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Re.TiReD
07-02-2009, 10:55 AM
AssalamuAlaykum

I'd like for both brothers and sisters to reply insha'Allah.

Its quite simple really. So imagine you're considering a bro or a sis for marriage and its time to approach the parents. They say no, they have no grounds for refusal except minor cultural ones. First question, would you take the first no as a final answer? Or would you try to talk them round and pursuade them more?

Would you fight it out until the end, until you got where you wanted or would you reach a stage where you think...At the end of the day we only have one set of parents, people come and go and if they are refusing, maybe there is a reason, some wisdom behind it that we cant see. Which sane person would risk upsetting their parents, who would choose parents over some girl/guy who hasnt done anything for them yet, who hasnt been there for them the same way your parents have. Who would leave their parents with no choice but to accept and then go into a marriage without the parents being fully happy and without their total sincere du'aas?

Am I right in thinking that there comes a point where you just have to give up, marriage is one thing where you cannot and must not choose your happiness over ur parents happiness and them being happy with you.

Am I right or wrong? What would you do?

I'm actually looking for support for the opposing argument, I want to hear I'm wrong. But I do think I'm right.

Kisi Begaane Ki Khaatir Tumne Apno Ko Bhoola Diya.....I think it goes like that. For the sake of a stranger you forsake and forgot your own. [Bolly days were 4 years ago btw, not now :-[ alhamdulillah]

JazakAllah khayr

WassalamuAlaykum
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The Ruler
07-02-2009, 11:24 AM
Originally Posted by Hafsah
First question, would you take the first no as a final answer?
No.

Or would you try to talk them round and pursuade them more?
If I'm bothered, yes.

Which sane person would risk upsetting their parents, who would choose parents over some girl/guy who hasnt done anything for them yet, who hasnt been there for them the same way your parents have. Who would leave their parents with no choice but to accept and then go into a marriage without the parents being fully happy and without their total sincere du'aas?
You could get your parents to agree without them getting upset. Why would you leave them with no choice but to accept your marriage? Instead talk and reason with them. Nicely.

Am I right or wrong? What would you do?
The thing is, when it comes to culture, culture orientated parents have a difficult time 'coming around'. So I don't think talking and reasoning with them would help. And the other option is to give up and move on.
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- IqRa -
07-02-2009, 12:53 PM
I would reply but sister some of us just aren't experience in these fields, and we don't know what to say. It is better to hear constructive advice, of adults, rather than hear advice of teenagers, who don't know any better.

One thing though;

Who would leave their parents with no choice but to accept and then go into a marriage without the parents being fully happy and without their total sincere du'aas?
I don't think a person can be happy with any marriage if their parents aren't happy with it, no matter how much they love the person.
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S_87
07-02-2009, 01:02 PM
i think you know my answers, but at the end of the day your parents will inshaAllah be happy when they see you happy. that is what they want in the end no? culture multure
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liya
07-02-2009, 01:46 PM
i would advise u salat istikaraah ... i had a situation like that in which a guy proposed to me and he was gud ,religious and i liked him but wen i praied ... my feelings changed subhanallah .... so belive me salat al istikaraah is the best answer for u !!!! .... its like u asking Allah is this person gud for me ?! so wen Allah answers u ur partents wouldnt hav anything to say inshaallah ...
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Re.TiReD
07-02-2009, 01:54 PM
Hypothetical insha'Allah.

JazakAllah khayr I just want opinions really. Not even advice
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syilla
07-02-2009, 02:25 PM
salams...

i just would like to add... hafsah is not really a teenager :D. She is an adult :)
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
07-02-2009, 02:46 PM
Originally Posted by Hafsah
AssalamuAlaykum
First question, would you take the first no as a final answer? Or would you try to talk them round and pursuade them more?
No, I'd spend time convincing them, Allaah changes the hearts. A first no is generally off the top of the head, but if you spend time convincing them, then you can probably bring parents around. They want to see their children happy, and if they see that marrying person x makes their child happy, they'll eventually agree, insha'Allaah.

I think everything I'd want to say in regards to this has already been summed by the brother that runs this blog:

Salaam alaykum Faiez,
You can’t get married without your parents blessing.
You have four options:
1. Find someone who both you and your parents agree is a good match.
2. Find a match who you like, but they don’t - you then have to decide if this person is worth it to you to be patient and convince them.
3. Marry someone your parents like, but that you don’t - in this case, you have to spend the time to try and turn them to your perspective while learning the ins and outs of a relationship. If you don’t change them, your kids will hold you accountable if they turn out like mom.
4. Lead a celibate life.
You seem to believe option #1 is out, and so too is option #4. You have either option #2 or option #3. I always choose option #2 because I’m not relying on myself to change my parents opinion - I’m working to follow the sunnah, so I turn to and expect Allah subhaanahu wa ta’aala to give me what I’m requesting if it’s good for me. If my intention is good, the girl is good, and the future is bright (only Allah knows), I’m confident it’ll work out. If not, it won’t.
So I wouldn’t stress too much on this. As the saying goes, “Do your best, and leave the rest (to Allah).”
Siraaj
http://muslimbestlife.com/blog/?p=140 ; comment #17

If you can think you can go w/ option #1 then figure out if you think you'll find someone better than the person the parents are not liking because of culture, or if this person is really everything you're looking for in a spouse. That said, at the end of the day if they're completely adamant, absolutely refusing, then just agree with them no matter how tough. They're worth more than any potential spouse.
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liya
07-02-2009, 02:50 PM
Ooh oky .. i wouldnt choose any1 eles except my partents really cuz for me if i lost my partents love and dua its like im cursed or something to me i think of it like that ... cuz u know u can find a person to love theres alot of fish in the sea lol but partents are something u cant replace they r the reason we r here u get me ...so yh i wud choose them but i will felt hurt insame time ...
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-02-2009, 03:41 PM
Originally Posted by amani
i think you know my answers, but at the end of the day your parents will inshaAllah be happy when they see you happy. that is what they want in the end no? culture multure
yes but only after being extremely upset - whatever happened to not allowing parents to utter "uff" EH?





i think you should have never EVEN CONSIDERED SOMEONE who you even slightly maybe THOUGHT that your parents wouldnt accept.




but since you already jumped into this fire i say ... do wateva feels most halal


Assalamu Alaikum
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ayesha309
07-02-2009, 03:47 PM
Assalaam u alaikum Sis
I had a similar situation. Just keep doing Salaat Al-Istikhara and do dua to Allah that "Allah, if this is the invididual I'm suppose to marry, then make my parents like him as well, and if this isn't the individual, then take me and my parents away from him"...duas simliar to that. Honestly, Allah listens to duas and you will be surprised at the result. Surprised and satisfied Insha'Allah. so just keep doing dua...ask Allah whether you should give up or not :D
May Allah make your siutation easy for you....Ameen
Assalaam u alaikum
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MinAhlilHadeeth
07-02-2009, 05:25 PM
:salamext:

I'd advice you to pray salaat al-istikhaarah, then try your best to get your parents to give the brother a chance. If it doesn't happen, then you know it wasn't meant to be. Allaahu A'lam.
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MinAhlilHadeeth
07-02-2009, 05:31 PM
Originally Posted by Fighting4Iman
yes but only after being extremely upset - whatever happened to not allowing parents to utter "uff" EH?





i think you should have never EVEN CONSIDERED SOMEONE who you even slightly maybe THOUGHT that your parents wouldnt accept.




but since you already jumped into this fire i say ... do wateva feels most halal


Assalamu Alaikum
:salamext:

Seriously, what is wrong with what brother Malaak and others said? There's nothing wrong with considering someone, it's wrong if the matter is approached wrongly, and the parents are angered. I don't understand why parents would be angered if there children want the halaal and approach them correctly; with manners.
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Najm
07-02-2009, 07:07 PM
Originally Posted by Fighting4Iman
yes but only after being extremely upset - whatever happened to not allowing parents to utter "uff" EH?





i think you should have never EVEN CONSIDERED SOMEONE who you even slightly maybe THOUGHT that your parents wouldnt accept.




but since you already jumped into this fire i say ... do wateva feels most halal


Assalamu Alaikum
AsSalamOAlaikum WaRehmatuAllah WaBarkatuhu

Its easy for us brothers. Even if the brothers accepts a job blindly......We stay with our parents for the rest of our lives.

But the for the sister choosing blindly is a bigger cause of problem. because if the husband side of family doesnt
protected wife, then who does she have? She gives up everything. Thats why i think its important to always look for he happiness for the sister rather than the parents.

Parents happiness comes second. Period. Parents job is to guide, not to enforce.

There are too many mummys' boys out there, who just dont care if they get married, while the sister is promised big things and gets nothing, nothing but trouble and lies. Lies and just fussy/pushy parents.....:enough!:

Marriage is with 2 spouses NOT Parents and spouse. Its a decision for life. No going back, only down hill if you choose to.....

Parents: Fear Allah!
Children: Fear Allah!

FiAmaaniAllah
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-02-2009, 08:47 PM
Originally Posted by Najm
AsSalamOAlaikum WaRehmatuAllah WaBarkatuhu

Its easy for us brothers. Even if the brothers accepts a job blindly......We stay with our parents for the rest of our lives.

But the for the sister choosing blindly is a bigger cause of problem. because if the husband side of family doesnt
protected wife, then who does she have? She gives up everything. Thats why i think its important to always look for he happiness for the sister rather than the parents.

Parents happiness comes second. Period. Parents job is to guide, not to enforce.

There are too many mummys' boys out there, who just dont care if they get married, while the sister is promised big things and gets nothing, nothing but trouble and lies. Lies and just fussy/pushy parents.....:enough!:

Marriage is with 2 spouses NOT Parents and spouse. Its a decision for life. No going back, only down hill if you choose to.....

Parents: Fear Allah!
Children: Fear Allah!

FiAmaaniAllah
subhanAllah what an extreme view towards marriage.



ONLY a lack of adhaab and shame would make a child pursue a suitor their parents abhor. PERIOD



and im proud to b a mommy's boy, sue me ! :rollseyes


Assalamu Alaikum
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Intisar
07-02-2009, 09:45 PM
:sl: You have to be patient in these types of situations, your parents only want what's best for you at the end of the day. If they want somebody who's of the same culture as you, or comes from a similar background, then you should insha'Allaah take that into account. Because they want a good relationship with the person you intend to marry. After all, that person will become their family too.

I think it's a bit naive to say ''I'm the one marrying this person, not my family'' because like I said they will become family. They're your in laws. You have to see them, interact with them, and your child(ren) will become their grandchildren.

Treat your parents with the utmost respect, and always try to explain things from an Islamic viewpoint because most often than not your parents will have to listen and will take what you say more seriously.

And if you feel that your parents opinion means the most to you, then it's time to give up. If you do so because you don't want to create a rift between your family, then mashaAllaah. Next time you're looking for someone, you can always ask them to help you.

It doesn't have to be an ultimatum with them. You can always find middle ground.
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
07-02-2009, 09:49 PM
Originally Posted by Fighting4Iman
ONLY a lack of adhaab and shame would make a child pursue a suitor their parents abhor. PERIOD
:sl:

I think you should clarify that statement. What are the reasons for the parents abhorring a suitor? Is it cultural or is it religious? What if the parents are non-practicing and the child wants a spouse who's practicing, (Hijaabi, Niqaabi or bearded)? Does he obey them and marry a woman who is going to harm his religion and his children? Many parents that come over from overseas have a very narrow view of who their child should marry because of culture, some want their child to marry a cousin from back home and if they don't comply, the parents disown the child. This is a reality. A person has the freedom to say no to a marriage if forced - which is what many parents do not get and force their daughters into marriage to a man the daughter has no liking towards. She may want a man who is religious and practicing and they want someone who's from back home, regardless if he practices or not. The forcing isn't just physical, it can be emotional too and very subtle, and in the case of sisters, it most of the time is. This isn't a black and white issue, and it shouldn't be looked at in that way, and Allaah knows best.

Once Ibn 'Umar came to the Prophet (saw) and said that his father had asked him to divorce his wife. The Prophet (saw) told him to obey his father and divorce his wife. Later on, during the time of Imaam Ahmad, the hadeeth that spoke of this incident was known to him and to his students. So a man came to him and told Imaam Ahmad that his father had commanded him to divorce his wife. Imaam Ahmad said that the man did not have to divorce her. Later, his students asked him, why did he give a ruling like that when there is a hadeeth that clearly states the opposite. Imaam Ahmad replied, "If his father was 'Umar, I'd tell him to divorce his wife." Imaam Ahmad took into account the parent and the reasons why the father of the man asked him to divorce his wife.

The point is, sometimes parents will have a completely different outlook - one that is just cultural and has no basis in Islaam. If a suitor is righteous, and the parents are refusing for a non-religious basis, then what harm is there if the man or woman takes the time to convince his parents? (The OP said: "minor cultural ones", so it's not even about parents abhorring the suitor here.)

Parents happiness comes second. Period.
I don't agree with this part either. It doesn't have to be a case of her or them, a lot of times the two parties can be reconciled happily. I don't think a person should ever marry someone at the expense of their parent's happiness - meaning that the parents are completely, adamantly, absolutely against the marriage, if they are just accept that this marriage is not good for you because you're being prevented from it by Allaah through your parents and move on. It's not worth it for either a man or a woman. Your parents reared you and took care of you and have a love for you that no other person can have, that love shouldn't be traded away.
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S_87
07-02-2009, 09:55 PM
Originally Posted by Fighting4Iman

ONLY a lack of adhaab and shame would make a child pursue a suitor their parents abhor. PERIOD




Assalamu Alaikum
:sl:

parents ABHORING a suitor is a whole different matter imo :?
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Re.TiReD
07-02-2009, 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by syilla
salams...

i just would like to add... hafsah is not really a teenager :D. She is an adult :)
Wa'alaykum As-Salaam

Maybe I'm being totally random but my brain is only awake enough to laugh at this post ;D masha'Allah. I'll be out of my teenage years soon insha'Allah :D

Ok actually, lemme give it some substance.

These are some of my random thoughts, continuing from the first post:

The only thing beyond my comprehension at the moment is this. I know that parents have every right to say no to a proposal. but to say no without even doing a background check, without giving anything a chance?

I believe that if parents gave the dude and his family a chance, and after that they saw something they didnt like, that'd be fine...or its even possible the dudes family might see something they dont like and things might not go ahead for that reason, in which case there is nothing to do but thank Allah that you realised before it was too late. But to not even give it a chance? Rabbi Inni Maghloobun fantasir

What does one do when they feel they have given things their best shot, and feel as though they'd only be content with a no from the parents if they agreed to give it a chance at least? Just one chance. The least one can do is it not?

Personally, I'd only be completely satisfied and content with Qadr if they pullled out all the stops from their end too (parents that is). Just like the courage it takes to talk about certain things with them..
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Ummu Sufyaan
07-03-2009, 04:35 AM
Originally Posted by Hafsah
AssalamuAlaykum
wa alaykum us-Salaam

Its quite simple really. So imagine you're considering a bro or a sis for marriage and its time to approach the parents. They say no, they have no grounds for refusal except minor cultural ones.
First question, would you take the first no as a final answer?
it depends. if they are legit cultural reasons eg bro x isn't suited for you becuase people in that culture are known to have lack of akhlaaq, then yes i would agree with them and leave it a that. for me personally, if i see logic in something (and yes that would be logical), i would go with what is logcal and yes! i consider my family to be logical so there would be no probs there, inshallah :D.

if it isn't legit such as bro x isnt suited for you because our culture is more superior then theirs (not that they would think that) or what they heck are people gna think if we marry our daughter to a guy of such and such culture, then no i would peruse it, becuase to me, that isn't legit. having said that though, persuading in the most respectful and kind matter. in a manner that i dont raise my voice over theirs eg show frustration, bad attitude "gimme my way or else..."...basically as gentle as possible. i would present it to them logically and in a way they understand my point of view.
i would (if necessary) get other involved an older sibling involved, for eg. if that isn't to be the convincing thing, i would take it as far as to the local imam lol to sort it out. when they see that i have involved another person (even if it aint an imam), they will stop and think ok she is not kidding, we should consider what she is saying and that would probs be a doorway to get them convinced.

so now if the imam agrees with me, then im more than sure than that would be the convincing thing for them so prob solved, alhamdulillah! :D

if they are still not convinced hmm i think it'll go either way---> i may or may not go ahead with it. i would want to but the thought of them being really upset with me, would pinch my conscious. hard imsad

you know, i think it also comes down to the relationship of the kids with their parents as well. i dno for some parents they may say no but then later on be lenient when they see that the potential is good..or that their son/daughter are happy with them. some parents are ok with their kids choosing their own spouse even if the parents may dislike them, the parents may still be leniant.


i duno cases like this remind me of that 40 yr old woman who never got married cos her dad kept rejecting every potential becuase the mahr want high enough even though the guys were good...cases like that (and even cultral cases) should be taken to a qahdi or something. you know, she either ends up as a spinster or marries someone her family want, but she cant stand....its really sad.


Would you fight it out until the end, until you got where you wanted or would you reach a stage where you think...At the end of the day we only have one set of parents, people come and go and if they are refusing, maybe there is a reason, some wisdom behind it that we cant see.
true, and that's why sometimes we should get others involved eg elder to talk to us/our parents.

Am I right in thinking that there comes a point where you just have to give up, marriage is one thing where you cannot and must not choose your happiness over ur parents happiness and them being happy with you.
no! there has to be, there just HAS to be someone where both you AND your parents are happy with.

Originally Posted by The Ruler

You could get your parents to agree without them getting upset. Why would you leave them with no choice but to accept your marriage? Instead talk and reason with them. Nicely.
agreed.


Originally Posted by Najm
Parents happiness comes second. Period.
rubbish!!! that is a really insulting thing to say about parents.

Parents job is to guide, not to enforce.
yes, but you don't just go "dump" them or think ill of them or think you dont need them anymore when you have found "a better life..." rather disgusting.


There are too many mummys' boys out there, who just dont care if they get married,
surely you can be good to your mother AND wife at the same time. surely! the way i look at it, is that there are times in your marital life where your mother takes priority and there are times where your wife takes priority. mothers don't raise kids to be slapped in the face and fathers/walis don't give away their daughters away to be cheated/deceived/neglected/ignored. the brother has to be mature on how to deal with such issues. your mother has rights over you and so does you wife. be mature and know how to handle it so that both are happy, inshallah...

while the sister is promised big things and gets nothing, nothing but trouble and lies. Lies and just fussy/pushy parents.....:enough!:
i agree with that. deception is not the way to go! being open and honest is. treat others how you want to be treated.

Marriage is with 2 spouses NOT Parents and spouse.
yes it is. your in-laws aren't there to marry their kid off to you and that's it they become like trash after that...not at all..


Originally Posted by amani
:sl:
parents ABHORING a suitor is a whole different matter imo :?
agreed...
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abdullah_001
07-03-2009, 05:57 AM
:sl:

Sister, did you pray isthikhara when the proposal came to your parents? If you did not then you should. And if you did pray isthikhara and the marriage still seems like it is unlikely to happen then with all due respect, dear sis, the person probably wasn't right for you.

:w:
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abdullah_001
07-03-2009, 06:10 AM
Originally Posted by abdullah_001
:sl:

Sister, did you pray isthikhara when the proposal came to your parents? If you did not then you should. And if you did pray isthikhara and the marriage still seems like it is unlikely to happen then with all due respect, dear sis, the person probably wasn't right for you.

:w:
Err, I may have misread the post but my point still stands. If you prayed isthikhara and the marriage didn't happen, then your parents decision was only an after effect regardless of the reason they rejected the proposal. It just wasn't meant to be. Hard to explain...

:w:
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Najm
07-03-2009, 06:57 AM
Originally Posted by Fighting4Iman
subhanAllah what an extreme view towards marriage.



ONLY a lack of adhaab and shame would make a child pursue a suitor their parents abhor. PERIOD



and im proud to b a mommy's boy, sue me ! :rollseyes


Assalamu Alaikum
AsSalamOAlaikum WaRehmatuAllah WaBarkatuhu

Which part is extreme?

Theres nothing extreme about saying..."
Parents happiness comes second. Period. Parents job is to guide, not to enforce." or "Marriage is with 2 spouses NOT Parents and spouse.".

p.s i was generalizing about mummy's boys, hence i wasn't on about you

Lets follow Islam. Islam lets us choose our suitor, parents have a say, and the chirldren have the final say!

The wife is a human being, so she can leanr to adjust and interact with the parents, so they do become happy with her.

FiAmaaniAllah
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- IqRa -
07-03-2009, 08:47 AM
People have given much advice, very long paragraphs of advice, but would they actually do any of this? I doubt it. Its all typing the same things again and again, what would you do if you were in that situation? Think about that and then reply. (No offence to anyone)
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-03-2009, 10:34 AM
what the? seriously i dont get some brothers here.

I thought we're talking about scoping out a sister ourselves whilst we know that they possess that which will displease our parents (such as not being the same culture).

OBVIOUSLY we would disagree to marry someone whos lacking greatly in islaam but thats a WHOLE DIFFERENT THING (for one WE DIDNT SCOPE HER OUT!)



why go off-topic? WHY?



red herrings i saY!



Assalamu Alaikum
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Re.TiReD
07-03-2009, 10:35 AM
Daym.

JazakAllah khayr for all the replies. Much appreciated

WassalamuAlaykum
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MinAhlilHadeeth
07-03-2009, 11:07 AM
:salamext:

I've seen some balanced replies, and I've seen some emotional replies. Let's not get upset people.

Ok, I'll speak from my own experience then. From my home country, there are a lot of tribal conflicts. I was given the opportunity to be introduced to someone from a tribe that greatly conflicts with mine, but this person and their family are upon the Sunnah and do not believe in one tribe being superior to another tribe etc., and have no interest in tribes and such. I could have chosen to turn the person down because my father might not have liked the idea, or I could have spoken to him in a calm, humble and kind manner, in the way that I felt would be best to approach him and asked his advice and support if he so wished. I chose the second, and now I'm happily married and my father was and still is extremely happy with my husband, my marriage, my son and his grandson, and all the choices I've made in my marriage up until now. Infact, my father always insists that I've brought him a lot of happiness. Same with my husband's family.

There is no harm in trying, it could actually bring you and your family a lot of happiness. However, I always insisted that I would never even dream of marrying someone that my father was displeased with, and I can see you have the same attitude sister. Parents happiness does not come second, it comes first. Seriously, you have no idea how much trouble your parents went through for you, and you will not know until you become a parent and you will continue to keep learning about these trials every day of your child/ren's life/lives. However, you deserve to be happy too... so try your best to acheive both.

If it is meant to be, it will come to pass. If not, khayr... inshaa'Allaah better things are in store for you. But just remember, that if you give up something for the sake of Allaah, Allaah will grant you better.
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Re.TiReD
07-03-2009, 11:30 AM
Wa'alaykum As-Salaam

JazakAllah khayr for the post sis. I wont comment on it much since its in the main forum, but you're right. Whatever is meant to be will come to pass

Wassalam
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
07-03-2009, 12:27 PM
Originally Posted by Fighting4Iman
what the? seriously i dont get some brothers here.
I thought we're talking about scoping out a sister ourselves whilst we know that they possess that which will displease our parents (such as not being the same culture).
OBVIOUSLY we would disagree to marry someone whos lacking greatly in islaam but thats a WHOLE DIFFERENT THING (for one WE DIDNT SCOPE HER OUT!)
why go off-topic? WHY?
red herrings i saY!

Assalamu Alaikum
Bro, even cultural difference falls in the same boat along with a set of parents wanting someone not practicing but rich - it's not a religious based reason at the end of the day, it's cultural. Both are issues in which parents base their view in terms of their cultural outlook - which children who've grown up in the West don't have because they've mixed with so many different races and are open to much more. And I still hold that there is room for taking the time to convince them in this area.

If they disagree on religious grounds, then that is a different story.
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Re.TiReD
07-03-2009, 12:33 PM
Originally Posted by Maalik

If they disagree on religious grounds, then that is a different story.
Which would very rarely be so anyway, since back in the day it was enough for him/her to be praying 5 times a day...everything else came before deen...the dunya status was looked at, how pretty the girl is, what the family is like and how many goats they have back home (ok not really <_<) And if that was the mindset then I dont think its going to change now, deen is almost never a priority for culturaly minded parents so disagreeing on religious grounds from their side would be like totally non-existent unfortunately.

Talking in general btw, my parents would and do take that into account. Alhamdulillah. But sometimes, its the little things that are picked on...making mountains out of molehills wallahi.
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- IqRa -
07-03-2009, 12:36 PM
If they disagree on cultural grounds then in a way they are correct. They think the best for you, so don't argue with that. They think the communication bit for you, what will happen to the children, what culture will they be brought up in, etc. Don't look at it one way.
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Re.TiReD
07-03-2009, 12:41 PM
Originally Posted by T.I.A
If they disagree on cultural grounds then in a way they are correct. They think the best for you, so don't argue with that. They think the communication bit for you, what will happen to the children, what culture will they be brought up in, etc. Don't look at it one way.
Each family is different as is each situation. I wont say much but what I will say is that its not always the fact that the person being considered is of a different culture, the problem lies in ones own restricting culture that pleaces far too much emphasis on respect and honour. False honour if you're doing it for the people.

Your children are everything, just give them a chance. Nothing will stop people talking, they'll talk for a while but then move on to the next bit of gossip. Its life
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- IqRa -
07-03-2009, 12:59 PM
I meant for the children that would be produced from this mixed cultural marriage. Which culture will they follow? Which language will they speak? What culture will they be known as? Etc.
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Re.TiReD
07-03-2009, 01:03 PM
Originally Posted by T.I.A
I meant for the children that would be produced from this mixed cultural marriage. Which culture will they follow? Which language will they speak? What culture will they be known as? Etc.
Yeah I know what you meant sis, what I was trying to say is that surprisingly that isnt even an issue for *some* parents. The issues that are most important to them are people talking.
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Ansariyah
07-03-2009, 07:09 PM
If the person is worth it don't give up. Parents can come around the thing is our parents just want to torture the poor guy to see if h can do anything for the girl? 'how patient he is'? Good things don't come easy.
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Najm
07-03-2009, 07:40 PM
AsSalamOAlaikum WaRehmatuAllah WaBarkatuhu


Originally Posted by T.I.A
People have given much advice, very long paragraphs of advice, but would they actually do any of this? I doubt it. Its all typing the same things again and again, what would you do if you were in that situation? Think about that and then reply. (No offence to anyone)
I though about it. And yes i would that in that situation. And by no means nobody said anything wrong, its good advice, depending on which stance you take.



Originally Posted by Fighting4Iman
what the? seriously i dont get some brothers here.

I thought we're talking about scoping out a sister ourselves whilst we know that they possess that which will displease our parents (such as not being the same culture).

OBVIOUSLY we would disagree to marry someone whos lacking greatly in islaam but thats a WHOLE DIFFERENT THING (for one WE DIDNT SCOPE HER OUT!)


why go off-topic? WHY?



red herrings i saY!



Assalamu Alaikum
A Me too, i get them either! I would try my upper most to please my parents. Its depends what you mean by pleasing. Like some parents are displeased that they didnt choose in the 1st place. Some parents dont want to let the children go. Some complain about so and so having, low status or the girl is not beautiful enough which would bring "shame" on family!! Others just worry about "what people would say" this and that and the other. They dont actually consider!

If the spouse lacks in Islam, isnt' mature, isnt' ready for marriage, looking after kids, if they cant fulfil the basic requirements etc, then i understand the parents are being displeased.

Lets put culture to oneside.


Originally Posted by Faizah
:salamext:

I've seen some balanced replies, and I've seen some emotional replies. Let's not get upset people.

Ok, I'll speak from my own experience then. From my home country, there are a lot of tribal conflicts. I was given the opportunity to be introduced to someone from a tribe that greatly conflicts with mine, but this person and their family are upon the Sunnah and do not believe in one tribe being superior to another tribe etc., and have no interest in tribes and such. I could have chosen to turn the person down because my father might not have liked the idea, or I could have spoken to him in a calm, humble and kind manner, in the way that I felt would be best to approach him and asked his advice and support if he so wished. I chose the second, and now I'm happily married and my father was and still is extremely happy with my husband, my marriage, my son and his grandson, and all the choices I've made in my marriage up until now. Infact, my father always insists that I've brought him a lot of happiness. Same with my husband's family.

There is no harm in trying, it could actually bring you and your family a lot of happiness. However, I always insisted that I would never even dream of marrying someone that my father was displeased with, and I can see you have the same attitude sister. Parents happiness does not come second, it comes first. Seriously, you have no idea how much trouble your parents went through for you, and you will not know until you become a parent and you will continue to keep learning about these trials every day of your child/ren's life/lives. However, you deserve to be happy too... so try your best to acheive both.

If it is meant to be, it will come to pass. If not, khayr... inshaa'Allaah better things are in store for you. But just remember, that if you give up something for the sake of Allaah, Allaah will grant you better.

SubhaanAllah! I really admire you post and advice as well as speaking from you own experience.

I want to stand corrected. I said "Parents happiness comes second". I never said the negative i.e that the parents happiness "doesnt count". The parents happiness counts. It does always. But it doesnt mean the children give up everything for the happiness. NO children would go out of their way to hurt their parents.

And when you mean "its meant to be", i hope you mean that the person does give it a go, rather just accepting whatever their parents say.

P.s i would speak about my own experience, but we are on a public forum, so all im going to say is, it was a similar experience to yours, but ended in the negative.

I place my trust in Allah Subhana WaTa'aala.

FiAmaaniAllah
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S_87
07-03-2009, 08:30 PM
Originally Posted by T.I.A
I meant for the children that would be produced from this mixed cultural marriage. Which culture will they follow? Which language will they speak? What culture will they be known as? Etc.
These things arent really a problem, if both speak english then their kids can speak english too..?
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-03-2009, 09:33 PM
Originally Posted by amani
These things arent really a problem, if both speak english then their kids can speak english too..?
yeah that stuff is minor


all i say is if we can get around hurtin parents why go thru it


nothing more - nothing less

say eeevery suitor your parents got was unislamic and every islamic suitor you proposed was rejected, then we'd have a problem.

but i doubt that will ever happen really, not if you been making those tahajjud dua's and having nice discussions !



heh or maybe i dream too much?


Assalamu Alaikum
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Banu_Hashim
07-03-2009, 09:55 PM
If they said no first time round, then I might be more persistent, but I'm not sure. I think I'd be a little hesitant, as it might make me look a bit stupid to being said no to again, and again etc. It depends... if it's the parents and not the potential spouse saying the no then it's different.
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MinAhlilHadeeth
07-04-2009, 11:09 PM
Originally Posted by Najm
[
And when you mean "its meant to be", i hope you mean that the person does give it a go, rather just accepting whatever their parents say.

P.s i would speak about my own experience, but we are on a public forum, so all im going to say is, it was a similar experience to yours, but ended in the negative.
:wasalamex

JazaakAllaah Khayr for your response. If you look at my first post in this thread, I said:

I'd advice you to pray salaat al-istikhaarah, then try your best to get your parents to give the brother a chance. If it doesn't happen, then you know it wasn't meant to be. Allaahu A'lam.
So yes, I meant that she should 'give it a go', in a way that would not upset her parents ofcourse... if that can be avoided.

Sorry about your experience. Perhaps there was some evil to come out of that marriage that Allaah saved you from. May Allaah grant you a righteous, compatible spouse.
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_PakistaN_
07-05-2009, 06:05 AM
Your parents have a lot more experience than you, and can pretty much figure out your desires. If you abandon your parents and make a decision, and unluckily somthing bad happens. You will have no one to turn back to.
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Re.TiReD
07-10-2009, 07:43 PM
...I has a question to ask.

You know when you do Istikharah you ask Allah to make things easier for you and facilitate it..And if its bad for you for Him to take it away from you etc.....Well sometimes when it comes to marriage, things can be difficult...You can face obstacles....So do you automatically come to the conclusion that these are obstacles that Allah has placed in your way, or do you think that this is one more thorn on the road of life, something that has been placed there for you to overcome. For people will always fight for the things they really want right? Thats what makes attainting it so much more sweeter at the end...Bi'ithnillah.

So yeah...Did the Question make sense?
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abdullah_001
07-10-2009, 08:32 PM
Originally Posted by Hafsah
...I has a question to ask.

You know when you do Istikharah you ask Allah to make things easier for you and facilitate it..And if its bad for you for Him to take it away from you etc.....Well sometimes when it comes to marriage, things can be difficult...You can face obstacles....So do you automatically come to the conclusion that these are obstacles that Allah has placed in your way, or do you think that this is one more thorn on the road of life, something that has been placed there for you to overcome. For people will always fight for the things they really want right? Thats what makes attainting it so much more sweeter at the end...Bi'ithnillah.

So yeah...Did the Question make sense?
Sis, my mum is looking for a potential spouse for my eldest brother. I used to pray for my bro in this regard (and still do) and it occurred to me in my dua that perhaps I should pray for myself too, not that I was actively looking for a spouse and so I did.

Wallahi, one of the photos my mum had sent to a certain family in order for my bros marriage also had me in the picture and guess what? The family (May Allah bless them) for some reason were so impressed by me and my demeanor (their eldest daughter had visited our home before with her husband) that they proposed if I would like to marry their youngest daughter. I am an extremely shy person in real life and when my parents took me to see the other families daughter my sweet mum didn't tell me it was for me and all the while I was under the impression it was for my eldest brother. Out of my shyness when asked to look at her I only did so for about half a second and Wallahi, her face was shining like the full moon, no joke. It had this beautiful radiant aura (hard to explain...) when I looked at her it was as though I knew her like I knew the back of my hand, a very very strange feeling.

So I prayed Isthikhara, and even though I asked Allah (swt) to grant me what was best for me in my hereafter and in this life, my heart was really inclined towards the proposal. Thats when certain things happened that made me and my mum concerned perhaps that this wouldn't happen but it's also when I realized even though I'd been praying isthikhara, I had also been praying to Allah (swt) to grant me this proposal(not gonna lie) and I realized the fallacy in my dua.

We must have patience and place our trust completely in Allah (swt). If Allah (swt) wills it then nothing in the entire existence can stop it from happening and if Allah (swt) will it not to be so, then nor you nor anyone could make it happen. We must have patience that if it doesn't happen then Allah (swt) has something better in store for us.

I read an ayah a long while back which meant none of you can attain piety until you sacrifice in the way of Allah that which you love. I used to pray to Allah (swt) (still do) to enable me to sacrifice my very core of existence for the sake of Allah(swt). But Allah (swt) knows us better than we know ourselves... subhanAllah.

The heart is so naive and childish, I used to think if I died a martyr (when I was a teen *cough*cough*) then I'll get the hooor-al-ayn but then I heard the Muslimahs of this world will be much much more beautiful than the hoors and I started thinking but who would marry me lol. SubhanAllah, when the divine decree of Allah (swt) comes to pass even a person like me is able to marry the best of women (muslim women). But now I love Allah (swt) far more than I could ever love any woman lol.

Sorry for the long post, hope I answered though through my experiences (and failures) that humans can be deceiving, we never know whom we might end up marrying (people change after marriage, just look at all the single mothers), but we can always, always trust in Allah (swt).

Aaaand with that I'm gone, sorry again for the long post, sis.

:sl:
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Najm
07-11-2009, 12:06 AM
Originally Posted by Fighting4Iman
yeah that stuff is minor


all i say is if we can get around hurtin parents why go thru it


nothing more - nothing less

say eeevery suitor your parents got was unislamic and every islamic suitor you proposed was rejected, then we'd have a problem.

but i doubt that will ever happen really, not if you been making those tahajjud dua's and having nice discussions !



heh or maybe i dream too much?


Assalamu Alaikum
AsSalamOAlaikum WaRehmatuAllah WaBarkatuhu

SubhaanAllah!! Yes you should never hurt your parents. You should have no problem with marriage then, i expect you to sit in one place, and let you parents do everything. They Decide on everything even you wont have to look at the girl, and you should be happy, cause they sure will.

Good luck with your marriage Akhi. MarshaAllah.

FiAmaaniAllah
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Ummu Sufyaan
07-11-2009, 09:30 AM
Originally Posted by Hafsah
...I has a question to ask.

You know when you do Istikharah you ask Allah to make things easier for you and facilitate it..And if its bad for you for Him to take it away from you etc.....Well sometimes when it comes to marriage, things can be difficult...You can face obstacles....So do you automatically come to the conclusion that these are obstacles that Allah has placed in your way, or do you think that this is one more thorn on the road of life, something that has been placed there for you to overcome. For people will always fight for the things they really want right? Thats what makes attainting it so much more sweeter at the end...Bi'ithnillah.

So yeah...Did the Question make sense?
always wondered the same thing...hmmm
but i remember in the past in my fam (and friends) there have been obstacles but the marriage went ahead and is fine...
but then i guess it's important to define "obstacle" i mean islamically what (if anything) would it in(ex)clude.
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