which language is urdu derived from?

[Ummu Sufyaan]

:sl:
just out of interest...is it Farsi, or Arabic?

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

:sl:

Both. Farsi and Arabic. :D

:w:

[Nora.]

Arabic
I think

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

It's both lol. There are many words from Farsi also. But definitely more Arabic.

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[waji]

well it is the mixture of
Arabic
Farsi
Sindhi
Hindi

['Abdul Rahmaan]

Mainly derived from persian and sansikrat. Arabic also has its share in the development of Urdu language.

By the way, the word "Urdu" is a Turkish word. :p

[Soulja Girl]

:sl:

Derived from English too =P

:wa:

[Anafam]

:sl:

Derived from English too =P

:wa:

yes, before it wasn't but now it is from english and a lot too.

[ژاله]

urdu is a mix of many many languages,some include
arabic,persian,sanskrit,turkish,sindhi,punjabi,etc
and it also contains many originally english words too.
the major ones are arabic and persian, though the composition differs from place to place as well as the people who speak it.eg pakistani urdu contains more arabic persian words whereas indian urdu is more inclined towards hindi and sanskrit etc.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Yea...I agree with sis Malaak. If you watch the news...they use loads of hard words. Thats when you know it's the hardcore Urdu! :D Not what we speak in our daily lives.

[abdullah_001]

urdu is a mix of many many languages,some include
arabic,persian,sanskrit,turkish,sindhi,punjabi,etc
and it also contains many originally english words too.
the major ones are arabic and persian, though the composition differs from place to place as well as the people who speak it.eg pakistani urdu contains more arabic persian words whereas indian urdu is more inclined towards hindi and sanskrit etc.

That's not quite true considering Urdu originated in India (Agra, Delhi :P). In Indian states such as Uttar Pradesh people still speak pure Urdu, and of course, my city, Hyderabad hehe though we tend to have our own dialect (nahin kariye, nakko karo bola na lol). Though near the north eastern areas like Punjab they speak like different dialect I think and I'm sure its the same for Pakistan since I've heard many Pakistanis speak it unless I'm mistaken.

http://www.siasat.com/urdu The newspaper that my gramps and my parents read, though I think they're upgrading their website, I used to read news from it too for quite some time. And you'll notice the very first link is not news itself but it is hadeeth shareef, then city news then state then country n so on hehe

[ژاله]

That's not quite true considering Urdu originated in India (Agra, Delhi :P). In Indian states such as Uttar Pradesh people still speak pure Urdu, and of course, my city, Hyderabad hehe though we tend to have our own dialect (nahin kariye, nakko karo bola na lol). Though near the north eastern areas like Punjab they speak like different dialect I think and I'm sure its the same for Pakistan since I've heard many Pakistanis speak it unless I'm mistaken.

yup i agree urdu originated in india, and dehlis dialect is the purest. but people have migrated from these places to all over india and pakistan, they took their dialect to various places.

http://www.siasat.com/urdu The newspaper that my gramps and my parents read, though I think they're upgrading their website, I used to read news from it too for quite some time. And you'll notice the very first link is not news itself but it is hadeeth shareef, then city news then state then country n so on hehe

actually, i meant that generally indian urdu contains more hindi and sanskrit etc, am i wrong? though i think with some of the muslims in india this might not be the case, i did state that, as in the following quote but i didnt put emphasis on that. so mistake on my part, sorry.:)

the composition differs from place to place as well as the people who speak it.eg pakistani urdu contains more arabic persian words whereas indian urdu is more inclined towards hindi and sanskrit etc.

by people here i was vaguely referring to their religions lol, cuz in some way your choice of words etc depends on it as well..
p.s.btw i still dont quite get where exactly do you disagree lol?

[abdullah_001]

yup i agree urdu originated in india, and dehlis dialect is the purest. but people have migrated from these places to all over india and pakistan, they took their dialect to various places.

actually, i meant that generally indian urdu contains more hindi and sanskrit etc, am i wrong? though i think with some of the muslims in india this might not be the case, i did state that, as in the following quote but i didnt put emphasis on that. so mistake on my part, sorry.:)

by people here i was vaguely referring to their religions lol, cuz in some way your choice of words etc depends on it as well..
p.s.btw i still dont quite get where exactly do you disagree lol?

:sl:

Ah, then forgive me sis, I didn't realize what you meant. Urdu has many words taken from sanskrit and hindi to be honest though, both languages are very similar but now it seems like I'm stressing a point that you have already made lol.

But forgive me again sis I misunderstood what you meant, sorry.

You must admit though, Urdu sounds veeeery poetic.

umr-e-daraaz maang kar laaye they chaar din
do arzoo mein kaT gaye do intezaar mein

kitnaa hai bad_naseeb "Zafar" dafn key liye
do gaz zamin bhi na mili kuu-e-yaar mein

What must have been the sate of Bahadur Shah zafar when he wrote this. Two of his sons got executed and their heads were presented to him on a plate by the British army and he was exiled from his country...

Zafar aadmi usko na jaaneye gaa, ho woh kitna hi saahib-e fehm-o zakaa
Jisey eish mein yaad-e Khuda na rahee, jisey teish mein khaof-e Khuda na rahaa

:wa:

[Banu_Hashim]

Historically urdu vocabulary consists of mainly:

Hindi/Sanskrit (85%)

Arabic (5%)

Farsi (10%)

...Roughly. The more arabic and persian words you use in speech, the posher the Urdu is.

[Banu_Hashim]

That's not quite true considering Urdu originated in India (Agra, Delhi :P). In Indian states such as Uttar Pradesh people still speak pure Urdu, and of course, my city, Hyderabad hehe though we tend to have our own dialect (nahin kariye, nakko karo bola na lol).

Yep, and it was also developed in Lucknow where my family are from.

[ژاله]

historically urdu vocabulary consists of mainly:

Hindi/sanskrit (85%)

a bit of exaggeration.

arabic (5%)

farsi (10%)

a bit of understatement.

...roughly. The more arabic and persian words you use in speech, the posher the urdu is.

lol.

[Banu_Hashim]

^ Whaat. 70% Persian? Come on... that has to be an exaggeration. I know it has a lot of farsi in it, but that much?

EDIT: Ok... I have to concede that you're right.

[alcurad]

so many? interesting. but then again, I don't speak Farsi..

[abdullah_001]

^ Whaat. 70% Persian? Come on... that has to be an exaggeration. I know it has a lot of farsi in it, but that much?

EDIT: Ok... I have to concede that you're right.

:sl:

Its ok Banu_hashim, we both sunk together in the same boat lol.

On a side note: would love to learn farsi.

[alcurad]

^The most musical language :sunny:

[ژاله]

whats so musical about farsi?//

[Banu_Hashim]

whats so musical about farsi?//

Farsi (like Urdu) is the language of poetry.

[ژاله]

so is every language(for its speakers at least),innit?

[abdullah_001]

so is every language(for its speakers at least),innit?

I think Urdu is poetic but I think Arabic is far far far more poetic and has a very very beautiful flow specially with the thickness of certain letters than any language could be. I think Farsi could also be more poetic than Urdu because Urdu is derived from Farsi. My gramps speaks a lil farsi. Just cuz i speak Urdu i dont wanna claim its the most beautiful language ever but I think its more poetic than languages likes english for sure though.

This kind of stuff just intrigues us thats all :P

Wasslaam ya ukhthi

[Woodrow]

I think Urdu is poetic but I think Arabic is far far far more poetic and has a very very beautiful flow specially with the thickness of certain letters than any language could be. I think Farsi could also be more poetic than Urdu because Urdu is derived from Farsi. My gramps speaks a lil farsi. Just cuz i speak Urdu i dont wanna claim its the most beautiful language ever but I think its more poetic than languages likes english for sure though.

This kind of stuff just intrigues us thats all :P

Wasslaam ya ukhthi

:sl:

In terms of Qur'anic Arabic I agree with this.

I think Arabic is far far far more poetic and has a very very beautiful flow specially with the thickness of certain letters than any language could be.

However I do not know of any country in which Qur'anic Arabic is spoken. All of the colloquial modern dialects are not very pleasant sounding. (Possible exceptions Syrian and Yemeni Arabic) Urdu is much more pleasant and poetic then Modern Arabic.

[alcurad]

no really, Farsi Is musical 'sounding' I think, see for yourself http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzugQ8pRtYs

Arabic as it is spoken now-colloquial- is a gruff sounding language actually, being my mother tongue I like it well enough, but either way, I'm referring to sound here, not capability for expression.
French sounds unique among European languages, Lebanese/Syrian Arabic is like that among he colloquial Arabic dialects. having to do with different root words etc.

Urdu on the other hand can be too flowery.

[abdullah_001]

:sl:

In terms of Qur'anic Arabic I agree with this.



However I do not know of any country in which Qur'anic Arabic is spoken. All of the colloquial modern dialects are not very pleasant sounding. (Possible exceptions Syrian and Yemeni Arabic) Urdu is much more pleasant and poetic then Modern Arabic.

What about old Arabic poetry then brother?

[alcurad]

^but bro, that's a dead form of expression, only the form and sentence structure is maintained, otherwise no one truly gets it..

the qur'an is an absolute form of poetry/language I believe, a universal text not bound to Arabic only, it supplies never-ending meaning, so it's hardly comparable to Arabic as a language.

[abdullah_001]

^but bro, that's a dead form of expression, only the form and sentence structure is maintained, otherwise no one truly gets it..

the qur'an is an absolute form of poetry/language I believe, a universal text not bound to Arabic only, it supplies never-ending meaning, so it's hardly comparable to Arabic as a language.

:sl:

Brother, even if the message was universal, the miracle would still be in Arabic. Proof of this is, Qur'an doesn't have that effect on us as it did on the people of Quraish at the time when Qur'an was revealed. Even the disbelievers of those times had very profound reactions listening to Qur'an.

And when we look at the concept of miracles we must understand that the miracles that Prophets(as) performed were related to what their nations excelled at. Pharoah's time was a time of magic n illusion, hence why Musa (as)'s stick turned into a snake and such, hence the reason why the wizards became Muslims when they saw the snake eat their snakes which were just illusions. Isa (as)'s nation excelled at medicine, hence why he could heal the sick cure the blind and bring the dead back to life etc.

Why was the miracle sent to Quraish at that particular time? and why did even the disbelievers of that time had such reaction that even we as Muslims do not have? Why is it that they realized the miracle and we, even though we admit that Qur'an is a miracle and the ultimate guidance sent from Allah (swt), fail to be moved to such extent by it?

Understanding the guidance and understanding the miracle are two different things and even though we may get the basic message of Qur'an, however distorted it may be, in other languages, we will never be able to understand the miracle in any language other than Arabic and thats why we say that the Qur'an is only in Arabic, among other reasons of course.

[alcurad]

I simply take at as part of the universality of the message, it fits every people in their time in a unique way. we as mostly 'born' Muslims don't feel much from over exposure, not to mention these days the qur'an takes secondary place to hadeeth/figh, not much is there in the way of tafseer for example, we still use superficial/archaic tafseers from centuries ago that contain as much myth/legend and tales from the bible as genuine tafseer. rather people mostly discuss sectarian divisions and whatnot instead of the qur'an, or focus on the voice and singing it instead of understanding/applying it.

[abdullah_001]

I simply take at as part of the universality of the message, it fits every people in their time in a unique way. we as mostly 'born' Muslims don't feel much from over exposure, not to mention these days the qur'an takes secondary place to hadeeth/figh, not much is there in the way of tafseer for example, we still use superficial/archaic tafseers from centuries ago that contain as much myth/legend and tales from the bible as genuine tafseer. rather people mostly discuss sectarian divisions and whatnot instead of the qur'an, or focus on the voice and singing it instead of understanding/applying it.

:sl:

Brother, forgive me as I'm not as knowledgeable as you are, but to me it seems that this is a definite sign of the loss of knowledge in our times.

And I think we don't get moved to such an extent when listening or reciting the Qur'an because we, the modern era Muslims, are so alluded in pursuing worldy affairs that we don't teach ourselves and our kids Arabic hence we don't even understand what we recite.

Second, there is a severe disease plaguing the Muslims in todays world, we think pursuing worldy matters is far more important than pursuing matters of religion. Take guidance from our history and compare it to our ineptitude in todays world. Wallahi, sisters in palestine and kashmir and afganistan get raped everyday, muslim brothers in guantanamo bay get treated so inhumanly just the thought of it makes the stomach churn. Wallahi, we Muslims today don't feel the pain of our brothers and sisters at all.

We are too confined within our boundaries of Pakistan and India and Saudia and so on to realise that we won't even turn a leaf until we are united as one ummah. Think about it, we are more than a billion Muslims yet what is our contribution to todays world and most of all what is our contribution to the muslim ummah as a whole? nothing, absolutely nothing. Didn't the Prophet (sallallahi alaihi wa sallam) say muslims at the end of times will be like foam on top of water? what is our impact on society? absolutely nothing, we are completely weightless.

And third because our hearts have hardened and the truth is we will be humiliated again and again and again until we come back to the fold of Islam and realize that peace, no matter how much one yearns and hopes for it, is only temporary illusion. Every single Muslim goes through trials and tribulations and if we see someone in this world who has everything they could ever want (the pop singers, the george bushs, the bankers of usa, the corrupt kings) and aren't going through any trials or tribulations at all, then that is sure sign that they are on the path of destruction.

Now that i think about it though, this post seems more like a rant lol but forgive me for my shortcomings dear brother :)

[alcurad]

dude, it's ok :) we're simply sharing opinions..

I mean I do feel sad at the state we are in, but I also believe the future belongs to us as we have been promised (21:105) "Before this We wrote in the Psalms, after the Message (given to Moses): My servants the righteous, shall inherit the earth."

rather I went into a rant myself there. sorry for that, this thread is completely off-topic now lol

[Banu_Hashim]

I think Urdu is poetic but I think Arabic is far far far more poetic and has a very very beautiful flow specially with the thickness of certain letters than any language could be. I think Farsi could also be more poetic than Urdu because Urdu is derived from Farsi. My gramps speaks a lil farsi. Just cuz i speak Urdu i dont wanna claim its the most beautiful language ever but I think its more poetic than languages likes english for sure though.

This kind of stuff just intrigues us thats all :P

Wasslaam ya ukhthi

Qur'anic Arabic yes, I agree. But I think spoken Urdu nowadays sounds more poetic than spoken Arabic today, definitely. That is my opinion.

[Woodrow]

What about old Arabic poetry then brother?

The old Arabic poetry, written in Classical Arabic is quite Beautiful. It is close to Qur'anic Arabic in that sense.

Many language teachers view Qur'anic Arabic as having been the model for Classical Arabic.


Qur'anic Arabic is actually very unique in terms of language. The Qur'an is the only source for it and the only known pure writing of it. It was never used as a daily colloquial language. Although there are many dialects of Arabic and often there is difficulty in them understanding each other a person versed in any dialect can easily comprehend the Qur'anic. That to me is a miracle of the Qur'an. To think that when Muhammad(PBUH) was first reciting it he was reciting to crowds from different Arabic tribes,each speaking a unique dialect yet they all understood him and it was the first time Qur'anic Arabic was spoken on earth.

[malayloveislam]

lol, that's why when I speak Quranic Arabic with the Arabs in Saudi and they laugh to me saying I'm reciting Quran and it took me an hour to finish a sentence...

Well, spoken Urdu is quite poetic although I dunno to speak Urdu, still it is among the languages used to teach Islam to non-Arab muslims. I love all languages used to teach Islam, Arabic, Urdu, Turkish, and Persian.

Yeah, this thread sounds off-topic. O.k time's out, back to Quran...

[CosmicPathos]

Urdu is basically persianized and arabicized Hindustani. On the other hand, Hindi is sanskritized Hindustani. Urdu is heavily influenced with Sanskrit as well. The word for water "paani" has Sanskrit origins. Urdu also uses "aab" for water which is a persian word. But in daily language of Urdu, paani is used.

I used to love Urdu but my love for it has faded away now after visiting Lahore. Urdu is not a "pure" language. It continuously takes words from other languages, these days it is taking from English despite the fact it contains words for those things already. For example, I read in a supermarket in Fortress, Lahore written in Urdu script "Fresh Milk." It was written in Urdu! Can you believe that? Why not just write "taaza doodh?"

Similarly I read on a board "Lemon ki Freshness" in Urdu script! Why NOT write "leemon ki taaazgi?" Urdu disappointed me. After discussing this discovery with my uncle, who is a poet, he told me to focus more on my native tongue which is punjabi and is free of any arrogance that sometime Urdu-speaking people have. No offense to Urdu speakers.

Walaikum Salam.

[CosmicPathos]

and after reading poems of many punjabi poets, I've come to love the simplicity of this great language. ...

['Abdul Rahmaan]

Brother, this topic has already been discussed. :p:

:sl:

Derived from English too =P

:wa:

[waji]

Wa7abiScientist brother this is greatness of this language that it easily accommodates other language words
but yes if there is an urdu word present so why use other language but it is up to individuals who speak and use other language words
like our teacher used to say that there is no word for "pizza" so we can use it in urdu, where there is urdu words for "plain rice" "sadah chawal سادہ چاول" but alot of people doesn't say it so its people choice

[Danah]

Oh!! I didn't know that there are more than one type of Urdu.

There is like Indian Urdu, Pakistani Urdu.....etc!! That's interesting.

[Caller الداعي]

urdu was came about when the indian army assembled and needed a common language to communicate with each other

[Danah]

^ oh thats interesting!

do you have any sources for that? I would like to know more

[Woodrow]

I find that many Urdu speakers are Multi-Lingual. Or I should say all of the Urdu speaking people I know are fluent in at least 3 or 4 languages.


Perhaps this is because Urdu is composed of the root words of so many different languages.

[Woodrow]

For some reason I have found it difficult to learn Urdu. My daughter and her husband spent 2 years trying to teach me and the only world I learned is kemah and I probably spell that wrong.


EDIT: Just got sent the correct spelling keema. I said I have trouble with learning Urdu. Sheesh even my little grand children speak it and all I can do is name hamburger.

[Danah]

^Maybe that's why. I found many Indian/Pakistani people very fluent in English. Even though I support Uncle Woodrow theory in being fluent in more than one language, it will be easier for someone to learn a language that he already has some of its words in his mother tongue


Now I start seriously thinking of learning Urdu, especially after noticing the amazing similarity between it and Arabic. There are a lot of Indian/Pakistani people here in the Arabian Gulf region who speak it

[Alphadude]

it is farsi im sure of it and i can speak iswell

[Woodrow]

I just had a strange learning experience. I was reading up on the origin of English and saw that English is in the same family of languages that Farsi, Urdu and Hindi are in. I was always aware that English is an Indo-European language, but until now it never sunk in that like Urdu it has some roots in Hindi. Although Farsi, Hindi and Urdu have stronger ties and while being Indo-European they are more specifically Indo-Iranian. Small world.

For a better explanation check this site:


http://www.anglik.net/englishlanguagehistory.htm

[alcurad]

interesting, it appears that population size/clout is what determines the spread of language, with so many populations in Asia-Chinese, Paki's/Indians, Arabs etc- increasing, it appears that most people will be multi lingual in the short-medium run, with no single language dominating.

[Woodrow]

interesting, it appears that population size/clout is what determines the spread of language, with so many populations in Asia-Chinese, Paki's/Indians, Arabs etc- increasing, it appears that most people will be multi lingual in the short-medium run, with no single language dominating.

With more international contacts, in a very short time it will be essential for every body to be multi-lingual. But if history stays consistent the trend will be for the most used languages to combine and reach the point of being interchangable, a very large vocabulary language, using the words of the languages it comes from.

[alcurad]

^indeed, in the long term I don't believe humans will even 'look' like us let alone use our archaic ways or speech.

but if history is to be a witness, then after every 'merging, there is 'breaking' as well.

I mean language is simply a method to exchange information and make sense of/shape the world, so indeed some parts will irreversibly change as we learn more of the world around us and unite-politically, culturally and in other ways- but individual modes of expression will probably emerge/evolve as well, humans being still humans.

btw good points bro woodrow :)

[Iris]

Woodrow: So interesting to know that you have kids and grandkids who speak urdu, mashaAllah!

Urdu, like someone here said earlier, was used as a combined language for the army in the subcontinent, the language of the 'lashkar' as they used to say. It was a combination of Persian,Hindi,Arabic and Sanskrit. Till today there are many words which are common to persian, urdu, hindi and arabic.
Though nowadays 50% of it is just english. Urdu has lost its touch honestly. People in Pakistan insist on using English words even when there are urdu words available for certain things and the urdu words are fastly gettin wiped out.

[Caller الداعي]

the difference of language is from the signs of Allah just like the difference in colour

وَمِنْ آيَاتِهِ خَلْقُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ وَاخْتِلَافُ أَلْسِنَتِكُمْ وَأَلْوَانِكُمْ إِنَّ فِي ذَلِكَ لَآيَاتٍ لِلْعَالِمِينَ

'from amongst his signs is the creation of the heavens and earth and difference in your languages and colours. In there are indeed signs for those who have knowledge!

[Woodrow]

^indeed, in the long term I don't believe humans will even 'look' like us let alone use our archaic ways or speech.

but if history is to be a witness, then after every 'merging, there is 'breaking' as well.

I mean language is simply a method to exchange information and make sense of/shape the world, so indeed some parts will irreversibly change as we learn more of the world around us and unite-politically, culturally and in other ways- but individual modes of expression will probably emerge/evolve as well, humans being still humans.

btw good points bro woodrow :)

True as languages are used, local differences come into play, Todays slang becomes tomorrows accepted. The changes in English are very evident when you look at the differences in British, Canadian and Australian English. Or even here the differences between Northern and Southern American and even some very specific differences by States such as the unique accents and slang found in Texas, Maine, New York, New Jersey and Vermont.