PDA

View Full Version : Why do we insist on putting a crescent on everything?



AntiKarateKid
07-14-2009, 09:28 PM
It really bugs me. Hek my prayer mat has crescents on it. Wth? We know Islam has no symbol so what gives?
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
aadil77
07-15-2009, 08:10 PM
Everyone just wants things to be symbolized, to be known by somethin
Reply

Pk_#2
07-15-2009, 08:19 PM
Well I remember my Urdu teacher saying that all the countries with flags that have a moon and a star are 'Islamic' countries,

I knew it was bull...

It's really stupid man,

But I kinda like crescents.. Pakistan Zindabad!! :p

But stars...no waiiiiiiii
Reply

Brasco
07-15-2009, 08:27 PM
There is / (should be) only one thing to be known that we're muslims: la ilaha illa llah muhammadun rasulu'llah!! :) I guess it is becuase of the osmanic empire, or the another thing is:

Cercent marks the month of Ramadan which the Qur'an was revealed :D
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
Abdul Fattah
07-15-2009, 08:34 PM
Tafsir ibn kathir:
The Children of Israel safely cross the Sea, but still held on to the Idea of Idol Worshipping

Allah mentions the words that the ignorant ones among the Children of Israel uttered to Musa after they crossed the sea and witnessed Allah's Ayat and great power.

[فَأَتَوْاْ عَلَى قَوْمٍ يَعْكُفُونَ عَلَى أَصْنَامٍ لَّهُمْ]

(And they came upon a people devoted to some of their idols (in worship).) Some scholars of Tafsir said that the people mentioned here were from Canaan, or from the tribe of Lakhm. Ibn Jarir commented, "They were worshipping idols that they made in the shape of cows, and this influenced the Children of Israel later when they worshipped the calf. They said here,

[يَمُوسَى اجْعَلْ لَّنَآ إِلَـهًا كَمَا لَهُمْ ءَالِهَةٌ قَالَ إِنَّكُمْ قَوْمٌ تَجْهَلُونَ]

("O Musa! Make for us a god as they have gods.'' He said: "Verily, you are an ignorant people.'') Musa replied, you are ignorant of Allah's greatness and majesty and His purity from any partners or anything resembling Him.

[إِنَّ هَـؤُلاءِ مُتَبَّرٌ مَّا هُمْ فِيهِ]

("Verily, these people will be destroyed for that which they are engaged in) they will perish,

[وَبَطَلَ مَا كَانُواْ يَعْمَلُونَ]

("and all that they are doing is in vain.'') Commenting on this Ayah, Imam Abu Ja`far bin Jarir reported from Abu Waqid Al-Laythi that they (the Companions) went out from Makkah with the Messenger of Allah for (the battle of) Hunayn. Abu Waqid said, "Some of the disbelievers had a lote tree whose vicinity they used to remain in, and upon which they would hang their weapons on. That tree was called `Dhat Al-Anwat'. So when we passed by a huge, green lote tree, we said, `O Messenger of Allah! Appoint for us a Dhat Al-Anwat as they have.' He said,

«قُلْتُمْ وَالَّذِي نَفْسِي بِيَدِهِ كَمَا قَالَ قَوْمُ مُوسَى لِمُوسَى:

(by He in Whose Hand is my soul! You said just as what the people of Musa said to him:

[اجْعَلْ لَّنَآ إِلَـهًا كَمَا لَهُمْ ءَالِهَةٌ قَالَ إِنَّكُمْ قَوْمٌ تَجْهَلُونَ]

إِنَّ هَـؤُلآء مُتَبَّرٌ مَّا هُمْ فِيهِ وَبَـطِلٌ مَّا كَانُواْ يَعْمَلُونَ-]

( ("Make for us a god as they have gods.'' He said: "Verily, you are an ignorant people. Verily, these people will be destroyed for that which they are engaged in, and all that they are doing is in vain.''))''
Reply

GuestFellow
07-15-2009, 08:39 PM
Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
It really bugs me. Hek my prayer mat has crescents on it. Wth? We know Islam has no symbol so what gives?
The crescent on your prayer mat should not really bother you. You should be concentrating on praying to Allah and not to focus on any distractions...or just get another prayer mat! :)
Reply

AntiKarateKid
07-15-2009, 11:19 PM
Originally Posted by Abdul Fattah
Tafsir ibn kathir:
The Children of Israel safely cross the Sea, but still held on to the Idea of Idol Worshipping

Allah mentions the words that the ignorant ones among the Children of Israel uttered to Musa after they crossed the sea and witnessed Allah's Ayat and great power.

[فَأَتَوْاْ عَلَى قَوْمٍ يَعْكُفُونَ عَلَى أَصْنَامٍ لَّهُمْ]

(And they came upon a people devoted to some of their idols (in worship).) Some scholars of Tafsir said that the people mentioned here were from Canaan, or from the tribe of Lakhm. Ibn Jarir commented, "They were worshipping idols that they made in the shape of cows, and this influenced the Children of Israel later when they worshipped the calf. They said here,

[يَمُوسَى اجْعَلْ لَّنَآ إِلَـهًا كَمَا لَهُمْ ءَالِهَةٌ قَالَ إِنَّكُمْ قَوْمٌ تَجْهَلُونَ]

("O Musa! Make for us a god as they have gods.'' He said: "Verily, you are an ignorant people.'') Musa replied, you are ignorant of Allah's greatness and majesty and His purity from any partners or anything resembling Him.

[إِنَّ هَـؤُلاءِ مُتَبَّرٌ مَّا هُمْ فِيهِ]

("Verily, these people will be destroyed for that which they are engaged in) they will perish,

[وَبَطَلَ مَا كَانُواْ يَعْمَلُونَ]

("and all that they are doing is in vain.'') Commenting on this Ayah, Imam Abu Ja`far bin Jarir reported from Abu Waqid Al-Laythi that they (the Companions) went out from Makkah with the Messenger of Allah for (the battle of) Hunayn. Abu Waqid said, "Some of the disbelievers had a lote tree whose vicinity they used to remain in, and upon which they would hang their weapons on. That tree was called `Dhat Al-Anwat'. So when we passed by a huge, green lote tree, we said, `O Messenger of Allah! Appoint for us a Dhat Al-Anwat as they have.' He said,

«قُلْتُمْ وَالَّذِي نَفْسِي بِيَدِهِ كَمَا قَالَ قَوْمُ مُوسَى لِمُوسَى:

(by He in Whose Hand is my soul! You said just as what the people of Musa said to him:

[اجْعَلْ لَّنَآ إِلَـهًا كَمَا لَهُمْ ءَالِهَةٌ قَالَ إِنَّكُمْ قَوْمٌ تَجْهَلُونَ]

إِنَّ هَـؤُلآء مُتَبَّرٌ مَّا هُمْ فِيهِ وَبَـطِلٌ مَّا كَانُواْ يَعْمَلُونَ-]

( ("Make for us a god as they have gods.'' He said: "Verily, you are an ignorant people. Verily, these people will be destroyed for that which they are engaged in, and all that they are doing is in vain.''))''
Are you saying it is comparable to idol worship?
Reply

StudentMuslim
07-18-2009, 04:44 AM
This is something that bugs me too, I mean the crescent thing. I was talking to a Non-Muslim friend he said it represents the Pagan Arab Mon God, Hubul, and this tradition crept in to Islam somehow after the death of prophet, because yeah people like symbols.
Reply

Imam
07-18-2009, 10:26 AM
Originally Posted by StudentMuslim
This is something that bugs me too,
There is nothing to bug you about it at all

here is the story of such symbol in brief:


The early Muslim community did not really have a symbol. During the time of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), Islamic armies and caravans flew simple solid-colored flags (generally black, green, or white) for identification purposes. In later generations, the Muslim leaders continued to use a simple black, white, or green flag with no markings, writing, or symbolism on it.

It wasn't until the Ottoman Empire that the crescent moon and star became affiliated with the Muslim world. When the Turks conquered Constantinople (Istanbul) in 1453, they adopted the city's existing flag and symbol. Legend holds that the founder of the Ottoman Empire, Osman, had a dream in which the crescent moon stretched from one end of the earth to the other. Taking this as a good omen, he chose to keep the crescent and make it the symbol of his dynasty. There is speculation that the five points on the star represent the five pillars of Islam, but this is pure conjecture. The five points were not standard on the Ottoman flags, and as you will see on the following page, it is still not standard on flags used in the Muslim world today.

For hundreds of years, the Ottoman Empire ruled over the Muslim world. After centuries of battle with Christian Europe, it is understandable how the symbols of this empire became linked in people's minds with the faith of Islam as a whole.

The faith of Islam has historically had no symbol. It is certainly not in uniform use among Muslims.

This leads to the question of alternatives. What other "symbol" represents the faith? Is it necessary to even have a symbol? .
Reply

StudentMuslim
07-18-2009, 07:59 PM
Thank you brother for this research. I am sure it has answered my doubts. I am sure a lot of other people would benefit from it too.
Reply

Abdul Fattah
07-18-2009, 08:04 PM
Selam aleykum
Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
Are you saying it is comparable to idol worship?
I prefer not making such statements. It is however obvious that there 's a similarity.
People from other religions introduced idolism in their religion, and some muslims had the same desire.
People from other religions invented symbols to refer to their religion, and some muslims wanted a symbol for their religion to.
Like I said, I'm not going to say that the crescent is a form of idol worship.
Reply

Beardo
07-19-2009, 02:49 AM
I remember in school, we were studying religions... Every religion had a symbol, and the symbol for Islam was a crescent. I didn't like that, because it's not true. And I find that crescent to be more cultural, because of Pakistan. Don't get me wrong, I love Pakistan and Pakistani Muslims (and their food. Chicken Tikka Masala All the way!) but... where'd the crscent come from?

But, it shouldn't be a big issue. We have bigger issues to worry about. so many of our Muslim brothers and sisters are not praying, how can we be worried about a crescent? If a crescent moon is to represent Islam, then so be it. It's not like someone will judge Islam based off the symbol given today. We will be based off our personality and how we are judged in society. Are we known for helping others and smiling at everyone? Or are we known for being the ones that are kept to themselves and hide in the corner, unsocially?


:skeleton::skeleton::skeleton:

Think about it.
Reply

alcurad
07-19-2009, 03:58 AM
^ditto.

though why the particular example of staying in corners or smiling :)?


a symbol is abstracted form/s used to convey meaning, as such symbols are just like the letters of languages, more compact in a a sense.
nothing wrong with it at that, until people attach additional meaning/s to it. and that happens as with every language/tool humans use, evolution is the word here, and it's not too bad, today a crescent, tomorrow a crab apple, the important thing is we shouldn't worry about it too much, otherwise we are doing what's not supposed to happen in the first place: attaching too much importance to symbols, almost turning them into idols.

but of course that's not really idolization, in the end it's a symbol that has come to represent us for many, as long as people realize it's not a religiously required matter, I believe it's fine to use whatever symbol is there, provided aesthetic design, and the Crescent fits to a T. I think :/
Reply

syilla
07-20-2009, 08:40 AM
it must be hard to design a prayer mat...huhu
Reply

alcurad
07-20-2009, 10:21 AM
hm, not really, unless you're doing it by hand...
Reply

Snowflake
07-21-2009, 02:19 PM
I know what you mean bro. A local mosque here has crescents all along its fence lol :D

As for prayer mats, get a plain one. It makes such a difference.
Reply

piXie
07-21-2009, 02:35 PM
Originally Posted by Scents of Jannah
As for prayer mats, get a plain one. It makes such a difference.
almost a miracle to find a plain one these days. Do they even exist ?
Reply

- IqRa -
07-21-2009, 03:00 PM
Whats wrong with a crescent on a prayer mat? Would you rather it had a picture of someone?
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
07-21-2009, 05:39 PM
I have a prayer mat and its jus designs on it...geometric shapes. I've never closely examined my prayer mat...i know the buildin shape in it...but nothin else.
Reply

Caller الداعي
07-21-2009, 07:30 PM
salams i think we shud remebr the cresent sightng plays a big role in islam Allag says: they ask u abt the cresents! Say they r appointd times for the ppl and for hajj !
Reply

Tony
07-21-2009, 07:53 PM
According to Dr Zakir Naik the crescent symbolises sereniy, in the days of Rasulullah peace and blessings be upon him, the days were so harsh and scorched by the sun, that the opposite coolness of the night provided serenity, and as such Islam adopted the crescent:D
Reply

Caller الداعي
07-21-2009, 07:54 PM
salams i think we shud remebr the cresent sightng plays a big role in islam Allag says: they ask u abt the cresents! Say they r appointd times for the ppl and for hajj !
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
07-21-2009, 09:46 PM
^^Why is ur post repeated lol.
According to Dr Zakir Naik the crescent symbolises sereniy, in the days of Rasulullah peace and blessings be upon him, the days were so harsh and scorched by the sun, that the opposite coolness of the night provided serenity, and as such Islam adopted the crescent:D
Interesting.
Reply

Snowflake
07-21-2009, 10:13 PM
Originally Posted by piXie
almost a miracle to find a plain one these days. Do they even exist ?
Miracles do happen. Wait a month or so inshaAllah :statisfie
Reply

Ubeyde
04-14-2011, 07:50 PM
Asalamualaykum Wa Rahmatuallahi wa barakatu

The creasent was really put into place after the World Wars- after Attaturk took over Turkey and got rid of the Khalifat- he insisted to put Creasents on everything... Before the Wars, there were no creasents, not even on Mosques... Our greatest enemies use it as a logo and we should never have adopted it..
Reply

Futuwwa
06-19-2011, 03:27 PM
Originally Posted by Tony
According to Dr Zakir Naik the crescent symbolises sereniy, in the days of Rasulullah peace and blessings be upon him, the days were so harsh and scorched by the sun, that the opposite coolness of the night provided serenity, and as such Islam adopted the crescent:D
I'd like to know his source for this. I haven't seen any clear evidence for the crescent being a symbol of Islam before Ottoman times.
Reply

JOHNJOHN
07-14-2011, 10:06 AM
Originally Posted by Futuwwa
I'd like to know his source for this. I haven't seen any clear evidence for the crescent being a symbol of Islam before Ottoman times.

Peace


Why during the month of Ramadan Muslims they fasten following the Moon Celendar ?

Why muslim when they see the full moon they pray a special prayer ?
Reply

Futuwwa
07-17-2011, 12:11 AM
Because God decreed that we should use the sun and moon for timekeeping.
Reply

JOHNJOHN
07-18-2011, 07:07 PM
Originally Posted by Futuwwa
Because God decreed that we should use the sun and moon for timekeeping.


Peace Futuwwa


Thank you for the anwser

Can you tell me why muslim when they see the full moon they pray a special prayer ?


Peace.
Reply

JOHNJOHN
07-19-2011, 08:05 PM
Peace


Why muslims they have the prayer of ( Salat Al Koussouf ) = Prayer of the eclipse ?



Peace
Reply

Innocent Soul
07-22-2011, 12:16 PM
^Brother you should start another thread thread for such questions. I think this ahadith will be the answer to your question:

Narrated Abu Musa: The sun eclipsed and the Prophet got up, being afraid that it might be the Hour (i.e. Day of Judgment). He went to the Mosque and offered the prayer with the longest Qiyam, bowing and prostration that I had ever seen him doing. Then he said, "These signs which Allah sends do not occur because of the life or death of somebody, but Allah makes His worshipers afraid by them. So when you see anything thereof, proceed to remember Allah, invoke Him and ask for His forgiveness."(Sahih Bukhari: Book #18, Hadith #167)

Narrated Abu Bakra: Allah's Apostle said: "The sun and the moon are two signs amongst the signs of Allah and they do not eclipse because of the death of someone but Allah frightens His devotees with them." (Sahih Bukhari: Book #18, Hadith #158)

Narrated Abu Bakra: The solar eclipse occurred while we were sitting with the Prophet He got up dragging his garment (on the ground) hurriedly till he reached the mosque The people turned (to the mosque) and he offered a two-Rak'at prayer whereupon the eclipse was over and he traced us and said, "The sun and the moon are two signs among the signs of Allah, so if you see a thing like this (eclipse) then offer the prayer and invoke Allah till He remove that state," (Sahih Bukhari: Book #72, Hadith #676)
Reply

JOHNJOHN
07-24-2011, 07:51 PM
Originally Posted by Innocent Soul
^Brother you should start another thread thread for such questions. I think this ahadith will be the answer to your question:

Narrated Abu Musa: The sun eclipsed and the Prophet got up, being afraid that it might be the Hour (i.e. Day of Judgment). He went to the Mosque and offered the prayer with the longest Qiyam, bowing and prostration that I had ever seen him doing. Then he said, "These signs which Allah sends do not occur because of the life or death of somebody, but Allah makes His worshipers afraid by them. So when you see anything thereof, proceed to remember Allah, invoke Him and ask for His forgiveness."(Sahih Bukhari: Book #18, Hadith #167)

Narrated Abu Bakra: Allah's Apostle said: "The sun and the moon are two signs amongst the signs of Allah and they do not eclipse because of the death of someone but Allah frightens His devotees with them." (Sahih Bukhari: Book #18, Hadith #158)

Narrated Abu Bakra: The solar eclipse occurred while we were sitting with the Prophet He got up dragging his garment (on the ground) hurriedly till he reached the mosque The people turned (to the mosque) and he offered a two-Rak'at prayer whereupon the eclipse was over and he traced us and said, "The sun and the moon are two signs among the signs of Allah, so if you see a thing like this (eclipse) then offer the prayer and invoke Allah till He remove that state," (Sahih Bukhari: Book #72, Hadith #676)

Peace Innocent Soul


Thank you for the ahadeeths, for me they are very strange and they show the prophete Mohamed praying a special prayer when he saw the sun eclispe and did not pray Allah.

You are right we have to open a new thread about Islam and the relation with the Sabeen religion.

I can not open a thread because I am not authorized.


Peace.:D
Reply

Innocent Soul
07-26-2011, 03:24 PM
^ You just reminded me of a chapter in Holy Quran.

Surat Al-Kāfirūn (The Disbelievers)

109:1 Say, "O disbelievers,
109:2 I do not worship what you worship.
109:3 Nor are you worshipers of what I worship.
109:4 Nor will I be a worshiper of what you worship.
109:5 Nor will you be worshipers of what I worship.
109:6 For you is your religion, and for me is my religion."

No offense intended.
Reply

JOHNJOHN
07-27-2011, 07:29 PM
Dear Sister Innocent soul


You brought those ahaadeths :



Narrated Abu Musa: The sun eclipsed and the Prophet got up, being afraid that it might be the Hour (i.e. Day of Judgment). He went to the Mosque and offered the prayer with the longest Qiyam, bowing and prostration that I had ever seen him doing. Then he said, "These signs which Allah sends do not occur because of the life or death of somebody, but Allah makes His worshipers afraid by them. So when you see anything thereof, proceed to remember Allah, invoke Him and ask for His forgiveness."(Sahih Bukhari: Book #18, Hadith #167)

Narrated Abu Bakra: Allah's Apostle said: "The sun and the moon are two signs amongst the signs of Allah and they do not eclipse because of the death of someone but Allah frightens His devotees with them." (Sahih Bukhari: Book #18, Hadith #158)

Narrated Abu Bakra: The solar eclipse occurred while we were sitting with the Prophet He got up dragging his garment (on the ground) hurriedly till he reached the mosque The people turned (to the mosque) and he offered a two-Rak'at prayer whereupon the eclipse was over and he traced us and said, "The sun and the moon are two signs among the signs of Allah, so if you see a thing like this (eclipse) then offer the prayer and invoke Allah till He remove that state," (Sahih Bukhari: Book #72, Hadith #676)




- The sun eclipsedand the Prophet got up, being afraid that it might be the Hour (i.e. Day of Judgment). He went to the Mosque and offered the prayer with the longest Qiyam, bowing and prostration that I had ever seen him doing


What he see in the ahaadeth, the prophete Mohamed offer the longuest prayer not to Allah but because he saw an eclipse.


Narrated Abu Bakra: The solar eclipse occurred while we were sitting with the Prophet He got up dragging his garment (on the ground) hurriedly till he reached the mosque The people turned (to the mosque) and he offered a two-Rak'at prayer whereupon the eclipse was over and he traced us and said, "The sun and the moon are two signs among the signs of Allah, so if you see a thing like this (eclipse) then offer the prayer and invoke Allah till He remove that state," (Sahih Bukhari: Book #72, Hadith #676)


-
What we see again in the ahaadeth above that the prophete is saying when you see an eclipse offer a prayer for it not to Allah.Do not worry I do not feel offended :p



Peace.
Reply

جوري
07-28-2011, 05:12 PM
Originally Posted by JOHNJOHN
Dear Sister Innocent soul


You brought those ahaadeths :



Narrated Abu Musa: The sun eclipsed and the Prophet got up, being afraid that it might be the Hour (i.e. Day of Judgment). He went to the Mosque and offered the prayer with the longest Qiyam, bowing and prostration that I had ever seen him doing. Then he said, "These signs which Allah sends do not occur because of the life or death of somebody, but Allah makes His worshipers afraid by them. So when you see anything thereof, proceed to remember Allah, invoke Him and ask for His forgiveness."(Sahih Bukhari: Book #18, Hadith #167)

Narrated Abu Bakra: Allah's Apostle said: "The sun and the moon are two signs amongst the signs of Allah and they do not eclipse because of the death of someone but Allah frightens His devotees with them." (Sahih Bukhari: Book #18, Hadith #158)

Narrated Abu Bakra: The solar eclipse occurred while we were sitting with the Prophet He got up dragging his garment (on the ground) hurriedly till he reached the mosque The people turned (to the mosque) and he offered a two-Rak'at prayer whereupon the eclipse was over and he traced us and said, "The sun and the moon are two signs among the signs of Allah, so if you see a thing like this (eclipse) then offer the prayer and invoke Allah till He remove that state," (Sahih Bukhari: Book #72, Hadith #676)




- The sun eclipsedand the Prophet got up, being afraid that it might be the Hour (i.e. Day of Judgment). He went to the Mosque and offered the prayer with the longest Qiyam, bowing and prostration that I had ever seen him doing


What he see in the ahaadeth, the prophete Mohamed offer the longuest prayer not to Allah but because he saw an eclipse.


Narrated Abu Bakra: The solar eclipse occurred while we were sitting with the Prophet He got up dragging his garment (on the ground) hurriedly till he reached the mosque The people turned (to the mosque) and he offered a two-Rak'at prayer whereupon the eclipse was over and he traced us and said, "The sun and the moon are two signs among the signs of Allah, so if you see a thing like this (eclipse) then offer the prayer and invoke Allah till He remove that state," (Sahih Bukhari: Book #72, Hadith #676)


-
What we see again in the ahaadeth above that the prophete is saying when you see an eclipse offer a prayer for it not to Allah.Do not worry I do not feel offended :p



Peace.
how do you figure 'the sun and the moon are two signs from Allah' to mean to pray to something other than Allah?
I suppose that is the same logic employed to turn a man who said 'my father is greater than I' into a God?
;) love that christian logic or lack thereof!

best,
Reply

JOHNJOHN
07-29-2011, 06:18 PM
Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ

how do you figure 'the sun and the moon are two signs from Allah' to mean to pray to something other than Allah?
I suppose that is the same logic employed to turn a man who said 'my father is greater than I' into a God?
;) love that christian logic or lack thereof!

best,


Peace Sister


In the Quran Allah says that :

41:37 Among His Signs are the Night and the Day, and the Sun and the Moon. Adore not the sun and the moon, but adore Allah, Who created them, if it is Him ye wish to serve.


In the ahaadeths above we have :

- The prophete Mohamed
- The eclipse

He prayed not because it was time of the prayer and he did not pray Allah but because he saw an eclipse ( Sun and moon)


Peace
Reply

جوري
07-31-2011, 02:38 AM
Originally Posted by JOHNJOHN
Peace Sister


In the Quran Allah says that :

41:37 Among His Signs are the Night and the Day, and the Sun and the Moon. Adore not the sun and the moon, but adore Allah, Who created them, if it is Him ye wish to serve.


In the ahaadeths above we have :

- The prophete Mohamed
- The eclipse

He prayed not because it was time of the prayer and he did not pray Allah but because he saw an eclipse ( Sun and moon)


Peace
I am not your sister 'John John' I am no sister to man worshiping paganists..
we offer prayers for many things John John, they're all to God, we can offer the obligatory prayers, we offer prayer when we want rain, we offer nawafil, we offer taraweeh, we offer istikhara, we offer salaat al hajja, we offer for gratitude, we offer for a desire to remove an affliction .. all of them are to God though for different purposes.. the hadith speaks of prayer for Allah to remove an affliction.. I am not sure which part of that was hard for you to understand?

we don't have to pray because it is time to pray except in two conditions that I can think of.. any time we can offer any prayer, so long as we fulfill the obligatory ones, there is no limit on how much we can pray and for multiple purposes!

best
Reply

True-blue
07-31-2011, 07:41 AM
Originally Posted by JOHNJOHN
Peace Sister


He prayed not because it was time of the prayer and he did not pray Allah but because he saw an eclipse ( Sun and moon)


Peace
What a stupid assertion! Every prayer in Islam is directed to Allah ALONE. No where does the Hadith say that the Prophet (PBUH) was praying to somebody else. The Prophet was praying a special prayer to ALLAH as he saw a phenomena of Almighty Allah that is the eclipse. To say that prayer, He went to Mosque and offered two rakat salah. The very Salat is started by pronouncing loudly 'ALLAHU AKBAR' that is God is the greatest. Moreover,(Sahih Bukhari: Book #72, Hadith #676) confirms that He was praying to ALLAH alone. Look at the underlined text below.

Narrated Abu Bakra: The solar eclipse occurred while we were sitting with the Prophet He got up dragging his garment (on the ground) hurriedly till he reached the mosque The people turned (to the mosque) and he offered a two-Rak'at prayer whereupon the eclipse was over and he traced us and said, "The sun and the moon are two signs among the signs of Allah, so if you see a thing like this (eclipse) then offer the prayer and invoke Allah till He remove that state," (Sahih Bukhari: Book #72, Hadith #676)

And there is NO rule that you can ONLY pray regular five times prayers. U can pray even more. Those five times a day prayer are FARD(Obligatory). But there are differnet types of Salah as well. See it here at:http://www.themeaningofislam.org/fiv...f_prayers.html

And here at:http://www.islam.com/salat/typesofprayers.htm

Some types of Salat is forbidden to pray at some special times. It is discussed here at : http://www.islamintro.8m.com/forbiddentimes.htm

So You were doing a whole lot completely anti-Islamic assumption to blame Islam.
Reply

True-blue
07-31-2011, 09:01 AM
Originally Posted by JOHNJOHN
Peace Sister


He prayed not because it was time of the prayer and he did not pray Allah but because he saw an eclipse ( Sun and moon)


Peace
What a stupid assertion! Every prayer in Islam is directed to Allah ALONE. No where does the Hadith say that the Prophet (PBUH) was praying to somebody else. The Prophet was praying a special prayer to ALLAH as he saw a phenomena of Almighty Allah that is the eclipse. To say that prayer, He went to Mosque and offered two rakat salah. The very Salat is started by pronouncing loudly 'ALLAHU AKBAR' that is God is the greatest. Moreover,(Sahih Bukhari: Book #72, Hadith #676) confirms that He was praying to ALLAH alone. Look at the underlined text below.

Narrated Abu Bakra: The solar eclipse occurred while we were sitting with the Prophet He got up dragging his garment (on the ground) hurriedly till he reached the mosque The people turned (to the mosque) and he offered a two-Rak'at prayer whereupon the eclipse was over and he traced us and said, "The sun and the moon are two signs among the signs of Allah, so if you see a thing like this (eclipse) then offer the prayer and invoke Allah till He remove that state," (Sahih Bukhari: Book #72, Hadith #676)

And there is NO rule that you can ONLY pray regular five times prayers. U can pray even more. Those five times a day prayer are FARD(Obligatory). But there are differnet types of Salah as well. See it here at wwwthemeaningofislamorg/five_pillars/salah/types_of_prayershtml

And here at:wwwislamcom/salat/typesofprayershtm

Some types of Salat is forbidden to pray at some special times. It is discussed here at : wwwislamintro8mcomforbiddentimeshtm

Please google the links and visit from there.

So You were doing a whole lot of completely anti-Islamic assumption to blame Islam.
Reply

True-blue
07-31-2011, 09:25 AM
Originally Posted by JOHNJOHN


He prayed not because it was time of the prayer and he did not pray Allah but because he saw an eclipse ( Sun and moon)


Peace
What a stupid assertion! Every prayer in Islam is directed to Allah ALONE. No where does the Hadith say that the Prophet (PBUH) was praying to somebody else. The Prophet was praying a special prayer to ALLAH as he saw a phenomena of Almighty Allah that is the eclipse. To say that prayer, He went to Mosque and offered two rakat salah. The very Salat is started by pronouncing loudly 'ALLAHU AKBAR' that is God is the greatest. Moreover,(Sahih Bukhari: Book #72, Hadith #676) confirms that He was praying to ALLAH alone. Look at the underlined text below.

Narrated Abu Bakra: The solar eclipse occurred while we were sitting with the Prophet He got up dragging his garment (on the ground) hurriedly till he reached the mosque The people turned (to the mosque) and he offered a two-Rak'at prayer whereupon the eclipse was over and he traced us and said, "The sun and the moon are two signs among the signs of Allah, so if you see a thing like this (eclipse) then offer the prayer and invoke Allah till He remove that state," (Sahih Bukhari: Book #72, Hadith #676)

And there is NO rule that you can ONLY pray regular five times prayers. U can pray even more. Those five times a day prayer are FARD(Obligatory). But there are different types of Salah as well.

So, your accusation was based on a completely anti-Islamic assumption.
Reply

True-blue
07-31-2011, 01:30 PM
Originally Posted by JOHNJOHN
Peace Sister


In the Quran Allah says that :

41:37 Among His Signs are the Night and the Day, and the Sun and the Moon. Adore not the sun and the moon, but adore Allah, Who created them, if it is Him ye wish to serve.


In the ahaadeths above we have :

- The prophete Mohamed
- The eclipse

He prayed not because it was time of the prayer and he did not pray Allah but because he saw an eclipse ( Sun and moon)


Peace
What a stupid assertion! Every prayer in Islam is directed to Allah ALONE. No where does the Hadith say that the Prophet (PBUH) was praying to somebody else. The Prophet was praying a special prayer to ALLAH as he saw a phenomena of Almighty Allah that is the eclipse. To say that prayer, He went to Mosque and offered two rakat salah. The very Salat is started by pronouncing loudly 'ALLAHU AKBAR' that is God is the greatest. Moreover,(Sahih Bukhari: Book #72, Hadith #676) confirms that He was praying to ALLAH alone. Look at the underlined text below.

Narrated Abu Bakra: The solar eclipse occurred while we were sitting with the Prophet He got up dragging his garment (on the ground) hurriedly till he reached the mosque The people turned (to the mosque) and he offered a two-Rak'at prayer whereupon the eclipse was over and he traced us and said, "The sun and the moon are two signs among the signs of Allah, so if you see a thing like this (eclipse) then offer the prayer and invoke Allah till He remove that state," (Sahih Bukhari: Book #72, Hadith #676)

And there is NO rule that you can ONLY pray regular five times prayers. U can pray even more. Those five times a day prayer are FARD(Obligatory). But there are different types of Salah as well.

So You were using completely anti-Islamic assumptions to blame Islam.
Reply

JOHNJOHN
07-31-2011, 03:53 PM
Peace


Can you tell me why in the verse 37 S 41 Allah Says do not Bow down in front of the Sun and the Moon

But the prophete Mohamed did the opposite ?

The verse I brought above is not well translated lets see the one bellow :


S41:V37 Among His Signs are the Night and the Day, and the Sun and the Moon. Do not prostrate to the sun and the moon, but prostrate to Allah, Who created them, if it is Him ye wish to serve.


What I do not understand is it hard for you to understand what I am trying to explain you.


Read many times the verse and try to understand the order of Allah to muslims and see what the prophete Mohamed did.

What is the order of Allah ?
The prophete Mohamed prayed when he saw what ?


Peace.
Reply

JOHNJOHN
07-31-2011, 04:10 PM
Peace


I am sorry imsad if you feel that I am not here to blame Islam, I am here to share with you research about Islam I have done and ask you questions to complete my knowledge.

I rescpect all the religions around the world.

I respect everybody here you are my sisters and brothers in humanity and I love you all only god knows what I have deeply in my heart.

You call your god Allah and me I beleive and I know there is a god but for me he has no name we can not give him a name as we can not describe him or we can not place him.


Peace.:smile:
Reply

جوري
07-31-2011, 08:46 PM
Originally Posted by JOHNJOHN
Peace


I am sorry imsad if you feel that I am not here to blame Islam, I am here to share with you research about Islam I have done and ask you questions to complete my knowledge.

I rescpect all the religions around the world.

I respect everybody here you are my sisters and brothers in humanity and I love you all only god knows what I have deeply in my heart.

You call your god Allah and me I beleive and I know there is a god but for me he has no name we can not give him a name as we can not describe him or we can not place him.


Peace.:smile:
you don't have to apologize to us for your poor understanding and convoluted, perverse thoughts! it is however, something you have to work on, on your private time, since we have amply explained to you different types of prayers, whether you choose to accept that or reject it, it is your own business.

I think we're all done here!

best,
Reply

True-blue
08-01-2011, 06:55 AM
First of all sorry for posting four times. It was unintentional. I could not understand and hence post it four times unintentionally.
Reply

True-blue
08-01-2011, 07:36 AM
Originally Posted by JOHNJOHN
Peace


Can you tell me why in the verse 37 S 41 Allah Says do not Bow down in front of the Sun and the Moon

But the prophete Mohamed did the opposite ?

The verse I brought above is not well translated lets see the one bellow :


S41:V37 Among His Signs are the Night and the Day, and the Sun and the Moon. Do not prostrate to the sun and the moon, but prostrate to Allah, Who created them, if it is Him ye wish to serve.


What I do not understand is it hard for you to understand what I am trying to explain you.


Read many times the verse and try to understand the order of Allah to muslims and see what the prophete Mohamed did.

What is the order of Allah ?
The prophete Mohamed prayed when he saw what ?


Peace.
I have read that verse many times. I have also read the hadith presented below many times.The prophet did not do anything opposite to the verse 41.37. He clearly followed that verse. I wonder where do you get those ideas from. .Sahih Bukhari: Book #72, Hadith #676 confirms that He was praying to ALLAH alone. Look at the underlined text below.

Narrated Abu Bakra: The solar eclipse occurred while we were sitting with the Prophet He got up dragging his garment (on the ground) hurriedly till he reached the mosque The people turned (to the mosque) and he offered a two-Rak'at prayer whereupon the eclipse was over and he traced us and said, "The sun and the moon are two signs among the signs of Allah, so if you see a thing like this (eclipse) then offer the prayer and invoke Allah till He remove that state," (Sahih Bukhari: Book #72, Hadith #676)


Please take a special look at those highlighted bold, and underlined text. Nowhere does it say that the Prophet(PBUH) was bowing to sun and moon.He went to Mosque to say the Prayer to ALLAH. Muslims go to Mosque to say prayer to Allah Alone . The very prayer is started by pronouncing loudly 'ALLAHU AKBAR' that is God is the greatest. And that's why the Prophet (PBUH) said sun and moon are just two signs among many other signs of Allah, that is they are not gods, so Muslims must INVOKE ALLAH till Allah removes that state. So, the Prophet(PBUH) was praying a special prayer to ALLAH as he saw a phenomena of Almighty Allah that is the eclipse. There is not a shred of evidence that He was praying to someone else. On the contrary, the Prophet(PBUH) was praying to Allah Alone and he followed the order given at the verse 41.37. So, Your accusation against the Prophet (PBUH)is nothing less than a myth.
Reply

True-blue
08-01-2011, 11:51 AM
Originally Posted by JOHNJOHN
Peace


I am sorry imsad if you feel that I am not here to blame Islam, I am here to share with you research about Islam I have done and ask you questions to complete my knowledge.
Your accusation was not worthy of a result from research, it was a baseless assumption. And of course, complete your research by asking Muslims here ,and please avoid bigotry and listen to them attentively.


I respect everybody here you are my sisters and brothers in humanity and I love you all only god knows what I have deeply in my heart.
Very Good
You call your god Allah and me I beleive and I know there is a god but for me he has no name we can not give him a name as we can not describe him or we can not place him.[/QUOTE]

Your comment is quite contradictory. You are calling Him God, so that's a name. Anyway, Allah means Al-Ilah, Al means 'the', Ilah means God. So, Allah means 'The God' in English. But the word Allah does not have any gender like goddess in English. There is no plural of it like gods, goddesses . That's why 'Allah' is the best name of one and only God.


Peace.:smile:
Peace.:smile:
Reply

JOHNJOHN
08-02-2011, 08:34 PM
Peace


Can you tell me why we have such surahs in the Quran :


An-Nur (The Light)
An-Najm (The Star)
Al-Qamar (The Moon)
Al-Buruj (The Stars) I think that mean the constellations ?
Ash-Shams (The Sun)


I went recently to a muslim cemetery and I saw many stars and moons above the graves is it normal ?


About the ahaadeth where the prophete Mohamed prayed when he saw an eclipse I try to give you an example.

If you are driving and you are in the front of a trafic light what will allowed you to drive again ? when you will see with your eyes the green light ?

The prophete Mohamed at the sight of the eclipse he prayed automaticllay.



Peace.
Reply

جوري
08-03-2011, 11:44 PM
Originally Posted by JOHNJOHN
Peace



I went recently to a muslim cemetery and I saw many stars and moons above the graves is it normal ?




Peace.
I'd love to see that care to share the pix?

best,
Reply

Innocent Soul
08-04-2011, 10:19 AM
In think Bro True-blue explained it very nicely. Do you know why Allah has sent this Quran? It's for the same reason that Allah has releaved these surahs. There are many verses in the Quran with their names as Allah's creations.

Baqarah -The Cow
Ar-Ra'ad -The Thunder
Nahl -The Bee
Al-Naml -The Ant
Al-Ankabut -The Spider
Al-Hadid -Iron
Al-Dahr -The Man

Brother I think you should read the Enlosh translation of the verQuran rather than judging Quran by the names of Surahs.

Originally Posted by JOHNJOHN
I went recently to a muslim cemetery and I saw many stars and moons above the graves is it normal ?
Please don't mind in which country you saw all that? I have never seen such things even though I live in a muslim country.

Peace.
Reply

JOHNJOHN
08-05-2011, 05:10 PM
Originally Posted by Innocent Soul
In think Bro True-blue explained it very nicely. Do you know why Allah has sent this Quran? It's for the same reason that Allah has releaved these surahs. There are many verses in the Quran with their names as Allah's creations.

Baqarah -The Cow
Ar-Ra'ad -The Thunder
Nahl -The Bee
Al-Naml -The Ant
Al-Ankabut -The Spider
Al-Hadid -Iron
Al-Dahr -The Man

Brother I think you should read the Enlosh translation of the verQuran rather than judging Quran by the names of Surahs.



Please don't mind in which country you saw all that? I have never seen such things even though I live in a muslim country.

Peace.


Peace Sister in humanity Innocent Soul


Do you have Internet ?
Type in google (Photos research) muslims cemetry+moon


If someone find some Photos could you please display them here.



Peace:statisfie
Reply

Abz2000
08-06-2011, 07:41 PM
Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
Are you saying it is comparable to idol worship?
i am this text was on wikipedia under "flag of turkey" up until Jan 2011 - it has since disappeared - you can find it in the history :
The crescent moon and star were mistakenly attributed to the Islamic faith. However, Islam has historically had no symbol or symbols - in fact there is a disdain within Islam for the use of iconic symbols - and many Muslims find its use blasphemous, even to this day. After all, the moon and star used in conjunction were originally pagan icons. Though the Crescent Moon and a Star appear on the flags of several Muslim countries, it should be seen more as a historical symbol of the land, the territory or the empire, rather than of a state religion. It was adopted by reformists who changed the Islamic Constitution.
Star and Crescent with the points of the crescent facing left and the star on the left represents the moon goddess Dianna and the "son of the morning", the name of Lucifer in Isaiah 14:12. Witchcraft uses it this way and Satanism turns it in the opposite direction i.e. the points towards the right, and the pentagram on its right.






ps. satanism also uses as snake making a circle around a pentagram, unless one looks closely - they would easily say it's a crescent and star - just google "crescent moon and star satanism" - hit images
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 02-26-2009, 03:52 PM
  2. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-07-2008, 11:03 PM
  3. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 08-02-2008, 02:57 AM
  4. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-13-2007, 06:39 PM
HeartHijab.com | Hijab Sale | Pound Shop | UK Wholesale Certified Face Masks, Hand Sanitiser & PPE

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!