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Ummu Sufyaan
07-28-2009, 09:18 AM
:sl:
do refugees want to return to their war torn/ poverty stricken etc countries, as sometimes i hear that one wants to escape their country and never return again but i always thought that one would always have that love/sense of nationalism -if you like- to their country no matter what happens? no?

i'd be interested to know if any studies have been done regarding this...
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ardianto
07-28-2009, 05:50 PM
They never want to return because they are affraid.

Every year hundreds Afghanis come to Indonesia as ilegal comer, but they came not for seek asylum from Indonesian govt. They just transit then going further to their final destination, Australia or New Zealand. Unfortunately, many of the were arested by Indonesian police. They were jailed in imigration prison before Indonesian govt deportate them back to Afghanistan.

Except few Afghanis, they always make a resistance if Indonesian govt try to send them back, even in some cases they sewed their lips as a protest.

One Afghani, Abdul Hasan Husaini says, they never want to return because in Afghanistan they are minority, in religion, ethnic and culture.

Sister, if you notice name of this Afghani, I think you must be know why he says "We are minority in Afghanistan".
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Ar-RaYYan
07-28-2009, 09:06 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
They never want to return because they are affraid.

Every year hundreds Afghanis come to Indonesia as ilegal comer, but they came not for seek asylum from Indonesian govt. They just transit then going further to their final destination, Australia or New Zealand. Unfortunately, many of the were arested by Indonesian police. They were jailed in imigration prison before Indonesian govt deportate them back to Afghanistan.

Except few Afghanis, they always make a resistance if Indonesian govt try to send them back, even in some cases they sewed their lips as a protest.

One Afghani, Abdul Hasan Husaini says, they never want to return because in Afghanistan they are minority, in religion, ethnic and culture.

Sister, if you notice name of this Afghani, I think you must be know why he says "We are minority in Afghanistan".
the name 'Abdul Hasan Husaini' doesnt ring a bell. care to explain why he says the afghans are minority in Afghanistan?
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ardianto
07-29-2009, 03:21 PM
Originally Posted by Ar-RaYYan
the name 'Abdul Hasan Husaini' doesnt ring a bell. care to explain why he says the afghans are minority in Afghanistan?
He also says "Now, no one ready to return. Taliban would take us when we back home because our faces were on TV, mass media".

Maybe 'servant of Hasan (and) Husain' (Abdul Hasan Husaini) doesn't means anything, but I think this is not a name of non-muslim. And why he affraid to Taliban and why he says "We are minority, in religion" ?.

But I'm not sure if all of Afghanis who leave their land are Shias.
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Thinker
07-29-2009, 03:33 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
They never want to return because they are affraid.
Every year hundreds Afghanis come to Indonesia as ilegal comer, but they came not for seek asylum from Indonesian govt. They just transit then going further to their final destination, Australia or New Zealand.

That’s interesting, why when they have landed in the largest Muslim country in the world do they want to leave to emigrate to live amongst the muskreen?
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ardianto
07-29-2009, 04:28 PM
Originally Posted by Thinker
That’s interesting, why when they have landed in the largest Muslim country in the world do they want to leave to emigrate to live amongst the muskreen?
They want to get a better wealth, and Indonesian is not a rich country.

This journey is arranged by some 'Agent', usually another Afghanis. The cost is US$ 4,000 - US$ 7,000 per person. They transit in Indonesia because they need some sailors who can drop them on Australia's coasts. Not on harbour, of course, because they are ilegal emigrant. And those sailors are Indonesians who have many experiences in dropping ilegal workers on Malaysia's coasts.

Almost all of Afghanis who jailed in Indonesia's imigration prison were caught on the sea, not on islands. And few Indonesians sailor are jailed in Australia's prison, regarding to this case.

There were few cases, their boat sunk in Indonesia's sea, and they died in these accidents.
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Thinker
07-29-2009, 10:11 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
They want to get a better wealth, and Indonesian is not a rich country.

This journey is arranged by some 'Agent', usually another Afghanis. The cost is US$ 4,000 - US$ 7,000 per person. They transit in Indonesia because they need some sailors who can drop them on Australia's coasts. Not on harbour, of course, because they are ilegal emigrant. And those sailors are Indonesians who have many experiences in dropping ilegal workers on Malaysia's coasts.

Almost all of Afghanis who jailed in Indonesia's imigration prison were caught on the sea, not on islands. And few Indonesians sailor are jailed in Australia's prison, regarding to this case.

There were few cases, their boat sunk in Indonesia's sea, and they died in these accidents.

Amazing . . . thank you for the explanation. I wonder if some members here are aware of how it is in the real world.
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ardianto
07-30-2009, 04:19 AM
Originally Posted by Thinker
Amazing . . . thank you for the explanation. I wonder if some members here are aware of how it is in the real world.
You are welcome.

But I forgot to an important fact, few of them are not Afghanis, but Iraqis.
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BlissfullyJaded
07-30-2009, 05:03 AM
:sl:

The desire to return home might be based on a few things... If, for example, they are Afghan and fled to Pakistan and are living a poverty stricken life, chances are high they will naturally hope to some day return when things are more peaceful. If they are leaving for America or elsewhere, where they will lead a stable life, then the desire to return to their home country might be influenced by their age. The younger they are while having left their country, the lesser the chances of them wanting to return, except maybe just to visit their native country. The younger ones will be able to live in a new country, because this is pretty much all they know and they just want to live their life. However, leaving at an older age while knowing what type of a life they led, especially if it was prosperous, is harder and would leave them constantly missing their country and all that they have left behind.

^ That is based on what I know, but I cannot find actual research to either support or reject it. I'll check laters inshaAllah. :)
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ardianto
07-30-2009, 05:09 AM
Originally Posted by Abdullah Q.
:sl:

I remember my friend,before he came here he was an excellent muslim but Takdir has changed him.
Dont blame the Takdir, brother.
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Thinker
07-30-2009, 10:15 AM
Originally Posted by ardianto
Dont blame the Takdir, brother.
Takdir, meaning divine decree or predestination

Is takdir an Indonesian word; what is the English translation; does Islam teach that Muslims believe in takdir?
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Ummu Sufyaan
07-30-2009, 10:20 AM
does Islam teach that Muslims believe in takdir?
indeed. it is one of the 6 pillars of faith.
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ardianto
07-30-2009, 04:21 PM
There are two reasons why people leave their home and become refugees.

First. Dangerous situation.
They must leave their home for save their lifes or the enemy would kill them. Refugees like this had no preparation before escaped, they must go suddenly, even they didn't brought anything. Usually they have a dream to return to their home because they never want to go but situation forced them to escape. That's why, some men in this people decide to join militia group and return to their land for fight against their enemy and try to taking back their land.

Second. Under oppression.
Actually, they were not in danger if they obey the oppressor, but of course, they want to get freedom. They have much preparation and they ran in planned escape. I found in many cases like this, they pay someone who can bring them out from their country. I am not sure if they never want to return. I think if they dont want to return, that because they feel comfort in their new place.



I have read some studies regarding to refugees who escape causes by dangerous situation. Many of them have psychological problem that causes by traumatic experiences. And they are in anger. If you give paper and pencil to their kids, those kids will draw battle scene. Even if you ask them "What do you want to be when you are growing older ?", those kids will answer "I want to be a soldier and kill my enemy !".

Refugees who escape causes by oppression also have psychological problem, but lighter.
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Thinker
07-31-2009, 10:03 AM
Originally Posted by ardianto
There are two reasons why people leave their home and become refugees.

First. Dangerous situation.
They must leave their home for save their lifes or the enemy would kill them. Refugees like this had no preparation before escaped, they must go suddenly, even they didn't brought anything. Usually they have a dream to return to their home because they never want to go but situation forced them to escape. That's why, some men in this people decide to join militia group and return to their land for fight against their enemy and try to taking back their land.

Second. Under oppression.
Actually, they were not in danger if they obey the oppressor, but of course, they want to get freedom. They have much preparation and they ran in planned escape. I found in many cases like this, they pay someone who can bring them out from their country. I am not sure if they never want to return. I think if they dont want to return, that because they feel comfort in their new place.

.
Three: Desire for better life
To live in a country which provides them with the opportunity to access to paid employment, education, medicine, safety, security and un-corrupt officials.

The question I would like answered, what percentage of the those entering the UK that call themselves refugees fall under category number 3.
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Detritavore
07-31-2009, 10:27 AM
Topic-starter:

I'm a refugee, from a war torn country.

And I'll tell you now, almost every 25+ year old I know who grew up in my motherland wants to go home! Desperately!
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ardianto
07-31-2009, 05:45 PM
Originally Posted by Thinker
Three: Desire for better life
To live in a country which provides them with the opportunity to access to paid employment, education, medicine, safety, security and un-corrupt officials.
Category no 3 are job seekers.
Maybe they are in danger or under oppression, but in low level.

I read again my post where I wrote about Afghani who says he cannot return because he affraid to Taliban. And I begin to realize, maybe he was lied because he needs a status as refugee to make him easy to go to Australia.

If I say refugees in category no 2 must pay to someone, that because I have read many stories about Vietnamese/Cambodians boat people in second wave, early 80's. Yes, they must pay for have a space in boat and get a help for leave their countries. However, after they leave the land and were on the sea, they must find the way by themselves.

But, those Afghanis are different. In interogation, they say "They (The Agent) say, they will deliver us to Australia, and we have pay for it". That's means they bought a 'Tour Package' from departure point to final destination. Of course, is hard to classify them as refugees, but the problem is, they always describe themselves as refugees not job seekers.
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Thinker
07-31-2009, 08:25 PM
Originally Posted by Detritavore
Topic-starter:

I'm a refugee, from a war torn country.

And I'll tell you now, almost every 25+ year old I know who grew up in my motherland wants to go home! Desperately!
Can I know which is your country?
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