Muslims welcome police scarf move

[Uthman]

Avon and Somerset Police is issuing head coverings to its female officers so they can enter mosques.

The force says the move will help its officers respect Muslim religious customs while carrying out their job.

The garments, designed to match the force's uniform, were designed in consultation with Muslim groups.

Imam Rashad Azami, of Bath, said: "This will go a long way in encouraging a trustful relationship between the police and the Muslim community."

Mr Azami, director of Bath Islamic Society, said: "The police have been working closely with the Muslim community in the area on many levels for the last few years."

There are two versions of the head coverings, to match the black of a police officer's uniform and the blue of the Police Community Support Officer uniforms.

Both carry the force's crest.

Source

[Clover]

Honestly, I'd find that rather, un-needed. I mean, if a murderer runs into a mosque, I wouldn't want a female police officer to stop cause it would insult someone, but not my choice, good luck to whoever has to wear it.

[aadil77]

Honestly, I'd find that rather, un-needed. I mean, if a murderer runs into a mosque, I wouldn't want a female police officer to stop cause it would insult someone, but not my choice, good luck to whoever has to wear it.

If you read the article you can tell that the scarfs aren't for rare crime cases where a female officer has to enter a mosque, they're for 'working' with the muslim community which will involve having to interact with muslim men in a mosque

[Clover]

If you read the article you can tell that the scarfs aren't for rare crime cases where a female officer has to enter a mosque, they're for 'working' with the muslim community which will involve having to interact with muslim men in a mosque

Murder isn't rare, sadly. Maybe in that area it is, but I am kinda lost on where this is.

Hmm, I think I see your point. The Female Officers that want to work in that sector, are required to wear it when out in public, right? I guess that is ok, but I am still against the idea of law enforcement being told to wear certain clothing for any religion.

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[aadil77]

Murder isn't rare, sadly. Maybe in that area it is, but I am kinda lost on where this is.

Hmm, I think I see your point. The Female Officers that want to work in that sector, are required to wear it when out in public, right? I guess that is ok, but I am still against the idea of law enforcement being told to wear certain clothing for any religion.

No you're still not getting the point, inside a mosque everyone has to obey the dress code, whether you're muslim or not doesn't matter as its out of respect, so if female officers want to work close with muslims in mosques they will have to make some sacrifice. Everyone does whether its a non muslim school teacher on a school trip to a mosque or muslim women.

I dont get you about the 'murder' thing? how likely is it that a criminal is going to run into a mosque, even then in those serious situations there will will be some compromise so dresscode wont be a problem at the time.

[Clover]

They don't 'have' to do it. They could do it, and insult people. I don't have to breath oxygen, I can stop, and die, that's the consequence.

It can happen, they have had them run into churches before, or temples. It is rare, but still a possibility. Criminals will do anything to escape.

[GuestFellow]

Hmmm

This is minor. Not a serious issue. It just appears the government want to gain the Muslim community trust and I respect that. Call me naive but I rather start seeing the positive side of what the government are doing.

There won't be criminal activity taking place in the mosque where a female police officer would be chasing a bank robber. lol

I guess the only time a female police officer has to enter a mosque when they need the community support or to search the premises. I doubt this proposal is going to be disruptive to the police investigation.

If people assume it is, I would wait and see what happens.

I dont get you about the 'murder' thing? how likely is it that a criminal is going to run into a mosque, even then in those serious situations there will will be some compromise so dresscode wont be a problem at the time.

Less than 0.

If there was a dangerous criminal who went into the mosque, the police officers have to enter the mosque despite not wearing the Islamic dress code. That is their job. Same with the ambulance service. If the Imam gets a heart attack, I don't think the paramedics would rush off to find Islamic clothing and then enter the mosque. :/

So yeah this does not apply to emergency situations.

[Trumble]

Murder isn't rare, sadly. Maybe in that area it is, but I am kinda lost on where this is.

It's a fairly quite area of south west England. Murders are not common.

As has been said, though, this is more a community relations thing than anything else. Obviously a lot of muslim life revolves around the mosque, and this just allows female officers to talk to Imams and other community leaders in a mosque while respecting their hosts' traditions.

[Clover]

It doesn't allow it, it forces it. Difference.

[GuestFellow]

It doesn't allow it, it forces it. Difference.

Aren't the police forced to wear a uniform too? Just like fire fighters, nurses, doctors and so on.

Like I was forced to wear a school uniform. :/

[Clover]

Aren't the police forced to wear a uniform too? Just like fire fighters, nurses, doctors and so on.

Like I was forced to wear a school uniform. :/

That is for them to be able to be recognized sir :). If a guy came up to you with a gun and told you to spread em, what would you do? exactly :).

[Woodrow]

It doesn't allow it, it forces it. Difference.

A police officer is a public servent. A police officer is hired by and works for the local community. The local community dictates what it's workers should or should not wear.

If you work for McDonalds you wear a McDonald's uniform when you are behind the counter. If you are a police officer you in a Catholic Neighborhood you remove your firearm and hat before entering a church. If you are in a Jewish neighborhood you wear a yamulk when entering a synagogue.

The above conditions apply nearly world wide. The exceptions when you do not follow the appropriate dress code is in the event of an emergency.

Islamic neighborhoods should have the same respect. It is not asking for anything that would hinder the police officer's performance, it would only serve to gain mutual respect an understanding. If a police officer has any problem with earning community respect and cooperation they need to find another line of work.

[aadil77]

It doesn't allow it, it forces it. Difference.

Now you're sounding childish, who's forcing it exactly? You see over here people are sensitive of different minorities beliefs, they themselves are considerate of others so no-one has to force anything. The police have a choice if they're not getting as good results from the community because they can't follow a simple dress adjustment then its up to them to do something about it, its not like you can force the police to do anything anyway?

[Amadeus85]

A police officer is a public servent. A police officer is hired by and works for the local community. The local community dictates what it's workers should or should not wear.

If you work for McDonalds you wear a McDonald's uniform when you are behind the counter. If you are a police officer you in a Catholic Neighborhood you remove your firearm and hat before entering a church. If you are in a Jewish neighborhood you wear a yamulk when entering a synagogue.

The above conditions apply nearly world wide. The exceptions when you do not follow the appropriate dress code is in the event of an emergency.

Islamic neighborhoods should have the same respect. It is not asking for anything that would hinder the police officer's performance, it would only serve to gain mutual respect an understanding. If a police officer has any problem with earning community respect and cooperation they need to find another line of work.

Hold on, since muslims so many times remind us that european countries are (unfortunately) secular, do I have to remind it now to You? Police entering synagogue in yarmulkas? Is there any proof of that? Because it would be hilarious in secular UK. Or maybe its from Monthy Pyton show ;D.
If the police women officers really wear hijab to enter mosque it would be against secularism, that you adore so much.
Anyway I find it as completely stupid idea.

[Woodrow]

Hold on, since muslims so many times remind us that european countries are (unfortunately) secular, do I have to remind it now to You? Police entering synagogue in yarmulkas? Is there any proof of that? Because it would be hilarious in secular UK. Or maybe its from Monthy Pyton show ;D.
If the police women officers really wear hijab to enter mosque it would be against secularism, that you adore so much.
Anyway I find it as completely stupid idea.

If a police officer enters your house, not in the pursuit of a criminal or for the investigation of a crime, would it not be appropriate for him/her to follow the rules of your house?

We are not speaking of the officer entering in the role of conducting a police matter, we are speaking of them entering to meet the community and listening to the people of the neighborhood.

Simple matter: it is forbidden for a woman to enter a Mosque without wearing a Hijab. Is there any logical reason a police officer should be exempted from doing so? It is forbidden for a person to smoke in many public places. Should a police officer who smokes be permitted to enter those places ? Is there any reason a police officer should be exempted from respecting another's rights? Notice those officers are not being required to wear a hijab all of the time. ONLY, when entering a Mosque in non-Criminal and non-emergency matters.

Or to sum it up in a simple method.


1. A Mosque has the right to exclude anyone from entering the Mosque if they are not showing respect. The exception being emergency personnel in the performance of emergency duties.

2. If a Police woman desires to enter a Mosque for non-Emergency reasons, she is no different from any other woman and must wear a Hijab.

3. The Police departments are issuing the women hijabs so they can enter the Mosque, for non-emergencies if they desire to do so.

[- IqRa -]

MashaAllaah, this is good.

[GuestFellow]

That is for them to be able to be recognized sir :). If a guy came up to you with a gun and told you to spread em, what would you do? exactly :).

I agree with what you said. But during emergency they don't have to wear an Islamic dress to enter the mosque.

[Ansariyah]

Wat are they gonna do in the mosques tho? Looking for criminals?

[GuestFellow]

Wat are they gonna do in the mosques tho? Looking for criminals?

Maybe. Or gain the Muslim community cooperation.

[Muezzin]

Honestly, I'd find that rather, un-needed. I mean, if a murderer runs into a mosque, I wouldn't want a female police officer to stop cause it would insult someone, but not my choice, good luck to whoever has to wear it.

It's not for emergency situations. It's for community relations things. You know, talks, meetings and the like. I'd say it's a good move in that context, since the goal is to gain and strengthen trust.

In emergency situations, the emergency services can wear whatever they like so long as they sort the situation out.

[Amadeus85]

If a police officer enters your house, not in the pursuit of a criminal or for the investigation of a crime, would it not be appropriate for him/her to follow the rules of your house?

We are not speaking of the officer entering in the role of conducting a police matter, we are speaking of them entering to meet the community and listening to the people of the neighborhood.

Simple matter: it is forbidden for a woman to enter a Mosque without wearing a Hijab. Is there any logical reason a police officer should be exempted from doing so? It is forbidden for a person to smoke in many public places. Should a police officer who smokes be permitted to enter those places ? Is there any reason a police officer should be exempted from respecting another's rights? Notice those officers are not being required to wear a hijab all of the time. ONLY, when entering a Mosque in non-Criminal and non-emergency matters.

Or to sum it up in a simple method.


1. A Mosque has the right to exclude anyone from entering the Mosque if they are not showing respect. The exception being emergency personnel in the performance of emergency duties.

2. If a Police woman desires to enter a Mosque for non-Emergency reasons, she is no different from any other woman and must wear a Hijab.

3. The Police departments are issuing the women hijabs so they can enter the Mosque, for non-emergencies if they desire to do so.

Mmm so do muslims see some parts of Birmingham, London, or Leeds as muslims' places?
If yes, I want to say how big suckers the Englanders are.

[GuestFellow]

Mmm so do muslims see some parts of Birmingham, London, or Leeds as muslims' places?
If yes, I want to say how big suckers the Englanders are.

Depends. What do you mean muslims' places?

BTW why is this topic getting blown out of proportion? It just seems to boil down to West vs Islam. If you are devastated by this, complain to the police force. They are the one who had introduced this.

[Woodrow]

Mmm so do muslims see some parts of Birmingham, London, or Leeds as muslims' places?
If yes, I want to say how big suckers the Englanders are.

Does that mean you believe a Mosque is not a Muslim place?

We are talking about entering a Mosque, not about going into a predominately Muslim neighborhood.

Do you think a Muslim police officer should be permitted to wear a Hijab into a Christian Cathedral, if the Cathedral forbid the wearing of a Hijab?

The simple fact is a woman is not permitted to into a Mosque without a hijab, unless she is entering because of an emergency. Why should it make any difference what the woman's job is, unless she is entering because of an emergency? Even the queen of England would not be allowed without a Hijab, unless she was entering because of an emergency.

[Clover]

Now you're sounding childish, who's forcing it exactly? You see over here people are sensitive of different minorities beliefs, they themselves are considerate of others so no-one has to force anything. The police have a choice if they're not getting as good results from the community because they can't follow a simple dress adjustment then its up to them to do something about it, its not like you can force the police to do anything anyway?

Thanks, love being called a child, really :).

Same could be said to Muslims. I am not saying its wrong for them to abide to the rules, I am saying it's wrong for them to do this, cause then what if every religious group wants that? Every neighborhood have specific dress codes for police, who are supposed to not only be under the local community, but the state.

A police officer is a public servent. A police officer is hired by and works for the local community. The local community dictates what it's workers should or should not wear.

If you work for McDonalds you wear a McDonald's uniform when you are behind the counter. If you are a police officer you in a Catholic Neighborhood you remove your firearm and hat before entering a church. If you are in a Jewish neighborhood you wear a yamulk when entering a synagogue.

The above conditions apply nearly world wide. The exceptions when you do not follow the appropriate dress code is in the event of an emergency.

Islamic neighborhoods should have the same respect. It is not asking for anything that would hinder the police officer's performance, it would only serve to gain mutual respect an understanding. If a police officer has any problem with earning community respect and cooperation they need to find another line of work.

I would wear a McDonald's uniform so I can be recognized, if someone needs assistant, not so I don't offend McDonald's Owners.

It isn't the same thing. McDonald's is a organization, where people are employed by a private corporation, Police are ran by the community, yes, but if a Islamic Neighborhood makes rules, what if every religion has specific rules for their neighborhoods? That is a lot of trouble to go through, to appease people.

[GuestFellow]

Thanks, love being called a child, really :).

Same could be said to Muslims. I am not saying its wrong for them to abide to the rules, I am saying it's wrong for them to do this, cause then what if every religious group wants that? Every neighborhood have specific dress codes for police, who are supposed to not only be under the local community, but the state.

Actually the Muslims never even suggested this. It was the police force themselves who proposed this idea. o.o The police would never suggest this unless they would benefit from it.

[Clover]

Actually the Muslims never even suggested this. It was the police force themselves who proposed this idea. o.o The police would never suggest this unless they would benefit from it.

Ok, Point proven. I accept it.

Question though, are the women required to wear it outside of mosques in the neighborhood?

Question Again lol, why do religious sects (especially Jews, Muslims, Amish/others) stay so close together? I mean, I wouldn't mind having a Jewish neighbor, or a Muslim neighbor, but would they mind having me?

[GuestFellow]

Ok, Point proven. I accept it.

Question though, are the women required to wear it outside of mosques in the neighborhood?

Well it doesn't say anything in the article to suggest that. So I don't think police women will be required to wear the scarf outisde.

Question Again lol, why do religious sects (especially Jews, Muslims, Amish/others) stay so close together? I mean, I wouldn't mind having a Jewish neighbor, or a Muslim neighbor, but would they mind having me?

I have an Irish neighbour and he drinks alcohol and I'm friends with him lol. I have a lot of friends that are non-Muslims. There are Muslims I know that are friends with non-Muslims at college.

I can't speak for all Muslims, but the Muslims in my area are friendly towards non-Muslims. Not many Muslims stay so close together. At school I know Muslims who hate other Muslims. So that is not always the case.

So no I wouldn't mind having you as my neighbour.

[Clover]

I would. I don't have neighbors, where I live, a neighbor lives around 5 miles down the road, and either owns a farm, works on a farm, or lives on a hobby farm lol. I love that, but it kinda stinks when all your friends live in the city.

[Woodrow]

Ok, Point proven. I accept it.

Question though, are the women required to wear it outside of mosques in the neighborhood?

If you are speaking about the non-Muslim Police women, the answer is no. That never was the issue, the issue was the Police women entering the Mosque in non-Emergency situations.

Question Again lol, why do religious sects (especially Jews, Muslims, Amish/others) stay so close together? I mean, I wouldn't mind having a Jewish neighbor, or a Muslim neighbor, but would they mind having me?

The reason quite often is because they are not accepted in other areas. I noticed in Austin when I was living there, when a few Muslims moved into an area, often the surrounding people moved out. In time those vacant homes became occupied by Muslims, so you ended up in all Muslim neighbor hoods. Traditionally in the USA Old white neighborhoods become Jewish enclaves and then progress to being essentially Black Neighborhoods and then Hispanic. It is not so much a desire to isolate from the mainstream populations but rather an unwritten code of segregation based upon housing availability. Although Austin also has many neighborhoods that are multi-cultural. The Amish generally become clanish because they tend to shun all modern conveniences and seek undeveloped land to self build their houses. Quite often you find several families buying a piece of property and sharing it for homesites and farming. Here in Minnesota the Amish tend to cooperate and jointly buy gigantic pieces of land usually in the thousands of acres.

For the second part of you question I do not know any Muslims who would object to having a non-Muslim neighbor as long as the neighbor was peaceful and non-aggressive towards them.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Question Again lol, why do religious sects (especially Jews, Muslims, Amish/others) stay so close together? I mean, I wouldn't mind having a Jewish neighbor, or a Muslim neighbor, but would they mind having me?

i doubt it. should we mind having you though?

[Clover]

i doubt it. should we mind having you though?

No, unless you can afford the fields to buy to live near me, which are very expensive.