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Uthman
08-14-2009, 07:39 AM
Jim Fitzpatrick, a Government minister, has publicly condemned the Muslim tradition of separating men and women at weddings.

The farming minister and his wife walked out of the marriage ceremony of a constituent after discovering they would have to sit in separate rooms.

He said the gender segregation was a sign of increasing radicalisation and was damaging to social cohesion.

However, Muslim leaders insist the custom is traditional at Islamic weddings as well as in mosques, and expressed surprise that Mr Fitzpatrick, a third of whose east London constituents are Muslims, was unaware of the fact.

It was suggested that the Labour MP was trying to appeal to white voters who may fear divided communities.

His comments echo the row triggered three years ago when Jack Straw, now the justice secretary, called Muslim face veils a “visible statement of separation and difference” and called for women to remove them during surgeries in his Blackburn constituency.

Sir Iqbal Sacranie, a founding member of the Muslim Council of Britain, said: “I think in the interest of cohesion it would be better if Mr Fitzpatrick established more contact with the Muslim community.

“It shows a lack of interest on the part of the MP to engage with people with different backgrounds and sadly it reflects badly on him.

“If he had a little bit of knowledge he would have found it was quite normal and nothing unusual for them to enjoy the celebration in this way.

“There are some who prefer segregated events and some where they are joined together. We live in a society where we need to respect all traditions.”

George Galloway, the Respect MP for Bethnal Green and Bow who will contest the new Poplar and Limehouse constituency against Mr Fitzgerald at the election, said: “If he doesn’t wish to attend an Islamic wedding and observe the religious customs preferred by the bride and groom, he should not go rather than insult them for perceived political gain.

“I am absolutely amazed and astonished that a Government minister with a substantial Muslim minority in his constituency should have decided to give such a gratuitous insult to so many Muslims.”

Tim Archer, who will stand for the Conservatives locally, said: “I can’t help but feel he’s playing a certain race card to save his skin at the next election. I think it’s a desperate strategy.”

Ghayasuddin Siddiqui, a director of the Muslim Institute, a leading think tank, added: “He shouldn’t have been surprised, or perhaps he didn’t read the invitation card properly.

“But he’s going to annoy a number of people in his constituency.”

Mr Fitzpatrick, a former fireman, has represented Poplar and Canning Town since 1997 and served as a junior transport minister, London minister and as Post Office minister.

Most of his constituency is in Tower Hamlets, where an estimated 35 per cent of the residents are Bangladeshi Muslims, and he says he regularly attends Islamic weddings where men and women mix freely.

On Sunday he and his wife Sheila, a GP, were invited to a wedding where they found male and female guests were seated in separate rooms, and promptly walked out. The event was held at the London Muslim Centre, next door to the prominent East London Mosque in Whitechapel.

The minister later told his local newspaper: “It’s a disappointment. We are trying to build social cohesion in a community but this is not the way forward.”

He told The Daily Telegraph: “My wife and I go to weddings to celebrate the occasion jointly. If we are welcome as a couple we go as a couple and if not it is our right to say we don’t want to do that.

“I’m not pandering to any minority opinion.”

Mr Fitzpatrick claimed the invitation to the wedding, of a couple he did not know personally but who were related to a friend of his, did not make it clear that the event would be segregated.

He said he had only ever once encountered a similar situation at the centre, and had left that wedding as well.

The minister blamed the policy on the Islamic Forum of Europe, a hardline group based at the East London Mosque.

He said: "The segregation of men and women didn't used to be as much of a strong feature.

"We've been attending Muslim weddings together for years but only recently has this strict line been taken.

"But it is an indication of the stricter application of rules that is taking place that didn't exist before."

"I think the stranglehold influence of the IFE is present more than ever before."

However, the mosque insisted that men and women have been kept apart at weddings in the centre since 2004.

The policy is traditional at Muslim marriages, as it is in mosques, as an illustration of the importance the religion places on modesty.

A spokesman said: “Segregated weddings have always been popular in the Muslim community; the London Muslim Centre has facilitated them for over five years. It is part of the attraction for Muslim families so they can celebrate their happy day in a religious atmosphere, a custom which is also found in other religious traditions represented in Britain.

“We have always allowed non-Muslim guests to be seated together without segregation, but this is entirely at the discretion of the families who have hired the halls.”

Syed Ahmed, a spokesman for the IFE, said his organisation had nothing to do with the wedding policy.

He said: "It is a bit confusing. If he has got a problem then he should take it up with the relevant person who invited him.”

Source
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ardianto
08-14-2009, 09:04 AM
I want to tell Mr.Fitzpatrick. "If you sit with other males in a room and your wife sit with other females in another room, that is not wrong. But if you sit with many females in a room and your wife sit with many males in another room, that is wrong".
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Ummu Sufyaan
08-14-2009, 09:16 AM
what a joke.
lol....just lol :uuh:
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aamirsaab
08-14-2009, 10:18 AM
:sl:
See, if he complained about the slow food, I'd agree with him. But to walk out and then complain about segregation and then linking that to radicalisation, he's just an ungrateful jerk.

I feel sorry for the bride and groom though, since Mr Fitzpatrick basically ruined it for them.
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GuestFellow
08-14-2009, 10:26 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Uthmān
He said the gender segregation was a sign of increasing radicalisation and was damaging to social cohesion.
O_o

This is clearly a case of xenophobia. If that happened in my wedding, I would give him a good beating.
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Muezzin
08-14-2009, 03:24 PM
Way to alienate your registered voters, Jimmy.
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Zafran
08-14-2009, 04:05 PM
salaam

Uthman man where you getting these stories from lol.

peace

Muslim weddings have practiced segregation for years - many muslims practice this its so common its unreal and dates way before 2004.
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aadil77
08-14-2009, 05:09 PM
you know what, I dont think this was even a proper gender seperation wedding it was probably just men on one side of the hall and women on the other

edit: might have been a proper one, I think he was just used to goin to pakistani weddings
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AntiKarateKid
08-14-2009, 06:30 PM
Does he want to unsegregate bathrooms also? What a pandering retard. Modesty doesn't end at a wedding.
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mahfuja
08-14-2009, 07:15 PM
Salaam

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...ng-segregation

"Jim Fitzpatrick, the minister for food, farming and environment, left a constituent's wedding at the London Muslim Centre, next door to and run by the East London mosque in Whitechapel, after being told that male and female guests were to be segregated.

Fitzpatrick said it was "strange" he could not sit with his GP wife Sheila at the ceremony on Sunday. "We've been attending [Muslim] weddings together for years but only recently has this strict line been taken. We left so as not to cause offence," he said.

But the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) accused the minister of turning a private matter for the families concerned into a political issue."

Some things we can do insha'Allah:

1) Contact Fitzpatrick via phone:

Tel: 020 7219 5085/6215 Fax: 020 7219 2776

(2) Write to the him:
http://www.writetothem.com/write?who...3DMP%26meta%3D

(3) A poll: WAS Government minister Jim Fitzpatrick right to walk out of a Muslim wedding because he was segregated from his wife? GIVE YOUR VIEW!
http://www.eastlondonadvertiser.co.u...t/default.aspx

JazakumAllah Khair

Walaikumsalaam
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Far7an
08-14-2009, 08:58 PM
Tell the truth Jimmy, you couldn't handle a little mirchi?
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Peterwf
08-14-2009, 09:29 PM
The man is an idiot, how he thinks he is worthy of being an MP I don't know.
Where has he been all his life, segregation if the norm in many religious meetings (Islamic, Jewish and some christian).
I hope he does not get elected next time around.
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The_Prince
08-14-2009, 11:26 PM
seriously, only a piece of CRAP can come out and speak against a wedding you were invited to, this is one of the biggest no no's in all cultures and society, that you dont go out and speak against the wedding even if you werent happy with how it was and didnt like it etc.
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Zafran
08-15-2009, 12:02 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
you know what, I dont think this was even a proper gender seperation wedding it was probably just men on one side of the hall and women on the other

edit: might have been a proper one, I think he was just used to goin to pakistani weddings
Salaam

Most Pakistanis weddings are segregated.

peace
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
08-15-2009, 01:52 AM
What a noob...and a nutter lol. Definitely sounds desperate!
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aadil77
08-15-2009, 06:56 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zafran
Salaam

Most Pakistanis weddings are segregated.

peace
in what way brother? men on one side and women on the other, both sides gazin across? then you have the bride and groom sitting on a unsegragated sofa on a stage for everyone to look at

Honestly bro I've never heard of one, I'll be going to a segregated memon/gujji wedding today that will be the first hopefully 'islamic' wedding i'll be goin to
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Malaikah
08-15-2009, 10:33 AM
Segregated weddings rock because it means that 1. the women can remove their hijabs and get all dressed up and 2. we can dance!!!

Maybe this intolerant bigot doesn't realise that segregation makes a wedding much more entertaining. Otherwise, to have a halal mixed wedding we wouldn't be able to dress up or dance! It would pretty much be some kind of dinner party...
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Uthman
08-15-2009, 12:09 PM
The Muslim wedding, British manners and the Minister who walked out.

Politics.co.uk carries this report on Jim Fitzpatrick, the Minister for Food, Farming and Environment, who walked out of a Muslim marriage ceremony in his constituency, apparently in a state of shock that men and women would be segregated and sit apart.

Our guest blogger, Shelina Zahra Janmohamed, author of Love in a Headscarf, argues, with justification, that Fitzpatrick was extremely rude to the couple in question. What do you think?

Shelina writes:
Fitzpatrick's constituency, Poplar and Canning Town, includes Tower Hamlets which has a 35 per cent Bangladeshi Muslim population. He claims, rather surprisingly, that he was unaware of the custom of segregation at Muslim weddings. It worries me that the representative of a ward where a large minority are Muslim is completely ignorant of this tradition. I'm even more shocked that he is proud to profess his ignorance. Whether he likes or dislikes the custom is a different matter: surely he ought to be aware of how a significant chunk of his community conduct a central event in their personal lives. What else is he ignorant of?

Let's start with the meaning of integration. Fitzpatrick says that separate seating for men and women is stopping integration. Yet here is a family who only knows him through a friend and possibly as their MP, inviting him to their most important day. That to me is reaching out and encouraging integration.

Then we can move onto good manners. Weddings have always been a very personal matter and as with all occasions, there is etiquette which the guests must follow. If there is one thing that the British can truly pride themselves on, it is (or at least used to be) excellent manners. We know how to respond to invitations, use the right cutlery, queue in line. In fact many a book over the centuries has been written on developing the right social graces. The bride and groom are under no obligation as to who they invite to the wedding, and to be invited at all is a great honour. And at a time when budgets are tighter than ever, and weddings are becoming increasingly expensive, it is a real privilege to be invited to someone's wedding.

I feel very sad for the bride and groom that their special day has been hijacked by a rude ungracious guest who decided that their personal choices for the day were not to his taste.

But here is the rub of Fitzpatrick's ignorance. Segregated weddings are extremely commonplace and have been so for decades. Only a handful of the many Muslim weddings I have attended in my life have not been segregated. And this is not just the case in Britain but all over the world. Women have their own celebrations, as do the men, and both of these are incredibly joyful vibrant occasions. A half-Iraqi half-English Muslim friend who married a British born Bangladeshi had her marriage celebration for women only, and enjoyed it thoroughly. Her husband is delighted that the women got to "let their hair down" (literally in some cases of hijab-wearers). A wedding I attended in Bahrain of a minor royal was held in a glamorous marquee catering for a thousand people. Nine hundred and ninety nine were women. The groom popped in briefly to give his bride the ring.

If we look closer to home, segregation is still prevalent in other wedding traditions too. Some orthodox Jewish marriages are segregated. And we still hold dear to our separation of the stag night and hen do. Would Fitzpatrick have wanted to take his wife along on a drunken weekend in Prague?

Source
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GuestFellow
08-15-2009, 12:33 PM
Islam is a brutal, degraded, and degrading, sexist, and racist shame of a religion. No public official should dignify it by attending any of its ceremonies.

Posted by: Jennifer Aaron
{The comments made on this article.}

Bla bla bla bla bla. She is clearly full of crap and speaks rubbish. =)
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
08-15-2009, 01:29 PM
And her English seems like it sucks too. Bad grammar in there :p
Reply

Santoku
08-15-2009, 02:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mahfuja
Salaam

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...ng-segregation

"Jim Fitzpatrick, the minister for food, farming and environment, left a constituent's wedding at the London Muslim Centre, next door to and run by the East London mosque in Whitechapel, after being told that male and female guests were to be segregated.

Fitzpatrick said it was "strange" he could not sit with his GP wife Sheila at the ceremony on Sunday. "We've been attending [Muslim] weddings together for years but only recently has this strict line been taken. We left so as not to cause offence," he said.

But the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) accused the minister of turning a private matter for the families concerned into a political issue."

Some things we can do insha'Allah:

1) Contact Fitzpatrick via phone:

Tel: 020 7219 5085/6215 Fax: 020 7219 2776

(2) Write to the him:
http://www.writetothem.com/write?who...3DMP%26meta%3D

(3) A poll: WAS Government minister Jim Fitzpatrick right to walk out of a Muslim wedding because he was segregated from his wife? GIVE YOUR VIEW!
http://www.eastlondonadvertiser.co.u...t/default.aspx

JazakumAllah Khair

Walaikumsalaam
Do I think he was right - it was his choice, if you went to a nightclub a place you consider is wrong would go in or go away. Exactly you would say not for I am out of here. Would you say I am not going in there because it is wrong? Exactly. So why is his doing that wrong.
Reply

mahfuja
08-15-2009, 04:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Santoku
Do I think he was right - it was his choice, if you went to a nightclub a place you consider is wrong would go in or go away. Exactly you would say not for I am out of here. Would you say I am not going in there because it is wrong? Exactly. So why is his doing that wrong.
A nightclub and a wedding hardly are the same! Nightclub is a public event whereas a Wedding is a personal event. If you feel a place is wrong you wouldn't go there in the first place. I am sure Fitzpatrick was aware that he was attending a Muslim wedding and he is familiar with segregated arrangements as he has attended weddings of that sort before, so for him to disrespect the hosts by walking out is hardly right is it?!
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AntiKarateKid
08-15-2009, 04:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Santoku
Do I think he was right - it was his choice, if you went to a nightclub a place you consider is wrong would go in or go away. Exactly you would say not for I am out of here. Would you say I am not going in there because it is wrong? Exactly. So why is his doing that wrong.
Are you comparing a nightclub and a wedding together? You bring up a nightclub which you would presumably leave because of modesty and defend a guy who walked out of a segregated wedding he was invited to because of the wedding's modesty?:heated:

Invite me to your wedding. I'll come in, leave, then complain about it to the headlines! :statisfie
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Clover
08-15-2009, 05:09 PM
I do not understand the big deal. If Muslims want their weddings segregated, then their going to be segregated, that is the bride/groom's choice. It is their wedding. I won't have mine segregated, and it's my choice. If I wanted it to be, it would be. Jez, people need to just let people do what they want sometimes.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
08-15-2009, 05:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Santoku
Do I think he was right - it was his choice, if you went to a nightclub a place you consider is wrong would go in or go away. Exactly you would say not for I am out of here. Would you say I am not going in there because it is wrong? Exactly. So why is his doing that wrong.
That's a ridiculous comparison and you know it.

This guy is like a little 2 year old crying to his mother because he didn't like what he saw! The family was nice enough to invite him to their wedding and what did he do? Cry like a baby! Waa waa...get over it.
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Muezzin
08-15-2009, 07:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Santoku
Do I think he was right - it was his choice, if you went to a nightclub a place you consider is wrong would go in or go away. Exactly you would say not for I am out of here. Would you say I am not going in there because it is wrong? Exactly. So why is his doing that wrong.
Well, you're not going to get invited to many weddings with that attitude, pal.

format_quote Originally Posted by Clover
I do not understand the big deal. If Muslims want their weddings segregated, then their going to be segregated, that is the bride/groom's choice. It is their wedding. I won't have mine segregated, and it's my choice. If I wanted it to be, it would be. Jez, people need to just let people do what they want sometimes.
Exactly.
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Zafran
08-15-2009, 07:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Santoku
Do I think he was right - it was his choice, if you went to a nightclub a place you consider is wrong would go in or go away. Exactly you would say not for I am out of here. Would you say I am not going in there because it is wrong? Exactly. So why is his doing that wrong.
This is a stupid example - This is about somebodies wedding not some brothel or nightclub! Leaving a brothel/night club is totally different from leaving from a invited ceremony - you'll never be invited there again and would hurt a lot of people in the process. Think about the bride and groom. Its there day anyway.
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aadil77
08-15-2009, 07:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Santoku
Do I think he was right - it was his choice, if you went to a nightclub a place you consider is wrong would go in or go away. Exactly you would say not for I am out of here. Would you say I am not going in there because it is wrong? Exactly. So why is his doing that wrong.
If you don't realise what was wrong about it then you probably don't have any manners, etiquettes, respect, modesty and probably not even a heart to think about others feelings...

either that or you ignorantly didn't bother to read the article
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Uthman
08-18-2009, 10:14 AM
Minister who left Muslim wedding attacked

Labour peer says criticism of segregation was 'cowardly'

A Labour peer has demanded an apology from Jim Fitzpatrick, the Farming minister, after Mr Fitzpatrick publicly criticised the segregation of men and women at Muslim weddings.

Lord Patel of Blackburn, a senior figure in Britain's Muslim community, accused Mr Fitzpatrick of launching a "cowardly attack" on Muslims who opted for a segregated wedding, accusing him of pandering to "anti-Muslim sentiment" within his constituency.

Mr Fitzpatrick angered many Muslims in his east London constituency when he walked out of a ceremony at the London Muslim Centre last week in protest at being split up from his wife. He also gave interviews suggesting that the custom showed a "degree of intolerance" towards guests who may be offended.

But in a scathing attack on his party colleague, Lord Patel said that Mr Fitzpatrick's stance was merely an attempt to gain votes.

"I suspect Mr Fitzpatrick has one eye on the general election and has mistakenly used this event for political gain," he said. "He is playing to a section of the voters with whom anti-Muslim sentiment is appealing. This is underhand and dangerous."

He warned that Mr Fitzpatrick risked creating "alienation and distrust" within his own community by implying that all Muslims in the area must assimilate for reasons of social cohesion.

The bridegroom has also asked for an apology from Mr Fitzpatrick for "hijacking" the ceremony for political gain. Bodrul Islam said he had been "amazed and shocked" by Mr Fitzpatrick's protest.

The minister blamed the decision to segregate men and women at the ceremony on the Islamic Forum of Europe (IFE), a conservative group with an office at the East London Mosque next door to the wedding venue. However, Mr Islam denied that he or his wife had come under any pressure to separate their guests.

Mr Fitzpatrick yesterday said he had been seeking to highlight the growing influence of the IFE, rather than criticise the wishes of the families involved.

"There was nothing cowardly about the attack on the IFE. It was very direct and very open," he said.

"The IFE are intolerant, not the community. The community is a very generous and open one. My beef is that the IFE is starting to influence the social and political life of the Bangladeshi and Muslim community.

"I have apologised on camera to the families and to the community for any offence that I may have caused. That was not what I was trying to do."

Source
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Cabdullahi
08-18-2009, 10:31 AM
What forces a person to say such a thing is desperation,desperately trying to milk votes using the status quo the country is in with all the muslim hate going on

it seems that if you want to win over hearts you defame the muslims but unluckily for him he just had a big bite at the hand that fed him
Reply

Thinker
08-18-2009, 12:19 PM
Is it the case that opposite genders cannot sit in the same room together at any time or just certain occasions?

Where does it say in the Qu’ran that men and women cannot sit in the same room together?
Reply

Thinker
08-18-2009, 10:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Thinker
Is it the case that opposite genders cannot sit in the same room together at any time or just certain occasions?

Where does it say in the Qu’ran that men and women cannot sit in the same room together?
Is this a difficult question?
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Uthman
08-19-2009, 06:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Thinker
Is it the case that opposite genders cannot sit in the same room together at any time or just certain occasions?

Where does it say in the Qu’ran that men and women cannot sit in the same room together?
Here you go: http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/1200

Regards
Reply

Thinker
08-19-2009, 10:39 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Uthmān
Thank you Uthman

For the sake of simplicity and because this thread was about a wedding let’s put to one side for the moment the question of separating the sexes in a mosque.

The link you provided states . . . .
In explaining this Verse, Ibn Kathir (May Allaah have mercy on him) said: "Meaning, as I forbade you to enter their rooms, I forbid you to look at them at all. If one wants to take something from a woman, one should do so without looking at her. If one wants to ask a woman for something, the same has to be done from behind a screen."

Of course I don’t know the strength of this (hadith?) but by the bye . .

I can’t see where in this text it states that men and women should not be in the same room together or that husbands and wives should not sit side by side? What it does say is that all men at all times in all places must not look at a women and all women in all places at all times must should be behind a screen. To enable life to function that presumably would mean all women wearing the burka and as the vast majority of muslim women do not cover their face that must mean that they don’t believe this hadith is binding?
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Ummu Sufyaan
08-19-2009, 10:56 AM
Islamically, the rulings don't have to come from the Quran and sunnah literally. meaning a verse/hadith doesn't literally have to say such and such is forbidden/permitted, rather scholars are able to deduce their rulings from the "fine lines" that appears within.
so please, as we highly regard and respect our scholars-and rightfully so, don't come and voice your opinion as to suggest that they don't know what they are doing!
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Thinker
08-19-2009, 01:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Umm ul-Shaheed
Islamically, the rulings don't have to come from the Quran and sunnah literally. meaning a verse/hadith doesn't literally have to say such and such is forbidden/permitted, rather scholars are able to deduce their rulings from the "fine lines" that appears within.
so please, as we highly regard and respect our scholars-and rightfully so, don't come and voice your opinion as to suggest that they don't know what they are doing!
Which scholar is that, the one that tells you what your heart wants to hear or the one that tells you what your head fears may be true?
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Thinker
08-20-2009, 09:33 AM
Can I take it from the lack of supporting evidence that there is nothing in the Qu’ran, hadith etc., that says that a man may not sit with his wife at a wedding? And if that’s the case, would all of you above who condemned this minister care to write him an apology?
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aadil77
08-20-2009, 09:41 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Thinker
Can I take it from the lack of supporting evidence that there is nothing in the Qu’ran, hadith etc., that says that a man may not sit with his wife at a wedding? And if that’s the case, would all of you above who condemned this minister care to write him an apology?
must have thought hard for that one. What did we condemn this minister for Thinker? shouldn't be tellin porkies and put the blame on others should we?
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Ummu Sufyaan
08-20-2009, 10:45 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Thinker
Which scholar is that, the one that tells you what your heart wants to hear or the one that tells you what your head fears may be true?
people who jump to conclusions without knowledge and insist on viewing things with a closed mind to suit their lame views is nothing but a show of their own ignorance, hence i wonder how worthy their words and statements really are.

format_quote Originally Posted by Thinker
Can I take it from the lack of supporting evidence that there is nothing in the Qu’ran, hadith etc., that says that a man may not sit with his wife at a wedding?
it would have been better if you had taken it that perhaps we have better things to do than to answer a person who refuses to listen and thinks his views are better and more correct than those who have more knowledge...

And if that’s the case, would all of you above who condemned this minister care to write him an apology?
nope, becuase we have nothing to apologize for.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
08-20-2009, 01:25 PM
What's there to apologize for? Apologize for following my beliefs and because he's too ignorant to understand? He went around crying like a baby over it. That's like asking me to give him flowers because he hated my wedding ceremony and went on bragging about it. Why does he start itching over something as simple as this? Nonsense..
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Muezzin
08-20-2009, 04:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Thinker
Can I take it from the lack of supporting evidence that there is nothing in the Qu’ran, hadith etc., that says that a man may not sit with his wife at a wedding? And if that’s the case, would all of you above who condemned this minister care to write him an apology?
Apologise for what?

If he wanted to sit with his wife, he should have simply asked (the spokesman for the hall said that they allow guests to sit with their relatives etc of different genders if the guests want to, so long as the hosts of the event permit it - which I guess they would, weddings being happy occasions, and nobody really wanting to make a scene).

This isn't about sitting with his wife. It's about scoring political points.
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IbnAbdulHakim
08-20-2009, 04:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aamirsaab
:sl:
See, if he complained about the slow food, I'd agree with him. .
theres a way around that bro,

always take the table closest to the kitchen, i have and i aaalways get first serve :D
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