Concept of Messiah in Islam

[Shoes]

Hi everyone, not sure whether this thread belongs here or in Clarifications, so feel free to move it. :)

My questions are as follows:

• What is the concept of Messiahship in Islam? What are the necessary criteria for Messiahship?
• Did Jesus fulfill these criteria, or did someone else fulfill them, or is the Messiah still to come? (Or any other possibilities?)
• To what extent do these criteria correspond to the multiple prophecies in the Tanakh (aka the 'Old Testament')?

Inevitably, I guess, a comparison with the concept in Judaism, Christianity and other Abrahamic faiths is bound to come up at some stage - but for the time being can we focus on the questions above.

Salam,
Shoes

[Zafran]

Salaam

Jesus pbuh is the messiah - If He Jesus pbuh has not fufiled the prophecies yet he will do in the future when he returns - Messaih basically means "anotied one"

As Muslims we believe he came first has a messenger to the Jewsih people who rejected him - Then he will return (kill the anti christ or Dajjal) and spread peace on earth and fufil is prophetic role as the messiah.

peace

[Shoes]

Hi again, Zafran, thanks for your reply. Could you possibly go into more specifics about which prophecies haven't been fulfilled, and how these are likely to be fulfilled when Jesus returns?

Salam,
Shoes

[جوري]

Greetings shoes,

here are a couple of websites:

http://www.islaam.com/books/0_preface.htm

second is roughly and not in order as we don't actually know the order of the big signs of which Jesus is a big sign:

Said the Holy Prophet PBUH:

"You will invade the Arabian Peninsula and God will grant it. Then Persia and God will grant it. Then you shall invade Ar-Rum (Europe) and God will grant it. Then you shall attack the Antichrist and God shall give him to you"The Messenger of God was then asked "which of the two cities will be conquered first - Constantinople or Rome?" and the Holy Prophet PBUH replied : " The city of Heraclius (Constantinople) will be conquered FIRST"

Prophethood (meaning himself) will remain with you for as long as Allah wills it to
remain, then Allah will raise it up wherever he wills to raise it up. Afterwards, there will
be a Caliphate that follows the guidance of Prophethood remaining with you for as
long as Allah wills it to remain. Then, He will raise it up whenever He wills to raise it
up. Afterwards, there will be a reign of violently oppressive [Umayyad, Abbasids, Ottomans etc]
rule and it will remain with you for as long as Allah
wills it to remain. Then, there will be a reign of tyrannical rule
(current nationalistic secular and totalitarian governments) and it will remain for as long as Allah wills it to remain.
Then, Allah will raise it up whenever He wills to raise
it up. Then, there will be a Caliphate that follows the guidance of Prophethood." Then he fell silent.


"The Caliphate will remain in my nation after me for thirty years (included Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ali and Hassan and Hussain) . Then, it
will be a monarchy after that (Ummayad, Abbasids, Ottomans etc) ."
"Therefore, hold fast to my Sunnah and the Sunnah of the rightly
guided Caliphs, hold it between your front teeth! And beware of
innovations (in the religion), for every innovation is a bid'ah, and every
bid'ah is a deviation, and every deviation is in the Fire."

"if you see that the
Caliphate has taken its abode in the holy land, then the earthquake, the tribulations and great events are at hand, and
the Last Hour on that day will be closer to people than my hand is to your head."

"There will be an oath of allegiance according to
guidance in Jerusalem."

"You will fight the unbelievers
until the remnant of you fights on the River Jordan, you to the east of it and they to the west of it."

"God Almighty will enable you to conquer Syria after
my death, from Al- 'Arish to the Euphrates. Their men and women will be garrisoned until the Day of Judgement.
Whoever from among you chooses one of the coasts of Syria or Jerusalem is in the sacred struggle (jihad) until the
Day of Judgement"

"Day of Judgment will come...

* When it will be regarded as a shame to act on Quranic injunctions.
* When untrustworthy people will be regarded as trustworthy and the trustworthy will be regarded as untrustworthy.
* When it will be hot in winter (and vice versa).
* When the length of days is stretched, i.e. a journey of a few days is covered in a matter of hours.
* When orators and lecturers lie openly.
* When people dispute over petty issues.
* When women with children come displeased on account of them bearing offspring, and barren women remain happy on
account of having no responsibility of offspring.
* When oppression, jealousy, and greed become the order of the day.
* When people blatantly follow their passions and whims.
* When lies prevail over the truth.
* When violence, bloodshed and anarchy become common.
* When immorality overtakes shamelessness and is perpetrated publicly.
* When legislation matters pertaining to Deen is handed over to the worst elements of the Ummat, and if people accept them
and are satisfied with their findings, then such persons will not smell the fragrance of Jannat.
* When the offspring become a cause of grief and anger (for their parents). * when writing will be widespread



"The Day of Judgment will not come until :

* Music and musical instruments will be found in every home.
* People will indulge in homosexuality.
* There will be an abundance of illegitimate children.
* There will be an abundance of critics, tale-carriers, back- biters and taunters in society.
* People will establish ties with strangers and sever relations with their near and dear ones.
* Hypocrites will be in control of the affairs of the community and evil, immoral people will be at the helm of business
establishments.
* The Masjid will be decorated, but the hearts of the people will be devoid of guidance.
* The courtyards of Masjids will be built beautifully and high mimbars (pulpits) will be erected.
* Gangsters and evil people will prevail.
* Various wines will be consumed excessively.

"Count six things before the advent of the Day of Judgment :

1 My death
2 The conquest of Jerusalem
3 Mass deaths amongst you people, just as when sheep die in large numbers during an epidemic
4 Abundance of wealth to such an extent that if a person were to be given a hundred Dinars he will still not be satisfied
5 General anarchy and bloodshed, that no Arab household will be spared from it
6 Then a life of peace as a result of a peace agreement between you and the Banil Asfaar
(Romans) which they will break and attack you with a force consisting of eighty flags and under each flag will be an army of
twelve thousand men."

"The Hour will not come until :

*The disappearance of knowledge and the appearance of ignorance (Bukhari & Muslim)
*Adultery and fornication will be prevalent (The Prophet, peace be upon him, said that this has never happened without new
diseases befalling the people, which their ancestors had not known.) (Bukhari & Muslim)
*Adultery and fornication will be performed in the open
*The consumption of intoxicants will be widespread (Bukhari & Muslim)
*Women will outnumber men......eventually 50:1 (Bukhari & Muslim)
*Killing, killing, killing (Bukhari & Muslim)
*The children will be filled with rage (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
*Rain will be acidic or burning (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
*Children of fornication will become widespread or prevalent (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
*When a trust becomes a means of making a profit
*Gains will be shared out only among the rich, with no benefit to the poor
*Paying zakat becomes a burden and miserliness becomes widespread
*When a man obeys his wife and disobeys his mother; and treats his friend kindly while shunning his father
*When voices are raised in the mosques
*People will walk in the marketplace with their thighs exposed
*Great distances will be traversed in short spans of time
*The people of Iraq will recieve no food and no money due to oppression by the Romans (Europeans) (Muslim)
*People will hop between the clouds and the earth
*The leader of a people will be the worst of them
*People will treat a man with respect out of fear for some evil he might do
*Men will begin to wear silk
*Female singers and musical instruments will become popular
*People will dance late into the night
*When the last ones of the Ummah begin to curse the first ones
*People will believe in the stars
*People will reject al-Qadr (the Divine Decree of Destiny)
*Time will pass rapidly (Bukhari)
*Good deeds will decrease (Bukhari)
*Miserliness will be thrown into the hearts of people (Bukhari)
*Smog will appear over cities because of the evil that they are doing
*People will be carrying on with their trade, but their will only be a few trustworthy persons
*A man will pass by a grave and wish that he was in their place
*Earthquakes will increase
*The appearance of false messengers (30 dajjals)
*Women will be naked in spite of being dressed
*The conquest of Constantinople by the Muslims
*When the sheperds of black camels start boasting and begin to compete with others in the construction of taller buildings
(Bukhari)
*Wild animals will be able to talk to humans
*A man will leave his home and his thigh or hip will tell him what is happening back at his home
*The truthful person will not be believed and the liar will be believed
*When men lie with men and women lie with women
*Trade will become so widespread that a woman will be forced to help her husband in business
*A woman will enter the workforce out of love for this world
*Books will be widespread and knowledge will be low
*Arrogance will increase in the earth (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
*Family ties will be cut
*Men will begin to look like women and women will begin to look like men

'Soon the people of IRAQ will
neither receive any food (grain) nor any money.'" We asked, "Why would such a thing happen?" He replied, "Because of the
non-Arabs." (i.e they will prevent food from going into Iraq, in the form of "sanctions" to this day.) He then said: "Soon the people of
Shaam (SYRIA) will neither receive any money nor grain." We asked as to why this would happen. He replied: "Because of the
Romans (christians)."

"The Hour will not be established till two big groups fight each other whereupon there will
be a great number of casualties on both sides and they will be following one and the same religion"

" Allah drew the ends of the world together for my sake. I have seen its
eastern and western ends. The dominion of my nation will reach those ends which have been drawn together
near me and I have been granted the red and the white treasures. I begged my Lord that my Ummah should not
be destroyed by famine, nor be dominated by a foreign enemy who will take their lives and destroy them root and
branch. My Lord said: Muhammad, whenever I make a decision, there is none to change it. Well, I grant you that your
Ummah will not be destroyed by famine, nor will it be dominated by a foreign enemy who will take their lives and
destroy them root and branch, even if all the people from the different parts of the world join hands together (for
this purpose). However, it will be from amongst them, viz. your Ummah, that some people will kill or imprison the
others. "

"Iraq would withhold its dirhams and qafiz; Syria would withhold its
mudd and dinar and Egypt would withhold its irdab and dinar and you would recoil to that position from where
you started and you would recoil to that position from where you started and you would recoil to the position
from where you started (i.e in Arabia) "

"The Last Hour would come (when) the Romans (West/Christians) would form a
majority amongst people (or be dominant amongst the world)."

"By Him in Whose Hand is my life, a time would come when the
murderer would not know why he has committed the murder, and the victim would not know why he has been
killed. "

"There would be in the last (phase) of the time a caliph who would
distribute wealth but would not count. "

"The Last Hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against
the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a
stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him."

"The Antichrist would be followed by seventy thousand Jews of Isfahan (Iran)"

The Prophet stood on his pulpit in Medina and faced the East and said:

"Afflictions will verily emerge from here, where the top of Satan's head will appear"

"Verily , the Satan has lost all hopes that the worshippers
would ever worship him in the peninsula of Arabia, but he is hopeful that he would sow the seed of dissension
amongst them. "

"God will raise for this(muslim) community at the end of every hundred years the
one who will renovate its religion for it. "

"The building of the Bayt-al-Maqdis (in Jerusalem) will be followed by the destruction of Yathrib (Medina) which will be followed by a fierce battle, which will be followed by the conquest of Constantinople, which will be followed by the appearance of the AntiChrist". Then he put his hand on the thigh of the one with whom he was speaking and said : " This is true as the fact that you are sitting here"

"The Great war, the conquest of Constantinople and the appearnce of the Antichrist will all happen within 7 months. "

"The people will soon summon one another to attack you as people
when eating invite others to share their dish. Someone asked: Will that be because of our small numbers at that
time? He replied: No, you will be numerous at that time: but you will be scum and rubbish like that carried down
by a torrent, and Allah will take fear of you from the breasts of your enemy and last enervation into your hearts.
Someone asked: What is wahn (enervation). Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him): He replied: Love of the
world and dislike of death. "

"When bloody wars break out, God will send an army of the mawali (Non-Arabs)
whose horses and weapons are superior to the best of the Arabs' horses and
weapons. Through them God will strengthen the religion of Islam."

"The place of assembly of the Muslims at the time of the war will be in
al-Ghutah near a city called Damascus, one of the best cities in Syria. "

"The Last Hour will not come before there come forth thirty Dajjals
(fraudulents), everyone presuming himself that he is an apostle of Allah. "

"When the people see a wrongdoer and
do not prevent him, Allah will soon punish them all."

"enjoin one another to do what is good and forbid one another to do what is evil.
But when you see niggardliness being obeyed, passion being followed, worldly interests being preferred, everyone
being charmed with his opinion, then care for yourself, and leave alone what people in general are doing; for
ahead of you are days which will require endurance, in which showing endurance will be like grasping live coals.
The one who acts rightly during that period will have the reward of fifty men who act as he does. "

"If only one day of this time (world) remained, Allah would raise up a
man from my family who would fill this earth with justice as it has been filled with oppression. "

"This world will not come to
an end until one person from my progeny does not rule over the Arabs, and his name will be the same as my
name."

"Al Mahdi will be from my
progeny. His forehead will be broad and his nose will be high. He will fill the world with justice and fairness at a
time when the world will be filled with oppression. He will rule for seven years."

" After the death of a Ruler
there will be some dispute between the people. At that time a citizen of Madina will flee (from Madinah) and go to
Makkah. While in Makkah, certain people will approach him between Hajrul Aswad (sacred black stone on the
kaaba)and Maqaame Ibraheem (position of Abraham in the sacred Grand Mosque of Mecca), and forcefully
pledge their allegiance to him.
Thereafter a huge army will proceed from Syria to attack him but when they will be at Baida, which is between
Makkah and Madina, they will be swallowed into the ground.
On seeing this, the Abdaals of Syria as well as large numbers of people from Iraq will come to him and pledge their
allegiance to him. Then a person from the Quraish, whose uncle will be from the Bani Kalb tribe will send an army
to attack him, only to be overpowered, by the will of Allah. This (defeated) army will be that of the Bani Kalb.
Unfortunate indeed is he who does not receive a share from the booty of the Kalb. This person (Imam Mahdi) will
distribute the spoils of war after the battle. He will lead the people according to the Sunnat and during his reign
Islam will spread throughout the world. He will remain till seven years (since his emergence). He will pass away and
the Muslims will perform his Janazah salaat (funeral prayers)."

"There will be four peace
agreements between you and the Romans (the Western powers). The fourth agreement will be mediated through a
person who will be from the progeny of Hadhrat Aaron (that is will be from the priestly Levite tribe of Israel) (A.S.)
and will be upheld for seven years."
The people asked: "O Rasulullah (Prophet Muhammad), who will be the Imaam of the people at the time?"
Rasulullah (Prophet Muhammad) said: "He will be from my progeny and will be forty years of age. His face will
shine like a star and he will have a black spot on his left cheek. He will don two "Qutwaani" cloaks and will appear
exactly as a person from the Bani Israeel (Children of Israel)..."

"(Armies carrying) black flags will come
from Khurasaan (Iran). No power will be able to stop them and they will finally reach Eela (Dome of the Rock in
Jerusalem) where they will erect their flags."

"There will be many armies after me.
You must join that army which will come from Khurasaan (Iran)."

"The sun will soon set, and what remains of this world, compared to what has passed, is like what remains of this day compared to what has passed"

"Islam began as something strange, and it will revert to being something strange as it was in the beginning, so good tidings for the strangers. It was asked of him : "who are the strangers?" and he said : "the ones who break away from their people for the sake of Islam"

"By him in whose hand my soul is, my nation will split into 73 sects: one will enter paradise and 72 will enter hell". It was asked of him : " who will they (the saved people) be?" and he said : "The main body of the muslims (Jama'ah)"

"Among the signs of the hour will be the disapperance of knowledge and the appearance of ignorance. Adultery will be prevalent and the drinking of wine will be commmon"

"If fornication should become widespread you should know that this has never happened without God sending new diseases to the people which their forbears didn't suffer from . If people should begin to cheat in weighing out goods then know that this has never happened without drought and famine befalling the people, and their rulers oppressing them. If people should withhold Zakat then you should realize that this has never happened without the rain being stopped from falling, and were it not for the animal's sake it would never rain again. If people should break their covenant with God and His Messenger you should realize that this has never happened without God sending an enemy against them to take some of their possessions by force. If the leaders do not govern according to the Book of God, you should realize that this has never happened without God dividing them into groups and making them fight one another."

"O People, it has been the duty of every Prophet before me to guide his people to whatever he knew was good for them and to warn them against whatever he knew was bad for them, but this nation has its time of peace and security, at the beginning; close to the end it will suffer trials and tribulations, one after another. Tribulation will come and the believer will say "This will finish me" but it will pass. Another tribulation will come and he will say "This is it" but it will pass also and a third will come and go likewise. Whoever wishes to be rescued from Hell, and enter Paradise let him die believing in God and the Last Day and treat the people as he himself wishes to be treated. If anoyone gives allegiance to an Imam, then let him obey him as much as he can."

"You will sign a peace treaty with the Romans (Christians/Europeans), and together you will invade an enemy beyond Rome. You will be victorious and take much booty. Then you will camp in a hilly pasture; one of the Roman men will come and raise a cross and say "Victory to the Cross", so one of the muslims will come and kill him. Then the Romans will break the treaty and there will be battle. They will gather an army against you and come against you with eighty banners, each banner followed by ten thousand men"

Pointing towards Syria he said:

"An enemy will gather forces against the muslims". He was asked :"do you mean the Romans ?" and he said :" Yes. At that time there will be very heavy fighting. The muslims will prepare a detachment to fight to death. Both sides will return without being victorious; then many will be killed on both sides. On the fourth day, the muslims who are left will return to the fight and God will cause the enemy to be routed. There will be a battle the like of which has never been seen, so that even if a bird were to pass their ranks, it would fall down dead before it reached the end of them. Out of a family of one hundred, only one man will survive, so how could he enjoy the booty or divide any inheritance? While they are in this state, they will hear of an even worse calamity. A cry will reach them : "the Antichrist has taken your place among your offspring"

"The hour will not be established until the Romans camp at Al-A'mash or Dabiq. An army composed of the best people on earth at that time will come out from Medina to meet them. When they have arranged themselves in ranks, the Romans will say "Do not stand between us and those who took prisoners from amongst us. Let us fight them". The Muslims will say " No, by God, we will never stand aside from you and our brothers". Then they will fight. One third will turn away and run away and God will never forgive them. One third will be killed and they will be the best of Martyrs in God's sight. One third who will never be subjected to trials and tribulations will win and will then conquer Constantinople. Whilst they are sharing their booty after hanging their swords, Satan will shout to them that the Antichrist has taken their place among their families. They will rush out but they will find out it is not true. When they come to Syria, the Antichrist will appear while they are preparing for battle and drawing up their ranks. When the time for prayer comes, Jesus the son of Mary will descend. When the enemy of God sees him (i.e Jesus) he (the Antichrist) will start to dissolve like salt in water"

"The Hour will not come until the muslims fight against the Jews and destroy them."

"Neither the Antichrist nor a plague can enter Medina"

"By Him in Whose hand is my soul, the Hour will not come until wild animals talk to men and a man speaks to his whip or his shoe and his thigh will tell him about what happened to his family after he left"

"The hour will not come until time passes so quickly that a year will be like a month, a month like a week, a week like a day, a day like an hour and an hour like the time it takes for a palm-leaf to burn"

"The bare-footed and naked paupers (of Arabia) will compete with one another in constructing high buildings"

"The hour will not come until the time when a man will leave his home and his shoes or whip or stick will tell what is happening to his family"

"There will be a tribulation that will clean the Arabs and its dead will be in Hell (because they fought for wordly ideologies and glory not Islam)"

"The last Hour will not come upon us until the lands of the Arabs are once again pasture lands
and filled with rivers."

"The people will flee from the Antichrist to the mountains". He was asked : "O Messenger of God! Where will the Arabs be at that time" to which he replied : "they will be very few"

"They (the Arabs) will be few and they will be concentrated around Jerusalem and their Imam will be a righetous man (the Imam Mahdi)."...and he continued to describe the descent of Jesus the Son of Mary

"Woe to the Arabs of an evil drawing nigh! Its shadow has fallen on them already by the Lord of the Ka'aba. Its shadow has fallen on them! (i.e it is close)"

"Soon the river "Euphrates" will disclose the treasure (the mountain) of gold, so whoever will
be present at that time should not take anything of it"

"The Euphrates would soon uncover a mountain of gold and
when the people would hear of it they would flock towards it but the people who would possess that (treasure)
(would say): If we allow these persons to take out of it they would take away the whole of it. So they would fight
and ninety-nine out of one hundred would be killed. "

"God will send no Apostle after me, but only Mubashshirat. It was said: what is meant by al-Mubashshirat. He said : Good vision or pious vision"

"Towards the Latter Days dreams shall become confused. The truthful dream will be by the truthful, pious person (muslim)"

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/30...eethfuture.htm

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[Zafran]

salaam

Yeah theres alot of other information about christ to - i'll try to find some.

peace

[Follower]

Are muslims saying that at the present time Jesus has not done anything that makes Him the Messiah? The title Messiah will be fulfilled by actions Jesus will do in the future?

Gossamer skye - are these in hadith or some kind of scripture?

[AntiKarateKid]

Are muslims saying that at the present time Jesus has not done anything that makes Him the Messiah? The title Messiah will be fulfilled by actions Jesus will do in the future?

Gossamer skye - are these in hadith or some kind of scripture?

Why do you say "THE Messiah"? There were many other messiahs and christs in the Bible such as Cyrus the Great. The Quran says "the messiah" because it is directing its language at people like you who insist on capitalizing the "M' in messiah and adding "the" before it.

[جوري]

Again, on the concept of the Messiah .. perhaps this time it will be read?

by Ahmad Deedat

The word CHRIST is derived from the Hebrew word Messiah, Arabic-Masih. Root word m-a-s-a-h-a, meaning to rub, to massage, to anoint. Priests and kings were anointed when being consecrated to their offices. But in its translated, Grecian form "CHRIST", it seems unique:befitting Jesus only. The Christian has a knack of transmuting baser metals into shining gold. What he is wont to do is to translate names into his own language like "cephas" to Peter, "messiah" to Christ. How does he do that? Very easily MESSIAH in Hebrew means anointed. The Greek word for anointed is "christos". Just lop off the 'os' from christos and you are left with christ. Now change the little 'c' to a capital 'C', and "hey, presto!" he has created a unique (?) name! Christos means ANOINTED, and anointed means APPOINTED in its religious connotation. Jesus (pbuh) was appointed (anointed) at his baptism by John the Baptist, as God's Messenger.Every Prophet of God is so anointed or appointed. The Holy Bible is replete with the "anointed" ones. In the original Hebrew - made a "messiah". Let us keep to the English translation - "anointed." Not only were prophets and priests and kings anointed (christos-ed), but borns, and cherubs and lamp-posts also.

I am the God of Beth-el, where you ANOINTED a pillar.....

Genesis 31:13

If the priest that is ANOINTED do sin....

Leviticus 4:3

And Moses....ANOINTED the tabernacle and all things that was therein...

Leviticus 8:10

...THE LORD SHALL....EXALT THE HORN OF HIS ANOINTED

1 Samuel 2:10

Thus saith the Lord to his ANOINTED to Cyrus....

Isaiah 45:1

Thou art the ANOINTED cherub....

Ezekiel 28:14

There are a hundred more such references in the Holy Bible. Everytime you come across the word ANOINTED in your English Bible, you can take it that that word would be christos in the Greek translations, and if you take the same liberty with the word that the Christians have done, you will have - Christ Cherub, Christ Cyrus, Christ Priest and Christ Pillar, etc.
SOME TITLES EXCLUSIVE

Although, every prophet of God is an ANOINTED one of God - a Messiah, the title "Masih" or "Messiah" or its translation "CHRIST" is exclusively reserved for Jesus, the son of Mary, in both Islam and in Christianity. This is not unusual in religion. There are certain other honorific title which may be applied to more than one prophet, yet being made exclusive to one by usage: like "Rasul-lullah", meaning Messenger of God, which title is applied to both Moses (19:51) and Jesus (61:6) in the Holy Quran. Yet "Rasul-lullah" has become synonymous only with the Prophet of Islam among Muslims.
Every prophet is indeed a FRIEND OF GOD, but its Arabic equivalent "Kha- lil-lullah" is exclusively associated with Father Abraham. This does not mean that the others are not God's friends. "Kalimul-lah" (One who spoke with God) is never used for anyone other than Moses, yet we believe that God spoke with all His Messengers, including Jesus and Muhummed (May the Peace and Blessings of God be upon all His servants). Associating certain titles with certain personages only, does not make them exclusive or unique in any way. We honour all in varying terms.

[Grace Seeker]

Although, every prophet of God is an ANOINTED one of God - a Messiah, the title "Masih" or "Messiah" or its translation "CHRIST" is exclusively reserved for Jesus, the son of Mary, in both Islam and in Christianity. This is not unusual in religion. There are certain other honorific title which may be applied to more than one prophet, yet being made exclusive to one by usage: like "Rasul-lullah", meaning Messenger of God, which title is applied to both Moses (19:51) and Jesus (61:6) in the Holy Quran. Yet "Rasul-lullah" has become synonymous only with the Prophet of Islam among Muslims.
Every prophet is indeed a FRIEND OF GOD, but its Arabic equivalent "Kha- lil-lullah" is exclusively associated with Father Abraham. This does not mean that the others are not God's friends. "Kalimul-lah" (One who spoke with God) is never used for anyone other than Moses, yet we believe that God spoke with all His Messengers, including Jesus and Muhummed (May the Peace and Blessings of God be upon all His servants). Associating certain titles with certain personages only, does not make them exclusive or unique in any way. We honour all in varying terms.

Doesn't this (the above) explain why Christians would use THE Christ to refer exclusively to Jesus or why Muslims might use THE Prophet to refer exclusively to Muhammed? It isn't that we don't recognize the legitimacy of the application of the terms to others, but that Christians understand Jesus to indeed be uniquely annointed by God for his ministry reconciling all of humanity to himself, and Muhammad is understood by Muslims to be uniquely an instrument of God in giving God's Word to all of humanity.

So while there may be many messiahs and many prophets, when Christians speak of THE Messiah it is specifically in reference to Jesus and none other. And when Muslims speak of THE Prophet it is specifically in reference to Muhammed.

[AntiKarateKid]

Doesn't this (the above) explain why Christians would use THE Christ to refer exclusively to Jesus or why Muslims might use THE Prophet to refer exclusively to Muhammed? It isn't that we don't recognize the legitimacy of the application of the terms to others, but that Christians understand Jesus to indeed be uniquely annointed by God for his ministry reconciling all of humanity to himself, and Muhammad is understood by Muslims to be uniquely an instrument of God in giving God's Word to all of humanity.

So while there may be many messiahs and many prophets, when Christians speak of THE Messiah it is specifically in reference to Jesus and none other. And when Muslims speak of THE Prophet it is specifically in reference to Muhammed.

I disagree Seeker.

We believe Isa pbuh was only sent to the Jews remember? So that makes him no different than the other ones sent to their own people. In the case of Muhammad pbuh, he was the only one who had a message for all of mankind.

In addition to this, I doubt saying "a prophet Muhammad" would make more more grammatical sense than "the prophet Muhammad". So you can argue that we aren't using the word "the" to single him out.

Both of these explainations seems valid to me but I'm leaning toward the latter.

[Zafran]

Salaam

The concept of the Messiah is the specific station of Isa (as) - the anoited one - Just like all prophets have a specific and unique station inculding Muhammad, Moses, Abhrham pbut and other prophets.

peace

[Follower]

I don't think my question Are muslims saying that at the present time Jesus has not done anything that makes Him the Messiah? was answered, maybe there is no answer!

Was Mohammad annointed/messiah? Who are the other messiah/annointed?

the Messiah is the specific station of Isa - What are the duties of a messiah/annointed?

Was Gossamer skye's long post in blue - hadith or some kind of scripture?

[Zafran]

the Messiah is the specific station of Isa - What are the duties of a messiah/annointed?

Was Gossamer skye's long post in blue - hadith or some kind of scripture?

The Duties of the messiah - one is to overthrow the imposter messiah and establish the law of God on earth.

They are hadiths about the prophecies of Prophet Muhammad pbuh.

[ragdollcat1982]

I disagree Seeker.

We believe Isa pbuh was only sent to the Jews remember? So that makes him no different than the other ones sent to their own people. In the case of Muhammad pbuh, he was the only one who had a message for all of mankind.

In addition to this, I doubt saying "a prophet Muhammad" would make more more grammatical sense than "the prophet Muhammad". So you can argue that we aren't using the word "the" to single him out.

Both of these explainations seems valid to me but I'm leaning toward the latter.

Jesus came for all of mankind although he was a Jew. I believe that Muhammed (PBUH) was a messanger and I dont doubt that he had a revelation. But I liken him to Paul who was a messanger and teacher who did also have a vision for the gentiles, I believe Muhammed initally had a message intially for the pagan Arabs, but that extended also to mankind. But neither Paul nor Muhammed did things like Jesus did in the sense of peforming the miracles he or the OT prophets did. Paul did exoricisms, but other than that he was an ordinary man.

[جوري]

Doesn't this (the above) explain why Christians would use THE Christ to refer exclusively to Jesus or why Muslims might use THE Prophet to refer exclusively to Muhammed? It isn't that we don't recognize the legitimacy of the application of the terms to others, but that Christians understand Jesus to indeed be uniquely annointed by God for his ministry reconciling all of humanity to himself, and Muhammad is understood by Muslims to be uniquely an instrument of God in giving God's Word to all of humanity.

So while there may be many messiahs and many prophets, when Christians speak of THE Messiah it is specifically in reference to Jesus and none other. And when Muslims speak of THE Prophet it is specifically in reference to Muhammed.

Isn't God and Jesus one in the same? so God anointed himself? in fact it was John the baptist that anointed him, as they do kings, it was to symbolize his prophethood, no more no less, else we'd go on worshiping tables, and angels and the 70 things anointed.. I know you want it to be more than what it is, but being oiled doesn't equate with being God, much less bearing the message for other than one strayed tribe!

all the best

[Grace Seeker]

I disagree Seeker.

What is it you disagree with? That "this explain[s] why Christians would use THE Christ to refer exclusively to Jesus or why Muslims might use THE Prophet to refer exclusively to Muhammed"? That Christians are correct to speak this way about Jesus? Or that Muslims do speak this way about Muhammed?

We believe Isa pbuh was only sent to the Jews remember? So that makes him no different than the other ones sent to their own people. In the case of Muhammad pbuh, he was the only one who had a message for all of mankind.

Yes, I do remember that these are your views. I wasn't challenging those views, only suggesting why, given the different beliefs that we have, that people of different faiths might make use of these same terms in different ways.

In addition to this, I doubt saying "a prophet Muhammad" would make more more grammatical sense than "the prophet Muhammad". So you can argue that we aren't using the word "the" to single him out.

But if I Muslim wrote, "I accept as true the teachings of the Prophet." while techincially it could be referring to any prophet, is there any doubt as to which prophet is meant. For instance, LI has a whole section devoted to "companions of the Prophet". While there are many prophets in Islam, I note that I don't see any threads in that section on companions of any prophet other than Muhammad. That is what I meant by saying the Muslims speak of Muhammad as THE Prophet and also why I still think that what I observe in common ordinary discussion is that Muslims do use the term "the Prophet" to single Muhammad out.

More personally, as I've pointed out in the past, even I could say that I seek to live in submission to Allah and believe Muhammad was A prophet of Allah, but I could not say that he was THE Prophet of Allah. Somehow, I don't think that my profession will be sufficient to be considered a Muslim.

But in contrast to that, while I understand that historically there are many who were received God's anointing and might properly be termed a messiah, don't even Muslims recognize the unique anointing of Jesus when they also term him as THE Messiah?

[Grace Seeker]

Isn't God and Jesus one in the same? so God anointed himself? in fact it was John the baptist that anointed him, as they do kings, it was to symbolize his prophethood, no more no less, else we'd go on worshiping tables, and angels and the 70 things anointed.. I know you want it to be more than what it is, but being oiled doesn't equate with being God, much less bearing the message for other than one strayed tribe!

all the best

We don't worship Jesus because he is THE Messiah, so anointing things wouldn't be sufficient to cause one to worship them either.

And John didn't anoint Jesus; he baptized Jesus. While in some circumstances the two acts may accompany one another, they are distinctly different acts. I may be mistaken, but I don't recall any statements, in the Bible at least, about John anointing anyone.

[جوري]

We don't worship Jesus because he is THE Messiah, so anointing things wouldn't be sufficient to cause one to worship them either.

And John didn't anoint Jesus; he baptized Jesus. While in some circumstances the two acts may accompany one another, they are distinctly different acts. I may be mistaken, but I don't recall any statements, in the Bible at least, about John anointing anyone.

Anoint seems to hold some significance in christian literature, not so in Islam, as explained above by Dr. Deedat. I can't feign to understand why you worship a man who was anointed by God of whom he and God happens to be the same with a silent component whose job is annunciations .. perhaps you need a group of scholars to figure out the math or the significance.. I believe that the concept of God, the one that has always been is far less adulterated than all of that, and according to Islam it was that alleged baptism that denoted his anointment. You are certanly free to believe that God anointed God by some other means though..

all the best

[ragdollcat1982]

We don't worship Jesus because he is THE Messiah, so anointing things wouldn't be sufficient to cause one to worship them either.

And John didn't anoint Jesus; he baptized Jesus. While the two acts may accompany one another, they are distinctly different acts.

Are you saying that Christians dont worship Jesus or am I misreading this? I most certainly do worship Jesus as he is God. One only needs to read the Gospel of John in its entirety to understand this. Pay Particular attention to John 10.


http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...2010&version=9




http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...0;&version=28;

[Grace Seeker]

Are you saying that Christians dont worship Jesus or am I misreading this? I most certainly do worship Jesus as he is God.

No, I'm not saying that Christians don't worship Jesus. We most certainly do. I don't see how one could claim to be a Christian and at the same time not claim to worship Jesus.

What I was saying is that we don't worship Jesus because he is THE Messiah -- if that were the reason, then Muslims are right we would just be worshipping a human being. Rather, we worship Jesus because we believe him to be the God of the universe who also lowered himself to come incarnated among us.

(Yeah, I know. The Islamic response to such a statement is "Astaghfirullāh". But I don't say it to be insulting or to promote such beliefs on an Islamic board, I only say it to properly express what it is that Christians believe in response to a question.)

[Imam]

Greetings ,

Another interesting topic....

as a matter of fact the issue of the Messiah is one issue most Muslims not aware yet of how important and inspiring in the field of comparative religions...

and the vision for such issue is still foggy for most Muslims.

What is the concept of Messiahship in Islam?

In the Quran nothing goes beyond the term than A title the people used to call Jesus by.....

3:45 Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah.

Did Jesus fulfill these criteria

What criteria?

The Quranic?
There are no criteria in the Quran for a person to fulfill in order to attain messiahship .


The Tanakhs criteria?
The Quran never said a word about Jesus fulfilling the tankahs criteria for the Messsiah king....



and as the Quran depicts Jesus in a form contradict what the tankah says about the Messiah, then the Quran tells indirectly,that the messianic structure in the tankah is a fabrication....



Jesus in the Quran had a specific prophetic normal mission .....

but was rejected by most of the Jews and they conspired to kill him,but God protected him from being killed...

it is argued that his role is stretched beyond mere a messenger for a specific people at a specific time ,but the proofs for that should be at least questionable....


that was an introduction,and more depending on your posts


peace for all

[Shoes]

In the Quran nothing goes beyond the term than A title the people used to call Jesus by.....

Thanks, Imam, for your reply. So, to clarify, are you saying that the word "Messiah" has no significance in Islam other than as a name referring to Jesus?

Salam,
Shoes

[Grace Seeker]

Thanks, Imam, for your reply. So, to clarify, are you saying that the word "Messiah" has no significance in Islam other than as a name referring to Jesus?

Salam,
Shoes

Imam, what I understood you to say is that the word "Messiah" has no signficance in Islam other than as the title of a particular office (or role) that Jesus happened to hold. (One that others might have also held as well.)

Please clarify. Thanks.

[AntiKarateKid]

Jesus came for all of mankind although he was a Jew. I believe that Muhammed (PBUH) was a messanger and I dont doubt that he had a revelation. But I liken him to Paul who was a messanger and teacher who did also have a vision for the gentiles, I believe Muhammed initally had a message intially for the pagan Arabs, but that extended also to mankind. But neither Paul nor Muhammed did things like Jesus did in the sense of peforming the miracles he or the OT prophets did. Paul did exoricisms, but other than that he was an ordinary man.

What miracles would you cite that prove Jesus in God? And did jesus ever say those miracles were to prove that? I'm interested in hearing your response.

[Zafran]

Imam, what I understood you to say is that the word "Messiah" has no signficance in Islam other than as the title of a particular office (or role) that Jesus happened to hold. (One that others might have also held as well.)

Please clarify. Thanks.

ofcourse it has a signifcance it shows the station of chirst - He also is called the spirit of God - Isa (as) has many names they clearly have meaning.

[Grace Seeker]

I hope i answered grace seeker too
peace

Yes, but I don't see yours and Zafran's answers squaring with each other's answer. Do the two of you see your answers as being in harmony with each other's?

[Imam]

Yes, but I don't see yours and Zafran's answers squaring with each other's answer. Do the two of you see your answers as being in harmony with each other's?

disagreement with mutual respect gives flavor to discussion.... especially in an issue like that ....

[Grace Seeker]

disagreement with mutual respect gives flavor to discussion.... especially in an issue like that ....

I agree. I wasn't dissing either of you nor your respective comments. My goodness, the local Catholic priest and I are worlds apart in some things, but we recognize those things as minor compared to the unity that we have as brothers in Christ. In fact, he is moving later this month and all of the area protestant pastors are getting together and holding a farewell party. He has been in this community longer than any of us and his contribution is going to be sorely missed.

I was just asking because it might have been that, while I was seeing something, it was so small that it meant nothing to the two of you.

[Follower]

'The Duties of the messiah - one is to overthrow the imposter messiah and establish the law of God on earth.'

Ok. A future event. Thanks. Who is the imposter messiah?

They are hadiths about the prophecies of Prophet Muhammad pbuh.

Thanks

[GreyKode]

Uh-OH Follower is losing it.
Try to get a hold of yourself.

[Follower]

LOL! GreyKode-'Uh-OH Follower is losing it.
Try to get a hold of yourself.'

I expect it from Gossamer et tu GreyKode?

Attack the Christian whenever possible:
http://www.compassdirect.org/en/disp...yname=&rowcur=

What are the prophecies about this imposter messiah?

[جوري]

go look em up at one of your informative sites!

[جوري]

and this one is just for you

Christian Rioters Burn Mosques in Southern Nigeria
http://www.voanews.com/english/archi...68141a21495935

just so you'd be uptodate on christian love

[جوري]

The death of Jesus as per Quran is understood to mean advent to his second coming, since he is mere mortal he'll die like the rest of mankind, it is to signify his humanity rather than his godhood. pls read this

Name of Questioner

Abu Muadz

Title

Prophet `Isa’s (Jesus) Ascension

Question

As-Salamu `alaykum! Please kindly furnish us with Islamic ruling concerning the ascension of Prophet `Isa (peace be upon him) and his coming back to life? Jazakum Allah khayran!

Date

31/Mar/2004

Name of Counsellor

Group of Muftis

Topic

Muslim Belief

Answer

Wa `alaykum As-Salamu wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh.

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Dear brother, we would like to thank you for the great confidence you place in us, and we implore Allah Almighty to help us serve His cause and render our work for His Sake.

As regards your question, the late Sheikh Jadul-Haq `Ali Jadul-Haq, former Grand Sheikh of Al-Azhar, states the following:

"Allah Almighty has told us of the end of Jesus (peace be upon him) in three surahs in the Qur’an that came as follows:

1) In surat Al `Imran, we read: “When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: ‘Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah?’ Said the disciples: ‘We are Allah’s helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims. Our Lord! We believe in what Thou hast revealed, and we follow the Messenger; then write us down among those who bear witness.’ And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah. Behold! Allah said: ‘O Jesus! I will take thee (mutawaffika) and raise thee to Myself (wa rafi`uka ilayya) and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto Me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.’” (Al `Imran: 52-55)

2) Also in surat An-Nisa’, Allah says: “That they said (in boast), ‘We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah’; but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not: Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself (bal Rafa`ahu Allahu ilayhi); and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.” (An-Nisa’: 157-158)

3) Again in surat Al-Ma’idah, we read: “And behold! Allah will say: ‘O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah?’ He will say: ‘Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden. Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up (tawaffaytani) Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things’.” (Al-Ma’idah: 116-117)

The Arabic word “mutawaffika” is derived from the root “tawaffa” and is referred always in the Qur’an as meaning “to cause someone to die”. However, the word originally means “taking”. One says: “tawaffaytu min fulanin ma liya `alayhi”. Meaning: “I have taken back my debt from so and so”. It also means “To make someone fall asleep”. This meaning is mentioned in the Qur’anic verse that reads: “It is He who doth take your souls (yatawaffakum) by night, and hath knowledge of all that ye have done by day: by day doth He raise you up (yab`athukum) again; that a term appointed be fulfilled; In the end unto Him will be your return; then will He show you the truth of all that ye did.” (Al-An`am: 60)

In this verse the word “yatawaffakum” means “make you fall asleep during the night”. In the same context, the word “yab`athukum” (revive or quicken you) is used to refer to the meaning that He awakens you during the day. Based on the above, we can say that the words “mutawaffika”and “tawaffaytani” may mean “made you fall asleep” and “when you made me fall asleep”. (See: Fatawa Ibn Taymiyyah,vol. 4, pp. 322-323 and Al-Bidayah wan-Nihayah by Ibn Kathir, vol. 2 p. 91)

The Explanation of the phrases “bal Rafa`ahu Allahu ilayhi” and “wa rafi`uka ilayya”:

The majority of the exegetes of the Qur’an are of the view that the two phrases refer to Jesus’ ascension to the heavens and the first phrase “bal Rafa`ahu Allahu ilayhi” is an assertion of the fulfillment of Allah’s promise to him that He would make him ascend to the heavens.

The ascension referred to in the Qur’an includes both material and non-material aspects. Non-material here means ascension in place and honor (giving a high place and lofty status). Since we are to accept the idea of ascension as a way of saving Jesus from his archenemies, we are to say there must have been real death or sleeping that preceded the process of ascension. Modern scientific research has shown that the higher man ascends the more constricted his chest becomes and the more difficult it is for him to breathe. Allah says, “Those whom Allah (in His plan) willeth to guide, He openeth their breast to Islam; those whom He willeth to leave straying, He maketh their breast close and constricted, as if they had to climb up to the skies: thus doth Allah (heap) the penalty on those who refuse to believe.” (Al-An`am: 125) By the same token, taking Jesus up while still awake would have inflicted hardship on him.

All in all, Allah Almighty has taken Jesus up and saved him from killing and crucifixion. In other words, he either made him die (tawaffah) or made him fall asleep (tawaffah). All this was meant to save him from the pains he might have been subjected to in case he was taken up while still awake. Also, the meaning may be that he was taken up while still alive.

After this quick review of these Qur’anic verses, we come to know that scholars hold different views on this very issue.

The Preponderant View:

The view I find myself inclined to is that Allah Almighty has taken Jesus up from among his enemies, rescuing him from them. Hence, they neither killed nor crucified him as Christians claim. His enemies were in fact confused with regards to him. At any rate, he was saved, but how? We do not know.

The Qur’anic verses do not point out the way he was saved and, with a case like this, we are to remain silent and pose no more questions about the matter since this will get us nowhere. What is really established is that Allah Almighty did not allow the Jews to arrest Jesus nor to crucify him. It is also well clarified by the verses that Jesus found an escape and was taken up to heavens. Allah says: “For of a surety they killed him not: Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself ( bal Rafa`ahu Allahu ilayhi); and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.” (An-Nisa’: 157-158)

What Muslims should believe in:

A sound belief of every Muslim should be that Jesus was taken up and saved from killing and crucifixion. Anyone who believes in the idea that Jesus was killed and crucified can no longer be called a Muslim.

As for Jesus’ being taken up, whether dead or alive and the nature of the life he is now leading, scholars hold different views in this regard, as this is not decisively established in the Qur’an. The majority of scholars adopt the view that Jesus is still alive in the heavens and leading a life the nature of which we do not really know.

Jesus’ Return:

The general implication of the narrations in the books of Sunnah is that Jesus will come back in the end calling for Islam and application of the Shari`ah. In Fath Al-Bari, (vol. 6, pp. 490-494), we read that Abu Hurayrah reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings upon him) said: “By the One in Whose hand is my soul! The Son of Mary is about to come back as a just ruler who will break the cross, kill the swine and cancel the tribute, and money will be so great in amount that no one will be in need of it and one act of prostration will be more lovable to a person than the whole world and every thing in it.” Then, Abu Hurayrah recited: “And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them.” (An-Nisa’: 159) In his Sahih, Imam Muslim reported this hadith with the addition: “…and kill the Dajjal (Anti-Christ).””

Sheikh M. S. Al-Munajjid, a prominent Saudi Muslim lecturer and author, adds:

“Allah Almighty has mentioned to us that Jesus was taken up to the heavens and said: “Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself (bal Rafa`ahu Allahu ilayhi); and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.” (An-Nisa’: 158) He mentioned not that he has come back to the earth. Those who claim that he has come back to earth are asked to offer evidence for their claims. If they are not able to bring about any evidence, they are to know that their claims are groundless.

Allah also says: “Behold! Allah said: ‘O Jesus! I will take thee (mutawaffika) and raise thee to Myself (wa rafi`uka ilayya) and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto Me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.’” (Al `Imran: 52-55)

Ibn Jarir states: “(mutawaffika) here refers to his ascension”. Other scholars, however, say that it refers to sleeping as is the case with the verse that reads: “It is He who doth take your souls (yatawaffakum) by night, and hath knowledge of all that ye have done by day: by day doth He raise you up again; that a term appointed be fulfilled; In the end unto Him will be your return; then will He show you the truth of all that ye did.” (Al-An`am: 60)

On getting up, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) used to say: “Praise be to Allah Who brought us life after he caused us to die and unto Him will be our turning back.”

Therefore, Jesus did not die; rather, he was taken up when the Jews tried to arrest and kill him and he will come back at the end of the time and rule the land with Islam. He will live till Allah causes him to die and will be offered funeral prayer by Muslims.”

You can also read:

Status of Prophet `Isa (Jesus): Islamic View

Facts about the Second Coming of Jesus



:w:

[AntiKarateKid]

'The Duties of the messiah - one is to overthrow the imposter messiah and establish the law of God on earth.'

Ok. A future event. Thanks. Who is the imposter messiah?

They are hadiths about the prophecies of Prophet Muhammad pbuh.

Thanks

The imposter one is the guy that comes second. So there really is no way we could possibly choose the imposter.

[AntiKarateKid]

Imam, though I am not knowledgeable in these things, the disregarding of ijma made me do a double take at your post. The sorta childish question like "are they allowed to do that?" popped into my mind. And I thought there were hadiths in Sahih Bukhari about the second coming? I'm feeling really confused about what we're supposed to believe here.

I wonder if a separate thread about something like ijma would be a good idea.

[AntiKarateKid]

when I say Ijma I mean the scholarly consensus for over 1200 years over majority of the scholars (Not just the Imams) - furthermore Imam Al Thawi has been the accepted aqeada of Sunni Islam and the scholars for over 1200 years - many scholars have read it and studied/ taught it - I doubt that its wrong like you claim .

There is a more of chance for you to miss that facts then the consensus of majority of the scholars for over 1200 years.

I think we need a mod before this gets out of hand. Or someone that can clear this situition up.

ps I wasnt talking about



But the Ijma of scholars for 1200 years - The Quran and the Muttawatir hadiths have to be interpreated and the consensus by scholars have accepted the aqeada of the return of christ - it is the mainstream position as stated in the accepted creed of Imam al Thawi

Why do we need a mod and how is this getting out of hand? Nothing is wrong here and we are starting to have an interesting discussion.

[Zafran]

Why do we need a mod and how is this getting out of hand? Nothing is wrong here and we are starting to have an interesting discussion.

Because this thread is about "concept of Messiah in Islam" which is very clear in meanstream islam - Other "opinions" are going to confuse people.

[Shoes]

I've personally found the dialogue very interesting, and would like to see more about the different ways Messiahship is viewed within Islam.

Salam,
Shoes

[Follower]

Are there prophecies about how this imposter will act or what he will say in the quran?

[Imam]

I would interrupt the Dajjal issue a little to comment on a post(which is related to our discussion) of our friend Grace/seeker in another thread...and later resume ....

if salaam is a peace that comes from God more than it comes from circumstances, it does leave me wondering why it should be inferred from this passage any substantiation that John and Jesus had to die non-violent deaths? Could they not still be experiencing God's peace even as others where treating them in unpeaceful ways?

peace could be Salutation

[010:010] (This will be) their cry therein: "Glory to Thee, O God!" And "Peace" will be their greeting therein! and the close of their cry will be: "Praise be to God, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds!"

[019:062] They will not there hear any vain discourse, but only salutations of Peace: And they will have therein their sustenance, morning and evening.

[037:109] "Peace and salutation to Abraham!"

peace could be internal feeling(peace of mind,satisfaction in spite of hardships)

Peace as security....

[011:048] The word came: "O Noah! Come down (from the Ark) with peace from Us, and blessing on thee and on some of the peoples from those with thee.



In the case of Jesus and even John,they are the only Prophets mentioned in the Quran with this affirmation of peace on birth,and death..

Why the peace in their case has to be Security? the Quran answers you:


[019:033] "So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"!

1- It doesn't require a great deal of wisdom to know that the day Jesus was born, he doesn't know yet what internal peace means....
what internal peace would a new born get?!


2- The peace the new born had came from circumstances, he was in a very hard situation and even in danger to lose life...

his mother is alone having the pains of delivery ,and her first experience yet to give birth,without any help from anyone....

and after his birth she was suspected of being adulterer and her child as a son of fornication......

so Jesus was exposed to the risk of death while delivery and even after birth ,as sons of fornication were exposed to fatal hurt from the community ....
God make him speak and saved him...


John the baptist was born from old woman and was exposed again to the risk of such delivery of the old women...

They both were exposed to be killed but were saved,and died in peace.

and the day of judgment they will be saved from Hell and enjoy the peace of Paradise

[013:024] "Peace unto you for that ye persevered in patience! Now how excellent is the final home!"

[016:032] (Namely) those whose lives the angels take in a state of purity, saying (to them), "Peace be on you; enter ye the Garden, because of (the good) which ye did (in the world)."


Thanx Grace seeker....

and I hope all reader react with my posts and we get benefited from each other...

peace for all.....

[Grace Seeker]

As I read what you wrote about peace, it actaully seems to confirm that basically there is no reason to jump to any conclusions about either John's or Jesus's death being necessarily non-violent, yet I know you've reached a different conclusion. I wonder what we are seeing differently?

[alcurad]

the verses speak of Jesus saying: peace be upon me, the day I'm born, the day I die, and the day I'm resurrected.

so I think the argument goes, that the peace he speaks of, is the same peace throughout the three stages: birth, death and resurrection since there is nothing to indicate otherwise. so it's the peace of salutation and praise from God, as well as internal peace, also security and perseverance from threats.

[Imam]

As I read what you wrote about peace, it

actaully seems to confirm that basically there is no reason to jump to

any conclusions about either John's or Jesus's death being necessarily

non-violent, yet I know you've reached a different conclusion. I

wonder what we are seeing differently?

I'm a little amazed how my post let you think there is no reason to

jump to any conclusions about either John's or Jesus's death being

necessarily non-violent!

I argued that the peace in the verse HAS TO BE security from violence

If the peace in birth Has to be security from violence and hurt (proved

from the Quran itself)

so peace in Death Has to be security from violence and hurth (again

proved from the Quran ,They neither killed him nor crucified him &

Behold I did restrain the children of Israel from violence to you)

and peace in day of judgment from the fate of those been taken as gods

while the fate of those been taken as gods the pain of Hell,

21:98 Verily ye, (unbelievers), and the (false) gods that ye worship
besides Allah, are (but) fuel for Hell! to it will ye (surely) come!
, some will defend themselves and be saved from condemnation to Hell

some of those been taken as false gods will be saved from such serious situation,

19:82 They worship beside GOD other gods that (they think) may be of help to them. Instead, they shall reject their worship, and become adversaries against them.

[25:17] On the day when He summons them, together with the gods they had set up beside GOD, He will say, "Have you misled these servants of Mine, or did they go astray on their own?" They will say: "Glory to Thee! not meet was it for us that we should take for protectors others besides Thee.


5:116 And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah.?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.

In sum
Jesus would be saved from three critical situations , exposed him to hurt in both birth,death,day of Judgment ...

The meaning of internal peace is skipped once the word (the day I was born) mentioned .....

A new born wouldn't realized the meaning of satisfaction and internal peace yet...... but would have ,no doubt, external peace from danger of delivery with a woman been alone and first time delivery and a community suspect her of adultery and him of being a bastar*.........

peace

[Grace Seeker]

A new born wouldn't realized the meaning of satisfaction and internal peace yet...... but would have ,no doubt, external peace from danger of delivery with a woman been alone and first time delivery and a community suspect her of adultery and him of being a bastar*.........

peace

But you lost me right there. While newborn wouldn't realize it, a newborn could indeed experience it. In fact it would seem most logical that for a newborn, he would not know the difference between the violence of the outside world and a peaceful outside world, for both are foreign to him. What he knows however is the peace of being in his mother's arms. That peace is something that he can experience no matter the circumstances. Jesus' world was anything but peaceful at the time of his birth, but he had peace in the security not of lack of violence but the presence of his mother. At the time of his death, would also have security not from lack of violence but the presence of his Father. Both of these are true irregardless of the circumstances of his life. That is why I saw these passages differently than you.

[Imam]

That peace is something that he can experience no matter the circumstances. Jesus' world was anything but peaceful at the time of his birth, but he had peace in the security not of lack of violence but the presence of his mother.

Now you made it clear for me ,How would you understand the verse

your understanding is both incomplete and influenced by the argument ,our friend Greenville presented before:

you suggest God inspired that verse to tell us that Jesus was between his mother's arms and in a good mood the day he was born !

but didn't you realize that without the act of protection (baby Jesus talk),the people would have stoned Mary for fornication,and hence no way for Jesus to enjoy her arms and motherly affection?

also the baby as been exposed to lose his life (and his mother too) while delivery in the wilderness alone with none to give a hand.....

the peace while birth in the verse means protection ,and any other suggestions would be shallow....

At the time of his death, would also have security not from lack of violence but the presence of his Father. .

back again to the argument of Greenville?

that Jesus been crucified but had security inside?


well, Jesus never been crucified or had any kind of violent death

4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him.

[005:110] And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from violence to you.

Even in the NT,it seems that Jesus never had security inside the day he died as his father has forsaken him:

Matthew 27:45-46, 46And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying,"My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?"

anyway the Bible is not our issue...it is the Quran and it is crystal clear why you understood the verse this way, as you want it the Greenville way,and we have shown where he erred before.....

peace

[Follower]

Now I see the need to define peace-

Peace to me and I believe most Christians would be knowing that they are in the hands of the Father- no matter what happens in this life- violence, they have the knowledge that the Father will protect them -> they will be in heaven with Him.

The ultimate peace- being with GOD for eternity.

[Imam]

Peace to me and I believe most Christians would be knowing that they are in the hands of the Father- no matter what happens in this life- violence, they have the knowledge that the Father will protect them -> they will be in heaven with Him.
.

And we are here talking about what the peace in its earthly meaning,or what peace Jesus had ,before his spirit got in heaven...


Either Allah inspired The verse to affirm the in spite of the physical harm around Jesus in birth,death, judgment day ...Allah saved and will save him

Or Allah inspired the verse to affirm , in spite of the physical harm Jesus had ,he had internal peace and satisfaction...


The second is the one , our friend Grace-seeker and Greenville ,as well, suggested !!

the basic weakness of such understanding is that we are reading the Quran,and not the Bible

Jesus neither had any harm either in birth or during death,or will in Day of judgment,in order for us to claim though the violence he had security inside !........

What if a book claims that peace was upon X the day it was crucified
?
It means though crucifixion he had internal peace .

What if a book claims that peace was upon X the day wasn't crucified
?
It means though danger he was protected.

and that is the difference between the Bible and the Quran ....

The peace in heaven that you mention is well known to all believers Muslims and others....

we hope to enjoy such eternal peace beside our creator in paradise...

and you are waiting too,but I'm afraid you may be waiting mere an illusion,and a state of peace you will never enjoy.....

[Grace Seeker]

And we are here talking about what the peace in its earthly meaning,or what peace Jesus had ,before his spirit got in heaven...


Either Allah inspired The verse to affirm the in spite of the physical harm around Jesus in birth,death, judgment day ...Allah saved and will save him

Or Allah inspired the verse to affirm , in spite of the physical harm Jesus had ,he had internal peace and satisfaction...


The second is the one , our friend Grace-seeker and Greenville ,as well, suggested !!

the basic weakness of such understanding is that we are reading the Quran,and not the Bible

Yes, we are talking about the word "peace" as used in the Qur'an, but the meaning of the word salaam isn't limited to just the external form of peace you mention. The internal sense of peace even in unpeaceful times is very much a part of its meaning. Why would you ignore what the word itself means just because a few Christians happen to identifiy with it?

Jesus neither had any harm either in birth or during death,or will in Day of judgment,in order for us to claim though the violence he had security inside !........


What if a book claims that peace was upon X the day it was crucified
?
It means though crucifixion he had internal peace .

What if a book claims that peace was upon X the day wasn't crucified
?
It means though danger he was protected.

and that is the difference between the Bible and the Quran ....

I'm not trying to bring a Biblical understanding of crucifixion to the passage in the Qur'an. I AM suggesting that to use a passage that speaks of peace when that peace can be understood just based on language alone as referring to both an internal peace and external, and then select as its meaning only the external version of peace in order to substantiate the other Qur'anic passages that speak of the absence of crucifixion is to do a disservice to the Qur'an itself and force it to say more than it is actually saying in that particular passage.

[Imam]

well let's reset the argument:

my argument with you as follows:


why it should be inferred from this passage any substantiation that John and Jesus had to die non-violent deaths?


If we imagine that the verse to be read alone in isolation from the Quranic story of Jesus,though we can't guess yet whether the meaning should be internal or external peace or both, it will put in our minds a big question why, apart from all the prophets mentioned in the Quran ,God used such structure affirming peace on him in such 3 occasions ,why him?why no peace on Abraham the day he was born, etc...why no peace on Moses the the day he was born, etc... also why no peace on Jesus in other occasions eg,the day he preached the gospel ,the day he performed miracles,the day he ate from the table ?....... why the focus on birth,death,judgment?


All these questions are answered in the Quran:


In birth peace(protection) was be upon him :

"So she conceived him, and she withdrew with him to a far place . And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a date-palm. She said:'Would that I had died before this, and had been forgotten and out of sight!'"Then she brought him (the baby) to her people, carrying him. They said:'O Maryam! Indeed you have brought a thing which is greatly evil!
He (The baby) said:'I am a servant of Allah , He has given me the Scriptures and made me a Prophet; And He has made me blessed wheresoever I be, and enjoined on me Salat (prayer), and Zakat as long as I live. And dutiful to my mother and made me not arrogant, unblest. And peace be upon me the day I was born, and the day I shall be raised alive ' "(Quran 19:29-33)


The baby made it clear...I'm not such kind of babies you expect(bastar/) I will be a prophet and not only none will ever touch me or my mother (eg,stoning) today but also the day I will die none will hurt me.....

Death:

"When Allah said, O Jesus, I will cause you to die and will raise you to myself, and will clear thee of those who disbelieve, and will place those who follow thee above those who disbelieve, until the Day of Resurrection, then to Me shall be your return and I will judge between you concerning that wherein you differ." (3:56)

The circumstances are the same and the promise God put in his mouth while a baby to be fulfilled, and as the day he was born passed in peace ,the day he die would pass in peace too.....
none ever touched him and his blessed soul raised to Allah,and his true followers are indeed above (in morality ,a statue of nearness to Allah)those who disbelieve ,and the true followers will continue superior to the nonbelievers TILL DAY OF JUDGMENT .....till day of judgment there will be Believers and disbelievers....there will never be one day the world would lack disbelievers ...they will be there and the believers will be there too....

till what? The day of judgment
And ?

to Me shall be your return and I will judge between you concerning that wherein you differ." (3:56)

the judgment to such matters of faith people differ and will continue differ till the day of judgment ,according to the verse ,is by God and only he who will do that....
there won't be a savior who comes and all in a sudden unite all diversity..... as that is against
the law which God decided the world to be and will ever be till day of judgment..

[011:118] Had your Lord willed, all the people would have been one congregation of believers. But they will always dispute the truth.

If God willed all to be in one Religion he would have done it from the beginning,but to claim that all of a sudden he will change his rule and unite all for mere few years before day of judgment is far fetched idea and contradict his Quranic rule....
the rule of humanity being exposed to test from the very beginning to the end of times.....


Day of judgment:

there will be the protection from hell fire ,Jesus been worshipped as god and the destiny of such false gods (if they accepted worship) is Hell.....again for being innocent ,Hell will never touch him...

5:116 And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah.?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.


To claim that the verse concentrate on the mental mood of Jesus such days is a shallow idea......
we as readers would never bother with what was going on the mentality of the baby jesus or the jesus exposed to be killed etc....
we care only for the safety of the man ...
If he was really crucified ,there we may argue the expression peace as meaning internal satisfaction.....
but that understanding is biblical not Quranic


To sum up

The internal sense of peace even in unpeaceful times is very much a part of its meaning..

the day Jesus was born, passed a peaceful or unpeaceful time?

the day Jesus died ,passed peaceful or unpeaceful time?

it passed peaceful time ,thanx to the peace(protection) Allah sent on Jesus....

The Quran affirms it was peaceful time and you lean again to the biblical concept unpeaceful times !!....

Jesus seems to have had internal peace (like the one me and you have now at home) all the days of his life,but there were occasions he was about to lose such mental case ,but with the divine peace that was sent upon him, he passed them and God's promise of protection (And peace be upon me
the day I was born, die )been fulfilled .....

[Grace Seeker]

Imam, I hope you can receive this as the compliment I truly mean it to be. I think your presentation makes a better sermon than it does an exegesis of the text. But that's OK. I can see why you would choose it, and if I was a worshipper at a mosque, I believe your presentation would really speak to me. In fact, if I was an iman I would probably use it.

[Imam]

I think your presentation makes a better sermon than it does an exegesis of the text. .

And I think what you did was not a proper exegesis of the text....

your exegesis was faulty for:

can be understood just based on language alone as referring to both an internal peace and external. .

you want to isolate the verse as if it is the only verse mentioned in the Quran regarding Jesus ,also your insist that what Jesus had could be

internal sense of peace in unpeaceful times.

while the Quran affirms such times as passed peaceful times thanx to the peace was sent upon Jesus....

I hope you can receive this as the compliment I truly mean it to be. I think your presentation makes a better sermon than it does an exegesis of the text..

That is not a compliment ,as I'm a prover not a preacher......

[Grace Seeker]

So be it. Your analysis remains short of proviing anything to me.

[Imam]

my analysis would stand firm till you provide FROM THE QURAN that would support your original argument:

Could they not still be experiencing God's peace even as others where treating them in unpeaceful ways?.

What others and What are the supposed unpeaceful ways he been treated with ,whether in birth or death ?chapter and verse,plz?

I think it is a fair request....

as anyone who would assume ,has to strengthen such assumption with proof text...

I strengthened mine ,now it is your turn ....


If you won't provide answer from the Quran ,and I provided before what supports the security meaning.... then not only you should consider the discussion between us in that point is over,but also think again of the title prover and which of us should have it....

[Grace Seeker]

I once had a lady who was a Jehovah's Witness come to my door. After repeating herself for over an hour with logic that consisted of nothing more than making her own statements of faith as to what something meant she asserted, just as you have, that she had therefore proved her point. Well, I am sure that she did -- to herself, but not to me.

So fine, you think that because it says that peace was upon him in his death that Jesus therefore died a non-violent death. That is what YOU think. And that is all that you have thus far proved to me, that you in fact think that. You've not yet given me any reason that I should think the same that I find even remotely convincing. I've questioned your proofs, which you for some reason seem to infer as if they are attempts by me to prove something as well. They aren't. They are just questions regarding your own proofs, points where what you are suggesting doesn't quite add up for me. But if you want to call yourself the prover of something, then knock yourself out. I'm not after any such title.

['Abd-al Latif]

The Muslims’ beliefs concerning the Messiah Jesus The Son of Maryam

Q.What are the Muslims’ beliefs concerning the Messiah ‘Eesa ibn Maryam (Jesus Son of Mary)?.

A.Praise be to Allaah.

Our beliefs concerning the Messiah ‘Eesa ibn Maryam (Jesus the son of Mary – peace be upon him) are those indicated by the Book of Allah and the Sunnah of our Messenger Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

We believe that ‘Eesa (peace be upon him) was one of the slaves of Allaah, and one of His noble Messengers. Allaah sent him to the Children of Israel to call them to believe in Allaah alone and worship Him alone.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And (remember) when ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), said: ‘O Children of Israel! I am the Messenger of Allaah unto you, confirming the Tawraat [(Torah) which came] before me, and giving glad tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad.’ But when he (Ahmad, i.e. Muhammad) came to them with clear proofs, they said: ‘This is plain magic’” [al-Saff 61:6]

“But the Messiah [‘Eesa (Jesus)] said: ‘O Children of Israel! Worship Allaah, my Lord and your Lord.’ Verily, whosoever sets up partners (in worship) with Allaah, then Allaah has forbidden Paradise to him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the Zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers) there are no helpers” [al-Maa’idah 5:72]

‘Eesa was not a god or the son of God as the Christians claim.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Surely, they have disbelieved who say: ‘Allaah is the Messiah [‘Eesa (Jesus)], son of Maryam (Mary).’” [al-Maa’idah 5:72]

“And the Jews say: ‘Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allaah, and the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allaah. That is their saying with their mouths, resembling the saying of those who disbelieved aforetime. Allaah’s Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth!” [al-Tawbah 9:30]

The first words that ‘Eesa spoke when Allaah caused him to speak when he was in the cradle were (interpretation of the meaning):

“He [‘Eesa (Jesus)] said: ‘Verily, I am a slave of Allaah, He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet’” [Maryam 19:30]

We believe that Allaah supported him with miracles that proved he was speaking the truth.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“(Remember) when Allaah will say (on the Day of Resurrection). ‘O ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Remember My Favour to you and to your mother when I supported you with Rooh‑ul‑Qudus [Jibreel (Gabriel)] so that you spoke to the people in the cradle and in maturity; and when I taught you writing, Al‑Hikmah (the power of understanding), the Tawraat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel); and when you made out of the clay, a figure like that of a bird, by My Permission, and you breathed into it, and it became a bird by My Permission, and you healed those born blind, and the lepers by My Permission, and when you brought forth the dead by My Permission; and when I restrained the Children of Israel from you (when they resolved to kill you) as you came unto them with clear proofs, and the disbelievers among them said: This is nothing but evident magic’” [al-Maa'idah 5:110]

We believe that ‘Eesa was born from the Virgin Maryam with no father, and that is not impossible for Allaah Who, when He wills a thing, says “Be!” and it is.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, the likeness of ‘Eesa (Jesus) before Allaah is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: ‘Be!’ — and he was” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:59]

“(Remember) when the angels said: ‘O Maryam (Mary)! Verily, Allaah gives you the glad tidings of a Word [‘Be!’ — and he was! i.e. ‘Eesa (Jesus) the son of Maryam (Mary)] from Him, his name will be the Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), held in honour in this world and in the Hereafter, and will be one of those who are near to Allaah.”

He will speak to the people, in the cradle and in manhood, and he will be one of the righteous.’

She said: ‘O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me.’ He said: ‘So (it will be) for Allaah creates what He wills. When He has decreed something, He says to it only: “Be!” and it is’” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:45-47]

We believe that he permitted to the Jews some of the things that had been forbidden to them.

Allaah tells us that ‘Eesa said to the Children of Israel (interpretation of the meaning):

“And I have come confirming that which was before me of the Tawraat (Torah), and to make lawful to you part of what was forbidden to you, and I have come to you with a proof from your Lord. So fear Allaah and obey me” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:50]

We believe that he did not die and his enemies the Jews did not kill him, rather Allaah saved him from them and raised him up to heaven alive.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And because of their (Jews) disbelief and uttering against Maryam (Mary) a grave false charge (that she has committed illegal sexual intercourse);

And because of their saying (in boast), ‘We killed Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allaah,’ — but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but it appeared so to them the resemblance of ‘Eesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man)], and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not [i.e. ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)]:

But Allaah raised him [‘Eesa (Jesus)] up (with his body and soul) unto Himself (and he is in the heavens). And Allaah is Ever All‑Powerful, All‑Wise” [al-Nisa’ 4:156-158]

We believe that he told his followers of the coming of our Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And (remember) when ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), said: ‘O Children of Israel! I am the Messenger of Allaah unto you, confirming the Tawraat [(Torah) which came] before me, and giving glad tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad.’ But when he (Ahmad, i.e. Muhammad) came to them with clear proofs, they said: ‘This is plain magic’” [al-Saff 61:6]

We believe that he will come back down at the end of time, and will disprove the claim of his enemies the Jews that they killed him, and will disprove the claim of the Christians that he is God or the son of God, and he will not accept anything from them but Islam.

Al-Bukhaari (2222) and Muslim (155) narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “By the One in Whose hand is my soul, soon the son of Maryam will descend among you [according to another report: the Hour will not begin until the son of Maryam descends among you] as a just judge. He will break the cross, kill the pigs and abolish the jizyah, and money will become abundant until no one will accept it.”

“Soon” means it will inevitably happen quickly.

“will descend among you” means among this ummah (nation).

“A just judge” means that he will come down and rule according to this sharee’ah, and that this sharee’ah will remain and not be abrogated, rather ‘Eesa will be one of the rulers of this ummah.

“He will break the cross and kill the pigs” means he will declare as false the religion of the Christians by breaking the cross in a real sense and proving false the Christians’ claims and veneration of the cross.

“and he will abolish the jizyah”:

Imam al-Nawawi said:

The correct view concerning this is that he will not accept it, and he will not accept anything from the kaafirs but Islam. If any of them offer the jizyah that will not make him stop fighting them. Rather he will not accept anything but Islam or death. This is the view of Imam Abu Sulaymaan al-Khattaabi and other scholars (may Allaah have mercy on them).

End quote.

“Money will become abundant” – the reason for this abundance will be the descent of blessings and the spread of goodness because of justice and the absence of oppression or wrongdoing. At that time the earth will bring forth its treasures, and desire to keep money will decrease because they will know that that Hour is at hand.

Then he will die and the Muslims will offer the funeral prayer for him and bury him.

Ahmad (9349) narrated from Abu Hurayrah that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I am the closest of people to ‘Eesa ibn Maryam because there was no Prophet between him and me…” Then he mentioned his descent at the end of time. Then he said: “And he will remain for as long as Allaah wills he should remain, then he will die and the Muslims will offer the funeral prayer for him and bury him.” Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in al-Silsilah al-Saheehah (2182).

We believe that he will disavow himself on the Day of Resurrection of the claims that he was a god.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And (remember) when Allaah will say (on the Day of Resurrection): 'O ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Did you say unto men: Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allaah?’ He will say: ‘Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner‑self though I do not know what is in Yours; truly, You, only You, are the All‑Knower of all that is hidden (and unseen).

Never did I say to them aught except what You (Allaah) did command me to say: Worship Allaah, my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were the Watcher over them; and You are a Witness to all things’” [al-Maa'idah 5:116-117]

“ ‘Never did I say to them aught except what You (Allaah) did command me to say: Worship Allaah, my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were the Watcher over them; and You are a Witness to all things’” [al-Maa'idah 5:116-117]

This is what the Muslims believe about the Messiah ‘Eesa ibn Maryam (peace be upon him).

Al-Bukhaari (3435) and Muslim (28) narrated from ‘Ubaadah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever bears witness that there is no god but Allaah alone, with no partner or associate, and that Muhammad is His slave and Messenger, and that Jesus is His slave and Messenger, a word which Allaah bestowed upon Maryam and a spirit created by Him, and that Paradise is real, and Hell is real, Allaah will admit him through whichever of the eight gates of Paradise he wishes.”

We ask Allaah to make us steadfast in faith and to cause us to die as believers.

May Allaah send blessings and peace upon our Prophet Muhammad.

Islam Q&A

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/43148

['Abd-al Latif]

Question about the messiah in Islam

Q.Who is the messiah of islam?

A.Praise be to Allaah.

The Muslims do not pin their hopes on someone who will save or deliver them, as is the case with the Jews, the Christians and the Raafidis (Shi’ah). Islam is complete and its rulings are complete. Perhaps what is meant in the question is the Mahdi. He will be one of the reformers of this ummah through whom Allaah will fill the earth with justice and fairness after it was filled with injustice and unfairness. Like other reformers, he will follow the Qur’aan and Sunnah and will rule according to them.

Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

The issue of the Mahdi is well known and the ahaadeeth which speak of him are numerous and are mutawaatir and support one another. More than one of the scholars has narrated that they are mutawaatir in meaning because of their many isnaads, many narrators and many versions. They indicate that this person whose coming is promised is something real and true. His name will be Muhammad ibn ‘Abd-Allaah al-‘Alawi al-Hasani, and he will be a descendent of al-Hasan ibn ‘Ali ibn ‘Abi Taalib (may Allaah be pleased with him). By the mercy of Allaah towards this ummah, this imam will appear at the end of time and will establish justice and truth and do away with injustice and oppression. Through him Allaah will spread justice among the ummah and guide the people.

I have studied many of the ahaadeeth about him and I saw, as al-Shawkaani and others said, and as Ibn al-Qayyim and others said, that some are saheeh (Authentic), some are hasan, and some are da’eef (weak) and manjabir (may be proven if there is corroborating evidence), containing fabricated reports. Those which have sound isnaads are sufficient for us, whether they are saheeh in and of themselves (saheeh li dhaatihi) or saheeh because of the existence of corroborating reports (saheeh li ghayri), or hasan in and of themselves (hasan li dhaatihi) or hasan because of the existence of corroborating reports (hasan li ghayrihi). By the same token, if the da’eef (weak reports) corroborate and support one another, then that constitutes evidence according to the scholars. So there are four categories of acceptable hadeeth according to the scholars: saheeh li dhaatihi (saheeh in and of itself), saheeh li ghayrihi (saheeh because of the existence of corroborating reports), hasan li dhaatihi (hasan in and of itself) and hasan li ghayrihi (hasan because of the existence of corroborating reports).

This has to do with reports other than those which are mutawaatir. All the mutawaatir reports are acceptable, whether they are mutawaatir in wording or in meaning. The ahaadeeth which speak of the Mahdi are mutawaatir in meaning. And the trustworthy scholars have stated that they are sound and mutawaatir.

We have seen the scholars state many things to be sound on the basis of less evidence than that. The truth of the matter is that the majority of scholars – if not all of them – are agreed that the Mahdi is something proven: he is real and will appear at the end of time.

With regard to those scholars who hold odd views concerning this matter, no attention is to be paid to what they say on this matter.

Al-Radd ‘ala man kadhaba bi’l-Ahaadeeth al-Saheehah al-Waaridah fi’l-Mahdi by Shaykh ‘Abd al-Muhsin al-‘Abbaad, p. 157.

Shaykh Ibn Baaz was commenting on a lecture given by Shaykh al-‘Abbaad.

There follows some information about the Mahdi:

His name will be Muhammad ibn ‘Abd-Allaah.

His description: He will have a high forehead and a hooked nose.

Al-Qaari: Sharh Mishkaat al-Masaabeeh, 10/175.

When he will appear: At the end of time, shortly before the Hour begins. After him the Messiah ‘Eesa ibn Maryam (Jesus the son of Mary) will descend.

There follow some of the ahaadeeth that have been narrated concerning him:

It was narrated that Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The Mahdi is from me, with a high forehead and a hooked nose. He will fill the earth with fairness and justice as it was filled with unfairness and injustice, and he will reign for seven years.” Narrated by Abu Dawood, 4275; classed as hasan by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.

It was narrated that ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Mas’ood said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “This world will not pass away until the earth is ruled by a man from among my family who whose name will be the same as mine.” Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 2235. Shaykh al-Albaani said: (it is) hasan saheeh.

It was narrated that Jaabir (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: I heard the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: “A group from among my ummah will continue to fight for the truth and prevail until the Day of Resurrection. Then ‘Eesa ibn Maryam (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) will come down and their leader will say, ‘Come and lead us in prayer,’ but he will say, ‘No, you are leaders for one another, as an honour from Allaah to this ummah.’” Narrated by Muslim, 156.

The leader mentioned in this hadeeth is the Mahdi.

For more reports about the Mahdi, please see question no. 1252.

Note:

Some people misunderstand the ahaadeeth about the Mahdi and the descent of ‘Eesa ibn Maryam, so they do not work for Islam or to call people to Allaah because they are waiting for the Messiah to come down or for the Mahdi to appear. This is undoubtedly a mistake. The Muslims have to strive to make the word of Allaah supreme, to make His religion prevail and to convey the message of truth to all people. We can imagine how much the Muslims would have declined and how weak they would have become if the earlier Muslims had understood this matter in this mistaken manner and acted accordingly. Would they have been able to defeat the Tatars and Crusaders, and conquer other lands? For more information please see question no. (21221)

And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/13818

[Imam]

peace

May I give my odd comment on Almahdi?! ...showing why the claim (Those which have sound isnaads are sufficient for us)

Are neither a sound Isnad nor sufficient to accept the concept?

or this time the button delete post is ready?

oh I forgot the advice

With regard to those scholars who hold odd views concerning this matter, no attention is to be paid to what they say on this matter.

good way to refute the odd views,isn't it?

in return , with regard to those who delete others sound arguments , no attention is to be paid to them.

peace

['Abd-al Latif]

peace

May I give my odd comment on Almahdi?! ...showing why the claim (Those which have sound isnaads are sufficient for us)

Are neither a sound Isnad nor sufficient to accept the concept?

or this time the button delete post is ready?

oh I forgot the advice

good way to refute the odd views,isn't it?

in return , with regard to those who delete others sound arguments , no attention is to be paid to them.

peace

You're proof is not sound at all and is contradictory to the Book of Allah and His Messenger :saws:. In fact rejecting the Anti-Crist amongst other things is a clear rejection of certain aspects of the Islamic creed.

1) You shouldn't be writing books to begin with because you don't have sufficent knowledge to do so and you are misleading people according to your limited understanding of certain aspects which are in fact incorrect. To come 1400 years after the Prophet :saws: and then claim that the second coming of jesus is a false notion and belief in dajjal (anti-crist) is doubtful and whether jesus was a Prophet or not etc is complete and total nonsense. If you want references in Arabic then refer to Al Bidiyah Wal Nihaya of Ibn Khateer.

2) Bukhari and Muslim are 110% authentic and this is clear as day light when you study the sciences of hadeeth.

This may be beneficial for you:

al-Bukhaari did not narrate anything directly from the Prophet :saws:, rather he narrated from trustworthy shaykhs, who attained the highest degree of memorization, precision and trustworthiness, who in turn had narrated from equally reliable shaykhs, all the way back to the Sahaabah who narrated from the Messenger of Allaah :saws:. The smallest number of narrators between al-Bukhaari and the Prophet :saws: is three. So we rely upon Saheeh al-Bukhaari because he chose the narrators from whom he transmitted hadeeth with the utmost care, and they are the most trustworthy. Moreover, he would not write down any hadeeth in his Saheeh until he had done ghusl, then prayed two rak’ahs and prayed istikhaarah, asking Allaah to guide him with regard to writing down this hadeeth; then he would write it down. It took him sixteen years to write this book, which the ummah accepted and unanimously agreed that what is narrated in it is saheeh; and Allaah has protected this ummah from agreeing upon misguidance.

Imam al-Nawawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in his introduction to Sharh Muslim (1/14): “The scholars (may Allaah have mercy on them) are agreed that the most sound of books after the Qur’aan are the two Saheehs of al-Bukhaari and Muslim, which were accepted by the ummah. The book of al-Bukhaari is the more sound and the more beneficial of the two.”

So my sincere advice is to study under teachers who are trustworthy and do not limit your self to just books and the internet.

Case closed.

['Abd-al Latif]

Without having to go further into the topic of the validity of hadeeth in Bukhari and Muslim - even though their soundness is a conses amongst Muslim Scholars - I'll point you to a few threads and websites, lectures etc that deal with this subject or are relevent to the topic.

http://www.islamicboard.com/hadeeth/...eeh-sound.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/hadeeth/...ml#post1192049
http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/21523
http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/20153
http://www.islamicboard.com/hadeeth/...hahullaah.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/hadeeth/...-lectures.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/hadeeth/...sir-qadhi.html

Lectures by Abu Usamah at-Thahabi

Introduction to Imam Bukhari - Part 01 Download
Introduction to Imam Bukhari - Part 02 Download
Introduction to Imam Bukhari - Part 03 Download
Introduction to Imam Bukhari - Part 04 Download
Introduction to Imam Bukhari - Part 05 Download
Introduction to Imam Bukhari - Part 06 Download

This book below has a series of lectures to it as well

[Uthman]

JazakAllah Khayr akhee 'Abd al-Latif. I have been searching for some good literature on Usool al-Hadeeth in the English language for some time. This book by Sheikh Bilal Philips seem to be an ideal starting place.

['Abd-al Latif]

JazakAllah Khayr akhee 'Abd al-Latif. I have been searching for some good literature on Usool al-Hadeeth in the English language for some time. This book by Sheikh Bilal Philips seem to be an ideal starting place.

There are other stuff as well but I'll paste the pictures of the book covers in another thread.

[Uthman]

There are other stuff as well but I'll paste the pictures of the book covers in another thread.

JazakAllah Khayr. That would be welcome.

[IAmZamzam]

From my FAQ from Christians:

Question: Why do you call Jesus “Messiah” if you don’t believe in his divinity?

Answer: The original meaning of the term was something like “chosen one”. The Jews thought (and still think) that the Messiah will be the man to come and lead them. At the time when he came, most Jews were expecting him to be a military leader who would free them from Roman control. As we both know, he was not concerned with this. Over the centuries Christians have changed the meaning of the word “Messiah”, redefining it so that it means “savior”. We use the term properly, in its original sense, the sense in which the Jews use it, and on that level we agree with you that the Messiah (or in Greek, the Christ) has already come and he was the blessed Jesus.

[Follower]

Jewish tradition - the Messiah will bring political and spiritual redemption of the Jewish people:

be a great judge make righteous decisions
be well-versed in Jewish law
a charismatic leader
inspire others to follow his example
be a descendant of King David
gain sovereignty over Israel
gather the Jews from the four corners of the earth
restore them to full observance of Torah law
bring peace to the whole world

Jews expect quite a bit from the messiah then just being annointed, even though that is the original meaning of the word.

[Grace Seeker]

Jews expect quite a bit from the messiah then just being annointed, even though that is the original meaning of the word.

Yep. I think it is safe to say that while Islam, Judaism, and Christianity all have the concept of the Messiah, that they are completely different concepts from one another. That shouldn't be surprisiing, there are many other terms that all three faiths use, but mean different things by them. If we shared the same understandings of all our terms we would probably be able to develop a synthesis of our beliefs, but I seriously doubt that is ever going to happen.