i am a born again, evangelical christian

[Adonai88]

hello

my name is Angelo. I am swiss, and live over ten years in Brazil. I am a born again evangelical christian. I am open to talk with everyone, that would like to know better my faith. I think, there exist many pre - judgements, that might be clarified.
I am not disposed and interested to convert anybody here. This is a personal decision. I am just here to testify my faith to anyone, that would like to know more and understand it better. i do not want to disrespect your faith, philosophy and convictions, and expect the same from you. So who has pre judgements , and has no interest, to change it, i am asking at least to respect my faith.

So now to my first question : what is the reason that lead you to become a muslim ?

Angelo

[AntiKarateKid]

Many things make me want to stay Muslim. Lets start with the Quran. I just love listening to it! It recharges my faith everytime and brings me closer to Allah. To this day no one has been able to make something like it.

Take a look yourself. Its Surah Maryam or Chapter Mary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwzxuCXZGAs

[Woodrow]

hello

my name is Angelo. I am swiss, and live over ten years in Brazil. I am a born again evangelical christian. I am open to talk with everyone, that would like to know better my faith. I think, there exist many pre - judgements, that might be clarified.
I am not disposed and interested to convert anybody here. This is a personal decision. I am just here to testify my faith to anyone, that would like to know more and understand it better. i do not want to disrespect your faith, philosophy and convictions, and expect the same from you. So who has pre judgements , and has no interest, to change it, i am asking at least to respect my faith.

So now to my first question : what is the reason that lead you to become a muslim ?

Angelo

Because I was once a born again Evangelical Christian and came to love Jesus(as) for the true reason of who he is and not for the falsehoods I was taught about him.

Like many reverts I firmly believe it is the words of Jesus(as) that led me to Islam. Islam fulfilled my understanding of what Jesus(as) taught.

[alcurad]

hello Angelo :)

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[Zafran]

Salaam

Quran and the grace of Allah swt.

peace

ps - welcome to the forum- hope you find this site educational.

[roohani.doctor]

Welcome. :D

[lifeguard]

Hi Angelo,

I was born in a Muslim house. But as every human being I was blessed the right by Allah swt to decide and see and think for myself abt what is right what is wrong. Look around me look at different religions beliefs thoughts practices.

And after all these years I'm happy to be a Muslim and remain one. For Allah is the One True God of all mankind. Reason being the belief in my heart of the Quran and everything written in it to be the True word of Allah.

If it's ok maybe you can answer my question that what do you mean by born again evangelical christian?

[Tony]

Welcome Angelo, I used to be a born again evandelical christian, I spent time living ina christian commune called Jesus Army (baptist) we would go outmarching etc and evangilising outside rough night clubs with a 7 ft wooden cross etc, had some some really good rallies too. I loved the sense of brotherhood, but I never felt the inner peace and logical belif that I have since becoming Muslim. And personally my prayers have only been answered since being muslim, I beleive absolutly in the Creator and as a matter of logic initially I realised it could only be Allah Alone. I hope you enjoy your time on the forum and learn whatever it is you came herefor.

[Adonai88]

Many things make me want to stay Muslim. Lets start with the Quran. I just love listening to it! It recharges my faith everytime and brings me closer to Allah.

Your love to listen to it, does not make it true ? What did convince you, the Quran is the true holy book, telling you all spiritual truth ?

I also love to see James Bond films. That doesnt meen James Bond is a true Agent.

[Adonai88]

Because I was once a born again Evangelical Christian and came to love Jesus(as) for the true reason of who he is and not for the falsehoods I was taught about him.

Like many reverts I firmly believe it is the words of Jesus(as) that led me to Islam. Islam fulfilled my understanding of what Jesus(as) taught.

Why do you believe, what Islam tells you about Jesus, is true, and what the New Testament tells us , is not ? The Quran sas at least six centuries after Jesus ressurrected. No writer of the Quran was a eyewitness of Jesus. The writers of the gospels were his disciples. They saw what Jesus did and said, and were therefor the right persons to testify to us about him.

[Adonai88]

Hi Angelo,

I was born in a Muslim house. But as every human being I was blessed the right by Allah swt to decide and see and think for myself abt what is right what is wrong. Look around me look at different religions beliefs thoughts practices.

And after all these years I'm happy to be a Muslim and remain one. For Allah is the One True God of all mankind. Reason being the belief in my heart of the Quran and everything written in it to be the True word of Allah.

If it's ok maybe you can answer my question that what do you mean by born again evangelical christian?

here a testimony of a muslim, and how he became a born again christian, how it happened :

Rebirth: After renouncing Islam and rejected all that linked me to it, I confessed my sin and I received Christ as my only Savior, Lord and God. This time my confession was with faith and total confidence in Jesus. Immediately, I was baptized. When I went into the water, it symbolized my death to my sin, which became buried with Christ. Coming out of the water symbolized my resurrection into a new life, a life in Christ Jesus. During the process we used only my nickname, because my old name was included in all the Muslim things I renounced. Then my pastor prayed for me, for the filling with the Holy Spirit. This time I was truly baptized with faith in Christ and surrendered to Him. I was literally and spiritually born again.

"What does it mean to be a born again Christian?"

[Adonai88]

and logical belif that I have since becoming Muslim.

what do you think is more logic in the muslim belief ?

[lifeguard]

here a testimony of a muslim, and how he became a born again christian, how it happened :

Rebirth: After renouncing Islam and rejected all that linked me to it, I confessed my sin and I received Christ as my only Savior, Lord and God. This time my confession was with faith and total confidence in Jesus. Immediately, I was baptized. When I went into the water, it symbolized my death to my sin, which became buried with Christ. Coming out of the water symbolized my resurrection into a new life, a life in Christ Jesus. During the process we used only my nickname, because my old name was included in all the Muslim things I renounced. Then my pastor prayed for me, for the filling with the Holy Spirit. This time I was truly baptized with faith in Christ and surrendered to Him. I was literally and spiritually born again.

"What does it mean to be a born again Christian?"

Thanks for the input..That was something i never knew before...in Islam i think we would call that a revert Muslim...

[Tony]

what do you think is more logic in the muslim belief ?

God is umlike any other, he begets not and was unbegotten. The line of prophets (pbut) all worshipped one God, and Muhammad (pbuh) redirected where perversions occurred. I gave the subject a lot of thought, and I have to say that being bought up in a christian culture it was difficult time giving up the idea of Jesus as son of God, but the conclussion I came to was that Allah would not have a son,, I cannot see how a God would need to eat, sleep and cry, and how he would have felt foresaken by himself at the end

[The_Prince]

Why do you believe, what Islam tells you about Jesus, is true, and what the New Testament tells us , is not ? The Quran sas at least six centuries after Jesus ressurrected. No writer of the Quran was a eyewitness of Jesus. The writers of the gospels were his disciples. They saw what Jesus did and said, and were therefor the right persons to testify to us about him.

incorrect, your new testament is not written by the eyewitness, if i were you i would stop being an evangelical, since your brainwashed into believing what you just wrote.

tell me, was luke a disciple of Jesus, an eyewitness???????????

let us also play your game, your NT often shows that the disciples were confused and didnt even understand what Jesus was saying, often times the Gospels show Jesus rebuking them and even going as far as saying how long does he have to be with these people!!!!!!!!!!!! so you cant have your cake and eat it, sorry, if anything, these disciples cant be trusted at all.

[The_Prince]

also dont be fooled by this evangelical, hes already posting links from answering-islam, shows you from where this guy is comming from. he starts his message with deceit saying i just wannaaaaa tell you about my belief bla bla bla not to convert you, but its quite obvious he is here to convert, lol this is one of the most common missionary tricks, they come acting like they just want a good oleeeeeeeeeeee conversation then all of a sudden you see their conversation getting into debate style and attacks as this person is doing. dont be fooled.

[Tony]

also dont be fooled by this evangelical, hes already posting links from answering-islam, shows you from where this guy is comming from. he starts his message with deceit saying i just wannaaaaa tell you about my belief bla bla bla not to convert you, but its quite obvious he is here to convert, lol this is one of the most common missionary tricks, they come acting like they just want a good oleeeeeeeeeeee conversation then all of a sudden you see their conversation getting into debate style and attacks as this person is doing. dont be fooled.

its cool bro, bring it on :D

[The_Prince]

i thought werent here to convert people, so why are you posting convert stories to Christianity from answerig-Islam? dangggggggg at least be honest, why come under the disguise of deceit, why cant you just be open and tell people you do want to convert them.

[The_Prince]

its cool bro, bring it on :D

indeed, i dont mind a debate, i love debates, but i dont like it when these missionaries come pretending that they dont want a debate, and just want to explain their beliefs, and listen to ours.

[The_Prince]

ok i have a Q to this evangelical, this is an issue that bugs me alot. mr evangelical do you believe that God, the almighty God came out of a womb??? the region where intercourse and other bodily functions occur???? do you believe God, came out covered in blood crying and so forth??? plz do let us know. :)

[lifeguard]

nice question..i wuz kinda gonna ask him how can Jesus be God and son of God both at the same time...but urs will really want him to purify his blood..ehehe

[Zafran]

salaam

wow this guy is typical born again extremist - he just wants to debate.

[AntiKarateKid]

Your love to listen to it, does not make it true ? What did convince you, the Quran is the true holy book, telling you all spiritual truth ?

I also love to see James Bond films. That doesnt meen James Bond is a true Agent.

People were converted by just hearing the Quran. It is our timeless miracle for all generations. It is a literary masterpiece that no human being has ever been able to match and has remained unchanged throughout time. And when you understand it in Arabic and hear it, even Arab Christians are deeply moved by it. You don't need to know how to sing or be in a Choir, the words of the Quran hold power without these external things. Many people have tried to match it but have failed.

This is a miracle which convinces me. It is just one of many things in Islam which convince me.

[Adonai88]

God is umlike any other, he begets not and was unbegotten. The line of prophets (pbut) all worshipped one God, and Muhammad (pbuh) redirected where perversions occurred.

what perversions ?

I gave the subject a lot of thought, and I have to say that being bought up in a christian culture it was difficult time giving up the idea of Jesus as son of God, but the conclussion I came to was that Allah would not have a son,, I cannot see how a God would need to eat, sleep and cry, and how he would have felt foresaken by himself at the end

upon what criteria did you come to the conclusion, God had no son ? Who gave you this revelation, and for what reason did you give more credit to it, than to the bible ? btw. before the quran was written, how did Allah be known ?

[AntiKarateKid]

Another thing to remember is that the belief in Jesus' divinity was not established until more than two centuries after his death. I find this extremely suspect because since when did any revelation of God be so confusing that it took that long for people to realize SUCH A BIG point of their faith. Moroever the decision was made by the clergy and all competing bibles and Christian sects were brutally repressed and many people were killed.

Id like to hear your response to this. And also, can you give me something Jesus DID that made him seem godlike. Any miracles or etc etc?

[Zafran]

comming form a guys whos book wasnt canonized until 300 AD - 300 years after christ and some books are even written by people who didnt even know christ eg Paul

God does not begat beacsue its an animal act - a low act - It does not befit the majesty of God - ask the Jews they will tell your blasphemy.

[Adonai88]

incorrect, your new testament is not written by the eyewitness, if i were you i would stop being an evangelical, since your brainwashed into believing what you just wrote.

what evidence do you have, to make this assertion ?

tell me, was luke a disciple of Jesus, an eyewitness???????????

no, but John, matthew, and markus were. Was muhammed a eyewitness of jesus ? is it more probable, muhammed were, or the apostles mentioned before ? who therefore deserves more credibility ?

let us also play your game, your NT often shows that the disciples were confused and didnt even understand what Jesus was saying, often times the Gospels show Jesus rebuking them and even going as far as saying how long does he have to be with these people!!!!!!!!!!!! so you cant have your cake and eat it, sorry, if anything, these disciples cant be trusted at all.

you forget, that the gospels were written, after Jesus ressurrected, and the apostles received the holy spirit. And the holy spirit made them remember all, what Jesus did, and said, and it gave the disciples a profound spiritual discernment, they had not before pentecost. Before critizise, it might be important to have a minimum of knowledge of the critizised subject.

[Zafran]

what evidence do you have, to make this assertion ?

PAUL! never met Jesus pbuh when he was alive.

no, but John, matthew, and markus were. Was muhammed a eyewitness of jesus ? is it more probable, muhammed were, or the apostles mentioned before ? who therefore deserves more credibility ?

Ah but John , mark matthew and paul are not prophets didnt clalim to be - prophet Muhammad pbuh is a prophet of God.

many scholars are even questioning who wrote John, mark and matthew anyway.

[Adonai88]

also dont be fooled by this evangelical, hes already posting links from answering-islam, shows you from where this guy is comming from. he starts his message with deceit saying i just wannaaaaa tell you about my belief bla bla bla not to convert you, but its quite obvious he is here to convert, lol this is one of the most common missionary tricks, they come acting like they just want a good oleeeeeeeeeeee conversation then all of a sudden you see their conversation getting into debate style and attacks as this person is doing. dont be fooled.

each one has to convert by its own. its not my business to try to convert others....

[AntiKarateKid]

Well, Luke is said to have been one of Paul’s travel companions, “the beloved” physician, and thus would not have been an eyewitness to Jesus’ ministry. A late 2nd century list of New Testament books states unequivocally that Luke did not know Jesus.


And also, John Mark (or John called Mark), purported author of the Gospel of Mark, is mentioned three times in the Bible, in Acts 12:12, 15:37 and 1 Peter 5:13. He is associated with Peter and Paul, and is thought to have been their companion. Eusebius’s Church History says that Mark wrote his gospel as Peter’s interpreter, supposedly writing it in Rome as a summary of Peter’s preaching. If this is true, then Mark himself is not the eyewitness, but rather Peter, one of the Twelve named disciples.

[AntiKarateKid]

each one has to convert by its own. its not my business to try to convert others....

Please reply to my 2 posts as well.

[Adonai88]

People were converted by just hearing the Quran. It is our timeless miracle for all generations. It is a literary masterpiece that no human being has ever been able to match and has remained unchanged throughout time. And when you understand it in Arabic and hear it, even Arab Christians are deeply moved by it. You don't need to know how to sing or be in a Choir, the words of the Quran hold power without these external things. Many people have tried to match it but have failed.

This is a miracle which convinces me. It is just one of many things in Islam which convince me.

this is very subjective. How can we test if what the Quran says , is true ? Muhammad claims to be a prophet of God. We are commanded to test prophets to determine whether they are from God. Muhammad may be a true prophet or he may be a false prophet. We must test him to see which he is. Are you prepared to test Muhammad as God has commanded?

How do we test a prophet? We test a prophet by examining his prophecy to see whether it is true. The prophecy of Muhammad is recorded in the Quran so we need to test what the Quran says to see whether Muhammad is a true prophet.

The Qur'an makes three claims as to why Muhammad is a true prophet. These claims are "testable". These claims are:

The Qur'an confirms the teaching of the Jewish and Christian scriptures.
The Qur'an makes clearer the teaching of the Jewish and Christian scriptures.
Muhammad is foretold in the Jewish and Christian scriptures.

Son of God

In the Bible there is a lot of teaching about the "Son of God". This teaching is quite clear. The Qur'an also has much to say about the "Son of God", however it does not confirm or make clearer the Bible's teaching, instead it misunderstands and actually confuses what the Bible clearly taught.

What does the Bible say about the "Son of God"?

The phrase, "Son of God" is a title that is used in the Bible to denote someone's relationship to God. This relationship involves the person, or people, receiving promises from God that they will receive something from him. In this way they are an heir to God as they have been promised and inheritance from him. Now since a son is the heir to his father so too those who have received promises from God are called "sons" of God. In the book of Exodus we see that the whole nation of Israel is called God's "son".

The LORD said to Moses, "When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. ... Then say to Pharaoh, `This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son, and I told you, "Let my son go, so he may worship me." But you refused to let him go; so I will kill your firstborn son.'" (Exodus 4:21-23, NIV)

When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son. (Hosea 11:1, NIV)

Later in Israel's history God appointed David as Israel's king. The title of "Son" that had been applied to Israel was now also applied to her king as he was the head of the nation and had received a special promise from God. Thus every king of Israel had the title of "Son" of God:

The LORD declares to you (David) that the LORD himself will establish a house for you: When your days are over and you rest with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, who will come from your own body, and I will establish his kingdom. He is the one who will build a house for my Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be his father, and he will be my son. (2 Samuel 7:11-14, NIV)
The king of Israel also had another title, the title of Messiah. (The Greek translation of the word Messiah is Christ.) The word Messiah comes from the Hebrew word "to anoint". Every king of Israel was anointed to the position of king, and so every king was The Anointed or the Messiah. We see this happen when Saul was anointed king over Israel:

Then Samuel took a flask of oil and poured it on Saul's head and kissed him, saying, "Has not the LORD anointed you leader over his inheritance? (1 Samuel 10:1, NIV)
What have we seen so far? We have seen that every king of Israel had the titles of Son of God and Messiah/Christ. Thus the Son of God was the Messiah/Christ and the Messiah/Christ was the Son of God. This connection between the two titles was clearly understood at the time of Jesus for we see the two titles used together:

When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?" ... Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ (Messiah), the Son of the living God." (Matthew 16:13-16, NIV)

Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, "Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?" But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God." "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied.(Matthew 26:62-64, NIV)

Hopefully now you can understand what the Bible means when it talks about the Son of God. It is not talking about God having sex and producing a baby. The title Son of God does not even imply divinity in the person for, as we have seen, the nation of Israel and her king were call God's son. Jesus is the true fulfillment of the Son of God. He is the true son of David, the true Israel. He is the true son who received the inheritance from his Father God. This inheritance was the kingdom of God itself.

Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. (Matthew 28:18, NIV)
Now does the Qur'an make clearer the Bible's teaching about the "Son of God"? The answer is no! In fact the Qur'an misunderstands and confuses this teaching from the Bible. Throughout the Qur'an it denies that Jesus is the Son of God yet mistakenly still calls him the Messiah.

The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was no more than God's apostle and his Word which He cast to Mary (Sura 4:171, Dawood).

The Jews say, Ezra is the "Son of God"; the Christians say, "The Messiah is the Son of God." That is the utterance of there mouths, conforming with the unbelievers before them. God assail them! How they are perverted. (Sura 9:30, Arberry)

They say: "God has begotten a son" God forbid! (Sura 10:68, Dawood)

The Qur'an shows no understanding of the meaning of the title "Son of God". In the Qur'an it means nothing more than to imply that God had sex, and as we have seen from the Bible this is not what the title means. In the Qur'an Jesus is given the title of Messiah and yet denied the title of the Son of God; the Bible clearly teaches that both of these titles go together.

Again we see that what was clearly taught in the Bible is confused by the Qur'an and has led to confusion and disagreements between Muslims and Christians. The Qur'an claims to make clearer the teaching of the Bible but this claim is false. It does not make clearer the Bible's teaching, in fact it only confuses it.

[Ramadhan]

I was born in a muslim family and learnt and practiced all obligations as a muslim.
But then I strayed, and at a time was even more of an agnostic.
I learned other religions, but the other religions just did not make sense to me because they left too many questions unanswered and too contradictory.
Through trials and tribulations of life, I automatically came back to my roots, and re-learned intensively Islam, Alhamdulillah.
My academic background is chemical engineering, so I am used to think in logical manner and through my studies of Qur'an, I concluded that Islam is the most logical choice and it makes the most sense.

[Andromeda]

The reason why Christians feel they must believe that Christ is Son of God is to claim that God so loved the world He sacrificed His only son.

If people started thinking that Jesus was a revolutionary who ended up executed for his views, it is not quite so romantic or potent a story, is it?

It was a spin later Christians put on to explain Christ's ignominious end.

[Hyuio]

hello

my name is Angelo. I am swiss, and live over ten years in Brazil. I am a born again evangelical christian. I am open to talk with everyone, that would like to know better my faith. I think, there exist many pre - judgements, that might be clarified.
I am not disposed and interested to convert anybody here. This is a personal decision. I am just here to testify my faith to anyone, that would like to know more and understand it better. i do not want to disrespect your faith, philosophy and convictions, and expect the same from you. So who has pre judgements , and has no interest, to change it, i am asking at least to respect my faith.

So now to my first question : what is the reason that lead you to become a muslim ?

Angelo

I'm not a muslim, I'm an atheist. What make you believe in christian god?
Why do you worship a being that has no evidence for its existance? (incidently the bible is not evidence, such as the quran is not evidence, the book of mormon is not evidence or vedic scripture is not evidence)

[AntiKarateKid]

this is very subjective. How can we test if what the Quran says , is true ? Muhammad claims to be a prophet of God. We are commanded to test prophets to determine whether they are from God. Muhammad may be a true prophet or he may be a false prophet. We must test him to see which he is. Are you prepared to test Muhammad as God has commanded?

How do we test a prophet? We test a prophet by examining his prophecy to see whether it is true. The prophecy of Muhammad is recorded in the Quran so we need to test what the Quran says to see whether Muhammad is a true prophet.

The Qur'an makes three claims as to why Muhammad is a true prophet. These claims are "testable". These claims are:

The Qur'an confirms the teaching of the Jewish and Christian scriptures.
The Qur'an makes clearer the teaching of the Jewish and Christian scriptures.
Muhammad is foretold in the Jewish and Christian scriptures.

Son of God

In the Bible there is a lot of teaching about the "Son of God". This teaching is quite clear. The Qur'an also has much to say about the "Son of God", however it does not confirm or make clearer the Bible's teaching, instead it misunderstands and actually confuses what the Bible clearly taught.

What does the Bible say about the "Son of God"?

The phrase, "Son of God" is a title that is used in the Bible to denote someone's relationship to God. This relationship involves the person, or people, receiving promises from God that they will receive something from him. In this way they are an heir to God as they have been promised and inheritance from him. Now since a son is the heir to his father so too those who have received promises from God are called "sons" of God. In the book of Exodus we see that the whole nation of Israel is called God's "son".

The LORD said to Moses, "When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. ... Then say to Pharaoh, `This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son, and I told you, "Let my son go, so he may worship me." But you refused to let him go; so I will kill your firstborn son.'" (Exodus 4:21-23, NIV)

When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son. (Hosea 11:1, NIV)

Later in Israel's history God appointed David as Israel's king. The title of "Son" that had been applied to Israel was now also applied to her king as he was the head of the nation and had received a special promise from God. Thus every king of Israel had the title of "Son" of God:

The LORD declares to you (David) that the LORD himself will establish a house for you: When your days are over and you rest with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, who will come from your own body, and I will establish his kingdom. He is the one who will build a house for my Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be his father, and he will be my son. (2 Samuel 7:11-14, NIV)
The king of Israel also had another title, the title of Messiah. (The Greek translation of the word Messiah is Christ.) The word Messiah comes from the Hebrew word "to anoint". Every king of Israel was anointed to the position of king, and so every king was The Anointed or the Messiah. We see this happen when Saul was anointed king over Israel:

Then Samuel took a flask of oil and poured it on Saul's head and kissed him, saying, "Has not the LORD anointed you leader over his inheritance? (1 Samuel 10:1, NIV)
What have we seen so far? We have seen that every king of Israel had the titles of Son of God and Messiah/Christ. Thus the Son of God was the Messiah/Christ and the Messiah/Christ was the Son of God. This connection between the two titles was clearly understood at the time of Jesus for we see the two titles used together:

When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?" ... Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ (Messiah), the Son of the living God." (Matthew 16:13-16, NIV)

Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, "Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?" But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God." "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied.(Matthew 26:62-64, NIV)

Hopefully now you can understand what the Bible means when it talks about the Son of God. It is not talking about God having sex and producing a baby. The title Son of God does not even imply divinity in the person for, as we have seen, the nation of Israel and her king were call God's son. Jesus is the true fulfillment of the Son of God. He is the true son of David, the true Israel. He is the true son who received the inheritance from his Father God. This inheritance was the kingdom of God itself.

Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. (Matthew 28:18, NIV)
Now does the Qur'an make clearer the Bible's teaching about the "Son of God"? The answer is no! In fact the Qur'an misunderstands and confuses this teaching from the Bible. Throughout the Qur'an it denies that Jesus is the Son of God yet mistakenly still calls him the Messiah.

The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was no more than God's apostle and his Word which He cast to Mary (Sura 4:171, Dawood).

The Jews say, Ezra is the "Son of God"; the Christians say, "The Messiah is the Son of God." That is the utterance of there mouths, conforming with the unbelievers before them. God assail them! How they are perverted. (Sura 9:30, Arberry)

They say: "God has begotten a son" God forbid! (Sura 10:68, Dawood)

The Qur'an shows no understanding of the meaning of the title "Son of God". In the Qur'an it means nothing more than to imply that God had sex, and as we have seen from the Bible this is not what the title means. In the Qur'an Jesus is given the title of Messiah and yet denied the title of the Son of God; the Bible clearly teaches that both of these titles go together.

Again we see that what was clearly taught in the Bible is confused by the Qur'an and has led to confusion and disagreements between Muslims and Christians. The Qur'an claims to make clearer the teaching of the Bible but this claim is false. It does not make clearer the Bible's teaching, in fact it only confuses it.

Moreover it is you who shows no understanding of the concept. I see your game now. Quoting from answering Islam are we now? Reply to my other point.

Moreover, if Jesus was God, how was authority GIVEN to him? Wasn't he God in the first place? If you want a rebuttal to your argument, see answering Christianity then.

[Adonai88]

I concluded that Islam is the most logical choice and it makes the most sense.

"Now let man but think from what he is created! He is created from a drop emitted - Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs:" S. 86:5-7

Since the verse is speaking of the moment of adult reproduction it can't be talking about the time of embryonic development. Moreover, since 'sulb' is being used in conjunction with 'gushing fluid', which can only be physical; and 'tara'ib' which is another physical word for chest or thorax or ribs, it can't be euphemistic. Therefore, we are left with the very real problem that the semen is coming from the back or kidney area and not the testicles.

"Look further at the bones, how We bring them together and clothe them with flesh ..." (Al-Baqara 2:259)

The Koran gives the impression that first the skeleton is formed, and then it is clothed with mustle. Dr. Bucaille knows perfectly well that this is not true. The muscles and the cartilage precursors of the bones start forming from the somite at the same time. At the end of the eighth week there are only a few centers of ossification started but the fetus is already capable of some muscular movement. There is no time when calcified bones have been formed and then the muscles are placed around them. The muscles are there several weeks before there are calcified bones, rather than being added around previously formed bones as the Qur'an states. The Qur'an is in complete error here

how do you deal with this scientific error of quran ? If it was inspired by Allah, creator of mankind, Allah should know right, no ?

[Adonai88]

I'm not a muslim, I'm an atheist. What make you believe in christian god?
Why do you worship a being that has no evidence for its existance? (incidently the bible is not evidence, such as the quran is not evidence, the book of mormon is not evidence or vedic scripture is not evidence)

If no God exists, you remain with chance. Chance is nothing. From nothing, nothing derives.

1. Life (on earth) (and was not the origin of all being).
When and where life arose to be - pre-existed the absolute death (no life in the universe). So has death created life, which is contrary to all experience of all mankind. Because life is ahead of the death and not vice versa.
The assertion that life can arise, is completely arbitrary. There are not a single reason for that claim.

2.Matter possesses the ability of self-organization.
At the same time matter is dead, lifeless, without intelligence , unconsciously, brainless, ignorant, aimlessly.
Matter (mass and energy) has no ability.
Thus, although matter has no ability, should it still (perversely) organize itself in a absolutely perfect mathematical way - we now know that all matter is logarithmic, which most people are not able to understand! how can an entire random space in mathematically perfect way organize itself and create new material and put together randomly so that even life is possible? Even a single cell is more complicated than all the technological achievements of mankind together.

3. Matter can produce life.
Would (dead, ignorant, brainless) matter really able to create life, then followed it would be imperative that we (living, intelligent, knowing) people can understand this process . But we can not even understand a single living cell spawn, let alone a blade of grass. Life is not a manifestation of matter, which is why the creation of life through matter in opposition to the energy conservation law, because then something would arise, that is not matter, since we know that our thoughts are not consistent of material, but of spiritual nature.

4. Life has evolved through random changes in genetic material (mutation) and selection (selective breeding).
Due to the radioactive contamination of our planet by means of atomic bomb explosions and nuclear bomb production facilities (nuclear power), are always random changes in genetic material (mutations) can be observed. Except to life inabile mutated plants, animals and humans is nothing to recognize, therefore, only instead of decay development.


5. Life emerged in the so-called primordial soup on Earth
from the possibility of production of synthetic fibers (nylon), which are long chain molecules, each chemist knows that the production of these long molecules is possible only in absolute dryness . Small quantities of water, the chain formation immediately stops. Consequently, it is impossible that a long chain molecules such as DNA arised and developed in the midst of water, in the primordial soup, a scientific proof of the falsity of the allegation of the emergence of life on Earth.

6. The central nervous system of humans, the brain, is able to think.
Matter can convert only in one of its manifestations , but not something immaterial . Soul and spirit are no matter, there are no manifestations of matter, but spirit is the opposite of matter. Therefore, the assertion of man as spirit beings was a random product of self-organizing matter, is contrary to the energy conservation movement, the base of all natural science. Remains the possibility that we are apes with the ability to speak, without souls and spirit.
Thought transmission is experimentally demonstrated on several occasions. Thoughts are no manifestations of matter. Even this is scientifically proven.

[Tony]

what perversions ?



upon what criteria did you come to the conclusion, God had no son ? Who gave you this revelation, and for what reason did you give more credit to it, than to the bible ? btw. before the quran was written, how did Allah be known ?

PERVERSIONS...... Jesus the son of God is a perversion of the truth

I was given divine giudance to realise that Jesus(pbuh) was a prophet by Allah Himself in the media of a well known book, THE NOBLE QUR,AN, and by prorhet Muhammad(pbuh) in his beautiful and extensive life and hadiths respectivley. How anyone gives credit to the bible is a mystery to me, it has been warped and changed that many times due to male influences and socio-economic perversion to keep poor and low in their places, the bible has become somewhat of a farce which is why its followers have to burn my friend. Allah has always been Allah, even the prophets (pbut) that we both believe in bear witness to that. Hope this is of some help, peace

Right up untill the last two posts I was prepared to respect you and ur beliefs, but how can u use scientific proofs in the Qur,an to try and undermine Islam, it doesnt even make sense !!!
Just give me one proof that christianity is right, if you cannot then you stick to your way and we ours, on the day of recompense we will stand together, I will be smilling

[Adonai88]

PERVERSIONS...... Jesus the son of God is a perversion of the truth

I was given divine giudance to realise that Jesus(pbuh) was a prophet by Allah Himself in the media of a well known book, THE NOBLE QUR,AN, and by prorhet Muhammad(pbuh) in his beautiful and extensive life and hadiths respectivley. How anyone gives credit to the bible is a mystery to me, it has been warped and changed that many times due to male influences and socio-economic perversion to keep poor and low in their places, the bible has become somewhat of a farce which is why its followers have to burn my friend. Allah has always been Allah, even the prophets (pbut) that we both believe in bear witness to that. Hope this is of some help, peace

sorry, but i don't talk to extremists and terrorists who wish me to burn.

have a nice day.

[Adonai88]

I didn't expect to meet a terrorist and extremist at this forum. But, since i met, here goes a apropriate answer :

"Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free." (9:5)
Do you see now how Quran is offensive to non-muslims?

As you know Life is valuable, and nothing should be taken for granted! We have (been given) brains- let us use them.
From a Muslim point of view, our brain is a bounty and a miracle from Allah. Therefore, not to use our brain is to be unthankful to Allah! Let us think about Islam.

You may not like what we have to say; you may become angry, depressed or saddened by hearing what we have to say. For that we apologize in advance, but all this is for your own good. It is like taking a poisonous sweet away from an unsuspecting child. The sweet is harmful, but the child may not understand this and will not like the sweet being taken away from it.
Our intention is not to hurt you at all, but to guide you and save you and future human generations from a life of needless pain and suffering.

Before we embark on our journey to enlighten you, please understand these certain logical rules:


HOT LINKS


What is humanism?

Islamicity
(well-designed Muslim website)

Statistics about World Religions

Philanthropists in History

World Peace Project for Children

Quotations from famous Humanists

Universal Declaration of Human Rights


1) If Allah is a God, He is the most sensible and the most strong being in the Universe. In this respect:

If a religion does not make sense for many sane people, it cannot be a religion from God. Therfore, Islam (Allah's religion) must make sense in every way.
Allah cannot be hurt in any way by human's. (Humans are different from God; They are vulnerable and can be hurt)
Allah cannot and does not depend on Humans for anyone, therefore He does not need worship. This is in conjunction with the first rule, that He cannot be hurt if we dont worship Him. Niether can He benefit from our worship in ANY way. If humans are the ones who need to worship Him, it doesnt make sense for Allah to punish them if they dont worship Him. This is an extremely important point, please go over it again and if you have questions, ask us.
2) If Allah was a God and Quran was God’s message:

Allah would make sure that Quran would contain miracles and signs that could never have been created by a false prophet.
Allah would not include rules in His religion that could be conceived as “bad” by sane humans
3) If a man claims that he is a messenger of God, he may be lying. It is very important to verify his claims, before we can beleive him. He might only be wanting to control people or have other motives. If we allow ourselves to be a fooled by a false prophet, we risk making the real God unhappy.
4) For the above reason, many false religions have been created in the past, and the God claimed in these religions is not the same God as the real God.
5) If Islam is not true, then not beleiving in Islam does'nt mean that one doesnt beleive in God. In other words, you can still believe in God without being a Muslim.

If you disagree with any of these rules, please send us a message and tell us what you think. Please be sure to mention which rule you dont agree with and why.
Let us be honest with our own beliefs: We no longer believe in any religion, and in our opinion, all religions are only creations of man.

We know you will not to like to hear this but the truth is that Mohammed was not a prophet of god. He was not telling the truth when he said he was receiving revelations from god.
All he wanted to do was to control the population. That is what he did, by creating Islam.

Dear brothers and sisters, we have all the evidence and reasoning to know that:

Allah is not a god, but an imaginary character created by Mohammed.
Mohammed was not a prophet of god
Quran is not from god and it is not a divine book. Neither does it contain any valid miracles.
World scientists also agree with us and they have come to the conclusion that there is no divine content in the Quran.

Think: Could it not have been possible that Mohammed was pretending to be a prophet of God?
Remember rule 1 above! If Allah is a god, he is the most sensible being in the Universe. Therefore, do not be afraid to think and question Islam! If Islam was from God, it could face all the questions in the Universe without any problem.
So fear not, dear friend!

We are with you and if at any point, you have questions to ask, please do not hesitate to question us by using the contact form. We will answer your questions and place the answers in the FAQ section and will let you know that your question has been answered.

[Adonai88]

"Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free." (9:5)



As you know Life is valuable, and nothing should be taken for granted! We have (been given) brains- let us use them.
From a Muslim point of view, our brain is a bounty and a miracle from Allah. Therefore, not to use our brain is to be unthankful to Allah! Let us think about Islam.

You may not like what we have to say; you may become angry, depressed or saddened by hearing what we have to say. For that we apologize in advance, but all this is for your own good. It is like taking a poisonous sweet away from an unsuspecting child. The sweet is harmful, but the child may not understand this and will not like the sweet being taken away from it.
Our intention is not to hurt you at all, but to guide you and save you and future human generations from a life of needless pain and suffering.

Before we embark on our journey to enlighten you, please understand these certain logical rules:

1) If Allah is a God, He is the most sensible and the most strong being in the Universe. In this respect:

If a religion does not make sense for many sane people, it cannot be a religion from God. Therfore, Islam (Allah's religion) must make sense in every way.
Allah cannot be hurt in any way by human's. (Humans are different from God; They are vulnerable and can be hurt)
Allah cannot and does not depend on Humans for anyone, therefore He does not need worship. This is in conjunction with the first rule, that He cannot be hurt if we dont worship Him. Niether can He benefit from our worship in ANY way. If humans are the ones who need to worship Him, it doesnt make sense for Allah to punish them if they dont worship Him. This is an extremely important point, please go over it again and if you have questions, ask us.
2) If Allah was a God and Quran was God’s message:

Allah would make sure that Quran would contain miracles and signs that could never have been created by a false prophet.
Allah would not include rules in His religion that could be conceived as “bad” by sane humans
3) If a man claims that he is a messenger of God, he may be lying. It is very important to verify his claims, before we can beleive him. He might only be wanting to control people or have other motives. If we allow ourselves to be a fooled by a false prophet, we risk making the real God unhappy.
4) For the above reason, many false religions have been created in the past, and the God claimed in these religions is not the same God as the real God.
5) If Islam is not true, then not beleiving in Islam does'nt mean that one doesnt beleive in God. In other words, you can still believe in God without being a Muslim.

If you disagree with any of these rules, please send us a message and tell us what you think. Please be sure to mention which rule you dont agree with and why.
Let us be honest with our own beliefs: We no longer believe in any religion, and in our opinion, all religions are only creations of man.

We know you will not to like to hear this but the truth is that Mohammed was not a prophet of god. He was not telling the truth when he said he was receiving revelations from god.
All he wanted to do was to control the population. That is what he did, by creating Islam.

Dear brothers and sisters, we have all the evidence and reasoning to know that:

Allah is not a god, but an imaginary character created by Mohammed.
Mohammed was not a prophet of god
Quran is not from god and it is not a divine book. Neither does it contain any valid miracles.
World scientists also agree with us and they have come to the conclusion that there is no divine content in the Quran.

Think: Could it not have been possible that Mohammed was pretending to be a prophet of God?
Remember rule 1 above! If Allah is a god, he is the most sensible being in the Universe. Therefore, do not be afraid to think and question Islam! If Islam was from God, it could face all the questions in the Universe without any problem.
So fear not, dear friend!

We are with you and if at any point, you have questions to ask, please do not hesitate to question us by using the contact form. We will answer your questions and place the answers in the FAQ section and will let you know that your question has been answered.

[Tony]

sorry, but i don't talk to extremists and terrorists who wish me to burn.

have a nice day.

I was referring to the hellfire
I am the most peaceful person u will meet, read my poetry to see my veiw on terrorism, your a foul and degenerate being who came spouting false pretences, youve been busted. I am a peace lover, but u come to my english house, in a country that has lost sons and duaghters to terrorists and I will terrify you, yes i am extreme, terrorist i am not, now pack your halfbaked plans and ideas with ur half baked personality and get off this forum u weirdo

[aadil77]

btw. before the quran was written, how did Allah be known ?

Through the more than 40,000 prophets Allah sent to this earth starting from the prophet Adam. Also through the true message of the holy books sent to the jews and christians.

[aadil77]

sorry, but i don't talk to extremists and terrorists who wish me to burn.

have a nice day.

Actually whether on not we wish you to 'burn' doesn't matter, because it is part of our beliefs that non muslims will burn in hell, so you can't be calling us all extremists and terrorists now can you? its up to you whether you believe you're going to burn

[aadil77]

Also if you carry on trying to preach evangelism on this Islamic board you will be banned

You can question our beliefs but do not preach yours from anti islam sites

[Adonai88]

Actually whether on not we wish you to 'burn' doesn't matter, because it is part of our beliefs that non muslims will burn in hell, so you can't be calling us all extremists and terrorists now can you? its up to you whether you believe you're going to burn

we, christians, do believe as well, that all unbelievers, that do not accept jesus christ as lord ans saviour, will pay for their own sins, and will go to hell. But i would never wish you, or anyone else, that end. you can visit as many christian boards, and NEVER find a christian wish you that.

[Tony]

we, christians, do believe as well, that all unbelievers, that do not accept jesus christ as lord ans saviour, will pay for their own sins, and will go to hell. But i would never wish you, or anyone else, that end. you can visit as many christian boards, and NEVER find a christian wish you that.

its not what i said

[Adonai88]

I was referring to the hellfire
I am the most peaceful person u will meet, read my poetry to see my veiw on terrorism, your a foul and degenerate being who came spouting false pretences, youve been busted. I am a peace lover, but u come to my english house, in a country that has lost sons and duaghters to terrorists and I will terrify you, yes i am extreme, terrorist i am not, now pack your halfbaked plans and ideas with ur half baked personality and get off this forum u weirdo

oh shure, you are such a peaceful person , you proove it right again...

[Zafran]

no muslim ever would want a person to suffer in hell - thats why we are telling you Jesus pbuh isnt God/son of God - theres no trinity and Jesus pbuh didnt die for anybodies sins.

You may not like what we have to say; you may become angry, depressed or saddened by hearing what we have to say.

[glo]

Welcome to the forum, Adonai. :welcome:

I too would describe myself as a born-again Christian.
If you are interested in communicating with Muslims on this board and learning about their faith I suggest you perhaps spend some time just browsing the forum. :)

Hang out a bit, and you will find your feet.

[Tony]

i see what ur doing, you cannot draw me in any further, I asked you to bring proof that christianity is right, you couldnt, instead you called me a terrorist, you to yours and I to mine. I will not respond to you attempts at perverting the light any further. May Allah see fit to open your eyes to the truth, Ameen.

[lifeguard]

looking at ur first post..i believe you came here to find the truth cuz ur feeling confused abt urself and ur faith..

i wanna learn more...

just tell me how can Jesus be God and son of God at the same time?

[Adonai88]

looking at ur first post..i believe you came here to find the truth cuz ur feeling confused abt urself and ur faith..

i wanna learn more...

just tell me how can Jesus be God and son of God at the same time?

Dont worry, no confusion of my part...

[Adonai88]

Welcome to the forum, Adonai. :welcome:

I too would describe myself as a born-again Christian.
If you are interested in communicating with Muslims on this board and learning about their faith I suggest you perhaps spend some time just browsing the forum. :)

Hang out a bit, and you will find your feet.

thanks, Bro. Nice to see other christians at this board.

[AntiKarateKid]

sorry, but i don't talk to extremists and terrorists who wish me to burn.

have a nice day.

what??! He is talking about heaven and hell. Just as pagans were condemned to hell in the bible. Don't be a fool.

[AntiKarateKid]

Dont worry, no confusion of my part...

Stop copying and pasting links! For every site you show us there is an islamic response that refutes it. argue with your own brain.

[AntiKarateKid]

oh shure, you are such a peaceful person , you proove it right again...

Listen to me carefully u hypocrite.you insult someone for stating his beliefs about hell which parallel yours and then you call him a terrorist when he responds to ur insult.

Also get out your delusion that we wish hellfire for u. We wish you to be guided but If you reject the truth then god will punish u. Further many Christians wish hellfire for Muslims so get out fr under your rock.

[lifeguard]

thanks for increasing my faith in Islam..

as you can see from the link how contradictory the bible is of itself..just to quote an example from the link you pasted above...you just searched on the web and wikianswers is the source you rely on to answer my question..not your own true knowledge??

Bible says Jesus is not God

Matthew 19
17, Mark 10:18
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

and in another place the bible says Jesus is God...

3. Why does John the apostle state that Jesus was the Word which was God that became flesh (John 1:1,14)?

On the other hand you don't find any contradictions in the Holy Quran...if you do please enlighten me cuz i'd be glad to clear your doubts

[Adonai88]

what??! He is talking about heaven and hell. Just as pagans were condemned to hell in the bible. Don't be a fool.

tell me, where he's talking about heaven and hell ?

How anyone gives credit to the bible is a mystery to me, it has been warped and changed that many times due to male influences and socio-economic perversion to keep poor and low in their places, the bible has become somewhat of a farce which is why its followers have to burn my friend.

he says we have to burn.

[Adonai88]

On the other hand you don't find any contradictions in the Holy Quran...if you do please enlighten me cuz i'd be glad to clear your doubts

why do you ignore the scientific errors, which i've showed already ?

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Adonai88,

Welcome to the forum. I advice you to take the time and familiarize yourself with the forum rules found here:

http://www.islamicboard.com/faq/foru..._liforum_rules

So far, I've edited three links that you posted, one from an anti-Islamic website, and others from websites that promote a religion other than Islam - as is clearly against forum rules. Do not do this again.

You are free to discuss on this forum, and we welcome your stay, however, attempts to promote a religion other than Islam is against forum rules and any offenses, depending on their severity will be dealt with an infraction and/or a ban.

Enjoy your stay.

[Zafran]

why do you ignore the scientific errors, which i've showed already ?

Thats because they are not scientfic errors but scientifically accurate - go to answering christainty (dot) com all those claims have been refuted - they are very old - your a few years late with both claims.

I could point out scientific errors of the bible if you want - some that havent actually been refuted but then again both books are not books of science are they?

[lifeguard]

let's talk abt one specific scientific error...name it...or copy paste it as u r well known for...

[aadil77]

why do you ignore the scientific errors, which i've showed already ?

Ok I think you should search for the threads regarding your queries, because they've been answered easily many times before, so just post on those relevent threads if you aren't satisfied with those responses

[aadil77]

why do you ignore the scientific errors, which i've showed already ?

try this thread http://www.islamicboard.com/clarific...te-verses.html

there are many other you just need to search

[Tony]

tell me, where he's talking about heaven and hell ?

How anyone gives credit to the bible is a mystery to me, it has been warped and changed that many times due to male influences and socio-economic perversion to keep poor and low in their places, the bible has become somewhat of a farce which is why its followers have to burn my friend.

he says we have to burn.

Its in the Qur,an, its the highest possible sin, its unforgiveable YOU ARE GOING TO BURN. Its not what I want for anyone its just the truth and you have to deal with it, its not my conscern. I am overlooking u calling me terrorist as I think maybe there is something about you that is not quite right, I invite you once again to bring proof of christianity being right.
U can resort to hate propaganda, you can call me names, at the moment you are heading for hellfire and are goinf to burn for eternity. I am responding as I dont want others to have to fight my battles

[ragdollcat1982]

Its in the Qur,an, its the highest possible sin, its unforgiveable YOU ARE GOING TO BURN. Its not what I want for anyone its just the truth and you have to deal with it, its not my conscern. I am overlooking u calling me terrorist as I think maybe there is something about you that is not quite right, I invite you once again to bring proof of christianity being right.
U can resort to hate propaganda, you can call me names, at the moment you are heading for hellfire and are goinf to burn for eternity. I am responding as I dont want others to have to fight my battles

Who is going to burn? And who is anyone regardless of religion to condemn anyone to Hell, as only God is judge and truly knows what is in anyones heart.

[Tony]

^^^^^^Chrisyians, and i am not condeming I am stating that Islam tells us via the Qur,an that whoever adds partners to Allah will be living in Hell. Sorry if you dont like it but its a fact, it is Islamic belief at its foremost and I will not back down to you or anyone else, I am proud to be muslim and I will never be ashamed to speak my religion out loud, I am not condeming you, Allah has told you what will happen to you

[ragdollcat1982]

^^^^^^Chrisyians, and i am not condeming I am stating that Islam tells us via the Qur,an that whoever adds partners to Allah will be living in Hell. Sorry if you dont like it but its a fact, it is Islamic belief at its foremost and I will not back down to you or anyone else, I am proud to be muslim and I will never be ashamed to speak my religion out loud, I am not condeming you, Allah has told you what will happen to you

You are free to believe that, but I disagree you with you.

[aadil77]

You are free to believe that, but I disagree you with you.

but don't you also believe that who ever doesn't submit to christ as their lord and saviour will be in hell?

[AntiKarateKid]

You are free to believe that, but I disagree you with you.

What ridiculousness! The bible names plenty of types people who are going to hell. Get real.

[ragdollcat1982]

but don't you also believe that who ever doesn't submit to christ as their lord and saviour will be in hell?

There are some Christian denominations that preach that straight out yes. I was brought up a Catholic and there teaching has stuck with me. It is possible for a non Christian to go to Heaven if they have lived a Christ like life and it is possible for those who have never heard of Jesus as well. And to live a Godly life is hardwired in all of us, some just choose to ignore it. Christ sacrifice absolved all humanity . That is pretty much the gist of it. I will have to dig out my old Catechism to look up it. I personally believe that it is possible for non Christians, especially Jews and Muslims since we all worship the same God to go to Heaven. But I avoid trying to say for sure this person or this group is going to Hell because human beings are finite creatures and only God knows in the end who is going where.

[ragdollcat1982]

What ridiculousness! The bible names plenty of types people who are going to hell. Get real.

Types, yes such as drunks, murders, adulterers, forincators and the like, but it calls for those people to repent and stop what they are doing. It is more of a warning of what could happen if they keep going down the path they are going and dont turn back to God.

[Adonai88]

but don't you also believe that who ever doesn't submit to christ as their lord and saviour will be in hell?

i came to testify my faith, and love , i experience through Jesus Christ. I came to talk about life and heaven, not death and condemnation. I came to testify the gospel, which is a message of love, not of hatered.

[Adonai88]

I personally believe that it is possible for non Christians, especially Jews and Muslims since we all worship the same God to go to Heaven.

I worship Jesus Christ as God.

[AntiKarateKid]

Types, yes such as drunks, murders, adulterers, forincators and the like, but it calls for those people to repent and stop what they are doing. It is more of a warning of what could happen if they keep going down the path they are going and dont turn back to God.

So then stop criticising us for saying who according to Islam will be in hell. And don't forget that pagans are all going to hell according to the bible. So stop being a silly hypocrite.

[AntiKarateKid]

I worship Jesus Christ as God.

Tell me then. Why does God cry "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" on the cross?

Did he forget that he is God?

[ragdollcat1982]

So then stop criticising us for saying who according to Islam will be in hell. And don't forget that pagans are all going to hell according to the bible. So stop being a silly hypocrite.

Why dont you stop being so rude and nasty ? That is really not becoming of anyone who believes in God.

[AntiKarateKid]

Why dont you stop being so rude and nasty ? That is really not becoming of anyone who believes in God.

I am not being rude and nasty. Your words were hypocritical. You know contradictory? I have not called you or anyone here an idiot or a retard or whatever. THAT would be nasty. At least you have the opportunity to prove that you were not being contradictory.

[Hyuio]

As most of your reply appears to be apologetic ramblings I will just pick up on a few things.

3. Matter can produce life.
Would (dead, ignorant, brainless) matter really able to create life, then followed it would be imperative that we (living, intelligent, knowing) people can understand this process . But we can not even understand a single living cell spawn, let alone a blade of grass. Life is not a manifestation of matter, which is why the creation of life through matter in opposition to the energy conservation law, because then something would arise, that is not matter, since we know that our thoughts are not consistent of material, but of spiritual nature.

Look up abiogenesis before spouting such utter claptrap. Also the Miller-Urey experiment supports the hypothesis of the creation of amino acids on an early earth. These are supported in peer reviewed paers, not by a pastor saying a book of myths says it can't happen. Please provide something actual real evidence instead of going to the standard theist default of "We can't explain therefore godunnit".

5. Life emerged in the so-called primordial soup on Earth
from the possibility of production of synthetic fibers (nylon), which are long chain molecules, each chemist knows that the production of these long molecules is possible only in absolute dryness . Small quantities of water, the chain formation immediately stops. Consequently, it is impossible that a long chain molecules such as DNA arised and developed in the midst of water, in the primordial soup, a scientific proof of the falsity of the allegation of the emergence of life on Earth.

Long chain molecules are found in nebulae, known as Giant Molecular Clouds. They are a part of a natural process in the universe from dying stars. This gives the hypothesis that the begins of life can begin out in space rather than having to form on a planetary surface.
As for the manufacture of Nylon you do know that a byproduct of making nylon is water?

6. The central nervous system of humans, the brain, is able to think.
Matter can convert only in one of its manifestations , but not something immaterial . Soul and spirit are no matter, there are no manifestations of matter, but spirit is the opposite of matter. Therefore, the assertion of man as spirit beings was a random product of self-organizing matter, is contrary to the energy conservation movement, the base of all natural science. Remains the possibility that we are apes with the ability to speak, without souls and spirit.
Thought transmission is experimentally demonstrated on several occasions. Thoughts are no manifestations of matter. Even this is scientifically proven.

Now quote from a non-biblical source and the peer reviewed scientific papers that support your evidence. Apologist sites are renowned for BS and lying, quote mining, distorting facts.

[alcurad]

now now

[ragdollcat1982]

now now

Clearly the OP of this thread is a troll and trolls like to cause trouble. I think we have fed the troll enough , the more we respond and go off on each other the fatter the troll will be.

[Hyuio]

Tell me then. Why does God cry "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" on the cross?

Did he forget that he is God?

He doesn't say that in John. It is "It is finished"
In Luke it is "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit"
Only in Matthew and Mark does Jesus say that, but hey, the bible is full of contradictions, so what is one more to the christian. That is why they have apologetics.

[Tony]

Clearly the OP of this thread is a troll and trolls like to cause trouble. I think we have fed the troll enough , the more we respond and go off on each other the fatter the troll will be.

well said, I think these people are very skillfull at what they do and it requires a big spoon. I hope you dont really think I want you or anyone to burn in hell, I honestly dont. Peace and blessings for your post

[AntiKarateKid]

As most of your reply appears to be apologetic ramblings I will just pick up on a few things.

Look up abiogenesis before spouting such utter claptrap. Also the Miller-Urey experiment supports the hypothesis of the creation of amino acids on an early earth. These are supported in peer reviewed paers, not by a pastor saying a book of myths says it can't happen. Please provide something actual real evidence instead of going to the standard theist default of "We can't explain therefore godunnit".


Long chain molecules are found in nebulae, known as Giant Molecular Clouds. They are a part of a natural process in the universe from dying stars. This gives the hypothesis that the begins of life can begin out in space rather than having to form on a planetary surface.
As for the manufacture of Nylon you do know that a byproduct of making nylon is water?


Now quote from a non-biblical source and the peer reviewed scientific papers that support your evidence. Apologist sites are renowned for BS and lying, quote mining, distorting facts.

Since you like to qualify every statement with "peer reviewed" perhaps you havent looked up the opposing peer revied ones? The miller -urey experiment has been shown to be flawed.

I'm jsut a college student but from what I can tell,

http://www.iowastatedaily.com/articl...02-archive.txt

That article makes pretty compelling observations. You're just the same as him, citing paragraphs from this article or the other. A google-scholar a scientist does not make.

[Adonai88]

Tell me then. Why does God cry "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" on the cross?

Did he forget that he is God?

search google : answer muslims trinity

[ragdollcat1982]

well said, I think these people are very skillfull at what they do and it requires a big spoon. I hope you dont really think I want you or anyone to burn in hell, I honestly dont. Peace and blessings for your post

I just disagree is all. I would have said the same thing to a Chrisitan who said that such and such will burn. As human beings are finite and in the end only God utlimatly knows the eternal fate of all people.

[AntiKarateKid]

search google : answer muslims trinity

Was that meant to be a joke response?

I'd prefer to do my own thinking and give Google a break after you worked it so hard!

Lookit.

God is God.
God cannot abandon himself.
Jesus says God abandoned him.
Jesus is not God.

[Zafran]

Clearly the OP of this thread is a troll and trolls like to cause trouble. I think we have fed the troll enough , the more we respond and go off on each other the fatter the troll will be.

I agree maybe this thread has served its purpose and should be closed.

[AntiKarateKid]

I just disagree is all. I would have said the same thing to a Chrisitan who said that such and such will burn. As human beings are finite and in the end only God utlimatly knows the eternal fate of all people.

I understand you disagree.

I do not know if any one individual is definitely going to hell because I don't know whats going on inside their head. But we know what type of people will go to hell. Therefore I can say, a pagan who refuses Islam and continues his ways will go to hell.

[ragdollcat1982]

I looked up the OP search and I found this from arabicbible.com. This is a Christian site geared toward Arab peoples so apologies up front to anyone who may be offended.

http://www.arabicbible.com/islam/christian_doctrine.htm

[AntiKarateKid]

I looked up the OP search and I found this from arabicbible.com. This is a Christian site geared toward Arab peoples so apologies up front to anyone who may be offended.

http://www.arabicbible.com/islam/christian_doctrine.htm

You're just quoting links like Adonis. Talk for yourself. And we can do this one point at a time. I'd rather not paste a link which refutes yours, its just boring.

[Adonai88]

As most of your reply appears to be apologetic ramblings I will just pick up on a few things.

i see, just ignoring the tuff part....

Look up abiogenesis before spouting such utter claptrap. Also the Miller-Urey experiment supports the hypothesis of the creation of amino acids on an early earth. These are supported in peer reviewed paers, not by a pastor saying a book of myths says it can't happen.

thats complete nonsense. Abiogenesis is not possible, and nobody has proven contrary. Atheists are becoming desperate and are now offering $1 million for an explanation that "corresponds to empirical biochemical and thermodynamic reality, and be published in a well-respected, peer-reviewed science journal

Is the Chemical Origin of Life (Abiogenesis) a Realistic Scenario?
http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/chemlife.html

Please provide something actual real evidence instead of going to the standard theist default of "We can't explain therefore godunnit".

"We can't explain therefore godunnit"

that actually is a standard , boring, atheist argument.

Scientists and theists are not the only ones who use "gaps" arguments. In fact, many atheists use gaps arguments to argue against the existence of God.For example, atheists complain that a loving God would never allow evil in His creation. However, this argument is based on a gap in atheists' understanding of the main purpose of the universe

In another example, atheists cannot imagine how God can exist as a non-created being. However, the gap is filled by throwing out the assumption that time has always existed. We are so used to cause and effect that we can't imagine an existence without it.

Many skeptics believe that all arguments for the existence of God fall into the God of the gaps variety. According to this premise, one would expect these arguments to become fewer in number as scientists make more discoveries and learn more about our world. In reality, evidence continues to accumulate suggesting that the universe was designed by an intelligent agent. The evidence suggesting that the universe and its physical laws were designed continues to accumulate at a rapid rate.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologe..._the_gaps.html


[/QUOTE]
Long chain molecules are found in nebulae, known as Giant Molecular Clouds. They are a part of a natural process in the universe from dying stars. This gives the hypothesis that the begins of life can begin out in space rather than having to form on a planetary surface.
As for the manufacture of Nylon you do know that a byproduct of making nylon is water?[QUOTE]

google homochirality, and you'll see that scientists tried already to explain life on earth through meteors , fallen on earth, with high homochirality. needed is 100%, but even meteorits have max. 16%.....

Now quote from a non-biblical source and the peer reviewed scientific papers that support your evidence. Apologist sites are renowned for BS and lying, quote mining, distorting facts.

why should i, if you have not either ? show me where i am wrong with my presented facts !! and, answer to all presented points..... and not just the easy ones...

[ragdollcat1982]

You're just quoting links like Adonis. Talk for yourself. And we can do this one point at a time. I'd rather not paste a link which refutes yours, its just boring.

I only post links when it maybe relative to the topic, not constantly in nearly every post. If anyone wants to learn about a particular religion the best thing to do is go straight to the horses mouth when I wanted to learn about Islam I went to Islamic sites, if a Muslim wants to learn about Christianty go to a Christian site. My intent is not to convert in anyone. I thought since we have a lot of Arabic speakers on here this would be an interesting way for them to learn about my faith. This is after all the comparative religion thread.

[Adonai88]

Was that meant to be a joke response?

I'd prefer to do my own thinking and give Google a break after you worked it so hard!

Lookit.

God is God.
God cannot abandon himself.
Jesus says God abandoned him.
Jesus is not God.

if you just want to stick on simple answers, and are actually not interested in a indepth research and seek of a deeper understanding, why should i do the work for you ?

[AntiKarateKid]

if you just want to stick on simple answers, and are actually not interested in a indepth research and seek of a deeper understanding, why should i do the work for you ?

Who said they had to be simple. And you of all people shouldn't talk having someone do the work for you.

By the way, I'm impressed you responded in your own words! I expected another link as an answer.

[Adonai88]

Who said they had to be simple. And you of all people shouldn't talk having someone do the work for you.

By the way, I'm impressed you responded in your own words! I expected another link as an answer.

God is God.
God cannot abandon himself.
Jesus says God abandoned him.
Jesus is not God.

thats a simplistic answer.

[AntiKarateKid]

God is God.
God cannot abandon himself.
Jesus says God abandoned him.
Jesus is not God.

thats a simplistic answer.

It is a train of logic. Do you admit it to be right? Cmon, you can do it (kinda)! Use your brain and come up with a response! Do not touch ctrl + c and pretend your mouse has only the left button.

[Adonai88]

It is a train of logic. Do you admit it to be right? Cmon, you can do it (kinda)! Use your brain and come up with a response! Do not touch ctrl + c and pretend your mouse has only the left button.

i wont do the work, since that is not a answer, i will be able to give in a few minutes. but you can google, and find a extensive, indepth answer. if you are not interested to do it, my time is not worth to be spend on that answer either. sorry.

[Tony]

I just disagree is all. I would have said the same thing to a Chrisitan who said that such and such will burn. As human beings are finite and in the end only God utlimatly knows the eternal fate of all people.

disagreeing perfectly ok, this troll guy is just causing trouble

[Tony]

if you just want to stick on simple answers, and are actually not interested in a indepth research and seek of a deeper understanding, why should i do the work for you ?

please dont then

[AntiKarateKid]

i wont do the work, since that is not a answer, i will be able to give in a few minutes. but you can google, and find a extensive, indepth answer. if you are not interested to do it, my time is not worth to be spend on that answer either. sorry.

You are a slippery one! Any christian reponse out there has an Islamic refutation to it. You get it?

Stop dancing around my challenge. You have no answer. I specifically asked this one because ANY christian response to this is convoluted in such a way that it would make far more sense if you guys admitted to being polytheistic.

I'll wait till you skim another article on answering Islam. :rollseyes

[Tony]

I am still waiting for the proof that Jesus is son of God lol:D

[AntiKarateKid]

I am still waiting for the proof that Jesus is son of God lol:D

Let him answer my question first because it is harder to copy and paste for mine.

[Tony]

Let him answer my question first because it is harder to copy and paste for mine.

haha, dont worry he will, he cant answer mine, but no doubt he will hide behind some wall of text plaguerised from some right wing website:D

[Hyuio]

i see, just ignoring the tuff part....

No. just most of the BS.
You want tough (that is how it is spelt) then how about showing that christian god is the only god that exists, Jesus existed, that the gospels actually agree on everything, that the flood was real, that Adam and Eve existed, that Moses really spoke to a burning bush, that the exodus really happened, that evoultion is false, that cosmoslogy is false, that planetary formation is false

thats complete nonsense. Abiogenesis is not possible, and nobody has proven contrary. Atheists are becoming desperate and are now offering $1 million for an explanation that "corresponds to empirical biochemical and thermodynamic reality, and be published in a well-respected, peer-reviewed science journal

Is the Chemical Origin of Life (Abiogenesis) a Realistic Scenario?
http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/chemlife.html

Yawn, apologetic site. I see no science. Miller-Urey is a peer reviewed scientific paper. Your pathetic apolgist site is full of normal creotard nonsense that has be debunked and shown for the BS that it is. Take a look at a real site devoted to real science.
http://www.talkorigins.org/

"We can't explain therefore godunnit"

that actually is a standard , boring, atheist argument.

Scientists and theists are not the only ones who use "gaps" arguments. In fact, many atheists use gaps arguments to argue against the existence of God.For example, atheists complain that a loving God would never allow evil in His creation. However, this argument is based on a gap in atheists' understanding of the main purpose of the universe

Oh really?
Q:How was the universe created
Atheist answer: We don't know, but there are some really interesting hypothesis on the matter. We shall experiemnt and test then
Fundie Theist answer: Godunnit

Q: How did life start on earth?
Atheist answer: We don't really know, but we experiment and find that under early panetary conditions amino acids form.
Fundie Theist answer: Godunnit

Q: HOw did humans get here?
Atheist: this we do know as we have evolution for this. Look at all these papers that show evolution, the fossil records, genetics and how evolution is happening even as we speak. Look, you can even observe it in the laboratory
Fundie theist answer: Godunnit

See, an atheist will amit we don't know because we don't? Your instant answer is Godunnit. your argument is flawed and falls into EPIC FAIL.

In another example, atheists cannot imagine how God can exist as a non-created being. However, the gap is filled by throwing out the assumption that time has always existed. We are so used to cause and effect that we can't imagine an existence without it.

I don't assume time and space has always existed, something you can't do with your god. Even so if your flawed argument is vaguly correct, it still doesn't prove your god. Could be the FSM for all you know.

Many skeptics believe that all arguments for the existence of God fall into the God of the gaps variety. According to this premise, one would expect these arguments to become fewer in number as scientists make more discoveries and learn more about our world. In reality, evidence continues to accumulate suggesting that the universe was designed by an intelligent agent. The evidence suggesting that the universe and its physical laws were designed continues to accumulate at a rapid rate.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologe..._the_gaps.html

;D;D;D
More apologetic BS. ID has been debunked on so many levels. Reality says that evidence shows that the universe is less designed, not more. Please site one, just one scientifically peer reviewed paper that agress with ID. Seriously have a look at Talkorigins,

Long chain molecules are found in nebulae, known as Giant Molecular Clouds. They are a part of a natural process in the universe from dying stars. This gives the hypothesis that the begins of life can begin out in space rather than having to form on a planetary surface.
As for the manufacture of Nylon you do know that a byproduct of making nylon is water?[QUOTE]

why should i, if you have not either ? show me where i am wrong with my presented facts !! and, answer to all presented points..... and not just the easy ones...

You cite apologist sites as your sources, and you want me to take your arguments seriously. You haven't presented any facts, just assumptions because like most faith blind theists your fantasy book has given you answers and you then use bad science, lies and just plain ignoring the evidence to back up your claims. You examine the evidence and draw up a conclusion on those facts, not the other way around which you are.