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Thinker
06-15-2009, 06:50 PM
Just watched a news report about food aid sent to Somalia to feed refugees is being sold in the markets after being bought from corrupt officials. The report showed mountains of sacks of maize etc all stamped WFP and USfoodaid. Why isn’t the Muslim world (who are also their neighbours) feeding the Somalis?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6499155.ece
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Intisar
06-15-2009, 09:24 PM
Originally Posted by Thinker
Just watched a news report about food aid sent to Somalia to feed refugees is being sold in the markets after being bought from corrupt officials. The report showed mountains of sacks of maize etc all stamped WFP and USfoodaid. Why isn’t the Muslim world (who are also their neighbours) feeding the Somalis?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6499155.ece
:sl: They haven't helped us even in 1991-1993, when the famine broke out and General Caydiid took it hostage. That's also around the time black hawk down happened.

This isn't suprising, Somalia is an extremely corrupt and poor country. No country has any interest in it, not even our own Muslim brethren (countries). :rollseyes
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Yanal
06-15-2009, 09:26 PM
^ very sad.
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Thinker
06-16-2009, 09:17 AM
So how do Muslims (and (black hawk down) Somalians in particular) reconcile America and the ‘west’ being the great Satans yet it is aid from America and the west that is feeding the Muslim world. Where is the Muslim zakah going to; is all the zakah being spent on building mosques and arming dissident groups?
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MinAhlilHadeeth
06-16-2009, 09:58 AM
Originally Posted by Thinker
Just watched a news report about food aid sent to Somalia to feed refugees is being sold in the markets after being bought from corrupt officials. The report showed mountains of sacks of maize etc all stamped WFP and USfoodaid. Why isn’t the Muslim world (who are also their neighbours) feeding the Somalis?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6499155.ece
Do you ever have anything positive to say? Being balanced. You should try it once in a while.
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ardianto
06-16-2009, 10:09 AM
Originally Posted by Thinker
So how do Muslims (and (black hawk down) Somalians in particular) reconcile America and the ‘west’ being the great Satans yet it is aid from America and the west that is feeding the Muslim world. Where is the Muslim zakah going to; is all the zakah being spent on building mosques and arming dissident groups?
Zakah is special for feed poor people only. Not allowed to used for build a mosque or buy guns for Mujahideen. The right question is : Why Muslim world forget Somalians ?.
I think this question has many answers, and maybe one of those answer is .......because we can find 'Not for re-sale food' in market.

I have read that article. I am sure those WFP staff who sell those food are local staf, and they are Muslims. After I read that article, the only word that I can say is 'Astaghfirullah al adzim'.
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Thinker
06-16-2009, 11:09 AM
Originally Posted by Faizah
Do you ever have anything positive to say? Being balanced. You should try it once in a while.

As a person whose taxes are used to pay for the aid, I am entitled, to ask. I ask the questions because I want to know the answers. I ask the questions because I want Muslims who ‘bury their heads in the sand’ to ask themselves these question.

I want to know why, with all the oil wealth in the hands of Muslims, it necessary for the kafir to feed hungry Muslims? I’d like to know where the aid from Muslim countries goes (presuming they have some kind of aid programme, maybe they don’t)? I’d like to know what the Somalian’s that killed Americans think when they are looking at the sacks of food given by America? I’d like to know why the Muslim countries bordering Somalia don’t send their troops into Somalia to sort the country out or at least stop the piracy? I don’t expect that I can’t get answers to all my questions here but I don’t have access to anyone else who is more able to give me better answers.

I’d like to know why you aren’t asking these questions?
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KAding
06-16-2009, 11:25 AM
Originally Posted by Thinker
Just watched a news report about food aid sent to Somalia to feed refugees is being sold in the markets after being bought from corrupt officials. The report showed mountains of sacks of maize etc all stamped WFP and USfoodaid. Why isn’t the Muslim world (who are also their neighbours) feeding the Somalis?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6499155.ece
I suspect the 'Muslim World' is a partner in the World Food Program, so I'm sure they are helping as well.
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MinAhlilHadeeth
06-16-2009, 11:58 AM
Originally Posted by Thinker
As a person whose taxes are used to pay for the aid, I am entitled, to ask. I ask the questions because I want to know the answers. I ask the questions because I want Muslims who ‘bury their heads in the sand’ to ask themselves these question.

I want to know why, with all the oil wealth in the hands of Muslims, it necessary for the kafir to feed hungry Muslims? I’d like to know where the aid from Muslim countries goes (presuming they have some kind of aid programme, maybe they don’t)? I’d like to know what the Somalian’s that killed Americans think when they are looking at the sacks of food given by America? I’d like to know why the Muslim countries bordering Somalia don’t send their troops into Somalia to sort the country out or at least stop the piracy? I don’t expect that I can’t get answers to all my questions here but I don’t have access to anyone else who is more able to give me better answers.
And what? Muslims don't pay taxes? Do you ask so many questions when your 'tax money pays for meaningless wars? Would it bother you so much if the money was going towards non-Muslims?

I’d like to know why you aren’t asking these questions?
Don't assume anything about me. Just because I don't go posting on forums of other faiths with the sole intention of painting a negative picture of those faiths, that doesn't mean I don't ask questions. Oh wait, maybe it just seems like you do that, but you really have 'pure' intentions?

[/sarcasm]
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Thinker
06-16-2009, 12:14 PM
Originally Posted by KAding
I suspect the 'Muslim World' is a partner in the World Food Program, so I'm sure they are helping as well.
The World Food Programme (WFP) is the food aid branch of the United Nations. WFP operations are funded by donations from world governments, corporations and private donors. In 2008 the Programme received over $5 billion in contributions. All donations are completely voluntary.

Donor contributions for 2008 see . . . . http://www.wfp.org/node/7359


Top 10 donors
1 USA 2,076,430,362
2 Saudi Arabia 503,752,713
3 European Commission 355,434,578
4 Canada 275,392,315
5 UN CERF Common Funds and Agencies 217,578,609
6 Japan 177,898,745
7 United Kingdom 168,960,902
8 Private Donors 144,745,059
9 Netherlands 117,435,477
10 Spain 116,943,829

Amazing fact 1. Some of the donor countries are also recipients of aid.

Amazing fact 2. Out of a list of 98 donors only 11 are Muslim countries, who in total contributed just 11% (if you take out Saudi that drops to 1%) of the total and of those 11 countries many of them received more in aid that they donated.

Amazing fact 3. Some Muslim countries (e.g. Iran) who have received aid have not made any contribution

Amazing fact 4. Although the USA is by far the largest donor they still give through their own US aid programme and in the case of Somalia, I saw as many US aid bags of food as I saw WFP bags.

I'd like to add that I am impressed by the contribution from Saudi Arabia.
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Thinker
06-16-2009, 01:20 PM
Muslim countries given aid in 2008

Country Millions (US$)
Afghanistan . . . . . 135
Azerbaijan . . . . . . 3.8
Bangadesh . . . . . .71.5
Chad . . . . . . . . . .115
Djibouti . . . . . . . .8.3
Egypt . . . . . . . . .8.9
Indonesia . . . . . .40.6
Iran . . . . . . . . . .2.3
Iraq . . . . . . . . . . 46
Palastine . . . . . . .56.7
Pakistan . . . . . . . 37.8
Somalia . . . . . . . .133.3
Sudan . . . . . . . . .750.4
Syria . . . . . . . . . .9.9
Tajikistan . . . . . . .11.6
Yemen . . . . . . . . .14.1
total . . . . . . . . . . .$1,445,200,000

In 2008, Muslim countries donated 11% of the WFP budget and received 28% of the aid.

http://one.wfp.org/appeals/projected...08/Table_1.pdf
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Thinker
06-16-2009, 01:23 PM
Originally Posted by Faizah
And what? Muslims don't pay taxes? Do you ask so many questions when your 'tax money pays for meaningless wars? Would it bother you so much if the money was going towards non-Muslims?
Does that include the war against the (Christian) Serbs to protect the (Muslim) Albanians?
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MinAhlilHadeeth
06-16-2009, 02:22 PM
Originally Posted by Thinker
Does that include the war against the (Christian) Serbs to protect the (Muslim) Albanians?
No, I meant the one that was for WMDs. Oh wait, there weren't any? Oh right, it was actually because SH had connections with Al Qaeda (?!), but we're getting off-topic now. This thread is about your 'concern' for Somalians.
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Maryan0
06-16-2009, 02:33 PM
I believe the fact that many muslim countries are recipients of aid and the fact that the aid they actually mete out is minor has to do with the fact the majority of muslim countires are poor, apart from certain parts of the arab world. and the fact that they are poor has to do with a combination of a history of colonization and at the present corrupt government officials, the same with africa. you will not see many muslims defending the actions of most leaders of the muslim world because i think it's common knowledge that they are corrupt puppet's of western powers.
why certain areas of the muslim world are ignored while others are given priority that is something we as muslims need to ask ourselves because there seems to be a great deal of hypocrisy in that regard.

as to america's help in somalia, most somali's were okay with the americans at that time, it was the canadians and the belgians in somalia who were neo-nazi's that were torturing and killing somalis. but when the americans entered somalia and started to kill somali's indiscriminately the somalis turned on them, they were angry about the other peacekeepers and americans killing them compounded that anger and they took it out on them even the pakistani troops were killed and they were muslims too.

I'd like to know what the Somalian’s that killed Americans think when they are looking at the sacks of food given by America?

with all due respect do not go there, somalis didn't come to america and kill americans it was the other way around. i doubt starving people are philosophying about actions that occured almost twenty years ago.
america has done a great deal of good but wherever america goes it's reputation precedes it, american foreign policy has made america a hated country and american's have no one to blame for that but themselves.

what were your intentions in posting this topic? were you concerned and disgusted by the food aid meant for starving people being sold for profit, or were you just trying to take a dig at muslims, because in a way you do have a point but if the latter was your intention please don't use the situation of the destitute of the world as a facade to get your point across. these are real people.
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Thinker
06-16-2009, 09:27 PM
Originally Posted by Lisa0
what were your intentions in posting this topic? were you concerned and disgusted by the food aid meant for starving people being sold for profit, or were you just trying to take a dig at muslims
First let me say that although I don’t agree with all you have said, what I read is a well balanced post and I thank you for that.

You asked what were my intentions in posting this topic? You ask am I just having a ‘dig at Muslims?’ You are not the first to suggest that my asking difficult or embarrassing question is done specifically to ‘have a dig at Muslims.’ That is not true but I fear that no matter what I say some will believe what they want to believe.

I am not just seeking to ‘have a dig at Muslims;’ I have sincere respect for the majority of the members of this forum.

It happens like this . . .I sit watching the news or a I read a post here that shocks me and I respond with a question. The question I pose is posed for two reasons, first because I really would like to know the answer and second because I would like to know how Muslims respond to the question. This thread typifies that situation, the questions stand by themselves (and I would like to know the answers) but I am also interested in how those like Faizah respond, her response shows that Muslims are discomforted by the question and have no answer and are angry at having no answer; she lets loose her anger on me for asking the question rather than those who created a situation whereby the question had to be asked.

And, I suspect that there’s a few Somali members of this forum who would like to know why the Muslim world has abandoned them.
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The_Prince
06-16-2009, 09:28 PM
Originally Posted by Thinker
So how do Muslims (and (black hawk down) Somalians in particular) reconcile America and the ‘west’ being the great Satans yet it is aid from America and the west that is feeding the Muslim world. Where is the Muslim zakah going to; is all the zakah being spent on building mosques and arming dissident groups?
lol, you kill, colonize, rape, destroy everything, and are the root problem of somalia and africa in general , yet you want praise and think your so saintly now for giving them some food? lol ok.
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Thinker
06-16-2009, 09:32 PM
Originally Posted by The_Prince
you kill, colonize, rape, destroy everything, and are the root problem of somalia and africa in general
I'd be grateful if you could explain to me how or why you think colonization is or was the reason that Somalia or Africa is the mess that it is?
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Maryan0
06-16-2009, 11:47 PM
the question you should be asking is why certain parts of the muslim world are given priority while other's are ignored. kashmir, chechnya, the uighurs, the muslims in thailand, the starving in africa etc. who protests for these people? where is the anger and the tears for these people? like i said before that's a problem and we as muslims people need to recognize it.
and the question above i believe deserves an answer and should have been posed on it's own, without statistics of western vs muslim. posting numbers comparing the aid given to the muslim world and given by muslims is condescending and does not paint the whole picture. the situation of the muslim world needs to be taken into account. the western world today is far ahead of most areas of the most muslim world in regards to infrastructure, the conditions of living, the goverments etc. muslims, jewish, hindu it doesn't matter suffering people are suffering people if your giving aid of the goodness of your hearts there's no need to brag about it and this post does come across that way. if you wanted your question to seem genuine you shouldn't have made it a west vs muslim question and because you did, it cast's doubt's on your intentions.
somalia is not the perfect example because many people muslim countries have actually donated alot of money to the somali government and to rebuild the infrastructure of somalia if not direct aid to the people. particulary countries in the arab league and in that particularly saudi arabia even if their intentions aren't the most pure.
i cannot speak for all somali's but i do not believe somalia is ignored and i do believe that most somali's recognize that the muslim world is weak poor and divided. so no i don't believe we were abandoned, could there be a little more concern? yes, but that's a different issue.

as to the question you posed to bro prince, yes colonization and the history of africa have a very large part to play in the state of africa today, people tend to forget that colonization and slavery did not occur that long ago matter of fact they occured in the very recent past. however somalia's problems were caused for the most part by somalis themselves.

salam
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MinAhlilHadeeth
06-17-2009, 12:05 PM
Originally Posted by Thinker
but I am also interested in how those like Faizah respond, her response shows that Muslims are discomforted by the question and have no answer and are angry at having no answer; she lets loose her anger on me for asking the question rather than those who created a situation whereby the question had to be asked.

And, I suspect that there’s a few Somali members of this forum who would like to know why the Muslim world has abandoned them.
Somali members like myself?

Like I said, don't assume so much. You sound so patronising. You assume so much about Muslims... on this forum and around the world. That's what 'angers', and 'discomfort[s]' Muslims like myself, and that is what portrays your post as negative digs. Why do you think these kind of posts are constantly directed at you, and not some of the other non-Muslims on this forum? Because they never ask questions? Seriously, think about it.
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Thinker
06-17-2009, 01:23 PM
Originally Posted by Lisa0
the question you should be asking is why certain parts of the muslim world are given priority while other's are ignored. kashmir, chechnya, the uighurs, the muslims in thailand, the starving in africa etc. who protests for these people? where is the anger and the tears for these people?
Not sure of the relevance of that statement unless you are suggesting that aid and or assistance is denied the above people because they are unimportant to the ‘west’? With regards the Africa, I have tried and failed to find out how much has been given in aid, this article (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123758895999200083.html ) suggest 50 billion every year. And that’s year after year after year and life for the most is no better now than it was 50 years ago.

Originally Posted by Lisa0
the question above i believe deserves an answer and should have been posed on it's own, without statistics of western vs muslim. posting numbers comparing the aid given to the muslim world and given by muslims is condescending
I didn’t post those stats for that reason, I asked about where Muslim aid money went and someone posted a suggestion that probably went to the WFP. I looked ay their site and was surprised by what I found and thought it might interest others.

Originally Posted by Lisa0
as to the question you posed to bro prince, yes colonization and the history of africa have a very large part to play in the state of africa today,
That has been said here before but is a hollow accusation with little or no evidence to support it. Name me one African country where the general population has become more prosperous after gaining independence. A few years back I spent some time in Zimbabwe and I asked lots of black Zimbabweans about their life ruled as a colony and their life since independence and EVERY one cursed the day they became independent.
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Thinker
06-17-2009, 01:52 PM
Originally Posted by Faizah
Somali members like myself?

Like I said, don't assume so much. You sound so patronising. You assume so much about Muslims... on this forum and around the world. That's what 'angers', and 'discomfort[s]' Muslims like myself, and that is what portrays your post as negative digs. Why do you think these kind of posts are constantly directed at you, and not some of the other non-Muslims on this forum? Because they never ask questions? Seriously, think about it.
You are Somali, excellent; I would much appreciate your views on why Somalia is the mess it is. I know part of Somalia was once a British Protectorate and I read that at that time, although there were difficulties with the Italians and WWII, Somalis made progress towards greater prosperity. It seems to have gone down hill after the British left in 1960 and has got progressively worse since and now in complete free fall.

Is Somalia in the mess it’s in because it was a Protectorate (pseudo colony) or would Somali’s have been better served staying under colonial rule?

See . . . . The world's most utterly failed state
http://www.economist.com/research/ar...ry_id=12342212

Can I know if you are currently living in Somalia?
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Maryan0
06-18-2009, 02:48 AM
Not sure of the relevance of that statement unless you are suggesting that aid and or assistance is denied the above people because they are unimportant to the ‘west’? With regards the Africa, I have tried and failed to find out how much has been given in aid, this article (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123758895999200083.html ) suggest 50 billion every year. And that’s year after year after year and life for the most is no better now than it was 50 years ago
lol that part of my post was in reference to muslims becuase i was refering to muslim people who are struggling that are largely ignored by other muslims. i find it interesting that you would assume i was refering to the west and feel the need to defend the "west" to me.
i do not mean to be rude but i honestly could care less about how much aid is given by the west it is irrelevent because like i said before this shouldn't be a west vs muslim aid topic. that's ver condesending


I didn’t post those stats for that reason, I asked about where Muslim aid money went and someone posted a suggestion that probably went to the WFP. I looked ay their site and was surprised by what I found and thought it might interest others.
i just pointed out how your posts came across, if those were not your intentions then they were not your intentions. you know yourself,I cannot read your mind.


That has been said here before but is a hollow accusation with little or no evidence to support it. Name me one African country where the general population has become more prosperous after gaining independence. A few years back I spent some time in Zimbabwe and I asked lots of black Zimbabweans about their life ruled as a colony and their life since independence and EVERY one cursed the day they became independent.

lol that is exactly the point the majority of african nations have been unable to throw off the effects of colonization. the europeans divided up africa depending on their own needs and when they left they left false borders that has caused many a african nation to attack one another, they divided up ethnic groups leading to the marginalization of certain ethnic groups in their irrespective nations leading this has lead to civil wars military coups etc.
they introduced certain aspects of racism ex. rwanda where the hutu's were lead to believe they were inferior to the tutsi who have what they used to refer to as "caucoid" features leading to the genocide and displacement of the tutsi in 1994. in this particular regard we cannot completely blame our former colonizers for the stupidity exhibited by the people but they have a large part to blame in sowing the seeds of hatred between these 2 groups.

in reference to my own homeland, the europeans divided somali land into british somaliland, italian somaliland, french somaliland etc. they also gave a huge chunk of somali territory ( the ogaden) to the ethiopians and to this day only 2 regions of somalia are united. one part of british somaliland was given to kenya, the other part is still in ethiopia and the other one is it's own independent nation known as djibouti. this carving up of somalia lead to the somali vs ethio war of 1977 with the cubans russians and americans getting involved because at the time it was the cold war. it also has lead to unrest within ethiopia with the people of the ogaden to this day fighting for independence. it has also lead to 2000 somalis being burned alive by kenyan president who felt threatned by the somalis.
there is enmity between sudan and egypt because some sudanese believe egypt was given sudanese land.
even to this day africa is colonized in the sense that even though the colonizers are gone they still have a part to play in our internal affairs not only that but the majority of african leaders are puppets and because they are obedient to the west the west ignores their transgressions.
i was in kenya last year during the post election violence and those elections were defintly rigged because it was obvious to anybody with eyes that the contender for presidency raila odinga won, now i do not know how the world reacted but the amount of anger seen in regards to kibaki stealing the election, causing civil unrest, death and displacement was non- existant but when mugabe did the same thing the press and the world went crazy. now you can call mugabe many things because he has turned into a senile old man who refuses to let go of power ( like most african leaders) but he most definetly was not a puppet and did not let the west tell him what to do and that's why you see such a backlash against him not that he doesn't deserve it but where was the backlash against the majority of african leaders who do the same thing? why are they exempt?
coloniztion like most things had some advantages but even these advantages where built on the sweat and blood of african people. to say that colonization plays no part in the state of africa today is downright ignorant and "hollow" in the extreme. i do not know what kind of africans you met but no sane african would wish for the day's of colonization, i do not think any human being with blood would wish for servitude to another group of people.
in the words of the first president of guinea " we would prefer liberty in poverty than opulance in slavery".
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Maryan0
06-18-2009, 02:56 AM
somalia is in the "mess" it is due to tribalism.period.
we would not have been better served if we were colonized because our history neither began with colonialism neither is our history the civil war of the past 20 yrs, neither do any of these things define us. i do not see why our choices have to be colonization or our state today. every country has gone through a dark period and inshallah we will overcome ours as will the rest of the muslim world. your starting to sound like a supremacist
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Joe98
06-18-2009, 11:22 PM
Originally Posted by Lisa0
i do not mean to be rude but i honestly could care less
"could care less" is am American phrase. They use english incorrectly on a regular basis. Tell us again where you are from?


Originally Posted by Lisa0
i was in kenya last year during the post election violence and those elections were defintly rigged because ...........but where was the backlash…………

We know it was rigged. It was a big news story at the time. But a story “election in Africa rigged” is so common it disappears fast.

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جوري
06-18-2009, 11:41 PM
Originally Posted by Joe98
"could care less" is am American phrase. They use english incorrectly on a regular basis. Tell us again where you are from?

firstly, I'd like to say that I have no desire to partake in this thread.. but why point out syntax and grammar problems of other posters, if you yourself are unable to compose a decipherable statement.. what does 'is am American phrase' denote in this context?



and in closure..

you should consider that one of the most successful immigrants in the united states (according to project MAPS) are Muslims from the middle east.. whatever aid the world gets if it gets it without the vulgar display of charitable deeds, is is from their tax money as well!

consider you, the U.S national debt:

U.S. NATIONAL DEBT CLOCK The Outstanding Public Debt as of 18 Jun 2009 at 11:38:36 PM GMT is:

The estimated population of the United States is 306,392,670
so each citizen's share of this debt is $37,229.50. The National Debt has continued to increase an average of
$3.81 billion per day since September 28, 2007!
Concerned? Then tell Congress and the White House!


and that it is hitting gulf countries to aid in its current economic crisis..


so how about we don't make others painfully aware of our good deeds, lest it come back to bite us else where!




all the best
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Maryan0
06-18-2009, 11:48 PM
"could care less" is am American phrase. They use english incorrectly on a regular basis. Tell us again where you are from?

could care less is english. what exactly does where i'm from have to do with the issue at hand?



We know it was rigged. It was a big news story at the time. But a story “election in Africa rigged” is so common it disappears fast.
funny the mugabe one has still not disappeared, indeed it's funny that kibaki was made nowhere near as much the bad guy as mugabe was. mugabe was blatently accused of rigging the election kibaki was not.
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Joe98
06-19-2009, 01:29 AM
Some correct english phrases:

I don't care.

I could not care less.

Both mean the same thing


Americans say:

I could care less.

It means the same as the above but it is poor grammar. You are mixing a positive "I could care" with a negative '"less"

Whenever I see it I have to read it twice to understand!

It means the Somali person above was taught english by Americans.

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جوري
06-19-2009, 01:44 AM
again, that is relevant how?
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AntiKarateKid
06-19-2009, 01:47 AM
Originally Posted by Thinker
Just watched a news report about food aid sent to Somalia to feed refugees is being sold in the markets after being bought from corrupt officials. The report showed mountains of sacks of maize etc all stamped WFP and USfoodaid. Why isn’t the Muslim world (who are also their neighbours) feeding the Somalis?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6499155.ece
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this concept has been covered hundreds of times. The typical " well if Muslims think they're so guided, why arent they doing X" question.

Do you think by people declaring themselves Muslim, that they automatically act like it?

It may be interesting for you to note the state of the Muslims near the End Times.

Narrated Thawban: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: The people will soon summon one another to attack you as people when eating invite others to share their dish. Someone asked: Will that be because of our small numbers at that time? He replied: No, you will be numerous at that time: but you will be scum and rubbish like that carried down by a torrent, and Allah will take fear of you from the breasts of your enemy and last enervation into your hearts. Someone asked: What is wahn (enervation). Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him): He replied: Love of the world and dislike of death.
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TrueStranger
06-19-2009, 04:16 AM
Originally Posted by Thinker

And, I suspect that there’s a few Somali members of this forum who would like to know why the Muslim world has abandoned them.
Nice thread. The only think i am wondering is why are the Somalis killing each other for almost 19 years? And why are the majority of the Somalis quiet about the daily violence and killing of their people.

Somalis if anything are self-destructive. We are very tolerate and relaxed about our own suffering. Somalis don't care about Somalis, why would anyone else care, Muslims and Non-Muslims :blind:
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Thinker
06-19-2009, 01:42 PM
Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this concept has been covered hundreds of times. The typical " well if Muslims think they're so guided, why arent they doing X" question.

What is wahn (enervation). Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him): He replied: Love of the world and dislike of death
My original question asked why isn’t Somalia’s muslim neghbours doing more to hely mulsim Somalia. I don’t know how you strecched that to “well if Muslims think they're so guided, why aren’t they doing X" question”.

By the bye, you posted the text . . . .”What is wahn (enervation). Apostle of Allah (pbuh): He replied: Love of the world and dislike of death”. Can I know where this comes from and do I take it that you (and all Muslims) advocate that they should love death and dislike the world?
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جوري
06-19-2009, 02:29 PM
where did you come up with 'love death'?
there is a hadith to the contrary actually, you shouldn't wish for death..
having no love for this world doesn't equate with loving death.

BTW charities don't always have to be given through a formal organization.
so technically you don't know whether or not the Muslim neighbors are giving or not to Somalia!

all the best
Reply

Thinker
06-19-2009, 03:22 PM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
where did you come up with 'love death'?
there is a hadith to the contrary actually, you shouldn't wish for death..
having no love for this world doesn't equate with loving death.

BTW charities don't always have to be given through a formal organization.
so technically you don't know whether or not the Muslim neighbors are giving or not to Somalia!

all the best
.”What is wahn (enervation). Apostle of Allah (pbuh): He replied: Love of the world and dislike of death”.

Without explanation I interpreted the text to mean that Muslims would be weakened (enervated) if they loved the world (worldly things) and disliked death (disliked what death brought i.e. it brought nothing rather than paradise. Like I said, without explanation I took it to mean that the narrator was advocating that Muslims should spend their efforts preparing for death and an afterlife of paradise rather than the pursuit of tangible worldly rewards/benefits. I just reversed the quote to encourage an explanation which I presumed would be like that above but of course I don’t know.
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جوري
06-19-2009, 03:28 PM
Reversing the Quote certainly doesn't make it true.. preparation for the afterlife denotes that you must work very hard in this one not that you sit in the mosque all day plotting how to die..

Prophet Muhammad (saws) said," Whoever goes down a path/road searching for Knowledge, Allah will make it easy for him the road to Paradise." [Saheeh Muslim, Vol.3 Hadith No. 99]

It is important that you either consult someone more knowledgeable or ask a scholar to interpret ahadith for you.. certainly lay men aren't fit to do it..

Islam is a package deal, you can't quote at whim to make a point for your cause and neglect the rest or reverse it or whatever strikes your mood for the day..

all the best
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AntiKarateKid
06-21-2009, 06:38 AM
Originally Posted by Thinker
My original question asked why isn’t Somalia’s muslim neghbours doing more to hely mulsim Somalia. I don’t know how you strecched that to “well if Muslims think they're so guided, why aren’t they doing X" question”.

By the bye, you posted the text . . . .”What is wahn (enervation). Apostle of Allah (pbuh): He replied: Love of the world and dislike of death”. Can I know where this comes from and do I take it that you (and all Muslims) advocate that they should love death and dislike the world?
Was that a serious question? Read it again.

It means we should not be afraid of death when doing what is right. And that we shouldn't let wordly allures derail our morality.

I stretched that because why did you have to say "Somalia's MUSLIM neighbors?" Surely just saying neighbors was enough.
Reply

Thinker
06-21-2009, 09:33 AM
Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
Was that a serious question? Read it again.

It means we should not be afraid of death when doing what is right. And that we shouldn't let wordly allures derail our morality.

I stretched that because why did you have to say "Somalia's MUSLIM neighbors?" Surely just saying neighbors was enough.
Because non Muslim neighbours don't purport to follow concepts such as ummah.
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جوري
06-21-2009, 05:37 PM
Originally Posted by Thinker
Because non Muslim neighbours don't purport to follow concepts such as ummah.

You are absolutely right.. they don't!

قَوْلٌ مَّعْرُوفٌ وَمَغْفِرَةٌ خَيْرٌ مِّن صَدَقَةٍ يَتْبَعُهَا أَذًى وَاللّهُ غَنِيٌّ حَلِيمٌ {263}
[Pickthal 2:263] A kind word with forgiveness is better than almsgiving followed by injury. Allah is Absolute, Clement.


all the best
Reply

AHMED_GUREY
06-30-2009, 08:41 PM
The level of ignorance in this topic is disgusting.

To mr Thinker food shortages and famines happen in many parts of the world today and have been a factor of life since ancient times especially in times of war, including Europe as recent as WWII. A peacetime Somalia is very capable of being self sufficient as this was the case before the civil war. It's precisely this food aid that was given to the dictatorship by IMF that destroyed Somalia's agricultural sector, that actually managed to produce surplus which in turn was exported.

When the UN/US entered Somalia in 1993, the famine of 1992 had already ended. The whole operation had little do with helping Somalis but more with the US new role of world police as the Soviet Union had just recently collapsed and this was seen as a great opportunity. The fact that Clinton left so eagerly after the Black Hawk incident only shows you how little the US government wanted to invest in the situation, because seriously you can't enter a country engulfed in a civil war, promise the civilian leaders and societies risking their own lives you will support them against the warlords and then abandoned them all just because of a few misguided characters who are dragging people through the streets, come on people this is war, disturbing stuff like that happen all the time, matter fact there are pictures on the web of American soldiers dragging vietnamese insurgents behind their tanks, how is this any different?

This ''Save the poor people of Somalia'' charade the west likes to promote is simply Kipling's famous whiteman's burden complex. Remittances from the Somali diaspora is 10 times the amount of foreign aid Somalia receives each year. Somalia needs to be left alone and it will do fine.

Your point about the ''muslim world'' abandoning Somalia is a fallacy as there is no real 'muslim world' out there worthy of the name 'Ummah'. Only a collective of countries with muslim majorities and corrupt leaders. There are however more Somalis in this sphere of countries than there are in West and places like Dubai have become Somali business hubs.
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