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Uthman
06-02-2009, 10:21 AM
Drinking a moderate amount of alcohol protects against the development of gallstones, UK researchers say.

Consuming two units a day cuts the chance of developing gallstones by a third, analysis of data from 25,000 men and women showed.
Gallstones are very common but symptoms and complications are only seen in three in 10 cases.

Delegates at a US conference heard that alcohol reduces cholesterol in the bile from which gallstones form.

The researchers used data from a large study set up to look at the link between diet and cancer in men and women in the 45-74 age range.

Alcohol intake was compared with the risk of developing symptomatic gallstones over a 10-year period.

Those who did develop the condition were an average of 62 years old and more than two-thirds were women.

They calculated that those in the highest alcohol group had a 32% lower risk than those who drank no or little alcohol.

For every unit of alcohol extra drunk per week, the risk of gallstones fell by 3%.

The researchers said it had been suggested that alcohol might reduce gallstones through its effects on cholesterol but the magnitude of the effect had not been calculated.

Cholesterol


Gallstones form in the gallbladder from bile and are generally made up of hardened cholesterol.

It is thought that around one in three women and one in six men get gallstones at some point in their life but they are more common in older adults.

Other factors which increase the chances of them forming include pregnancy, obesity, rapid weight loss and some medications.

Moderate alcohol below recommended limits is associated with good health


Professor Chris Hawkey, British Society of Gastroenterology

Study leader Dr Paul Banim, a clinical lecturer at the University of East Anglia and a specialist registrar in gastroenterology, said alcohol was known to increase levels of "good" HDL cholesterol which was also known to be protective against cardiovascular disease and which could alter the composition of cholesterol in the bile.

He said excessive alcohol intake can cause health problems but quantifying how much alcohol reduces the risk of gallstone development allows doctors to offer specific guidance.

His colleague Dr Andrew Hart, a senior lecturer in gastroenterology, said the findings boosted their understanding of how gallstones formed.

"Once we examine all the factors related to their development in our study in the UK, including diet, exercise, body weight and alcohol intake, we can develop a precise understanding of what causes gallstones and how to prevent them."

Professor Chris Hawkey, president of the British Society of Gastroenterology, said the study was interesting but should be interpreted with caution because it only measured an association.

"Nevertheless, previous research has found similar findings and it seems likely to be a real effect.

"The University of East Anglia are producing interesting data on consumption of particular foods and alcohol - for example a recent study from that unit suggests that oily fish may protect against ulcerative colitis.

"Moderate alcohol below recommended limits is associated with good health. But alcohol is addictive and drinkers must be careful not to escalate their intake."

The findings were presented at the Digestive Disease Week annual meeting in Chicago.

COMPLICATIONS OF GALLSTONES

Severe pain
Inflammation and infection
Jaundice

Source
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Uthman
06-02-2009, 10:22 AM
:sl:

If you are wondering why I have posted this, then you should know that I seek only to confirm that which the creator himself has told us when he says:

يَسْأَلُونَكَ عَنِ الْخَمْرِ وَالْمَيْسِرِ ۖ قُلْ فِيهِمَا إِثْمٌ كَبِيرٌ وَمَنَافِعُ لِلنَّاسِ وَإِثْمُهُمَا أَكْبَرُ مِنْ نَفْعِهِمَا

the meaning of which is:
They ask you (O Muhammad SAW) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling.Say: "In them is a great sin, and (some) benefit for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit." (Surah Al-Baqarah:219)
SubhaanAllah! Allah subhaanahu wa ta'aala himself has told us that in the intoxicants there is some benefit but in his infinite wisdom he has made it unlawful for us for the sin of them is greater than their benefit.
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Chuck
06-02-2009, 11:35 PM
vinegar should help with gallstones too.
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Yanal
06-02-2009, 11:38 PM
And is not worth doing haaram.
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Uthman
06-03-2009, 09:40 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Chuck
vinegar should help with gallstones too.
JazakAllah Khayr. That's a good point. I have not found any benefit that can be obtained from drinking intoxicants that cannot be obtained using other methods.
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Strzelecki
06-03-2009, 09:51 AM
Alhamdulillah for Vinegar.
Can someone take me over why it's not haraam?
Given it's origins?
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Uthman
06-03-2009, 09:52 AM
:sl:
format_quote Originally Posted by Sayf Udeen
Alhamdulillah for Vinegar.
Can someone take me over why it's not haraam?
Given it's origins?
Does it make you drunk? :)
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Strzelecki
06-03-2009, 10:24 AM
No. :)
But is it not haraam to handle alcohol? Someone has to make the alcohol/handle it in the first place to get Vinegar.
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Uthman
06-03-2009, 10:46 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sayf Udeen
No. :)
But is it not haraam to handle alcohol? Someone has to make the alcohol/handle it in the first place to get Vinegar.
I'm not a scholar brother, but my understanding is the Qur'an only refers to and prohibits Khamr which is wine due to it's intoxicating effect. The two words alcohol and intoxicants are often used interchangeably but only alcohol in it's intoxicating form (Khamr) is prohibited but just alcohol as a substance in and of itself is not. I'm not a chemistry expert, but I don't think the handling of Khamr is necessary for the production of vinegar but only alcohol as a substance which does not intoxicate is used.

This is what I have understood of the issue and I could be wrong and if so I am open to correction. And Allah knows best.

Interestingly, the word that we use in English (alcohol) actually comes from an arabic word. So do other words such as Alkali and Alchemy but I digress...
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Whatsthepoint
06-03-2009, 10:51 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Uthmān
JazakAllah Khayr. That's a good point. I have not found any benefit that can be obtained from drinking intoxicants that cannot be obtained using other methods.
Well, it feels special, the way drinking vinegar doesn't.
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Uthman
06-03-2009, 10:57 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Well, it feels special, the way drinking vinegar doesn't.
There are other ways to feel special without drinking alcoholic beverages... :D
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crayon
06-03-2009, 10:58 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Well, it feels special, the way drinking vinegar doesn't.
Jannah is special-er.
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Banu_Hashim
06-03-2009, 11:01 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Chuck
vinegar should help with gallstones too.
Yeah... it dissolves them or something like that?
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Whatsthepoint
06-03-2009, 11:07 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Uthmān
I'm not a scholar brother, but my understanding is the Qur'an only refers to and prohibits Khamr which is wine due to it's intoxicating effect. The two words alcohol and intoxicants are often used interchangeably but only alcohol in it's intoxicating form (Khamr) is prohibited but just alcohol as a substance in and of itself is not. I'm not a chemistry expert, but I don't think the handling of Khamr is necessary for the production of vinegar but only alcohol as a substance which does not intoxicate is used
what do you mean?
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Uthman
06-03-2009, 11:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
what do you mean?
Do you know how vinegar is made?
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Whatsthepoint
06-03-2009, 11:19 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Uthmān
Do you know how vinegar is made?
I know how the ethanoic acide is made. From ethanol, so technically vinegar at some point of tis live is intoxicating, though nobody drinks it ebcause its meant to become vinegar.
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Uthman
06-03-2009, 11:27 AM
We need a scholar man :X
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Sampharo
06-03-2009, 02:59 PM
We need a scholar man :X
Would a student do? :D hahaha

Yes, natural vinegar is made from alcohol. There is no harm in doing that or working with alcohol. All scholars have said that handling ethanol and alcohol used in hospitals or using corrector fluid and other liquids that contain alcohol-based thinners or while preparing vinegar are no problem.

Additionally, I was told a story in a lecture that a Sahabi brought the prophet -pbuh- once vineger that was made from wine, and the prophet made sure it turned completely into vineger (I think smelling), and then he used it in his food. That was after Israa And Miraj when intoxicating agents were forbidden.

A gentle point though that intoxicating agents, whether fluid or otherwise, is any material that you take to cause yourself to be "high". That includes drugs whether sniffed powder, smoked doobies, or injected serums. This is based on the prophet's hadith "whatever a lot of would intoxicate you, then a little of it is haraam." None of those however is haraam if they're used in medicinal capacity under the supervision of doctor and there is no equal substitute.

And God knows best.

An interesting point is that there is a myth in that Hanafi allow the use of wine in cooking! That is not true, they however allow COOKED grape and date juice if it starts turning and it's not yet strong enough to intoxicate but may contain alcoholic agent, before it becomes full strength wine, while the other three forbid it from the moment a hint of turning begins.
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transition?
06-03-2009, 03:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by crayon
Jannah is special-er.
;D
so true!
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Uthman
06-03-2009, 03:44 PM
JazakAllah Khayr brother Sampharo. :)
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nebula
06-03-2009, 04:02 PM
if you had loads of alcohol and drank it, it would intoxicate your body and make you drunk right, so taking a drop of this alcohol would be haraam.

If you had loads of cups of vinegar it wouldn't make you drunk and wouldnt intoxicate your body, however you'd get really bad breath and abit burned, so taking a drop of this wouldn't be haraam.

I heard this in a lecture i once listened to quite some time back i hope it makes sense
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Chuck
06-03-2009, 04:04 PM
I don't know why people make it so complicated, simply put, vinegar is not an intoxicant.
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crayon
06-03-2009, 04:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by nebula
if you had loads of alcohol and drank it, it would intoxicate your body and make you drunk right, so taking a drop of this alcohol would be haraam.

If you had loads of cups of vinegar it wouldn't make you drunk and wouldnt intoxicate your body, however you'd get really bad breath and abit burned, so taking a drop of this wouldn't be haraam.

I heard this in a lecture i once listened to quite some time back i hope it makes sense
This is what I know to be true as well.

But something I've wondered about- liquor in chocolates, for example. Is it enough to intoxicate you? Or cooking using wine, most of which evaporates in the cooking process; when you eat the final product, I'm pretty sure it doesn't intoxicate. These 2 examples are also forbidden, as far as I know. Why? Is it because the alcohol was added rather than a natural by product of however the things were made?
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nebula
06-03-2009, 04:13 PM
i dont think it would be allowed to use wine in cooking, this topic is very difficult for my understanding but there is an answer im sure
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ardianto
06-03-2009, 04:51 PM
As Indonesian, I will talk according to Indonesian Muslim prespective.

Liqueur like whiskey, brandy, beer etc are haram to drink even if that just a drop.

Vinegar maybe contains alcohol. However, there's no one drunk after drank vinegar and that's not intoxicate anyone. There is no Indonesian scholar say vinegar is haram.

There is an Indonesian food named 'Tapai' that made from fermentated casava or rice. Tapai really contains alcohol. However, because Tapai never make people drunk, almost all of Indonesian scholar say Tapai is Halal.

There was a beverage named Green Sand that contains 1% alcohol. Although no one drunk causes by Green Sand, all scholar in Indonesia agree Green Sand is Haram, even after they make a new Green Sand without alcohol.

About use wine in cooking or use rhum in cake. Indonesian scholar say "Avoid". I think that is mean haram.
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Caller الداعي
06-03-2009, 05:08 PM
:sl:

There r 2 types of vinegar:
1. synthetically manufactured by using chemicals.
2. made from alcohol.

the second type was popular at the time of the sahabah infact it has been mentioned in the books of ahadith.
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Sampharo
06-03-2009, 06:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by crayon
This is what I know to be true as well.

But something I've wondered about- liquor in chocolates, for example. Is it enough to intoxicate you? Or cooking using wine, most of which evaporates in the cooking process; when you eat the final product, I'm pretty sure it doesn't intoxicate. These 2 examples are also forbidden, as far as I know. Why? Is it because the alcohol was added rather than a natural by product of however the things were made?
No, they are haraam based on the hadith mentioned earlier: "Whatever a lot of which intoxicates, even a little is haraam." Consumption of alcohol itself, even a drop or a hint, is haraam. Cooking with wine is haraam because traces of the wine is in the food and is not completely evaporated, especially in red wine sauce. As for liquor chocolates, ARE YOU KIDDING? non-muslim business associates used to tell me that three of those is like a glass of whiskey!

Anyway, based on the hadith, a drop of intoxicating material mixed in with a whole pot of food renders the whole pot haraam. Vinegar on the other hand is formed OUT of the process and no alcohol whatsoever remains.

And God knows best
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rpwelton
06-03-2009, 07:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by crayon
This is what I know to be true as well.

But something I've wondered about- liquor in chocolates, for example. Is it enough to intoxicate you? Or cooking using wine, most of which evaporates in the cooking process; when you eat the final product, I'm pretty sure it doesn't intoxicate. These 2 examples are also forbidden, as far as I know. Why? Is it because the alcohol was added rather than a natural by product of however the things were made?
I think you should make a distinction between Chocolate Liquor and Chocolate Liqueur. The first is not alcohol, whereas the latter is.

Chocolate Liquor is a very common ingredient in chocolate products, and its name is very deceptive. It's basically just a smooth, liquid form of chocolate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chocolate_liquor
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crayon
06-03-2009, 07:50 PM
^Oops, I misspelled it, I meant liqueur.. Like, the kind found in "fancy" chocolates, lol.
edit- Okay, I googled and found this . So it's only if it says "chocolate liquor" does it not have alcohol, all other kinds do have it, right?

That's good to know that chocolate liquor has nothing to do with alcohol though, jazak Allah khair.
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