Anti-Islam Anti-Muslim Protests in Birmingham

[The_Prince]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqGSa...eature=channel, you can watch the rest of the videos on the side-bar, and here is a report:

http://barthsnotes.wordpress.com/200...in-birmingham/

this wasnt reported at all in the news, i found out by chance because some guy left a comment on one of my videos saying he attended these protests.

:) this should start waking some Muslims up and face the music that a pattern is happening here, if we continue downplaying this as a minor thing, or that its just a few minority extremists then it will only be bad for us, the warning signs all over the place.

[Foxhole]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqGSa...eature=channel, you can watch the rest of the videos on the side-bar, and here is a report:

http://barthsnotes.wordpress.com/200...in-birmingham/

this wasnt reported at all in the news, i found out by chance because some guy left a comment on one of my videos saying he attended these protests.

:) this should start waking some Muslims up and face the music that a pattern is happening here, if we continue downplaying this as a minor thing, or that its just a few minority extremists then it will only be bad for us, the warning signs all over the place.

A similar thing is said by neocons about Islamic extremists.

[aadil77]

thers another one on the 8th august

[The_Prince]

A similar thing is said by neocons about Islamic extremists.

they can say what they want, but the fact is is that this anti-Muslim group arent a small minority as we Muslims like to commonly say. These people are on the rise, you have the recent success of many right wing groups as a testament and proof of that.

:)

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[The_Prince]

whats also funny about these guys is they claim to be anti-Islamic EXTREMIST, yet their website pages etc etc are all attacking the Islamic faith itself, and the Muslims.

[samsam]

I can not believe that this is happening in birmingham . There was an demostration against BNP by the muslims last week saturday . Why attack Islam when it is not responsible for watevaa they say

[Amadeus85]

That was a strange video on YouTube there, barely can see anything. I guess that Birmingham is the most multicultural city in UK (except London). I wouldnt like to live there if i was a Britton.

[The_Prince]

That was a strange video on YouTube there, barely can see anything. I guess that Birmingham is the most multicultural city in UK (except London). I wouldnt like to live there if i was a Britton.

you dont sound like a very fun person, what, you want to be around people from your culture and backround only?

[Ar-RaYYan]

I cant believe this is happening in Birmingham of all places!

thers another one on the 8th august

what in Birmingham City Centre?

[aadil77]

what in Birmingham City Centre?

yeh birmingham thats all i kno

[Ar-RaYYan]

That was a strange video on YouTube there, barely can see anything. I guess that Birmingham is the most multicultural city in UK (except London). I wouldnt like to live there if i was a Britton.

Well thank god you dont live in Birmingham then! i wouldnt like to be surrounded by people like you either!

[Amadeus85]

you dont sound like a very fun person, what, you want to be around people from your culture and backround only?

I guess so, just like You would like to live in islamic enviroment I suppose right?
If I was an Englishman, I would really cry seeing what hapenned to cities like Birmingham, used to be an european city. On the other hand the Englishmen should blame only themselves, so the protesters should scream not against muslims, who just hapenned to appear in UK because of globalization, capitalism and brittish colonialism, but against themselves, white Englishmen.

[GuestFellow]

Hmmm

Do they have an actual reason for protesting? Other than 9/11 or the London bombing. All I see is people going bwaaah. Shouldn't this have been done a while ago? There hasn't been a terrorist attack for a while. I am against extremists though I am not sure what this supposed to be about. I get the impression they are protesting against Islam or the general Muslims that live in the UK. Some of them were chanting ''Muslims out.''

[The_Prince]

I guess so, just like You would like to live in islamic enviroment I suppose right?
If I was an Englishman, I would really cry seeing what hapenned to cities like Birmingham, used to be an european city. On the other hand the Englishmen should blame only themselves, so the protesters should scream not against muslims, who just hapenned to appear in UK because of globalization, capitalism and brittish colonialism, but against themselves, white Englishmen.

what exactly has happened to Birmingham?

[جوري]

Amadeus85 - you are on the wrong forum if you prefer a more homogeneous environment!.. perhaps the sad brits should look for another continent to unload their homogeneous selves after much carnage upon the world for which they are paying by having to open their doors (if at all).. oh wait, I believe we call that Australia..

[جوري]

A similar thing is said by neocons about Islamic extremists.

isn't it delightful to know that hate indeed breeds hate? what would you like? for us to be stabbed 18 times repeatedly in court awaiting western justice perhaps?

[convert]

I urge muslims everywhere to take up self-defense and, if your country allows it, purchase and learn to operate firearms. The community in South Africa had to form small militias a few years ago to protect themselves during riots. These mouth-breathing limesuckers clearly are looking to start pogroms of muslims.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you convert;

I urge muslims everywhere to take up self-defense and, if your country allows it, purchase and learn to operate firearms.

If you buy a gun and shoot a member of the opposition in self defence, they will have to buy guns, and shoot two of your relatives, so that justice can be seen to be done.

Civil wars can last centuries when there are angry people on both sides.

The greater path is forgiveness, and peaceful resistance to violence, the world has to become a better place for our children and grandchildren.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people

Eric

[convert]

That was the most foolish, fairytale thing I've read in a long time.

I say again: oh muslims, learn to defend yourself and know how to shoot so nobody gets any cute ideas about what they're gonna do to you.

[Trumble]

That was the most foolish, fairytale thing I've read in a long time.

Actually it's a fundamental tenet of his religion. Not to mention being totally true. Even a fool can realize that islamophobia can only be intensified if the muslims concerned start stocking up on guns and ammunition.

We are talking about Birmingham here, not Mogadishu.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you convert;

That was the most foolish, fairytale thing I've read in a long time.

Is it foolish to forgive?

In the spirit of praying to a just and merciful God

Eric

[Raaina]

Sad, very very sad.
This is why the media are not to be trusted. I blame them for things like this.

[convert]

Its foolish to forgive when someone comes to kill you and drive you out of your home.

You can forgive; I'd rather protect myself, my family, and my brothers and sisters.

Allah has ordained us to fight those who come to fight and oppress us and Allah speaks the truth. Before you all get all bent out of shape, I am not arguing for anyone to go out indiscriminately attacking anyone here, just don't let anyone do it to you.

"When they kick out your front door, how you gonna come? With your hands on your head or the trigger of your gun?"

[Blackpool]

Who do you guys blame for these demos that we're beginning to see? Just a few months ago we saw some of these demos in Luton. To me, these demos started to crop up and the anger has been intensified since the jeering of the British troops as they arrived home in the UK. That changed the mindset of many people.
Do you blame the media, the Islamic extremists or...?

If there was a protest against Islamic extremism where I live I'd be there in a flash to protest against EXTREMISM and to show a bit of nationalism but looking at this video it does seem to have turned anti-muslim.

[convert]

Mostly media and some to do with muslims themselves not being straightforward with their deen. Obviously since wars are being raged against muslims, the media will be compliant to governments in order to deliver them a Goldstein for the people to have their 2-minutes hate.

The general populace, at least in my country, I've found will listen to and respect Islam if muslims would just stop playing games and trying to placate people. Such groups like Quillam, Radical Middle Way, etc in Britain are doing much more harm to muslims than good by denying aspects of the deen. Orientalists to some extent expose them and people have a distrust of muslims because of this.

Europe is a bit different than where I live though; historically, Europe more than any place else, seems to turn to racism and extreme nationalism in times of economic peril and it seems Europe is looking for a scapegoat.

[GuestFellow]

isn't it delightful to know that hate indeed breeds hate? what would you like? for us to be stabbed 18 times repeatedly in court awaiting western justice perhaps?

I guess that would make them happy. >_>

[The_Prince]

I urge muslims everywhere to take up self-defense and, if your country allows it, purchase and learn to operate firearms. The community in South Africa had to form small militias a few years ago to protect themselves during riots. These mouth-breathing limesuckers clearly are looking to start pogroms of muslims.

you have spoken my mind, down the road in the future me and some brothers are planning to set up such orginizations, we are planning to set up a Muslim defense brigade etc, which will train Muslims in self defense, and will be an organized group which will also stand up to defend the Muslim community from hate crimes.

[The_Prince]

there are millions of Muslims in the west, we could easily set up a well orginized Muslim group of up to 25 thousand to 30 thousand members who's only goal is to defend the Muslim community in the west from neo-nazis and islamophobic people, we could have them guarding mosques, certain homes, etc etc. no doubt this will happen in the future.

[Trumble]

Who do you guys blame for these demos that we're beginning to see? Just a few months ago we saw some of these demos in Luton. To me, these demos started to crop up and the anger has been intensified since the jeering of the British troops as they arrived home in the UK. That changed the mindset of many people.

I think the 'mindset' was always there. These people have been around as long as I can remember; they just need an excuse. It needn't be muslims, once it was Jews, then blacks and/or asians and more recently it has been Eastern Europeans.

Overall, I'm positive in that if you look at the facts racism and religious bigotism are really nowhere near as bad in the UK as they were 20 or 30 years ago, although I appreciate that may be be hard to see if you are caught up in the middle of it. The BNP of today is playing at it compared with the old National Front of the 1970's. The real difference is in the attitude of young and although there may be the odd step back generally the movement is forward.

... and will be an organized group which will also stand up to defend the Muslim community from hate crimes.

There already is one. It's called the 'police'. They have their faults, true, but the sort of vigilante group you suggest will put put more muslims in more danger, rather than less. Surely you must see that?

[noorseeker]

okay, brummies here

surprised if its in city centre, its very multi cutural, the centre is neutral terrority for every one

[aadil77]

okay, brummies here

surprised if its in city centre, its very multi cutural, the centre is neutral terrority for every one

brother were you there? is it worth having people come over for the next one?

[Zafran]

salaam

The people in the video sounded like they were in a football match.

[Amadeus85]

you have spoken my mind, down the road in the future me and some brothers are planning to set up such orginizations, we are planning to set up a Muslim defense brigade etc, which will train Muslims in self defense, and will be an organized group which will also stand up to defend the Muslim community from hate crimes.

I think that the bad image of asian and african immigrants make some youths who not only like to stab a knife in a Brit, Italian or Swede, but whats worst they are into gang-rapes, they aim especially blonde european young women, which is reported every month across Europe.

[Zafran]

I think that the bad image of asian and african immigrants make some youths who not only like to stab a knife in a Brit, Italian or Swede, but whats worst they are into gang-rapes, they aim especially blonde european young women, which is reported every month across Europe.

wow you sound like a Nazis and a racist - there are plenty of "white" kids stabbing "Brits" as there are "black" and "asian" Kids - talking about Gang rape is definitly not exclusive to specific races.

[Ansariyah]

I think that the bad image of asian and african immigrants make some youths who not only like to stab a knife in a Brit, Italian or Swede, but whats worst they are into gang-rapes, they aim especially blonde european young women, which is reported every month across Europe.

u are full of exaggerating, it's beyond belief.

Amadeus we all know u are white. Wen u keep down'talking/singling'out other races like this, u do realise that it makes u look racist?

[GuestFellow]

I think that the bad image of asian and african immigrants make some youths who not only like to stab a knife in a Brit, Italian or Swede, but whats worst they are into gang-rapes, they aim especially blonde european young women, which is reported every month across Europe.

There are rotten apples in every country/race/religion etc.

salaam

The people in the video sounded like they were in a football match.

lol Indeed.

[Layla454]

I think that the bad image of asian and african immigrants make some youths who not only like to stab a knife in a Brit, Italian or Swede, but whats worst they are into gang-rapes, they aim especially blonde european young women, which is reported every month across Europe.

You are generalizing massively. There are evil people from all walks of life

[noorseeker]

Seeing it now im shocked at where it was staged, right before the bull ring entrance and in front of the phones 4 u,

I have no idea of what the demo was advertised at, but it looked like football chanting and a few racist comments thrown.


If all the muslims stopped in brum, i think the centre would come to a stop. buses, shops, etc

Without looking i bet the counter march was full of british whites defending us.

[Amadeus85]

You are generalizing massively. There are evil people from all walks of life

I said some asian youths (in UK its mostly Pakistani). In Italy there were really examples of rapes done by Morrocans and Tunisians but also by Romanians and Gypsies. To defend the italian women, the citizens of italian cities created civil militias. This is reality, I didnt take it from comic book, but from serious newspapers or tv channels. For example in Sweden young africans and asians like to target blonde girls. I wish it wasn't true, but it is. I suppose that it's also caused by the gangsta culture imported from USA, who knows. Of course that in every population you can get black sheeps, but if we realize the problem, its easier to solve it, or at least understand the situation better. And the sad but true fact is that gangs of young asians and africans, who vandalize, attack innocent citizens, are one of the factors of current european dislike for the immigrants.

[Zafran]

I said some asian youths (in UK its mostly Pakistani). In Italy there were really examples of rapes done by Morrocans and Tunisians but also by Romanians and Gypsies. To defend the italian women, the citizens of italian cities created civil militias. This is reality, I didnt take it from comic book, but from serious newspapers or tv channels. For example in Sweden young africans and asians like to target blonde girls. I wish it wasn't true, but it is. I suppose that it's also caused by the gangsta culture imported from USA, who knows. Of course that in every population you can get black sheeps, but if we realize the problem, its easier to solve it, or at least understand the situation better. And the sad but true fact is that gangs of young asians and africans, who vandalize, attack innocent citizens, are one of the factors of current european dislike for the immigrants.

what about the illiegal immigration circles by the Italian mafia - or there drug trade.

what about the rough eastend gangs of London

The Russian sex slave trade

anti semitism by right wingers.

Non of these things are imported they were there for a long time.

Lets not forget that "blacks" and "asians" are minorities - so its easy to blame them and overlook the majority of the population and the majority mafia men who are not ethinic minorities and are into drugs,prostiution and go to church on sundays.

[Blackpool]

There is definately a huge problem with crime committed by blacks in this country. I know there are whites that commit crime but black crime has a higher ratio. I've often spoke to black people when I lived in the South and there's always this "yo dnt mess wiv me man" attitude. From my experience, this is in the majority of them. The government came out a few years ago to state their concerns of the black population if I remember correctly.
Of course there are decent black people but just not enough!

As for these demos, I'm in favour of them demonstrating against EXTREMISTS but it looks to me they're protesting against the muslim population living in Britain. That is down to a lack of understanding of muslims and Islam. There are a handful of people at my work that are wary of muslims that come in and so often make petty remarks and the rest. From their understanding, muslims equals terrorists or supporters of terrorism and I think the people in this video have the same mindset too..

[GuestFellow]

I said some asian youths (in UK its mostly Pakistani). In Italy there were really examples of rapes done by Morrocans and Tunisians but also by Romanians and Gypsies. To defend the italian women, the citizens of italian cities created civil militias. This is reality, I didnt take it from comic book, but from serious newspapers or tv channels. For example in Sweden young africans and asians like to target blonde girls. I wish it wasn't true, but it is. I suppose that it's also caused by the gangsta culture imported from USA, who knows. Of course that in every population you can get black sheeps, but if we realize the problem, its easier to solve it, or at least understand the situation better. And the sad but true fact is that gangs of young asians and africans, who vandalize, attack innocent citizens, are one of the factors of current european dislike for the immigrants.

Yes it is indeed a problem; however immigration is not the source of the problem. The majority of people come to the UK to work and live a better lifestyle. Are you talking about Asian youths born in the UK or Asian youths that have come to the UK?

The source of the problem is how the society functions and how soft the law is on young youths. In poorer areas, where young kids do not receive the best education or are not motivated turn to crime. They are bored and are not motivated. The government should stop spending money on interactive whiteboards and other useless technology, and should simply focus on good teaching techniques.

I personally believe corporal punishment should be employed to teach members of violent gangs a lesson. The criminal legal system is too soft on these criminals. Criminals convicted of a particular offence should be dealt with severely.

People don't like immigrants because they fear they will take up all the jobs, houses and get more benefits. Odd thing is, once upona time Britain needed immigrants to do the dirty work for them...

That is down to a lack of understanding of muslims and Islam. There are a handful of people at my work that are wary of muslims that come in and so often make petty remarks and the rest. From their understanding, muslims equals terrorists or supporters of terrorism and I think the people in this video have the same mindset too..

You have a point. I know many Muslims around my area who do not know nothing about Islam. Not even the basics. Some have quite a lot of knoweldge about Islam though don't behave like good Muslims. Though they don't support terrorism. They are simply immature like any other teen. :/

[Blackpool]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoOwtPJNsAM


At 03:06 you can hear them chanting "you can shove your f... Allah up your ......" and "Allah is a Christian."

****... this is anti-Islam. Almost kicks off at 07:54.

[GuestFellow]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoOwtPJNsAM


At 03:06 you can hear them chanting "you can shove your f... Allah up your ......" and "Allah is a Christian."

****... this is anti-Islam. Almost kicks off at 07:54.

They are simply provocative. Best to be ignored. They want Muslims to respond. Then that way they will accuse them of terrorist or something along those lines.

[aadil77]

Best thing probably is for muslims to stay at home on the 8th, that way they'll get annoyed at protesting against no one

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you convert;

Its foolish to forgive when someone comes to kill you and drive you out of your home.

Here are two quotes from people I greatly admire, they both stood up to oppression, they were both killed, but look what they have to say about forgiveness.

This link was copied from the LI forum, and it is very powerful
http://www.dreammanifesto.com/forgiv...FVUA4wodxkDl_w

• Martin Luther King
“Forgiveness is not an occasional act. It is a permanent attitude."

•

Mahatma Gandhi
“The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.”

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people

Eric

[adam11]

assalamu alaykom brothers and sisters,

I assume you've heard of this counter-protest:
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=9991532179

I have spoken to many Muslim youth. A group of them are planning to come in England shirts and shout ENGLAND ENGLAND back at the fascists, and then do a mass prayer right in front of them. There will most likely be a white British Muslim revert leading them on the megaphone.

I ask all those who will be in the Birmingham counter-protest to allow them the space to perform this mass prayer. It will be symbolic if the media are watching. The Muslim youth of the city of Birmingham, praying to Allah in the face of racist chants and abuse coming from behind the police lines.

They have said that they are against fanatics like Anjem Choudary and HizbuTahrir, if any of them are seen they will be ejected from the anti-fascist protest. Because these characters are used effectively by the fascists as strawmen, and have so far handed them this confrontation on a plate.

They have also said that whilst they are aware that the 500+ thugs on their way to the city centre are looking for a violent confrontation, they are not going to make it easy for them to have it. They want to show restraint.

Promising stuff!

[Eric H]

Blessings and peace be with you adam11; thank you so much for an inspiring first post, and welcome to the forum.

I assume you've heard of this counter-protest:
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=9991532179

I have spoken to many Muslim youth. A group of them are planning to come in England shirts and shout ENGLAND ENGLAND back at the fascists, and then do a mass prayer right in front of them. There will most likely be a white British Muslim revert leading them on the megaphone.

I ask all those who will be in the Birmingham counter-protest to allow them the space to perform this mass prayer. It will be symbolic if the media are watching. The Muslim youth of the city of Birmingham, praying to Allah in the face of racist chants and abuse coming from behind the police lines.

Promising stuff

I am sure this is how God wants us all to find solutions, to pray openly in front of adversity.

Are there interfaith groups in Birmingham, I am sure this is the kind of event they would support.

In the spirit of praying for greater interfaith relations

Eric

[adam11]

Thank you Eric H. I am generally not that active on forums these days, but I hope that these are not my last posts as well :D

[adam11]

And to those who say that the Muslims best option is to stay at home, I disagree:

1. These kind of people must be confronted (not violently, but confronted nevertheless) wherever they turn up. They are not interested in dialogue, and any spare space and time given to them - they will use it to their best advantage.
2. If they are not confronted in the City Centre then where will they head when they get bored of not shouting at anyone? Look at what happened in Luton, they marched to the Asian areas of Luton. Shop windows were smashed, people were intimidated, and at least one man got beaten up (and this man was Hindu!). A few weeks later, a petrol bomb was thrown at a Mosque.



And to those who are worried that the Muslims are not doing anything about the nutters in their own camp, please refer to this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX7Oh7YJMGo&NR=1



I'm sure there are Interfaith organisations that would be interested. I do not personally have any contact with them. I have it from Assed Baig that BMI and MCB are endorsing this protest, so perhaps they will be able to reel some other faith leaders into the cause.


Oh and by the way, the number of thugs coming to Birmingham on 8/8 (if you know about Neo-Nazis, you'll know that this number has a meaning just like the number 18) has increased to over 600!

[barrio79]

Amadeus85 - you are on the wrong forum if you prefer a more homogeneous environment!.. perhaps the sad brits should look for another continent to unload their homogeneous selves after much carnage upon the world for which they are paying by having to open their doors (if at all).. oh wait, I believe we call that Australia..

I would have thought that after all the wonderful things Great Britain has done for the world some one would have a kind word for them.
Also if someone takes you into their home and gives you succour it should be repaid in kind if one was to follow the commandments

[Blackpool]

assalamu alaykom brothers and sisters,

I assume you've heard of this counter-protest:
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=9991532179

I have spoken to many Muslim youth. A group of them are planning to come in England shirts and shout ENGLAND ENGLAND back at the fascists, and then do a mass prayer right in front of them. There will most likely be a white British Muslim revert leading them on the megaphone.

I ask all those who will be in the Birmingham counter-protest to allow them the space to perform this mass prayer. It will be symbolic if the media are watching. The Muslim youth of the city of Birmingham, praying to Allah in the face of racist chants and abuse coming from behind the police lines.

They have said that they are against fanatics like Anjem Choudary and HizbuTahrir, if any of them are seen they will be ejected from the anti-fascist protest. Because these characters are used effectively by the fascists as strawmen, and have so far handed them this confrontation on a plate.

They have also said that whilst they are aware that the 500+ thugs on their way to the city centre are looking for a violent confrontation, they are not going to make it easy for them to have it. They want to show restraint.

Promising stuff!

Whoever thought of that is a genius.

[glo]

assalamu alaykom brothers and sisters,

I assume you've heard of this counter-protest:
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=9991532179

I have spoken to many Muslim youth. A group of them are planning to come in England shirts and shout ENGLAND ENGLAND back at the fascists, and then do a mass prayer right in front of them. There will most likely be a white British Muslim revert leading them on the megaphone.

I ask all those who will be in the Birmingham counter-protest to allow them the space to perform this mass prayer. It will be symbolic if the media are watching. The Muslim youth of the city of Birmingham, praying to Allah in the face of racist chants and abuse coming from behind the police lines.

They have said that they are against fanatics like Anjem Choudary and HizbuTahrir, if any of them are seen they will be ejected from the anti-fascist protest. Because these characters are used effectively by the fascists as strawmen, and have so far handed them this confrontation on a plate.

They have also said that whilst they are aware that the 500+ thugs on their way to the city centre are looking for a violent confrontation, they are not going to make it easy for them to have it. They want to show restraint.

Promising stuff!

Thanks for sharing, Adam.

This could be a fine example of a peaceful protest!
Will you let us know if the event took place and how it went?

[Zafran]

I would have thought that after all the wonderful things Great Britain has done for the world some one would have a kind word for them.
Also if someone takes you into their home and gives you succour it should be repaid in kind if one was to follow the commandments

what do you mean by that???

[convert]

what do you mean by that???

Basically, he wants the world to thank Britain for their colonial exploitation. Quaint.

[The_Prince]

assalamu alaykom brothers and sisters,

I assume you've heard of this counter-protest:
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=9991532179

I have spoken to many Muslim youth. A group of them are planning to come in England shirts and shout ENGLAND ENGLAND back at the fascists, and then do a mass prayer right in front of them. There will most likely be a white British Muslim revert leading them on the megaphone.

I ask all those who will be in the Birmingham counter-protest to allow them the space to perform this mass prayer. It will be symbolic if the media are watching. The Muslim youth of the city of Birmingham, praying to Allah in the face of racist chants and abuse coming from behind the police lines.

They have said that they are against fanatics like Anjem Choudary and HizbuTahrir, if any of them are seen they will be ejected from the anti-fascist protest. Because these characters are used effectively by the fascists as strawmen, and have so far handed them this confrontation on a plate.

They have also said that whilst they are aware that the 500+ thugs on their way to the city centre are looking for a violent confrontation, they are not going to make it easy for them to have it. They want to show restraint.

Promising stuff!

this sounds fun, too bad i wont be in England when this happens, i would have def gone to this to see those thug rioters and make them more angry.

[aadil77]

this sounds good, I only suggested staying at home cause it might have had some effect.

But this sounds wayy better, so is it definately goin down? And do we have to be there for zohr salaah then?

[Blackpool]

this sounds fun, too bad i wont be in England when this happens, i would have def gone to this to see those thug rioters and make them more angry.

Why would you want to make them more angry? It would only mean trouble for muslims. I support the idea if the main objective of it was to send a peaceful message to the people of the UK. Doing it to mock us would be pretty offensive and would cause a hell lot of trouble. I hope it isn't the latter for everybodys sake.

I have doubts that this will even take place. If anyone is attending take a video coverage of it and post it... :thumbs_up

[جوري]

I would have thought that after all the wonderful things Great Britain has done for the world some one would have a kind word for them.
Also if someone takes you into their home and gives you succour it should be repaid in kind if one was to follow the commandments

what wonderful things? imposing an open door policy on china and forcing them into opium addiction? shooting at peaceful protesters in India? dividing up and assigning illegal borders in Africa? using indian and pakistanis as front line infantry for their wars and taking pride that they start wars without losing a single british soldier? occupying Hong Kong with the promise of British citiznery and then telling them it isn't valid? putting a chunk of Sudan in Egypt to force their troops to remain there while stealing money from the suez canal, as well using Egyptians for organ donations whenever one of their turds was down? instating the colonial settler cockroach state of Israel in Palestine? God so many wonderful things I almost lost count!



word to the wise.. buzz off!

[Blackpool]

what wonderful things? imposing an open door policy on china and forcing them into opium addiction? shooting at peaceful protesters in India? dividing up and assigning illegal borders in Africa? using indian and pakistanis as front line infantry for their wars and taking pride that they start wars without losing a single british soldier? occupying Hong Kong with the promise of British citiznery and then telling them it isn't valid? putting a chunk of Sudan in Egypt to force their troops to remain there while stealing money from the suez canal, as well using Egyptians for organ donations whenever one of their turds was down? instating the colonial settler cockroach state of Israel in Palestine? God so many wonderful things I almost lost count!

... But apart from all that! :D

[جوري]

... But apart from all that! :D

Let's put it this way, on my brief stay on the colonialist little island 'funded in totality' by my American dollars, I managed a bout of deep depression & and thousands of dollars on tickets back to the U.S every few weeks to get over my accompanying home sickness...

I liked the weeniwotsits if that counts for anything?

[Blackpool]

Let's put it this way, on my brief stay on the colonialist little island 'funded in totality' by my American dollars, I managed a bout of deep depression & and thousands of dollars on tickets back to the U.S every few weeks to get over my accompanying home sickness...

I liked the weeniwotsits if that counts for anything?

I suffer from home sickness to :) I can't stay out of this country for a day longer than 2 weeks. Even in Florida I was looking forward to coming back to Britain after 2 weeks. It's natural.
To be quite honest with you I don't think I could live anywhere else...!

[convert]

Don't think I'd like England, too many British there for my tastes.

[Blackpool]

Don't think I'd like England, too many British there for my tastes.

And PROUD of it too! :) English/British and very very proud.

[GuestFellow]

And PROUD of it too! :) English/British and very very proud.

Actually I'm confused. How can you be proud of something that you have no control over? Like you had no control over choosing which country you were going to be born in...

[Blackpool]

Actually I'm confused. How can you be proud of something that you have no control over? Like you had no control over choosing which country you were going to be born in...

Easy. I'm proud of our history, culture, country, way of life, resources and the people of this country. I am British and I am proud of every aspect of it. I am just as, if not more, proud of being English/British than alot of the muslims are of their religion that you see in here. I just don't rant about it until...

[GuestFellow]

Easy. I'm proud of our history, culture, country, way of life, resources and the people of this country. I am British and I am proud of every aspect of it. I am just as, if not more, proud of being English/British than alot of the muslims are of their religion that you see in here. I just don't rant about it until...

I see. It is fine to be proud of your background. The only issue I can foresee when people might begin to view other races as inferior. I see that take place in international sporting events o_o

[جوري]

nothing good ever came out of nationalism or patriotism...
ones identity should be their liege to God alone!... above family, above country...
especially a country with such a dark history and so much blood on its hands!
God created the earth and he didn't favor a part or a people ..

49:13 O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full Knowledge and is well-acquainted (with all things).

[Blackpool]

nothing good ever came out of nationalism or patriotism...
ones identity should be their liege to God alone!... above family, above country...
especially a country with such a dark history and so much blood on its hands!
God created the earth and he didn't favor a part or a people ..

The same could really be said of religion in regard to wars.

[جوري]

it could be indeed, but shouldn't!
your concern with religion at least as far as Islam is concerned is Justice amongst all people.. as you can see from Quran which we take along with the Sunna to be our guide or ''Constitution'' that God doesn't favor a race or a people over another save by their righteousness and he is the best judge of who is and who isn't just.

You are free to love england all you want, I have no quarrels with you, but it isn't something that should be expected from the rest of humanity..
we don't see it the same way you.. in fact folks often mistake nostalgia and good memories for something other than what it is, given if you had the same circumstance and same memories else where you'd feel the same.. the evocation is not through valid reasoning that all can agree upon rather an emotive personal experience...


all the best

[Blackpool]

it could be indeed, but shouldn't!
your concern with religion at least as far as Islam is concerned is Justice amongst all people.. as you can see from Quran which we take along with the Sunna to be our guide or ''Constitution'' that God doesn't favor a race or a people over another save by their righteousness and he is the best judge of who is and who isn't just.

You are free to love england all you want, I have no quarrels with you, but it isn't something that should be expected from the rest of humanity..
we don't see it the same way you.. in fact folks often mistake nostalgia and good memories for something other than what it is, given if you had the same circumstance and same memories else where you'd feel the same.. the evocation is not through valid reasoning that all can agree upon rather an emotive personal experience...


all the best

Can I ask you if you feel the same way as to those that have a sense of pride/patriotism to Pakistan?

[GuestFellow]

Can I ask you if you feel the same way as to those that have a sense of pride/patriotism to Pakistan?

I'm Pakistani. I don't have any pride in my country at all. I just like Pakistan because I am able to ride a horse in the countryside! ._.

Then again I like Britain as well because I prefer cold than heat.

[جوري]

Can I ask you if you feel the same way as to those that have a sense of pride/patriotism to Pakistan?

pakistan? why in the world that country out of all others? or did you assume me Pakistani? I was actually born in Tanzania to non-Tanzanian parents, lived there for about 40 days so I have no memories. My father a former diplomat (now retired) took us (his family) just about every where from london, to Holland, to Turkey, to Egypt, to Saudi Arabia, to the U.S and everything you can think of in between. So the answer to spare you further assumptions as to my identity is NO, I have no loyalty to any place, my loyalty is to doing good when I can by the means that God has bestowed upon me, which I have utalized through hard work and study!
my brain and heart belong inside my body and I take them both wherever I go!

all the best

[Blackpool]

pakistan? why in the world that country out of all others? or did you assume me Pakistani? I was actually born in Tanzania to non-Tanzanian parents, lived there for about 40 days so I have no memories. My father a former diplomat (now retired) took us (his family) just about every where from london, to Holland, to Turkey, to Egypt, to Saudi Arabia, to the U.S and everything you can think of in between. So the answer to spare you further assumptions as to my identity is NO, I have no loyalty to any place, my loyalty is to doing good when I can by the means that God has bestowed upon me, which I have utalized through hard work and study!
my brain and heart belong inside my body and I take them both wherever I go!

all the best

Why did I choose Pakistan? Because in the UK it's in the norm for muslims, even British-born muslims, to opt for Pakistan over England. Some here will know exactly what I'm talking about. It's a question, breathe.

[Banu_Hashim]

my brain and heart belong inside my body and I take them both wherever I go!

:thumbs_up

[Banu_Hashim]

Why did I choose Pakistan? Because in the UK it's in the norm for muslims, even British-born muslims, to opt for Pakistan over England. Some here will know exactly what I'm talking about. It's a question, breathe.

Hold on there. I'm a British born Muslim and I hold no allegiance to Pakistan whatsoever. Maybe where you live most of the Muslims are pakistani, but that doesn't go for everywhere. Don't generalise please.

[جوري]

Why did I choose Pakistan? Because in the UK it's in the norm for muslims, even British-born muslims, to opt for Pakistan over England. Some here will know exactly what I'm talking about. It's a question, breathe.

I think what I have written prior sums up my loyalties without the need for superfluous or extraneous talk.. I am breathing at a rate of 12-16 a min.. thanks for your concern

[aadil77]

I suffer from home sickness to :) I can't stay out of this country for a day longer than 2 weeks. Even in Florida I was looking forward to coming back to Britain after 2 weeks. It's natural.
To be quite honest with you I don't think I could live anywhere else...!

Yeh same here because its what you call home, even though the weather nd everythin is depressin on the way back its still the climate I like and can tolerate nd actually chill in!

[Blackpool]

Hold on there. I'm a British born Muslim and I hold no allegiance to Pakistan whatsoever. Maybe where you live most of the Muslims are pakistani, but that doesn't go for everywhere. Don't generalise please.

There are no muslims where I live. There are a huge amount of muslims, British born too, that opt for Pakistan over England. One example is in cricket...

This is perhaps my last post in this thread now.

[جوري]

:thumbs_up

Jazaka Allah khyran.. I don't see how choosing england or pakistan applies to me or any random Muslim under any circumstance? .. this is what we call psychopathological loose association-- 'Muslim' that must mean immigrant and to no other than wonderful england dressed in a tent with loyalty to pakistan and probably harboring a bomb somewhere. :lol:

[Ar-RaYYan]

Hold on there. I'm a British born Muslim and I hold no allegiance to Pakistan whatsoever. Maybe where you live most of the Muslims are pakistani, but that doesn't go for everywhere. Don't generalise please.

yeah i agree :thumbs_up
Dont make this assumption that all British born Muslims hold allegiance to their country of origin

[Blackpool]

Yeh same here because its what you call home, even though the weather nd everythin is depressin on the way back its still the climate I like and can tolerate nd actually chill in!

I won't moan about the climate. It can be a pain but unlike Florida, a holiday makers dream, and places in Asia, Australia, South America, North America, we don't get devastating earth quakes, hurricanes, severe lightning storms, bush fires.

[GuestFellow]

There are no muslims where I live. There are a huge amount of muslims, British born too, that opt for Pakistan over England. One example is in cricket...

This is perhaps my last post in this thread now.

Actually I would opt England over Pakistan. :/

[Banu_Hashim]

^Lol. Exactly... How is 'Muslim' synonymous with 'immigrant'.

Because in the UK it's in the norm for muslims, even British-born muslims, to opt for Pakistan over England. Some here will know exactly what I'm talking about. It's a question, breathe.

Even British born Muslims ? Really? Wow. They must be so hard to come by... :rollseyes

[barrio79]

pakistan? why in the world that country out of all others? or did you assume me Pakistani? I was actually born in Tanzania to non-Tanzanian parents, lived there for about 40 days so I have no memories. My father a former diplomat (now retired) took us (his family) just about every where from london, to Holland, to Turkey, to Egypt, to Saudi Arabia, to the U.S and everything you can think of in between. So the answer to spare you further assumptions as to my identity is NO, I have no loyalty to any place, my loyalty is to doing good when I can by the means that God has bestowed upon me, which I have utalized through hard work and study!
my brain and heart belong inside my body and I take them both wherever I go!

all the best

As Goss says one can easily travel the world now , Many people seek to enter Great Britain both legally and illegally as they have heard that it is the place to go to obtain freedom and economic independence and friendly government assistance.
If however when you get there you find that this is a wrong set of assumptions then proceed further to a more friendly accepting community eg Malaysia and Indonesia have good climate are economically stable and welcome their fellow travellers .

So why stay in Great Britain which some posters say has too many Brits , cold weather, and an unwelcoming community when there are so many welcoming countries elsewhere

[جوري]

As Goss says one can easily travel the world now , Many people seek to enter Great Britain both legally and illegally as they have heard that it is the place to go to obtain freedom and economic independence and friendly government assistance.
If however when you get there you find that this is a wrong set of assumptions then proceed further to a more friendly accepting community eg Malaysia and Indonesia have good climate are economically stable and welcome their fellow travellers .

So why stay in Great Britain which some posters say has too many Brits , cold weather, and an unwelcoming community when there are so many welcoming countries elsewhere

Good question indeed borborygmi.. I can't imagine anyone willingly consciously and freely living in the mildew country but, I'd actually favor that a few burly & questionable folks from each place that was once under colonization and subjected to thievery from said country to have at it and its private civillians.. in fact I encourage it-- I am a strong believer in eye for an eye!
I rather think England should be divided up between India, Hong Kong, China, Africa and the middle east.. meh will through the U.S too since they have recently celebrated their independance from the colonial state .. and perhaps your tootin' queen can start by handing properties stolen in the 13th Century to its rightful owners ey?

all the best

[barrio79]

Good question indeed borborygmi.. I can't imagine anyone willingly consciously and freely living in the mildew country but, I'd actually favor that a few burly & questionable folks from each place that was once under colonization and subjected to thievery from said country to have at it and its private civillians.. in fact I encourage it-- I am a strong believer in eye for an eye!
I rather think England should be divided up between India, Hong Kong, China, Africa and the middle east.. meh will through the U.S too since they have recently celebrated their independance from the colonial state .. and perhaps your tootin' queen can start by handing properties stolen in the 13th Century to its rightful owners ey?

all the best

Well thanks for the compliments ,1. in agreeing that leaving that mildew country would be a sensible proposition and 2.for the epithet borborygmi which I have just found out is aboriginal for " esteemed member of the Bora Ring "

[جوري]

Well thanks for the compliments ,1. in agreeing that leaving that mildew country would be a sensible proposition and 2.for the epithet borborygmi which I have just found out is aboriginal for " esteemed member of the Bora Ring "

you must have some sort of comprehension and or reading impediment borborygmi? since I don't live in your mildew country, I rather think that it is something for its own private citizens to decide? and secondly borborygmi is a loud grumbling sound that may be mistook for a serious disease but is actually a rather harmless manifestation that related to flatulence :D
I thought it really befitting of you as an hypocorism!

all the best

[barrio79]

you must have some sort of comprehension and or reading impediment borborygmi? since I don't live in your mildew country, I rather think that it is something for its own private citizens to decide? and secondly borborygmi is a loud grumbling sound that may be mistook for a serious disease but is actually a rather harmless manifestation that related to flatulence :D
I thought it really befitting of you as an hypocorism!

all the best

I thought you were agreeing that those unfortunate souls who moved to Great Britain should seek out a better place once they discover what an unpleasant cold mildewy unwelcoming place that it is . As you pointed out it is so easy to move to another country nowadays , so no one should be under any disadvantage by moving on.

thanks for the other lesson but think i will go with my aboriginal friends interpretation on this occasion

[جوري]

I thought you were agreeing that those unfortunate souls who moved to Great Britain should seek out a better place once they discover what an unpleasant cold mildewy unwelcoming place that it is . As you pointed out it is so easy to move to another country nowadays , so no one should be under any disadvantage by moving on.

thanks for the other lesson but think i will go with my aboriginal friends interpretation on this occasion

I rather think I called everyone for a chunky sum to be divided amongst its previous victims.. nonetheless you seem to have some focal neurological deficits that are interfering with how you process information?....

in closure, since I bestowed upon you the title of Borborygmus we'll of course go by my chosen and widely accepted definition which I rather think is more befitting of you effective immediately without the need for a license!

now take a hike as I have some work to do and can't stand the sound of my mail box dinging with news stupidity!

[Zafran]

Most of the immigrants of the 60s were needed anyway for the UK economy. Frankly most immigrants were poverty stricken people - to do the jobs that people didnt want to do.

[جوري]

Most of the immigrants of the 60s were needed anyway for the UK economy. Frankly the most pverty stricken people immigrated - to do the jobs that people didnt want to do.

You don't have to explain other people's actions to this simp.
if he doesn't like it, he can go protest his grievances along side the other racialists where they get drunk and rowdy and eventually hauled to the nearest hospital to be taken care of by folks they profess superiority to!

:w:

[Zafran]

You don't have to explain other people's actions to this simp.
if he doesn't like it, he can go protest his grievances along side the other racialists where they get drunk and rowdy and eventually hauled to the nearest hospital to be taken care of by folks they profess superiority to!

:w:

yeah I find it odd how people are so ignorant of immigration - especially in the uk - 60s when there was a need for them - otherwise so many people wouldnt have been allowed to come.

[adam11]

Wow! The topic exploded!

There were some concerns earlier that this wouldn't be happening. That's not very nice! Have more faith in us!
First of all there are now four organisations backing the counter-demonstration:
Love Music Hate Racism
Unite
Muslim Council of Britain
British Muslim Initiative

The demonstration WILL happen. And I have been getting involved with planning, and hopefully it will get media coverage (at least from PressTV).

And as for mass prayer, people are working very hard to promote the idea to people attending and in the above four organisations and are tipping off media workers about it as well.

Someone asked if it would be Dhuhr. I doubt it, if anything it will either be Asr or not a compulsory one at all. The demonstration will assemble at 5pm (an hour before the football firmers arrive) in the city centre (the corner of New St and the High St).

[Blackpool]

There is a MASSIVE difference between the 1960s and the year 2009.

[adam11]

There is a MASSIVE difference between the 1960s and the year 2009.

How do you mean?

[Blackpool]

How do you mean?

In the 1960s Britain needed more workforce and therefore looked to the immigrants. In 2009, we have MORE than enough. Britain is full and needs to deport hundreds of thousands of immigrants. The first to be deported should be those that came here and are not contributing to it.

[adam11]

In the 1960s Britain needed more workforce and therefore looked to the immigrants. In 2009, we have MORE than enough. Britain is full and needs to deport hundreds of thousands of immigrants. The first to be deported should be those that came here and are not contributing to it.

Why? How are immigrants and British born sons and daughters of immigrants (like myself - half spanish half irish) causing the UK problems?
And who are these immigrants that you're on about?

It seems to me you want to chuck the Africans, Indians and Pakistanis out but not the South Africans, Australians, New Zealanders and North Americans?
This despite the fact that the latter bunch are more likely to have jobs and the former bunch are more likely to be unemployed.

The people (in general) are not the problem, the government and economic system are the problem.

[Raaina]

Hold on,

He didn't say anything about chucking out Africans, Indians and Pakistanis, where did you get this idea from?

The last influx of immigrants into this country were the Polish and I believe they are leaving now because there is no work here.

[adam11]

Hold on,

He didn't say anything about chucking out Africans, Indians and Pakistanis, where did you get this idea from?

The last influx of immigrants into this country were the Polish and I believe they are leaving now because there is no work here.

Cos he brought up the 1960's when we had Africans, Indians and Pakistanis coming in.

[Blackpool]

It seems to me you want to chuck the Africans, Indians and Pakistanis out but not the South Africans, Australians, New Zealanders and North Americans?
This despite the fact that the latter bunch are more likely to have jobs and the former bunch are more likely to be unemployed.

If they're unemployed then yes they should all be deported as they're not contributing to this country. Jobs should go to the British first and if we need to look overseas (EU before non-EU states) to fill the gaps then fair enough but ONLY to fill the gaps in our working industry, nothing more.

[barrio79]

There is a MASSIVE difference between the 1960s and the year 2009.

OK lets get back on topic - there were these protests in Birmingham.
Who did the protesting , who were their backers what was their motivation
What did they achieve .

Did normal people support them or ignore them

[Raaina]

ooooh

I'm sure they weren't the only immigrants at that time :)

[barrio79]

Don't feed the troll!

Is troll a nice name

[Blackpool]

I mentioned nothing of race.

[adam11]

If they're unemployed then yes they should all be deported as they're not contributing to this country. Jobs should go to the British first and if we need to look overseas (EU before non-EU states) to fill the gaps then fair enough but ONLY to fill the gaps in our working industry, nothing more.

What of my autistic sister then? She was born of foreign parents in the UK, doesn't belong in any other country and probably wont be getting a job if her condition doesn't improve. Where are you gonna send her?

You need to get a sense of humanity.

I thought this was the Islamic Board, what the hell is going on?!

We were on about racist protests and then people start talking about immigration, presumably to try and justify it.

Uhhh. I'm leaving this forum. I can't be arsed with this.

[Raaina]

I think you are reading far to much into this.

[Banu_Hashim]

If they're unemployed then yes they should all be deported as they're not contributing to this country. Jobs should go to the British first and if we need to look overseas (EU before non-EU states) to fill the gaps then fair enough but ONLY to fill the gaps in our working industry, nothing more.

Why are you still assuming Africans, Indians, Pakistanis (basically all ethnic minorities) do not have British passports and are not citizens today.

The NHS would not have survived in the 1960's if it had not been for Indian doctors. This is besides the point. I think this thread should be closed. We've wasted enough time bating on useless things.

Fe Amaanillah.

[Blackpool]

What of my autistic sister then? She was born of foreign parents in the UK, doesn't belong in any other country and probably wont be getting a job if her condition doesn't improve. Where are you gonna send her?

You need to get a sense of humanity.

I thought this was the Islamic Board, what the hell is going on?!

We were on about racist protests and then people start talking about immigration, presumably to try and justify it.

Uhhh. I'm leaving this forum. I can't be arsed with this.

If she's British born then shes fine. But if her parents aren't British born and are aren't working then they should be forced to work and if they decline then I'm afraid to say they should be deported from the UK as they are refusing to contribute. I don't agree with British tax payers paying for migrants' benefits. This is all just common sense.

[Raaina]

You know, Banu_Hashim is right, this is kind of off topic.

[O2K]

There is a fundemental problem with deporting all immigrants who do not work. For one, when immigrants come to a new county, many times they bring family or they start families to the country they immigrate to. What this does is actually strengthen the population. By simply deporting those who do not, or simply can not work or find work, you are putting limitations on the progress of a nation. For when the nation working class gets older, and are no longer able to work or are limited to a certain time of work, the younger generation will start to be scarce, then the nation will once again turn to immigrants to revamp the working class. Deporting non-working immigrants is simply not a logical solution and is an easy cop out. What would be a more intelligent thing is adding more immigration laws and making it stricter for new immigrants.

But simply deporting non-working immigrants is a falacious idea and aside from the problems listed above it is a form of alienation. Terrible idea. This is one of those "back to the drawing board" ideas.

[Clover]

Well, as long as their are people, their will be protests. O well. If they want to spend their day walking around with posters/signs, power to them, I'd prefer to workout lol.

[Pygoscelis]

These anti-muslim extremists have it in their minds that muslims are violent and terrorists. So to counter that, you are encouraging muslims to stockpile arms and go out and "defend themselves".

You don't see a circle here?

[AntiKarateKid]

These anti-muslim extremists have it in their minds that muslims are violent and terrorists. So to counter that, you are encouraging muslims to stockpile arms and go out and "defend themselves".

You don't see a circle here?

I agree, actually. I used to think that we needed to rise against the governments that abuse Muslims but this post changed my mind.

http://www.islamicboard.com/manners-...ng-fitnah.html

Our situation is caused by our failures and is a punishment from Allah. We need to come together as an Ummah and start BEING Muslims. We need to refute the sellout "liberal" Muslims and oppose the violent "extremist" ones. How can we ask for justice if we ourselves are not embodying the Quran and Allah's justice?

[Omari]

Jazakallah for posting

[Banu_Hashim]

We need to come together as an Ummah and start BEING Muslims. We need to refute the sellout "liberal" Muslims and oppose the violent "extremist" ones.

Couldn't agree more. Islam is all about moderation! End of story.

[Muezzin]

These anti-muslim extremists have it in their minds that muslims are violent and terrorists. So to counter that, you are encouraging muslims to stockpile arms and go out and "defend themselves".

You don't see a circle here?

You may have missed this post:

assalamu alaykom brothers and sisters,

I assume you've heard of this counter-protest:
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=9991532179

I have spoken to many Muslim youth. A group of them are planning to come in England shirts and shout ENGLAND ENGLAND back at the fascists, and then do a mass prayer right in front of them. There will most likely be a white British Muslim revert leading them on the megaphone.

I ask all those who will be in the Birmingham counter-protest to allow them the space to perform this mass prayer. It will be symbolic if the media are watching. The Muslim youth of the city of Birmingham, praying to Allah in the face of racist chants and abuse coming from behind the police lines.

They have said that they are against fanatics like Anjem Choudary and HizbuTahrir, if any of them are seen they will be ejected from the anti-fascist protest. Because these characters are used effectively by the fascists as strawmen, and have so far handed them this confrontation on a plate.

They have also said that whilst they are aware that the 500+ thugs on their way to the city centre are looking for a violent confrontation, they are not going to make it easy for them to have it. They want to show restraint.

Promising stuff!

Why did I choose Pakistan? Because in the UK it's in the norm for muslims, even British-born muslims, to opt for Pakistan over England.

What, like in cricket?