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Proud of Islam
08-09-2009, 08:17 PM
Assalam Alikom sisters & brothers..


All of us know that the government of USA banned the sale, manufacture, and distribution of alcohol between 1920 and 1933 because of the 18th Amendment to the United States Constitution.
The first section of the amendment reads:
“After one year from the ratification of this article the manufacture, sale, or transportation of intoxicating liquors within, the importation thereof into, or the exportation thereof from the United States and all territory subject to the jurisdiction thereof for beverage purposes is hereby prohibited.”

It paid millions of dollars to advertise against it; it tried different types of punishments but the problem became worse! More people died; crimes increased and too many people simply refused to abide by the law; for example, people in cafes used to put alcohol instead of coffee and it was then sold on the black market. The innovation of people to get what they want is evident in the resourcefulness used to obtain alcohol during prohibition. This era saw the rise of the speakeasy, home distiller, bootlegger, rum-runner and many of the gangster myths associated with it.

People continued to drink and there was even a rise in the number of women who drank during the era, which helped change the general perception of what it meant to be “respectable” (a term prohibitionists often used to refer to non-drinkers).
It was also a logistical nightmare in terms of enforcement. There were never enough law enforcement officers to control all of the illegal operations associated with prohibition and many of the officials were themselves corrupt.
Therefore, since this experiment had failed, the prohibition was repealed in 1933 as the result of the public’s annoyance of the law and the ever-increasing enforcement nightmare. And there are some celebrations on the anniversary of what is referred to as Repeal Day on December 5th of each year!

(http://www.helium.com/items/922194-t...of-prohibition
&
http://cocktails.about.com/od/history/a/prohibition.htm)


This was the case of other governments as well..
However, what was the case in Islam?


Allah said:
"O you who believe! Intoxicants and games of chance and idols and divining arrows are, infamy of Satan's handiwork. Leave it aside in order that you may succeed. Satan seeks only to cast among you enmity and hatred by means of intoxicants and games of chance, and turn you from remembering Allah and from prayer. Will you then desist? [Holy Quran 5:90=91]

When the Holy Prophet finished his recitation the group of faithful listeners replied to this Quranic Revelation with determined voices: "we have desisted Allah, we have desisted O our God"…
The Muslim citizens of Madinah immediately began to spill their stocks of wine into the sand and streets; so that the wine ran through the streets of Madinah.. There were rivers of alcohol as if the sky rained it! Individuals who up till that moment were enjoying guiltlessly a glass of wine, quickly emptied their cups on the ground and spit out the alcohol from their mouths. They rushed to make ablutions in order to purify themselves.
The news spread fast from house to house and as the call, "Surely Al-Chamber (alcohol) has been forbidden" echoed through the corners of the blessed city, large clay pots and skins full of fermented date-juice, honey and grape were broken or emptied in every house till the streets of Madina ran with little rivers of Khamr (alcohol) as a testimony to the greatest anti-alcoholism movement that humanity has ever witnessed.


The lesson to be learned is that you cannot legislate morals. The only way to eradicate the evil of intoxicants is through religious conviction. Religion has to speak out vehemently and unequivocally against this evil.
ISLAM is the only religion, which has taken a firm stand against this evil. A true believer will not seek to break the Divine Command, because he is aware that God sees all and God knows all.
The only solution to this pressing social problem lies in Islam. In the knowledge and fear of God's wrath and in prayer, This is the only path of salvation. Fear of God's displeasure and in the spiritual help, which comes through prayer.
(http://www.themodernreligion.com/mis...ohol_about.htm)

How did people immediately accept this prohibition despite the fact that drinking and sale of alcohol was so common and alcohol shops and bars were open 24 hours a day?
This was because Islam built a strong base in their souls.. Islam built a strong feeling of faith.. Islam built a strong feeling of loving Allah and knowing that every command is for the behalf of humanity..

The Islamic command has been succeeded till nowadays.. Of course there are Muslims who drink, but they are few and all of them know that they are committing a big sin.. And if we compare the number of Muslim drinkers with non-Muslim drinkers, the difference will be considerable.. When I talk about the effect of Islam in Muslims' souls, I mean the souls of the true Muslims who are the real believers..


Okey, why does governmental legislation fail to legislate morals?

Let me here mention the following conversation which was between Ibrahim bin Adham (a Muslim scholar) and a young boy (Ibn Qudamah Al-Maqdisi mentioned it in his book Kitab At-Tawwabeen, page 285) :

The young boy: O Abu Ishaq, I am wronging my soul, advise me with something that’ll hold me back from disobeying Allah and breathe new life into my heart.
Ibrahim Bin Adham: Alright. If you take five things from me and fulfill them, you can disobey Allah the Almighty all you want and no harm will come to you.
The young boy: (Interested) Ok, tell me.
Ibrahim Bin Adham: One, if you want to do other than what Allah wants you to do, then do not eat the food that He provides you.
The young boy: Then where am I supposed to eat from when all the food on earth is from Allah?
Ibrahim Bin Adham: Dear lad, is it right that you eat the food Allah the Almighty has given you and then go off and disobey Him?
The young boy: No it is not right. What is the second?
Ibrahim Bin Adham: Two, if you want to live life to the fullest in disobedience of Allah, then don’t live on His land.
The young boy: That’s harder than the first. Where shall I live when all that is in the east and west the belongs to Him?
Ibrahim Bin Adham: Dear boy, is it right that you eat His food and live in His land, yet still insist on turning your back when He calls you?
The young boy: No it’s not right. What’s the third?
Ibrahim Bin Adham: If you want to disobey Allah, yet still eating the food He gave you and still living in His land, then find a place where He can’t see you.
The young boy: O Abu Ishaq, how can that be so when Allah is the All-Seeing and All-Knowing of all that happens, even what the heart whispers?
Ibrahim Bin Adham: Dear boy, is it right that you eat His food and live in His land and disobey Him while He watches you and what you are exposing?
The young boy:No it’s not right. What’s the fourth?
Ibrahim Bin Adham: When the angel of death comes to snatch your soul, tell him to grant you a day so that you can sincerely ask Allah for forgiveness and change your life.
The young boy: He won’t grant me that.
Ibrahim Bin Adham: Dear boy, if you find yourself helpless to put off death for just one day and you know that it cannot be delayed by your wishes, how do you expect to win?
The young boy: (With a sigh) What is the fifth?
Ibrahim Bin Adham: When the gatekeepers of Hell will come to drag you away on your face to Hellfire refuse to go with them.
The young boy: Nothing will stop them.
Ibrahim Bin Adham: How do you expect to be saved then?
The young boy: Enough, Abu Ishaq. (And he lowers his head crying). O Allah, forgive me for my transgression.

Epilogue: The young boy went on to become a student of Ibrahim Bin Adham. He repented to Allah sincerely and lived an upright life with his teacher until death parted the two.

(http://islamgreatreligion.wordpress....disobey-allah/)


For me, I think that the third & forth points are the most ones that keep us away from committing sins..
If we REALLy feel that Allah swt is seeing us all the time, we should be afraid of disobeying Him.. We usually can't do some bad actions in front of other people; however, The God of these people, the God of all of us is seeing us, why we don't think about Him when we stay alone?

Actually this feeling makes Islam better than any governmental law because Muslims have self-monitor.. I mean if the only deterrence is the governmental legislation, a person can act illegally when s/he is covered and surely no one will catch him, right?
But does this case exist if the person is a true Muslim & knows that Allah is seeing?


And about the fourth point in the conversation, we know that we'll be judged after the death; we know that their will be punishments & rewards; we know that there will be Heaven & Hell; we know that death time cannot be delayed even for a single second; and since we don't know when our death will be, we don't want to die while committing a sin!
When I talked about alcohol, it was just an example of the fact that Islam values in people's souls are better than any governmental law.. I usually see many people driving in streets reduce the speed just in the radars places, but they exceed the allowed limit once they skip the radar! But, can governments make forever radars for people all the time in all places?
Muslims feel that Allah is The Most Great One Who has to be obeyed all the time. For example, during the holy month of Ramadhan, it's IMPOSSIBLE that we think to drink or eat covertly because then we are covering ourselves just from people, but what is the benefit since we are not fasting for people; we are fasting for Allah Who is The All-Seeing and All-knowing?


If we think about millions of people in Makkah or any other mosque, we can be amazed by the quick arrangements of people lines once the prayer call (Adhan and then Eqama) is announced..

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Standing in arranged lines once the call of each prayer is said, is like obeying the Islamic rules once we know them.. This will never ever be achieved perfectly by governmental laws only; we have to be true Muslims to build a perfect society..


Laws are different in different countries, but all people are human being! Therefore, we need something that suits all the human being and gives the right way of life in all countries; which is Islam..

True Asian, American, European, African and Australian Muslims will not drink alcohol either their countries prohibit it or not.. This applies for all other sins..

Wassalam Alikom..


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Uthman
08-12-2009, 05:00 PM
:threadapp
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Gubbleknucker
08-14-2009, 12:39 PM
One good thing came out of prohibition: Root beer! It's delicious!
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Proud of Islam
08-15-2009, 09:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gubbleknucker
One good thing came out of prohibition: Root beer! It's delicious!
So from the long & high-level topic, what impressed you is the lowest-down uncleanness!


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Gubbleknucker
08-15-2009, 09:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Proud of Islam
So from the long & high-level topic, what impressed you is the lowest-down uncleanness!
Actually, none of it impressed me, but you don't have to go out and say it like that :heated::nervous:

On the topic of alcohol control: I believe that the penalties for reckless behavior should be more severe.

For example, drunk drivers kill people, but so do people who talk on their cell phone while driving.

Does this mean that cell phones should be banned outright?
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
08-16-2009, 05:24 PM
Alcohol has more long term damage...as compared to cell phones. Cells phones aren't intoxicants..
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Zafran
08-16-2009, 05:47 PM
Does this mean that cell phones should be banned outright?
salaam

It is against the law in the UK of using the mobile phone whilst driving because of the same reason - It doesnt create any other harm to society unlike alcohol which doesnt just kill people - people get raped, It increases crime, health and people get into fights - its clearly far more dangerous then mobile phones clearly.

Alcohol is a demerit good like drigs or cigs.
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Follower
08-18-2009, 07:32 PM
Cells phones aren't intoxicants[/I]

Cell phone use has in fact been shown to distract the driver's attention from the road and driving. The ban is just while driving- is your phone call more important then the possibility of striking someone down because of yur inattention?

People get raped and into fights when there are no drugs or alcohol involved.

Something that should be banned are cigarettes- proven killers and cause of lung disease. Banning substances only push them underground. In Islamic countries the permits to buy and sell alcohol can be obtained on the black market.

Should the government legislate morals?

I believe for example it is horribly immoral to have more then one wive. I also believe that you should have only as many children as you can take care of - welfare because you have too many children is immoral.

Abortion I would ask for the governemnt to outlaw abortions.

I know alot of people would disagree with me.
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KAding
08-18-2009, 07:37 PM
I am not in favor of bans just because a small percentage abuse a certain substance. I also disagree that 'intoxication' is wrong. It is not.

But the original post makes a good point! There is little point banning things if there isn't more less a social consensus on the ban. If there isn't there is a good chance it will simply fail.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
08-18-2009, 11:52 PM
I believe for example it is horribly immoral to have more then one wive.
I believe it's correct...I mean if a girl you knew couldn't find a husband...would you rather she be property or settle with marrying someone with a wife already?...How would u do justice to someone who wants to marry but cannot find a husband, God forbid.

Its 100 times better than being married and having a mistress/concubine on the side...

Anyway that's not even the issue at hand..
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Predator
12-13-2009, 09:05 PM
I believe for example it is horribly immoral to have more then one wive.
How is that Immoral ? Polygamy is a natural act . I dont see anything immoral if both women are treated equally and are both happy with the husband.

I would say legalisation of Un-natural acts like Homosexuality and flesh trade are immoral .

And speaking about polygamy , Quran is the only book on the face of the earth that tell you marry only one

Surah An-Nisa 4:3
Marry women of your choice in 2s,3s or 4s and if you cant do justice marry one ONE

There is a surplus of women in western countries like USA , England , Russia, Germany and this is a solution to the problem

There is a type of man that doesnt mind taking extra responsibilty and there is a type of woman that doesnt mind sharing a husband , but the laws in the western countries are going to get in their way not going to allow thatand They dont mind legalising gays , lesbians and legalising relations outside marriage .That is double standards
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titus
12-14-2009, 10:19 AM
So from the long & high-level topic, what impressed you is the lowest-down uncleanness!
You do realize that root beer is not an alcoholic beverage, right?

The lesson to be learned is that you cannot legislate morals.
So under Sharia it is legal to make, manufacture and sell alcohol? Or what exactly is meant by that statement?

There is a surplus of women in western countries like USA , England , Russia, Germany and this is a solution to the problem
Worldwide there are more males than females, and in the countries you mentioned when it comes to those aged 15-64 the men outnumber the women. It is only in old age that the ratio reverses as women tend to live longer than men.

So let's pick a country in which men outnumber women such as, say, Angola or Turkey. The solution to that problem would be allowing women more than one husband!

Another example of government laws not succeeding?
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Supreme
12-14-2009, 05:13 PM
Wait, what does this have to do with comparitive religion? Am I missing something here?
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abu salaahudeen
12-14-2009, 07:09 PM
what is wrong with having more than 1 wife?
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Predator
12-14-2009, 07:22 PM
Worldwide there are more males than females, and in the countries you mentioned when it comes to those aged 15-64 the men outnumber the women. It is only in old age that the ratio reverses as women tend to live longer than men.

Ahem
https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/us.html
15-64 years: 67% (male 102,665,043/female 103,129,321)

Dont forget there are an estimated 20 million gays in US + more than 90% of the prison population is men , that means more women cant get husbands

And in russia too the population is higher

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/rs.html

15-64 years: 71.5% (male 48,004,040/female 52,142,313)

You were right about UK and Germany not having have more women than men in 15-64 age but then again there are still some more countries like Greece and Philipines that have more women than men in that age.
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titus
12-14-2009, 07:36 PM
Dont forget there are an estimated 20 million gays in US
And lesbian.

Ahem
https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/us.html
15-64 years: 67% (male 102,665,043/female 103,129,321)
I stand corrected.

Still, in the majority male populations why would it not be acceptable to have more than one husband? Would the same arguments still not apply?

Wait, what does this have to do with comparitive religion?
My guess would be the argument that Islam is superior because it is a complete system including political and the prohibition of alcohol is used as an example of that.
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Supreme
12-14-2009, 08:43 PM
Wait, there are twenty million homosexuals in America? Is that true? It sounds far too big.

My guess would be the argument that Islam is superior because it is a complete system including political and the prohibition of alcohol is used as an example of that.
Then it is still related to Islam and therefore should be located in an Islamic board, not in the comparitive religion section. You wouldn't think such reasoning would be complex...
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Ramadhan
12-15-2009, 03:28 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by titus
Still, in the majority male populations why would it not be acceptable to have more than one husband? Would the same arguments still not apply?
Not all region in the world is within an hour trip from Mass General where you can get DNA testing.
How do you determine which father is for which child if a woman has 4 husbands?

Do you see now the superiority of islamic syar'i?
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titus
12-15-2009, 08:05 AM
If this whole thing hinges on DNA testing then that part is easy. You can buy a kit at a drugstore and mail it in. Or maybe just make it so that only those with the means to have a DNA test can have multiple spouses.
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Ramadhan
12-15-2009, 08:18 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by titus
If this whole thing hinges on DNA testing then that part is easy. You can buy a kit at a drugstore and mail it in. Or maybe just make it so that only those with the means to have a DNA test can have multiple spouses.

Would a women with three husbands in an underdeveloped region somewhere in Africa be able to buy a kit a drugstore and mail it in?

And if only those with the means to have a DNA test can have multiple husbands, would this not constitute a blatant discrimination policy based on economic wealth?
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titus
12-15-2009, 08:28 AM
And if only those with the means to have a DNA test can have multiple husbands, would this not constitute a blatant discrimination policy based on economic wealth?
Not any more than saying that a man can only marry more than one woman only if he can afford it. Do you think a poor man can have more than one wife if he can't afford to feed and clothe them? Yet a rich man can have three or four? Would you call that discrimination?

Seriously, in the majority of the world a kit they sell at drugstores easily solves this problem.
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Ramadhan
12-15-2009, 08:40 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by titus
Not any more than saying that a man can only marry more than one woman only if he can afford it. Do you think a poor man can have more than one wife if he can't afford to feed and clothe them? Yet a rich man can have three or four? Would you call that discrimination?
Who says syar'i prohibits a poor man to marry more than one woman?
Quit getting your info from anti-Islam sources.

Seriously, in the majority of the world a kit they sell at drugstores easily solves this problem.
Wow.
The world is not North America and Europe.
I challenge you to go to any drug store in China or India or Indonesia or Bangladesh or Pakistan (where collectively more than half the world's population live) and ask to buy a DNA testing kit and see how easy it is.
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Predator
12-15-2009, 06:28 PM
Do you think a poor man can have more than one wife if he can't afford to feed and clothe them? Yet a rich man can have three or four? Would you call that discrimination?
No its more like that if a man ( whether rich or poor) cant treat both wives equally , then he must marry only one .
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Predator
12-15-2009, 09:33 PM
I also believe that you should have only as many children as you can take care of - welfare because you have too many children is immoral.
Having as many children as you can take care of is correct .

But What is "immoral" about having too many children ?
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Muezzin
12-15-2009, 10:11 PM
Question - What has the prohibition of alchol got to do with:

a) Cellular phones

or

b) Polygamy

or

c) Homosexuality

?

Answer - nothing really. Please return to the topic at hand. There are existing threads in which members can discuss subjects a) through c).
Reply

titus
12-16-2009, 02:43 AM
I thought the topic was how an Islamic government was superior, and that the ban of alcohol was simply an example.

If the topic is solely about the ban of alcohol, then I want to ask what about non-Muslims in a Muslim country. If their religion does not ban alcohol are they allowed to make, sell and drink it?
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Ramadhan
12-16-2009, 04:38 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by titus
If the topic is solely about the ban of alcohol, then I want to ask what about non-Muslims in a Muslim country. If their religion does not ban alcohol are they allowed to make, sell and drink it?
Islamic Syari'ah binds only muslims, so it's up to those non-muslims if they want to make, sell and drink alcohol.
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Predator
12-16-2009, 08:28 PM
If the topic is solely about the ban of alcohol, then I want to ask what about non-Muslims in a Muslim country
A Countries like Saudi Arabia which follows the Shariah law strictlly does not allow alcohol to be brought into the country , let alone sold , They are seized and disposed of at the airport itself . And if someone manages to smuggle it in they face a prison term and then deportation
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Supreme
12-16-2009, 08:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Airforce
A Countries like Saudi Arabia which follows the Shariah law strictlly does not allow alcohol to be brought into the country , let alone sold , They are seized and disposed of at the airport itself . And if someone manages to smuggle it in they face a prison term and then deportation
There are scarce places in Saudi Arabia where one can buy alcohol, if memory serves.
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Predator
12-16-2009, 08:51 PM
There are scarce places in Saudi Arabia where one can buy alcohol, if memory serves.
Its being illegal done and they would be trouble in if they get caught . Not like malaysia which has 2 sets of rules and judicials , one for muslims and another for non-muslims and non-muslims can get away
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Follower
12-23-2009, 03:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Airforce
How is that Immoral ? Polygamy is a natural act . I dont see anything immoral if both women are treated equally and are both happy with the husband.

I would say legalisation of Un-natural acts like Homosexuality and flesh trade are immoral .

And speaking about polygamy , Quran is the only book on the face of the earth that tell you marry only one

Surah An-Nisa 4:3
Marry women of your choice in 2s,3s or 4s and if you cant do justice marry one ONE

Genesis 2
24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

1 Timothy 3
12A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.

Titus 1
6An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient

The Holy Bible is filled with examples of non-monogamous relationships that had very bad and sad results.
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Predator
12-23-2009, 12:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
Genesis 2
24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

1 Timothy 3
12A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.

The Holy Bible is filled with examples of non-monogamous relationships that had very bad and sad results.

Exodus 21:10 >> If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights.

A man can thus marry an infinite amount of women without any limits to how many he can marry.


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