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Blackpool
08-16-2009, 07:09 PM
When asking this question I'm looking specifically for the responses from those living in the UK,U.S, Australia etc. If an illegal invader decided to blitz your country, an invasion (Iraqi-style) took place by, say, the U.S, Russia, China would you attempt to fight for it if called upon?
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جوري
08-16-2009, 07:14 PM
I might if I stood for the principles of that country (i.e if it were a Muslim country and I believed in what I was fighting for) otherwise no, I'd go else where...home is where the heart and mind preside (and I take them with me every where)

all the best
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Clover
08-16-2009, 07:18 PM
Yes. If the U.S. entered a war, I would join up, I plan too anyways.
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جوري
08-16-2009, 07:20 PM
his question is about expats who took residence in a country like the U.S, U.K or auss.
at least that is was my impression..

all the best
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Clover
08-16-2009, 07:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
his question is about expats who took residence in a country like the U.S, U.K or auss.
at least that is was my impression..

all the best
Expats? Ex-Patriots? I'm kinda lost. I see, o well, sorry for intruding.
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Blackpool
08-16-2009, 07:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
his question is about expats who took residence in a country like the U.S, U.K or auss.
at least that is was my impression..

all the best
It's for those that were born there and the expats. This question is for everyone :)
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جوري
08-16-2009, 07:26 PM
thank you for expositing on your original post...

all the best
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Amadeus85
08-16-2009, 09:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Blackpool
When asking this question I'm looking specifically for the responses from those living in the UK,U.S, Australia etc. If an illegal invader decided to blitz your country, an invasion (Iraqi-style) took place by, say, the U.S, Russia, China would you attempt to fight for it if called upon?
I live in a country where I was born, but if I moved to UK, for example, to fry fries or work on buildng, and war aganst this state began, I would rather look for a good way to leave this country and go back to mine.
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Somaiyah
08-16-2009, 10:24 PM
Salam,
I smiled a bit when thinking. I don't find Sweden worth fighting for.
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Tony
08-16-2009, 10:37 PM
Well if someone threatened my children I would like to think I would fight,but in the best interest of my children I may choose to move to another country. If I lived in an Islamic country I would stay and fight, I may consider sending my familly to safety first though
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GuestFellow
08-16-2009, 10:59 PM
If the UK was threatened, I would defend it.
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Ar-RaYYan
08-16-2009, 11:10 PM
It would depend on the country Im residing in at the time of the invasion
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abu_musab461
08-17-2009, 12:02 AM
In islam we dont fight for country.

We only fight to defend our land, life wealth, property, family and honour.

So no nationalism.

We only fight for what is permissible in islam to defend or fight for. Not a question of where u were born or if you happen to be in a country.

We fight for what is right- justice.
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Ar-RaYYan
08-17-2009, 12:13 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by abu_musab461
In islam we dont fight for country.

We only fight to defend our land, life wealth, property, family and honour.

So no nationalism.

We only fight for what is permissible in islam to defend or fight for. Not a question of where u were born or if you happen to be in a country.

We fight for what is right- justice.
couldnt agree more :thumbs_up
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Ramadhan
08-17-2009, 01:09 PM
Well, today, 17 August, Indonesia celebrated its 64th proclamation of Independence, having been occupied for more than 3 centuries by the Dutch and ravaged and raped for another 4 years by the Japanese.

My grandfather was an independence fighter, at some point he was arrested and detained and tortured by the Dutch.
If Indonesia is attacked by another country, InsyaAllah i will fight to rid the enemies.
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north_malaysian
08-18-2009, 01:43 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by naidamar
Well, today, 17 August, Indonesia celebrated its 64th proclamation of Independence, having been occupied for more than 3 centuries by the Dutch and ravaged and raped for another 4 years by the Japanese.

My grandfather was an independence fighter, at some point he was arrested and detained and tortured by the Dutch.
If Indonesia is attacked by another country, InsyaAllah i will fight to rid the enemies.
Happy Independence Day!!
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Ramadhan
08-18-2009, 04:15 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Happy Independence Day!!

Thank You!
Malyasian Independance day was also just recently right?
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north_malaysian
08-18-2009, 06:40 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by naidamar
Thank You!
Malyasian Independance day was also just recently right?
not yet... ours is on the 31st of August..:D
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syilla
08-18-2009, 06:55 AM
wont defending for land is the same as defending for country.

i guess those country that never been invaded by the non-muslims or the land is been taken over will never understand how important for us to defend our country

our history Tok Janggut



When he was killed in a fight with the British, Tok Janggut was labelled a rebel and his body hung upside down for public viewing. Today though, he has been recognised as a freedom fighter, writes SAGER AHMAD

HERE’S a twist to history. Ninety-two years ago, Merdeka was “declared” — in May, 1915 — in the district of Pasir Putih in Kelantan. That was 42 years and three months before the August 31, 1957, declaration!

It was rebel Malay leader Tok Janggut who declared the district of Pasir Putih free from British rule but the “declaration” was short-lived. Pasir Putih is the southernmost district along the east coast in Kelantan bordering Besut in Terengganu.

Tok Janggut and several followers were killed in battle by British soldiers summoned from Singapore. They came in a gunboat armed with large cannons.

His body was paraded in a bullock cart around Kota Baru and later, in a final act of indignation, it was covered with only a loincloth and hung upside down near the Kelantan River for four hours for public viewing. He was later buried on the opposite bank.

Tok Janggut, whose real name was Haji Mat Hassan bin Panglima Munas, was from Jeram, Pasir Putih. He had long since being reinstated as a national hero. His grave is now under a hut with tiled roof and surrounded by concrete walls. A Tourism Malaysia signboard tells about his exploits and untimely death on May 24, 1915.

A school in Pasir Putih has been named after him and there is a monument by the Semerak River, complete with keris, spears, tengkolok (head gear) and two pictures of the fallen hero but there is no signboard to inform outsiders what the monument is all about.

Tok Janggut shares a special place in history alongside other heroes who stood up against the British colonial masters.

Among them were Datuk Maharaja Lela and Datuk Sagor in Perak, Datuk Bahaman, Datuk Gajah, Mat Kilau and Mat Seman (Mat Kelantan) in Pahang. Datuk Dol Said in Naning, Negeri Sembilan, and Haji Abdul Rahman Limbong in Terengganu.

Others were Mat Saleh and Antanum in Sabah, and Sharif Masahor, Rentap, Banting, Asun and Rosli Dobi in Sarawak. The main bone of contention among the “rebels” was the excessive and unfair tax and insensitive meddling in local affairs and customs by the new “masters”
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north_malaysian
08-18-2009, 09:18 AM
is it true that Tok Janggut was a religious teacher?
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aadil77
08-18-2009, 09:25 AM
I heard at a khutbah that it is even jihad to fight to defend your homes as long as its not against muslims
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Ummu Sufyaan
08-18-2009, 10:32 AM
^even if they are the ones invading your land?
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ardianto
08-18-2009, 04:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
not yet... ours is on the 31st of August..:D
You don't need to forget when Indonesian govt sent troops to border area and made confrontation against Malaysian independence.

But we must leave the past as history and keep in peace forever. :)
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north_malaysian
08-19-2009, 01:20 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Umm ul-Shaheed
^even if they are the ones invading your land?
good question...
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north_malaysian
08-19-2009, 01:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto
You don't need to forget when Indonesian govt sent troops to border area and made confrontation against Malaysian independence.

But we must leave the past as history and keep in peace forever. :)
Many Malaysians dont care and many dont know about the Indonesia-Malaysia Confrontation...
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abu_musab461
08-19-2009, 01:35 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Umm ul-Shaheed
^even if they are the ones invading your land?
you can defend your self against muslim oppressors but do not transgress agaisnt them.
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syilla
08-19-2009, 05:11 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
is it true that Tok Janggut was a religious teacher?
i don't know...

but most of the pahlawans were pious, aren't they?
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
08-20-2009, 02:48 AM
Not worth it in my book...my home country sure...where I am no...but who knows i might need to.
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S_87
08-20-2009, 12:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Blackpool
When asking this question I'm looking specifically for the responses from those living in the UK,U.S, Australia etc. If an illegal invader decided to blitz your country, an invasion (Iraqi-style) took place by, say, the U.S, Russia, China would you attempt to fight for it if called upon?
you mean like if the US for example attacked the UK? well i hope the UK can whip them. as for fight? no i wouldnt. id be useless TBH :?
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Clover
08-20-2009, 05:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by amani
you mean like if the US for example attacked the UK? well i hope the UK can whip them. as for fight? no i wouldnt. id be useless TBH :?
The UK beat the US? I hope that is a joke. The SAS are good, but they can't cover for all of the UK lol. Of course, the US and UK ever fighting is a very un-likely thing. They have too much in common, and both are not wanting to fight the other, simply due to ancestral reasons.

No, no one is useless in war. If you work in the factory, your helping supply a product that is going to be either used, or sold for money to help the war effort.
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S_87
08-20-2009, 08:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Clover
The UK beat the US? I hope that is a joke. The SAS are good, but they can't cover for all of the UK lol. Of course, the US and UK ever fighting is a very un-likely thing. They have too much in common, and both are not wanting to fight the other, simply due to ancestral reasons.

No, no one is useless in war. If you work in the factory, your helping supply a product that is going to be either used, or sold for money to help the war effort.
hey britain is great so dont diss :P yeh i know that it seems highly unlikely that was just if as a big if.
and useless meaning the question was, would you fight for your country.

I must say if britain was at war with an islamic country then that would be another matter :nervous: but that is unlikely too at this moment in time :?
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Tony
08-20-2009, 08:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Clover
The UK beat the US? I hope that is a joke. The SAS are good, but they can't cover for all of the UK lol. Of course, the US and UK ever fighting is a very un-likely thing. They have too much in common, and both are not wanting to fight the other, simply due to ancestral reasons.

No, no one is useless in war. If you work in the factory, your helping supply a product that is going to be either used, or sold for money to help the war effort.
Bro Clover its the only thing Brits good at, fighting, we fight anyone anywhere !! We fight each other just for fun, its our biggest problem We would definatley kick usa's ass on a street level, its what we do:D
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Blackpool
08-20-2009, 08:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by amani
hey britain is great so dont diss :P yeh i know that it seems highly unlikely that was just if as a big if.
and useless meaning the question was, would you fight for your country.

I must say if britain was at war with an islamic country then that would be another matter :nervous: but that is unlikely too at this moment in time :?
So do you agree that the war in Afghanistan is against the taliban and not Islam?

I agree, Britain is great :) The question was a case of "what if" and not "when." Of course Britain alone doesn't have the capability to take the U.S alone due to the huge difference in size but it has, along with the best trained troops in the world, its commonwealth. Who the bloody hell would like to come face-to-face with a Ghurka in battle? :hmm: Britain also has its European states.

Again, it was a question of "if."
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Clover
08-20-2009, 08:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by amani
hey britain is great so dont diss :P yeh i know that it seems highly unlikely that was just if as a big if.
and useless meaning the question was, would you fight for your country.

I must say if britain was at war with an islamic country then that would be another matter :nervous: but that is unlikely too at this moment in time :?
I am not dissing, I am being logical. The US has a bigger Army, by far, and has more SF soldiers, by far. The Green Berets, Navy Seals, AF SF, Airborne Rangers, and even some of the Marine Units. Then you have the huge amounts of troops.

I don't know, depends on what happens in the future

format_quote Originally Posted by Tony
Bro Clover its the only thing Brits good at, fighting, we fight anyone anywhere !! We fight each other just for fun, its our biggest problem We would definatley kick usa's ass on a street level, its what we do:D
...please. Shut up. I am a boxer, and I am a street fighter, and thats the norm here. This is a redneck town, their not even known for fighting, but they do. If you honestly think you could take a American, then come over, I can't pay for your ticket sadly. I am a poor American. The Majority.
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GuestFellow
08-20-2009, 08:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Clover
I am not dissing, I am being logical. The US has a bigger Army, by far, and has more SF soldiers, by far. The Green Berets, Navy Seals, AF SF, Airborne Rangers, and even some of the Marine Units. Then you have the huge amounts of troops.

I don't know, depends on what happens in the future
I don't think America will remain the strongest nation. They are currently in debt. :/

USA is deteriorating...
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Tony
08-20-2009, 09:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Clover
I am not dissing, I am being logical. The US has a bigger Army, by far, and has more SF soldiers, by far. The Green Berets, Navy Seals, AF SF, Airborne Rangers, and even some of the Marine Units. Then you have the huge amounts of troops.

I don't know, depends on what happens in the future



...please. Shut up. I am a boxer, and I am a street fighter, and thats the norm here. This is a redneck town, their not even known for fighting, but they do. If you honestly think you could take a American, then come over, I can't pay for your ticket sadly. I am a poor American. The Majority.


psyche Clover come on guy, you just talk about fighting constantly on an Islamic forum, nobody cares if your hard or the wet paper bag ur coming across as, who cares whos better at hitting and causing pain to others :hiding:
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aadil77
08-20-2009, 09:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Clover
...please. Shut up. I am a boxer, and I am a street fighter, and thats the norm here. This is a redneck town, their not even known for fighting, but they do. If you honestly think you could take a American, then come over, I can't pay for your ticket sadly. I am a poor American. The Majority.
arite macho man that's enough now, you've already shown us what a big man you are, how much you can weight lift, what kind of training you do, how much you love fighting and wannabe an army boy seriously wth is the point? this is an islamic forum do you think you're gonna get any attention by comin here and acting the internet warrior?

do you think you've got some upperhand on us cos we're muslims and you're part of the great US of A?

just give it up you're not gonna achieve anythin, we know you're young thats probably why you don't realise how immature it is to come here boastin about irrelevent stuff
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Tony
08-20-2009, 09:20 PM
Clover your a good guy, ok rough at edges but a good guy, we respect you and to a point the fight talk was ok,but lets drop it now my friend, it will only cause bad feelings if it persists, and yes I am to blame aswell. But lets draw the line and talk about peace instead.
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Blackpool
08-20-2009, 09:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Clover
...please. Shut up. I am a boxer, and I am a street fighter, and thats the norm here. This is a redneck town, their not even known for fighting, but they do. If you honestly think you could take a American, then come over, I can't pay for your ticket sadly. I am a poor American. The Majority.
Pffft... sit down! I am Fedor Emelianenko's brother :shade: The best heavyweight fighter in the world... :hiding:
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S_87
08-20-2009, 09:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Blackpool
So do you agree that the war in Afghanistan is against the taliban and not Islam?

I agree, Britain is great :) The question was a case of "what if" and not "when." Of course Britain alone doesn't have the capability to take the U.S alone due to the huge difference in size but it has, along with the best trained troops in the world, its commonwealth. Who the bloody hell would like to come face-to-face with a Ghurka in battle? :hmm: Britain also has its European states.

Again, it was a question of "if."

I think afghanistan is a war with islam.

and as for your argument on best trained troops etc, most of the world is at war with afghanistan and its a lost war..the taliban are winning and the best equipment and troops cant find one man :p so.... military strength isnt always everything.
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Lost&Found
08-20-2009, 09:37 PM
The military of Antarctica can easily take on both England & the U.S.A. Those penguins know how to fight!
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aadil77
08-20-2009, 09:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Lost&Found
The military of Antarctica can easily take on both England & the U.S.A. Those penguins know how to fight!
no no I insist the kangaroo militias of australia would knock us all out
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GuestFellow
08-20-2009, 09:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by amani
I think afghanistan is a war with islam.

and as for your argument on best trained troops etc, most of the world is at war with afghanistan and its a lost war..the taliban are winning and the best equipment and troops cant find one man :p so.... military strength isnt always everything.
Asslamu Alikum.

The Taliban do not need to worry about civilian causalities. That is one major advantage towards them.

The British military have to ensure civilians do not get hurt in the process of eliminating the Taliban. In addition the Taliban are using the environment to their advantage. The British soldiers are not familiar with this type of surroundings.

I recently watched a BBC Documentary about women in Afghanistan...
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S_87
08-20-2009, 09:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Guestfellow
Asslamu Alikum.

The Taliban do not need to worry about civilian causalities. That is one major advantage towards them.

The British military have to ensure civilians do not get hurt in the process of eliminating the Taliban. In addition the Taliban are using the environment to their advantage. The British soldiers are not familiar with this type of surroundings.

I recently watched a BBC Documentary about women in Afghanistan...
did you expect them to have a good word to say about that? :hmm:

and civilians can also be killed through suicide bombings...
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Blackpool
08-20-2009, 09:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by amani
I think afghanistan is a war with islam.

and as for your argument on best trained troops etc, most of the world is at war with afghanistan and its a lost war..the taliban are winning and the best equipment and troops cant find one man :p so.... military strength isnt always everything.
You've just contradicted yourself to post #31 :hmm:

As for the Taliban winning the war, it seems they lost already. They've lost their power in Afganistan. We need to fight the Taliban. They choose to house Osama Bin Laden. When the Taliban was in power in Afghanistan they executed men, women and even children in public. I remember one muslim woman being shot in the head on a football pitch for not adhereing to their rules.
One day the Taliban will be defeated...

Back to the topic anyway.
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Lost&Found
08-20-2009, 09:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
no no I insist the kangaroo militias of australia would knock us all out
*Yawn*

By the time those kangaroos reach Antartica they would be frozen solid. :skeleton:
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aadil77
08-20-2009, 09:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Blackpool
You've just contradicted yourself to post #31 :hmm:

As for the Taliban winning the war, it seems they lost already. They've lost their power in Afganistan. We need to fight the Taliban. They choose to house Osama Bin Laden. When the Taliban was in power in Afghanistan they executed men, women and even children in public. I remember one muslim woman being shot in the head on a football pitch for not adhereing to their rules.
One day the Taliban will be defeated...

Back to the topic anyway.
yeh the whole world has seen the women getting shot in a football pitch, I saw it first time in college

but they've cleared that up ages ago, she was proven to be an adultress, but again she should have been stoned not shot

I've never heard of them executing children, but the rest of people who earn the punishment islamically do get it.

they have a messed up shariah system but they've recently introduced a manual for the fighters to adhere to all islamic guidlines, which is a start they need time to set up proper shairah courts nd the lot
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Tony
08-20-2009, 09:53 PM
Nope the centipide army of the english woodlands are best, they can kick ur ass 100 times at once:p
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S_87
08-20-2009, 09:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Blackpool
You've just contradicted yourself to post #31 :hmm:

As for the Taliban winning the war, it seems they lost already. They've lost their power in Afganistan. We need to fight the Taliban. They choose to house Osama Bin Laden. When the Taliban was in power in Afghanistan they executed men, women and even children in public. I remember one muslim woman being shot in the head on a football pitch for not adhereing to their rules.
One day the Taliban will be defeated...

Back to the topic anyway.
you mean about the britiain is great thing? i was just saying that in a humourus way, the reality is that being a superpower does not guarantee a won war.

The taliban are not losing the war. TBH with regards to OBL, who knows the truth about him? Is he even alive?
as for executions, that happens in saudi and other mid eastern countrie but because saudi is 'friends' with the west right now (and only cos of petrol) are they ok? plus these executions are part of shariah law so...not to forget saddam hussain was given a very public execution, so double standards?
plus in some places in the west punishment by death is still practiced.
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GuestFellow
08-20-2009, 09:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by amani
did you expect them to have a good word to say about that? :hmm:
.
No I didn't...what do you think of that documentary?

format_quote Originally Posted by Blackpool
As for the Taliban winning the war, it seems they lost already.
How come the British government considered negotiating with the Taliban?

We need to fight the Taliban. They choose to house Osama Bin Laden. When the Taliban was in power in Afghanistan they executed men, women and even children in public. I remember one muslim woman being shot in the head on a football pitch for not adhereing to their rules.
I think Osama Bin Laden is dead....anyway I don't think the Taliban executed children in public.
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aadil77
08-20-2009, 09:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tony
Nope the centipide army of the english woodlands are best, they can kick ur ass 100 times at once:p
how could we forget the Killer B Units of Africa? one sting and you're a gonner
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zakirs
08-21-2009, 07:48 PM
Or the food cooked in my university.. you could kill every person who eats it

(just to light up this post.. sorry if its offtopic)
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