I have read that gender separation in Islamic countries..

[WesStrikesBack]

..leads to a very high percentage of Muslim boys and young men having their first sexual experience with other boys and young men, and that there is a big problem with men insisting on sodomy with their wives in these same countries.

I am currently researching this trend, and I'm finding many Muslim women consider it a great problem, and that most Mulsim men don't want to discuss it. This seemingly points to a conclusion that gender separation and homosexuality/sodomy is a huge (yet silent) problem in Islam.

Would anyone like to comment?

[darkillusions]

Homosexuality and pedophilia is a bigger problem in the church!

[- IqRa -]

Can you actually quote a reliable source from where you "read" that from?

[syilla]

I am currently researching this trend, and I'm finding many Muslim women consider it a great problem, and that most Mulsim men don't want to discuss it.

?

are you sure about that?

Which muslim women did you find? :rollseyes

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[Normal_man]

It is the problem of west and europe countries

[crayon]

I've also heard that, but I'm no longer so sure of it. I came across this article the other day, this part is relevant

Segregation Not a Cause


Some believe that sex segregation is the main reason behind such relations since sexual urge is a natural dormant energy in all people. Finding no boy to exchange her feelings with, a girl looks to her like, and vice versa.
However, Thamer Al-Saykhan, a columnist for Al-Haya newspaper, refuses the opinion that homosexuality is widespread in Gulf societies due to the minimum interaction between the two sexes. He says that the highest rates of homosexuality are in countries that have gone beyond free mixing between the sexes to a policy of 'do as you like' with the other sex and yet they still have higher rates.

[aamirsaab]

..leads to a very high percentage of Muslim boys and young men having their first sexual experience with other boys and young men, and that there is a big problem with men insisting on sodomy with their wives in these same countries.

I am currently researching this trend, and I'm finding many Muslim women consider it a great problem, and that most Mulsim men don't want to discuss it. This seemingly points to a conclusion that gender separation and homosexuality/sodomy is a huge (yet silent) problem in Islam.

Would anyone like to comment?

I too would like some categorical evidence (statistics, sources of information etc) that supports your claim. Heck, the source of your initial info would also be welcome (and I wonder why you have not posted it...my guess is you obtained it from an unreputable site or you read a post on a forum in passing...in either case, your argument is lacking some foundation and as such will be opened to critique until you sort it out)

BTW; I went to an all-boys secondary school (5 years, during the teen period where hormones are racing). I'm straight.

[Strzelecki]

I've read that from a number of sources. But I just don't think the concrete evidence is there.

If this is true (and even if not...):
May Allah (swt) guide us all. Ameen.

[GreyKode]

homosexuality and pedophilia is a bigger problem in the church!

lol. Totally.

As if the west with all the gender mixing does not suffer from homosexuality(now the hypocrite considers it a disease, a problem, an abnormality).
What we can see in the west leads to the conclusion that even with free mixing they remain as perverted as ever looking for more and more satisfaction through homosexuality, animal sex, you name it.

[Snowflake]

Directly, gender seperation has got zilch to do with it. And, I disagree that it involves a high percentage of men. But yes, it does happen.

It is the increased availability and use of pornographic material, along with the failure to implement islamic morals and laws in their lives, add to which, the prevention of allowing young people to marry by parents when they are ready and willing, as well as hijabless young women inciting men's desires, that has all lead to some men seeking any means to satisfy what should've been natural urges in perverse and degraded ways.

If these issues were addressed, even the strictest form of gender separation would not lead homosexuality.

[- IqRa -]

^ nice and straightforward answer !

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^Yes very nice answer.

I mean just look at the persons name...

[Abdul Fattah]

..leads to a very high percentage of Muslim boys and young men having their first sexual experience with other boys and young men,

And you know this how? Are there any signs for this; or is this just you speculating? And how can you even put a percentage to that? And what kind of percentage? 90% or 0.009% ???

and that there is a big problem with men insisting on sodomy with their wives in these same countries.

That's even more of a slippery slope argument. conjectures and speculations again.

I am currently researching this trend,

Can I ask how you are researching it? Which kind of criteria, examination process?

and I'm finding many Muslim women consider it a great problem

Woman who consider the possibility of this a great problem, or woman who claim that this does happen a lot. And how would these woman know what men do or don't do? And exactly how many Muslim woman have you found who think this? It seems you are very generous with words like "many" and "high" etc... but show no exact numbers.

and that most Mulsim men don't want to discuss it.

Again what is your definition of "most", and how many guys have you actually asked. And have they told you why they don't want to discuss this?

This seemingly points to a conclusion that gender separation and homosexuality/sodomy is a huge (yet silent) problem in Islam.

Again a very slippery slope. It could just as well be that they're not comfortable discussing it for many other reasons. For somebody claiming to do "research" you have very unscientific ways of reaching your conclusions.

[جوري]

The California raisins told him

you know they have us as cave dwelling, gun toting, women beating hooligans, so why shouldn't "I've heard' suffice in such a case?

[Whatsthepoint]

There was a thread about homosexuality in Saudi Arabia and it quoted from the Inependent.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...us-570584.html

[جوري]

two homos on the independent is a formal study in your opinion? lol--Ok

[Abubakar]

..leads to a very high percentage of Muslim boys and young men having their first sexual experience with other boys and young men, and that there is a big problem with men insisting on sodomy with their wives in these same countries.

I am currently researching this trend, and I'm finding many Muslim women consider it a great problem, and that most Mulsim men don't want to discuss it. This seemingly points to a conclusion that gender separation and homosexuality/sodomy is a huge (yet silent) problem in Islam.

Would anyone like to comment?

Did you read it in KKK Weekly ?

Strangely I doubt whether many Muslim women would talk to you about their marital problems.

The only ring of truth here is "most Mulsim men don't want to discuss it" with you.

[جوري]

Homosexuality happens.. it is acknowledged ..
there is help for those who seek to live in accordance to Islamic law..

http://www.islamonline.net/english/i...ty/index.shtml

I doubt however, that Muslim women were interviewed, or that the Saudi regime (as un-Islamic) as it is, has anything to do with men turning homo..

I suspect the same percentage is afflicted the world over -- as is the case with any personality disorders which affects 10%~15% of the population.. it will be 10%~15% in Saskatchewan, Maldives or Saudi Arabia..

:w:

[doorster]

I am going to make my own thread for Urdu speakers in helpdesk forum on this subject, since I spent my first 47 years in Muslim countries, I should know a little something about this perversion.

[Whatsthepoint]

two homos on the independent is a formal study in your opinion? lol--Ok

It isn't, there are no official statistics to confirm the thread starter's theory, but then there are no official statistics about the prevalence of homosexuality in the western world, hence saying it is more common here are equally invalid.

[جوري]

There was a thread about homosexuality in Saudi Arabia and it quoted from the Inependent.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...us-570584.html

re-quoting myself:

Homosexuality happens.. it is acknowledged ..
there is help for those who seek to live in accordance to Islamic law..

http://www.islamonline.net/english/i...ty/index.shtml

I doubt however, that Muslim women were interviewed, or that the Saudi regime (as un-Islamic) as it is, has anything to do with men turning homo..

I suspect the same percentage is afflicted the world over -- as is the case with any personality disorders which affects 10%~15% of the population.. it will be 10%~15% in Saskatchewan, Maldives or Saudi Arabia..

:w:

[Whatsthepoint]

Yes i saw it later, apart from calling homosexuality a disorder I agree with your post.

Anyway, this thread talks about first sexual experiences, having sexual experiences with other boys in puberty doesn't make one gay or anything. the thread starter suggests gender sperataion causes more boys to have first sexual experiences with men than in places where such separation doen't exist, which is possible.

[Zafran]

so far the thread starter as zero bases - only to go on whims.

[Whatsthepoint]

so far the thread starter as zero bases - only to go on whims.

There's also the article from the independent.

[جوري]

anything is possible indeed.. and can be equally dismissed until backed up by facts, stats and data..

anything that deviates from the norm is a disorder and aberrancy.. the norm is heterosexuality not from a religious point of view but a nature point of view.. homosexuality is a deviation from the norm!
It isn't an insult it is a fact!

[Whatsthepoint]

anything is possible indeed.. and can be equally dismissed until backed up by facts, stats and data..

anything that deviates from the norm is a disorder and aberrancy.. the norm is heterosexuality not from a religious point of view but a nature point of view.. homosexuality is a deviation from the norm!
It isn't an insult it is a fact!

I agree, however disorder implies that there's soemthing wrong with it, like calling lefthandedness a mental disorder.
Anyway, it's a social thing, the same way lefthandedness is considered normal nowadays so is homosexuality to a certain extent, at least in the west.

[Zafran]

There's also the article from the independent.

for his conclusions???

[جوري]

There's also the article from the independent.

The article from the independent states that there are homos in Saudi finding freedoms in some areas, it doesn't say, homosexuality is caused because of the strictness of their govt. or of the mysterious Saudi women interviewed to confirm the fact of the matter...

If folks want to engage in sex, they'll do it regardless whether with guys or gals, and the punishment if caught and witnessed is pretty much similar!

for me it is just a sign of the time.. Homosexuality is said to be prevalent as a sign of the end, as well people making it ok by various excuses!

all the best

[Zafran]

I agree, however disorder implies that there's soemthing wrong with it, like calling lefthandedness a mental disorder.
Anyway, it's a social thing, the same way lefthandedness is considered normal nowadays so is homosexuality to a certain extent, at least in the west.

Homosexulaity, Paedophilia - like lefthandedness............ok???

[Zafran]

The article from the independent states that there are homos in Saudi finding freedoms in some areas, it doesn't say, homosexuality is caused because of the strictness of their govt. or of the mysterious Saudi women interviewed to confirm the fact of the matter...

If folks want to engage in sex, they'll do it regardless whether with guys or gals, and the punishment if caught and witnessed is pretty much similar!

for me it is just a sign of the time.. Homosexuality is said to be prevalent as a sign of the end, as well people making it ok by various excuses!

all the best

Salaam

I agree

peace

[جوري]

I agree, however disorder implies that there's soemthing wrong with it, like calling lefthandedness a mental disorder.
Anyway, it's a social thing, the same way lefthandedness is considered normal nowadays so is homosexuality to a certain extent, at least in the west.

It is indeed a disorder and so it was in the DSM-II.. what happened in the last 30 yrs of so isn't a progression of science but a strong lobby. s.. it is no different than any other medical psychological disorder of the same category.

Left or right handedness and homosexuality are as harmonious as underwater basket weaving.. There is no subject for comparison.

all the best

[Whatsthepoint]

Homosexulaity, Paedophilia - like lefthandedness............right

I only compared it to homosexuality and yes, it depends on social attitudes towards an issue. Lefthandedness was considered inferior and it's completely normal today. I don't thnk homosexuality will ever be viewed as completely normal but attitude towards it has changed dramatically in the last decades.

[Zafran]

I only compared it to homosexuality and yes, it depends on social attitudes towards an issue. Lefthandedness was considered inferior and it's completely normal today. I don't thnk homosexuality will ever be viewed as completely normal but attitude towards it has changed dramatically in the last decades.

Maybe Paedophilia is next - social attitudes may change on the issue - making it ok????

[Abubakar]

I only compared it to homosexuality and yes, it depends on social attitudes towards an issue. Lefthandedness was considered inferior and it's completely normal today. I don't thnk homosexuality will ever be viewed as completely normal but attitude towards it has changed dramatically in the last decades.

I assume that you mean attitudes in the west. Some have changed but a lot haven't. Teenagers refer to something they don't like or isn't cool as gay, hardly a ringing endorsement !

Strangely the OP hasn't returned to defend his drivel (he is also an example of western anti-gay attitudes).

[doorster]

I only compared it to homosexuality and yes, it depends on social attitudes towards an issue. Lefthandedness was considered inferior and it's completely normal today. I don't thnk homosexuality will ever be viewed as completely normal but attitude towards it has changed dramatically in the last decades.

the reason homosexuality was legalised in Britain was not because it was deemed a moral and good deed but to prevent Russian commies from taking over UK due to British Secret service being full of queers was more prone to sell out when blackmailed by commie agents

[Whatsthepoint]

Maybe Paedophilia is next - social attitudes may change on the issue - making it ok????

We've seen quite the opposite in the past decades.

[Zafran]

I assume that you mean attitudes in the west. Some have changed but a lot haven't. Teenagers refer to something they don't like or isn't cool as gay, hardly a ringing endorsement !

Strangely the OP hasn't returned to defend his drivel (he is also an example of western anti-gay attitudes).

salaam

Yeah this is true - when I was in school - calling someone Gay was like swearing at them.

[Whatsthepoint]

I assume that you mean attitudes in the west. Some have changed but a lot haven't. Teenagers refer to something they don't like or isn't cool as gay, hardly a ringing endorsement !

That's true in Eglish spakign countries, however I believe the acceptnce is nevertheless increasing there as well. It's language evolving, even gays use gay as a synonym for bad.

[Zafran]

We've seen quite the opposite in the past decades.

The view of Paedophilia may change in the next decade - its all about social attitudes atleast according to you.

[Whatsthepoint]

The view of Paedophilia may change in the next decade - its all about social attitudes atleast according to you.

Yep it is and it's completely possible but I doubt it will happen anytime soon.

[doorster]

the reason homosexuality was legalised in Britain was not because it was deemed a moral and good deed but to prevent Russian commies from taking over UK due to British Secret service being full of queers was more prone to sell out when blackmailed by commie agents

and there is a lot of truth in the first part of OP, Muslimaat replying in this thread will not know the truth of it but Men here should go overseas and visit a cafe or 2 and observe, look around to see the behaviour of and listen to londay baaz men talking

[Zafran]

Yep it is and it's completely possible but I doubt it will happen anytime soon.

a lot of people doubted that about Homosexulaity - it still happend.

[Whatsthepoint]

a lot of people doubted that about Homosexulaity - it still happend.

You are right however there are still some crucial differences between the two. Homosexuality is a victimless relationship between two loving adults, whereas paedophilia includes children, immature beings not old enough to love or make rational decisions.

[Zafran]

You are right however there are still some crucial differences between the two. Homosexuality is a victimless relationship between two loving adults, whereas paedophilia includes children, immature beings not old enough to love or make rational decisions.

Your argumnet is similar to that when people in the past used to say that Homosexulaity is not natural - you use the idea of "victim" and "immature" - Just like Homosexulaity over rided the argumnet of not natural so could paedophilia of "immature" and "victimless" relationship.

[alcurad]

pedophillia is quite different though, not to mention this has consequences for society in general, it's not just the parties involved, or rather everyone is involved in some way or other.

I mean the West especially is going to have a major problem in the decades to come due to failing birth rates, not to mention religious observance is coming back, i mean western religious observance, probably as the situation of the world gets worse people will get more and more hostile to gay's, in light of that is promoting/enforcing homosexuality as is done now good or bad? i mean short-medium-long term-wise,,

it will always exist, but the attitude towards it really important, letting live for those who mind their own affairs is all well and good, but a gay community that's over-emboldened and right in everyone's face is not good either-think 'gay marriage'-.

back to topic, gender separation hasn't much to do with it, rather there's more media attention given to them than ever.

also and Jiddah-city quoted in the independent article- is a major port, with all that implies,,

[Whatsthepoint]

Your argumnet is similar to that when people in the past used to say that Homosexulaity is not natural - you use the idea of "victim" and "immature" - Just like Homosexulaity over rided the argumnet of not natural so could paedophilia of "immature" and "victimless" relationship.

Yes and I'm saying it could, what's the problem?

[Whatsthepoint]

it will always exist, but the attitude towards it really important, letting live for those who mind their own affairs is all well and good, but a gay community that's over-emboldened and right in everyone's face is not good either-think 'gay marriage'-.

what's wrong with seeking equal rights?

[alcurad]

marriage isn't a right though, it's an institution for producing/raising children,,
otherwise from the prevalent POV in-Western populations, or those who have the politician's ears at least-nothing is wrong as long as the people support it in a democracy.

my main argument is that is that it's not the presence of homosexuality rather how much it affects a society that is the main reason for banning it openly, those who really want to do it will regardless of restrictions, but then society goes where when we allow for homosexuality to take a niche it usually wouldn't take except for political pressure/lobbying-nothing wrong per se with pressure, but where does it lead to?

[Whatsthepoint]

marriage isn't a right though, it's an institution for producing/raising children,,
otherwise from the prevalent POV in-Western populations, or those who have the politician's ears at least-nothing is wrong as long as the people support it in a democracy.

my main argument is that is that it's not the presence of homosexuality rather how much it affects a society that is the main reason for banning it openly, those who really want to do it will regardless of restrictions, but then society goes where when we allow for homosexuality to take a niche it usually wouldn't take except for political pressure/lobbying-nothing wrong per se with pressure, but where does it lead to?

So do you agree with civil unions that proved the same rights as marriage?
It leads to a freer, more open society. And gays will remain the minority no matter what, so there is no harm fr the majority. I think immigration and extreme multiculturalism are far greater threats than homosexuals getting rights.

[alcurad]

hmm, civil unions are fine, calling it marriage is over doing it I believe. and I have a different stance on adoption for gay men, women can adopt regardless of 'orientation', but men, not so much. but overall, for Western societies it's not too bad compared to what could be.

immigration is directly related to the birth rate, which is affected by all the 'freedoms', in the end i do believe the hardliner/conservative elements in the West will take over, which is probably not going to be good for many-especially the gays,,

on-topic: the OP should post something, otherwise this was very close to starting a thread for the sake of trolling..I mean if there's no one to argue for the other side, provide anecdotes/evidence/whatever it is that keeps threads alive, then what's the point?

[Whatsthepoint]

hmm, civil unions are fine, calling it marriage is over doing it I believe. and I have a different stance on adoption for gay men, women can adopt regardless of 'orientation', but men, not so much. but overall, for Western societies it's not too bad compared to what could be.

immigration is directly related to the birth rate, which is affected by all the 'freedoms', in the end i do believe the hardliner/conservative elements in the West will take over, which is probably not going to be good for many-especially the gays,,

on-topic: the OP should post something, otherwise this was very close to starting a thread for the sake of trolling..I mean if there's no one to argue for the other side, provide anecdotes/evidence/whatever it is that keeps threads alive, then what's the point?

I'm hoping to see the rise of socially liberal parties that oppose immigration. it's funny how conservatives use Muslim attitute towards gays against Muslims, you got Geert condeming Iran, the German federal land of B-W, led by conservatives, asks every new immigrants what they would do if their son told them he was gay etc.

[alcurad]

immigration will not be stopped though, not as long as there are not enough births by the 'original' populations.

[Whatsthepoint]

immigration will not be stopped though, not as long as there are not enough births by the 'original' populations.

The main problem is natives who refuse to work because they deem it dirty or something. Cutting enomployment benefits could do the job I guess.
Anyway that's not what the thread is about.

[aamirsaab]

:sl:

Thread locked; thread starter has not replied and this thread has degenerated into something weird. So weird, I need to lock it with something even weirder:

Pickachu, I choose you!

Pickachu, use your thundershock to lock this thread!

It's a critical hit!!!