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Muezzin
06-12-2009, 03:30 PM
A prominent Pakistani Muslim cleric who founded a religious alliance against the Taleban was killed today in a suicide bomb attack on his Islamic college in the eastern city of Lahore.

Sarfraz Ahmed Naeemi appeared to have been the target of the blast in his office at the Jamia Naeemia madrassa, which he headed and where he had just conducted Friday prayers.

Dr Naeemi — whose father founded the madrassa and who was well known and respected in Lahore and across Pakistan — died on the way to hospital, according to his son, Waqar.

“I was still in the mosque when I heard a big bang. We rushed towards the office and there was a smell of explosives in the air. There was blood and several people were crying in pain,” Waqar said.

Geo TV showed Dr Naeemi’s body lying on a stretcher, his beard and hair covered in dust and blood stains around his nostrils.

Tariq Saleem Dogar, the Punjab provincial police chief, denounced the attack on the madrassa — which taught maths and computer science as well as Islamic studies — as un-Islamic.

“It could not be an act of a Muslim to carry out an attack in a mosque,” he said.

In another blast at around the same time, a suicide car bomber struck near a mosque in the northwestern town of Nowshera, killing at least three people, police said.

The attacks are the latest in a spate of bombings which local officials say are revenge for Pakistan’s army launching an offensive against the Taleban in and around the northwestern region of Swat last month.

They came the day after the army opened a new front against the Taleban near the tribal region of Waziristan, and the US House of Representatives approved tripling aid to Pakistan to about $1.5 billion a year for the next five years.

Dr Naeemi appears to have been targeted because he had been integral in helping to generate political, religious and public support for the army’s campaign in Swat over the last few weeks.

Last month, he established the Sunni Itehad Council, an alliance of more than 22 Islamic groups and political parties with the explicit goal of opposing the Taleban.

The council claims to represent about 85 million Pakistani followers of the moderate Barelvi school of Sunni Islam, which incorporates music and mysticism and venerates saints and their shrines.

“The Taleban is a stigma on Islam,” Dr Naeemi told The Times in an interview at his madressah last month.

“That is why we will support our Government and our army and their right to destroy the Taleban. We will save Pakistan.” The Taleban preaches an extreme version of the Deobandi school of Sunni Islam, which maintains that many Barelvi practices are un-Islamic and advocates the use of violence against Barelvis and Shia Muslims.

Militants have destroyed several Barelvi shrines in the northwest in recent months.

There are no precise statistics but experts believe that at least half of Pakistan’s 173 million people are Barelvi, and about 20 to 25 per cent Deobandi. Another 20 per cent are Shia.

Source
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The_Prince
06-12-2009, 08:27 PM
the pakistani taliban really dont know how to make good pr. they will end up in the same way as al-qaeda in iraq.

how can they claim to be fighting for the Muslims against the oppresive goverment, whats the difference between them and the goverment now, both are in the act of killing the Muslims and oppressing and killing the Muslim ulama. a middle group needs to emerge and take both down. :)
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Trumble
06-13-2009, 03:07 PM
Originally Posted by The_Prince
how can they claim to be fighting for the Muslims against the oppresive goverment.....
Have they ever actually claimed that? 'Taliban' as a word is much like 'Mujahideen'; it seems to be applied without much discrimination and carries with it whole set of assumptions that often aren't justified by the facts.
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Clover
06-13-2009, 08:04 PM
Sad that men of teachings have to be killed. I hope he lived a good life.
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Muezzin
06-13-2009, 08:17 PM
I'm temporarily closing the thread to clean it up based on a violation of the following forum rule:

20. No praise of, condoning of, or calls for violence or other unislamic behaviour will be tolerated whatsoever on the forum. This includes inciting and glorifying combat under the pretense of Jihad. The scholars are to be relied upon in such issues.

EDIT: Thread reopened. Discussion of Ibn Tamiyyah has been moved to this thread.
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The_Prince
06-14-2009, 01:58 AM
A new Islamic militia leader has emerged in Pakistan to openly challenge al Qaida-affiliated warlord Baitullah Mehsud for the first time from within his own tribe, marking the start of a bloody confrontation in the wild Waziristan region that could have profound consequences for both Pakistan and the West.

In his first interview with Western news reporters, Qari Zainuddin vowed this week to wipe out Mehsud and rescue Pakistan from a reign of terror that has pushed the nuclear-armed U.S. ally toward collapse.

Zainuddin charged that Mehsud, who is the leader of the Pakistani Taliban, had betrayed both his Muslim religion and the Mehsud tribe of his native South Waziristan, which borders Afghanistan.

"To fight our own country is wrong," said Zainuddin, in an interview given in a hideout on the edge of South Waziristan, surrounded by masked Kalashnikov-totting followers. "Islam doesn't give permission to fight against a Muslim country. This is where we differ. What we're seeing these days, these bombings in mosques, in markets, in hospitals; these are not allowed in Islam. We don't agree with them."

But victory will not mean any lessening of efforts to expel Westerners from neighboring Afghanistan, Zainuddin said. He pledged to send his forces into Afghanistan once Mehsud is vanquished.

"The whole Muslim world should come together because all infidels have come together against Islam. Whether it is Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Chechnya, Muslims must protect ourselves," said Zainuddin, who has the title of "Qari" or someone who has memorized the entire Koran. "The problem is that we cannot go to Afghanistan these days because we have had to deal with Baitullah."

Zainuddin, who described himself as "real" Taliban , reportedly has gathered as many as 3,000 armed followers and is being secretly backed by the Pakistan state against Mehsud's, who has a $5 million U.S. bounty on his head as a "key al Qaida facilitator." Osama bin Laden and his deputy, Ayman al Zawahiri, are thought likely to be hiding in the South Waziristan region controlled by the Mehsud tribe.

A cult of throat-slitting and suicide bombing marks Mehsud's grim rule. His group has staged spectacular terrorist attacks across Pakistan and has an extremist network that spans the tribal borderland that runs along the Afghan border and reaches deep into the country.

On Saturday, Mehsud's commanders claimed responsibility for last week's devastating bombing of a luxury hotel in the north west city of Peshawar and the assassination of a prominent anti-Taliban cleric in the eastern city of Lahore.

Many believe that Mehsud can be defeated only by a member of his own clan. Zainuddin is a Mehsud and also he used to be part of Mehsud's network, giving him an intimate knowledge of its working and its members, a knowledge that the Pakistan army lacks.

Around a dozen Mehsud tribal chiefs, in separate meetings, told McClatchy that they supported Zainuddin but were afraid to speak publicly. Their fears were compounded by a deep suspicion of the Pakistani state and especially the army, which has made clandestine deals with Mehsud in the past.

"Not since the time of Alexander the Great have the Mehsud people suffered such slavery," said one tribal chief who asked not to be identified to protect himself. "We want to stand with Zainuddin but we don't trust the government. Three times in the past, they have made deals with Baitullah Mehsud. Generals have gone and eaten dinner with him. We are scared that the generals will make up with him again."

Zainuddin's private militia includes relatives of Mehsud's victims as well of some of Mehsud's own men who, Zainuddin said, are deserting. A powerful armed faction, known as the Turkistan group, which lives on the edge of South Waziristan around the town of Jandola, has already backed Zainuddin and currently provides much of his muscle, according to local tribesmen.

(EDITORS: BEGIN OPTIOANL TRIM)

A tribal "jirga" or meeting of Mehsud triable chiefs has been called for the coming week to decide whether to back Zainuddin.

"Now people's hearts have come alive," said Zainuddin, who sports a trim beard and speaks softly but with confidence. "Before, no one was willing to speak up against this brutality, these wrong things. Now people are willing to say that Baitullah Mehsud is a beast. God willing, the people are with us."

A vicious round of blood-letting between Zainuddin's fighters and Mehsud's men has already begun, with beheading the favorite mode of execution.

In a significant victory, Zainuddin's militia chased Mehsud's men out of the two major towns that lie close to South Waziristan, Dera Ismail Khan and Tank. Residents of the towns said that they felt liberated from a life of ever-present dread.

Mehsud, the de facto ruler of Waziristan, appears genuinely shaken by Zainuddin's challenge, according to Mehsud tribesmen, and has offered to carve out a separate territory for Zainuddin if he drops the fight.

But Zainuddin has a personal score to settle. His uncle and brother were murdered by Mehsud's men, who also looted and destroyed his family home in South Waziristan.

The Pakistan army is widely believed to be preparing to launch a military offensive against to follow the current operation against a branch of Mehsud's Taliban movement in the Swat valley. Long convoys of army vehicles were visible passing through Dera Ismail Khan and Tank towards South Waziristan on Friday and Saturday, while Makeen in South Waziristan, a village known as a Mehsud stronghold, was pounded by Pakistani jet fighters late on Friday.

Zainuddin would be key to any army offensive in South Waziristan, both to weaken Mehsud — he's beaten Pakistan's vast military three times — and to help track down Mehsud's supporters if his 10,000 heavily armed men melt into the local population.

Zainuddin said he hoped a fight could be avoided if the Mehsud tribe would "throw out" Baitullah Mehsud.

"We work differently to an army. They will do much damage and homes of ordinary people will do destroyed," said Zainuddin. "It is better that we Mehsuds take care of this."

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/world/story/70022.html
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islamic-s
06-14-2009, 02:09 AM
Its always tragic when Ulama get caught up in the mix of politics and fighting.

Check out the death count of Muslims in the world
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doorster
06-14-2009, 02:10 AM
by
By Brig. (retired) Junaid Zaman

Pakistan is touched at the traipse of the dispossessed, the mien and foot-slogging weariness of the war refugee scattered throughout NWFP and beyond. Whereas the Pakistanis are worried about these internally displaced people, they are also waiting for some breakthrough in the war against terror. A break through which will ensure the Pakistani upper hand in the FATA and Swat region. Perhaps that breakthrough has come in the form of Qari Zainuddin Mehsud.

Baitullah Mehsud, the chief terrorist in Pakistan should be the number one target of the Pakistani security forces. He is the root and axis of evil right now. Because of the serious and very powerful military operation in the Swat region, many of the adversaries of Baitullah are now sensing that they might be able to topple the Baitullah. Baitullah can only defeated from within. Bombing from air and ground by troops will take long time, many resources and many sacrifices to capture or kill the Baitullah and to break the back of the terrorists.

According to the news, the leader of a Taliban faction at odds with Pakistani Taliban chief Baitullah Mehsud denounced Mehsud for staging attacks inside the country, a sign of rivalries within the collection of groups identified as the Taliban. In a face-to-face interview with a foreign news agency, Qari Zainuddin urged tribal leaders to resist Mehsud and said his fighters, he claimed to have 3,000, would stay neutral if the army launches an operation in South Waziristan, Mehsud’s stronghold. `Whatever Baitullah Mehsud and his associates are doing in the name of Islam is not a jihad, and in fact it is rioting and terrorism,” Zainuddin said. “Islam stands for peace, not for terrorism.”

As Qari Zain comes forward from Waziristan, a new hope has emerged. This opportunity must not be missed by the Pakistani security forces. Enough of the blunders,neglect and other excuses. Surprisingly, rather miraculously the confidence of the people is rising in the FATA.

edit:
Qari Zainuddin Mehsud (centre of picture, flanked by bodyguards) a leader of a Pakistani Taliban faction, fell into a dispute with his kinsman baitollah last March over definitions of jihad and terroism.

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brotherubaid
06-14-2009, 07:57 AM
Lot of work has been done by the saudi scholars and lots of scholars of Ahulhadith about the taliban n usama bin laden n may Allah reward them.


there is refutations n lots of metrial in arabic n english n urdu on this site www.asliahlesunnet.com

as far as brelvi school of though goes than they really need to fix their aqeedah , coz if they dided upon what they live on then they will not be saved n may Alah save us all from their shar. They are full of shirk , not to be considered alim or scholar or whatever , al they got is graves n how to worship them, innovations n how to celebarte n propogat ethem n how to do all forms of shirk with ALLah . thats all they teach n thats all they are about.

Taliban are the khawarij of our time n bin ladin , as it ws declared by ibn baaz back in the day .. n the major scholars of our time.
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doorster
06-14-2009, 08:29 AM
....


argh... the hypocrisy of it all ("condemnation" of killers in one breath, then giving the encouragements to do it more in the next)
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Abu Hannah
06-14-2009, 08:34 AM
Taliban are the khawarij of our time
In all honesty I never heard that before nor intend on adhering to its view...
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Sampharo
06-14-2009, 08:57 AM
Brother doorster, I think you misunderstood brother Ubaid. He was not sanctioning any campaigns, he was just adding to the fact that another group is also misguided. Groups of muslims who have been mislead by their sectarian imams and politically motivated zendeeqs are being misled day in day out, and it is our job to guide them back to the correct line of Islam as God and prophet Mohammed laid down and as the companions lived.

Thank God the moderators cleaned up this thread. It was infuriating.

Abu Hannah, maybe you haven't heard it because you don't sit at proper scholarly lectures nor go to authentic institutional sources. Taliban is a deobandi group and the opening act of this thread shows that they believe in killing oneself in a treacherous attack to kill another unarmed disagreeing scholar, against the orders of the Amir, striking terror and killing innocent muslim bystanders including women and children! There is NOTHING Islamic about such a cowardly act.
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doorster
06-14-2009, 09:07 AM
^^ ok I'll change the post in a bit
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brotherubaid
06-14-2009, 10:35 AM
Here is what the grand mufti just said in an interview yesterday:

Problems faced by Muslim states identical: Al-Asheikh

The problems faced by the ministries of Islamic affairs in most Muslim countries are identical, according to Minister of Islamic Affairs, Endowments, Call and Guidance Saleh Al-Asheikh.



“The responsibilities of the ministries of religious affairs are identical as their goals are the same and the challenges they face also are not very different,” Saleh Al-Asheikh told Arab News on his return from Tunisia yesterday.



One of the important tasks of the religious affairs ministries is to tackle the challenges posed by extremist ideologies. “One of their huge responsibilities is combating terrorist and deviant ideologies spawned by some people who carry the label of religion and hide under slogans which declare others infidels. They should be rooted out completely because they mar the true Islam and strive to breed a generation feeding on mistaken religious concepts,” Al-Asheikh said.



“Everyone who endangers Muslims’ ideological security, doctrinal stability, spiritual well-being and religious peace should be dealt with firmly,” he said.



He urged the departments of religious affairs, scholars, intellectuals and cultural organizations to join hands in fighting the menace as the most effective method to counter ideological and intellectual misguidance is by opposing it with logical ideas steeped in religious scholarship and wisdom.



The minister also stressed the need to lay down a framework for cooperation in countering deviant ideologies so that the young generation is protected both emotionally and intellectually from slipping onto the wrong path.



The Saudi minister also signed a memorandum of understanding with his Tunisian counterpart, Abubakr Al-Akhzuri, for cooperation between the countries in Islamic affairs.



The MoU stressed the need for taking steps to deepen the understanding of religion by both mosque officials and worshippers at mosques, Al-Asheikh said.



The minister also said the ministries of Islamic affairs in both countries planned to set up a joint committee for the speedy implementation of the MoU.



The MoU also stressed the need for exchange of expertise in the collection and distribution of Zakah.
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Sampharo
06-14-2009, 06:52 PM
This is for Abu Hanna and whomever else asks for this, even though I have put it over and over in separate posts, it is good to collect them together. The proper Islamic opinion with evidence that rebellion against Waleyy Al-Amr is forbidden even if corrupt or does not rule by Sunnah.

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “The best among your rulers are those whom you love and they love you in turn, those who pray (make supplication) for you and you pray for them. The worst of your rulers are those whom you hate and they hate you in turn, and you curse them and they curse you.”
Someone asked: “O Messenger of Allah! Shall we confront them with swords?”
The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “No, as long as they hold prayers among you. If you see from your rulers what you hate, hate the action they do but do not rebel against them.” [Sahîh Muslim]
and

On the authority of Huthaifa ibn Al Yaman, the prophet -pbuh- said: “Rulers after me will come who do not abide by my guidance and do not rule by my Sunnah. Some of their men will have Satan’s heart in a human’s body.”

Hudhayfah said: “What should I do, O Messenger of Allah, if I live to see that time?”

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “You should listen and obey them even if the ruler smites your back and takes your wealth.” [Sahîh al-Bukhârî and Sahîh Muslim]


and

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “There will be rulers over you. You will agree with some of what they come with and reject some of it. Whoever rejects what must be rejected will maintain his innocence and whoever hates it will maintain his innocence. However, those who accept (what should be denied) and follow the ruler will be sinners.”

The Companions said: “O Messenger of Allah, shall we fight these rulers?” He said: “No, as long as they pray.” [Sunan al-Tirmidhî]


The majority of proper established scholars of Ahl al-Sunnah wal Jamâ`ah have adopted these hadîth and use them as evidence in their ruling that is unlawful to rebel against the ruler, no matter how oppressive he might be, unless he exhibits outright unbelief.

Imam Ahmad said: “Obedience to the ruler who is agreed upon by people is obligatory.”

Imam al-Tahâwî said: “We do not support rebellion against our rulers even if they are unjust. We do not make supplications against them and do not set any revolution against them. We believe our obedience to them is obedience to Allah unless they order something unlawful. We make supplication for their guidance and their safety.”

Ibn Abî al-`Izz al-Hanafî writes in Sharh al-`Aqîdah al-Tahâwiyyah: "It is much better to stick to obeying the rulers even if they are oppressors, because rebellion against them will cause even greater strife. Being patient with them will be an expiation for misdeeds and increase rewards.”

Ibn Battâl said: “Scholars have agreed that it is better to obey the oppressive rulers and participate in jihâd alongside them than to rebel against them. This will prevent bloodshed and prevent strife. The only exception is when the oppressive rulers show clear unbelief.”

Ibn Taymiyah writes: “The scholars of Ahl al-Sunnah are agreed that is obligatory to refrain from fighting in civil strife. This is an application of the authentic hadîth in this regard. Many scholars used to write that down in their statements of creed - that they believed in and they called others to believe in - to be patient and not to fight the rulers.”


It is established by the scholars of practically all Islamic institutions around the World that what Taliban is doing is technically and for all intents and purposes, the illegal act of Khawarej, and should be dealt with under the ruling of "Corruptors in the Land". The underlined red part of the prophet's hadith also shows that such rulers that cannot be rebelled against include not only bad ones but also those who do not rule by Sunnah or Shariah.

The black underlined statement by Ibn Taymiyah is to show the ACTUAL opinion of this great scholar and defend against the blatant corruption that has been made against this great Allama by attributing wild fatwas to him when he never uttered them.

This murdered scholar -god rest his soul- has dies in the path of telling the truth, and may God punish the murderers for their crimes.

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brotherubaid
06-15-2009, 05:47 AM
Yep taliban are criminal and murderers , not only they at times kill themselfes by blowing it up which is haram they kill innocent muslims with them , which is haram , so two wrong dont make it right , n well their ideology is wrong all together, SubhanAllah, Ibn baaz n other scholars may Allah have mercy in them were warning against bin laden n these taliban Wayyyy back in the day, look what they turned out to be n how much damage n fitnah they brought to the muslim countries n world , n innocent kids n women, may Allah save us from their evil.

as far as the person who died , He used to seek help from other than Allah , call upon other than Allah , give sadaqah and zabiha for other than Allah , worship graves n seek assistance from the dead , angels n prophets , ALL FORMS OF SHIRK THAT ONE CAN THINK OF , so may Allah save us all from the evil of such people as well as evil of taliban n khawarij , indeed mistakes of aqeedah are bigger n worst coz Allah does not forgive those who do shirk , n forgives whomever else He Wills, so may Allah save us from all forms of shirk , specially the forms being spread by the person who died n his CULT!

Let me just quote Ahmed Raza Khan Brelvi, the founder of this cult what he says in his famous book Malfouzat : When ever i have called(seeked help) i have said Ya Ghouse Madad( Oh abdul qadir gelani HELP!) once i tried to say Ya Alah madad but Ya ghouse Madad came out of my mouth!!! ----- He always used to seek help n make duaa to Ghous( Abdul qadir gelani RahimahulLLah) .. nEVER ASKED aLLAH FOR HELP , ASSISTANCE , or Made Duaa to Allah! U be the judge of ahmed raza n his followers , who only have fairy tales , n blatant lies on which they have made a manhaj , from A to Z their whole creed revolves around stories that have no Isnaaad!!

N well what do we say in our prayer 5 times a day in each rakat.. we say Iyyak Nabudu wa iyaaka nastaeen.. You (Alone) we worship, and You (Alone) we ask for help (for each and everything). This is what we say in our prayers everyday, YOU ALONE WE ASK FOR HELP , bu unfortunately Shaytaan made ahmed raza seek help from ghous ALL his life , until he says i have never said ya Allah Help! even after he tried ,

This was just one lil example , i dont wana get into details if this deviant group , lots of work have been done by scholars , and brothers why follow a creed that goes against Quraan itself !!

May Allah save us all

Assalam O Alikum
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doorster
06-15-2009, 07:00 AM
^^
Originally Posted by doorster
^^ ok I'll change the post in a bit
hm... having 2nd thoughts again now... will try to repost if I can get one of the just brothers on LI-Staff to back it!



والسلام على المسلمين والمسلمات
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Sampharo
06-15-2009, 07:09 AM
as far as the person who died , He used to seek help from other than Allah
Granted, but those criminals targeted him because he was telling what we and all proper muslims say, which is that Taliban are criminals and a bunch of misguided misguiding thugs and khawarej. As the news said, their threat to the scholar's father was specific regarding shutting up and not telling people not to support them.

The misguidance in tawassol is rampant and is another story. It needs sending books and proper scholars to re-educate and guide those people to what the prophet and the companions did and what Islam is as per the four schools of jurisprudence and original line of Assalaf Assaleh and Ahlu Sunnah wal Jamaa, and what wara3 and zuhd is about rather thant the innovated sufi habits. If they refuse education or are not convinced and stick to their ways then that is their choice and God does what he chooses, scholars just keep calling and educating. They can't be guided however when they are receiving death threats and bombs instead. I believe the bigger more immediate threat should be dealt with first. Besides, in all muslim countries there are those that are doing tawassol and sufism and all that, hopefully some attention there would do well.

I can see though we are in agreement, al-hamdolellah there is more guidance and sense coming to these matters on these pages.

May Allah save us all
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brotherubaid
06-15-2009, 09:32 AM
yes brother AlhumdolILLAH , n may Allah reward u for the ahadith u quoted, may Allah give us the understanding o fthose clear words by the prophet.

Yes its true He died warning against evil, no doubt about that , but the article waswritten in a manner to attract people to this sect, making them look innocent n to get symphaty.

And Allah knows the shirk of these people , you might not be aware bro, its not about tawassol , that is another story , that is like minor stuff , they are misguiding people by the dozens daily ,
As we know the shirk of the Mushriks of our time is wort then the sirk of the kuffar of quraish n those who opposed the Prophet sala lahi alihi wa sallam, The shirk of these brevlis is worst than that of the people of quraysh.

U see how many times "Shrines" have beenmentioned in the articel, what i sthe Islamic position on shrinmes, Some one give us One hadith!! just one hadith!! permiting these shrines, They can never!! instead there are tens of hadiths against shrines and building over the graves and even making the graves high n with stones n all, The prophet on his death bed warned us and told us to stay away from Shrines , and to turn these shrines into mAsaid -i.e places of worship n all of their worship takes place on hese shrines n graves n the shirk there can make the heart of a monotheist explode.

Its not about tawasol , its about shirk n kufr n joining others in worship with Allah,

So here isa brelvi scholar n poet who wrote their famous book dewan-e Muhamadi . his name is muhamad yaar fareedi if im not mistaken

he goes like this
If muhamad has taken Muhamad(sala lahu alihi wa sallam) as a god
Then he is a muslim n not a cheater/deciever

n

The one who rose upon his throne as Allah
has decended in madeenah as Mustafa

The one who always used to say "Im His Servant/slave
will come out on the throne on the last day saying Im your lord!!!

This is shirk a person who believes this , no matter if he is killed by taliban or anyone will not be saved , this shirk is more severe than the shirk of nonmuslims,

Lol ahmed raza in his leters would refer to himself as Abdul Mustafa~!!!

May Allah save us all from the shar of this sect.

Graves and what is done by them around n over the graves in the stuff the prophet warned all hi slife and on his death bed , which shows how important is it to stay away from the graves n turn them into places of worship n have festivals on them , n such people as is in the hadith will be the WORST OF THE CREATIONS OF ALLAH on the day of judgmemnt.

Assalam O Alikum
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