Muslim Children and Sex Education

[Iftikhar]

Muslim Children and Sex Education

Muslim parents teach their children to respect their teachers. From a very young age, we are taught that Islam teaches us that after our parents, our teachers are most deserving of respect.
It must be an extremely confusing time for the Muslim parent in Leytonstone, London. For up to 30 parents may face prosecution for withdrawing their children from school, disobeying the teachers in the school, simply to secure a decent moral upbringing for their children. The school had decided to have a week of lessons about lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender history. Part of this was a special adaptation of Shakespeare’s Romeo and Juliet retitled Romeo and Julian as well as fairytales and stories changed to show men falling in love with men. Rather than filling the heads of impressionable boys and girls with fatuous drivel about gay penguins, schools should be ashamed of the fact that they are sending children out into the world barely able to read, write and add up properly. Muslim children are leaving schools without learning their cultural roots and linguistic skills.

The action was being taken against the parents as part of a policy of ' promoting tolerance'. So why not tolerate parents, who, for sincerely-held reasons, consider their children too young to be taught about gay relationships? This isn't education, its cultural fascism. A record numbers of pupils persistently played truant in 2006-07, with around 272,950 pupils persistently absent in 2007, missing more than 20% of school. We rarely see councils prosecute the parents of these persistent truants. Yet, the parents who removed their children as a one-off to protect their morality may be prosecuted!

If the local council does decide to go through with a prosecution, it would be in line with the government's approach to the Muslim community. Muslims who believe homosexuality is a sin would be labelled as extremists. Liberal totalitarianism is a growing phenomenon in Britain and the west in general but many people will be shocked that the school can override a parent's view of what's appropriate or inappropriate to teach their children.

This latest episode should be a wakeup call for Muslim parents. Muslim parents MUST explain our moral standards to schools and be prepared to take steps to protect our children’s morals and values from a growing agenda to impose liberal values upon them. This is an eye opening for those Muslim parents who keep on sending their children to state schools to be mis-educated and de-educated by non-Muslim monolingual teachers.

The solution of all the problems facing Muslim children is state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers. Those state schools where Muslim children are in majority may be designated as Muslim community schools. Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods.
Iftikhar Ahmad

[Whatsthepoint]

Muslim Children and Sex Education

Muslim parents teach their children to respect their teachers. From a very young age, we are taught that Islam teaches us that after our parents, our teachers are most deserving of respect.
It must be an extremely confusing time for the Muslim parent in Leytonstone, London. For up to 30 parents may face prosecution for withdrawing their children from school, disobeying the teachers in the school, simply to secure a decent moral upbringing for their children. The school had decided to have a week of lessons about lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender history. Part of this was a special adaptation of Shakespeare’s Romeo and Juliet retitled Romeo and Julian as well as fairytales and stories changed to show men falling in love with men. Rather than filling the heads of impressionable boys and girls with fatuous drivel about gay penguins, schools should be ashamed of the fact that they are sending children out into the world barely able to read, write and add up properly. Muslim children are leaving schools without learning their cultural roots and linguistic skills.

The action was being taken against the parents as part of a policy of ' promoting tolerance'. So why not tolerate parents, who, for sincerely-held reasons, consider their children too young to be taught about gay relationships? This isn't education, its cultural fascism. A record numbers of pupils persistently played truant in 2006-07, with around 272,950 pupils persistently absent in 2007, missing more than 20% of school. We rarely see councils prosecute the parents of these persistent truants. Yet, the parents who removed their children as a one-off to protect their morality may be prosecuted!

If the local council does decide to go through with a prosecution, it would be in line with the government's approach to the Muslim community. Muslims who believe homosexuality is a sin would be labelled as extremists. Liberal totalitarianism is a growing phenomenon in Britain and the west in general but many people will be shocked that the school can override a parent's view of what's appropriate or inappropriate to teach their children.

This latest episode should be a wakeup call for Muslim parents. Muslim parents MUST explain our moral standards to schools and be prepared to take steps to protect our children’s morals and values from a growing agenda to impose liberal values upon them. This is an eye opening for those Muslim parents who keep on sending their children to state schools to be mis-educated and de-educated by non-Muslim monolingual teachers.

The solution of all the problems facing Muslim children is state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers. Those state schools where Muslim children are in majority may be designated as Muslim community schools. Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods.
Iftikhar Ahmad

You are not being consistent here. You support extreme multiculturalism, multicultural fascism if I may say and can't have your children watch a gay play.

[crayon]

You have a choice to see the play, and you have a choice not to. Multiculturalism (although I'm not sure if that's the correct term to be used, unless you think of homosexuality as having its own culture) doesn't mean you are forced into things, it gives you a choice. If there is a festival that celebrates Chinese culture, you have the choice to go to it, and the choice not to. But to ban that festival from happening is what's not acceptable.

[Clover]

Muslim Children and Sex Education

Muslim parents teach their children to respect their teachers. From a very young age, we are taught that Islam teaches us that after our parents, our teachers are most deserving of respect.
It must be an extremely confusing time for the Muslim parent in Leytonstone, London. For up to 30 parents may face prosecution for withdrawing their children from school, disobeying the teachers in the school, simply to secure a decent moral upbringing for their children. The school had decided to have a week of lessons about lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender history. Part of this was a special adaptation of Shakespeare’s Romeo and Juliet retitled Romeo and Julian as well as fairytales and stories changed to show men falling in love with men. Rather than filling the heads of impressionable boys and girls with fatuous drivel about gay penguins, schools should be ashamed of the fact that they are sending children out into the world barely able to read, write and add up properly. Muslim children are leaving schools without learning their cultural roots and linguistic skills.

The action was being taken against the parents as part of a policy of ' promoting tolerance'. So why not tolerate parents, who, for sincerely-held reasons, consider their children too young to be taught about gay relationships? This isn't education, its cultural fascism. A record numbers of pupils persistently played truant in 2006-07, with around 272,950 pupils persistently absent in 2007, missing more than 20% of school. We rarely see councils prosecute the parents of these persistent truants. Yet, the parents who removed their children as a one-off to protect their morality may be prosecuted!

If the local council does decide to go through with a prosecution, it would be in line with the government's approach to the Muslim community. Muslims who believe homosexuality is a sin would be labelled as extremists. Liberal totalitarianism is a growing phenomenon in Britain and the west in general but many people will be shocked that the school can override a parent's view of what's appropriate or inappropriate to teach their children.

This latest episode should be a wakeup call for Muslim parents. Muslim parents MUST explain our moral standards to schools and be prepared to take steps to protect our children’s morals and values from a growing agenda to impose liberal values upon them. This is an eye opening for those Muslim parents who keep on sending their children to state schools to be mis-educated and de-educated by non-Muslim monolingual teachers.

The solution of all the problems facing Muslim children is state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers. Those state schools where Muslim children are in majority may be designated as Muslim community schools. Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods.
Iftikhar Ahmad

No offense, but if its a Public school, then I am pretty sure parents haven't got much a say. My public school does what it wants, unless the State forces it to do something else. Parents can barely complain here, cause the PTO (Parent-Teacher Organization) can just dismiss the complaint in seconds.

If you don't want to see it, tell them it's against their religious views, and they are supposed to (unless it's different in the UK) not force them to do it.

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[crayon]

^The school can do whatever they want, these particular people are not trying to get the school to change anything. However, if they feel it is inappropriate material that their child is learning, then it should be well within their right to take their kids out of school for that day.

[GreyKode]

why not let them have a porn movie week, in japan its just culture.
I mean its part of the tolerance, you should accept the culture of japanese people too.
Let's not forget Romeo and Julian junior, the love story where a man gave up loving the woman and instead married her son.

[GreyKode]

No offense, but if its a Public school, then I am pretty sure parents haven't got much a say. My public school does what it wants, unless the State forces it to do something else. Parents can barely complain here, cause the PTO (Parent-Teacher Organization) can just dismiss the complaint in seconds.

If you don't want to see it, tell them it's against their religious views, and they are supposed to (unless it's different in the UK) not force them to do it.

What does taoism have to say about homosexuality?.

[Clover]

What does taoism have to say about homosexuality.

First, I'd like to know why you ask.

[Whatsthepoint]

why not let them have a porn movie week, in japan its just culture.
I mean its part of the tolerance, you should accept the culture of japanese people too.
Let's not forget Romeo and Julian junior, the love story where a man gave up loving the woman and instead married her son.

So where do we draw the line?
Do we let parens withdraw their children from religious tolerance week?
Do we let parens demand their children be put in a white-only class?

[crayon]

^The second is a moot point, those parents are asking for the school to change, these ones don't want the school to do anything at all.

[Clover]

No offense, but I think people need to get over it, and thats not mean to be rude, but if it comes across to you that way, sorry, but thats my opinoin.

I have to administer Black History Month, and I am white, and they focus on African-American studies, but wait, their's no Asian History Month, White History Month, Latino History Month (they do have that one thing, forgot how to spell it lol).

Personally, I see St. Patrick's as my day, cause I am part Irish (more then most, and I will fight anyone who dares to say I am a flat foot).

If you don't want them to see it, tell the school its your religion, and that be that. Then, if they say somethin like "get over it" when you've told them its religious, THEN you go after them.

[Caller الداعي]

assalam alaikum
i think that what the school is doing is not something that is going to benefit society in a good and moral way!!! (not wanting to going into a debate)
however what i just want to say is that muslims living in the west should not be suprised at this kind of news i mean a society which doesnt support good moral family values rather discourages any such idea but the most important point is that the society we r living in is based on philosophic theories which eventually lead man to break out of the chains of religious moral values and 'cuff' him to his desires which will never stop!!!
so what im trying to say is expect worse!!

[Whatsthepoint]

^The second is a moot point, those parents are asking for the school to change, these ones don't want the school to do anything at all.

They're not asking that they just want a safe environment their children, the school just needs to arrange classes to acomodate them.
On the other hand Iftikhar is asking for schools to change radically.

[crayon]

No offense, but I think people need to get over it, and thats not mean to be rude, but if it comes across to you that way, sorry, but thats my opinoin.

If you don't want them to see it, tell the school its your religion, and that be that. Then, if they say somethin like "get over it" when you've told them its religious, THEN you go after them.

No one is going after anyone- unless you mean the local council prosecuting the parents for their decision.

Read the article here.

They're not asking that they just want a safe environment their children, the school just needs to arrange classes to acomodate them.
On the other hand Iftikhar is asking for schools to change radically.

I'm discussing the parents taking their kids out of school, not what brother Iftikhar is saying.

[GreyKode]

First, I'd like to know why you ask.

So far, i can understand that part of your belief system, is courage and manhood, I respected your views about street fighting but in a sort of a disciplined sense, so I feel that this very much incompatible with homosexuality especially for men.

"Men bond together through fighting and rough activities."
Naruto

[Clover]

No one is going after anyone- unless you mean the local council prosecuting the parents for their decision.

Read the article here.

I guess it's different in the UK then it is here. Here, the parents could go to the director of schools, and if need be, go above him.

[Rabi'ya]

:sl:

The more I read stories like this the more I am inclined to home educate my child(or children if we decide to have any more) Society has forgotten its morals. And whilst perhaps this is a part of society(even if I'd rather it wasn't), there is no reason why such young children need to be subject to this information. Children under 10 cannot cook a meal for themselves, cannot complete household chores and understand the reality of life. Let alone the complicated issues surrounding love and marriage and sexual realtions. Why on earth should we expect them to even comprehend something as wild as this. Goodness me, I have issues understanding it most of the time, there is no way my child would be subject to such teachings.

Home education is coming to be a brilliant idea I think. If only people had more time to spend at home and use it wisely to educate their children in this way I feel (as Muslims) we would be able to bring a better ummah into being :)

[Rabi'ya]

Also it might be worth noting that Christian parents were involved in the same article too. Its not just Muslim parents :)

[ghengis]

parents should have a choice what kind of "nourishing knowledge" enters their childs brain to as much of an xtent as is humanly possible.

hey there was that new mmr multivaccine that will give your kids autism or extreme lethargy syndrome,

your kinds cant go to school soon unless they have had that vaccine. :)

on the news the other day...

so if u havent got a tv at home, avoid the radio cos the songs just fill your mind with sex and overemphasis on loving the female like she is a diety (music is a joke.... the messages in the music are so retareded... most women love r and b cos it idolizes them and they are involved in self glorification while they listen to it and smile when some blokes vocalizes his cravings for her lol)

its a joke. the whole culture at the moment is a joke.

no tv no radio, magazines with sex ads everywhere too...lol.

in the education system too. its like the education system are preparing them for the outside world.... not caring about a moral standpoint whatsoever.

society is getting corrupted largely and the government is just going with the flow by teaching corruption a lot early instead....lol

encouraging corruption???
hilarious.

[Clover]

So far, i can understand that part of your belief system, is courage and manhood, I respected your views about street fighting but in a sort of a disciplined sense, so I feel that this very much incompatible with homosexuality especially for men.

"Men bond together through fighting and rough activities."
Naruto

Ok, I figured you might be trying to bait me into a debate fight. Wanted to take a precaution, no offense. Well, the TTC (Tao Te Ching) so far that I have read (I have read the first 15 chapters, and skimmed through it 2-3 times to see if I see anything that catches the eye on certain subjects) and so far that I can tell, it could be considered wrong due to the TTC stating:

"Tao produces One,
One produces Two,
Two produces Three,
Myriad Things, backed by yin and embracing yang
Achive harmony by integrating their energy"

That could mean, Man+Woman=Harmony, but its all based on the individual's interpretation.

I am not for Gay Marriage, cause marriage, so far that I can remember, is a Christian idea, Gay Union, I guess, I think people should do what makes them happy, and what is right, to them. If that means, loving another man, then I guess do it, I am not going to condemn you, I would prefer my kid to be straight, cause of the fact, its rather queer (weird, but its funny that, that word can be substituted lol) to me.

[Rabi'ya]

Well Said Ghengis

I hve to say that whilst there have ben mentions of links with MMR and autism tis has not (as yet) been medically proved) However, It might be worth noting the increase in the cases of measles(alone) within in the UK. some stats 1 in 10 children who contact measles now die!! Thats quite shocking. Sorry I have no reference as such. I saw it on an public advert by the NHS whilst I was in London last month. If they feel there are links to MMR then why not administer the vaccines separately (yeh ok, this is a separate topic :D )

Im against TV. Whilst I have one in the house, we VERY rarely watch it. In fact I watch approx 1 hour of TV a week. Radio - thats out too. Im in agreement with what you say. Even the news is strikingly shocking. I was watching BBC last night and every time a reporter said one thing the main host was twisting it to create a new question.

Personally, Im not really a big fan of Single faith schools as I think we all have to live together and get on. We might as well share good morals and general understanding. Society is slowly destroying this and so many people are just allowing it to happen. Those who stand up(like the parents in the situation above) may be prosecuted.

What has the world come to when those who care about their childrens upbringing instead of just dumping them on the state, actually get prosecuted. Prosecuted for Caring!!! thats a new one on me!!!

[aadil77]

Its just ridiculous how you can teach 5 year olds about fags and trannies. This is the sort of crap that nurtures all these weird sexualities from a young age, then one day your kid will grow and tell you they think they're gay or lesbian or whatever. Schools over here were going to read children stories like 'the king and the king' about two gay kings having romance which is just disgusting to feed into a five year olds brain, but muslim parents managed to stop them from introducing them in the school, Which is good.

I bet soon someone from america will have their own homosexual friendly bible as well, I even read about some american homo that tried suing the author of the bible because it was cruel towards homosexuals!

[Clover]

Its just ridiculous how you can teach 5 year olds about fags and trannies. This is the sort of crap that nurtures all these weird sexualities from a young age, then one day your kid will grow and tell you they think they're gay or lesbian or whatever. Schools over here were going to read children stories like 'the king and the king' about two gay kings having romance which is just disgusting to feed into a five year olds brain, but muslim parents managed to stop them from introducing them in the school, Which is good.

I bet soon someone from america will have their own homosexual friendly bible as well, I even read about some american homo that tried suing the author of the bible because it was cruel towards homosexuals!

Poor show.

The authors of the bible are DEAD, they've been dead for, I believe over 1500 years, I think the last book was written somewhere like 500 something ad.

[aadil77]

Poor show.

The authors of the bible are DEAD, they've been dead for, I believe over 1500 years, I think the last book was written somewhere like 500 something ad.

Poor show? you refferring to me?

my bad he tried suing the publishers for $70 million

http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/...nst-the-bible/

[Clover]

Poor show? you refferring to me?

my bad he tried suing the publishers for $70 million

http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/...nst-the-bible/

Not you, your statement yes.

I didn't even know the bible had publishers to be honest lol, I always figured they just had manufacturing companies and editors, thanks for link.

[Hugo]

Poor show? you refferring to me?

my bad he tried suing the publishers for $70 million

http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/...nst-the-bible/

The first Bible books that we have copies of are probably dated at least 400BC and the last about 150Ad

[aadil77]

Not you, your statement yes.

I don't see why my statement is a 'Poor show' it was all based on facts, no?

I didn't even know the bible had publishers to be honest lol, I always figured they just had manufacturing companies and editors, thanks for link

Neither did I and it can't have been the only publisher out there, anyway I wonder how his lawsuit went, lol

[Clover]

The first Bible books that we have copies of are probably dated at least 400BC and the last about 150Ad

I think he figured that out after my statement friend.

[Clover]

I don't see why my statement is a 'Poor show' it was all based on facts, no?



Neither did I and it can't have been the only publisher out there, anyway I wonder how his lawsuit went, lol

You were rude. Calling people fags is no way to dis-approve of them, I do not care if people hate others to the core, their is no room for rude behaivor.

lol, I doubt it got anywhere, I read it, its pathetic, just a way for someone to get their '15 minutes of fame' and money. It's dis-honorable the way people are willing to sue for anything these days.

[aadil77]

You were rude. Calling people fags is no way to dis-approve of them, I do not care if people hate others to the core, their is no room for rude behaivor.

Thats true, thanks for pointing it out

[Whatsthepoint]

Its just ridiculous how you can teach 5 year olds about fags and trannies. This is the sort of crap that nurtures all these weird sexualities from a young age, then one day your kid will grow and tell you they think they're gay or lesbian or whatever. Schools over here were going to read children stories like 'the king and the king' about two gay kings having romance which is just disgusting to feed into a five year olds brain, but muslim parents managed to stop them from introducing them in the school, Which is good.

Schools are meant to prepare children for life, promote tolerance and social cohesion, hence there are pictures of minorities in children textbooks, kids are tought how people are different, lead different lifestyles etc, I see no reason why sexual minorities should be extempt from that.

[Wyatt]

Promoting ignorance on an important, worldly issue like homosexuality is promoting intolerance and hatred as Muslims are taught to "stay away" from that stuff.

I would encourage Muslim parents to let their kids see it, so that the children are open-minded. You can't just ignore homosexuality and pretend like it will go away. If Muslims grow up like a lot of Christians in America, there will just be constant gay-bashing in the name of God/Allah.

Keeping such an intolerance not only leads to violence against gays or lesbians, but increases the suicide rate. There has been a trend in America of children hanging themselves because they were teased at school for just acting feminine. What if a Muslim child were gay, but too insecure to reveal it to his or her parents? That kind of thing leads children away from their religion and possibly against it.

It's always possible that one's child might be gay or even bisexual, so keeping a tense household against that stuff really hinders a child's ability to grow up with any self-esteem.

And- this brings up a curious question. If one is a gay Muslim, are they not allowed to meet alone with the same gender rather than the opposite? (And does this apply to everything like that?)

lol..... of course all people cant act like that.

an ideology has certain systems of belief. whether people choose to believe and practice them is up to them....

weatern so called ideology is thus.

"do as thou wilt"
"if it feels good do it"
"live for the moment"
"survival of the fittest"
"if it dont make money it dont make sense"
"men are all *******s" (just thought i'd throw it all in :) )
" love is everything"

...the above are all lies....

god is everything.... they just took the original quote, spun it, and fed it back to the people....

love is not everything.
emotional worship is another delusion.

lol....

there are also a few good ones.... but the above are from media, scientists, and genuine "leaders of the western society" and these are thought processes that are pushed and encouraged.

the common man does not come out with these.... they just adopt them.

Have you even been to a western country? How do you know how to paint such a horrible stereotype just by watching the media? You're doing the exact same thing westerners do when they see that people in the east "hate women, rape women, stone sinners, live in sand huts, blow children and mentally retarded people up, etc."

I am so disgusted by this comment of yours, I can't even believe you are a Muslim.

[Muezzin]

Removed off-topic generalisations.

If members must generalise it would be better if they were on-topic.

[GreyKode]

Promoting ignorance on an important, worldly issue like homosexuality is promoting intolerance and hatred as Muslims are taught to "stay away" from that stuff.

I would encourage Muslim parents to let their kids see it, so that the children are open-minded. You can't just ignore homosexuality and pretend like it will go away. If Muslims grow up like a lot of Christians in America, there will just be constant gay-bashing in the name of God/Allah.

Keeping such an intolerance not only leads to violence against gays or lesbians, but increases the suicide rate. There has been a trend in America of children hanging themselves because they were teased at school for just acting feminine. What if a Muslim child were gay, but too insecure to reveal it to his or her parents? That kind of thing leads children away from their religion and possibly against it.

It's always possible that one's child might be gay or even bisexual, so keeping a tense household against that stuff really hinders a child's ability to grow up with any self-esteem.

And- this brings up a curious question. If one is a gay Muslim, are they not allowed to meet alone with the same gender rather than the opposite? (And does this apply to everything like that?)



Have you even been to a western country? How do you know how to paint such a horrible stereotype just by watching the media? You're doing the exact same thing westerners do when they see that people in the east "hate women, rape women, stone sinners, live in sand huts, blow children and mentally retarded people up, etc."

I am so disgusted by this comment of yours, I can't even believe you are a Muslim.

Promoting ignorance on an important, worldly issue like homosexuality is promoting intolerance and hatred as Muslims are taught to "stay away" from that stuff.

worldly issues????
well what makes one from keeping his children away from porn, drugs, etc.

I would encourage Muslim parents to let their kids see it, so that the children are open-minded. You can't just ignore homosexuality and pretend like it will go away. If Muslims grow up like a lot of Christians in America, there will just be constant gay-bashing in the name of God/Allah.

By now you should have understood that to a muslim obeying ALLAH(swt) comes before everything else, just because it will hurt some one's feeling doesn't mean we should disobey ALLAH, we stand for what is right even if it is against ourselves.
I agree with christians on what they are doing, you are the one who is misrepresenting them, they simply want to protect their children and their community from all the gay parade crap, they are not evil gay-bashing, homo-phobic nuts, no sir, they are only doing their duty to God and that is to be respected.


what is man love?
Well, the Prophet muhammad(pbuh) and the sahaba loved each other, they cared for each others well being, they smiled in the faces of each other, they would die for the sake of each other in battle.
This is the kind of man love that should be promoted, not a man ****ing and kissing another man, and then say its love, this is a perverted satisfaction of sexuality, just like mating with animals etc.

[ghengis]

there is a hadith from the prophet (SWS)
"lower your gaze"
look away from sinfulness.....

protect your children
not let them "SEE" it lol.... podorak thats a joke. u dont understand islam.
u protect them from it. therefore u veil there eyes as much as u can and hopefuly they will learn to avoid sin themselves.

your open mindedness comment = put poison and honey in the childs mind and let the child pick what it wants..... very irresponsible.

typical western ideology lol..... standard.

if a kid turns out gay he isnt muslim.
if a guy drinks alcohol he has gone against islam.
if a man fornicates before marriage he has gone against islam.

"faith is a bond of hearts not bloodties"


self esteem is not linked to tense households.
if you taught your child quran the topic of homosexuality would come up anyway. the western way of presenting it is flawed from an islamic opinion.


u cant be a muslim gay. it doesnt exist. its western disinformation.
if your gay you are not muslim. u have denounced your faith by your actions. and yes this includes other acts of major sin too.


i love u too... i am a westerner.

[aadil77]

Schools are meant to prepare children for life, promote tolerance and social cohesion, hence there are pictures of minorities in children textbooks, kids are tought how people are different, lead different lifestyles etc, I see no reason why sexual minorities should be extempt from that.

err well not at the age of 5, children can be so easily influenced at those young ages it can become a risk that they may shape up to become the same people they are taught about rather than naturally goin with the flow that is girls like boys and boys like girls.

If its taught at high school level to promote tolerence then thats better because that is the age level when they're gonna hit puberty and realise they may be 'born' gay (which they aren't), so thats the only relevent time to learn about it to prevent intolerence between them. Otherwise we shouldn't be in this situation where its promoted as acceptable and 'perfectly normal' at a young age and then your kids end up growing up as gays or whatever.

[Wyatt]

worldly issues????
well what makes one from keeping his children away from porn, drugs, etc.

Yes, a worldly issue. Being homosexual is not a crime, nor is it a choice. Especially if one is not religious, and so the only thing the religious can do is tolerate it.

Is Allah not most-forgiving and most-merciful even when one is born homosexual? They are not allowed to be Muslims? Does Allah not love them? Does the Qur'an not say Allah forms the child in the womb as he pleases? Of course, the only defence against this is that "it is a choice to be homosexual," which has no backing to it because the ones saying that have absolutely no experience with it- why? because they are clueless, staying away from it at all costs.

I do think gay parades are annoying and too revealing and sexual though. :exhausted But, of course, I don't have a God, so I have no concept of modesty, right? +o(

[جوري]

Yes, a worldly issue. Being homosexual is not a crime, nor is it a choice. Especially if one is not religious, and so the only thing the religious can do is tolerate it.

Is Allah not most-forgiving and most-merciful even when one is born homosexual? They are not allowed to be Muslims? Does Allah not love them? Does the Qur'an not say Allah forms the child in the womb as he pleases? Of course, the only defence against this is that "it is a choice to be homosexual," which has no backing to it because the ones saying that have absolutely no experience with it- why? because they are clueless, staying away from it at all costs.

I do think gay parades are annoying and too revealing and sexual though. :exhausted But, of course, I don't have a God, so I have no concept of modesty, right? +o(

Homosexuality is a psychological state not a biological one.. and even if they don't have a choice in whom they fall in love with, they certainly have a choice in whom they bed.. certainly sodomy is an abomination in the eyes of God and so mentioned in all religion, and it certainly is a state that defies the laws of nature if one is to forgo of religion all together for what usefulness can there be for such a state? ...

we are meant for a refined spiritual and an upright family unit type of a state of being. We are not meant for mere carnality!

[Iftikhar]

Salaam

In Islamic education] the teacher was not only a mu’allim, a ‘transmitter of knowledge’, but also a murabbi, a ‘trainer of souls and personalities’…The Islamic educational system never divorced the training of the mind from the soul and the whole being of the person. It never considered the transmission of knowledge or its possession to be legitimate without the possession of appropriate moral and spiritual qualities.

[aadil77]

Yes, a worldly issue. Being homosexual is not a crime, nor is it a choice. Especially if one is not religious, and so the only thing the religious can do is tolerate it.

Is Allah not most-forgiving and most-merciful even when one is born homosexual? They are not allowed to be Muslims? Does Allah not love them? Does the Qur'an not say Allah forms the child in the womb as he pleases? Of course, the only defence against this is that "it is a choice to be homosexual," which has no backing to it because the ones saying that have absolutely no experience with it- why? because they are clueless, staying away from it at all costs.

I do think gay parades are annoying and too revealing and sexual though. :exhausted But, of course, I don't have a God, so I have no concept of modesty, right? +o(

No one said they aren't allowed to be muslim or any of the other stuff you mentioned and its not a choice according to you.

Anyway lets not turn this into a thread about islams stance on homos

you can look to this site about gay muslims who know its a sin to practise it and islam stance on it from scholars

http://gaymuslims.wordpress.com/

about modesty

Well you certainly don't have a set of guidelines to whats modest and what is not, so if you're in need of some just look to the ones set in islam

[Amadeus85]

I hope that in my country in future they wont teach my children that two men or two women can make a family. IF they do, I would tell them in home that it's a lie and not to believe in such things promoted in schools. Personally I see homo and lesbian promotion in primary schools to a small kids as one of the most disgusting things.

[Wyatt]

There's no stopping the rise in tolerance and defence by western governments in support of homosexuality.

Psychological states are biological. Anything psychological happens in the brain which depends on the different chemicals and neurons.

There are gay families out there, so why would you say it is a lie? You would be lying to your children.

[Whatsthepoint]

err well not at the age of 5, children can be so easily influenced at those young ages it can become a risk that they may shape up to become the same people they are taught about rather than naturally goin with the flow that is girls like boys and boys like girls.

If its taught at high school level to promote tolerence then thats better because that is the age level when they're gonna hit puberty and realise they may be 'born' gay (which they aren't), so thats the only relevent time to learn about it to prevent intolerence between them. Otherwise we shouldn't be in this situation where its promoted as acceptable and 'perfectly normal' at a young age and then your kids end up growing up as gays or whatever.

There is really no proof that teaching children of any age about homosexuality will turn them gay, it may, as of yet there is no conclusive prove as to what actually causes homosexuality and whether it is biological, or a choice or whatever.
But the fact is that gays and lesbians are a reality in the western society and a certain degree of tolerance needs to be promoted in schools. 5-year-olds are taught that every culture is equal and things like that or they see pictures of interracial families and nobody is complaing.

[Amadeus85]

There's no stopping the rise in tolerance and defence by western governments in support of homosexuality.


There are gay families out there, so why would you say it is a lie? You would be lying to your children.

Well these kind of families exist out there, the Evil exists out there. The gays have propaganda, movie and music stars behind them (Hollywood!), money, media support and they think that they can impose Lie into the minds of the people. But at the end people as always will see their mistake, because homosexualism will bring only bad fruits.

[Whatsthepoint]

Well these kind of families exist out there, the Evil exists out there. The gays have propaganda, movie and music stars behind them (Hollywood!), money, media support and they think that they can impose Lie into the minds of the people. But at the end people as always will see their mistake, because homosexualism will bring only bad fruits.

Of course it will, but the same as it is impossible to expel exsting muslim citizens of europe to prevent islamization it is also impossible to expel gays.

[alcurad]

but then, are all cultures/ways of life equal?

isn't force-in all it's shapes the only way there was, is and always be? I mean when it coms to almost anything about religion and culture, it's inherited, the only way you stop that is by force, although it might not appear to be coercion, and it isn't directly so, still pressure from certain groups which at times have more power than they 'should have' is indeed a factor, if not the main factor.

this isn't about what's right or wrong, since there never will be agreement, lack of data is always going to be an excuse, and so would be the need to respect other religions and culture.

however, these two positions are opposites, something has to give, I'd say the Muslims should start countering whatever they don't like by more effective methods,,

[Whatsthepoint]

but then, are all cultures/ways of life equal?

Accroding to libies, yep. And they run everything, schools, multicultural funs etc.

[Wyatt]

but then, are all cultures/ways of life equal?

Not according to your religion.

[Which seems like the USA, knowing what is best for other societies, trying to impose their beliefs because they know they are correct- which is memetic, and destructive. Hugely destructive.]

[Amadeus85]

Of course it will, but the same as it is impossible to expel exsting muslim citizens of europe to prevent islamization it is also impossible to expel gays.

Why expell gay citizens? I had a friend who was gay in a college. They are often nice and average people. But the family should be treated only as a relationship between one man and one women, just like it is since the start of our civilization.

[Whatsthepoint]

Why expell gay citizens? I had a friend who was gay in a college. They are often nice and average people. But the family should be treated only as a relationship between one man and one women, just like it is since the start of our civilization.

Do you support homosexual unions alternative to marriage?

[Amadeus85]

Do you support homosexual unions alternative to marriage?

Thats a good question. Nowadays we have concubinate relationships (not sure how to write it) , not only marriages, so in democracy it could be possible to give same sex couples similar privelages. But as I said in other posts, democracy must allow same sex marriages, because this is a consequence of this system. But in an ideal political system, based on catholic teachings, even homo unions would be impossible. They could do what they want in private rooms, but no law would legalize it.

[جوري]

There's no stopping the rise in tolerance and defence by western governments in support of homosexuality.

Psychological states are biological. Anything psychological happens in the brain which depends on the different chemicals and neurons.

There are gay families out there, so why would you say it is a lie? You would be lying to your children.

No, not all psychological states are biological.. there are many idiopathic causes of brain mental disorders that have positively nothing to do with any genetics or a biochemical pathway.

A gay family, isn't something that is achieved by normal 'Natural' means, and certainly not acknowledged religiously.
So I fail to see how that would translate into a lie to children? You fail to recognize the difference between tolerance and allowance of this particular life style.

I can tolerate gays, I don't accept nor condone what they do as natural or religiously acceptable, it is an act of sexual deviance such as other acts of sexual deviance, 30 years out of the DSM-II and barely 30 from having been a legal crime (in the west) doesn't a normal act make it.. It just shows you what heavy lobbying plus incessant mass indoctrination can do. No more no less.

all the best

[alcurad]

podarock, how much do you know of my religion? just a question,,

but yes, and I'm saying no ideology is pure and clean in the sense that it doesn't call people to itself, and force them to cohere to it, in some way or other after wards, so this is a moot point, the stronger win, they control, then fall and it repeats, hasn;t much to do with forcing your opinion on ohters, everyone else does it too, in varying degrees, but it's still done.

there are timeless/absolute?-rules to history, as a society 'ages', as it becomes weaker and ready to be gobbled up by the 'barbarians at the gates', it accepts homosexuality/carnality in general more and more, homosexuality thus is not nesseciated but is a symptom of weakness, of a civilization/society that is.
this is why I at least think it's bad for the West in general to teach the young ones about it at an early age
I mean they imprint very easily, although 'deviance' from the usual maae/female pairing is easily dealt with if there isn't much pressure to the contrary, yet the West creates even more pressure, more coercion to conform to a somewhat defective sexual state, by defective I eman one that doesn't produce children, nor further the values of the traditional family, be it extended or nuclear.
note, I don't say defective as an insult.

it's hard to accept certain things, but 'truth' is not anyone's, not yet any way. the longer that is acknowledged, the better. case in point: the Western way is just one of many, neither true, nor absolute.

[جوري]

Do you support homosexual unions alternative to marriage?

I'd like to comment on that though I know the question isn't directed to me...
I don't see the difference between a gay marriage or a union so long as the state is secular. They are indeed in a secular society practicing hedonistic laws, I don't see how it would matter whether they put a ring on each other's fingers or not...

Problem when you practice secularism is you are not quite sure how to define a baseline.

all the best

[GreyKode]

I'd like to comment on that though I know the question isn't directed to me...
I don't see the difference between a gay marriage or a union so long as the state is secular. They are indeed in a secular society practicing hedonistic laws, I don't see how it would matter whether they put a ring on each other's fingers or not...

Problem when you practice secularism is you are not quite sure how to define a baseline.

all the best

I think it matters to them when they (* sigh *) adopt children. I've heard someone explaining this story about a lesbian couple, who broke up and one of them ran with their adopted kid, so the other couldn't legally do anything to get the kid back.

Plain stupid, if you ask me.

[Wyatt]

I think it matters to them when they (* sigh *) adopt children. I've heard someone explaining this story about a lesbian couple, who broke up and one of them ran with their adopted kid, so the other couldn't legally do anything to get the kid back.

Plain stupid, if you ask me.

Like that doesn't happen with straight couples.

[GreyKode]

Like that doesn't happen with straight couples.

Personally, i think giving children away by adoption to gay couples is a violation of the children's basic human rights.

[ghengis]

waaaaat????

u guys are crazy!!!

quran is the word of god... or have u all forgotten??

sodomy is a sin.

cheating on your husband/wife is a sin

sexual immorality is not islamic....

anything that preaches sexual immorality in any way shape or form has to be limited in the life of a muslim person.

so lets protect the kids.... and lets protect ourselves.

drink pure water and pure water only.... dont even look at filthy water.... (thats my moral-immoral metaphore) hope its understandable ;)

[ghengis]

gay marriages...?? i dont comment on.... not worth wasting time thinking about...

whats the point if being gay is not allowed??

dont get lead into these crazy discussions....

in talking about gay marriage u "presuppose" that being gay is acceptable.

nip the sins in the bud.

u will find the unbelievers love contemplating sin....

" if i cheat on my wife on saturday it's ok cos wifey plays bingo on saturday... what do ya reckon jack"

these sinners are pandering for attention.....

remember the worst sin, even worse than homosexuality

is rejecting god, and committing partners to god.

remember that....

....lol

[alcurad]

no see, 'leading' a homosexual life style as long as it's not forced onto people's attention is 'fine' as far as laws go, you can't do anything about it under any system if you don't know it's happening, a Muslim society or a non Muslim one-defined by what general stands for laws there- would-and do-overlap there, but when it comes to adopting and children etc it's a different mater altogether.
this is getting somewhat offtopic though,,

[GreyKode]

I agree with genghis, every time this disgusting topic pops up, it takes further and further into useless discussions trying to prove that its wrong.

[ghengis]

dude.... pure islam. please.

i know islamic states dont really exist. but the law of the so called land is made up from peoples heads. its fake. an illusion.

allahs law is supreme. if people challenge allahs law with man made law its shirk....

we live in non islamic countries.... we still need to apply islam ... and preach islam.

...as much as we can....

gay is not allowed in islam. end of.

dont shift from that position.

[aadil77]

actually yh I'm gettin annoyed seeing this thread title pop every now and then, so someone just close this thread, the discussion is over anyway

[ghengis]

i think we have people putting "these topics" in on purpose

.... disinformation.... distraction..... mischieviousness.

[Wyatt]

gay marriages...?? i dont comment on.... not worth wasting time thinking about...

whats the point if being gay is not allowed??

dont get lead into these crazy discussions....

in talking about gay marriage u "presuppose" that being gay is acceptable.

nip the sins in the bud.

u will find the unbelievers love contemplating sin....

" if i cheat on my wife on saturday it's ok cos wifey plays bingo on saturday... what do ya reckon jack"

these sinners are pandering for attention.....

remember the worst sin, even worse than homosexuality

is rejecting god, and committing partners to god.

remember that....

....lol

You assume that non-religious people will go by your laws just because you believe they are true. You cannot ask for that because you will not get it.

It's important to think about because of that.

And, GreyKode, how is that violating their rights? It's allowing them a loving family rather than living in a foster home or orphanage, but of course, according to religious people, the faggots and queers are going to convert all their children to be homosexual which is totally not cool with their god.

But, because the homosexual couple is not Islamic, why should they adhere to the Islamic laws? Religion is only inclusive of the followers, however convincing another religious person of this is seemingly impossible.

You can't convert a kid in sexuality. I talked with someone who hated themselves all their childhood because their God said they couldn't be gay. He tried to be straight so much, he just ended up giving up God in general. And the child consents to being adopted, by the way.

I like how ghengis says he won't comment on it because it's not worth the time, then he keeps writing posts about it.

[ghengis]

i love u podorok.....

u spot the good stuff ;)

[ghengis]

....what do ya reckon jack????

[Clover]

@Podorak: Actually, I seen a interesting article on Gay being biologically natural, and here is that article:

Giraffes

Male giraffes have been observed to engage in remarkably high frequencies of homosexual behavior. After aggressive "necking", it is common for two males giraffes to caress and court each other, leading up to mounting and climax. Such interactions between males have been found to be more frequent than heterosexual coupling. In one study, up to 94% of observed mounting incidents took place between two males. The proportion of same sex activities varied between 30 and 75%, and at any given time one in twenty males were engaged in non-combative necking behaviour with another male. Only 1% of same-sex mounting incidents occurred between females.

[ghengis]

biologically natural for unbelievers in god. u go ahead big boy, i think u might enjoy it :)

muslims: "muslims we are not believers in this made up to sound good theory of evolution, humans are made divinely, adam was made and lived in paradise before he was ejected to earth, allah has said homosexuality is forbidden, fornication outside the bonds of marriage is forbidden, alcohol is forbidden, allah has prescibed on us worship of him and him alone, so worship allah o mumin. worship allah alone, and beware of being decieved. do not let satan decieve you, do not let life decieve you and do not let the unbelievers decieve you. nurture your bond with allah o believer, and nurture your bond with the quran, be vigilant, be steadfast, and be aware, be very aware, beacuse allahs promise is true. be patient. and worship...."

[Güven]

Sorry for being awfully late.

this thread turned into something messy wich means...


Thread Closed