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Brasco
07-04-2009, 10:45 PM
:sl:

In the last couple of years, the Islam rabble-rousing, through the media in germany, has increased - a Muslima was killed due to her religion :( May Allah ta'ala have mercy and may she be a martyr.

It is really strange...the media is showing every little thing: if a muslim does anything wrong, there will be a full coverage in every media. "Muslim is doin that and this..." But now a Muslima was killed in front of the eyes of her 3 years old child :( Why is there no coverage?!

Here's the story:

This Muslima on occasion went with her child to a playground. There was a man blocking the swing-set, so she asked him to free it. Then he totally flipped out and insulted Marwa. He told her worst words which I really can not repeat :(

So then Marwa accused that guy for insulting her and she won in the court hearing. It was her right! That guy would be punished for insulting her! But that guy appealed, so there was after the first court hearing a second one. During that court hearing, the mand stood up and knifed to death - 18 stitches! :( She was even pregnant :( her husband wanted to help her, he was also knifed and also got shot by the police :( but alhamdulillah he did not die. He is in a coma :( :enough!:


Dear brothers and sisters, let's pray for her and her family :(

Insha'allah, she will be a martyr!!!

Tomorrow, there will be a speech of some muslims, I will be posting many infos :( Insha'allah you can do in your local masjid Salah Al janaza :(

:w:
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Layla454
07-05-2009, 04:08 PM
:w:

inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi rajioon. subhan Allah this is terrible news imsad

You're right that there has been no coverage of this at all imsad
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Zafran
07-05-2009, 04:17 PM
salaam

inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi rajioon

peace
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liya
07-05-2009, 04:37 PM
OMG!! may Allah bless them with peace amin insha allahimsad
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Souljette
07-05-2009, 05:28 PM
Inna lillahi inayilayhir raji'un ...May Allah(S.W.T) reward her and recover her husband inshallah
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Karina
07-05-2009, 05:48 PM
imsad:cry:imsad

Do you have a source for this story Brasco??
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aadil77
07-05-2009, 06:10 PM
http://www.thedailynewsegypt.com/art...rticleID=22874
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Karina
07-05-2009, 06:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
Thankyoooou!
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Brasco
07-05-2009, 06:47 PM
The media is just ridiculous! They try to hide this story, but this will not happen. They just write and broadcast, "Woman killed...". But on other stories, for example, if a muslim hits his woman, it will be like that "Muslim hits wife!" . Why not, "Husband hits wife!"???!!!

They are truly not fair - and there have been a lot of campaigns against Islam in Germany - not only through the media, but also in other ways :S

I'll show you a few pics, insha'allah! soon! All this makes me really angry :raging:

This is not a singular instance! This is the first victim! There will be more through these campaigns!! :(
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glo
07-05-2009, 06:55 PM
^
To confirm what Brasco is saying, I have searched google.de and cannot find the story covered by any of the main German papers/news sites ... imsad
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glo
07-05-2009, 06:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Brasco
The media is just ridiculous! They try to hide this story, but this will not happen.
The beauty of our modern technology, of internet blogs and forums, is that the truth is much more visible.
No longer can governments and the media hide uncomfortable truths ... the news leak out sooner or later and are soon known across the globe, without anybody being able to stop it. :)
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Brasco
07-05-2009, 07:11 PM
Most of the information, that I posted, are based on the sayings of their friends. The local mosque of that town held an interview and wanted to know about that terrible act. Today, a speech of some muslims (http://www.einladungzumparadies.de/index.php) were held in Berlin. :(
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Brasco
07-05-2009, 07:28 PM
here's a video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lSmIcEbCHQ
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Fardosa
07-05-2009, 07:33 PM
Inna lillahi wa inna illahi rajioon. Subhan'Allah.. this is insanity.
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Uthman
07-05-2009, 07:49 PM
Inna lillaahi wa inna ilayhi raaji'oon.

I'm speechless. :cry:
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aadil77
07-05-2009, 07:50 PM
http://www.pr-inside.com/german-pros...d-r1364278.htm

http://www.nj.com/newsflash/index.ss...=international

http://www.thelocal.de/national/20090703-20359.html
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جوري
07-05-2009, 10:22 PM
I heard this story today from my sister and I was fuming, she was a pharmacist..
Allah yer7mha..

la 7wala wla qiwta illa billah and 7asbona Allah wa'ni3ma alwakeel!~
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GreyKode
07-05-2009, 10:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
I heard this story today from my sister and I was fuming, she was a pharmacist..
Allah yer7mha..

still think these people are your friends and all about dialogue?
They'll not rest until they've finished each last one of you and rid the rest of their religion...

la 7wala wla qiwta illa billah and 7asbona Allah wa'ni3ma alwakeel!~

Actually, she is the wife of the son of one of my professors at Alexandria University.

Allah yer7amha, I've heard that her husband is in coma and still doesn't know the she's dead.imsad
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aadil77
07-05-2009, 10:34 PM
she was pregnant
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alcurad
07-05-2009, 10:51 PM
^her baby died too, and her husband was shot by an officer during the attack. the officer 'thought' he was the attacker :/
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Güven
07-05-2009, 10:54 PM
Inna lillaahi wa inna ilaahi raaj'oon.


how tha heck could this happen!? ****
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Intisar
07-05-2009, 10:57 PM
Inalilahi waina ilayhi raji'oon, may Allaah grant her jannatul firdaus, forgive her of her sins and save her from the torments of the grave. And may he also grant her husband sabr. :cry:

That is soooo heartbreaking subhanAllaah, really changed my mood. imsad
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Ar-RaYYan
07-05-2009, 11:01 PM
Inna lillaahi wa inna ilayhi raaji'oon

im disgusted and angry!!

what a coward! attacking a defenceless woman!

format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
still think these people are your friends and all about dialogue?
They'll not rest until they've finished each last one of you and rid the rest of their religion...
you know this is becoming so apparent these days. I just shake my head when people suggest that Islam and the West can become 'friends'
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جوري
07-05-2009, 11:10 PM
Allah has lifted the fears from their hearts and we're content with commerce and tall buildings.. we let our people die left and right.. you saw this video, of this sister losing her 2 year old son from a correctable congenital heart defect that takes twenty minutes to fix? refugees in our own land.. sob7an Allah..

http://www.youtube.com/user/waheedm

how many wake up calls do we need?

:w:
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Brasco
07-05-2009, 11:14 PM
Here are some pictures of their campaigns against islam:

GetAttachmentaspx?tnail1&ampmessageId3d6a008d d557 4360 970a a064bd1ec80e&ampAux4408CBBBE4278C4B50 -



GetAttachmentaspx?tnail3&ampmessageId3d6a008d d557 4360 970a a064bd1ec80e&ampAux4408CBBBE4278C4B50 -

GetAttachmentaspx?tnail2&ampmessageId3d6a008d d557 4360 970a a064bd1ec80e&ampAux4408CBBBE4278C4B50 -
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aadil77
07-05-2009, 11:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Güven
Inna lillaahi wa inna ilaahi raaj'oon.


how tha heck could this happen!? ****
I know it just seems bloody ridiculus, that it all happend in a courtroom and police not only failed to prevent it from happening by a basic search of weapons, but then managed to shoot the wrong person, just seems like a set up, I wonder how helpless the husband would have felt, those police should prosecuted for this
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Güven
07-05-2009, 11:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
I know it just seems bloody ridiculus, that it all happend in a courtroom and police not only failed to prevent it from happening by a basic search of weapons, but then managed to shoot the wrong person, just seems like a set up, I wonder how helpless the husband would have felt, those police should prosecuted for this

Exactly , and also How did that guy get a knife in a COURT ROOM?
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The_Prince
07-06-2009, 12:01 AM
oh man i would like to be alone in a room with this guy. :)
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KiWi
07-06-2009, 12:30 AM
inna lillahi wa inna ilaihi raji3oon :cry:
this is such depressing news imsad
may Allah grant her Paradise n her family patience inshallah

it really ticks me off the that fact that darn officer would shoot the husband instead of the attacker
i hope inshallah he gets prosecuted or something
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Muslim Woman
07-06-2009, 12:31 AM
:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by Brasco
May Allah ta'ala have mercy and may she be a martyr.
Ameen.


Code:
 But now a Muslima was killed in front of the eyes of her 3 years old child :( Why is there no coverage?!
It's nothing new. Media relate religion with crime when alleged criminal is a Muslim.
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alcurad
07-06-2009, 12:34 AM
it probably was because it's just a public hearing, not a full fledged trial, so they didn't check him for weapons and so on, still a ridiculously hard thing to believe, that everyone just stood there and let her die.

lets not get too overboard though, all parts of the world have bigots, racists, and lunatics. but the reason she was killed is indeed in need of addressing, just that we can't blame all of East germany for example for this.. foreigners are always not well treated to some degree or other anywhere, but this sort of extreme xenophobia is also reciprocated by many politicians and parties all across Europe.

of course we have our fair share of those guys too, but that's beside the point, may Allah strengthen the Ummah, and alleviate the suffering this caused.
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Muslim Woman
07-06-2009, 12:42 AM
:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by Karina

Do you have a source for this story Brasco??

Satellite?blobcolurldata&ampblobheaderimage2Fjpeg&ampblobkeyid&ampblobtableMungoBlobs&ampblobwhere1246795954253&ampssbinarytrue -

Sherbini was stabbed 18 times inside a courthouse

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...ws%2FNWELayout
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Sarada
07-06-2009, 02:13 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Brasco
:sl:

In the last couple of years, the Islam rabble-rousing, through the media in germany, has increased - a Muslima was killed due to her religion :( May Allah ta'ala have mercy and may she be a martyr.

It is really strange...the media is showing every little thing: if a muslim does anything wrong, there will be a full coverage in every media. "Muslim is doin that and this..." But now a Muslima was killed in front of the eyes of her 3 years old child :( Why is there no coverage?!
There is coverage, brother Brasco, for example in the German magazine "Bild"

Here is the link to the story:

http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/2009/07...r-ehemann.html

Having said that, I am deeply distressed that people are being persecuted and even killed for their beliefs, whether Muslim or otherwise.
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muslimah1234
07-06-2009, 03:31 PM
this story is so so sad...makes my heart bleed for her son who is left without a mother...and a husband who has bin widowed.
ther's also a link on the bbc news website...hidden away:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/8136500.stm
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muslimah1234
07-06-2009, 03:34 PM
i really dont understand how this was allowed to happen inside a courtroom! its outrageous!!!!
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Sarahd
07-06-2009, 04:15 PM
When did this happen?
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Al-Zaara
07-06-2009, 04:40 PM
Inna lillahu we inna illahu rajuun. Allah subhana we ta'ala, please grant this sister and her unborn child Jannatul fridaus and please, have mercy on her boy and husband, guide them through life and give them strength!! Amiin!!


Verdammten Idioten. Total nut-cases, all of those guilty involved!!

The husband has awoken from the coma, the body will be buried in her hometown Alexandria and their son will for now stay with an aunt there.
I hope they will check the boy regulary, this if anything, is traumatic and will have grave impact on his future. SubhanAllah..

How could she be stabbed 18 times in a courtroom, for God's sake, weren't they moving at ALL?
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GuestFellow
07-06-2009, 05:00 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/8136500.stm

I just read the article. Disgusting. I cannot tolerate these murderers. Alex W deserves the death penalty.
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Güven
07-06-2009, 05:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Al-Zaara
How could she be stabbed 18 times in a courtroom, for God's sake, weren't they moving at ALL?
That´s exactly what ive been wondering.

18 times!! that´s ATLEAST 15 seconds and that cop still ends up shooting the wrong person.
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Ansariyah
07-06-2009, 05:17 PM
ina lilahi wa ina ileyhi raja'uun. May Allah grant her the highest of firdaws n accept her as a martyr ameen.

SubhanaAllah! Wat a monster to kill a woman in such a way, wat a cowardimsad. May Allah punish him in this life n the next ameen.
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sister herb
07-06-2009, 05:17 PM
:sl:

I read about this from newspaper in my country but the paper didn´t mention she was muslim at all, just only she was a witness in the court room.
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GuestFellow
07-06-2009, 05:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister harb
:sl:

I read about this from newspaper in my country but the paper didn´t mention she was muslim at all, just only she was a witness in the court room.
How could they leave out such vital information?
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sister herb
07-06-2009, 05:54 PM
:sl:

So... same newspaper didn´t also tell anything about wounded husband, only that police used gun in there.

But sure, if attacker would to be muslim, they would tell it.

imsad
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Brasco
07-06-2009, 08:30 PM
here's a video of her: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUUB6lMTX98
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Amadeus85
07-06-2009, 09:33 PM
Thats very sad that this woman was killed, but is there any proof that she was killed because of her hijab? Is it correct to calll her a martyr?
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GreyKode
07-06-2009, 09:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Amadeus85
Thats very sad that this woman was killed, but is there any proof that she was killed because of her hijab? Is it correct to calll her a martyr?
I heard that the man insulted her, and her religion and told her she was a terrorist.

Islamically she is considered a martyr.
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Brasco
07-06-2009, 10:54 PM
this man hates muslims!! he told her the worst words. insha'allah she is a martyr! and it is fact that she was killed due to her religion! if she had no hijab she would have not be told those terrible words! may allah ta'ala grand her the highest heaven!!
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Muslim Woman
07-07-2009, 09:17 AM
:sl:


World Day for Germany's "Hijab Martyr"

The gruesome murder of a hijab-clad Egyptian woman by a German racist last week is continuing to send shockwaves among Muslims, while inspiring many to make a stand.

A proposal put forward by one of IslamOnline.net's readers for a World Hijab Day to mark the death of Marwa Al-Sherbini drew immediate support from around the world.


"We are throwing our weight behind this proposal," says Abeer Pharaon, the chair of the Assembly for the Protection of Hijab.


"Sherbini is not only a hijab martyr but also a victim of Islamophobia, from which European Muslims are suffering," she stressed.
"Her death deserves to be commemorated and marked as a World Hijab Day."


http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...ws%2FNWELayout
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Uthman
07-07-2009, 10:50 AM
Outrage over Muslim woman killed in court

Associated press

Thousands of Egyptian mourners marched behind the coffin of the "martyr of the head scarf" – a pregnant Muslim woman who was stabbed to death in a Dresden courtroom on Wednesday in front of her young son.

Many in her homeland were outraged by the attack and saw the low-key response in Germany as an example of racism and anti-Muslim sentiment.

The woman's husband was critically wounded in the attack, after he tried to intervene and was stabbed by the attacker and accidentally shot by court security.

"There is no God but God and the Germans are the enemies of God," chanted mourners for 32-year-old Marwa el-Sherbini in Alexandria, where her body was buried.

"We will avenge her killing," her brother Tarek el-Sherbini told the Associated Press by telephone from the mosque where prayers were being recited in front of his sister's coffin. "In the west, they don't recognise us. There is racism."

Sherbini, a pharmacist who was four months' pregnant and wore the Islamic head scarf, was involved in a court case against her neighbour after he called her a terrorist. She was due to testify when he stabbed her 18 times inside the courtroom in front of her three-year-old son.

The neighbour, who has only been identified as 28-year-old Alex W, remains in detention and prosecutors have opened an investigation on suspicion of murder.

The prosecutor, Christian Avenarius, said: "It was very clearly a xenophobic attack of a fanatical lone wolf."

A German government spokesman, Thomas Steg, said that if the attack was racist, the government "naturally condemns this in the strongest terms".

Source:The Guardian
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aamirsaab
07-07-2009, 10:54 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Amadeus85
Thats very sad that this woman was killed, but is there any proof that she was killed because of her hijab? Is it correct to calll her a martyr?
The fact that she was stabbed in a court room is enough to call her a martyr for JUSTICE, let alone the hijab.

May she be granted Firdaus.
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crayon
07-07-2009, 10:57 AM
Heartbreaking. Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'oon. May Allah grant her jannah.
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-Elle-
07-08-2009, 04:07 PM
I just read about this..:cry:

Inna lilahi wa ilayhi raji3oon...there's really no words to describe how I feel about such an atrocious event.

What's even more heartbreaking is, when you search on google and find the article, some of the comments which refer to the article

CONDONE what happened!!!!!

HOW IN THE WORLD CAN SOMEONE CONDONE SUCH A THING? I mean, where's the humanity???

Wether she is muslim christian atheist purple yellow black white this is wrong; POINT. How some people can publically say it's ok or "why are we talking about such things" baffles me.honestly.

Shows you what the world is coming to.
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Muezzin
07-08-2009, 04:10 PM
How on Earth did someone smuggle a knife into the courtroom? There is either a serious lack of security or this is evidence of corruption.

May Allah grant the deceased Paradise for this injustice.
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Layla454
07-08-2009, 04:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by houda~
I just read about this..:cry:

Inna lilahi wa ilayhi raji3oon...there's really no words to describe how I feel about such an atrocious event.

What's even more heartbreaking is, when you search on google and find the article, some of the comments which refer to the article

CONDONE what happened!!!!!

HOW IN THE WORLD CAN SOMEONE CONDONE SUCH A THING? I mean, where's the humanity???

Wether she is muslim christian atheist purple yellow black white this is wrong; POINT. How some people can publically say it's ok or "why are we talking about such things" baffles me.honestly.

Shows you what the world is coming to.
subhan Allah I cannot get my head around how someone can condone it? The world has gone mad imsad
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
07-08-2009, 05:56 PM
There's just one thing I couldnt comprehend about this when I first read it...the fact that everyone was able to watch the guy stab her to death 18 times. At least to half the times of that u could GET to the situation. Also the fact that the husband got shot in the leg by the secuirty by "mistake" instead of the guy who killed her. Theyd have been watchin for those 18 STABS! And the husband was ALSO STABBED! SOMETHING IS FISHY!

How on Earth did someone smuggle a knife into the courtroom? There is either a serious lack of security or this is evidence of corruption.
I wondered the same!!

Ameen to the du'as :(
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Aurora
07-08-2009, 06:28 PM
The reason she was killed wasn't totally because she was wearing the hijab (if at all), but it probably had a lot to do with her suing him as well.

In the article I read it said that he killed her outside the courtroom, not inside.
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GuestFellow
07-08-2009, 07:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aurora
The reason she was killed wasn't totally because she was wearing the hijab (if at all), but it probably had a lot to do with her suing him as well.

In the article I read it said that he killed her outside the courtroom, not inside.
Source please? I have read from the BBC article that she was stabbed inside the court room.

Ms Sherbini was stabbed 18 times by a 28-year-old Russian identified as Axel W, who leapt across the courtroom during an appeals hearing and attacked her in front of her husband and son.
Source
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Al-Zaara
07-08-2009, 08:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aurora
The reason she was killed wasn't totally because she was wearing the hijab (if at all), but it probably had a lot to do with her suing him as well.
Don't be naive. He insulted her religion, her race and for how she was dressed.

Mord im Gerichtsaal - meaning, 'murder in the courtroom', source: the well-known German magazine Bild.


People have reacted strongly all-around, and rightly so. BUT! What I do think is very wrong is to say "Down with Germany" or "Germans are the enemies of Islam", what's that all about?! Islam doesn't look at the race, for goodness sake, only the fool's and angry's irressponsible speeches are the loudest, sadly. Remember we've got Muslims from all over the world, the enemies to every human should be those that opress goodness and justice, who kill innocent people.
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GuestFellow
07-09-2009, 01:42 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aurora
The reason she was killed wasn't totally because she was wearing the hijab (if at all), but it probably had a lot to do with her suing him as well.
Who cares what his vile intentions were. The fact that he killed someone is bad enough. She shouldn't have been killed in the first place. He had no justifiable reason to attack her. She had the right to sue that vicious dog.

He can rot in hell for all I care. People like him do not belong to the society.
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GreyKode
07-09-2009, 03:46 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aurora
The reason she was killed wasn't totally because she was wearing the hijab (if at all), but it probably had a lot to do with her suing him as well.

In the article I read it said that he killed her outside the courtroom, not inside.
Ofcourse, but check out what was the reason behind the suing?
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Layla454
07-09-2009, 09:34 AM
Whether he killed her in the courtroom or not isn't a massive issue here - its still murder
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Snowflake
07-09-2009, 09:57 AM
subhanAllah :cry: Inna lillahi wa inna ilaihi ra ji oon
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- IqRa -
07-09-2009, 10:06 AM
Inna Lillaahi Wa Inna Ilayhi Raji'oon

Sad news :cry:
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syilla
07-10-2009, 07:44 AM
is in islamonline too :(
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north_malaysian
07-10-2009, 08:50 AM
Inna lillahi w inna ilayhi rajiun imsad
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Duhaa786M
07-10-2009, 11:31 AM
This is very Sad inallialaahi wainna ilayhi rajioon!!!
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Uthman
07-10-2009, 09:40 PM
Comment by Anja Seeliger:

A murder that Germany ignored

Egyptian protests over the murder of Marwa al-Sherbini have shocked Germany – but not driven home its true significance.

The first news agency reports on the murder of Marwa al-Sherbini informed the German public that a defendant had murdered a witness in the district court of Dresden. The reason was a quarrel in a children's playground.

No mention that the witness was a Muslim woman. No mention that the playground quarrel had culminated in the defendant shouting at the woman "Islamist", "Muslim *****" and "terrorist". The German press reported on the case on the back page and fell asleep. A few days later it was awakened by thousands of Egyptians who protested vociferously against the "Islamophobia" of the Germans. Islamophobic? Us? Suddenly the German federal government, which had kept silent for nearly a week, found words of sorrow. And journalists started to write long articles about the astonishing reactions in Egypt.

I don't think Marwa's murder proves German "Islamophobia". But it proves a lack of interest in the reality of today's German society that is disturbing. And the more one thinks about it, the more disturbing it gets.

Marwa had worked in a pharmacy in Dresden and her husband worked at the Max-Planck-Institut for pharmacology. Why didn't their colleagues stand up and call the whole incident what it was: a scandal? And why didn't the press ask any questions? There was reason enough. As the Berlin-based newspaper, Der Tagesspiegel, has now reported, the defendant, the Russian-German Alexander W, had asked Marwa in the courtroom: "Do you have a right to be in Germany at all?" Then he threatened her: "When the NPD comes to power, there'll be an end to that. I voted NPD."

The journalists could have reminded their readership that the extreme-right NPD had secured 5.1% of the votes in council elections in Saxony in June 2008. Dresden, where the murder took place, is the capital of Saxony. They could have reminded their readers that nearly 50% of east Germans and a quarter of west Germans agree with xenophobic statements – as a study by the Friedrich Ebert trust found in 2008. The journalists could have written about the poor integration of Russian-Germans, but also about their racism. They could have asked if Marwa would have been killed had she not worn a headscarf... and what that means for German society. They could have asked – as an Egyptian did – why Marwa's husband, while he was trying to help his wife, was shot and wounded by a policeman in the courtroom. Because he was not blond-haired?

And the journalists could have asked why the spokeswoman of the court, in her first press release, did not mention the nationality and religion of the victim – which in this special case played a significant role in the murder.

But no such questions were asked. The press treated the case as if it was something banal. Just one of these tragic incidents one cannot really understand. It was not until the demonstrations in Cairo that the details were published. And then the German press very quickly had other worries. One day after the demonstrations a radio host called Karim al-Gawhary, the Cairo correspondent of a German newspaper, and asked him: "How dangerous is it now for German tourists in Egypt?"

Source

Anja Seeliger is a German journalist. She has studied law and afterwards wrote as a freelancer for different newspapers and magazines like Spiegel, Vogue, taz, Tagesspiegel. In 2000 she cofounded the online magazine Perlentaucher which is the most read culture magazine in the German speaking internet. 2005 she co-founded signandsight.com, an online magazine that translates articles of note from the German press into Englisch.
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MinAhlilHadeeth
07-12-2009, 01:13 PM
:salamext:

Inna lillaahi wa inna ilayhi raaji'oon...

SubhaanAllaah... Allaahul Musta'aan... this is such a tragic case. What a vile, sick twisted psychotic man he must be to stab an (innocent!) pregnant woman in the stomach! I hope he gets what's coming to him.

Marwa Sherbini, 31, was stabbed 18 times by Alex W, who is now under arrest in Dresden for suspected murder.


Police are now investigating Alex W. for manslaughter.


Manslaughter or murder?
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glo
07-12-2009, 01:22 PM
Here is another article, this time from the BBC. Quite balanced, I thought:

The stabbing to death of a young Egyptian mother inside a courtroom in Germany last week has provoked a groundswell of anger in Egypt.

[...]

The bare facts of the story horrified the public. A devout and professional Muslim woman was killed while seeking justice inside a European courtroom apparently for no other reason than her being a veil-wearing Muslim woman.

She was murdered in broad daylight under the gaze of the authorities in the German city of Dresden by the very same man from whom she had sought redress for a racist slur.
The circumstances surrounding the killing of Marwa Sherbini were shocking by any standards.

She was stabbed 18 times inside the courtroom by the man, a German of Russian descent.

She had accused him of racism for calling her a terrorist, apparently because she wore the Hijab, or Muslim headscarf.

The security guards who rushed to the scene opened fire on her husband, who was trying to defend her, mistaking him for the attacker. He is in a critical condition.

Marwa Sherbini was pregnant and the whole drama unfolded in front of her four-year-old boy.

Anti-Islam claims

For the Egyptians, the majority of whom are Muslims, it was obvious that this was no ordinary crime: Ms Sherbini was killed because she was a Muslim.
Her mother told reporters that her daughter had paid a price for being a proud Muslim wearing the Islamic headscarf.

On Tuesday, the day after her funeral, angry demonstrators gathered outside the German embassy in Cairo denouncing Western civilisation as brutal and anti-Islamic.

A young woman at the demonstration told the BBC: "This is anti-Islam and our blood is not cheaper than any others.
"This is about identity. God created us all the same. We are all humans, created by the same God. "

Assurances from German officials that this was an isolated incident and that justice will be done have done little to assuage the anger.

Questions are being asked about why the attacker was allowed to take a knife inside the courtroom, and why there was such a serious security failure in a modern and efficient society like Germany.

[...]

The incident is evidence that the West does have a serious image problem in predominantly Muslim societies such as Egypt.

That is despite the fact that millions dream of travelling - and many do - to Western countries in search of a better life.

It is also proof that the theme of "Islam under attack" is a popular one.
It is exploited by Islamist activists, in the media and society at large, as well as by the governments they oppose across the region for different ends.

For the Islamists, it is an effective rallying cry to mobilise the masses against a pro-Western regime.

For the governments, it is a useful ploy to deflect public anger or local frustrations onto an external enemy.

Full article here.
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جوري
07-12-2009, 05:50 PM
^^ I could have done without the BBC conclusion..
They can't seem to let go of the dispensing of opinions.. how about less opinion and more facts?
'The masses' never liked a pro-western regime, a 'pro western' regime was imposed on them after deliberate western dissolution of a Muslim empire and constant attempts at disbanding any effort to get it back together.. the west can house the puppet governments they instated in our lands, since they all seem to love the same brand of freedom-- the sort of freedom that strips women of their clothes or kills them trying!

For the Islamists, it is an effective rallying cry to mobilise the masses against a pro-Western regime.

For the governments, it is a useful ploy to deflect public anger or local frustrations onto an external enemy.
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Brasco
07-12-2009, 09:16 PM
The islam-baiting is increasing in Germany due to political parties. I mean, it is just terrible what they're doing :S





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Banu_Hashim
07-12-2009, 09:36 PM
Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi rajiun.
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Brasco
07-12-2009, 09:48 PM
Allah ta'ala is preparing the victory for us INSHA'ALLAH :)
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جوري
07-12-2009, 10:11 PM
insha'Allah
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Brasco
07-12-2009, 10:24 PM
Dear sis, there's a lecture on that :D


Part one

Part two


Transcription


Insha'allah you can read or listen!! :D
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جوري
07-12-2009, 10:29 PM
in fact I have read on PDF

http://www.salaattime.com/downloads/...%20victory.pdf
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Banu_Hashim
07-13-2009, 09:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Brasco
Allah ta'ala is preparing the victory for us INSHA'ALLAH :)
إِذَا جَاءَ نَصْرُ اللَّهِ وَالْفَتْحُ

When the help comes from Allah and victory.

وَرَأَيْتَ النَّاسَ يَدْخُلُونَ فِي دِينِ اللَّهِ أَفْوَاجًا

And you see men entering the religion of Allah in crowds.

فَسَبِّحْ بِحَمْدِ رَبِّكَ وَاسْتَغْفِرْهُ ۚ إِنَّهُ كَانَ تَوَّابًا

So, glorify the praises of your lord and seek his forgiveness; indeed his is most-forgiving.

:)
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malayloveislam
07-13-2009, 12:05 PM
Why they need to kill a helpless woman??? They always being portrayed as heroes of gender and others while we in Asia and Oriental Muslims being portrayed as ignorant. May Allah bless the soul of al-Marhuma Marwa and her husband, forgive them their sins and enter them into the Paradise, Insha-Allah. The Law of G-d will still move-on. The murderer n matter what his faith is will have to face the consequence. That's just showing to the World that Muslims are the victims more than being the Prey as what had been typically portrayed by bias Western medias.
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noorseeker
07-13-2009, 12:12 PM
Inna lillhi wa inna lillahirajioon
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malayloveislam
07-13-2009, 12:15 PM
My advice to European Muslims and others who live in the majority non-Muslim country to be careful. We can't bear seeing our brothers and sisters being treated like non-human while we can't really help them. Strengthen your faith in Allah but just keep yourselves safe, pleasseeeeee!
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Uthman
07-13-2009, 06:48 PM
Opinion: In solidarity with all Muslims

"Marwa al-Sherbini's murder is the consequence of unchecked hate against Muslims, spread from extremists through to people at the center of society," says Stephan J. Kramer, of the Central Council of Jews in Germany.

On Monday, July 6, along with Aiman Mazyek, general secretary of the Central Council of Muslims in Germany, the Egyptian Ambassador Ramzi Ezzeldin Ramzi, Chief Constable Bernd Merbitz and the Justice Minister for Saxony, Geert Mackenroth, I visited Elwi Ali Okaz in a hospital in Dresden.

His wife, Marwa al-Sherbini, was stabbed to death by someone who hated Muslims - and this in a German court of law. Her unborn child died at the same time. Her three-year-old son was forced to watch the murder in the courtroom. Her husband, who attempted to protect her, was also critically injured.

In making this hospital visit, we wanted to offer moral support to Elwi Ali Okaz – whom, in a ghastly misunderstanding, a policeman shot after mistaking him for the attacker – and to make public our solidarity, not only with the victims of this attack, but with all Muslims in Germany.

Smug, patronizing satisfaction

Our visit received unexpectedly broad media coverage. The annoying thing about this was that some editors seemed to find the visit to Dresden by representatives of two different religions more significant than the racist murder itself. Apparently some editors found the murder of a Muslim woman much less notable than the joint appearance of two general secretaries, one Muslim the other Jewish.

In some editorials an almost smug, patronizing satisfaction could be detected, as they described an "alliance of minorities" that had finally shown itself capable of learning how to work together.

Attack on the democratic society as a whole

This situation calls for a few words of clarification. I did not travel to Dresden because I, as a Jew, belong to a minority. I made the journey because, as a Jew, I know that anyone who attacks a person because of race, nationality or religion is not only attacking that minority, but rather democratic society as a whole.

The relevant question is therefore not why a representative of the Jewish community paid his condolences and showed solidarity with Elwi Ali Okaz, but rather why there was not a steady stream of visitors or statements of solidarity from representatives of the social majority in Germany.

Why did reactions to the murder from the media and politicians come so late? This has been remedied, not least due to international public pressure. Concern is not convincing, however, if you have been forced to show it.

The wider significance of the Dresden attack

It appears that German society has not recognized the wider significance of the Dresden attack. It has failed to see that the murder of Marwa al-Sherbini is clearly the consequence of largely unchecked hate propaganda against Muslims spread by everyone from marginal extremists through to people at the center of society.

The far-right scene above all has ensured a climate of discrimination, demonization and fear of people with different beliefs and ethnic backgrounds.

Moreover, there is also a lack of awareness that society's inadequate resistance to racism threatens to encourage further acts of terrorism – the word is wholly appropriate – such as this cowardly murder in Dresden.

No alternative to extensive dialogue

For this reason, Germany needs to be tough with itself. It is not only important to isolate the agitators and punish them, but also to raise awareness on a long-term basis and disseminate knowledge about the Muslim people, its culture, religion and customs.

Our aim is to encourage more than mere tolerance, but rather respect in our dealings with each other. Nothing can replace extensive dialogue – not only between theologians and officials, but also between citizens on the whole: this is groundwork in the best sense of the word.

I know that the shock and uncertainty among Muslims is particularly great at the moment. This is understandable.

Nevertheless, they should not abandon their efforts to take their rightful place in German society. For some – and the experience of other minorities including Jews shows this – this means a balancing act between maintaining one's identity and merging with the societal environment. In resolving this dilemma, too, an open dialogue between the minority and the majority is also indispensible.

Integration does not mean assimilation. If there is mutual respect, being different is no barrier to living together.

Author: Stephan J. Kramer

This article was first published on the Qantara.de Web site, a joint project from Deutsche Welle, Germany's Federal Center for Political Education, the Goethe Institute and the Institute for Foreign Cultural Relations. Qantara.de aims to promote dialogue with the Islamic world. It is funded by the German Foreign Ministry.

Source
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north_malaysian
07-14-2009, 07:18 AM
even we have arguments so many times with the jews... but I think they understand our situation in the western world ... because before Muslims.. they faced the same situation too...
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
07-14-2009, 08:01 PM
^^ I think it depends who you are talking to. Not all are understanding..
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Muslim Woman
07-15-2009, 03:58 PM
Salaam/Peace,

Germany Honors “Hero” Hijab Martyr



Dresden is planning to name one of its streets after Marwa Al-Sherbini

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...News/NWELayout
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جوري
07-15-2009, 05:27 PM
I tell you, I clicked on that link and found some detestable comments from turds, I think Islamonline should in the least censor curse words like this forums does.. Astghfor Allah.. blatant disrespect.. but then I don't actually expect better .. likening Muslims to animals, when in fact they are not fit to be the manure letdown by animals!
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Suomipoika
07-15-2009, 06:09 PM
This really is a horrible case, and I am sorry for the dead woman and her unborn child.

---

Yet...

How many decades have there been large scale muslim immigration to Germany? How does one case end up being portraying so much? (to be honest with so many decades of muslims living in Germany I find it unrealistic that she is the "first martyr of Germany" or if she really is, what does that say about Germany?) When the victim is muslim, one case can and indeed is generalised to portray widespread phenomenom like Islamophobia. Try applying the same standards to a crime perpetrated by muslims and you are blamed of islamophobia. There is so much sensationalism, racism and westophobia around this issue yet when the perpetrator isnt muslim but the victim is, the forum critics of sensationalism and pointification stay largely quiet.

Why doesn't the murdered 15-year-old muslim girl, who was stabbed to death in Germany just few weeks before this case, get her own street named after her or any attention on this forum? Or why doesnt the hate crimes against other communities get as much Europe wide media attention, for example the murder of the gay man in Sweden early 2009 or the murder in gay pride parade before that, in both cases the perpetrators were muslims. Due to the reactions of muslim communities, or outright lack I find the article A murder that Germany ignored posted by Uthman very ironical.

There are several, really too many, hate crimes in Europe, many of them dont get any more attention than this one originally did in german press, some of them are done by muslims aswell, which in turn are ignored by muslims. So why should Germany pay any more attention to this single case when no one else does so when their communities perpetrate hate crimes?

format_quote Originally Posted by Uthmān
Many in her homeland were outraged by the attack and saw the low-key response in Germany as an example of racism and anti-Muslim sentiment.
But this is perhaps one of the most intresting quotes and I hope the people in her homeland show us what the reaction needs to be the next time a hate crime is committed by a muslim.

I don't know, the rules seem so different when the victim is muslim, but I do get the point about how muslims feel when a terrorist attack is on the news perpetrated by self-proclaimed muslims.
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جوري
07-15-2009, 06:30 PM
The west makes enough of a big deal of alleged attacks perpetrated by Muslims to hear the protests of others and apparently use it as a carte blanche to leave the entire Muslim world in unrest with illegal wars and occupations.
Hate crimes are a common thing indeed.. it is alot more visible though when done in a court of law in broad day light, I can't imagine her killer being allowed in with a knife, let alone stabbing her once or twice or three times or four times.. How many times must you stab before someone in a court room takes notice? It must have been amusing enough for even when her husband jumped to her aid, he was fired at twice, and in the witnessing eyes of their son.. and in fact if you so much as click on the islamonline link, you'll find more hate filled aganda with people going so far as calling her a dog deserving of death. And then speaking about how we oppress our women..
I am a Muslim woman, I don't need ignorant naked idiots speaking on my behalf or deflecting away and watering down this tragedy. In fact it is what you are doing now..

This isn't about alleged terrorist acts. This is about Marwa.. do you think you can focus on that or at least keep out?
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Muslim Woman
07-16-2009, 03:19 AM
Salaam

format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
I tell you, I clicked on that link and found some detestable comments from turds
Sorry to hear that :(

Sis , did u report about any offensive post ? I did about one . Hope mod will delete those horrible comments.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
07-16-2009, 03:48 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
The west makes enough of a big deal of alleged attacks perpetrated by Muslims to hear the protests of others and apparently use it as a carte blanche to leave the entire Muslim world in unrest with illegal wars and occupations.
Hate crimes are a common thing indeed.. it is alot more visible though when done in a court of law in broad day light, I can't imagine her killer being allowed in with a knife, let alone stabbing her once or twice or three times or four times.. How many times must you stab before someone in a court room takes notice? It must have been amusing enough for even when her husband jumped to her aid, he was fired at twice, and in the witnessing eyes of their son.. and in fact if you so much as click on the islamonline link, you'll find more hate filled aganda with people going so far as calling her a dog deserving of death. And then speaking about how we oppress our women..
I am a Muslim woman, I don't need ignorant naked idiots speaking on my behalf or deflecting away and watering down this tragedy. In fact it is what you are doing now..

This isn't about alleged terrorist acts. This is about Marwa.. do you think you can focus on that or at least keep out?
Yea seriously. Rightly said sis. I just see fake sympathy when people say oh im sorry that to hear but what about so and so...etc etc...something totally ridiculous as to make it look like an "oh well" sort of thing..
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Muezzin
07-16-2009, 03:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Suomipoika
This really is a horrible case, and I am sorry for the dead woman and her unborn child.

---

Yet...
Saying that as a prologue to standard complaining really makes your sentiments seem hollow. You might want to bear that in mind in future.

How many decades have there been large scale muslim immigration to Germany? How does one case end up being portraying so much? (to be honest with so many decades of muslims living in Germany I find it unrealistic that she is the "first martyr of Germany" or if she really is, what does that say about Germany?)
It’s a headline. It doesn’t need to be analysed too much.

When the victim is muslim, one case can and indeed is generalised to portray widespread phenomenom like Islamophobia. Try applying the same standards to a crime perpetrated by muslims and you are blamed of islamophobia. There is so much sensationalism, racism and westophobia around this issue yet when the perpetrator isnt muslim but the victim is, the forum critics of sensationalism and pointification stay largely quiet.
You’ve just implied that ‘If a Western person kills a Muslim, you can call it Islamaphobia with impunity, but if a Muslim kills a Western person, you cannot call it Westophobia’. Yet you just used the term ‘westophobia’ yourself.

The point is, can we stop with the sanctimonious whining on either side please?

(Yes, that was a sanctimonious whine in itself, but I’m only venting. I won’t delete any posts because they are whining. If that were to be applied to the entire Internet, only three sites would remain in existence)

Why doesn't the murdered 15-year-old muslim girl, who was stabbed to death in Germany just few weeks before this case, get her own street named after her or any attention on this forum? Or why doesnt the hate crimes against other communities get as much Europe wide media attention, for example the murder of the gay man in Sweden early 2009 or the murder in gay pride parade before that, in both cases the perpetrators were muslims. Due to the reactions of muslim communities, or outright lack I find the article A murder that Germany ignored posted by Uthman very ironical.
Really? Are murders in court rooms while the court is in session so commonplace as to be deemed un-newsworthy by the majority of outlets?

There are several, really too many, hate crimes in Europe, many of them dont get any more attention than this one originally did in german press, some of them are done by muslims aswell, which in turn are ignored by muslims. So why should Germany pay any more attention to this single case when no one else does so when their communities perpetrate hate crimes?
Because it took place in a court of law, for goodness sake. Again, this shows either a grotesque lack of security in that particular court or is evidence of corruption in that court or in the judicial system.

But this is perhaps one of the most intresting quotes and I hope the people in her homeland show us what the reaction needs to be the next time a hate crime is committed by a muslim.

I don't know, the rules seem so different when the victim is muslim, but I do get the point about how muslims feel when a terrorist attack is on the news perpetrated by self-proclaimed muslims.
Terrorist attacks are deplorable.

And so are murders committed in court rooms. During hearings. I mean, seriously, what the hell?
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Suomipoika
07-16-2009, 07:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
Saying that as a prologue to standard complaining really makes your sentiments seem hollow. You might want to bear that in mind in future.
I really do feel bad about the case but I don't know the proper etiquette complaining about the bad caused by such a tragic event.

Complaining about racism and other bad things caused by tragic events towards those who somehow felt connected to the perpetrator or perpetrators (alledged) beliefs didn't really seem to bother anyone here before, sometimes even when the incidents in questions weren't completely over. So somehow your remark seems just as hollow.

You’ve just implied that ‘If a Western person kills a Muslim, you can call it Islamaphobia with impunity, but if a Muslim kills a Western person, you cannot call it Westophobia’. Yet you just used the term ‘westophobia’ yourself.

The point is, can we stop with the sanctimonious whining on either side please?

(Yes, that was a sanctimonious whine in itself, but I’m only venting. I won’t delete any posts because they are whining. If that were to be applied to the entire Internet, only three sites would remain in existence)
The point I'm trying to make is that when a muslim kills non-muslim you cannot generalise it as a widespread phenomenom or a problem but when a non-muslim kills a muslim you apparently can and the generalisations seems far more tolerated now even tho there are some voices for moderation. I mean come on, this murder is somehow a prelude to a great war between non-muslims and muslims aswell as a sure sign why islam and the west cannot be friends.

Really? Are murders in court rooms while the court is in session so commonplace as to be deemed un-newsworthy by the majority of outlets?

Because it took place in a court of law, for goodness sake. Again, this shows either a grotesque lack of security in that particular court or is evidence of corruption in that court or in the judicial system.
Did you actually read the article? It doesn't lament the lack of reporting about the murder in the courtroom, which according to the article if not in the first page was actually reported, it laments the lack of the hate aspect being reported by germans. Something which everybody ignores at times.

Terrorist attacks are deplorable.

And so are murders committed in court rooms. During hearings. I mean, seriously, what the hell?
I think you miss my point completely. One murder leads to generalisations of violent unciviliced Germany and whatnot. When the perpetrator is muslim, this sort of attitude is very heavily criticised, now its almost ignored.
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Ar-RaYYan
07-16-2009, 11:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
I tell you, I clicked on that link and found some detestable comments from turds, I think Islamonline should in the least censor curse words like this forums does.. Astghfor Allah.. blatant disrespect.. but then I don't actually expect better .. likening Muslims to animals, when in fact they are not fit to be the manure letdown by animals!
some of those comments are just...:blind:
anywas what are those ignorant fools doing on a islamic site?!
Islamonline should not only censor curse words but also delete disgusting comments especially when they are about the prophet (pbuh)
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
07-17-2009, 02:34 AM
It could be that they're exposing the ignorant fools, otherwise people will think they don't exist and we make it up...Allahu Alam. But yea it should be deleted :/
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Muezzin
07-17-2009, 09:39 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Suomipoika
I really do feel bad about the case but I don't know the proper etiquette complaining about the bad caused by such a tragic event.

Complaining about racism and other bad things caused by tragic events towards those who somehow felt connected to the perpetrator or perpetrators (alledged) beliefs didn't really seem to bother anyone here before, sometimes even when the incidents in questions weren't completely over. So somehow your remark seems just as hollow.
Except I didn't complain about racism or mention beliefs, nor did I make any remarks that could be rendered hollow, so your comments are merely typical knee-jerk reactions caused by the chip on your shoulder.

The point I'm trying to make is that when a muslim kills non-muslim you cannot generalise it as a widespread phenomenom or a problem but when a non-muslim kills a muslim you apparently can and the generalisations seems far more tolerated now even tho there are some voices for moderation. I mean come on, this murder is somehow a prelude to a great war between non-muslims and muslims aswell as a sure sign why islam and the west cannot be friends.
I have never said that, nor do I believe that. If other members do, I disagree.

If I see prominent media political commentators spouting that rhetoric, I'll say you have a point.

Did you actually read the article? It doesn't lament the lack of reporting about the murder in the courtroom, which according to the article if not in the first page was actually reported,
Yeah. In the back page. I mean, if a murder in a court room gets pushed all the way to the back, I don't know if I even want to see what's on the front page.

it laments the lack of the hate aspect being reported by germans. Something which everybody ignores at times.
Okay.

I think you miss my point completely. One murder leads to generalisations of violent unciviliced Germany and whatnot. When the perpetrator is muslim, this sort of attitude is very heavily criticised, now its almost ignored.
Who has said the whole country of Germany is uncivilised? Who has said every German is a violent murderer?

I am really tired of people crying 'Double Standards' when there aren't any.
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Suomipoika
07-17-2009, 10:42 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
Except I didn't complain about racism or mention beliefs, nor did I make any remarks that could be rendered hollow, so your comments are merely typical knee-jerk reactions caused by the chip on your shoulder.
But it happens a lot on this forum. I've never really seen anyone complaining about it before, so why now, why me?

I have never said that, nor do I believe that. If other members do, I disagree.

If I see prominent media political commentators spouting that rhetoric, I'll say you have a point.
As I said earlier, such rhetoric and attitude is now mostly conviniently ignored. It isn't when there is a thread about some other violent incident where the perpetrators are muslim.

I don't follow the logic of needing prominent media political commentator to spout that rhetoric to have a point, such rhetoric is slammed when regular non-muslim forumites portray it towards muslims. But not now, not this time.

Yeah. In the back page. I mean, if a murder in a court room gets pushed all the way to the back, I don't know if I even want to see what's on the front page.
I'll just quote someone's feelings from earlier this thread:
Whether he killed her in the courtroom or not isn't a massive issue here - its still murder
I don't know why but I got the similar feeling that the murder in court room was just a secondary issue in the article. But perhaps it isn't for you, my criticisim was however towards those who see the ignorance of the said hate as main issue. No hate shouldn't be ignored, quite the contrary, but some sence of proportion would be nice when pontificating the germans. And if people want to condemn hate, then maybe they show us what is enough and how it is appropriate as an example when someone they feel connected to is behind a hate crime.

Who has said the whole country of Germany is uncivilised? Who has said every German is a violent murderer?

I am really tired of people crying 'Double Standards' when there aren't any.
Right, the islam and the west can't be friends and this is just a prelude to the great war wasn't enough? But what about they are out to get you, or I don't believe it's not the majority, or maybe the part about how jews understand how we weel because they were like that in Europe before. From one brutal murder to holocaust victims. And that's just from this thread, the unciviliced part I actually picked from a comment section of a news link somewhere from this thread.

I mean for goodness sake, seriously.
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Muezzin
07-17-2009, 11:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Suomipoika
But it happens a lot on this forum. I've never really seen anyone complaining about it before, so why now, why me?
Because you’re talking to me in this instance, and I feel you doth protest too much.

Protesting too much for my liking is not against the rules, so that’s why you’ll see it elsewhere from other members.

As I said earlier, such rhetoric and attitude is now mostly conviniently ignored. It isn't when there is a thread about some other violent incident where the perpetrators are muslim.

I don't follow the logic of needing prominent media political commentator to spout that rhetoric to have a point, such rhetoric is slammed when regular non-muslim forumites portray it towards muslims. But not now, not this time.
Firstly, you are the one slamming it this time.

Secondly, prominent media political commentators are in a position of authority and influence most posters on the Internet do not enjoy. This also feeds into the whole ‘Oh, the media is evil and out to get us etc’ that every Internet poster of politics feels, no matter their beliefs.

Thirdly, you’re on a mostly Muslim forum talking about politics. Did you not predict any bias?

I don't know why but I got the similar feeling that the murder in court room was just a secondary issue in the article. But perhaps it isn't for you, my criticisim was however towards those who see the ignorance of the said hate as main issue. No hate shouldn't be ignored, quite the contrary, but some sence of proportion would be nice when pontificating the germans. And if people want to condemn hate, then maybe they show us what is enough and how it is appropriate as an example when someone they feel connected to is behind a hate crime.
Okay.

Right, the islam and the west can't be friends and this is just a prelude to the great war wasn't enough? But what about they are out to get you, or I don't believe it's not the majority, or maybe the part about how jews understand how we weel because they were like that in Europe before. From one brutal murder to holocaust victims. And that's just from this thread, the unciviliced part I actually picked from a comment section of a news link somewhere from this thread.

I mean for goodness sake, seriously.
I mean for goodness sake, seriously, go and type ‘Islam’ in YouTube and look through some comments on any given video that allows them.

I mean for goodness sake, seriously, these are just people on the Internet who exaggerate for effect and have little real influence.

I mean for goodness sake, seriously, go forth and play Mario Kart.
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Suomipoika
07-17-2009, 01:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
Because you’re talking to me in this instance, and I feel you doth protest too much.

Protesting too much for my liking is not against the rules, so that’s why you’ll see it elsewhere from other members.
You are kind of dodging the point. The post I wrote the first time I wasn't talking to you. If protesting too much causes you to type complaints, then why have you not opened the chest of your console jokes to the other members who protest too much? :p

Firstly, you are the one slamming it this time.

Thirdly, you’re on a mostly Muslim forum talking about politics. Did you not predict any bias?
I came to talk and discuss with muslims. Of course I predicted some bias, does that mean I cannot talk about or point out the bias? Especially when something like this is being used to spread hate and intolerance towards Europeans and Germans.

Do you not notice that you are now actually complaining about my complaining of racist generalisations of hole group because of one incident?

Secondly, prominent media political commentators are in a position of authority and influence most posters on the Internet do not enjoy. This also feeds into the whole ‘Oh, the media is evil and out to get us etc’ that every Internet poster of politics feels, no matter their beliefs.
"Members of group A" say racist generalisations about "group B" -> "group B" condemns
"Members of group B" say racist generalisations about "group A" -> noting and complaining about the lack of condemnation by "group B" is only valid when prominent media political commentator is involved?

I mean for goodness sake, seriously, go and type ‘Islam’ in YouTube and look through some comments on any given video that allows them.

I mean for goodness sake, seriously, these are just people on the Internet who exaggerate for effect and have little real influence.

I mean for goodness sake, seriously, go forth and play Mario Kart.
The others do it too? Well, thats neat.

Anyway, I suggest to try Little King's Story, its actually fun.
Reply

Muezzin
07-17-2009, 02:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Suomipoika
You are kind of dodging the point. The post I wrote the first time I wasn't talking to you. If protesting too much causes you to type complaints, then why have you not opened the chest of your console jokes to the other members who protest too much? :p
Because I don't happen to read and respond to every single post on the forum.

I came to talk and discuss with muslims. Of course I predicted some bias, does that mean I cannot talk about or point out the bias?
Who is saying you cannot talk about or point out the bias? Have I deleted any of your posts because they do?

All I've said was that in my personal opinion, I'm sick of such complaining on either side. I specifically defined that as a personal opinion, not a forum protocol.

Especially when something like this is being used to spread hate and intolerance towards Europeans and Germans.
If there is any of that in this thread, please report it.

Do you not notice that you are now actually complaining about my complaining of racist generalisations of hole group because of one incident?
Yes I do notice. The reason I'm complaining is because we're all missing the real point here, which is not a matter of partisan politics or tit-for-tat as such. An innocent woman was murdered in a court room, which in itself is a betrayal of the justice system and makes a mockery of it.

"Members of group A" say racist generalisations about "group B" -> "group B" condemns
No members of group A condemn, in which case...

"Members of group B" say racist generalisations about "group A" -> noting and complaining about the lack of condemnation by "group B" is only valid when prominent media political commentator is involved?
Why do you expect members of group B to condemn? What exactly is there to complain about? Is this not to be expected? See what I mean?

However, if you see racism etc here (I've not read through every reply in this thread), do report it.

The others do it too? Well, thats neat.
This is Internetz, as they say. Generalisations are to be expected in political threads. It's the foundation of political debate in particular. Now, if people are hate-mongering and calling to violence and otherwise breaking the rules, please direct myself or another mod to their posts and we will deal with them.
Reply

Suomipoika
07-18-2009, 10:52 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
Because I don't happen to read and respond to every single post on the forum.
Right, so you've totally missed such behaviour before. Do you have any idea how unbelieveable that sounds? My theory is that it has just not bothered you before enough to notice it, and that's probably because the victim wasn't a muslim.

Who is saying you cannot talk about or point out the bias? Have I deleted any of your posts because they do?

All I've said was that in my personal opinion, I'm sick of such complaining on either side. I specifically defined that as a personal opinion, not a forum protocol.
Isn't that your implication? I protest too much? So that would lead to I shouldn't protest when I see something wrong? (and yes, I did realise it wasn't forum rules but your personal opinion)

Yes I do notice. The reason I'm complaining is because we're all missing the real point here, which is not a matter of partisan politics or tit-for-tat as such. An innocent woman was murdered in a court room, which in itself is a betrayal of the justice system and makes a mockery of it.
I know, I agree. So why didn't you speak before, for example when this case was a sure sign of how West and Islam cannot be friends? Or how about at the article of which the hole purpose was to point finger at the racist ignoring Germans.

Why does pointing out the real point here start at the non-muslim?

No members of group A condemn, in which case...

Why do you expect members of group B to condemn? What exactly is there to complain about? Is this not to be expected? See what I mean?
Because it has been one of the main themes and often the carrying force in several threads in here and actually elsewhere aswell. It is one of the main arguements from muslims when speaking about violent incidents perpetrated by muslims. You shouldn't generalise hole group over few incidents.

Is it to be expected? Probably yes. Should it be accepted or tolerated silently?

However, if you see racism etc here (I've not read through every reply in this thread), do report it.
I just like to point out here maybe you should have read every reply in this thread to find out why I feel like protesting instead of starting with me.

This is Internetz, as they say. Generalisations are to be expected in political threads. It's the foundation of political debate in particular.
Fair enough. To a certain point I agree, however, as I've been trying to say, such generalisations towards muslims have been a red herring here before.
Reply

Bittersteel
07-19-2009, 12:11 AM
hang on the guy who did it was Russian.Unless he doesn't go to jail for this or any serious punishment I will consider the Germans totally prejudiced.They DID fine that guy for his previous crime.
But all in all I guess they want Muslims out of Europe.
Reply

Muezzin
07-19-2009, 10:44 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Suomipoika
Right, so you've totally missed such behaviour before. Do you have any idea how unbelieveable that sounds?
Yes, your strawman is less credible than Evel Knievel riding a motorbike into space.

My theory is that it has just not bothered you before enough to notice it, and that's probably because the victim wasn't a muslim.
My theory is you should probably stop with the borderline personal comments. If you'd like to talk in Private Messages about such things, that's fine.

Although, if you want to see my personal take on these kinds of things, you need look no further than the Announcements I made in this section - this and this.

As for the victim not being Muslim... I have to laugh at that assertion. Take a look at many of the comments from Muslim members over in the thread about the Romanians in Ireland being driven violently from their homes by thugs. Here it is.

Curiously, you personally have not posted there. Shall I read far too much into it and theorise you don't care for people considered foreign in a given country? Or shall I take the more likely route and say you probably just never read it, because other news stories had pushed it off the page etc.

Isn't that your implication? I protest too much? So that would lead to I shouldn't protest when I see something wrong?
Of course not.

I know, I agree. So why didn't you speak before, for example when this case was a sure sign of how West and Islam cannot be friends?
Check your Private Messages.

Or how about at the article of which the hole purpose was to point finger at the racist ignoring Germans.

Why does pointing out the real point here start at the non-muslim?
You're reading far too much into this. I hadn't posted on the thread awhile, hadn't really checked back, and when I did, yours was the latest post I saw and decided to reply to.

However, feel free to conspiracy theorise. It makes me feel special. :)

Because it has been one of the main themes and often the carrying force in several threads in here and actually elsewhere aswell. It is one of the main arguements from muslims when speaking about violent incidents perpetrated by muslims. You shouldn't generalise hole group over few incidents.
And generalising posts have been removed.

Is it to be expected? Probably yes. Should it be accepted or tolerated silently?
Am I saying it should?

Don't mistake my grumpiness for a call for censorship.

I just like to point out here maybe you should have read every reply in this thread to find out why I feel like protesting instead of starting with me.
Yep.

Fair enough. To a certain point I agree, however, as I've been trying to say, such generalisations towards muslims have been a red herring here before.
Again, generalising posts have been removed, but if some remain, please report them.
Reply

Suomipoika
07-19-2009, 01:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
My theory is you should probably stop with the borderline personal comments. If you'd like to talk in Private Messages about such things, that's fine.
Who was it who said how holllow I sound? Isn't that kind of borderline personal comment? I've been just continuing that line of conversation. But very well, I'll reply to you in Private Messages.

Again, generalising posts have been removed, but if some remain, please report them.
Only because I whined about them like little 5 year old. Not because of the sheer mass of people who usually condemn generalisations over one case.
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
07-19-2009, 03:27 PM
^^Whenever there is an incident where the victim is a non Muslim, we do hold sympathy. The question is, do you even notice?
Reply

Muslim Woman
07-20-2009, 01:09 AM
Salaam/Peace

"Veiled Martyr - Is It Racism or...?"


Kamilia Helmy is the President of the International Islamic Committee for Woman and Child (IICWC), who is the Co-ordinator for the Coalition of Islamic Organizations (CIO).

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Reply

Muezzin
07-20-2009, 03:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aziz
But all in all I guess they want Muslims out of Europe.
If by ‘they’ you mean ‘crazy extremist skinheads’ and not ‘all German people’, then yeah, that goes without saying.
Reply

Muezzin
07-20-2009, 03:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Suomipoika
Who was it who said how holllow I sound? Isn't that kind of borderline personal comment?
Sort of. It was clumsily worded on my part, so I apologise.

Only because I whined about them like little 5 year old. Not because of the sheer mass of people who usually condemn generalisations over one case.
The report post function reduces the need to complain like a ‘little 5 year old’ in public by approximately 90%.

Well, I just pulled that statistic out of thin air, but you get the point.
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