 PM
peace


I would like to apologize for the using of the word Paki I used in my last post, I had no idea that it is British Slang Offensive, I thought it is abbreviation of the word Pakistanis...

I have dear friends from Pakistan and would never offend them under any circumstances..

peace
Reply

ardianto
05-28-2009, 04:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Imam
Peace
regarding why Afghans prefer UK to other countries in Europe is the same way why Indians and Pakistani prefers it too,Afghans knows that lots of his fellows Indians and Pakistani there ,so he would feel he will find helpful friends easily..
I have a same opinion. Lots of Indians and Pakistanis are living in UK, and they are closer to Afghanis.
I never went to Europe, but I hear majority of Muslims in France are Maghribi Arabs and Black African. And in Germany are Turkish.
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Whatsthepoint
05-28-2009, 05:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Imam
Peace


regarding why Afghans prefer UK to other countries in Europe is the same way why Indians and Pakistani prefers it too,Afghans knows that lots of his fellows Indians and Pakistani there ,so he would feel he will find helpful friends easily..



from Arab point of view , I think Spanish the easiest then English,Italian ,French .....

on the other hand

Finnish ,Hungarian, German ,Dutch,Polish to be the hardest...


peace
why those two? They are both closely related to English.
Reply

convert
05-28-2009, 05:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by amani
Because the British accent is cool.
soooooooooo false
Reply

جوري
05-28-2009, 06:03 PM
Hard to speak for others.. I have lived in the UK for a couple of yrs and I think they were so painful for me.. The only perk was-- I was getting my antidepressants for around £11 which was relatively cheap? and they treated me for free when I had an anaphylactic shock, suffice it to say, they treated me with meds that would land me personally in a law suit if I tried them here in the U.S i.e Succhinylcholine for starters when i was already having a hell of a time breathing.. nonetheless I was grateful since I thought I'd end up with the million dollar bill..

I found everyone to be very into themselves in England.. everybody came in groups whether they were asians or white brits, and they are really not very friendly to americans despite what they allege just given the many 'american' remarks I heard.. I managed to make friends with a few Irish and a Scottish girl from this store I was frequenting (as shopping is indeed the best remedy for the blues)

It is really very hard for me to think of England as a haven, don't get me wrong sometimes I miss it, I think it is because our memories are always edited for bad and uncomfortable content, but the day to day living there was unbearable at times.. but I think it is probably the least worse place in all of Europe, some of the other places that I have been too were even more isolated and had less to offer.. I don't know..

I can clearly see why folks fled to America when they did from such societies.. save for a few fundie nuts in the bible states.. I think the disparity between the U.S and any country in Europe is almost palpable.. especially if you are legal and have a decent job that is...


p.s: possible also, that they feel the UK has to give back, after all it has monopolized nearly half the world.. even the U.S celebrates its independence from England.. so who knows...(I wouldn't call it mother of the free thing though)
Reply

Imam
05-28-2009, 06:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
why those two? They are both closely related to English.

Though it is said that German is closely related to English, but take a look here

Mark Twain would express how tricky German is even for English speakers

http://www.crossmyt.com/hc/linghebr/awfgrmlg.html

Note: I don't agree with the title of the article ,as in Islam you shouldn't call any language to be awful or to mock it etc.... neither mock the color of any human

Holy Quran 30:22 And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the variations in your languages and your colours: verily in that are Signs for those who know.


----------------

for Arab ,Spanish I believe to be the easiest ...and even easier than English

the reason? It has the easiest pronunciation Arab may find in all Latin based languages and the grammar is the easiest in all Romance languages ....

English the grammar is easy for sure,but the pronunciation for Arab is more difficult than Spanish and Italian too.....

I find Spanish and Italian to be the easiest in Europe to pronounce.

French is not easy for Arabs(with the exception of Moroccans,Algerians,Tunisian) to pronounce .... as it has difficult vowel....

German has this same vowel and has a tricky grammar as well.... so it is more difficult than French......







format_quote Originally Posted by amani

Because the British accent is cool..
compared with American accent.....it is not cool in any sense(from Arab point of view)

and the reason its (Diphthongs) :)


peace
Reply

Whatsthepoint
05-28-2009, 06:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Imam
Though it is said that German is closely related to English, but take a look here

Mark Twain would express how tricky German is even for English speakers

http://www.crossmyt.com/hc/linghebr/awfgrmlg.html
hehe, this gave me quite a laugh:D
Sure, the German grammar is more compliated than English but one gets used to it quickly, genders and cases alike.
english on the other hand has gazillion phrases (so does German but probably much less), an irregular pronounciation system, strange tenses.
But English is much prettier and sounds more natural and its everywhere which makes it easier.
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-28-2009, 06:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Imam
peace


I would like to apologize for the using of the word Paki I used in my last post, I had no idea that it is British Slang Offensive, I thought it is abbreviation of the word Pakistanis...

I have dear friends from Pakistan and would never offend them under any circumstances..

peace
I dont see why its offensive... I call myself it all the time :-[ lol.

Pak means pureee....am I the only not offended? i remember using this before I even knew it was considered offensive. People called me that thinking I'd be offended but I had no clue I just said thank you LOL.
Reply

Whatsthepoint
05-28-2009, 06:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
Hard to speak for others.. I have lived in the UK for a couple of yrs and I think they were so painful for me.. The only perk was-- I was getting my antidepressants for around £11 which was relatively cheap? and they treated me for free when I had an anaphylactic shock, suffice it to say, they treated me with meds that would land me personally in a law suit if I tried them here in the U.S i.e Succhinylcholine for starters when i was already having a hell of a time breathing.. nonetheless I was grateful since I thought I'd end up with the million dollar bill..

I found everyone to be very into themselves in England.. everybody came in groups whether they were asians or white brits, and they are really not very friendly to americans despite what they allege just given the many 'american' remarks I heard.. I managed to make friends with a few Irish and a Scottish girl from this store I was frequenting (as shopping is indeed the best remedy for the blues)

It is really very hard for me to think of England as a haven, don't get me wrong sometimes I miss it, I think it is because our memories are always edited for bad and uncomfortable content, but the day to day living there was unbearable at times.. but I think it is probably the least worse place in all of Europe, some of the other places that I have been too were even more isolated and had less to offer.. I don't know..

I can clearly see why folks fled to America when they did from such societies.. save for a few fundie nuts in the bible states.. I think the disparity between the U.S and any country in Europe is almost palpable.. especially if you are legal and have a decent job that is...


p.s: possible also, that they feel the UK has to give back, after all it has monopolized nearly half the world.. even the U.S celebrates its independence from England.. so who knows...(I wouldn't call it mother of the free thing though)
Americans are much friendlier and more polite.
Reply

Imam
05-28-2009, 07:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Light of Heaven
I dont see why its offensive... I call myself it all the time :-[ lol.

Pak means pureee....am I the only not offended? i remember using this before I even knew it was considered offensive. People called me that thinking I'd be offended but I had no clue I just said thank you LOL.

peace

There was some persons who(seems from the way they post to be the sensitive type) gave me negative rep for such issue !! :D


Holy Quran
49:12 O ye who believe! Avoid suspicion as much (as possible): for suspicion in some cases is a sin.


Peace
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-28-2009, 07:42 PM
Welll Ill give u a rep just so u can get back your rep LOL! Just because a bunch of people use that word to imply negativity doesnt mean it is. They(those who began it) obviously don't know what it means....if they had any idea wat it meant they'd realize they aint dissing anyone but rather complimenting lol. Well thats what i think.
Reply

doorster
05-31-2009, 07:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Light of Heaven
Welll Ill give u a rep just so u can get back your rep LOL! Just because a bunch of people use that word to imply negativity doesnt mean it is. They(those who began it) obviously don't know what it means....if they had any idea wat it meant they'd realize they aint dissing anyone but rather complimenting lol. Well thats what i think.
I did that! I usually give him positive reps, despite his repeated denials concerng 2nd coming of Hz. Isa A.S. (which is contrary to what my Hanfi teacher told me)
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-31-2009, 07:49 PM
Who denies the coming of Isa(as) O.o
Reply

doorster
05-31-2009, 07:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Light of Heaven
Who denies the coming of Isa(as) O.o
Imam does!
:w:
Reply

aadil77
05-31-2009, 07:55 PM
Theres a few afghans in my college, they've only been here for around a year can't speak english properly, but they've got balls lol

I don't know but is it easier for afghans to migrate here, rather than the US or any other eu country?
Reply

Imam
05-31-2009, 08:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by doorster
despite his repeated denials concerng 2nd coming of Hz. Isa A.S. (which is contrary to what my Hanfi teacher told me)

Dear Doorster


The denial is something and the questioning of something (for some reasons)is another...

I'm not the first sunni person who questioned such concept I have quoted lots of sunni scholars(among them the 3 most famous grand Imams of Alazhar in the twentieth century) who questioned it.....


you follow hanafi Mazhab, and I follow no mazhab,I'm just a sunni Muslim who studied all mazhabs(Alhamdullilah) and respect all of them (though respect more mazhab Imam Al-Shafi'i,) but follow strictly none.....

If there is a school I may follow ,it would be the one that disagree with the concept that Muslims could only simply rely on the interpretations of texts provided by medieval clerics, as for them though such interpretations to be respected but not to be treated as sacred,or to be called(old is all the way Gold).

.....

Want to see how profound I reflected the issue of second coming and Mahdi (possibly I got the flawed approach),just open your PM ...and let's discuss it there away from the school (interpretations of texts provided by medieval clerics has to be all the way sacred),and away from being off topic ...:sunny:

If someone tells me he is satisfied with all my ideas but one....
I take that as compliment....

so thanx doorster for your compliment..


and who knows ..may be when you get my research in that point,change your mind? and we stay in accord 100%:sunny:
Reply

doorster
05-31-2009, 08:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Imam
Dear Doorster


The denial is something and the questioning of something (for some reasons)is another...

I'mnot the first sunni person who questioned such concept I have quoted lots of sunni scholars(among them the 3 most famous grand Imams of Alazhar in the twentieth century) who questioned it.....


you follow hanafi Mazhab, and I follow no mazhab,I'm just a sunni Muslim who studied all mazhabs(Alhamdullilah) and respect all of them (though respect more mazhab Shafie) but follow strictly none.....

If there is a school I may follow ,it would be the one that disagree with the concept that Muslims could only simply rely on the interpretations of texts provided by medieval clerics, as for them though such interpretations to be respected but not to be treated as sacred,or to be called(old is Gold).

.....

Want to see how profound I reflected the issue of second coming and Mahdi (possibly I got the flawed approach),just open your PM ...and let's discuss it there away from the school (interpretations of texts provided by medieval clerics has to be all the way sacred),and away from being off topic ...:sunny:
Dear Imam, Salam Alaikum

I can not really reply to you in posts because if you remember, last time when I replied to you on this subject, and when I thought that we were nearing the conclusion, a mod namely abd l latif came and deleted everything destroying a weeks worth of work in seconds?

only way I will take part in detail is if another mod comes to this thread and gives assurances that no abuse of mod powers will take place (i.e abdul latif and abdul rahman will be kept away from this thread).

:w:
Reply

Imam
05-31-2009, 08:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by doorster
Dear Imam, Salam Alaikum

I can not really reply to you post because if you remember, last time when I replied to you on this subject, and when I thought that we were nearing the conclusion, a mod namely abd l latif came and deleted everything destroying a weeks worth of work in seconds?

only way I will take part in detail is if another mod comes to this thread and gives assurances that no abuse of mod powers will take place (i.e abdul latif and abdul rahman will be kept away from this thread).

:w:
We stayed offtopic.... so it was a normal procedure......

I don't think the moderators biased ,and have no criticism against any till now...


I invite you again to discuss in PM ...


BTW.

Bro abdul latif is one of the best who moderated comparative religion section ever .
Reply

doorster
05-31-2009, 09:30 PM
....

reply sent by PM to avoid infractions
Reply

Woodrow
06-01-2009, 04:09 AM
I see two members are entering into a heated debate. It is a very interesting topic and could be a very interesting debate.

Suggestion: Perhaps you can try to conduct the debate by PM, each of you adding me to to get the PMs. After about 2 PMs from each I will try to see if I can find an appropriate place for it as an open forum debate. Perhaps with some input to keep it from becoming sectarian or a fiqh discussion.
Reply

Thinker
06-02-2009, 10:36 AM
Is it just because Britain is too generous?

The UK has 400 border control staff at the port in Calais, France, in 2007 they stopped 12,000 illegal immigrants trying to get from France to England hidden in lorries. That’s just on port of entry, that’s just one year and they have no idea how many they didn’t find but estimate that there’s over 1 million

Ministers have been alarmed by figures showing the number of migrants caught trying to reach Britain by stowing away on lorries at Calais has doubled over the last year (2008) to more than 2,000 a month.

The count of 6,031 in the first three months of this year compares with 2,919 caught by port security services trying to gain access to trucks queueing for ferries between January and March 2008.

Madame Natacha Bouchart, the mayor of Calais, has announced that her city can no longer cope with the hordes of Africans, Eastern Europeans and Asians who end up in and around her town, and has said that the core of the problem is the “cash that Britain showers on the hordes of illegals.

There are some 2,000 would be invaders sleeping rough in the Pas de Calais area. Referring to their living area, called the “jungle,” Mrs Bouchart said: “It’s not a camp; it’s a village. The municipal workers cannot clean it up; they’re not up to it. It needs an intervention by the army. There are more than 80 shelters, a mosque and shops.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...k-Britain.html
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Blackpool
06-02-2009, 10:39 AM
Because the UK is soft. Once you come to the UK you are given free education, health care, immediate employment, benefits, a free house all on the tax payers expense.
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