poisoning islam

[ghengis]

dont let poisonous beliefs penetrate your mind or roll off of your tongue.

we all say these things.... they are poisonous. anti-islamic, and subtly destroy the religion in your heart.... purify yourselves....

add em on.......... lets clean ourselves up.

survival of the fittest
--- created by darwin, the one who thinks we evolved from apes. if u here any muslim saying this please inform him he has uttered a monstrosity against islam.
. competing in the ummah is not allowed either. the only competing is for good deeds. hadith says "

" want for your brother better than u want for your self"... the complete opposite of this teaching is the scientist darwins modern attitude of "survival of the fittest"

evolution is not how humans were created according to islam. protect yourself o muslims.

[ghengis]

modern western taught teaches and spreads the ideology and belief.

"men are from mars and women are from venus", created in 90's by 2 self help authors. a very popular book in the west.

analyse the statement.... it is sowing discord between man and wife, we know that the angels sent down black magic and learnt how to sow discord between man and wife.

so if u see or hear anyone sowing discord between man and wife please inform them they have done a monstrous thing. a grave thing. an abominable thing.

in islam it is " a man is a womans garment and a woman is a mans garment"
we need each other. we are not from different world.... no
we naturally and intrinsically need and understand each other.

destroy these falsities that we hear muslims speak on a regular basis please... correct them

[Rabi'ya]

:sl:

What a fantastic reminder. It is certainly important to humble ourselves in any situation and we should always strive to do the best we can with the resources and knowledge we possess.

[ghengis]

when u live in the west u are swimming in filthy water... so be aware.

be aware what u let into your mind... consciously and subconsciously.

overtly and covertly

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[Hugo]

dont let poisonous beliefs penetrate your mind or roll off of your tongue. we all say these things.... they are poisonous. anti-islamic, and subtly destroy the religion in your heart.... purify yourselves....

add em on.......... lets clean ourselves up.

survival of the fittest
--- created by darwin, the one who thinks we evolved from apes. if u here any muslim saying this please inform him he has uttered a monstrosity against islam.
. competing in the ummah is not allowed either. the only competing is for good deeds. hadith says "

" want for your brother better than u want for your self"... the complete opposite of this teaching is the scientist darwins modern attitude of "survival of the fittest"

evolution is not how humans were created according to islam. protect yourself o muslims.

We all have to guard our faith but we cannot do that by ignoring everything can we? Its fine for you to not believe in evolution but let's here you evidence. Whether you like it or not there is a huge body of evidence for evolution and you cannot with honesty dismiss it

[Hugo]

modern western taught teaches and spreads the ideology and belief.

"men are from mars and women are from venus", created in 90's by 2 self help authors. a very popular book in the west.

analyse the statement.... it is sowing discord between man and wife, we know that the angels sent down black magic and learnt how to sow discord between man and wife. so if u see or hear anyone sowing discord between man and wife please inform them they have done a monstrous thing. a grave thing. an abominable thing.

in islam it is " a man is a womans garment and a woman is a mans garment"
we need each other. we are not from different world.... no we naturally and intrinsically need and understand each other. destroy these falsities that we hear muslims speak on a regular basis please... correct them

So according to you all western thought is contained in one book by John Gray which deals with the differences between men and woman - hardly credible is it?

[Hugo]

when u live in the west u are swimming in filthy water... so be aware. be aware what u let into your mind... consciously and subconsciously. overtly and covertly

Please explain where we can swim in clean, sparkling water: Iran, Sudan, .. where?

Does nothing good come from the West? Where was penicillin invented, or lasers, or x-ray machines or a whole host of things. Give us a list of what other than the West has produced?

If you close your mind as you seem to advocate then you condemn yourself to being backward forever. Marie Curie once said "there is nothing to be feared, only understood".

[ghengis]

:) lol....

protect yourselves my muslims from rhetoric that drives us from our faiths.

donot fall for the snares of shaitan....

they think we are backwards...... :)

[ghengis]

fashion in the west vs stability of quran

in the west

things change, things go out of and into fashion, in this day and age we dont do that, the kids these days arent how we used to be, its the new generation.... blah blah...

a deep mainstream belief is for culture to change, and morph, so children dont see eye to with there parents.

dont say these things muslims. because in islam. there is no degredation with respect to time.

quran is the law of god, from the beginning till the end. it will not change, or shift.

so when u here muslims talking about this day and age, and it is not needed these days, and things have changed, understand that they have uttered a falsehood.

islam doesnt change, the word of god doesnt change. we have the firmest handhold.

everything around islam changes... and some muslims get caught up in the "poisonous new beliefs"

no change with respect to time........ allahs law is permenant. be on the lookout for muslims who roll these things off of there tongue, and remind them of the truth.

be aware.

[جوري]

We all have to guard our faith but we cannot do that by ignoring everything can we? Its fine for you to not believe in evolution but let's here you evidence. Whether you like it or not there is a huge body of evidence for evolution and you cannot with honesty dismiss it

There is a huge body for everything, Judaism, Hinduism, alien encounters. It doesn't mean much does it? in the beginning you've to start with a belief, an apriori judgment, and such is the case with any unproven theory!

I doubt if anyone offered you molecular biology of evolution in details that you'd bother read it given that I have posted numerous articles on the matter.. here is one again, if truly you have interest, how about you start your refutation on this level?

1
Probabilities of randomly assembling a primitive cell on Earth

Dermott J. Mullan, mullan@bartol.udel.edu

Moderator's comment: This article is too long to paste in a post

http://www.iscid.org/papers/Mullan_P...ell_112302.pdf

You enjoy quotes I can tell, but they are not a substitute for doing your homework:

Aphorisms are essentially an aristocratic genre of writing. The aphorist does not argue or explain, he asserts; and implicit in his assertion is a conviction that he is wiser and more intelligent than his readers. --Auden

all the best

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Hugo;

Whether you like it or not there is a huge body of evidence for evolution and you cannot with honesty dismiss it

Like ghengis, I am not a big fan of the theory of evolution, I feel many people try and use the theory to prove God does not exist.

In the spirit of searching for God,

Eric

[Snowflake]

From what I've learnt, the ape-to-man theory of evolution was designed by Zionists to promote disbelief in God/religion. As all major religions (which btw, are perceived as a threat by satan-worshipping zionists) teach that God created man, the aim was to destroy man's belief in God by 'refuting' religious teachings and nullifying his belief in religion to make him susceptible to mind-control. Darwin's theory or conjecture, as I like to put it, will always, only remain just that.

Hugo: Please explain where we can swim in clean, sparkling water: Iran, Sudan, .. where?

The brother meant it in a metaphorical sense. To which, I still do disagree to an extent in the way that it is not only in the west that we have to protect ourselves but wherever we maybe. satellite TV has reached every corner of the worlds and with the the evils of irreligious societies being projected across muslims lands. Even there, we are just as vulnerable as we are anywhere in the world. I think instead the saying the 'West' which should seek an alternative which only describes a specific group.

Does nothing good come from the West? Where was penicillin invented, or lasers, or x-ray machines or a whole host of things. Give us a list of what other than the West has produced?

Yes! The west has given us some great revert muslim brothers and sisters. :D

The other so-called good things you mention were only invented to deal with forever increasing diseases as the result of the decline in preventative/holistic medicine. The use of antibiotics has had an adverse effect of natural immunity with more and more people suffering from common-colds and infections. X-ray machines carry risks and not to mention deaths by 'doctor-caused' diseases. So no, there's nothing great to celebrate about that.




(No offence to doctors on board. By doctor-caused diseases, I'm talking about drugs which lead to drug-related disease and death.)

[Hugo]

:) lol....protect yourselves my muslims from rhetoric that drives us from our faiths.

donot fall for the snares of shaitan....

they think we are backwards...... :)

Fine, but please answer the questions I asked, let us hear a positive response from you if you have it instead of stiring up irrational hatred and suspicion. No one said you were backward, only that if you close your mind with unfounded suspicion and hate you condemn yourself to be becoming backward

[Hugo]

There is a huge body for everything, Judaism, Hinduism, alien encounters. It doesn't mean much does it? in the beginning you've to start with a belief, an apriori judgment, and such is the case with any unproven theory!

Hugo - why did you leave out Islam?

I doubt if anyone offered you molecular biology of evolution in details that you'd bother read it given that I have posted numerous articles on the matter.. here is one again, if truly you have interest, how about you start your refutation on this level?

http://www.iscid.org/papers/Mullan_P...ell_112302.pdf

As usual you cannot answer any question and instead offer a 20,000 word essay and so bring the discussion to a halt.

It is always possibles to assign probabilities to events and that might be useful but it's not proof of anything. I assume because you used this long essay dealing with that idea that you agree that evolution is at least a possibility.

I am open minded about it personally and to me it has no effect whatever on my faith and I cannot see that either the Bible or the Qu'ran dismisses it unless you take the impossible route that everything written in either book must be taken absolutely literally. The scriptures were never intended to be science text books and what we have to use them for is hearing what God is saying to us then and now.

[Hugo]

From what I've learnt, the ape-to-man theory of evolution was designed by Zionists to promote disbelief in God/religion. As all major religions (which btw, are perceived as a threat by satan-worshipping zionists) teach that God created man, the aim was to destroy man's belief in God by 'refuting' religious teachings and nullifying his belief in religion to make him susceptible to mind-control. Darwin's theory or conjecture, as I like to put it, will always, only remain just that.

Hugo - can you tell us where you got this bit about "designed by Zionists" from? It sounds as if it's come from that pernicious forgery called "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion". Darwin was not a Jew as far as I know and and every biologist could hardly be either. The aim was about science and nothing else as far as Darwin was concerned and he perfectly understood the limitations of his work as you will find if you read it. The fact that you take it to be about religion and mind control is your affair but millions do not take it like that and go on in their faith and good works.

The brother meant it in a metaphorical sense. To which, I still do disagree to an extent in the way that it is not only in the west that we have to protect ourselves but wherever we maybe. satellite TV has reached every corner of the worlds and with the the evils of irreligious societies being projected across muslims lands. Even there, we are just as vulnerable as we are anywhere in the world. I think instead the saying the 'West' which should seek an alternative which only describes a specific group.

Hugo - here I think we can agree, we are inclined to sin wherever we are. But TV and communications can be channels of good as well as bad and it is by our righteous living that society changes not by law.

The other so-called good things you mention were only invented to deal with forever increasing diseases as the result of the decline in preventative/holistic medicine. The use of antibiotics has had an adverse effect of natural immunity with more and more people suffering from common-colds and infections. X-ray machines carry risks and not to mention deaths by 'doctor-caused' diseases. So no, there's nothing great to celebrate about that.

Hugo - not sure what you are saying here, you would rather we had none of these, you would rather we did not have vaccines to prevent Measles or Small Pox eradication - nothing to celebrate, I have to ask is this really how you feel, is it a rational response or is it prejudice. If these things had been invented in an Islamic country would you say just the same?

[Clover]

when u live in the west u are swimming in filthy water... so be aware.

be aware what u let into your mind... consciously and subconsciously.

overtly and covertly

Wow...So all us Westerners are filthy? You are a very insulting person, everywhere I see you, insult after insult.

Islam can stay 'pure' in the West, as long as it doesn't break a rule of the West, and I don't think their is anything in Islam that does, although I might be mistaken.

[aamirsaab]

when u live in the west u are swimming in filthy water... so be aware.

Oh come on, that is not fair; you can't go around making such sweeping generalisations and then expect people to take you seriously.


There are positives to living in the west; just as there are negatives.

[ghengis]

lol hahaha

1. "as a muslim if you are living in a non muslim environment you are "swimming in filthy water"

it is a metaphor for those who understands metaphors.... dont take it personally o sweet ones. ;)

one drop of black ink in pure water will corrupt the whole water, diffusion.

so when islamic people walk amongst and live in non believing societies then they need to be aware the society they live in will be inconducible to their perspective of islamic purity, and the opposite in this metaphor of purity is filthiness.

so the metaphor again. which is directed to muslims that read my posts. i am not changing my opinions beacause a few people dont like it.

"when you are living in a non islamic society/environment, external stimuli will enter your mind through your sensations which will degrade the purity of your islam, so reject this, and maintain your regimes of purifying your hearts and souls and delve deeper into islam, regardless of your external environment."

"when you are living in the west it is like you are swimming in filthy water, so be aware of this, fellow muslims"

sorry if it offends.

[ghengis]

there are many positives of living in the west yes.

but i am warning what to be aware of in this thread not what we can look up to. u should start that thread somewher else if you want to. or get podorok the collest guy on this forum to do it.

lol

or hugo.. he seems very cool. ;)

[Rabi'ya]

:sl:

You use the West in your metaphor as a non-Muslim environment which has many things to distract us from our deen. But can you please tell me somewhere (presumably not in the West) where there are no distractions from deen?

[ghengis]

certainty vs closemindedness.

they will call you backward, old fashioned, not moving with the times.... and from there perspective they are right.

we donot want to move with there times, nor do want to surf their cultural waves.
we are muslim, quran is permenant, doesnt change. environment changes around us but not our practice of islam.

our culture does not change.

from an islamic perspective when they say we are backward, they are implying we dont follow them, and we dont want to.

dont let what they say effect your islam.

a metaphore:

build your house on shifting sands??? or build it on firm foundations that dont change...

[ghengis]

there are many distractions everywhere, i am from the west so my comments are based on that... sorry.

islam in its purity has been fading for ages due to people shifting their beliefs and positions to fit in with the rest of the world.

distractions in other part of the world.... treat all beliefs and attitudes that are not conducive to your islamic growth as "filthy water" dont drink it. we know better as muslims.

[Rabi'ya]

:sl:

Your posts are indeed interesting and worth pondering, but can you please enter into some kind of discussion. There is no use in repeating things until u are blue in the face if people dont understand what you are trying to say. PErhaps a more in depth explaination and discussion ??

[ghengis]

close mindedness vs certainty

they say you/we are close minded..... from their perspective we are infact close minded because we dont divulge in the theory of evolution, or dont like genetic engineering etc...

from our perspective they are close minded also, because they dont accept islam to be the true word of god.

[Rabi'ya]

:sl:

tru tru, but we also have to give them the right to their own thoughts and ideas. Even if they clash with ours. Until Allah guides anyone they will not see. So its useless us putting people down and making statements which appear to people as derogatory because this further alienates then from Islam. If we are kind and gentle in our approach they may wish to learn more about Islam and as a result Allah may guide them.

May Allah guide us all :( Ameen

[ghengis]

certainty as mistook for close mindedness.

i will talk from experience: i was an unbelieving westerner once (the so called days of fun :) )

i was open minded, so i read the torah, the bible, the hindu scriptures and the buddhist ones, i also read the quran (sorry...i kinda skipped taoism)

so my open mindedness lead to my increasing in knowledge, and then the certainty of the quran set in, and my certainty grew.

when someone becomes certain about something... 100% belief and faith. certainty, they may be viewed as close minded, but the open minded stage of spiritual revolution has occurred and serves no real spiritual purpose anymore.

(broad generalization... i hope u understand)

so i am not, we muslims are not close minded. no, u have uttered a falsehood.
we are just so sososososo so certain.

so certain..... that i dont even need to use any new information for my salvation. it is uneeded.

all you need is the quran. u dont need to read anything else. no science if u dont want, no, irrelevent.

we are certain.

[Rabi'ya]

:sl:

I too am a revert and seems like i went through a similar experience to u. I was dying to find out the truth and read many scriptures like urself. I spent all my time in bookshops and libraries trying to discover where life was suposed to be taking me. Alhamdulillah after many years I found Islam.

But not all humans have this longing....or even if they do perhaps other things get in the way. I take my family for example. MY own mother consistently denies Islam and whilst she does not argue with me she constantly throws points up and ridicules certain things. Still I try (TRY) to be patient with her as I pray every day that Allah will soften her heart just at the time when I am trying to tell her something important about Islam.

Close minded, from our perspective but we have a duty to be calm and caring and kind until such time(if ever) they are brought to Islam. and even if they are not, well then that does not give us the right to be rude.

I hope you understand where I'm coming from...

Quraan is fine if you do not want to go further. But the Prophet(saw) left us many examples which we also need to adhere to and follow. human nature is to prove things. and alhamdulillah science does that - and not going against the Quraan, Science is only science when it is something which proves Gods existence or His creation :)

[ghengis]

seen vs the seen and the unseen

the west (okay not the west, i aint hating...most countries these days.... west is my umbrella term for unbelieving attitudes.... sorry, i'll change that, thanks rabbiya for pointing that out..)

external vision, the seen, the measurable. the basis of science and technology, the "western worlds religion"

this is only half of life

in the quran it says "those who believe in the seen and the unseen.... are true believers"

science, or external vision can not alone give us salvation.

as muslims we believe in the unseen. that can never be measured by scientific equipment.


we believe in allah, god, one, monotheism.
prophets of old
angels and jinns exist
judgement day is a 100% certainty
heavan and hell are truths

none of this can be measured by science...

so remember the external and the internal are needed
the seen and the unseen need to be considered
scientific experiements and spiritual internal insight all need to be considered.

the "west...(soryy :) ) are biased to external experimental knowledge only.

they only use one arm, lobsided, incomplete......

please see through my generalizations...

understand these things.

[Clover]

Ghenghis, I think your spamming, cause you've made 3 posts saying the same thing, over and over, thats spamming sir.

I do not care if your from the West, that doesn't mean you should throw insults at it left and right. You insult more then any person I've seen, nearly every post you has, has some sort of insult, it's very annoying and I wish you'd stop. You've read all of them? Did you take notes, and actually discuss them with people that follow them?

Why don't you have on Way of Life Islam, and whether your a Brother or Sister?

[Rabi'ya]

one cannot generalise in such circumstances. IT gives rise to misunderstanding between people and upset and hurt too

[ghengis]

i am giving dawah to muslims in my threads , not non muslims....

therefore it may sound harsh....

this is the level of dawah giving that i feel most comfortable at.

don not grieve yourself over there unbelief.

improve your own religion. purify yourself and lead by example.

that is the best dawah.

i don not mean to be derogatory.

but just as you need to learn the alphabet before you learn spelling, they may need to believe in god and have a basic understanding in islam before they understand my posts.


not hating. i love all people. but i have seen flaws in my muslim peers and myself. and most of these flaws come from accepting false doctrines that arise out of islam and rolling them off of your tongue as the truth because u lack the necassary knowledge.

i just want to point out a few "trip up areas" in belief and attitude, that will occur on the path of spiritual progression....


discussion soon..... i just need to get it out right now ;O

[Rabi'ya]

:sl:

whilst i appreciate what youre trying to do I really think it is not the best way to do it. Why not participate in the many threads and discussions we have here and why not try to start some specific threads to alert people to things which u feel we have weaknesses in.

[Clover]

i am giving dawah to muslims in my threads , not non muslims....

therefore it may sound harsh....

this is the level of dawah giving that i feel most comfortable at.

don not grieve yourself over there unbelief.

improve your own religion. purify yourself and lead by example.

that is the best dawah.

i don not mean to be derogatory.

but just as you need to learn the alphabet before you learn spelling, they may need to believe in god and have a basic understanding in islam before they understand my posts.


not hating. i love all people. but i have seen flaws in my muslim peers and myself. and most of these flaws come from accepting false doctrines that arise out of islam and rolling them off of your tongue as the truth because u lack the necassary knowledge.

i just want to point out a few "trip up areas" in belief and attitude, that will occur on the path of spiritual progression....


discussion soon..... i just need to get it out right now ;O

If you love all people, then stop insulting them. That's all I gotta say about that.

[ghengis]

i am glad clover u see the commonality in my threads....

people in my opinion need to be warned of these

most islamic people are subconsciously accepting these false doctrines and combining it with their islam, producing a hybrid islamic modernist movement thingimijig... lol

that is corruption. corruption of islam occuring covertly.

i am trying to make my people a little more aware.... because i made these mistakes...
i used to think i was a muslim, and still say things like "there can only be one champ, survival of the fittest etcetcetc "

the words i spoke contradicted my complete faith of islam..... and hindered my spiritual purification progress.... and caused much internal angst that i couldnt pinpoint for ages.

i had drunk the filthy water and was suffering the consequences of accepting non islamic doctrines into my islamic inner world.

may god forgive me and guide us all.

[ghengis]

just read.... there are some that understand me perfectly.

[ghengis]

pure islam metaphore

"imagine wearing one of those astronaut "fish bowl hats" outfits on.

now blank out you mind.... and imagine being a blank slate. take everything out of your mind.

now only put quran and islam in.... let it integrate inside of you. and take everything non islamic out

your world... your let in your mind what you want. so be vigilant what you let in.

if you want to improve your islam you have 2 methods.

1) get rid of the junk, the stuff you dont want
2)increase the amount of the stuff you want

[Clover]

just read.... there are some that understand me perfectly.

I understand that your worried about Islam, and it's people, thats fine by me, but insulting people, and cultures, that's not. Insults will get you no where, and I hope you learn that, cause the sooner you do, the more successful you will be.

[Rabi'ya]

perhaps you could alert people a little less publicly or perhaps create a general thread concerning the action/s which you feel are wrong.

[Clover]

perhaps you could alert people a little less publicly or perhaps create a general thread concerning the action/s which you feel are wrong.

You talking to me or Genghis?

[Rabi'ya]

lol well i was talking to ghengis but we can all do with a reminder of not bringin peoples faults into public view

[ghengis]

nope..... this is how it is.

and u know it.

more public the better.

this is called the islamic boarrd right???

[Clover]

lol well i was talking to ghengis but we can all do with a reminder of not bringin peoples faults into public view

When people insult others constantly in public, I do not see what is wrong about pointing it out in public.

[ghengis]

not personal faults...


lets just say these are faults i had.... and if other people had them or may come across them then it might help.

[ghengis]

talk freely people.... talk freely. my skin is very thick.

[جوري]

Hugo - why did you leave out Islam?

I write as pleases me, do you have a problem with that?

As usual you cannot answer any question and instead offer a 20,000 word essay and so bring the discussion to a halt.

You have no questions, you only have assertions.
I have covered the topic ad nauseam all you but to do is use the search feature!

It is always possibles to assign probabilities to events and that might be useful but it's not proof of anything. I assume because you used this long essay dealing with that idea that you agree that evolution is at least a possibility.

As possible as you taking on a few base pairs through some jumping gene or framshift mutation developing gargoyle wings and flying, Of course!

I am open minded about it personally and to me it has no effect whatever on my faith and I cannot see that either the Bible or the Qu'ran dismisses it unless you take the impossible route that everything written in either book must be taken absolutely literally. The scriptures were never intended to be science text books and what we have to use them for is hearing what God is saying to us then and now.

Correct, the Quran doesn't say anything about evolution and one of God's names 'al baree' means the evolver.. also confirmed by suret al'waqi3a.. I have problems with evolution from a scientific stand not a religious one.. However, I don't see the bible being in concert with any of it, given the dark ages and the history of the church.. I believe history is a perfect example with which religions is compatible with science and which isn't...


all the best

[Hugo]

Hugo - why did you leave out Islam?
As usual you cannot answer any question and instead offer a 20,000 word essay and so bring the discussion to a halt.

I write as pleases me, do you have a problem with that? You have no questions, you only have assertions.
You have no questions, you only have assertions.

Hugo - please see my question above, it does not look like an assertion. You listed many faiths but why leave out Islam? Of course you may write as you please but when it comes to baseless assertions about what others have written that is another matter and inserting a 20,000 words essay into a discussion board is hardly offering a salient and lucid response is it because you must know that no one is going to read it?

The Quran doesn't say anything about evolution and one of God's names 'al baree' means the evolver.. also confirmed by suret al'waqi3a.. I have problems with evolution from a scientific stand not a religious one.. However, I don't see the bible being in concert with any of it, given the dark ages and the history of the church.. I believe history is a perfect example with which religions is compatible with science and which isn't... all the best

The Bible is what it is. a revelation from God, anyone one can take it or leave it just as any one can take or leave what the Qu'ran has to say. I have no particular issues with evolution from a scientific (I am not a biologist) or religious point of view. What matters to me is how we work out our faith in everyday life and I cannot see that Evolution has much to say on that score so it's of no great concern to me. Nice to talk with you

[جوري]

Hugo - please see my question above, it does not look like an assertion. You listed many faith but why leave out Islam? Of course you may write as you please but when it comes to baseless assertions about what others have written that is another matter and inserting a 20,000 words essay into a discussion board is hardly offering a salient and lucid response is it?

I have seen your questions indeed, I see nothing save an assertion that evolution is correct because there are many sources backing it up. That is not a question nor is it a testimony to the truth. It is in fact exactly as I have deemed it an assertion, use the dictionary and define the terms for yourself if you are having difficulty otherwise?...

The research is very sound and lucid, anyone with minor common sense and basic understanding of biology not even on a molecular level and an ability to read, can understand the issues raised and that need a resolution when it comes to evolution.

Until such a time, you can present us in a like manner your unassailable thesis and able to defend and cover all your loop holes, can you come here with this type of bravado!

The Bible is what it is. a revelation from God, anyone one can take it or leave it just as any one can take or leave what the Qu'ran has to say. I have no particular issues with evolution from a scientific (I am not a biologist) or religious point of view. What matters to me is how we work out faith out in everyday life and I cannot see that Evolution has much to say on that score so it's of no great concern to me.

Nice to talk with you

If it is of no great concern to you, then why bring it up in a thread and only cower when major loopholes are elucidated? You know the saying, pls either put up or shut up.. But don't throw words around and then cringe at the thought of someone challenging you on it.

If you are interested in reading about islamic scholars and scientists then I am sure a simple google search would yield you millions of results..

all the best

[Clover]

Hugo, I'd also like to know why you left Islam, although, if you don't answer, I don't hold no ill will, I am just curious.

[جوري]

Hugo, I'd also like to know why you left Islam, although, if you don't answer, I don't hold no ill will, I am just curious.

He is speaking of why I left Islam out as an example not as a way of life..
simply I think you can get the message with two or three examples.. no point in protracting a metaphor and beating it to death!

May Allah swt make us steadfast on Iman, die with shahada on our lips and accept the best of our deeds and grant us paradise's high meed.. ameen

[Clover]

He is speaking of why I left Islam out as an example not as a way of life..
simply I think you can get the message with two or three examples.. no point in protracting a metaphor and beating it to death!

May Allah swt make us steadfast on Iman, die with shahada on our lips and accept the best of our deeds and grant us paradise's high meed.. ameen

I didn't know you left Islam?

I am really lost atm, but ok.

[جوري]

I didn't know you left Islam?

I am really lost atm, but ok.

what are you talking about? pls read every post on this thread..

peace

[Clover]

what are you talking about? pls read every post on this thread..

peace

Nevermind, I read your post wrong, I get it. I have read just about every post already, except for maybe 2-3 that weren't in the major discussions.

[Hugo]

[I] I have seen your questions indeed, I see nothing save an assertion that evolution is correct because there are many sources backing it up. That is not a question nor is it a testimony to the truth. It is in fact exactly as I have deemed it an assertion, use the dictionary and define the terms for yourself if you are having difficulty otherwise?...

Hugo - I cannot recall making any assertions about evolution, indeed I made it plain that I have an open mind about the matter.

The research is very sound and lucid, anyone with minor common sense and basic understanding of biology not even on a molecular level and an ability to read, can understand the issues raised and that need a resolution when it comes to evolution.

Hugo - I take this to mean that you are convinced by the arguments for evolution?

Until such a time, you can present us in a like manner your unassailable thesis and able to defend and cover all your loop holes, can you come here with this type of bravado!

Hugo - I have no unassailable thesis and I doubt any good scientist would say that they have. Indeed it the essence of science to remain sceptical and it's obvious that we have not come to the end of knowing new things so I fail to see what point you are making?

If it is of no great concern to you, then why bring it up in a thread and only cower when major loopholes are elucidated? You know the saying, pls either put up or shut up.. But don't throw words around and then cringe at the thought of someone challenging you on it.

Hugo - I said it was no great concern of mine as far as my faith is concerned. I made a post because to me it is unreasonable to simply say evolution is wrong and it is designed to destroy faith because I see no sign of Islam or Christianity or any other religion collapsing over the issue.

If you are interested in reading about islamic scholars and scientists then I am sure a simple google search would yield you millions of results.. all the best

Yes I am interested in reading any scholar or scientist and I am unable to understand what it might mean to be an Islamic scientist as if there is an Islamic Ohms law or Islamic penicillin. Let us have a list of say your top 5 Islamic scientists, what University they work at and then we can see what their international standing is, where they appear in Journals or citation indexes or books. Interestingly, an article appeared in New Scientist (I posted this in another thread some weeks ago) which perhaps gives a picture of the quality of science emerging let's say from the Islamic world and its not an encouraging one.

Reported in New Scientist 5th July 2008
Jim al-Khalili talks about the biography of the Pakistani physicist Abdus Salam who won the Nobel prize for Physics in 1979 for his work on unifying the 4 forces of nature. Salam's theory is regarded as one of the most beautiful ideas in physics but he did not stop there and created The Centre for Theoretical Physics in Trieste, Italy to support researchers from developing countries.

Salam stands as the greatest Islamic physicist for 1,000 years and not since the 11th century polymath Ibn al-Haytham has there been a more influential figure in the field. Salam was born in the Punjab in 1926 and was a devout Muslim all his life but in his homeland was hounded by obscurantists leading to his excommunication from Pakistan because he adhered to the relatively obscure Ahmadis sect.

Khalili states unequivocally that it is to Pakistan's eternal shame that its greatest scientist was not acknowledged because of narrow-minded intolerance toward his brand of religion and until such eminent men (or women) are given the respect they deserve there can be no true Islamic renaissance in science. One might note that Pakistan and Islam are not the only country and religion to act in such a poor fashion to its best contrymen and women.

Nevertheless, he worked tirelessly to promote science in the Islamic world and lobbied world leaders and the UN for funding to help science in developing countries. Not since Einstein has any one scientist been so influential on the world stage.

To read the full biography see: "Cosmic Anger: The First Muslim Nobel Scientist", by Gordon Fraser, Oxford University Press, ISBN 9780199208463

[جوري]

Hugo - I cannot recall making any assertions about evolution, indeed I made it plain that I have an open mind about the matter.

Then let's refresh your memory--You wrote:

We all have to guard our faith but we cannot do that by ignoring everything can we? Its fine for you to not believe in evolution but let's here you evidence. Whether you like it or not there is a huge body of evidence for evolution and you cannot with honesty dismiss it

and that is indeed what I commented on as well included a large scientific piece on the matter.. who are you kidding?

Hugo - I take this to mean that you are convinced by the arguments for evolution?

What is the argument of evolution? Don't throw open-ended discussion and allow for any sort of spontaneous response.. if you have specific points bring them to the table!

Hugo - I have no unassailable thesis and I doubt any good scientist would say that they have. Indeed it the essence of science to remain sceptical and it's obvious that we have not come to the end of knowing new things so I fail to see what point you are making?

The point I am making goes back to your first statement and I quote the latter point:

Whether you like it or not there is a huge body of evidence for evolution and you cannot with honesty dismiss it

we have offered you another body of evidence placing a number of holes in that large body!

Hugo - I said it was no great concern of mine as far as my faith is concerned. I made a post because to me it is unreasonable to simply say evolution is wrong and it is designed to destroy faith because I see no sign of Islam or Christianity or any other religion collapsing over the issue.

I don't think anyone said 'evolution is wrong because it destroys faith' folks have their reservations on why it is wrong and why some use it to denounce God, even if evolution were the correct order of events, you'd still have a large mystery on the origin of life!

Yes I am interested in reading any scholar or scientist and I am unable to understand what it might mean to be an Islamic scientist as if there is an Islamic Ohms law or Islamic penicillin. Let us have a list of say your top 5 Islamic scientists, what University they work at and then we can see what their international standing is, where they appear in Journals or citation indexes or books. Interestingly, an article appeared in New Scientist (I posted this in another thread some weeks ago) which perhaps gives a picture of the quality of science emerging let's say from the Islamic world and its not an encouraging one.

Here is a list of Islamic scholars/ scientists old and new

• 1 Astronomers and Astrophysicists
• 2 Chemists and Alchemists
• 3 Economists and Social Scientists
• 4 Geographers and Earth Scientists
• 5 Mathematicians
• 6 Biologists, Neuroscientists and Psychologists
• 7 Physicians and Surgeons
• 8 Physicists & Engineers
• 9 Political Scientists
• 10 Other scientists and inventors
• 11 References

[edit] Astronomers and Astrophysicists

Main article: List of Muslim astronomers
Further information: Islamic astronomy

• Khalid ibn Yazid (Calid)
• Jafar al-Sadiq
• Yaqūb ibn Tāriq
• Ibrahim al-Fazari
• Muhammad al-Fazari
• Naubakht
• Al-Khwarizmi, also a mathematician
• Ja'far ibn Muhammad Abu Ma'shar al-Balkhi (Albumasar)
• Al-Farghani
• Banū Mūsā (Ben Mousa)
  
  • Ja'far Muhammad ibn Mūsā ibn Shākir
  • Ahmad ibn Mūsā ibn Shākir
  • Al-Hasan ibn Mūsā ibn Shākir
  
  
• Thābit ibn Qurra (Thebit)
  
  • Sinan ibn Thabit
  • Ibrahim ibn Sinan
  
  
• Al-Majriti
• Muhammad ibn Jābir al-Harrānī al-Battānī (Albatenius)
• Al-Farabi (Abunaser)
• Abd Al-Rahman Al Sufi
• Abu Sa'id Gorgani
• Kushyar ibn Labban
• Abū Ja'far al-Khāzin
• Al-Mahani
• Al-Marwazi
• Al-Nayrizi
• Al-Saghani
• Al-Farghani
• Abu Nasr Mansur
• Abū Sahl al-Qūhī (Kuhi)
• Abu-Mahmud al-Khujandi
• Abū al-Wafā' al-Būzjānī
• Ibn Yunus
• Ibn al-Haytham (Alhacen)
• Abū Rayhān al-Bīrūnī
• Avicenna
• Abū Ishāq Ibrāhīm al-Zarqālī (Arzachel)
• Omar Khayyám
• Al-Khazini
• Ibn Bajjah (Avempace)
• Ibn Tufail (Abubacer)
• Nur Ed-Din Al Betrugi (Alpetragius)
• Averroes
• Al-Jazari
• Sharaf al-Dīn al-Tūsī
• Anvari
• Mo'ayyeduddin Urdi
• Nasir al-Din Tusi
• Qutb al-Din al-Shirazi
• Ibn al-Shatir
• Shams al-Dīn al-Samarqandī
• Jamshīd al-Kāshī
• Ulugh Beg, also a mathematician
• Taqi al-Din, Ottoman astronomer
• Ahmad Nahavandi
• Haly Abenragel
• Abolfadl Harawi
• Kerim Kerimov, a founder of Soviet space program, a lead architect behind first human spaceflight (Vostok 1), and the lead architect of the first space stations (Salyut and Mir)[1][2]
• Farouk El-Baz, a NASA scientist involved in the first Moon landings with the Apollo program[3]
• Abdul Kalam
• Sultan bin Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud
• Muhammed Faris
• Abdul Ahad Mohmand
• Talgat Musabayev
• Anousheh Ansari
• Amir Ansari
• Essam Heggy, a planetary scientist involved in the NASA Mars Exploration Program[4]
• Ahmed Salem
• Mohamed Sultan
• Shadia Habbal specialist in sun physics.
• Sultana Nurun Nahar specialist in atomic astrophysics and spectroscopy.
• Ahmed Noor[5]
• [removed due to inaccuracy/unverifiable fact]

[edit] Chemists and Alchemists

Further information: Alchemy (Islam)

• Khalid ibn Yazid (Calid)
• Jafar al-Sadiq
• Jabir Ibn Hayyan (Geber), father of chemistry[6][7][8]
• Abbas Ibn Firnas (Armen Firman)
• Al-Kindi (Alkindus)
• Al-Majriti
• Ibn Miskawayh
• Abū Rayhān al-Bīrūnī
• Avicenna
• Al-Khazini
• Nasir al-Din Tusi
• Hasan al-Rammah
• Ibn Khaldun
• Sake Dean Mahomet
• Salimuzzaman Siddiqui
• Al-Khwārizmī Father of Al-Gabra, (Mathematics)
• Ahmed H. Zewail, Nobel Prize in Chemistry, 1999[9]
• Ali Eftekhari

[edit] Economists and Social Scientists

Further information: Islamic sociology, Early Muslim sociology, and Islamic economics in the world
See also: List of Muslim historians and Historiography of early Islam

• Abu Hanifa an-Nu‘man (699-767), economist
• Abu Yusuf (731-798), economist
• Ishaq bin Ali al-Rahwi (854–931), economist
• Al-Farabi (Alpharabius) (873–950), economist
• Al-Saghani (d. 990), one of the earliest historians of science[10]
• Shams al-Mo'ali Abol-hasan Ghaboos ibn Wushmgir (Qabus) (d. 1012), economist
• Abū Rayhān al-Bīrūnī (973-1048), considered the "first anthropologist"[11] and father of Indology[12]
• Ibn Sina (Avicenna) (980–1037), economist
• Ibn Miskawayh (b. 1030), economist
• Al-Ghazali (Algazel) (1058–1111), economist
• Al-Mawardi (1075–1158), economist
• Nasīr al-Dīn al-Tūsī (Tusi) (1201-1274), economist
• Ibn al-Nafis (1213-1288), sociologist
• Ibn Taymiyyah (1263–1328), economist
• Ibn Khaldun (1332-1406), forerunner of social sciences[13] such as demography,[14] cultural history,[15] historiography,[16] philosophy of history,[17] sociology[14][17] and economics[18][19]
• Al-Maqrizi (1364-1442), economist
• Akhtar Hameed Khan, Pakistani social scientist; pioneer of microcredit
• Mahbub ul Haq, Pakistani economist; developer of Human Development Index and founder of Human Development Report[20][21]
• Muhammad Yunus, Bangladeshi economist; successful user of microcredit and microfinance[22][23]
• (Abdullahi Anshur Jimale)British Ctizen origin Somali,economist;successful user of Computer Accountance & Payroll

[edit] Geographers and Earth Scientists

Further information: Muslim Agricultural Revolution

• Al-Masudi, the "Herodotus of the Arabs", and pioneer of historical geography[24]
• Al-Kindi, pioneer of environmental science[25]
• Qusta ibn Luqa
• Ibn Al-Jazzar
• Al-Tamimi
• Al-Masihi
• Avicenna
• Ali ibn Ridwan
• Muhammad al-Idrisi, also a cartographer
• Ahmad ibn Fadlan
• Abū Rayhān al-Bīrūnī, father of geodesy,[11][14] considered the first geologist and "first anthropologist"[11]
• Avicenna
• Ibn Jumay
• Abd-el-latif
• Averroes
• Ibn al-Nafis
• Ibn al-Quff
• Ibn Battuta
• Ibn Khaldun
• Piri Reis
• Evliya Çelebi
• Zaghloul El-Naggar

Abdullahi Anshur Jimale

[edit] Mathematicians

Further information: Islamic mathematics: Biographies

• Al-Hajjāj ibn Yūsuf ibn Matar
• Khalid ibn Yazid (Calid)
• Muhammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī (Algorismi) - father of algebra[26] and algorithms[27]
• 'Abd al-Hamīd ibn Turk
• Abū al-Hasan ibn Alī al-Qalasādī (1412-1482), pioneer of symbolic algebra[28]
• Abū Kāmil Shujā ibn Aslam
• Al-Abbās ibn Said al-Jawharī
• Al-Kindi (Alkindus)
• Banū Mūsā (Ben Mousa)
  
  • Ja'far Muhammad ibn Mūsā ibn Shākir
  • Al-Hasan ibn Mūsā ibn Shākir
  
  
• Al-Mahani
• Ahmed ibn Yusuf
• Thābit ibn Qurra (Thebit)
  
  • Sinan ibn Thabit
  • Ibrahim ibn Sinan
  
  
• Al-Majriti
• Muhammad ibn Jābir al-Harrānī al-Battānī (Albatenius)
• Al-Farabi (Abunaser)
• Al-Khalili
• Al-Nayrizi
• Abū Ja'far al-Khāzin
• Brethren of Purity
• Abu'l-Hasan al-Uqlidisi
• Al-Saghani
• Abū Sahl al-Qūhī
• Abu-Mahmud al-Khujandi
• Abū al-Wafā' al-Būzjānī
• Ibn Sahl
• Al-Sijzi
• Ibn Yunus
• Abu Nasr Mansur
• Kushyar ibn Labban
• Al-Karaji
• Ibn al-Haytham (Alhacen/Alhazen)
• Abū Rayhān al-Bīrūnī
• Ibn Tahir al-Baghdadi
• Al-Nasawi
• Al-Jayyani
• Abū Ishāq Ibrāhīm al-Zarqālī (Arzachel)
• Al-Mu'taman ibn Hud
• Omar Khayyám
• Al-Khazini
• Ibn Bajjah (Avempace)
• Al-Ghazali (Algazel)
• Al-Marrakushi
• Al-Samawal
• Averroes
• Avicenna
• Hunayn ibn Ishaq
• Ibn al-Banna'
• Ibn al-Shatir
• Ja'far ibn Muhammad Abu Ma'shar al-Balkhi (Albumasar)
• Jamshīd al-Kāshī
• Kamāl al-Dīn al-Fārisī
• Muḥyi al-Dīn al-Maghribī
• Maryam Mirzakhani
• Mo'ayyeduddin Urdi
• Muhammad Baqir Yazdi
• Nasir al-Din al-Tusi, 13th century Persian mathematician and philosopher
• Qāḍī Zāda al-Rūmī
• Qutb al-Din al-Shirazi
• Shams al-Dīn al-Samarqandī
• Sharaf al-Dīn al-Tūsī
• Taqi al-Din
• Ulugh Beg

• Lotfi Asker Zadeh, Iranian computer scientist; founder of Fuzzy Mathematics and fuzzy set theory[29][30]
• Cumrun Vafa
• Jeffrey Lang Professor at the University of Kansas converted to Islam from atheism

[edit] Biologists, Neuroscientists and Psychologists

Further information: Islamic psychological thought

• Ibn Sirin (654–728), author of work on dreams and dream interpretation[31]
• Al-Kindi (Alkindus), pioneer of psychotherapy and music therapy[32]
• Ali ibn Sahl Rabban al-Tabari, pioneer of psychiatry, clinical psychiatry and clinical psychology[33]
• Ahmed ibn Sahl al-Balkhi, pioneer of mental health,[34] medical psychology, cognitive psychology, cognitive therapy, psychophysiology and psychosomatic medicine[35]
• Najab ud-din Muhammad, pioneer of mental disorder classification[36]
• Al-Farabi (Alpharabius), pioneer of social psychology and consciousness studies[37]
• Ali ibn Abbas al-Majusi (Haly Abbas), pioneer of neuroanatomy, neurobiology and neurophysiology[37]
• Abu al-Qasim al-Zahrawi (Abulcasis), pioneer of neurosurgery[38]
• Ibn al-Haytham (Alhazen), founder of experimental psychology, psychophysics, phenomenology and visual perception[39]
• Abū Rayhān al-Bīrūnī, pioneer of reaction time[40]
• Avicenna (Ibn Sina), pioneer of physiological psychology,[36] neuropsychiatry,[41] thought experiment, self-awareness and self-consciousness[42]
• Ibn Zuhr (Avenzoar), pioneer of neurology and neuropharmacology[38]
• Averroes, pioneer of Parkinson's disease[38]
• Ibn Tufail, pioneer of tabula rasa and nature versus nurture[43]
• Teepu Siddique, neurologist and pioneer in neurogenetics and ALS.
• Pardis Sabeti

[edit] Physicians and Surgeons

Main article: Muslim doctors
Further information: Islamic medicine

• Khalid ibn Yazid (Calid)
• Jafar al-Sadiq
• Shapur ibn Sahl (d. 869), pioneer of pharmacy and pharmacopoeia[44]
• Al-Kindi (Alkindus) (801-873), pioneer of pharmacology[45]
• Abbas Ibn Firnas (Armen Firman) (810-887)
• Al-Jahiz, pioneer of natural selection
• Ali ibn Sahl Rabban al-Tabari, pioneer of medical encyclopedia[33]
• Ahmed ibn Sahl al-Balkhi
• Ishaq bin Ali al-Rahwi (854–931), pioneer of peer review and medical peer review[46]
• Al-Farabi (Alpharabius)
• Abul Hasan al-Tabari - physician
• Ali ibn Sahl Rabban al-Tabari - physician
• Ibn Al-Jazzar
• Ali ibn Abbas al-Majusi (d. 994), pioneer of obstetrics and perinatology[47]
• Abu Gaafar Amed ibn Ibrahim ibn abi Halid al-Gazzar (10th century), pioneer of dental restoration[48]
• Abu al-Qasim al-Zahrawi (Abulcasis) - father of modern surgery, and pioneer of neurosurgery,[38] craniotomy,[47] hematology[49] and dental surgery[50]
• Ibn al-Haytham (Alhacen), pioneer of eye surgery, visual system[51] and visual perception[52]
• Abū Rayhān al-Bīrūnī
• Avicenna (Ibn Sina) (980-1037) - father of modern medicine,[53] founder of Unani medicine,[49] pioneer of experimental medicine, evidence-based medicine, pharmaceutical sciences, clinical pharmacology,[54] aromatherapy,[55] pulsology and sphygmology,[56] and also a philosopher
• Ibn Miskawayh
• Ibn Zuhr (Avenzoar) - father of experimental surgery,[57] and pioneer of experimental anatomy, experimental physiology, human dissection, autopsy[58] and tracheotomy[59]
• Ibn Bajjah (Avempace)
• Ibn Tufail (Abubacer)
• Averroes
• Ibn al-Baitar
• Ibn Jazla
• Nasir al-Din Tusi
• Ibn al-Nafis (1213-1288), father of circulatory physiology, pioneer of circulatory anatomy,[60] and founder of Nafisian anatomy, physiology,[61] pulsology and sphygmology[62]
• Ibn al-Quff (1233-1305), pioneer of modern embryology[47]
• Kamāl al-Dīn al-Fārisī
• Ibn Khatima (14th century), pioneer of bacteriology and microbiology[63]
• Ibn al-Khatib (1313-1374)
• Mansur ibn Ilyas
• Saghir Akhtar - pharmacist
• Toffy Musivand
• Samuel Rahbar
• Muhammad B. Yunus, the "father of our modern view of fibromyalgia"[64]
• Sheikh Muszaphar Shukor, pioneer of biomedical research in space[65][66]
• Hulusi Behçet, known for the discovery of Behçet's disease
• Ibrahim B. Syed - radiologist
• Mehmet Öz, cardiothoracic surgeon

[edit] Physicists & Engineers

Further information: Islamic physics

• Jafar al-Sadiq, 8th century
• Banū Mūsā (Ben Mousa), 9th century
  
  • Ja'far Muhammad ibn Mūsā ibn Shākir
  • Ahmad ibn Mūsā ibn Shākir
  • Al-Hasan ibn Mūsā ibn Shākir
  
  
• Abbas Ibn Firnas (Armen Firman), 9th century
• Thābit ibn Qurra (Thebit), 9th century
• Al-Saghani, 10th century
• Abū Sahl al-Qūhī (Kuhi), 10th century
• Ibn Sahl, 10th century
• Ibn Yunus, 10th century
• Al-Karaji, 10th century
• Ibn al-Haytham (Alhacen), 11th century Iraqi scientist, father of optics,[67] pioneer of scientific method[68] and experimental physics,[69] considered the "first scientist"[70]
• Abū Rayhān al-Bīrūnī, 11th century, pioneer of experimental mechanics[71]
• Avicenna, 11th century
• Al-Khazini, 12th century
• Ibn Bajjah (Avempace), 12th century
• Hibat Allah Abu'l-Barakat al-Baghdaadi (Nathanel), 12th century
• Averroes, 12th century Andalusian mathematician, philosopher and medical expert
• Al-Jazari, 13th century civil engineer, father of robotics,[8] father of modern engineering[72]
• Nasir al-Din Tusi, 13th century
• Qutb al-Din al-Shirazi, 13th century
• Kamāl al-Dīn al-Fārisī, 13th century
• Hasan al-Rammah, 13th century
• Ibn al-Shatir, 14th century
• Taqi al-Din, 16th century
• Hezarfen Ahmet Celebi, 17th century
• Lagari Hasan Çelebi, 17th century
• Sake Dean Mahomet, 18th century
• Tipu Sultan, 18th century Indian mechanician
• Fazlur Khan, 20th century Bangladeshi mechanician
• Mahmoud Hessaby, 20th century Iranian physicist
• Ali Javan, 20th century Iranian physicist
• Bacharuddin Jusuf Habibie, 20th century Indonesian aerospace engineer and president
• Abdul Kalam, Indian aeronautical engineer and nuclear scientist
• Mehran Kardar, Iranian theoretical physicist
• Cumrun Vafa, Iranian mathematical physicist
• Nima Arkani-Hamed, American-born Iranian physicist
• Abdel Nasser Tawfik, Egyptian-born German Particle Physisist
• Munir Nayfeh
• Abdus Salam, Pakistani theoretical physicist - Nobel Prize in Physics 1979
• Riazuddin, Pakistani theoretical physicist
• Abdul Qadeer Khan, Pakistani nuclear scientist
• Munir Ahmad Khan, Pakistani nuclear engineer
• Pervez Hoodbhoy, Pakistani nuclear physicist

[edit] Political Scientists

• Syed Qutb
• Abul Ala Maududi
• Hasan al-Turabi
• Hassan al-Banna
• Mohamed Hassanein Heikal
• Shoaib ur Rehman Mughal

[edit] Other scientists and inventors

• Azizul Haque
• Prof Dr Mohammad Sharif Chattar
• Professor Dr. Rauf Yasin Jalali

[edit] References

1. ^ Peter Bond, Obituary: Lt-Gen Kerim Kerimov, The Independent, 7 April 2003.
2. ^ Betty Blair (1995), "Behind Soviet Aeronauts", Azerbaijan International 3 (3).
3. ^ Farouk El-Baz: With Apollo to the Moon, IslamOnline interview
4. ^ Essam Heggy: Into the Heart of Mars, IslamOnline interview
5. ^ Short bio [1]
6. ^ John Warren (2005). "War and the Cultural Heritage of Iraq: a sadly mismanaged affair", Third World Quarterly, Volume 26, Issue 4 & 5, p. 815-830.
7. ^ Dr. A. Zahoor (1997). JABIR IBN HAIYAN (Geber). University of Indonesia.
8. ^ a b Paul Vallely. How Islamic inventors changed the world, The Independent
9. ^ All Nobel Laureates in Chemistry, Nobel Prize
10. ^ Franz Rosenthal (1950). "Al-Asturlabi and as-Samaw'al on Scientific Progress", Osiris 9, p. 555-564 [559].
11. ^ a b c Akbar S. Ahmed (1984). "Al-Beruni: The First Anthropologist", RAIN 60, p. 9-10.
12. ^ Zafarul-Islam Khan, At The Threshold Of A New Millennium – II, The Milli Gazette.
13. ^ Akbar Ahmed (2002). "Ibn Khaldun’s Understanding of Civilizations and the Dilemmas of Islam and the West Today", Middle East Journal 56 (1), p. 25.
14. ^ a b c H. Mowlana (2001). "Information in the Arab World", Cooperation South Journal 1.
15. ^ Mohamad Abdalla (Summer 2007). "Ibn Khaldun on the Fate of Islamic Science after the 11th Century", Islam & Science 5 (1), p. 61-70.
16. ^ Salahuddin Ahmed (1999). A Dictionary of Muslim Names. C. Hurst & Co. Publishers. ISBN 1850653569.
17. ^ a b Dr. S. W. Akhtar (1997). "The Islamic Concept of Knowledge", Al-Tawhid: A Quarterly Journal of Islamic Thought & Culture 12 (3).
18. ^ I. M. Oweiss (1988), "Ibn Khaldun, the Father of Economics", Arab Civilization: Challenges and Responses, New York University Press, ISBN 0887066984.
19. ^ Jean David C. Boulakia (1971), "Ibn Khaldun: A Fourteenth-Century Economist", The Journal of Political Economy 79 (5): 1105-1118.
20. ^ Mahbub ul Haq (1995), Reflections on Human Development, Oxford University Press, ISBN 0195101936.
21. ^ Amartya Sen (2000), "A Decade of Human Development", Journal of Human Development 1 (1): 17-23.
22. ^ Paula A. Monopoli, "The Global Advancement Of Women: Barriers And Best PracticesForeword", University of Maryland's Law Journal on Race, Religion, Gender and Class 6 (273): 273-280.
23. ^ Expanding Microcredit in India: A Great Opportunity for Poverty Alleviation, Grameen Dialogue.
24. ^ [http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9051339 Mas'udi, al-." Encyclopædia Britannica, 2006.
25. ^ L. Gari (2002), "Arabic Treatises on Environmental Pollution up to the End of the Thirteenth Century", Environment and History 8 (4), pp. 475-488.
26. ^ Solomon Gandz (1936), "The sources of al-Khwarizmi's algebra", Osiris I, p. 263–277."
27. ^ Serish Nanisetti, Father of algorithms and algebra, The Hindu, June 23, 2006.
28. ^ O'Connor, John J.; Robertson, Edmund F., "Abu'l Hasan ibn Ali al Qalasadi", MacTutor History of Mathematics archive
29. ^ Zadeh, L.A. (1965) "Fuzzy sets", Information and Control, 8, 338-353.
30. ^ Professor Lotfi A. Zadeh, University of California, Berkeley
31. ^ Amber Haque (2004), "Psychology from Islamic Perspective: Contributions of Early Muslim Scholars and Challenges to Contemporary Muslim Psychologists", Journal of Religion and Health 43 (4): 357-377 [375].
32. ^ Saoud, R. "The Arab Contribution to the Music of the Western World" (PDF). http://www.muslimheritage.com/uploads/Music2.pdf. Retrieved on 2007-01-12.
33. ^ a b Amber Haque (2004), "Psychology from Islamic Perspective: Contributions of Early Muslim Scholars and Challenges to Contemporary Muslim Psychologists", Journal of Religion and Health 43 (4): 357-377 [361]
34. ^ Nurdeen Deuraseh and Mansor Abu Talib (2005), "Mental health in Islamic medical tradition", The International Medical Journal 4 (2), p. 76-79.
35. ^ Amber Haque (2004), "Psychology from Islamic Perspective: Contributions of Early Muslim Scholars and Challenges to Contemporary Muslim Psychologists", Journal of Religion and Health 43 (4): 357-377 [362]
36. ^ a b Ibrahim B. Syed PhD, "Islamic Medicine: 1000 years ahead of its times", Journal of the Islamic Medical Association, 2002 (2), p. 2-9 [7].
37. ^ a b Amber Haque (2004), "Psychology from Islamic Perspective: Contributions of Early Muslim Scholars and Challenges to Contemporary Muslim Psychologists", Journal of Religion and Health 43 (4): 357-377 [363].
38. ^ a b c d Martin-Araguz, A.; Bustamante-Martinez, C.; Fernandez-Armayor, Ajo V.; Moreno-Martinez, J. M. (2002). "Neuroscience in al-Andalus and its influence on medieval scholastic medicine", Revista de neurología 34 (9), p. 877-892.
39. ^ Omar Khaleefa (Summer 1999). "Who Is the Founder of Psychophysics and Experimental Psychology?", American Journal of Islamic Social Sciences 16 (2).
40. ^ Muhammad Iqbal, The Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam, "The Spirit of Muslim Culture"
41. ^ S Safavi-Abbasi, LBC Brasiliense, RK Workman (2007), "The fate of medical knowledge and the neurosciences during the time of Genghis Khan and the Mongolian Empire", Neurosurgical Focus 23 (1), E13, p. 3.
42. ^ Nasr, Seyyed Hossein; Oliver Leaman (1996). History of Islamic Philosophy. Routledge. pp. 315 & 1022–1023. ISBN 0415131596.
43. ^ G. A. Russell (1994), The 'Arabick' Interest of the Natural Philosophers in Seventeenth-Century England, pp. 224-262, Brill Publishers, ISBN 9004094598.
44. ^ Levey M. (1973), Early Arabic Pharmacology, E. J. Brill, Leiden.
45. ^ Felix Klein-Frank (2001), Al-Kindi, in Oliver Leaman and Hossein Nasr, History of Islamic Philosophy, p. 172. Routledge, London.
46. ^ Ray Spier (2002), "The history of the peer-review process", Trends in Biotechnology 20 (8), p. 357-358 [357].
47. ^ a b c Ezzat Abouleish, "Contributions Of Islam To Medicine", in Shahid Athar (1993), Islamic Perspectives in Medicine, Edinburgh University Press, Edinburgh.
48. ^ Salma Almahdi (2003), "Muslim Scholar Contribution in Restorative Dentistry", Journal of the International Society for the History of Islamic Medicine 2, pp. 56-57.
49. ^ a b Patricia Skinner (2001), Unani-tibbi, Encyclopedia of Alternative Medicine
50. ^ Henry W. Noble, PhD (2002), Tooth transplantation: a controversial story, History of Dentistry Research Group, Scottish Society for the History of Medicine.
51. ^ Bashar Saad, Hassan Azaizeh, Omar Said (October 2005). "Tradition and Perspectives of Arab Herbal Medicine: A Review", Evidence-based Complementary and Alternative Medicine 2 (4), p. 475-479 [476]. Oxford University Press.
52. ^ Bradley Steffens (2006). Ibn al-Haytham: First Scientist, Chapter 5. Morgan Reynolds Publishing. ISBN 1599350246.
53. ^ Cas Lek Cesk (1980). "The father of medicine, Avicenna, in our science and culture: Abu Ali ibn Sina (980-1037)", Becka J. 119 (1), p. 17-23.
54. ^ David W. Tschanz, MSPH, PhD (August 2003). "Arab Roots of European Medicine", Heart Views 4 (2).
55. ^ Marlene Ericksen (2000). Healing with Aromatherapy, p. 9. McGraw-Hill Professional. ISBN 0658003828.
56. ^ Rachel Hajar (1999), "The Greco-Islamic Pulse", Heart Views 1 (4), pp. 136-140 [138-140].
57. ^ Rabie E. Abdel-Halim (2006), "Contributions of Muhadhdhab Al-Deen Al-Baghdadi to the progress of medicine and urology", Saudi Medical Journal 27 (11): 1631-1641.
58. ^ Islamic medicine, Hutchinson Encyclopedia.
59. ^ A. I. Makki. "Needles & Pins", AlShindagah 68, January-February 2006.
60. ^ Chairman's Reflections (2004), "Traditional Medicine Among Gulf Arabs, Part II: Blood-letting", Heart Views 5 (2), p. 74-85 [80].
61. ^ Nahyan A. G. Fancy (2006), "Pulmonary Transit and Bodily Resurrection: The Interaction of Medicine, Philosophy and Religion in the Works of Ibn al-Nafīs (died 1288)", pp. 3 & 6, Electronic Theses and Dissertations, University of Notre Dame.[2]
62. ^ Nahyan A. G. Fancy (2006), "Pulmonary Transit and Bodily Resurrection: The Interaction of Medicine, Philosophy and Religion in the Works of Ibn al-Nafīs (died 1288)", pp. 224-228, Electronic Theses and Dissertations, University of Notre Dame.[3]
63. ^ Ibrahim B. Syed, Ph.D. (2002). "Islamic Medicine: 1000 years ahead of its times", Journal of the Islamic Medical Association 2, p. 2-9.
64. ^ John B. Winfield (2007), "Fibromyalgia and Related Central Sensitivity Syndromes: Twenty-five Years of Progress", Seminars in Arthritis and Rheumatism 36 (6): 335-338.
65. ^ theStar (2007). "Tapping into space research" (in English). TheStar. http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp...133&sec=nation. Retrieved on September 22 2007.
66. ^ theStar (2007). "Mission in space" (in English). http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp...025&sec=nation. Retrieved on October 13 2007.
67. ^ Dr. Mahmoud Al Deek. "Ibn Al-Haitham: Master of Optics, Mathematics, Physics and Medicine", Al Shindagah, November-December 2004.
68. ^ Rosanna Gorini (2003), "Al-Haytham the Man of Experience: First Steps in the Science of Vision", International Society for the History of Islamic Medicine, Institute of Neurosciences, Laboratory of Psychobiology and Psychopharmacology, Rome, Italy.
69. ^ Rüdiger Thiele (2005). "In Memoriam: Matthias Schramm", Arabic Sciences and Philosophy 15, p. 329–331. Cambridge University Press.
70. ^ Bradley Steffens (2006), Ibn al-Haytham: First Scientist, Morgan Reynolds Publishing, ISBN 1599350246.
71. ^ Mariam Rozhanskaya and I. S. Levinova (1996), "Statics", in Roshdi Rashed, ed., Encyclopedia of the History of Arabic Science, Vol. 2, p. 614-642 [642], Routledge, London and New York.
72. ^ 1000 Years of Knowledge Rediscovered at Ibn Battuta Mall, MTE Studios.

_____________

I fail to see your point, visit any university or hospital and see who their top doctors and surgeons are, go to duke search index, go to John's Hopkins, go to George Washington university.

Are you a part of the academic circle to know what Muslims are famous or not? firstly they were deemed Islamic scholars and scientists because there was a Muslim empire, now aside from their names, no one can claim them a scientist for a religion -- rather a nationality.

Alot of the medications out on the market today are an effort of Muslims with PhD's ..
pcn was an accidental find and folks got along without it just fine for centuries, they had other herbs and surgery and managed longevity. Folks might not have suffered our modern maladies at all a thousand years ago, what was prevelant then might not be now and vice versa, what is your point?

PCN in and of itself is completly worthless today barely decades after its discovery and largely restricted in use to syphillis ( a sexually transmitted disease common amidst westerners) so indeed it is a good thing they 'discovered' it to save their kings and papuers alike-- you are under the impression that an accidental find equates with pioneering?

Go educate yourself fellow, don't read two statements from a google search or a shady email and think you've mustered religion/science and world history and then come make a moot point with a silly paste.
You are neither happy with evidence, nor are you happy with what folks write backed up by credible history.. that is your problem so work on it on your private time, I really hate wasting my own time on the nonsense that you spew and every chance you get!

all the best

[Muhammad]

:sl:

I'm not sure where this thread is going, but I'm pretty sure we are way off-topic here. Perhaps we would all do well to take note of the following reminder:

Until Allah guides anyone they will not see. So its useless us putting people down and making statements which appear to people as derogatory because this further alienates then from Islam. If we are kind and gentle in our approach they may wish to learn more about Islam and as a result Allah may guide them.

May Allah guide us all :( Ameen

Aameen.

Thread closed.