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AlexJ90
07-17-2009, 07:26 PM
Are the kuffars meant to be punished in this world?, meaning is violence amongst the kuffars permissable? I know that Allah will banish them to eternal hell and pain in the hereafter, however does the quran say anything about WE the believers treating the kuffars differently? or hurting them?

Thanks brothers
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AabiruSabeel
07-17-2009, 09:08 PM
No, in fact a Hadith says that this world is a Paradise for disbelievers. Islam has given rights for even the non-Muslims living in a Muslim country. Muslims are not allowed to harm anyone (Muslim or non-Muslim) unjustly. This world is not a place for punishments; it is the place of exam. The results will be declared on the Day of Judgement and then we will either be rewarded or punished.
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AlexJ90
07-17-2009, 10:35 PM
Thanks

However i done some reading and According to the Qur’an, denying a Messenger of God in spite of being convinced about his veracity is something which deserves severe punishment both in this world and in the Hereafter since this is tantamount to deliberately denying the Almighty Himself. The worldly punishment of the Disbelievers (Kuffar) was carried out by the Almighty in two ways: Either He directly destroyed them Himself through disasters and calamities or by His Messengers and their Companions (rta) -- who in this exercise were no more than agents of His retribution. In the second case, the Messengers and their Companions (rta) just replaced the weapons of destruction as the role of earthquakes, storms, cyclones and lightning was assumed by them.
Referring to the first form of punishment, the Qur’an says:

Each one of them We seized for their crime: of them, against some We sent a violent tornado with showers of stones; some were caught by a mighty blast; some We sunk in the earth; and some We drowned in the waters. (29:40)


Referring to the second form of divine punishment, the Qur’an asserts:

Fight them [ O Believers!] and God will punish them with your hands and humiliate them and help you to victory over them. (9:14)

It is not you [O believers] who slew them; it was [ in fact] God [who slew] them. (8:17)

While explaining this verse, the celebrated Muslim authority, Shah Wali Ullah, writes:

The Prophet Muhammad (sws) and his Companions (rta) in the fulfillment of this mission became like angels who also strive for the implementation of God’s directives. The difference between angelic and human undertakings is that the former strive without being guided by any universal principle, while human beings fight for the sake of a definite overall objective given to them by the Almighty. Thus Jihad becomes the greatest of all their deeds. That is why the act of killing is not attributed to them. It is attributed to the Divine Being who issued the directive to kill. This is like ascribing the act of killing of a traitor to the ruler rather than the slayer, as the Qur’an says: ‘You slew them not, but God slew them’.

In other words, what needs to be understood is that it was the Almighty who took matters in His own hands and punished the Kuffar in this world in the time of His Messengers. It is precisely for this reason that in this particular sphere, the Prophet Muhammad (sws) is not a role model for Muslims. What mankind needs to learn from this whole exercise is to be mindful of a reality that it tends to forget: reward and punishment in the Hereafter on the basis of a person’s deeds. This reward and punishment which is to take place in the Hereafter is substantiated visually by the Almighty through the agency of His Messengers so that mankind may always remain heedful to this reality. The court of justice which will be set up for every person on the Day of Judgement was set up for the nations of Messengers in this world so that the latter could become a visual testimony to the former. The Qur’an at numerous instances has used this argument to substantiate the reward and punishment in the Hereafter. In Surah Haqqah, for example, it says:

The Inevitable! What is the Inevitable? What do you know what the Inevitable is? It is the Pounding One which the ‘Ad and the Thamud denied. As for the Thamud, they were destroyed by a calamity that exceeded all bounds and the ‘Ad by a storm, fierce and violent. He let loose this [storm] on them for seven nights and eight days to ravage them. You would have seen them lying overthrown as though they were hollow trunks of palm-trees. So do you now see any of them? And the same crime was committed by Pharaoh and those before him and by the overturned settlements also such that they disobeyed the Messenger of their Lord [sws]. So He gripped them with an intensifying grip. [Similarly, as a consequence of denying Noah (sws)] when [the storm blew over and] the flood rose high it was We who carried you upon the ark to make this [account of your ancestors] a reminder for you and that retaining ears may retain it . (69:1-12)

The justification of the retribution carried out by the Messengers on the Kuffar is that through divine help, the basic truths become manifest in their personalities to the extent that no one is left with any excuse to deny it. In the words of the Qur’an, this is called Shahadah ‘ala al-nas (bearing witness to the truth before other peoples). The Almighty has referred to this aspect in the following words:

To you [O People of the Quraysh!] We have sent forth a Rasul as witness to the truth upon you just as we sent a Rasul to the Pharaoh. (73:15)

In other words, what authorizes a Messenger to punish the Kuffar is that it can be ascertained in this very world that they are guilty of denying the basic truths in spite of being convinced about them. Good and evil are elucidated with ultimate clarity and people who accept evil do so not because of any confusion but because of their own stubbornness.
So it can be concluded that since a Messenger reveals the basic truths in their ultimate form and those who deny it do so because of their stubbornness and even confess their sins, a Messenger has the perfect justification to punish his people after they have denied him.
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Eric H
07-17-2009, 11:01 PM
Greetings and peace be with you AlexIslam;1187487]Thanks

Each one of them We seized for their crime: of them, against some We sent a violent tornado with showers of stones; some were caught by a mighty blast; some We sunk in the earth; and some We drowned in the waters. (29:40)
How does that fit in when Muslims are killed in Earthquakes, Tsunamis and floods?

In other words, what authorizes a Messenger to punish the Kuffar is that it can be ascertained in this very world that they are guilty of denying the basic truths in spite of being convinced about them.
A few centuries ago Christians felt it was ok to torture and kill people they called heretics, I believe it was wrong for them, and it would also be wrong for Muslims.

In the spirit of praying to a loving and forgiving God

Eric
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AlexJ90
07-17-2009, 11:58 PM
thanks for your reply bro.

Fight them [ O Believers!] and God will punish them with your hands and humiliate them and help you to victory over them. (9:14)

I believe the quran is stating that the kuffars should be punished in both worlds. They are commiting the biggest sin of all. (Not believing in the Oneness of Allah, as their creator)
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AabiruSabeel
07-18-2009, 05:58 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AlexIslam
I believe the quran is stating that the kuffars should be punished in both worlds. They are commiting the biggest sin of all. (Not believing in the Oneness of Allah, as their creator)
No Muslim has a right to punish a non-Muslim unjustly. It is Allah who decides whom to punish, when to punish, punish using what.
So we cannot choose to punish whom we want, but that was a command during a war to fight them, and Allah is punishing them using the Muslims.

Muslims are obliged to convey the Message of Islam. If we analyse the history of mankind, we will find that Allah has sent a Messenger or a Prophet to each and every nation. And until and unless the Prophet delivered the message to each and every individual towards whom he was sent, Allah has not sent the punishment. Prophet Nooh (AS) had to preach for 950 years to deliver the message. Similarly, Prophets Hood, Salih, Loot 'Alaihimus Salam, etc when they fulfilled their duty of delivering the message, Allah Subhanahu waTa'ala sent the punishment on the disbelievers.
And now, since the Message given to the Last and Final Messenger, Muhammad Sallallahu 'Alaihi waSallam is for the whole mankind, till the day of Judgement, Allah will not send a general punishment on the whole community until and unless we deliver the message to each and every corner of the world.
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AlexJ90
07-18-2009, 03:42 PM
ok got it thanks. It seems to be the general attitude towards kuffars here is nothing, but neutral right?

Got the answer though bro thanks
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AlexJ90
07-18-2009, 04:14 PM
that text i mentioned is quoted from the first google search result when asking the attitude towards kuffars.

http://www.renaissance.com.pk/mar_b2y2.html

thats the source
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