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muslimah1234
07-11-2009, 10:58 PM
salaam!
i was just wondering wot sea-food is halaal and which is not...cuz i wantd to do some experiments while cooking :) i know fish is all halal but what about stuff like lobster?? :?
jzk!
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islamlover_girl
07-11-2009, 11:04 PM
It`s halal sister,
u can use it in ur experiments as u like in shaa Allah :)
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soloqi
07-11-2009, 11:08 PM
One question, I was once told anything from the sea is Halal....has anyone else heard this... Because sometime ago i was told oysters are not Halal... is this also true... Different people tell me different things, and when i make up my own mind after seeking the answer im told is wrong, and branded muslim imposter, funny....
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islamlover_girl
07-11-2009, 11:12 PM
Originally Posted by soloqi
One question, I was once told anything from the sea is Halal..
That`s true

Originally Posted by soloqi
sometime ago i was told oysters are not Halal... is this also true.
no it`s not
it`s halal in shaa Allah

(Say, `I find nothing in what Allâh has revealed to me that forbids the people to eat anything except it be that which dies of itself, or blood poured forth, or flesh of swine; for (all) this is unclean, or (I find that thing forbidden) what is profane, which has been sacrificed in other than Allâh's name, yet he who is constrained (to eat any of them), having no desire (for that) and having no intention to exceed the limit, (will find that) surely your Lord is Great Protector, Ever Merciful). (Quran translation Al An`am145)
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soloqi
07-11-2009, 11:23 PM
A straight answer, Many thanks sister, your forum ettiquete is an examples to others.
which sura is that, and where did the saying about things from the sea come from, a push in the right direction would be welcomed.
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rk9414
07-11-2009, 11:30 PM
There is a difference of opinion depending on which madhaab you follow. It is not permissible according to the Ahnaaf
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soloqi
07-11-2009, 11:39 PM
madhaab, are you refering to the Four Imams???
I believe this is why all the confusion, i just want to know the truth that all schools of thought agree on.
Which one has more credit than the others, there has to be one right.

Can we all agree that anything from the sea is halal.....
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alcurad
07-12-2009, 12:10 AM
^the qur'an states that food from the sea is allowed:«أحل لكم صيد البحر و طعامه متاعا لكم و للسيارة» -chapter 5:verse 96- so that really should be more than enough, regardless of what sect/mathhab you follow.

generally speaking eating that which is harmful when consumed is not allowed-this includes the specified forbidden foods such as pure blood, swine etc-, or that which feeds on unclean food-since it would be unclean too, if it is cleaned properly though, it is allowed-, or has claws/talons, such as lions and jackals etc.

as for sea food, the animals that live their entire life at sea and are not harmful when consumed are all allowed with no exception since the verse in the qur'an is very clear and general. no specification has been confirmed for lobsters or the like, there is the view that lobsters are like insects, and since we are not allowed to eat insects so should lobsters be avoided, but lobsters-and other crustaceans such as prawns and crabs etc- are quite obviously not insects, so the qias is not valid.
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soloqi
07-12-2009, 12:32 AM
Many thanks Alcurad. With regards to the swine, i have been told and come to believe that it simply is forbidden, however the reason for this is not stated.
With regards to lions and jackles, this too i have heard but is this also in a quranic verse because i could not see it in Sura 5... your help is welcomed.
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alcurad
07-12-2009, 01:05 AM
swine is/are not healthy, thus are forbidden, notice how in the verses they are usually grouped with blood, and animals that had naturally or by predator/disease etc.

for a recently diseased animal, it's certainly not healthy to eat, given it's decomposing body, and potentially whatever disease might have killed it, the same goes for blood and swine.
it is allowed to eat a dead animal if you're in a situation where there is no other food, and the human body under extreme hunger produces enough chemicals to break down the meat of the animal to the extent that it's not overly harmful.
if you could change the dead animal by some process so that it isn't harmful then it is allowed to eat regardless of previous prohibition, same goes with blood & swine.

it's easier to do with blood-usually cooking cleans it, blood sausages are an extreme case, otherwise the blood that remains in the meat and cannot be easily removed is alright to consume if the meat is cooked-than with swine, I'm not sure if swine could be purified enough to begin with, so it's usually treated as a special case, although there is nothing to indicate that.

as for the forbidding of wild hunting beasts and birds of prey, it's probably to do with their diet, as well as-medically speaking- some of them are similar to us, so diseases spread more easily. if that is avoidable, or one has no other sources of food, they also are allowed.
some scholars actually allow eating animals with claws and talons, others say it is makrooh/disliked, this needs confirmation but I think Imam Malik allows eating birds of prey such as eagles etc, Iamam Al shafi'ee-and some Hanafi scholrs-allowed eating foxes.
the evidence for forbidding them is not so strong, so the scholars disagree on this, as a rule of thumb, that which is not harmful, maybe be consumed.
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Shabir
07-12-2009, 01:08 AM
Originally Posted by alcurad
^the qur'an states that food from the sea is allowed:«أحل لكم صيد البحر و طعامه متاعا لكم و للسيارة» -chapter 5:verse 96- so that really should be more than enough, regardless of what sect/mathhab you follow.

generally speaking eating that which is harmful when consumed is not allowed-this includes the specified forbidden foods such as pure blood, swine etc-, or that which feeds on unclean food-since it would be unclean too, if it is cleaned properly though, it is allowed-, or has claws/talons, such as lions and jackals etc.

as for sea food, the animals that live their entire life at sea and are not harmful when consumed are all allowed with no exception since the verse in the qur'an is very clear and general. no specification has been confirmed for lobsters or the like, there is the view that lobsters are like insects, and since we are not allowed to eat insects so should lobsters be avoided, but lobsters-and other crustaceans such as prawns and crabs etc- are quite obviously not insects, so the qias is not valid.
what is a grasshopper (Shaami volume 9 page.446)?

according to the Hanafi fiqh copied from webpage of Muhammad ibn Adam
Darul Iftaa
Leicester , UK. In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

A:) Islam is a religion of mercy and compassion. It only commands and prohibits that which is in the best interests of the human being. The human mind however, due to it being very limited and restricted, may not be able to understand the logic behind every ruling. It may not be able to comprehend properly why a particular ruling is given, but Allah Most High- the Merciful and All-Knowing- is the best to decide what is beneficial and harmful for us, for He is the one who created us.

Allah Most High blessed humanity with His beloved Messenger (Allah bless him & give him peace), as a light and light-giving. The Sacred Law (Shariah) of Islam that the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace be upon him) came with from Allah differentiated between a living and a dead animal. Dead animals were declared unlawful (haram). Certain animals that were harmful to the welfare of humans were also prohibited, such as pigs, dogs, cats and wild animals. Thus, the animals that have been prohibited for consumption by Shariah is due to the fact that they are harmful for human consumption, whether we realize and understand this or otherwise.

After understanding the above, it should be noted that each of the four Sunni Schools of Islamic law (madhhabs) have their own principles (based on the guidelines of the Qur’an & Sunnah) with regards to which animals are lawful (halal) and which are unlawful (haram) for consumption.

Below are the basic principles of permissibility and impermissibility in the Hanafi School with regards to animal consumption, as mentioned in the classical books of Hanafi jurisprudence. (Culled from: al-Fatawa al-Hindiyya, 5/289-291, Bada’i al-Sana’i, 5/35-39 and Radd al-Muhtar, 304-308)

1) Animals that have been clearly and explicitly prohibited in the Qur’an or Sunnah are without doubt Haram, such as a swine, donkey, etc.

2) Animals that are born and live in water are all Haram with the exception of fish. All types of fishes are Halal, with the exception of that which dies naturally in the sea without any external cause. However, if a fish was to die due to some external cause such as cold, heat, being thrown to the shore by the water, colliding with a stone, etc, then it would be Halal.

Allah Most High says:

Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine…..” (Surah al-Ma’idah, V: 53)

In the above verse, Allah Almighty forbade the meat of all dead animals without differentiating between sea-animals and land-animals. Thus, all sea-animals would also be included in this general prohibition. However, fish has been exempted from this general ruling due to the explicit mention of its permissibility by the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace).

Sayyiduna Abd Allah ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him eternal peace) said: “Two types of dead meat and two types of blood have been made lawful for our consumption: The two dead meats are: fish and locust, and the two types of blood are: liver and spleen.” (Sunan Abu Dawud, Musnad Ahmad and Sunan Ibn Majah)

Moreover, there is no mention in the Sunnah literature that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) or his Companions (Allah be pleased with them all) ever consumed the meat of a sea-animal besides the fish, hence if it was permitted, it would have at least been consumed once in order to show its permissibility. (Dars Tirmidhi, 1/280)

As far as the fish which dies naturally in the sea without an external cause (samak al-tafi) is concerned, Sayyiduna Jabir ibn Abd Allah (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “What the sea throws up and is left by the tide you may eat, but what dies in the sea and floats you must not eat.” (Sunan Abu Dawud, no: 3809 & Sunan Ibn Majah)

Sayyiduna Ali (Allah be pleased with him) forbade the selling of naturally dead fish (floating fish) in the markets. (Bada’i al-Sana’i, 5/36 and al-Ikhtiyar)

In light of the above, all sea-animals are Haram except for fish. It will be permitted to eat a fish even without slaughtering it according to the rules of Shariah. However, a fish that dies naturally without an external cause and begins to float on the surface of the water (Samak al-Tafi) is also considered Haram.

3) The third principle is that, amongst the land-animals, those that have no blood in them are considered Haram, such as a hornet, fly, spider, beetle, scorpion, ant, etc.

Allah Most High says:

…for he (the Prophet) commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure)…” (Surah al-A’raf, V: 157)

Thus, animals that don’t contain blood such as spiders and others are considered to be from “what is impure” because a sound natured person would detest their consumption.

The only exception is that of a locust, for the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) clearly permitted its consumption, in the Hadith of Sunan Abu Dawud and Musnad Ahmad quoted earlier.

Similarly, Ibn Abi Awfa (Allah be pleased with him) was asked concerning the consuming of a locust and he said: “I fought with the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) in six or seven battles, and we used to eat it (locust) with him. “ (Sunan Abu Dawud, no: 3806)

4) The forth principle is that those land-animals who have blood in them but the blood does not flow, in other words animals that do not have flowing blood, are also considered Haram, such as a snake, lizard, chameleon, etc.

5) The fifth principle is that all types of pests (hasharat al-Ardh) are also considered Haram, such as a mouse, hedgehog, jerboa, etc.

The reasoning behind the prohibition of these animals is the same verse of Surah al-A’raf quoted above, in that they are considered impure (khabith) for consumption.

6) The sixth principle is, land-animals who have flowing blood in them and they survive on grass and leaves, and do not prey on other animals (i.e. non-predatory terrestrial animals) are all considered Halal, such as a camel, cow, goat, buffalo, sheep, deer, etc, although there is a slight difference of opinion within the Hanafi School with regards to the consumption of horse-meat, as will be discussed later. Also, a donkey is exempted from this general ruling, in that its meat in considered Haram for consumption.

Allah Most High says:

And cattle (an’am), He has created for you, from them you derive warmth, and numerous benefits, and of their (meat) you eat.” (Surah al-Nahl, V: 5)

And:

It is Allah Who made cattle for you, that you may use some for riding and some for food.” (Surah al-Mu’min, V: 79)

In the above two verses, Allah Most High uses the term “al-An’am” (cattle) which refers to non-predatory animals, according to the unanimous agreement of all the linguistics.

As far as the consumption of horse-meat is concerned, Imam Abu Hanifa (Allah have mercy on him) considers is somewhat disliked (makruh tanzihan) due to its honour and due to the fact that a horse is needed in Jihad. Imam Abu Yusuf and Imam Muhammad (Allah have mercy on them both) consider it Halal, and it is said that Imam Abu Hanifa also retreated to this opinion. Thus, it would be permitted to consume horse-meat, although better to avoid.

With regards to the meat of a donkey and mule, Allah Most High says:

And (He has created) horses, mules, and donkeys, for you to ride and use for show; and He has created (other) things of which you have no knowledge.” (Surah al-Nahl, V: 8)

So, in regards to all other non-predatory animals, Allah Almighty mentions that He has created them for consumption (as we have seen in the verses mention earlier). However, with regards to donkeys and mules, He mentions that they are for riding and adornment (zeenah). Had consumption of these animals been Halal, Allah Almighty would surely have mentioned it.

Moreover, Sayyiduna Abd Allah ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) forbade the meat of donkeys on the day of the battle of Khaybar.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, no: 5202)

Sayyiduna Abu Tha’laba (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) prohibited the eating of donkey’s meat. (Sahih al-Bukhari, no: 5205)

Sayyiduna Anas ibn Malik (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that a person came to the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) and said: “The donkeys have been (slaughtered and) eaten.” Another man came and said: “The donkeys have been destroyed.” The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) ordered a caller to announce to the people: “Allah and His Messenger forbid you to eat the meat of donkeys, for it is impure.” Thus the pots were turned upside down while the (donkey’s) meat was boiling in them.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, no: 5208)

With regards to the mules, Sayyiduna Khalid ibn al-Walid (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) forbade the meat of horses, mules and donkeys.” (Musnad Ahmad, 4/89, Sunan Abu Dawud, no: 3790, Sunan Nasa’i and Sunan Ibn Majah)

However, the fuqaha mention that the ruling on a mule would be that of its mother. If the mother is a donkey, then it would be definitely Haram. If the mother is some Halal animal such as a cow, it would be completely Halal, and if the mother is a horse, then the rules of eating horse-meat would apply. (See: Radd al-muhtar)

7) The seventh principle is that all terrestrial predatory animals and beasts, i.e. animals that hunt with their teeth, are considered Haram, such as a lion, cheetah, tiger, leopard, wolf, fox, dog, cat, etc.

8) The eighth principle is that all birds of prey, i.e. those that hunt with their claws/talons, are considered Haram, such as a falcon, eagle, kite, hawk, bat, etc.

The proof for both these principles (seven and eight) is the famous Hadith of Sayyiduna Abd Allah ibn Abbas (Allah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) prohibited the eating of all fanged beasts of prey, and all the birds having talons.” (Sahih Muslim, no: 1934)

Hence, all beasts and birds of prey, beasts that hunt with their teeth and birds who hunt with their talons/claws, are unanimously considered Haram.

9) The ninth principle is that birds who do not hunt with their claws and do not prey on other animals, rather they merely eat grains and crop, are all considered Halal, such as a chicken, duck, pigeon, dove, sparrow, crow, etc.

Sayyiduna Abu Musa al-Ash’ari (Allah be pleased with him) says: “I saw the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) consuming (the meat of) chicken.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, no: 5198)

10) The tenth principle is that if a Halal animal only consumes impure things to the extent that it creates bad odour in its meat and milk, then it will be Makruh to consume its meat and drink its milk. However, if it consumes other things along with the impure, or if it does not create bad smell in its meat and milk, then the meat and milk will be totally Halal. (Radd al-Muhtar, 6/340)

It is stated in al-Fatwa al-Hindiya:

“A chicken will only be considered a jallalah (hence makruh) if the majority of what it eats is impure, and that it penetrates into the meat in such a way that it creates a bad smell.” (See: al-fatawa al-Hindiyya, 5/289)

11) The last principle is that if one parent of an animal is Halal and the other Haram, consideration will be taken of the mother. Thus, if the mother is a Halal animal, the offspring would also be Halal, such as a mule whose mother is a cow. If however, the mother is a Haram animal, the offspring would also be Haram, such as a mule whose mother is a donkey.

The above were eleven general and broad principles with regards to the consumption of animal meat, according to the Hanafi School of thought. It should be noted here that the meaning of Halal is merely that one may eat of the animal, but there are separate rules with regards to slaughtering and hunting these animals, for which one may refer to previously posted articles or the books of Fiqh. Failure to comply with these rules may well render a Halal animal Haram.

In light of the above general principles, the following is a list of Halal and Haram animals in the Hanafi School: (Both these lists of animals are not exclusive)

Animals whose meat is Halal:

1) Camel

2) Goat

3) Sheep

4) Buffalo

5) Stag

6) Rabbit

7) Cow (including mountain cow)

8) Wild-ass (The prohibition in the Hadith is of domesticated donkeys)

9) Fish (of all types, including prawns according to those who consider prawns to be a form of fish. Others however, don’t permit its consumption, for they don’t consider prawns to be from the fish family. For details, see an earlier post).

10) Deer/Antelope/Gazelle

11) Duck

12) Heron (grey or white wading bird with long neck and long legs and (usually) long bill).

13) Nightingale

14) Quail

15) Parrot

16) Francolin

17) Locust

18) Partridge (heavy-bodied small-winged South American game bird)

19) Lark (North American yellow-breasted songbirds)

20) Sparrow

21) Goose

22) Ostrich

23) Dove

24) Pigeon

25) Stork

26) Rooster

27) Chicken

28) Peacock

29) Starling

30) Hoopoe (any of several crested Old World birds with a slender down-curving bill, known in Arabic as Hudhud- that was sent by Sayyiduna Suleyman (peace be upon him).

Animals whose meat is Haram:

1) Wolf

2) Hyena

3) Cat

4) Monkey

5) Scorpion

6) Leopard

7) Tiger

8) Cheetah

9) Lion

10) Jerboa

11) Bear

12) Swine/pig

13) Squirrel

14) Hedgehog

15) Snake

16) Tortoise/Turtle

17) Dog

18) Crab

19) Jackal

20) Donkey (domesticated)

21) Lizard (The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) forbade the eating of a Lizard. Recorded by Imam Abu Dawud in his Sunan from Abd al-Rahman ibn Shibl (Allah be pleased with him). Hadith no: 3790)

22) Fox

23) Crocodile

24) Weasel

25) Elephant (Radd al-Muhtar, 6/306)

26) Falcon

27) Hawk

28) Kite

29) Bat

30) Vulture

31) Mouse

32) Rat

33) All insects, such as a Mosquito, Fly, Wasp, Spider, Beetle, etc.

And Allah knows best
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north_malaysian
07-12-2009, 01:11 AM
How about kangaroos?
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جوري
07-12-2009, 01:12 AM
^^ salaamz .. Jazaka Allah khyran

simply any animal that is a 'predator' type animal has forbidden meat.. that actually would also be the case for sharks that come from the sea..

and Allah swt knows best

:w:
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north_malaysian
07-12-2009, 01:15 AM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
^^ salaamz .. Jazaka Allah khyran

simply any animal that is a 'predator' type animal has forbidden meat.. that actually would also be the case for sharks that come from the sea..

and Allah swt knows best

:w:
Malaysians eat sharks ... the smaller ones...
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Shabir
07-12-2009, 01:27 AM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
^^ salaamz .. Jazaka Allah khyran

simply any animal that is a 'predator' type animal has forbidden meat.. that actually would also be the case for sharks that come from the sea..

and Allah swt knows best

:w:
walaikum Salam, I personally never had the need to find out about the permissibility of lobster, in-fact I never even knew that there was a debate until I started using webforums a few years back. Even if it were halal in Hanafi fiqh I would not have bought it nor could I afford it for most of time so its pure a hypothetical discussion for me.

also is it not the case that it is boiled while still being alive, it should be haram on that account alone

Wasalam
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north_malaysian
07-12-2009, 01:33 AM
Originally Posted by Shabir

also is it not the case that it is boiled while still being alive, it should be haram on that account alone

Wasalam
if i'm not mistaken... we are not commanded to slaughter lobsters
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جوري
07-12-2009, 01:36 AM
I have had quite a few lobsters in my life.. I don't like them at all, I much prefer crab meat.. you are right I don't like the way they descend to their burning death.. but their meat is sort of chewy and pully for me I have no interest in it..


p.s on the note about sharks.. Sharks meat after death smells and tastes of ammonia... I don't imagine that people find that tasty but I imagine they have ways of soaking it to rid of that.. who knows..

I was taught the simple rule of not eating predatory animals and that usually covers the gamut.. unless of course you are stuck in the wilderness and have no way around it ..

and Allah swt knows best

:w:
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alcurad
07-12-2009, 01:38 AM
hmm, actually some scientists say it's nervous system is too primitive to feel pain.
and you could always kill them first, is that really a valid reason for forbidding them?
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north_malaysian
07-12-2009, 01:40 AM
Originally Posted by alcurad
hmm, actually some scientists say it's nervous system is too primitive to feel pain.
and you could always kill them first, is that really a valid reason for forbidding them?
the lobsters sold in the markets here are already dead...:blind:
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north_malaysian
07-12-2009, 01:44 AM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
p.s on the note about sharks.. Sharks meat after death smells and tastes of ammonia... I don't imagine that people find that tasty but I imagine they have ways of soaking it to rid of that.. who knows..
i dont know about those big man-eating sharks... but we usually eat the smaller ones... the big man-eating sharks are known as "Jerung" and those smaller one who are too small to eat us (but still, they can bite) are known as "Yu"..

we usually deep fry those "Yu" with tumeric powder... or just put those in a curry..
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ahsan28
07-12-2009, 01:56 AM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
How about kangaroos?
Kangaroo Meat

By Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani
Posted: 11 Zul Qa'Dah 1428, 22 November 2007



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q.) A number of Muslim brothers and sistes in Australia have informed me that Kangaroo (Australian native anima) is halal. The reasoning they have provided is that it eats plants and grasses and does not eat other animal meat. Is this the only criteria in determining whether an animal is haram or halal? I have also been aware that the type of foot the animal has also determines that halal or haram status of animals?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



A.) Kangaroo is a halal animal because there is no basis for its prohibition. The only condition is that it should be slaughtered with all necessary conditions of Islamic slaughtering.


http://www.albalagh.net/qa/kangarro_meat.shtml
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Shabir
07-12-2009, 01:58 AM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
if i'm not mistaken... we are not commanded to slaughter lobsters
why would I need to know that since it is haram in my mazhab and I am not allowed to eat it in the first place?
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Shabir
07-12-2009, 02:06 AM
Originally Posted by Shabir
why would I need to know that since it is haram in my mazhab and I am not allowed to eat it in the first place?
I am so dumb its beyond belief, I only came here yesterday to get eHafiz to help me with something (he was kind enough to do that) but me being me got my self in to another fine mess in this thread. I'll go now to ask him to disable this account too

wasalam
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alcurad
07-12-2009, 02:52 AM
don't be too hard on yourslef bro, we all learn and grow :)

ok that rhymed, anyway, differences in opinion should not be reason for expressing them.

aren't sharks endangered btw? are we allowed to eat such animals that are going to go extinct?
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AntiKarateKid
07-12-2009, 04:10 AM
Originally Posted by soloqi
madhaab, are you refering to the Four Imams???
I believe this is why all the confusion, i just want to know the truth that all schools of thought agree on.
Which one has more credit than the others, there has to be one right.

Can we all agree that anything from the sea is halal.....
All three schools respected one another and there isn't really any enmity between them.Each one is legitimate and you can follow what makes sense to you.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Yanal
07-12-2009, 04:34 AM
:sl:

Crabs are haaram? Please clarify.

:w:
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ardianto
07-12-2009, 04:08 PM
Originally Posted by Yanal
:sl:

Crabs are haaram? Please clarify.

:w:
Muslim scholars in my place say, there are two kinds of crabs.
First, crabs that can live out of the water. These crabs are catagorized as amphibia, and these are haaram.
Second, crabs that cannot live out of the water, or can live out of the water for few moments but no longer. These are Halal, and we can eat these crabs.

And about lobster, all scholar in my place agree, lobster is halal.
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AntiKarateKid
07-12-2009, 07:08 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
Muslim scholars in my place say, there are two kinds of crabs.
First, crabs that can live out of the water. These crabs are catagorized as amphibia, and these are haaram.
Second, crabs that cannot live out of the water, or can live out of the water for few moments but no longer. These are Halal, and we can eat these crabs.

And about lobster, all scholar in my place agree, lobster is halal.
Wait. Are you trying to say crabs are amphibians???
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Rabi'ya
07-12-2009, 07:19 PM
:sl:

this is something which has always confused me too. I grew up eating crab and I really like it. However, aftr I became Muslim, someone told me that it is not permissible as it can live in and out of water. I;m unsure this is tru as I've always seen crabs within a wet environment. Allah knows best and as I was told this I have stayed away from crab just to be on the safe side. It would be nice to have soe clarification. Also, my friend told me that its only under Hanafi madhab that crab is not permissible.
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alcurad
07-12-2009, 07:54 PM
^crabs and the rest of the crustaceans are ok, regardless of their living in water all the time or not. there is no evidence for making them haram.
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Imam
07-12-2009, 08:38 PM
Originally Posted by Rabi'ya
:sl:

this is something which has always confused me too. I grew up eating crab and I really like it. However, aftr I became Muslim, someone told me that it is not permissible as it can live in and out of water..
Crab meat is halaal according to All scholars except Hanafi school...

the following are the opinions of the 4 Mazhabs regarding sea food:


1- Every animal that comes out of the sea to be Halal (Malik and Shafy).

2-Every animal that comes out of the sea to be Halal except ,the sea snake ,the frog,the crocodile.(Ibn Hanbal).

3- Every animal that comes out of the sea is Haram except the fish which not found float and dead.(Abu Hanifa)

4- the animals in sea that has similars on land should be treated the same

fpr example if there is an animal in the sea looks like a cow then it is ok to be eaten,and if an animal looks like a swine,dog etc not to be eaten (another opinion of Hanbali,Shafy)

The proofs for every opinion and the conclusion:


1- (Malik and Shafy).

[005:096] It is lawful for you to fish in the sea, and to eat what ye shall catch, as a provision for you and for those who travel.

the verse is general and no exception..


2- (Ibn Hanbal)all ok except the frog ,due to the hadith narrated in Abu Dawod That the prophet prohibited the killing of the frogs...
the crocodile cause it eats sometimes the humans
and the snake as it is one of the nastiest.

3- (Abu Hanifa) the other animals in sea except the fish is nasty and
the float fish is dead and all dead is forbidden 2:173 He hath only forbidden you dead meat, and blood, and the flesh of swine...


Conclusion:

The first opinion seems to be stronger as the Quranic proof text is clear and general without exception,and there is no other clue to make exceptions for the sea animals...


Abd Allah ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him eternal peace) said: “Two types of dead meat and two types of blood have been made lawful for our consumption: The two dead meats are: fish and locust, and the two types of blood are: liver and spleen.” (Sunan Abu Dawud, Musnad Ahmad, 2/97 and Sunan Ibn Majah, no: 3314)


Jabir ibn Abd Allah (Allah be pleased with him) said: “The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) sent troops to the sea-coast and appointed Abu Ubayda ibn al-Jarrah (Allah be pleased with him) as their commander, and they were 300 (men). We set out, and we had covered some distance on the way, when our journey-food and provision ran short. So Abu Ubayda ordered that all the food present with the troops be collected, and it was collected. Our journey-food was dates, and Abu Ubayda kept on giving us our daily share from it little by little until it decreased to such an extent that we did not receive except a date each. I (Jabir) asked: “How did you survive on one date?” He said: “We came to know its value when even that finished.” Jabir added: “Then we reached the sea (coast) where we found a fish like a small mountain. The people (i.e. troops) ate from it for 18 nights (i.e. days). Then Abu Ubayda ordered that two of its ribs be fixed on the ground (in the form of an arch) and that a she-camel be ridden and passed under them. So it passed under them without touching them.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, no: 4102, Kitab al-Maghazi)
Reply

north_malaysian
07-13-2009, 01:15 AM
Originally Posted by Imam

1- Every animal that comes out of the sea to be Halal (Malik and Shafy).

2-Every animal that comes out of the sea to be Halal except ,the sea snake ,the frog,the crocodile.(Ibn Hanbal).
If I'm not mistaken, in Shafiite, animals that can live in both land and water are haraam... ie. sea snake, frog, crocodile, turtles, tortoise and some species of crabs that live on land...
Reply

MeccaStar
07-13-2009, 01:27 AM
Sis it's Halal because anything from the ocean is 100% Halal
Reply

ardianto
07-13-2009, 04:18 AM
Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
Wait. Are you trying to say crabs are amphibians???
No !.
I say 'Muslim scholar in my place say'..................And they are not me.:D
I am disagree with them because I know crabs are not amphibians. And I ate crabs. Not only me, many Muslims in my place ate crabs, and no one forbade them.
In fact, that was not fatwa, just opinion.
Reply

north_malaysian
07-13-2009, 05:20 AM
Originally Posted by ardianto
No !.
I say 'Muslim scholar in my place say'..................And they are not me.:D
I am disagree with them because I know crabs are not amphibians. And I ate crabs. Not only me, many Muslims in my place ate crabs, and no one forbade them.
In fact, that was not fatwa, just opinion.

in Malaysia, there are two kind of crabs:

1) the crabs that live only under the sea... which they cant live without water... this is allowed to eat

2) the crabs which have no problem living on the land, on the tree, under the sea, under a rock, under your home .... this kind of crabs are prohibited...

Allahu Aalem
Reply

ardianto
07-13-2009, 05:42 AM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
in Malaysia, there are two kind of crabs:

1) the crabs that live only under the sea... which they cant live without water... this is allowed to eat

2) the crabs which have no problem living on the land, on the tree, under the sea, under a rock, under your home .... this kind of crabs are prohibited...

Allahu Aalem
But I see in markets, those crabs can live in dry basket !.
Are those crabs in number 2) ?. :scared:
Reply

north_malaysian
07-13-2009, 06:07 AM
Originally Posted by ardianto
But I see in markets, those crabs can live in dry basket !.
Are those crabs in number 2) ?. :scared:
those crabs which considered halal here are the blue crabs, orange crabs and flower crabs...

i dont know about the crabs sold in Indonesian market.. maybe in can live for a while on land?

The reason why there are Number 2 crabs because there are crabs in Malaysia which dont live in the water, they live in jungles, on the trees...
Reply

Imam
07-13-2009, 10:16 AM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
If I'm not mistaken, in Shafiite, animals that can live in both land and water are haraam... ie. sea snake, frog, crocodile, turtles, tortoise and some species of crabs that live on land...

peace Bro,

The famous and authorized opinion in Shafie Mazhab is what I mentioned

Imam Al Nawawi wrote:

نقل النووي (27) أن الصحيح المعتمد عند الشافعية حل ميتة جميع ما في البحر إلا الضفدع .
قال أصحابنا أو بعضهم يحلي جميع ما فيه إلا الضفدع للنهي عن قتله أ.هـ .


The correct,authorized opinion in Shafie Mazhab that all what comes of the sea food is lawful except the frog.



Imam Ibn Qudama wrote in his book Al-Mughni:


وجاء في المغني لابن قدامة » كتاب الصيد والذبائح » مسألة حكم ما كان مأواه البحر وهو يعيش في البر » فصل حكم أكل ما لا يعيش إلا في الماء:
( 7829 ) فصل : وكل صيد البحر مباح , إلا الضفدع . وهذا قول الشافعي


Every sea food is lawful except the frog according to Imam Shafei....



peace
.
Reply

muslimah1234
07-13-2009, 12:41 PM
so its halal!
most pple say it is...although some disagree. i guess we have to ask a scholar or sum1
jzk for the replies
Reply

syilla
07-14-2009, 05:10 AM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
those crabs which considered halal here are the blue crabs, orange crabs and flower crabs...

i dont know about the crabs sold in Indonesian market.. maybe in can live for a while on land?

The reason why there are Number 2 crabs because there are crabs in Malaysia which dont live in the water, they live in jungles, on the trees...
Yes if the crab can survive more than 1 day without water than that is not the type of crab that live in the sea...we should be very careful. Especially those dark coloured crabs.

lots of muslims that live in the village catch these kind of crabs and sell this to the non-muslims since it has high value and can make lots of money from it.
Reply

ardianto
07-14-2009, 05:19 AM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
those crabs which considered halal here are the blue crabs, orange crabs and flower crabs...
Those are orange crabs !
Alhamdulillah.
Reply

north_malaysian
07-14-2009, 05:40 AM
Originally Posted by syilla
Yes if the crab can survive more than 1 day without water than that is not the type of crab that live in the sea...we should be very careful. Especially those dark coloured crabs..
dark coloured crabs? like swampy or "lumpur" colour right?
Reply

north_malaysian
07-14-2009, 05:41 AM
Originally Posted by Imam
peace Bro,

The famous and authorized opinion in Shafie Mazhab is what I mentioned

Imam Al Nawawi wrote:

نقل النووي (27) أن الصحيح المعتمد عند الشافعية حل ميتة جميع ما في البحر إلا الضفدع .
قال أصحابنا أو بعضهم يحلي جميع ما فيه إلا الضفدع للنهي عن قتله أ.هـ .


The correct,authorized opinion in Shafie Mazhab that all what comes of the sea food is lawful except the frog.



Imam Ibn Qudama wrote in his book Al-Mughni:


وجاء في المغني لابن قدامة » كتاب الصيد والذبائح » مسألة حكم ما كان مأواه البحر وهو يعيش في البر » فصل حكم أكل ما لا يعيش إلا في الماء:
( 7829 ) فصل : وكل صيد البحر مباح , إلا الضفدع . وهذا قول الشافعي


Every sea food is lawful except the frog according to Imam Shafei....



peace
.
from our school textbooks .. they mentioned in Shafiite rite we cant eat turtles, crocs and frogs because they are not sea/water creatures..
Reply

north_malaysian
07-14-2009, 05:42 AM
Originally Posted by ardianto
Those are orange crabs !
Alhamdulillah.
is it from the sea or they live on the trees?

My mum prefer to cook blue crabs...
Reply

ardianto
07-14-2009, 02:31 PM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
is it from the sea or they live on the trees?

My mum prefer to cook blue crabs...
I try to find some information about crabs in Indonesia.
Those orange crabs are sea crabs.
I found some Indonesian offered land crabs in web, and it price is expensive.

About lobster. I want to eat lobster, but lobster price is ..... wow !
Reply

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