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AnonymousPoster
06-19-2009, 02:01 PM
salamu 'alaykum,

I found out from a close friend of a sister that she (the sister) has feelings for me. Her close friend told me about it saying you know I want what's best for my friend so I am telling you this so that maybe you will like her and you two can get married.

Ok, so to tell you, I believe I feel attracted to this sister. She wears that hijab and I think she is beautiful. So I tried approaching her. We were classmates,.so I sent her a few e-mails telling her I think she would make a great wife. But the response was a little disappointing........she said I don't think you will like me. Then I e-mailed her back telling her what she wants out of a man, and I gave her details on what I want.
I want a woman that I can be attracted to (that's important), a woman who would be good mother to my children, and would be a good friend to me.
But then again as she was telling me what she wants out of a man, she once again mentionned are you sure you are talking to the right person, maybe you think I'm somebody else in the class we had together, and concludes with I don't think you will like me.

Ok maybe I'm a bit blind here because I find her attractive, but I sense that maybe it's low self-esteem or something.
Dear brothers and sisters, how do I tell this sister that I genuinely want her?
Maybe the best way for her to find out would be when I kiss her on the ear in bed and utter the words I love you, you are so beautiful. But as you know, in Islam we cannot touch each other before marriage.
I know that maybe with some women they need the man to make love to them to be fully convinced that he is really attracted to her, but that's impossible before marriage.

One last thing, I want to tell her that most women by nature are beautiful. You know it's all about how you do your hair, the colour and quality of clothing you wear, etc, But I don't know how much she will believe me.
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Mikayeel
06-20-2009, 09:38 PM
:sl:

Bump
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AntiKarateKid
06-20-2009, 09:43 PM
Approach her through her parents. It takes courage and conviction to do that. And it's the proper Islamic way.

Besides, if you didnt want her and you were approaching her through her parents... well.... you'd better watch out because her parents will probably hunt you down.
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Danah
06-20-2009, 10:00 PM
Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
Approach her through her parents. It takes courage and conviction to do that. And it's the proper Islamic way.

Besides, if you didnt want her and you were approaching her through her parents... well.... you'd better watch out because her parents will probably hunt you down.
^ agree

and for you to go to her parent after make sure that you have 100% made the decision to marry her, that will make her sure that you really want her and you are 100% serious.
Because there is no way that you will approach her from her parent if you are just playing or not sure about your decision

May Allah grant you a good wife
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AlbanianMuslim
06-20-2009, 10:41 PM
ha, i nearly choked on my water when i read the "kiss her on her ear" etc
are you nuts? the girl wears a hijab, she isnt going to want to marry you if you try and do that to her before you two are married
i would lose all respect for you! i would run for the hills, because a man who does that before marriage, is not a man of integrity

do the right thing, approach her parents...that takes courage and respect, when you make that move, she will be more convinced, as time goes on, she will be more and more convinced
she may have low self esteem
or she may just be a step ahead of you and wanting you to prove yourself before you says Yes to you, because true muslim girls dont say Yes to just anybody, you must prove to her that you want her

words are meaningless
actions speak your true intentions for you
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Sampharo
06-21-2009, 07:42 AM
ha, i nearly choked on my water when i read the "kiss her on her ear" etc
are you nuts?
The brother said "in bed", he's obviously talking about when they're married.

AnonymousGender, your feelings of adoration seem genuine and healthy, you need to guard your gaze though you seem to have taken a few too many good looks. Anyway, you sound like you're just not very aware of how women feel.

You NEVER tell a woman that ALL or MOST women are beautiful!! :D You might as well tell her how unspecial she should feel. Look, you've got good intentions, but no experience obviously which is good for a young muslim. I would just say go ahead and ask her hand in marriage from her parents. She just seems shy and self-oblivient to her good points.

Good luck and may God complete it with happiness for you both
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- IqRa -
06-21-2009, 07:51 AM
Brother, your feelings seem genuine. Perform Istikharah and then approach her wali, I think that is the best way InshaAllah.

And Allah and His Messenger Know best.
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Ummu Sufyaan
06-21-2009, 08:24 AM
:sl:
i think you should approach her wali and speak about whatever you/her are worried about through that medium...thats what they are there for.

Approach her through her parents. It takes courage and conviction to do that. And it's the proper Islamic way.

Besides, if you didnt want her and you were approaching her through her parents... well.... you'd better watch out because her parents will probably hunt you down.
agreed...
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AnonymousPoster
06-21-2009, 09:12 PM
Thank you for the tips brothers and sisters. I will tell her I want to meet her father. I will be nervous obviously.

I couldn't resist to comment on AlbanianMuslim's comments. JazakAllah khair Sampharo for making the correct assumption about me.
AlbanianMuslim you know if I wanted to commit zina I wouldn't come to an islamic discussion board and seek advice, would I? Where are your brain cells seriously?
To assume that a muslim would commit a sin is thinking ill of them, which is a disgrace. It doesn't befit a muslim to think that way. It's plain ugly and I hope you take this chance to improve your personality, and maybe mature up.

In any case, I appreciate all the tips from everybody else. :)
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AlbanianMuslim
06-21-2009, 09:17 PM
Originally Posted by AnonymousGender
Thank you for the tips brothers and sisters. I will tell her I want to meet her father. I will be nervous obviously.

I couldn't resist to comment on AlbanianMuslim's comments. JazakAllah khair Sampharo for making the correct assumption about me.
AlbanianMuslim you know if I wanted to commit zina I wouldn't come to an islamic discussion board and seek advice, would I? Where are your brain cells seriously?
To assume that a muslim would commit a sin is thinking ill of them, which is a disgrace. It doesn't befit a muslim to think that way. It's plain ugly and I hope you take this chance to improve your personality, and maybe mature up.

Look whose talking. Dont point a finger when there are 3 pointing right back at you Brother.
What you wrote was inappropriate, even thinking about that is inappropriate.
If you dont like someone pointing that out, dont dish it out.
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Sunni Ninja
06-21-2009, 10:38 PM
most of the advice given is what i was going to say :-[...
it would prove to the sister that you are interested in her when you speak to her father.. lots of courage is needed but inshAllah it will be ok

if your not too sure which i dont think is the case the best thing to do is perform salat ul istehara.. that would be very beneficial.. :thumbs_up
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Ansariyah
06-21-2009, 11:17 PM
wow u seriously need to get married InshaALlah. Drop the whole I like u, I want u, u need to ask her to marry u ...InshaAllah she'll accept it.--)

Originally Posted by AlbanianMuslim
Look whose talking. Dont point a finger when there are 3 pointing right back at you Brother.
What you wrote was inappropriate, even thinking about that is inappropriate.
If you dont like someone pointing that out, dont dish it out.
That bits funny! lol
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'Abd-al Latif
06-21-2009, 11:26 PM
Originally Posted by AlbanianMuslim
Look whose talking. Dont point a finger when there are 3 pointing right back at you Brother.
What you wrote was inappropriate, even thinking about that is inappropriate.
If you dont like someone pointing that out, dont dish it out.
I agree...
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
06-21-2009, 11:29 PM
Originally Posted by AlbanianMuslim
Look whose talking. Dont point a finger when there are 3 pointing right back at you Brother.
What you wrote was inappropriate, even thinking about that is inappropriate.
If you dont like someone pointing that out, dont dish it out.
Personally, I think there is much to be said about husn ad-dhan...
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Ummu Sufyaan
06-22-2009, 01:27 AM
Originally Posted by AlbanianMuslim
Look whose talking. Dont point a finger when there are 3 pointing right back at you Brother.
What you wrote was inappropriate, even thinking about that is inappropriate.
If you dont like someone pointing that out, dont dish it out.
i agree with anon...there was nothing to suggest that he was thinking of zinaa...considering he came here seeking advice on marriage, what has zinaa got to do with it?
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- IqRa -
06-22-2009, 09:13 AM
AlbanianMuslim, please, sort your head out. What did he say wrong? He didn't say he wanted to get a ......... done or something did he?

Maybe the best way for her to find out would be when I kiss her on the ear in bed and utter the words I love you, you are so beautiful.
The brother is just saying how he would express his love after marriage to the sister, if that happens, and only then will the sister understand how much he loves her. I really don't think there is anything wrong with what the brother said, and please stop making silly comments. Thank you.
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crayon
06-22-2009, 09:46 AM
Whatever was said and whatever was understood, let's all get over it and move on, eh? 70 excuses all around, help yourselves.

Brother, just go to her wali, and take it from there. If it's a yes, then great, if not, move on with your life. Simple as that.
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Sahabiyaat
06-22-2009, 10:06 AM
She likes you so much, that she cant believe you like her back :) .and that is really good. mutual attraction is the ultimate sign to take the next step. just cut down on the emails and say whats necessary.make sure you dont fall into haram like flirting through emails, because if it doesnt happen then it will be pretty uncomfortable for you and her. Just keep this in account when speaking to her, for the strict purpose of marriage, which is ofcourse what you intend.

I say go for it :D
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Layla454
06-23-2009, 01:30 PM
Approach her wali brother and take things from there.
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anonymous
06-23-2009, 05:50 PM
:sl:

You've all addressed the fact that he should approach the wali (agreed?) , but the issue about the sister and her low self esteem is one that should not be ignored.

This advice should be acted upon after marriage, if you show her affection that is un-Islamic beforehand it could lead to your downfall.

However, insha'Allah when you do get married, treat her like she is a queen, convincing her in a loving way that her beauty was created by none other than Allah. And did not Allah create humans in the best form? Do not get impatient, as most women do feel insecure, and even more when a man is involved.

This world is becoming more and more vain and shallow, and women in turn (and some men :)) are becoming vulnerable to this.
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AnonymousPoster
06-24-2009, 02:28 AM
I hope I meet each of you in Jannah.
I was reading the replies today and couldn't help but smile. :)
I am honoured to have been given advice by stranger brothers and sisters.
By stranger I mean those that don't know me in person. It's so great.
I will think about this situation more carefully.
I have asked her to ask Allah ta'ala that if I am the right person for her
that He guides her toward me, then follow her heart. If the response is
negative then all praise be to Allah, I will wait for another person.
If the response is positive then I will approach her father, insha'Allah.
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crayon
06-24-2009, 09:07 AM
^MashaAllah, good luck brother, may Allah make things easy for you. InshaAllah whatever is best will happen. :)
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AnonymousPoster
06-25-2009, 03:57 PM
Ok bad news. I need your thoughts on this. Maybe I just don't get it.

So I told her to make istikhara, and since she wears the hijab I told her that
I will need to see what she looks like without the head scarf. I told her
it would be up to her how that's done, whether it's her sending me a picture, or having me meet her parents and she could do that at that time.

She replied by saying I don't think it will work out and that she cannot allow me to see her without the head scarf. She said she will only do that with a man once she is married to him as husband and wife.
Don't get me wrong, I didn't ask to see her in a skirt or something like that. I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to see the hair of the woman you might marry. imsadimsad
Obviously I give up now. Allah is most generous. It's a difficult moment for me, but oh well they say time heals everything. sigh
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Bub
06-25-2009, 04:16 PM
Ok you make her feel uncomfortable and i would feel the same if i was in her shoe so if you really likes her very much you shouldnt give up! You should not asked her to take her habjj off for you.
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Sahabiyaat
06-25-2009, 06:05 PM
mmmm..brother i dnt think u can ask her to remove her hijaab, she is just a potential, not ur wife yet.
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Abdul Fattah
06-25-2009, 06:12 PM
Selam aleykum
You did istakhara right? So that means you asked that if marrying her would be good for you that it be so? So, how can you then, after making that dua still reject her based on not being able to see her hair? If you make istakhara, and everything goes well, then this shouldn't be a reason to stop. And Allah subhana wa t'ala knows best.
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crayon
06-25-2009, 06:20 PM
Originally Posted by AnonymousGender
Obviously I give up now. Allah is most generous. It's a difficult moment for me, but oh well they say time heals everything. sigh
Brother, if you're ready to give up over something as tiny as this, then maybe you're not ready to be married yet?

Yes, knowing whether you're attracted to her or not is important, but I'm pretty sure you can tell the general idea without having to see her hair, can you not?

If you really want to be with this girl you'll move past this small obstacle and continue what you started, if not just say goodbye to her and end it.

-correction
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MSalman
06-25-2009, 06:25 PM
as-salamu 'alaykum

please don't misunderstand me but a sincere concern and advice:

1 - brother, what you are doing is completely wrong. You are not suppose to send private emails to sisters and purpose them. This is a great fitnah which we try to overlook and consider it small. It is amazing that many of us come out as practicing Muslims but fall into this trap of shaytan and may Allah Ta'ala save us all, ameen. Please brother use the valid means to complete half of your imaan.

2 - You think you will get any help from your Lord by following the way of shaytan? The result of istikhara will be pretty much what your conscious want and not guidance from Allah.

3 - Limits of looking at one's fiancée and the ruling on touching her and being alone with her. Is her permission a condition of being allowed to look at her?
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Bub
06-25-2009, 06:54 PM
^ agreed
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Intisar
06-25-2009, 10:26 PM
Originally Posted by AnonymousGender
Ok bad news. I need your thoughts on this. Maybe I just don't get it.

So I told her to make istikhara, and since she wears the hijab I told her that
I will need to see what she looks like without the head scarf. I told her
it would be up to her how that's done, whether it's her sending me a picture, or having me meet her parents and she could do that at that time.

She replied by saying I don't think it will work out and that she cannot allow me to see her without the head scarf. She said she will only do that with a man once she is married to him as husband and wife.
Don't get me wrong, I didn't ask to see her in a skirt or something like that. I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to see the hair of the woman you might marry. imsadimsad
Obviously I give up now. Allah is most generous. It's a difficult moment for me, but oh well they say time heals everything. sigh
:sl: Akhee, she's right, you can't see her hair.

Maybe if she was a niqaabi and you had asked her to show you her face, it'd be a different story, but you can't request that she shows you her hair.

Al-Shaafa’i (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “If he wants to marry a woman, he is not allowed to see her without a headcover. He may look at her face and hands when she is covered, with or without her permission. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): ‘… and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent…’ [al-Noor 24:31]. He said: ‘The face and hands.’” (al-Haawi al-Kabeer, 9/34).

For more read: http://islamqa.com/en/ref/2572/
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Al-Zaara
06-26-2009, 03:17 PM
You sound young and immature. The first post already indicated too much focus on looks and then you think it's nothing wrong to see her hair although she wears the hijab. No one cares what you think, it's haram. You are not one of her mahrams.

You seem to ignore the (way) more important details. Will you be able to support her? Do her parents (and your) even know about your tries? I've seen this over and over again, youngsters try to play marriage-makers. The results are rarely good.

InshaAllah you'll leave this be, or get more serious in your tries by thinking through your motives, needs and possibilities and getting parents involved. All halal inshaAllah.
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- IqRa -
06-26-2009, 03:33 PM
You want to see her hair before marriage? If someone requested that about my sister I'd slap them straight up.
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AnonymousPoster
06-26-2009, 10:55 PM
salam,
I took some time off to reply because I didn't like some of the responses I received, such as saying I am immature (by the way that was coming from an 18 year old....way too young to give advice on marriage).

I did not know seeing a woman's hair for purpose of marriage is not allowed.
I know islamqa.com says is it not, but that is the same website that says women have to cover their face in public, which I don't agree with, and neither do the majority of scholars.

In any case, my point of seeing the hair is you know marriage is a big commitment. Once you agree to marry a person there is no turning back.
When you get someone telling you I don't think you will like me it kind of scares you, doesn't it? I am just a little scared that maybe she has some defect that she knows about that I don't. You get what I mean?
It would be better to know about stuff like that now. I am not saying maybe she has a defect but I'm saying that who knows in this day and age. Anything is possible.

The other thing I want to say is, T.I.A said he would slap the guy who asks to see his sister's hair. I am wondering how many of you got married without EVER seeing their wife's hair before marriage?
I am curious as to how that went. It's not that I'm a shallow person. I don't think I am a shallow person at all. It's natural to wanting to feel attracted to the person you will spend the rest your life with before making such a big commitment.

So please, I want to hear from brothers or sisters who met their soulmate without EVER seeing their hair. Perhaps that could help me down the road.

JazakAllahu khairan.
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Intisar
06-27-2009, 12:17 AM
Originally Posted by AnonymousGender
I did not know seeing a woman's hair for purpose of marriage is not allowed.
I know islamqa.com says is it not, but that is the same website that says women have to cover their face in public, which I don't agree with, and neither do the majority of scholars.
Well generally, it isn't a requirement to cover your face so if the sheikh that runs that website follows the opinion that it is, then there's nothing wrong with that.

But it is clear that the hair is 'awrah, and it is not to be seen by non-mahram men. There's no dispute/difference of opinion on that.

I am wondering how many of you got married without EVER seeing their wife's hair before marriage?
I am curious as to how that went. It's not that I'm a shallow person. I don't think I am a shallow person at all. It's natural to wanting to feel attracted to the person you will spend the rest your life with before making such a big commitment.

So please, I want to hear from brothers or sisters who met their soulmate without EVER seeing their hair. Perhaps that could help me down the road.

JazakAllahu khairan.
I did. And I personally would have felt insulted if I was asked to show my hair.
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Ummu Sufyaan
06-27-2009, 06:06 AM
:sl:
Originally Posted by AnonymousGender
In any case, my point of seeing the hair is you know marriage is a big commitment. Once you agree to marry a person there is no turning back.
true, but you still have other things to take into consideration that will affect your marriage.

When you get someone telling you I don't think you will like me it kind of scares you, doesn't it?
no, it could be low self-esteem...sometimes we think ourselves as something, whereas the reality could be something completely different. alot of people are like that and they only get out of their little shells when there others to help them boost their self esteem by complimenting them, for eg...

I am just a little scared that maybe she has some defect that she knows about that I don't. You get what I mean?
put the trust that she will tell you if she had anything wrong with her.

It would be better to know about stuff like that now. I am not saying maybe she has a defect but I'm saying that who knows in this day and age.
what a ridiculous and degrading thing to say about a potential! you go into these things TRUSTING that person, until and unless there is SOLID bases to suggest otherwise.

Anything is possible.
if you don't trust her now then maybe you should just leave it? you're way too suspicious.

The other thing I want to say is, T.I.A said he would slap the guy who asks to see his sister's hair. I am wondering how many of you got married without EVER seeing their wife's hair before marriage?
sooooo many.

It's natural to wanting to feel attracted to the person you will spend the rest your life with before making such a big commitment.
true, but i personally strongly believe that the face is more than enough to determine whether or not one would be attractive.
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BlissfullyJaded
06-27-2009, 07:03 AM
:sl:

(by the way that was coming from an 18 year old....way too young to give advice on marriage).
Interesting. I had no idea it was part of Islam to discriminate based on age! Or is it that age became a factor because it was an opposing view. I know of many 17 - 18 year old girls who are mature enough and are married alhamdulillah, so if it's a good age to be married, it's quite the okay age to be giving advice. :)

Anyway, if a guy asked to see my hair, I'd tell my dad to send the dude on his way and go look for a non hijaabi girl. You want the character and the deen, but you want her to compromise her character and deen for you. What makes you so special? I fail to see the logic, if your aim was to in fact be logical. :-\

When you get someone telling you I don't think you will like me it kind of scares you, doesn't it? I am just a little scared that maybe she has some defect that she knows about that I don't. You get what I mean?
Perhaps there is a defect in you which she doesn't about either and she's gonna take that risk too, aye? Seeing her hair doesn't mean you'll know about a defect. It just means you'll know the color and length of her hair, quite simple!

She has a lot to be insecure for, without having a "defect!" What if after you see her hair and talk to her more, you decide hey I'm not so into you anymore? What if you'll get engaged and something comes up and the engagement breaks? There's a possibilities which she has every right to be nervous for. Moreover, judging from the fact that you're so hung up on looks more than the things which make up a deep and meaningful relationship, I fully understand her reason to be insecure.

Btw, are you aware of the opinions of the four imaams regarding niqaab?

May Allah you and the girl with that which best for you both and may grant you both protection from harm and pain. Ameen.
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Ansariyah
06-27-2009, 09:58 AM
Originally Posted by AnonymousGender
salam,
I took some time off to reply because I didn't like some of the responses I received, such as saying I am immature (by the way that was coming from an 18 year old....way too young to give advice on marriage).

I did not know seeing a woman's hair for purpose of marriage is not allowed.
I know islamqa.com says is it not, but that is the same website that says women have to cover their face in public, which I don't agree with, and neither do the majority of scholars.

In any case, my point of seeing the hair is you know marriage is a big commitment. Once you agree to marry a person there is no turning back.
When you get someone telling you I don't think you will like me it kind of scares you, doesn't it? I am just a little scared that maybe she has some defect that she knows about that I don't. You get what I mean?
It would be better to know about stuff like that now. I am not saying maybe she has a defect but I'm saying that who knows in this day and age. Anything is possible.

The other thing I want to say is, T.I.A said he would slap the guy who asks to see his sister's hair. I am wondering how many of you got married without EVER seeing their wife's hair before marriage?
I am curious as to how that went. It's not that I'm a shallow person. I don't think I am a shallow person at all. It's natural to wanting to feel attracted to the person you will spend the rest your life with before making such a big commitment.

So please, I want to hear from brothers or sisters who met their soulmate without EVER seeing their hair. Perhaps that could help me down the road.

JazakAllahu khairan.
u are allowed to look at her wen ur asking for her hand, but not her hair. Can't u tell if u are attracted to her wit her hijab on? It's perfectly alright to have a preference but is urs to do wit hair? U can't see her hair, she's not ur wife. Sabr?

Wat about ur defects tho....? How wud u feel is she asked to see u topless?

Girls have awrah (hair is one of them), so u are basically asking her to show u her awrah...Whrs ur gheerah?! She's a Muslimah, don't ask her to disobey Allah for ur impatience.
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maryam87
06-29-2009, 02:00 AM
I personally dont know why everyones against the brother he is only asking for advice!

I can possibly understand why you want to see how she looks without the hijab. But you do have to understand its not possible for every brother who comes along and sees a girl she takes the hijab off so that he can make sure there is no defects. Its obviously not logical +o(

The way this goes is that you get your mother to go over the sisters house when the sisters mother is there, and have like a cup of tea hence the sister wouldnt need to wear her hijab and your mother can make the judgement rather a non-mahram.

Hope that helps:thumbs_up
Best of luck
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Ali_008
06-29-2009, 02:29 AM
:sl:
^^ Well, the sister's advice sounds really good. And to give something from the brother's side, I think man you're very fortunate to have found and fallen in love with a girl who is so pious. Every man would wish for a wife who is so devout and Consequently, her devotion will also be evident in her duties as a wife, a mother, a daughter-in-law, a sister-in-law and an ideal for the family.
And this desire of seeing her hair might be a waswaas of the shaytaan. Today you want to see her hair, tomorrow it'll be her hands, the day after it'll switch to her legs and this will go on until finally she starts believing that you're not the one for her and she'll be gone. Trust me, you wouldn't want that to happen, would you? If you're so scared about some defect then take sister maryam87's advice or ask her directly whether there's anything she's hiding from you and don't get surprised if she asks that question back to you. Be honest and you'll get an honest reply, Inshallah.
May Allah bless both of you and this potential marriage
:w:
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Ummu Sufyaan
06-29-2009, 12:59 PM
Originally Posted by maryam87
The way this goes is that you get your mother to go over the sisters house when the sisters mother is there, and have like a cup of tea hence the sister wouldnt need to wear her hijab and your mother can make the judgement rather a non-mahram.
i have NEVER understood why his mother/sisters have to see whether the girl is attractive or not...i dont get why she has to be attractive in thier eyes its not like they're the ones marrying her!!!
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S_87
06-29-2009, 01:05 PM
:sl:

the hair issue- as far as i recall there was a difference of opinion on this and some scholars are of the opinion that its allowed for a man to see the womans hair. im sure i read this in sheikh jibalis book on marriage, will recheck and confirm inshaAllah :?
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MO783
06-29-2009, 01:22 PM
Originally Posted by T.I.A
Brother, your feelings seem genuine. Perform Istikharah and then approach her wali, I think that is the best way InshaAllah.

And Allah and His Messenger Know best.
I agree
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nebula
06-29-2009, 01:26 PM
What is Permissable for the Suitor to See of the Woman Before the Wedding
Question:

If a man makes a proposal of marriage to a young woman, is it obligatory for him to see her? Also, is it correct for the young woman to uncover her hair and to reveal her beauty more for her fiancé? Advise us, and may Allaah benefit you.
Answer:

There is no objection, but it is not obligatory. Rather, it is preferred for him to see her, and for her to see him. This is because the Prophet sallallaahu alayhi was salaam ordered the suitor to look at her, because that is more likely to produce harmony between them, so if she uncovers her face, hands and head for him, there is no objection, according to the most correct opinion.

Some of the scholars said that it is sufficient for him to see her face and hands, but the most correct opinion is that there is no objection to him seeing her head, face, hands and feet, according to the aforementioned Hadeeth. But it is not permissible for him to do so, while being alone with her; rather, her father, her brother or another must be present with her. This is because the Prophet sallallaahu alayhi was salaam said:

‘A man may not be secluded with a woman except with a Mahram.’ Muslim no. 1341

He sallallaahu alayhi was salaam also said:

‘A man should not be alone with a woman, for verily Satan makes a third.’ At-Tirmithi no. 2165 and Ahmad 1/18.

Narrated by Imaam Muslim with an authentic chain of narrators, on the authority of ‘Umar, may Allaah be pleased with him.

Shaykh `Abdul-`Azeez Bin Baz
Fatawa Islamiyyah, Darussalam, volume 5, pages 207/208

source
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nebula
06-29-2009, 01:28 PM
Looking at other than the face and hands of the woman he wishes to propose to

Question: Is it permissible for a man to look at other than the face and hands of the woman he wishes to propose to, such as looking at her hair and her neck?

Response: That which is apparent to me, and Allaah knows best, is that this is permissible without a previous agreement. He (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam) said that which means:

((If anyone’s heart settles on proposing to a woman, then he can look at that which will lead him to marry her)), [Translators note: This is the hadeeth of Jaabir ibn ‘Abdillaah (radhi-yallaahu 'anhu) who said: The Messenger of Allaah (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam) said:

((If any of you has proposed to a woman, and if he is able to look at that which will lead him to marry her, then he should do so))]

As regards a previous agreement, then it is not permissible to look at more than the face and hands.

Shaykh al-Albaanee
Fataawa Muhimmah li-Nisaa. al-Ummah – Page 138

source
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true believer
06-30-2009, 10:45 PM
i am gonna be blunt here bro, wth r u doing? ur a MUSLIM man, dnt be so....silly. in islam ur not even supposed to LOOK at a woman twice. this girl already sounds dodgy cos she be freemixng wiz u in da first place. anyway u dnt have to sleep wiz someone to commit zina. what ur doin is zina. stop now b4 its too late n REPENT. if u r serious..BE A MAN ABOUT IT...just go thro her parents PROPERLY n ask for marriage. ur lil thing is already kinda doomed cos of da way u started it...but ur life. stop deluding urself...wat ur doin is wrong, stop using potenal marriage as an excuse....it doesnt make it right. just repent for what u have done n good luck. no one's perfect, just try to correct what you've done n may allah forgive u n all of us for our sins ameen
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HopeFul
06-30-2009, 11:05 PM
Assalmaolaikum,

why specifically hair? if you can see her face and her body ( as in you can see her functioning ok walking, taking etc) then why hair?

I married my husband without him seeing my hair and after once seeing my face he didnt even get to see that again until I went to his home and I am not a saudi arab or from a backward family, Alhamdolillah from a well educated family.

More over age is not a maturaity factor, by 18 I had a son and looked after a home and husband all on my own and gave career advice to my husband, Alhamdolillah.

The only defect with her hair could be that shes bald.

I dont believe in people trying to fix things themselves it may not even work out. When you involve your parents and your mother goes to see the sister, she'll definately be able to see her more. Thats how it happens in our culture, the mother goes and sees the girl in normal home clothes without hijab but otherwise covered properly. You would have to take her word for it. She'll tell you ALl about her hair when she comes back and has seen her. I would've beeen very insulted if my husband had even spoken to me about marriage himself, let alone asking me about showing hair!!:d seriously bro, send your parents!

If someone is thinking about marrying someone, they are allowed to look at them, they are not given the right to see her awra, hair is apart of awra ( for a woman infront of non mehrams) regardless of conditions ( whether you are thinking of marrying her or not doesnt lift the "ban"), it makes no sense at all.

If her face is pretty then you would have to take a chance with the rest of her body if you ARE beauty conscious. People normally do that in chaste societies, take a chance on whatever they cant see/know.

If you are ok to take a chance on the rest of her body then why not hair? i mean any problem with hair wont be too big right?

May Allah solve your problems and give you some sense too. You may be losing a good sister because of your inconsiderate demands.

:w:
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abdullah_001
06-30-2009, 11:19 PM
:sl:
Maybe the best way for her to find out would be when I kiss her on the ear in bed and utter the words I love you, you are so beautiful. But as you know, in Islam we cannot touch each other before marriage.
I'm sorry to say this but your actions and your words seem to be going in different directions. You should never start out with something bad and expect a good outcome out of it.

Have patience, pray isthikhara and talk to her parents. Inshallah everything will work out. Inshallah
:w:
Reply

AnonymousPoster
07-01-2009, 01:23 AM
:salamext:


Some people deny that you care for them because they don't want to hurt you, and want to reject [you] at the same time without wanting to put the blame on themselves.

It's natural, especially if they feel they're being forced to accept someone, who they don't want.


People usually like a challenge of getting what they can't get, not what they're forced to accept.



Allahu a'lam
Reply

M..x
07-02-2009, 08:47 PM
Hmm.. Bro, you du know that women have their flaws aswell? Your focus is far too much on her looks, & if you're so attracted to her 'natural' beuaty, then surley how her hair looks like wouldnt affect how much you 'love her', would it? If her hairs like bushy and electrocuted, you gun' love her any less? Would all that other beauty not show? Women are a gift bro =) Its not always about her looking her best for you. Sorry buh thats what I made out of your posts. Though I can say you did tha right thing by not committing zinaa & any accusations made at you for duin so are pathetic. I hope this gal see's she is worth more than she thinks & I hope you tell her that, but obvioasly not ina flirty disgusting way =). I hope it works ou for you dude. Salaam
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M..x
07-02-2009, 08:50 PM
P.S Dun't put other people down simply because of their age. Its not right either that you think someone who is cupla years younger cannot give their opinion simply because of their age. Your on a public forum, so accept that you'll recieve comments from all age ranges & if its advice your after... Accept it =)
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