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sister_islam
06-26-2009, 08:42 PM
:sl:

Today i had a Critical Thinking lesson and was asked this question that i want to share with you.


What would you do if....

There was a normal guy or lady, that has the cure for cancer in his/her blood but if you take the blood out, the person will die straight way. (There is no age at this moment...its up to you how old the person old)

1)Would you kill this person for the cure for others

or
2)Would let him live?

what do you thnk?

think about it nd let me no!!

tke care people...

:w:
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catalzzy
06-26-2009, 08:48 PM
Assalam Alykium,

Well, islamically, we would leave it till it goes old or whatever. Because when he has something up during his life time like death. We can't control death. Only Allah does.

And my opinion, i d probably leave it cos its too risky, Age dosent matter to me.
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GuestFellow
06-26-2009, 08:52 PM
Wow that is a tough one.

I guess I would let him live. I personally cannot kill anyone. I rather let him live, then to spend all my life feeling guilty that I killed someone.
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sister_islam
06-26-2009, 08:56 PM
True but wat abut all those thousands of people suffering from cancer?

dont they need a chance 2 be cured?
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catalzzy
06-26-2009, 08:59 PM
True but wat abut all those thousands of people suffering from cancer?

dont they need a chance 2 be cured?
I dunno. maybe they were destined to?
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AabiruSabeel
06-26-2009, 09:01 PM
Can't we keep supplying more blood to the person whose blood we are taking?

Btw, I don't think this can happen in reality. Allah SubHanahu waTa'ala will not keep the cure for a certain disease in the blood of some other human. There would surely be alternates for that.
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sister_islam
06-26-2009, 09:01 PM
But it was our destiny that we acknowledge this knowledge nd supposed to do something?
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sister_islam
06-26-2009, 09:05 PM
Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel
Can't we keep supplying more blood to the person whose blood we are taking?

Btw, I don't think this can happen in reality. Allah SubHanahu waTa'ala will not keep the cure for a certain disease in the blood of some other human. There would surely be alternates for that.
This is a example of a moral/ethnical dilemma that we had to argue 2day. But if we take the blood out of the person, he/she will die quickly
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Tony
06-26-2009, 09:09 PM
u cannot kill him, but if he came to Islam he could choose to give his blood straight after death
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catalzzy
06-26-2009, 09:09 PM
But it was our destiny that we acknowledge this knowledge nd supposed to do something?
Yeah, however to do something about it is destined onto the "destiny" time line.

say, if a person you stated above the first post about cancer, he is destined to have cancer, to do something can be 2 destiny like, leave it till he die or take out the blood to cure him.

I dunno. just my view on it. lol.
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جوري
06-26-2009, 09:21 PM
I think the q is faulty. we can and have and continue to take out people's blood and re-infuse them without inducing death.
search the net for 'apheresis'--

The Question is, what is it in his blood that is a 'cure for cancer' cancers work in different ways, so is this a cure-all?
if there is a specific protein in his body then it can be selected out singularly without causing death using protein tomography and what nots..

If this were a topic of discussion in class, I'd probably tell the prof. how incredibly wasteful such a topic is, simply based on our technologies and medical ethics there is no room for such vacuous thoughts as they have no real life basis..

:w:
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S_87
06-26-2009, 09:22 PM
2) let him live

you havent taken out the blood yet so you obviously dont know for 100% sure that his blood will cure ...and to kill the person would be murder.
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sister_islam
06-26-2009, 09:28 PM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
I think the q is faulty. we can and have and continue to take out people's blood and re-infuse them without inducing death.
search the net for 'apheresis'--

The Question is, what is it in his blood that is a 'cure for cancer' cancers work in different ways, so is this a cure-all?

:w:
its the full cure for the cancer. it wil kill every cell that a person has but if you dont tke it out, thousands of people will die of cancer. This is one in a lifetime opportunity to destroy cancer.
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catalzzy
06-26-2009, 09:32 PM
its the full cure for the cancer. it wil kill every cell that a person has but if you dont tke it out, thousands of people will die of cancer. This is one in a lifetime opportunity to destroy cancer.
How is it supposed to mean if this is one in a life time opportunity if a doctor takes the blood out and have no time to insert the new cure and the patient dies already before it is inserted.
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Eric H
06-26-2009, 09:36 PM
Greetings and peace be with you sister_islam; You certainly pose an interesting dilemma.

Supposing you were that person and the doctor said your blood could cure cancer, but you would die, what would you do? Would you liked to be asked and given the chance to choose your own destiny?

There are some people who would sacrifice themselves for others, would that be suicide or martyrdom.

I am not totally sure how this would be doing God’s will. We all have to die at some point, and I am not entirely sure if an extra twenty or thirty years life for a cancer sufferer would help their journey into heaven.

After all; life on this earth is all about achieving salvation.

In the spirit of searching for answers

Eric
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جوري
06-26-2009, 09:39 PM
Originally Posted by sister_islam
its the full cure for the cancer. it wil kill every cell that a person has but if you dont tke it out, thousands of people will die of cancer. This is one in a lifetime opportunity to destroy cancer.

The question is by way of fantasy, it is illogical.. it defies what we know about cancer, doesn't follow a proper scientific stance, since I have said that we can in fact take people's blood out, apheresis, plasma exchange, dialysis, we use extracorporeal blood purification technique designed for the removal of large molecular weight substances from the plasma not to mention that it defies medical ethics...

your teacher needs to break down the components of this question .. what is it about this fellow's blood that is so special? we have millions of things in our blood, fact is by virtue of blood typing alone, you can't have a cure all given all the different blood types we are. and secondly blood is comprised of many components, thus he needs to identify that 'magical component' in this fellow's blood and as stated above we have millions of ways of extracting it without inducing the death of a person.

I would simply refuse an answer based on these alone, but I'd think it a grievous waste of time to dwell on very ambiguous ethical questions that have no basis in real life, based on what we know of science and the human body!

:w:
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sister_islam
06-26-2009, 09:39 PM
Originally Posted by Catalzzy

How is it supposed to mean if this is one in a life time opportunity if a doctor takes the blood out and have no time to insert the new cure and the patient dies already before it is inserted.
No what im saying this person who has the cure, that has the cells, would die...

thats the Scenario...sorry havnt got much infor
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glo
06-26-2009, 09:41 PM
These are the kind of ethical dilemmas medicine has to deal with every day.

If the moral decision is supposed to be for 'the greater good', then paying one life for the sake of many doesn't seem so much of a sacrifice, does it?
However, that looks very different from the perspective of the person who holds the cure, and his family and loved ones ...

Those a tough decisions to make - and perhaps there is no right or wrong ...
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catalzzy
06-26-2009, 09:43 PM
of course.

oops.

i v been over thinking. haha

Yeah, i know its a scenario. :)
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Tony
06-26-2009, 09:44 PM
Allah says if you save the life of one man it is as though you savd mankind, killing under any circumsances is wrong, if God is gonna give cure for cancer it would be forthright and not subject to classroom ethics
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sister_islam
06-26-2009, 09:45 PM
Originally Posted by glo
These are the kind of ethical dilemmas medicine has to deal with every day.

If the moral decision is supposed to be for 'the greater good', then paying one life for the sake of many doesn't seem so much of a sacrifice, does it?
However, that looks very different from the perspective of the person who holds the cure, and his family and loved ones ...

Those a tough decisions to make - and perhaps there is no right or wrong ...
that's exactly what my teacher was trying to cover. its become a moral/ethnical dilemma that we have to chose from right to wrong or maybe the other way round too- from a bad to a good. Its hard to mke a decision.

i mean when my friends was arguing with me because they didnt agree of kill this one person to save a large number because it your actions that accounts for...maybe for religious or because its personal...

do u understand wat i'm trying to say here?
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sister_islam
06-26-2009, 09:46 PM
Originally Posted by Catalzzy
of course.

oops.

i v been over thinking. haha

Yeah, i know its a scenario. :)
No no its okay...maybe because u have a different view like me ....i have a personal argument...maybe u have a religious argument...
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جوري
06-26-2009, 09:48 PM
I am so surprised that many answer a question based on a fantasy..
in fact doctors don't have to answer such a 'difficult dilemma' as some suggest, the first law of medical ethics as well what your oath as you receive your diploma is 'Primum non nocere'

first, do no harm-- that is if I am to forgo the impossibility of the premise proposed here!

:w:
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glo
06-26-2009, 09:50 PM
Originally Posted by sister_islam
that's exactly what my teacher was trying to cover. its become a moral/ethical dilemma that we have to chose from right to wrong or maybe the other way round too- from a bad to a good. Its hard to make a decision.

i mean when my friends was arguing with me because they didnt agree of kill this one person to save a large number because it your actions that accounts for...maybe for religious or because its personal...

do u understand wat i'm trying to say here?
I know what you mean.
It is incredibly difficult to make such decisions.

Such decisions also change over time - as societal views and opinions change.

It also depends on our own emotional involvement.
In the circumstances you describe, you might find it reasonable to sacrifice the life of one stranger ... but would you still agree if it was your child/parent/sibling?

I find moral and ethical debates fascinating, because they challenge our own thinking and values to the core ...

I rarely come away with a clear answer. (I struggle with deciding on which shampoo to choose in the shop, let alone which moral decision is the best! :D)
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sister_islam
06-26-2009, 09:52 PM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
I am so surprised that many answer a question based on a fantasy..
in fact doctors don't have to answer such a 'difficult dilemma' as some suggest, the first law of medical ethics as well what your oath as you receive your diploma is 'Primum non nocere'

first, do no harm-- that is if I am to forgo the impossibility of the premise proposed here!

:w:
Yes i no dat this is based on fantasy but is it wrong to think like this? but u got to remember anything is possible
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Tony
06-26-2009, 09:53 PM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
I am so surprised that many answer a question based on a fantasy..
in fact doctors don't have to answer such a 'difficult dilemma' as some suggest, the first law of medical ethics as well what your oath as you receive your diploma is 'Primum non nocere'

first, do no harm-- that is if I am to forgo the impossibility of the premise proposed here!

:w:
start us off with a thread posing an ethical dilema then m'lady:Dplease
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glo
06-26-2009, 09:53 PM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
first, do no harm-- that is if I am to forgo the impossibility of the premise proposed here!

:w:
That's the flip argument to 'Do what offer the best outcome for most people'.

Do you think that from medical perspective killing one person (as described in the imagined scenario) for the sake of many would be completely unthinkable?
Would medicine look for alternative solutions instead?
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catalzzy
06-26-2009, 09:55 PM
That's the flip argument to 'Do what offer the best outcome for most people
is that a similarity to utilitarianism?
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Abdul Fattah
06-26-2009, 09:57 PM
Selam aleykum
Leave it. Killing is a major sin, so even if it is for the purpose of helping others, we still aren't allowed to. As for the cancer-patients, Allah subhana wa ta'ala will give them a way out if he want them to live longer.
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جوري
06-26-2009, 09:57 PM
Originally Posted by glo
That's the flip argument to 'Do what offer the best outcome for most people'.

Do you think that from medical perspective killing one person (as described in the imagined scenario) for the sake of many would be completely unthinkable?
Would medicine look for alternative solutions instead?
Yes, unthinkable!..
that is why Medical ethics is a course taught in all medical schools, so you don't have random thoughts as new situations arise, the law is already set. First do no harm and patient autonomy are about the golden rules here.. now that is if I am to accept the premise of the Q which I don't.. and because of these medical ethics, is everyone entitled to health care, rich, poor, black white, even criminals... you are not judge or executioner here -- you are to do what you have taken an oath to do, which is preserve life not end it.. why do you think medical euthanasia is a crime in all states except Oregon where it not an actual breech of such laws?
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sister_islam
06-26-2009, 09:58 PM
Originally Posted by glo



It also depends on our own emotional involvement.
In the circumstances you describe, you might find it reasonable to sacrifice the life of one stranger ... but would you still agree if it was your child/parent/sibling?

then our values, decisions change doesnt it? but what if (god forbid) one of you family members has cancer...you realli want a quick treatment and this is a chance. You dont want to find out tha the illness that u have has a cure and no ones doing anything about it


I find moral and ethical debates fascinating, because they challenge our own thinking and values to the core ...


so do i!! i luv this!! :)

I rarely come away with a clear answer. (I struggle with deciding on which shampoo to choose in the shop, let alone which moral decision is the best! :D)
join the club!!!:laugh:
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glo
06-26-2009, 09:59 PM
Skye, but for a medic it must be excruciating to have a medical solution so close at hand, and yet be unable to utilise it ...
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glo
06-26-2009, 10:01 PM
I am really enjoying this thread.

I'm logging off now, but you guys keep it up! :)
I will follow you up in the morning.
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Tony
06-26-2009, 10:03 PM
^^ gdnight
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sister_islam
06-26-2009, 10:03 PM
Originally Posted by glo
I am really enjoying this thread.

I'm logging off now, but you guys keep it up! :)
I will follow you up in the morning.
thank u xxx
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جوري
06-26-2009, 10:04 PM
Originally Posted by sister_islam
Yes i no dat this is based on fantasy but is it wrong to think like this? but u got to remember anything is possible

No, some things are impossible!
flying watermelons, pink unicorns, living to be 2000 yrs of age etc.
they defy the laws of our known universe, thus, some things I wouldn't at all consider since they have no basis in reality.. if I base my opinion on fantasy, then how about I fantasize about a world with no cancer all together? why rob a man or a woman of 6 liters of blood when I can get away with 3 liters and put in central venous access and infuse him from the other side if in fact I am looking for just a particular component that is a 'cure all'. knowing what I know, it is impossible to think that this would be possible.
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czgibson
06-26-2009, 10:06 PM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
The question is by way of fantasy, it is illogical..
It's a thought experiment. You're not supposed to take it literally.

Questions like this help to explore the causes and consequences of hypotheses or beliefs that we have. Glo sums it up very well:

If the moral decision is supposed to be for 'the greater good', then paying one life for the sake of many doesn't seem so much of a sacrifice, does it?
However, that looks very different from the perspective of the person who holds the cure, and his family and loved ones ...

Those a tough decisions to make - and perhaps there is no right or wrong ...
Is the life of an individual as valuable as the lives of many?

The Jewish Mishnah seems to think so:

For this reason, man [i.e. the first human being] was created alone to teach that whoever destroys a single life is as though he had destroyed an entire universe, and whoever saves a single life is as if he had saved an entire universe. (Sanhedrin 4: 5)
As does the Qur'an:

YUSUFALI: On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (Qur'an 5:32)
The possibility of prolonging the lives of many is certainly tempting. But should we be artificially prolonging life? Or should we just let nature take its course?

These are questions that we all need to think about, and no-one can say definitively that they have the right answers to them.

Peace
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جوري
06-26-2009, 10:07 PM
Originally Posted by glo
Skye, but for a medic it must be excruciating to have a medical solution so close at hand, and yet be unable to utilise it ...
No, it isn't. following medical ethics is as important as practicing medicine. You can't let go of one for the sake of the others.. those who do are outcasts and shunned by the rest of the medical community and in all likely-hood lose their license and end up in jail.. again your job is to preserve life not take it away...

for more on the matter, you may purchase:


Medical Ethics: Accounts of the Cases that Shaped and Define Medical Ethics by Gregory Pence (Paperback - Jul 11, 2007)

Eligible for FREE Super Saver Shipping.

if anything outside of that it will not be decided by a doctor but by a court of law!

all the best
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جوري
06-26-2009, 10:13 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,


It's a thought experiment. You're not supposed to take it literally.
Then I have already answered that the first law in practicing medicine is: ''Primum non nocere"-- supposedly goes back to Hippocrates though I have my doubts.. nonetheless, it makes the situation crystal, whether literal or not!

We are not here to play God, decide who lives and who dies for a perceived notion of greater good -- we are here to preserve life, and if we can't by our scientific means available, then to provide comfort and supportive care..
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sister_islam
06-26-2009, 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,


Or should we just let nature take its course?

Peace
If we do let nature takes its course, its like not to anything...i mean if we did let nature takes its course, then why are all the docs, nurses and all other health professionsa bothering or is it our prinicples, values that get in the way of things? is it good that we're helping others or shall we stick to the nature?
?
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sister_islam
06-26-2009, 10:18 PM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye

We are not here to play God, decide who lives and who dies for a perceived notion of greater good -- we are here to preserve life, and if we can't by our scientific means available, then to provide comfort and supportive care..
Then we are playing god...i mean the doctors. If it was my destiny to have a an hole in the heart, then i should ive left it...let nature takes its course... or when they switch the life machine...they playing god arent they?
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جوري
06-26-2009, 10:22 PM
Originally Posted by sister_islam
Then we are playing god...i mean the doctors. If it was my destiny to have a an hole in the heart, then i should ive left it...let nature takes its course... or when they switch the life machine...they playing god arent they?

Playing God denotes taking away an innocent life on purpose and for no just cause 'see the Quran' on such a matter of jurisprudence!

This question simply asks people to shut away their mentation but not for the purpose of though provocation but for a nonsensical notion that doesn't in fact exist.. it is an exercise in futility!
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sister_islam
06-26-2009, 10:27 PM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye

Playing God denotes taking away an innocent life on purpose.
Hmm...Yeah i agree with that. i didnt see it that way.

but wat im trying to say is that we have a chance to save a lot of people but kill one person for the good on a numours people? itsnt that good...

okay lets chance it...what if the person 85 and in her/his final years of their lives? would u still get the cure and then kill or leave him and let him die in his on accord?
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جوري
06-26-2009, 10:36 PM
Originally Posted by sister_islam
Hmm...Yeah i agree with that. i didnt see it that way.

but wat im trying to say is that we have a chance to save a lot of people but kill one person for the good on a numours people? itsnt that good...

okay lets chance it...what if the person 85 and in her/his final years of their lives? would u still get the cure and then kill or leave him and let him die in his on accord?

No, it isn't good, you have to also understand that in spite of the medicine I know, I whole heartedly believe that folks die when they are meant to die -- I had an argument with a prof. of mine once, on how he feels the strides we have made in (ALL) therapy, rendered 95% effective in children who would have otherwise died, and the science is great, but Allah swt allowed us that knowledge simply because these individuals weren't meant to die at 8 or 11 but at 87 or 43.. in other words these are the instruments of God, through knowledge he gave mankind.
if a kid has Leukemia and is meant to die at 13, even though some therapies are considered close to curative, then he'll die maybe not of leukemia but of a car accident, a drowning in the pool, a gunshot wound or whatever.

we don't delude ourselves into thinking we are the givers or takers of life. We understand our limitations, we help people with what we know and do the best we can and make strides, but science is a gift from Allah swt meant as an accompaniment and a tool of all that we are.. we are not mere physical beings!

you don't lose your ethical motive because you've stumbled upon one exit!

:w:
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Mysterious Uk
06-26-2009, 11:02 PM
Originally Posted by sister_islam
:sl:

Today i had a Critical Thinking lesson and was asked this question that i want to share with you.


What would you do if....

There was a normal guy or lady, that has the cure for cancer in his/her blood but if you take the blood out, the person will die straight way. (There is no age at this moment...its up to you how old the person old)

1)Would you kill this person for the cure for others

or
2)Would let him live?

what do you thnk?

think about it nd let me no!!

tke care people...

:w:
Very hard question! Both responses entail guilt, 1) guilt of killing one person or 2)guilt for practically being responsible for the deaths of millions because you did not do anything.

But even then i wouldn't kill the miracle cancer cure person because i'm just not capable of killing, even if it for good, i couldn't live with it. But then again you see cancer sufferers and the difficulties faced by families too.. not being able to stop that.. hmm.. would make you feel very very bad.
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glo
06-27-2009, 05:11 AM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
No, it isn't. following medical ethics is as important as practicing medicine. You can't let go of one for the sake of the others.. those who do are outcasts and shunned by the rest of the medical community and in all likely-hood lose their license and end up in jail.. again your job is to preserve life not take it away...

for more on the matter, you may purchase:

if anything outside of that it will not be decided by a doctor but by a court of law!

all the best
Thank you for the book suggestion.
I find medical ethics fascinating!

Can we go back to the OP's original hypothesis for a bit?

Is there any point at all at which medicine may consider taking the cure-bearer's life?

What if
  • s/he had explicitly agreed to it and signed all necessary legal consent forms?
  • s/he had a terminal illness and was dying soon anyway?
  • s/he was on a life support machine?


I know I am just adding to the original hypothesis, but my question is to what point can we (or can we not) push the boundaries of the Hippocratic oath?
(After all, there are doctors who take human lives for a number of reasons ... and usually they would argue in one way or another that they are preventing/reducing human suffering by doing so.)
Another question is, should we push those boundaries?
And are rules better when they are set in stone, or should they be flexible?


(So what if I've woken up feeling philosophical?! :D)
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جوري
06-27-2009, 05:41 AM
Are you asking me because you desire to know the status quo or do you desire to re-create medical ethics to suit the question?

if the first then the answer is already given you . I don't know how you operate things in England, I imagine it not to be different than the rest of the world since whether you are sitting for the Plab or the USMLE, you answer in the same fashion whether patho-physiology, diagnosis, management or ethics.. it follows the same pattern the world over!

Your concern is with the immediate and with your patient not some hypothetical (even if true) you don't sacrifice human life.. in fact there are situations when the court itself can force a person against their will to receive treatment and any doctor has the right to detain a patient from 24~48 until such a judicial review makes that decision lawfully legal!

I am not going to discuss a whole course on epidemiology and medical ethics because it is too expansive for our purposes -- and for such reasons medical ethics isn't left to lay men but to a learned committee.. think of it in the same fashion you would Islamic jurisprudence.. lay men fatwa, random opinions, hold very little value when there is a whole science to it and cases that have defined things for us as they are currently..

Things likeTuskegee Study, Roe v. Wade is, the Tarasoff decision and numerous others now dictate the way everything is run, from
confidentiality, release of information, when a patient is competent and when he has lost that capacity, law of double effect, risk management, medical errors, abortion, contraception, reach and participation consent, autonomy, emancipation, gifts and industry funding, terminal sedation etc etc..

there really isn't an area that can arise that hasn't been answered, and no killing someone for 'the greater good' I assure you wouldn't pose a medical dilemma, the answer is quite obvious, including patient wishes that are at odds with physician moral ethics, a doctor has a right to refuse performing procedures he/she doesn't agree too, although a doctor is held liable by law not to abandon a patient, he/she must find a suitable doctor to take on the care of such a patient but is under no legal obligation to perform something that is at odds with personal ethics!

all the best
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brotherubaid
06-27-2009, 08:18 AM
Islamicaly if we knew that a certain action will kill us , then that is prohibited. In no way can one kill himself or take his life in his own hands, even if it means saving other lifes, we ar enot allowed to take our lifes , this is exactly why those who commit suicide will not gbe able to eneter the paradise, and in this case if the patient chooses to give his blood for the cure he is basically destroying himself and killing himself , by doing which he will lose the etrenal life.

Verily, there is no disease that Allah has sent down, except that He also has
On the other hand those who have cancer , if they die , They die the natural death , they did not kill themselfes, It was decreed for them to die taht way,

So those who wil die coz of cancer can enter paradise , n this poor guy will never enter coz he killed himself, so WY RISK THE ETRRNAL LIFE FOR SAVING SOME LIFES THAT WILL END EVENTUALLY, WHY RISK IT ALL FOR SOMETHING SO MEANINGLESS? WHY lose the hereafter , for what? giving a couple of extra years to some one, one rather give those cancer patient good advise and fix their creed so they may die upon the truth and be salvaged, and the next life that will never end will be beautiful.

Plus we know that these people if Allah has decreed upon them such a disease and such pain, than God with such affliction remove ones sins and forgives their sins and raises their ranks , so the patients are in a win win situation, their sins are being fogiven just coz they are being put through pain and sufering and their ranks are being raised.

And if its liek an abdomen cancer or anyother abdomen disease the reward can be as big as reward of a martyr.The category of the martyrs of the Hereafter includes those who have died being succumbed to certain types of ailments or calamities, not of their own making such as those killed in accidents, drowned, as well as people who die of an abdominal disease. Some jurists have counted up to thirty kinds of such martyrs, while others state that they are up to forty kinds.

It was narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The martyrs are five: the one who dies of the plague; the one who dies of stomach trouble (al-mabtoon); the one who drowns; the one who is crushed by a falling wall; and the martyr who dies for the sake of Allaah.”

Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 2674; Muslim, 1914.

In an addition narrated by al-Tirmidhi (1846), Abu Dawood (311) and Ibn Maajah (2803) it says: “… and the one who dies of pleurisy, and the woman who dies together (with her baby).”

Al-Nawawi said: … According to another report: “The plague is martyrdom for every Muslim.”

The scholars of the Standing Committee were asked:

Some people say that a person who dies as the result of a car accident is a martyr and he will have a reward like that of the martyrs. Is this correct or not?

They replied:

We hope that he will be a martyr, because this is like the Muslim who dies under a falling wall. It was narrated in a saheeh report from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) that such a person is a martyr. Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 8/375.


So back to the topic , Dying is not an issue , everyone has to die , But killing one's self or putting the body in such a situation where death is feared for him or its certain like the sace discussed in the question is not allowed, Why co zit is not allowed for us to take our lifes, for any reason , So the one carrying the cure cannot kilhimself and those dying of cancer , apparently they seem as they are in pain and they are losing their life and they are going through a great affliction but in reality they might be those who are succesful , they might just get all their sins forgiven , they might have their ranks raised high, they are successful , and MOST OF ALL , WHO KNOWS HOW LONG THEY SHALL LIVE, Yes they should be cured , and the researchers should keep on looking for the cure , and try to find a cure for them , we are not saying let them just die, no do all you can to save them but not on teh cost of making some one kill himslf and go to hell just so some one can Live a few More years?!!!

As narrated in a hadith, Rasulullah s.a.w was once asked: “O Rasulullah sala lahu al;ihi wa sallam, do we seek for treatment? Rasulullah replied: “Indeed O servants of Allah, go and seek treatment, all of you. Verily, there is no disease that Allah has sent down, except that He also has sent down its treatment.”

Did u guys not hear about the couple who esacped death in that airfrance flight by being late for the flight had an accident after a few days n the lady died!! what sthe gurantee how long those pateiens will live, will death not come regardless, wil they not be made to stand before Allah.

he (Peace be upon him), says: ‘Whenever a hardship affects the Muslim, he will be forgiven for it even when he is picked by a spike.’ [Muslim]


And in another Hadith, also narrated by Muslim, Ummu as-Sa’ib cursed fever, to which the Prophet (Peace be upon him) told her: ‘Do not curse fever, for it takes away the sins like the blaze [fire] takes away the impurities of iron.’

When the Prophet (S) would enter upon a sick person, he would say:
‘Never mind, may it (the sickness) be a purification, if Allaah wills.’

So these sick people are in reality earning paradise just by being sick , why should one risk his paradise for the sake of them?! dont make no sense to me man.

Yes it is important to save live s, but what is more important than saving this" temporary life" is the next eternal life , in no way whatsoever one should risk that, n may Allah cure all those are sick and make their affairs easy

This is the islamic view

And Allah knows best

Assalam O Alikum
Reply

Najm
06-27-2009, 10:27 AM

AsSalamOAlaikum WaRehmatuAllah WaBarkatuhu


For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if be had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. Our messengers came unto them of old with clear proofs (of Allah's sovereignty) , but afterwards lo! many of them became prodigals in the earth. (5:32)

FiAmaaniAllah
Reply

A786
01-28-2018, 09:21 PM
Originally Posted by sister_islam
:sl:

Today i had a Critical Thinking lesson and was asked this question that i want to share with you.


What would you do if....

There was a normal guy or lady, that has the cure for cancer in his/her blood but if you take the blood out, the person will die straight way. (There is no age at this moment...its up to you how old the person old)

1)Would you kill this person for the cure for others

or
2)Would let him live?

what do you thnk?

think about it nd let me no!!

tke care people...

:w:

there are many perspectives to this.

A) Logically. Yes, it would more logical to kill this person with the cure to cancer as long as he/she saves a whole community of cancer.

B) Morally. Yes and no. Yes because you will be saving hundreds and thousands of other lives; and no because you are shedding the blood of this person who has the cure to cancer which is deemed morally incorrect

C) Scientifically. NO. stepping away from the fact that this question is meant to be hypothetical (imagination), science will deem it incorrect because NO human obviously has the cure to cancer in their blood. And suppose they did, it is impossible to cure EVERYONE terminally il due to the disease and also it depends on which TYPE/FORM of cancer this "pure blood" can cure. Hence, NO, doesn't make sense.

D) lastly, and importantly Religiously (could also be morally worldwide), Yes and no. No, obviously because you cannot KILL somebody or take ones own life (suicide) as it not permissible in Islam, HOWEVER, if this person willingly decides to end his/her life in order to SAVE others lives then to the contrary, it is allowed as a way of "Jihad" (struggle in the name of Allah) and ultimately this person would be a "shaheed" (a death due to the struggling in Allah's path). Similar to country soldiers and Military men/women who willingly end their lives (by joined and fighting war at the country borders) to save their countires. They are also "shaheed." BUT AT THE SAME TIME, if this person DOES NOT WILLINGLY WANT TO end HIS/HER life for others, than it is not permissible in Islam.

But then again, this is literally just my opinion, I am NO scholar so please do not quote me. I am a learning Muslim just like you.

Do you agree/disagree with this?
Reply

M.I.A.
01-29-2018, 12:34 AM
Originally Posted by sister_islam
:sl:

Today i had a Critical Thinking lesson and was asked this question that i want to share with you.


What would you do if....

There was a normal guy or lady, that has the cure for cancer in his/her blood but if you take the blood out, the person will die straight way. (There is no age at this moment...its up to you how old the person old)

1)Would you kill this person for the cure for others

or
2)Would let him live?

what do you thnk?

think about it nd let me no!!

tke care people...

:w:
The way the question is phrased is something that i dont really agree with..

But here is almost an answer..

http://www.iqrasense.com/stories-of-...-18-60-82.html

Random website.. please use caution.

I personally am extremely unsure of the outcomes of planning..

So i dont plan..

If that is possible. o_O

In my limited intellect, the cure is in anonimity and good neighbours..

But the cost of life is a worrying concept.. and one to be expanded upon. Given time.

You could spend time looking for a better mirror..

Or follow a way that subdued it altogether.. to be unknown, to be uncalled upon.

I dont think you could follow that thought but it leads to a complete paradox between the islamic concept and christian concept of existence.

So nevermind.

Its an extremely narrow point of view.. I know things dont work that way..

But.. If we could walk past without killing people it would be.. a good start.

The cost of persuing life i suppose.

Erroneously maybe.


...has anyone watched, The box? In itself its just a film..

But the concept is, that.. once you see the choices the place changes.

But very few have any real understanding of what goes on in the back..

Or the unseen as it is..

Although ironically you all must know on some level.

Don't get used to not existing.. because trying to then exist takes some doing.
Reply

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