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Uthman
08-07-2009, 12:08 PM
A big YouTube hit makes startling predictions about the Islamification of Europe over the next few decades and has been viewed more than 10 million times. But can you believe what it says?

This seven-and-a-half minute video "Muslim Demographics" uses slick graphics, punctuated with dramatic music, to make some surprising claims, asserting that much of Europe will be majority Muslim in just a few decades. It says that in the past two decades, 90% of all population growth in Europe has been Muslim immigration.

In France, it says 30% of those aged 20 and younger are Muslim, with the birth rate for Muslim families massively exceeding that across all families. It says France will be an Islamic Republic within 39 years.

In the UK it says the Muslim population has risen 30-fold since the beginning of the 1980s.

But are any of the video's statistics true?

Of the video's claims that 90% of Europe's population growth since 1990 is due Islamic immigration, only a fragment is true. Immigration is the main driver of population growth according to EU statistics and in some exceptional years, 90% of population growth has been down to net inward migration.

But that includes all immigrants coming into the EU, not just Muslims.

It is the claims made about individual countries that are most striking. The video says that a typical French family has 1.8 children but that French Muslim families have 8.1 children.

No source is given for this information and the French government doesn't collect statistics by religion. So it is impossible to say what the precise fertility rates among different religious groups in France are.

But no country on earth has such a high fertility rate and in Algeria and Morocco, the two nations which send the largest numbers of Muslim immigrants to France, the fertility rate is 2.38, according to the UN's 2008 figures.

In the Netherlands, according to the video, half of all newborns are Muslim, and in 15 years half the population will be Muslim.

But the Dutch office of statistics estimates that Muslims make up only 5% of the population. For Dutch Muslim women to produce half the nation's babies, they would have to be giving birth at at least 14 times the rate of their non-Muslim neighbours.

Is 25% of the Belgian population Muslim, as the video asserts? No. The Belgian office of statistics points to a 2008 study which suggests the real figure is just 6%.

The video also states that the Muslim population of the UK has grown 30-fold in the past 30 years. They get the figure by estimating that the British Muslim population has risen from 82,000 to 2.5 million.

The firm data is in the 2001 census, which counted close to 1.6 million Muslims in England and Wales. That number will have risen since 2001 so 2.5 million is not impossible. The 2011 census will be looked to for clarification.

However, according to Dr Andrew Hinde, a demographer at Southampton University, the 82,000 figure is a gross under-estimate. "If you take the 1981 census there was no question asked on religious belief," he says, "but if you take those born in Pakistan and Bangladesh as a minimum estimate of the number of Muslims in 1981, it's about 300,000."

That would mean the growth rate has been significantly slower than the video suggests.

But the video doesn't just rely on statistics, it also uses an official Government statement. It quotes it as saying: "The fall in German population can no longer be stopped. Its downward spiral is no longer reversible. It will be a Muslim state by the year 2050."

The statement in question was made by then vice-president of the Federal Statistics Office, Walter Radermacher, who is now chief statistician of the European Union. He says that while it is true he said Germany's population was in decline, the last part of the quote [in italics] is just an invention. He said nothing about Germany becoming a Muslim state.

"The quotation which reads as if the German government believed that Germany will become a Muslim state is simply not true," he says. "There is no source which can be quoted that the German government has published such an expression or opinion."

Inexact science


The video also claims the German government believes the number of Muslims in Europe will double to 104 million.

Mr Radermacher adds: "That is not true. The German government does not believe that the Muslim population will double in the next 40 or 50 years. There are no reliable sources that give a proof for that assumption."

Population projection is an inexact science. No-one knows how many Muslims will be living in Europe or anywhere else by 2050. The current trends suggest that by 2050 Europe will have a bigger proportion of Muslims, although nothing like the level suggested in the video.

But the big assumption here is current trends. Levels of immigration and fertility change over time.

It is certainly true that immigrant communities often have higher fertility rates but over time these usually fall into line with the indigenous population. This might not happen with Muslim immigrants. But nobody can know and that's why, according to Dr Hinde, it is so hard to guess the future.

"In the 1930s there were population projections made of the UK that by the end of the century the UK population would be 20 million. Well, it turned out to be 50 million.

"That's how far out you can get when you're moving 40 or 50 years down the line and not taking into account the uncertainty."

MUSLIM DEMOGRAPHICS VIDEO

-Watched 10 million times
-Authorship unknown
-Posted by inactive account "friendofmuslim"

More or Less is on BBC Radio 4 on Fridays at 1330 BST
Listen to the programme here

More or Less is produced in association with the Open University.

Source
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Uthman
08-07-2009, 12:08 PM
Anyone seen this video?
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aamirsaab
08-07-2009, 03:24 PM
Boy howdy, pat condel is gonna be vexed!

I have yet to see the video actually.
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crayon
08-07-2009, 03:52 PM
Everyone must have seen this video, it was posted online everywhere.. responding to those posting it got very dull, very fast.

Thank you very much for posting up this article, brother!
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Strzelecki
08-07-2009, 04:59 PM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
Boy howdy, pat condel is gonna be vexed!

I have yet to see the video actually.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU

I saw it a while ago.
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جوري
08-07-2009, 06:38 PM
whether true or false, I am honestly tickled it bothers them so.. aside from that.. Europe insha'Allah, shall become Muslim whether they like it or not, it was so prophesied...

talk is cheap.. people talk all the time it means nothing.. I started ignoring it after a while.. I remember a story a friend of mine told me once about a British soldier and a local who was to guide him around.. well the brit was riding the horse and the local kept cursing him to every tom, dick and harry because he was so vexed, and the other guy understood what he was saying, but it didn't bother him since at the end of the day he got to ride the horse all the way around while all the other guy can do is ***** and moan about it...

moral of the story goes talk is cheap.. if they want to wage war then it will be their loss as also so tells us the Quran:

8: 36 Behold, those who are bent on denying the truth are spending their riches in order to turn others away from the path of God; and they will go on spending them until they become [a source of] intense regret for them; and then they will be overcome! And those who [until their death] have denied the truth shall be gathered unto hell.


so let them seethe in their hatred, their backtalk, their complaints and their plans to go on destroying us!

:w:
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Cabdullahi
08-07-2009, 08:26 PM
Thats the profile comment

''Islam will overwhelm Christendom unless Christians recognize the demographic realities, begin reproducing again, and share the gospel with Muslims.''

ok muslims are expanding what to do to counteract the happenings
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GuestFellow
08-07-2009, 08:46 PM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
Boy howdy, pat condel is gonna be vexed!
;D I would love to see Fat Condel throw a tantrum.

Hmmm

I'm not sure if that video is entirely accurate. I guess I have to wait and see what happens in the future...it is going to be a long wait. =/

I get the feeling non-Muslims are not going to be pleased to see this video. :l
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czgibson
08-07-2009, 08:59 PM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by Guestfellow
I get the feeling non-Muslims are not going to be pleased to see this video. :l
Seeing as it's based on paranoia and misinformation, I for one am not hugely bothered by it.

It seems to have been produced by some Christian missionary group.

Interesting that the poster called themself "friendofmuslim" - that's clearly meant to be ironic...

Peace
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جوري
08-07-2009, 09:13 PM
Originally Posted by Abdullahii
Thats the profile comment

''Islam will overwhelm Christendom unless Christians recognize the demographic realities, begin reproducing again, and share the gospel with Muslims.''

ok muslims are expanding what to do to counteract the happenings

I feel that when they share their gospel, they become really desperate, for they begin to sound out their delusions of illogical mathematics out loud and it really backfires as they can't sustain that conversation without the receiver being utterly baffled and then they get too emotional or threatening and I have been the subject of several 'Have you been saved' attempts in my day!

and well they love to foster homosexuality and seeing women to be the exact same physically as men not merely as an equal, how could they possibly blame muslims for their own misgivings?.. the way I see it now, aside from programs like the stealth crusade where they actively malign and spread misinformation about Islam and go to Muslim countries to preach under the guise of other professions, is actual active war with Muslims, you know, not the type where every other day, it is a new event to fuel hatred, and public disdain but get off the couch and engage in actual battle in an attempt to eleminate us.. and to be honest I think that option if better because then maybe the rest of the Muslims will wake up and see this for what it really is.. Not a war against 'terrorism' or the afghan terrorists, or the pali 'terrorists' or the chechen 'terrorists' or Iraqi terrorists, rather for what it actually is and plain to see a war against Islam as has always been.. perhaps then this would be the impetus to unite us from China to the U.S and put an end to the BS once and for all!

my two cents

:w:
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Cabdullahi
08-08-2009, 01:23 AM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
I feel that when they share their gospel, they become really desperate, for they begin to sound out their delusions of illogical mathematics out loud and it really backfires as they can't sustain that conversation without the receiver being utterly baffled and then they get too emotional or threatening and I have been the subject of several 'Have you been saved' attempts in my day!

and well they love to foster homosexuality and seeing women to be the exact same physically as men not merely as an equal, how could they possibly blame muslims for their own misgivings?.. the way I see it now, aside from programs like the stealth crusade where they actively malign and spread misinformation about Islam and go to Muslim countries to preach under the guise of other professions, is actual active war with Muslims, you know, not the type where every other day, it is a new event to fuel hatred, and public disdain but get off the couch and engage in actual battle in an attempt to eleminate us.. and to be honest I think that option if better because then maybe the rest of the Muslims will wake up and see this for what it really is.. Not a war against 'terrorism' or the afghan terrorists, or the pali 'terrorists' or the chechen 'terrorists' or Iraqi terrorists, rather for what it actually is and plain to see a war against Islam as has always been.. perhaps then this would be the impetus to unite us from China to the U.S and put an end to the BS once and for all!

my two cents

:w:
A good example of that is the video you posted awhile ago about the bible thumper persuading some small kids

Palestinian families are big and the reproduction rate is high despite the massacres in Palestine unlike illegal Israel which has a lower reproduction rate soon it(Israel) will be no more

1.8% (2007) Israel
2.9% (2008) Palestine

''According to research culled by Haaretz, between the mid-1980s and 2000, the birthrate in the Muslim sector was stable at 4.6-4.7 children per woman; After 2001 a gradual decline became evident, reaching 4.0 children per woman in 2005. By point of comparison, in 2005 there was a stable birthrate of 2.6-2.7 children among the Jewish population.[5] Note: www.data.un.org lists different birth rate amounts for 2007'' (http://data.un.org/Data.aspx?d=SOWC&f=inID%3A75)

we beat them by 32.5 percent thats almost a third its not bad :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel
http://www.escwa.un.org/popin/indica...tine/main.html
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AntiKarateKid
08-08-2009, 05:48 AM
Is it me or is there nothing wrong with Muslims having higher fertility? It isn't our fault that we don't spit on lawful intercourse unlike some other self loathing and self flagellating religions.
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barrio79
08-08-2009, 05:52 AM
Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
Is it me or is there nothing wrong with Muslims having higher fertility? It isn't our fault that we don't spit on lawful intercourse unlike some other self loathing and self flagellating religions.
Hi karate - Let us into the secret and name a few of those self loathing and self flagellating religions so that we may check them out and see if its enjoyable or not . We may want to join one if they stack up allright.
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AntiKarateKid
08-08-2009, 06:42 AM
Originally Posted by barrio79
Hi karate - Let us into the secret and name a few of those self loathing and self flagellating religions so that we may check them out and see if its enjoyable or not . We may want to join one if they stack up allright.
For a start, sects of priests being unable to marry and have intercourse as if that degrades their spiritual "prowess". We all remember the puritans and their ridiculous views. And checking around the net, there many Christians view the act with suspicion.
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Uthman
08-08-2009, 12:54 PM
In light of all this, how accurate is this article?
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