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tarek_abbas
06-09-2009, 11:07 AM
السلام عليكم و رحمه الله و بركاته
i have a very big problem in my life, please have the patience to read my message and please care to respond to me, you can change my life and save me from zamb kabeer i might be doing
im sorry im gonna be detailed but i want u to give me the best judgement

i am 21 years old and i live in egypt, through all my life i had no experience with girls, i always believed that i should wait till i find just one girl and marry her and live happily ever after as allah will reward me for not just playing with any girl

last summer i got engaged to a girl within my family (bint khal mamty
), she is 27 years old and she lives and lived all her life in the usa, i never knew her untill last summer , we knew each other and i was taken by the fact of getting close to a girl, as i mentioned before i never been in a relation, anyway i decided to propose to her coz i didnt want to do something tagdb rabna

we got engaged and she left after that to the usa as her vaccation was over, and she told me that she never did anything with any guy before and that she has zero sexual experience, then she came to visit me last december and she stayed with me in my house (i live with my mother and my grand mother, the latter is her aunt) and we decided before she came that we r not engaged , we r married and i promised her that she is my wife and i will deal with her as if she is my wife and 3ahdt rabna 3la enha mraty and that all what was left is just the paper work to get it official

so when she came in december we did sexual things, we did everything but not real sex (ya3ny mahsalsh nikah) bs unfortuanatley she lost her virginity to my fingers or thats what she told me coz i never saw the blood , she went to the bathrom and told me that she lost her virgintiy

then she left again and later on i found old emails (before me) between her and a guy talking about sex and when i faced her with that she admitted to me that she lied to me and that she did everything that she has done with me with that guy before but she swore to me that she lost her virginty to me
and since then i cant trust her and i didnt break up with her coz i feel guilty and respnosible for what we did

i dont know what to do, please tell me the right thing to do and please tell me if what we did is considered zena or not and how can i fix what i did without magdb rabna , please help me, i really need guidance, allah blessed u with knowledge , please help me with it
thanks in advance , جزاكم لله خيرا
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Raudha
06-09-2009, 02:06 PM
:w:

Brother, I am a bit confused by your explanation. Just to clarify, did you make Nikah to her? :peace:
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Raudha
06-09-2009, 03:21 PM
Originally Posted by Alpha Jr
Officially no because he still had the paper work of marriage.
So you mean that Nikah was not performed at all :? I don't think so because the brother has mentioned many times that he did not want to do anything to earn the wrath of Allah...

Can the brother please clarify for us because if he is not married to the woman then he can still leave her and move on and there will be no issue of how much he loves her..
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Rabi'ya
06-09-2009, 03:26 PM
:sl:

if you guys didnt actually have sex then she didn't lose her virginity to u. Even if she says shes had a boyfriend before. Brother you really need to be more clear in order that we may help you better
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Muslim Woman
06-09-2009, 03:58 PM
:w:


Originally Posted by tarek_abbas
السلام عليكم و رحمه الله و بركاته

...if what we did is considered zena or not and how can i fix what i did without magdb rabna ..
what is magdh rabna ?? If you are not married to her , I wonder , how your parents & her parents allowed both of you to stay at the same res ????

Offer your sincere repentance to Allah & don't ever stay alone with the opposite sex in private. Prophet (pbuh) said : in that case , Satan becomes the third person.

If she is repented about her mistakes in the past , then u may forgive & marry her. If she still loves that other man , then u must not marry her.

Offer Ishthekhara & take your decision.
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- IqRa -
06-09-2009, 04:15 PM
Oh....kay. Half the post doesnt actually make sense because its not english?
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Nihila
06-09-2009, 04:33 PM
Salaam,

Erm...whoops?! Akhi, you need ask yourself what you are doing here! If you guys didnt have your nikkah performed, you are not and were not married. Engagement means squat in this situation...and as for her 'losing her virginity': unless you committed zina 'akbar' her virginity remains in tact.

We all make mistakes Akhi, nobody but Allah swt has the right to judge you or her. Please please please repent and try your utmost not to make the same mistake again...And Allah is most merciful.

Akhi, you really need to think about whether or not you trust this girl...no doubt marrying her would be the best thing to do 'morally' because you've promised to and whatnot, but can you trust her word now?

Istikhara, Istikhara, Istikhara!

You're in my duas inshaAllah :)
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S_87
06-09-2009, 05:38 PM
and we decided before she came that we r not engaged , we r married and i promised her that she is my wife and i will deal with her as if she is my wife and 3ahdt rabna 3la enha mraty and that all what was left is just the paper work to get it official
what do you mean by the bold part brother?????


then she left again and later on i found old emails (before me) between her and a guy talking about sex and when i faced her with that she admitted to me that she lied to me and that she did everything that she has done with me with that guy before but she swore to me that she lost her virginty to me
from your explanation you used ur fingers and didnt actually...?
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glo
06-09-2009, 05:43 PM
Contrary to what others have said I think it is possibly to break the hymen partially without having full intercourse. It could be caused by inserting an object such as a tampon or a finger, although that is not very likely to happen - not unless you were quite forceful.

On the other hand breaking the hymen does not always lead to bleeding, so it is possible for a women to lose her virginity without having 'anything to show for it'.

What seems strange is your fiance claiming to have lost her virginity without having seen any blood. How exactly would she know without examining herself quite carefully?

By the end of the day this boils down to trust.
Do you trust her to be truthful or not?

Out of interest, if she had come to you and said that she was not a virgin, would you have wanted to marry her?
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جوري
06-09-2009, 06:02 PM
Tarek 3abas you can't fool around and then come tat3an an'nas fi a3radihim, yeah?
if you let go of this girl and expect a bleeding virgin in your bed, will you come forward and tell her you did all but penetrated another female?

Enough of this nonsense, also may I suggest you learn something of reproductive anatomy -- there are a host of virginal membranes as varied as anything else in creation.
They can be stretchy, or imperforate or septate or non existing all together ..
Time you let go of all this cultural archaic(ness) and fear Allah swt.
No one has the ability to tell you whether someone is a virgin or not, and I hazard think of how many lives were ruined by some ridiculous belief that it has to be a certain way!

As Glo, said, it is a matter of trust.. it doesn't seem to me like you trust, or even like this girl, given the way you highlight her age, and snoop into her emails, while playing the innocent party.. You are just as guilty, whether or not you continue with this lady it wouldn't matter, what does matter is that you are sincere in the future about what you've done with whomever it is you end up marrying.. It is very unforunate to ruin someone's life and feel entitled to start afresh with someone who doesn't know of your history. You engaged in sexual acts just the same!

and Allah swt knows best

:w:
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Sahabiyaat
06-09-2009, 06:23 PM
:sl:

im sorry for your situation brother.obviously you are very upset about her past,seeing as you have preserved your chastity for so long, i commend you for that, especially being a boy, in a world which allows boys to please themselves sexually as they want, and only females are punished, so MasahaAllah its really good you have remained pure.

I hope whatever happend between you was in wedlock... otherwise your biggest worry is not how faithful this girl/wife is, but rather your sin of physical contact with a woman who is not yet halal for you.

As sis glo has explained,...there is a possibility to what this girl is saying...but then again, from what youve said, she may not be entirely honest with you....so its upto you.If you can confirm that she is of doubtful charachter, and you have done the nikkah...you may want to consider ending it now (divorce), esp as these problems can ruin a marriage later on, so better to sort it out from the start.

and im sure you deserve someone who is just like you.

and if there is no nikkah, then ask Allah for forgiveness and give her your reasosn for leaving her, namely the dodgy emails.
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Tony
06-09-2009, 07:45 PM
the girl obviously really liked you, she covered her past (right or wrong) coz she wanted to be with you, what is it with men that are happy to defile young girls then expect to them all to be virgins. sort your insecurities out brother, if you love the girl then let it go and dont beat her up with it, if you cant then I pray that Allah will send her a man and not a boy
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tarek_abbas
06-09-2009, 10:23 PM
thank you all for caring to reply to me and taking from ur precious time to discuss my problem , i really appreciate it and allah ykrmkom for that

as for the explanation:
1-im not officially married to this girl, we r just engaged
2-i didnt do full intercourse with her , just with my fingers
3-she told me she bled in the bathroom , thats why she said that she lost her virginity
4-i dont trust her ofcourse coz she lied to me
5-i am responsible of what i did with her , ofcourse i know that, and i dont want to do something thats unfair to her
6-and this is very importanat, she is in my family and no one knows any thing of what we did, so i dont know if its fair to her to leave her as she will be a girl that lost her virginty to a guy who was just her fiance
so please tell me if its fair to leave her or not , and no one told me if what we did is zina or not
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جوري
06-09-2009, 10:29 PM
pre-marital and extra marital relations is Zina..( and Allah swt knows best)

I think you should marry her as you'd previously promised her you'd -- in other words you gave a verbal contract to her on which you both acted!

having an email exchange with someone doesn't denote sexual activity.

two or four sins don't nullify each other..

in other words, if she did something wrong, and you did something wrong, then you are both accountable.. You are not exempt from error because you believe she was deceptive to you.

Also spying on people in Islam is a sin :

49: 12

O ye who believe! avoid suspicion as much (as possible): for suspicion in some cases is a sin: and spy not on each other, nor speak ill of each other behind their backs. Would any of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brother? Nay, ye would abhor it. But fear Allah: for Allah is Oft-Returning, Most-Merciful.





you should both start anew, and close the door on your past and make sincere repentance!




:w:
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ragdollcat1982
06-09-2009, 11:32 PM
If the brother does not trust the girl than he should not marry as how can one have a stronge stable marriage without trust as it is the very foundation after God for a relationship.
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glo
06-10-2009, 06:38 AM
Originally Posted by tarek_abbas
so i dont know if its fair to her to leave her as she will be a girl that lost her virginty to a guy who was just her fiance
so please tell me if its fair to leave her or not , and no one told me if what we did is zina or not
Does that not sum it up?

If you really took her virginity (and you seem to believe that you did), then haven't you severely hampered her chances of finding somebody else who will marry her?

You are both responsible for what you did.
The difference is, she will carry the consequences, and you get to walk away.

Ask yourself, how can you try to put right the wrong which has been committed?
Reply

islamlover_girl
06-10-2009, 08:08 AM
First you have to know that what u did is completly haram ,promissing to marry her never mean that she is really ur halal wife.Primary Requirements for marriage in islam are :
1) Mutual agreement (Ijab-O-Qubul) by the bride and the groom.
2) Two adult and sane witnesses.
3) Mahr (marriage-gift) to be paid by the groom to the bride either immediately (muajjal) or deferred (muakhkhar), or a combination of both.
since there were not any witnesses or mahr then you were not married at all and so any touch or physical action is HARAM.
u have to repent and deside never to do such thing again ,may Allah forgive and guide u.
about ur fiancee,if u r sure that she repented and became a good muslim u can marry her if not then she is not a sutable mother for ur future children in shaa Allah.
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syilla
06-10-2009, 08:34 AM
:salamext:

akhee i think for now you should more worry how you will answer Allah swt for doing what you shouldn't be doing.

If other matters most than you should be afraid.

Allah ta`ala says: "Do not come near Zina, for it is a shameful deed and an evil path." 17:32

"The male and female who commit fornication - flog each one of them with one hundred lashes, and do not let compassion for the two of them keep you from (complying with) Allah's religion, if you believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a group of believers witness their punishment." [24:2]

The Jurists say that the last verse quoted above is the punishment for fornicators who have never been married. If a person was ever married before committing the crime of Zina, he or she is to be punished by stoning to death. This is established by the practise of the Prophet sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam. If they are not punished in this world and die without repentance (by regretting, leaving the sin, and so forth), they will be punished in the Fire with whips of fire.

In a tradition transmitted by Bukhari, on the authority of Samurah ibn Jundab (raa), concerning a dream of the Prophet in which the Prophet accompanied by Jibreel and Mikaail, the Prophet (saws) said: "We went on and arrived near a pit which was like an oven, out of which we could hear cries. We glanced into it and saw naked men and women, who cried out when the flames reached them from below. I asked, "Who are these, o Jibreel?" He replied: "Males and females who have committed fornication."

In explaining the meaning of the verse concerning Hell, "It has seven gates, to each of these gates a class (of sinners) is assigned." (15:44); `Ataa says: "The most severe of these gates in terms of heat, pain, sorrow, and stinking air is the gate for the doers of fornication, who did it (even) after knowing the awfulness of it."
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Snowflake
06-10-2009, 09:31 AM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
pre-marital and extra marital relations is Zina..( and Allah swt knows best)

I think you should marry her as you'd previously promised her you'd -- in other words you gave a verbal contract to her on which you both acted!

having an email exchange with someone doesn't denote sexual activity.

two or four sins don't nullify each other..

in other words, if she did something wrong, and you did something wrong, then you are both accountable.. You are not exempt from error because you believe she was deceptive to you.

Also spying on people in Islam is a sin :

49: 12

O ye who believe! avoid suspicion as much (as possible): for suspicion in some cases is a sin: and spy not on each other, nor speak ill of each other behind their backs. Would any of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brother? Nay, ye would abhor it. But fear Allah: for Allah is Oft-Returning, Most-Merciful.

you should both start anew, and close the door on your past and make sincere repentance!

:w:
Well said sis Skye :thumbs_up

To the O.P. It's really sad, you fell victim to weakness after keeping yourself pure for so long. This is why Islam forbids men and woman being alone. I agree with sis Skye, that you should marry this girl. As far as her past is concerned, you also have one now. If you find another woman to marry will you admit what you did before her? In fact you should not even disclose your sins. So, really bro, you are both guilty of the same thing. But you should both repent and seek Allah's forgiveness before you are able to marry each other.

“And those who invoke not any other ilaah (god) along with Allaah, nor kill such person as Allaah has forbidden, except for just cause, nor commit illegal sexual intercourse __and whoever does this shall receive the punishment.

69. The torment will be doubled to him on the Day of Resurrection, and he will abide therein in disgrace;

70. Except those who repent and believe (in Islamic Monotheism), and do righteous deeds; for those, Allaah will change their sins into good deeds, and Allaah is Oft‑Forgiving, Most Merciful”
I understand you did not commit zina to its full extent. But it is still zina, albeit of a lesser degree and it is better to repent before you marry each other.
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Sampharo
06-10-2009, 06:56 PM
Dear Tareq,

Let's talk about this heart to heart and truthfully. Are you absolutely sure that old-fashioned 3asabeyya from the Egyptian old traditions in expecting a red hanky is not tainting the perspective of this whole story for you?

Here are the points that you need to take into account: YOU 3ahedt rabbena like you said that she is now YOUR WIFE. And YOU were one of two involved in that "playfulness" that may or may not have made her lose her virginity. And YOU were apparently part of the playfulness that can be seen in a way to indicate that you got sexual pleasure out of it, and even though you don't have a hymen to bleed, it doesn't mean that YOU didn't lose your virginity in that event as well.

From a purely Egyptian point of view, I think more people than not will tell you that coping out of this will be nadala at least, or let's call it as it is: 3olo2eyya nashfa! :) Sorry brother and I hope you're smiling as you read that because we need to always take things with a bit of sugar when there's actually bitterness about to be served. ;)

Islamically speaking, a hymen breaking is not a requirement for a valid marriage, and what you need is to know you have a decent person you want to be with. Adultery HAS to be proven and caught in the act, otherwise it doesn't stand, and if you speak about the emails, you will be jumped by Umar Ibn Al-Khattab for removing "satr rabbena". I think you are starting to understand where this is going, right?

Even if the emails suggests there was touching and such in the land of freedom USA, and she managed to keep it quiet and wants to marry you, you will need to believe that it did not reach nikah. Even if there was something "wrong" with the virginity loss, it was still your playful fingers there weren't they?! Above all why are you saying this now after you made mo3ahda ma3 rabbena that she is ALREADY your wife? Which is silly and I don't understand whatever made you do it other than you probably couldn't wait, which tells me you like her and she likes you so close the story at that. Yes, there is a remote possibility that there might have been something, but people were lashed if they said something like that without four witnesses, and as described it needs to be of a full nikah intercourse eloquently described with "a thread sliding between them would not pass". So you HAVE to take the benefit of the doubt and move forward.

Take your woman to a ma'zoon and do the Islamic thing of making a proper marriage, and the gad3ana thing from an Egyptian point of view towards a girl who handed herself to you. If you can't trust her later on and your relationship is impossible, or something new shows itself regarding infedility but with stronger proof, you can always just get a divorce. At the very least like you said, she will not be scarred by your little fiasco and mo3ahdet rabbena that you did and afterwards seem to regard it as nothing! She will still be a divorcee, not a played girl.

Above all, both you need to sit and repent to God over doing something like this when you were so close to doing it properly and halal. Maintain the veil of God and do not talk to anyone you know about this. If you lift the veil that God put on you, you will be fajer for one, and by your admission Islamically would require yourself to be subjected to the hadd. But if you keep it secret and repent, God is the forgiver and will keep your secret for you.

Wassalam
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