Non-Muslims,whats your view?

[Ramisa]

:sl:

If you are a non Muslim,I would like to know that,whats your view after death?

:wa:

[Gubbleknucker]

We should live our lives to the fullest while we still have them.

What comes after? I do not know.

[Ramisa]

:sl:

Thanks for your view but....
I assume you are giving your opinion..as other atheists may have other thoughts. Don't you have feel the curiosty within the topic regarding afterlife? Don't you wonder how you were born? How your grandmother was born and her grandmother..? Beyond explanation for you? How would you explain that? How will you explain the Earth forming?

:w:

[Gubbleknucker]

Don't ask about the formation of the earth here, you're threadjacking your own discussion!;D

Regarding the afterlife, I don't think that mere belief can make such a thing happen.

Religion makes people both hope that it is true and fear that it is true.
I just can't make myself believe in something because I want it to be true. It would be nice if there were fairies, but I don't live my whole life just in hope of seeing one. Likewise, I don't hang garlic to protect myself from Dracula.

I see it like hoping that there is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. You run towards the rainbow, but it keeps moving away from you, and once you reach the end of the water droplets that are refracting the light it just dissipates.
I've never actually looked for a pot of gold, but I have chased after rainbows:p


Here's a question: If there is an afterlife, is the entity that survives us really us?

Even if you made an exact copy, all it would be is a copy. The continuum of consciousness would be broken. You would die, and a copy of you would begin life--or, rather, afterlife.

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[Ramisa]

:sl:

Rather than answering your counter-question yet..I would like to know 'How the Earth was formed' answered by you. Seems you don't have an answer describing it because you stalled it off with a comment;D. Please do answer that question before I answer yours, tommorow inshallah.

[Gubbleknucker]

:sl:

Rather than answering your counter-question yet..I would like to know 'How the Earth was formed' answered by you. Seems you don't have an answer describing it because you stalled it off with a comment;D. Please do answer that question before I answer yours, tommorow inshallah.

Oh, I dunno... Gravity?
Let's take it a step further and just go with the current theory. Based on the "Big Bang" thread, it seems that your Brothers and Sisters in Islam accept the findings of physics and astronomy, if not biology.

Basically, there was a giant cloud of dust and gas called a nebula. As gravity pulled it together, lumps formed out of the debris and began to exert their own gravitational force. The largest lump was so large that it began to fuse hydrogen atoms together to produce large amounts of energy. This was the sun. The other lumps either orbited the sun or were consumed by it. Lumps in the same orbit eventually collided and combined. Voila-planets.

This is just a hypothesis. It's possible that the sun collided with another star and the planets were flung out into orbit. This doesn't make as much sense, but it's possible.
The nebula hypothesis explains more things about the nature of our solar system, such as why it is an ecliptic, and we can see nebulae at various stages of this process with our most powerful telescopes, but I won't discount anything.

If you want to learn more, go read a science text book. If my description was in any way lacking, there are some decent visuals out there,and they may be found via video search.

Here's the Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formati...e_Solar_System

Again, I think it's odd that you want to go off topic in your own discussion. It makes me think that you don't want to have an actual discussion, but would rather challenge other people's faith, or my total lack of it.

Basically you're turning the watchmaker argument on me, which, I'd like to point out, has nothing to do with the existence of the afterlife. The only thing the watchmaker argument supports is the existence of the deist god ( with a lowercase g). If you would like to discuss that, there are other threads.

Back on topic:

I've always wanted to know what it feels like to seriously believe that the majority of people living in this world are going to Hell.

So, what does it feel like?

[Ramisa]

:sl:

You may not know my intention in making this thread,but don't worry this is related:). please don't judge the persons physical appearance and make a quick assumption to accuse one,rather just ask if it is related or not,which to my understanding is a better way of indicating if I am relating to the original topic or not. Thanks in advance.

As for my question(about the Earth forming) I asked you is still left without an un- educated reply. Please explain that how gravity can create a planet(s)? If you can't answer that,then why are you an athiest? Without knowing the reasoning of not following a god,how can you prove that their is no god when the evidence lies in front of you.Allah knows the best and best of luck:).

Peace.

[indian]

After death you stay in waiting for next birth as a human or animal or plant depending on your karma in previous births. When a child takes birth in a family where you are destined to be born, you take birth.

[Sojourn]

After death you're immediately judged and either end up in Heaven or hell.

[Rasema]

After death you're immediately judged and either end up in Heaven or hell.

And you wont be questioned by the One God and no one else in the middle?

[GuestFellow]

After death you stay in waiting for next birth as a human or animal or plant depending on your karma in previous births. When a child takes birth in a family where you are destined to be born, you take birth.

I never heard of that view before. Can you please go into more detail? Sounds very interesting.

[Rasema]

After death you stay in waiting for next birth as a human or animal or plant depending on your karma in previous births. When a child takes birth in a family where you are destined to be born, you take birth.

What was your first karma?

If your first karma was from the first human being on the earth then how is it that so many babies get borned being that person?

I'm guessing.

[S_87]

After death you stay in waiting for next birth as a human or animal or plant depending on your karma in previous births. When a child takes birth in a family where you are destined to be born, you take birth.

so youve actually lived a gazillion lives previously? and does an animal reincarnate into a human? so could for example a pig in the last life be a human and then a snake?
and is there anywhere in ur mind that u know of your previous life?
and if for example you killed a spider then can it come back as a human to attack you?
and how long does the process take? (like will you come back onto earth straight away or it takes time?)

[indian]

so youve actually lived a gazillion lives previously? and does an animal reincarnate into a human? so could for example a pig in the last life be a human and then a snake?
and is there anywhere in ur mind that u know of your previous life?
and if for example you killed a spider then can it come back as a human to attack you?
and how long does the process take? (like will you come back onto earth straight away or it takes time?)

The universe exists since infinity and we exist since them as independent identities. And yes, this phenomenon of taking birth as one form or other is called "Yoni". That means you can have the "yoni" of a horse or crocodile or fish or eucaliptus tree depending on your previous karma.
I would like to mention that the information which i am writing is a hindu view. Islamic view may differ.
Regards

[Sojourn]

And you wont be questioned by the One God and no one else in the middle?

I think our beliefs concerning the Judgment are similar. We both believe in an immediate judgment by God after death, and then a general judgment on the Last Day, unless I was mistaken?

[Rasema]

I think our beliefs concerning the Judgment are similar. We both believe in an immediate judgment by God after death, and then a general judgment on the Last Day, unless I was mistaken?

So, no Jesus(peace be upon him) interfearing?
Our stuff is detailed and I'm sure that yours is too. Very complex and I don't qualify to preach about it.

[Sojourn]

So, no Jesus(peace be upon him) interfearing?
Our stuff is detailed and I'm sure that yours is too. Very complex and I don't qualify to preach about it.

Jesus explicitly revealed that He will be the Judge on the Last Day. It stands as a proof for His Divinity since this role was something ascribed to God. I know from your perspective this is "interfering" but we're just following what Jesus revealed to us.

[Rasema]

Jesus explicitly revealed that He will be the Judge on the Last Day. It stands as a proof for His Divinity since this role was something ascribed to God. I know from your perspective this is "interfering" but we're just following what Jesus revealed to us.

I see,that he is the God who judges. But Jesus(pbuh) isn't God from our point of view.

[indian]

Btw Jesus can be seen through meditation. Maybe this information is not very useful but maybe it can help.

[Sojourn]

I see,that he is the God who judges. But Jesus(pbuh) isn't God from our point of view.

Yes, therein lies the difference. But for the most part our beliefs about the particular judgment after death and the General Judgment on the Last Day are the same.

[Rasema]

Yes, therein lies the difference. But for the most part our beliefs about the particular judgment after death and the General Judgment on the Last Day are the same.

There is a big difference believing that Jesus(pbuh) will be the judge of the mankind and believing that Allah, who is above His creation,separate from His creation. Who we don't know how He looks. Whose knowledge encompasses everything, will judge us. Th ecreator who created Jesus and who created all that exists. That is why He only deserves to be worshiped.Everything is in his hands,as so to speak.

[S_87]

Jesus explicitly revealed that He will be the Judge on the Last Day. It stands as a proof for His Divinity since this role was something ascribed to God. I know from your perspective this is "interfering" but we're just following what Jesus revealed to us.

who will he judge?

[Sojourn]

There is a big difference believing that Jesus(pbuh) will be the judge of the mankind and believing that Allah, who is above His creation,separate from His creation. Who we don't know how He looks. Whose knowledge encompasses everything, will judge us. Th ecreator who created Jesus and who created all that exists. That is why He only deserves to be worshiped.Everything is in his hands,as so to speak.

I will stick with what Jesus revealed about Himself.

[indian]

But there are few humans who become one with the almighty allah. And Jesus is one of them.

[Sojourn]

who will he judge?

Jesus said He will judge mankind.

[Rasema]

I will stick with what Jesus revealed about Himself.

And I will stick to that what God revealed about Him(Jesus) and Himself. Didn't his apostls tell things about Jesus(pbuh)?

[S_87]

The universe exists since infinity and we exist since them as independent identities. And yes, this phenomenon of taking birth as one form or other is called "Yoni". That means you can have the "yoni" of a horse or crocodile or fish or eucaliptus tree depending on your previous karma.
I would like to mention that the information which i am writing is a hindu view. Islamic view may differ.
Regards

yes we definitely do not believe in reincarnation and i am not asking you to answer so i know...im tryna figure out your belief. :)

so theres only one soul that travels through different forms? and does this end or is it just something that will continue eternally? and if youre good will you come back as something good to people?

[S_87]

Jesus said He will judge mankind.

what would be the need for him to judge since he died for the sins of his followers? so what was the point in him dying for them?

[Rasema]

Jesus said He will judge mankind.

Where will God be?

[Sojourn]

what would be the need for him to judge since he died for the sins of his followers? so what was the point in him dying for them?

Some followers are better than others, and some just aren't His followers.

[Sojourn]

Where will God be?

He will be judging mankind.

[S_87]

Some followers are better than others, and some just aren't His followers.

so why exactly did he die?

[Cabdullahi]

Btw Jesus can be seen through meditation. Maybe this information is not very useful but maybe it can help.

yo indian tell me more about this mediation thing can one meditate and have an encounter with best ever chapatii made in human history

[Christian_dove]

Our energy will shift its form. I have spoken with "ghosts", it is only a transformed energy. Whether it has something to do with God or not, I do not know. And neither do any of you guys. :) I believe we will continue into a different life, another dimension, another planet maybe, what do I know. No time no space. My belief is that we will go wherever we expect to go. If you are a muslim, maybe you will go to whatever heaven you believe in (I heard they ran out of virgins, though..). And maybe atheists will turn to dust and the only thing left from them will be in the form of nutrition for flowers and soil. Joke. No offense. I think we will meet our closest family, those who have gone before us. I don't believe neither in the Qur'an or the Bible images of what heaven is, there is just no way of knowing what will be, and it's fine by me. Que sera sera. I am not a christian anymore, I am tired of following books, regulations, laws, morale obligations, etc. I think all holy books are merely symbolic stories. And in some cases, just outright lies. :) If you know that you are a good person, that is enough. If God (if there is one) wants to punish me because I cannot believe in books with unknown and questionable origin, then let it be so. I don't have any fear of this, however, IF there is a God, he is probably not an idiot. I don't think some God would punish someone for being honest and truthful in his search for knowledge and wisdom.

Maybe we are an alien experiment! Ha ha! How come we are the only monkey able to build airplanes? The other ones can't even write their own name. If they have one. But we are clearly monkeys. Why are we so smart and so different from the rest of the pack? Did some alien life form come down and add some advanced genes to some monkeys 250.000 years ago? Who knows. It's no less likely than stories from the bible (or any other religious book), it actually tells about life in other planets, and flying, shining wagons. :)

I think the more intelligent ones leaves their faith and seeks truth somewhere else. Everywhere. Religion is too much focused on power. Those who have power are desperate not to let the small people think for them selves, and perhaps ask questions about their own faith. Less followers will mean less power to the priests, bishops and imams. And other religious characters.

Just some thoughts. Have a nice week.

[Sojourn]

so why exactly did he die?

To redeem mankind

[indian]

Where will God be?

hey

What do you think god is.God is not a creature like us. Infact god is in everyone of us. It's only a matter of time that we remove our "mal" and become one with god. Christ became one with god, so did buddha, so did krishna. and so will we be at the end of this cycle of universe.

[Rasema]

He will be judging mankind.

So you do believe that Jesus is God and not a piece of God.

[S_87]

Our energy will shift its form. I have spoken with "ghosts", it is only a transformed energy. Whether it has something to do with God or not, I do not know. And neither do any of you guys. :) I believe we will continue into a different life, another dimension, another planet maybe, what do I know. No time no space. My belief is that we will go wherever we expect to go. If you are a muslim, maybe you will go to whatever heaven you believe in (I heard they ran out of virgins, though..). And maybe atheists will turn to dust and the only thing left from them will be in the form of nutrition for flowers and soil. Joke. No offense. I think we will meet our closest family, those who have gone before us. I don't believe neither in the Quoran or the Bibles images of what heaven is, there is just no way of knowing what there will be, and it's fine by me.

muslims can take jokes but not of things regarding islam...so that virgin joke? way out of line

[Sojourn]

So you do believe that Jesus is God and not a piece of God.

Yes, there are no "pieces" in God.

[Rasema]

hey

What do you think god is.God is not a creature like us. Infact god is in everyone of us. It's only a matter of time that we remove our "mal" and become one with god. Christ became one with god, so did buddha, so did krishna. and so will we be at the end of this cycle of universe.

Based on,,,your logic?

God isn't a creature. I never said that,astagfirullah.

God is sepparate from is creation.Adn His knowledge encompasses everything.

[Cabdullahi]

19:88]They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!"
19:89]Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!
19:90]At it the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin,
19:91]That they should invoke a son for (Allah) Most Gracious.
19:92]For it is not consonant with the majesty of (Allah) Most Gracious that He should beget a son.
19:93]Not one of the beings in the heavens and the earth but must come to (Allah) Most Gracious as a ''servant.''

even jesus

[Rasema]

Yes, there are no "pieces" in God.

So you don't believe that God is in three?

[S_87]

To redeem mankind

then would you say that was a failure since theres still so much sin and he will still have to judge?

indian. God is Superior to the creation and above mankind.

[indian]

then would you say that was a failure since theres still so much sin and he will still have to judge?

indian. God is Superior to the creation and above mankind.

Then how does he know everything about us.
The fact is he is hadra hadur.

[Sojourn]

19:88]They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!"
19:89]Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!
19:90]At it the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin,
19:91]That they should invoke a son for (Allah) Most Gracious.
19:92]For it is not consonant with the majesty of (Allah) Most Gracious that He should beget a son.
19:93]Not one of the beings in the heavens and the earth but must come to (Allah) Most Gracious as a ''servant.''

even jesus

It depends on what "begotten" means. Humans beget humans through a sexual union. The Quran appears to suggest that Christians believe Jesus came about through a sexual union between God and a woman, and such a thing would truly be monstrous and blasphemous. But that's not what Christians believe. The generation of the Son from the Father is nothing like human generation, in fact the closest resemblance of it is in the human mind. The Son proceeds from the Father the way an idea proceeds from the intellect.

As humans proceed from humans, God proceeds from God.

[Sojourn]

So you don't believe that God is in three?

God is one Being in three Hypostases (or Persons).

[Rasema]

Then how does he know everything about us.
The fact is he is hadra hadur.

His knowledge encompasses everything. He is with us through His knowledge.

[Sojourn]

then would you say that was a failure since theres still so much sin and he will still have to judge?

No because Christ provides the means but we must accept them. It's true that the majority reject Him, but the fact is there is a minority who will make it to heaven through Him.

[Rasema]

God is one Being in three Hypostases (or Persons).

So, you believe that God is in Jesus. But you believe that Jesus is God who judges the mankind.

Where will God, the true God be?

[S_87]

Then how does he know everything about us.
The fact is he is hadra hadur.

Because God is All Aware/All Seeing and All Knowing.

[indian]

All living souls constitute god. That's hindu belief.

[Sojourn]

So, you believe that God is in Jesus. But you believe that Jesus is God who judges the mankind.

Where will God, the true God be?

God is not in Jesus, Jesus *is* God.

The role of Judging the world is in the hands of the Second Person of the Trinity.

[Cabdullahi]

the father should not bear the sins of the son nor shall the son bear the sins of the father everyone will be judged by what they did accordingly this is what the bible says so the concept of original sin and jesus dying for our sins are ladi dadi additions

[indian]

Ok guys and gals.... It's 5'o clock here in the morning. So i am going to bed. It was nice discussing with you all.. Mods may delete this post.

[S_87]

God is not in Jesus, Jesus *is* God.

Generally speaking, how do you think of God? and what do you think of a God appearing in a human form with human needs (eating/sleeping/being harmed/relieving/ and also dying) ? does that not show imperfection to you?

[Sojourn]

the father should not bear the sins of the son nor shall the son bear the sins of the father everyone will be judged by what they did accordingly this is what the bible says so the concept of original sin and jesus dying for our sins are ladi dadi additions

First you have to understand the concept of original sin. We do not inherit the personal sin of Adam, but his fallen state as a result of his personal sin.

[Sojourn]

Generally speaking, how do you think of God? and what do you think of a God appearing in a human form with human needs (eating/sleeping/being harmed/relieving/ and also dying) ? does that not show imperfection to you?

It reveals two things. The omnipotence of God, since only God could do such a thing, and the incomprehensible love of God for His creation, since only a loving God would use His omnipotence in such a way.

As the Apostle John said, we love God because God loved us first.

[Rasema]

First you have to understand the concept of original sin. We do not inherit the personal sin of Adam, but his fallen state as a result of his personal sin.

Just because we are created imperfect doesn't mean we don't have freewill. Angels don't sin. Does taht mean that I should worship them?

[Sojourn]

Just because we are created imperfect doesn't mean we don't have freewill. Angels don't sin. Does taht mean that I should worship them?

I didn't deny we have free will, not sure where you got that from.

[Rasema]

God is not in Jesus, Jesus *is* God.

The role of Judging the world is in the hands of the Second Person of the Trinity.

But Jesus body was whose?

[Sojourn]

But Jesus body was whose?

Jesus is a one Divine Person with *two* *unified* natures, one human and the other Divine. We are not saying flesh = Divinity.

As for the flesh of Christ, it came from His mother Mary.

[Rasema]

I didn't deny we have free will, not sure where you got that from.

Adam(pbuh) was created imperfect that is why he committed a sin because we have free will. Original sin doesn't make us sin is what I mean and Adam was created mperfect to committ the sin. Every thing is prewritten.

[Rasema]

Jesus is a one Divine Person with *two* *unified* natures, one human and the other Divine. We are not saying flesh = Divinity.

As for the flesh of Christ, it came from His mother Mary.

I see, and that divine is God. But then why does God appear on the judgement day as Jesus when Jesus is His son,according to you all. I know, son of Mary not God. He is a son of Mary without a father,according to us.

[Ramadhan]

The Quran appears to suggest that Christians believe Jesus came about through a sexual union between God and a woman, and such a thing would truly be monstrous and blasphemous.

Astaghfirullahaladziem.
Only christians can have such filthy sickening thought about God. And come up with such downright lie!
I challenge you to find and bring it here a verse from the Qur'an that support your filthy view.

But one should not be surprised to read this kind of thing when they read bible who has been changed and altered throughout the millenia to suit whatever human purposes, which for example slander a prophet (Luth pbuh) as having incestuous sex and in some parts read like porn books.

As humans proceed from humans, God proceeds from God.

and now this... god multiplies.

[Sojourn]

Adam(pbuh) was created imperfect that is why he committed a sin because we have free will. Original sin doesn't make us sin is what I mean and Adam was created mperfect to committ the sin. Every thing is prewritten.

Original sin is a state of the soul, it's not something that makes us sin directly. The desire to do something bad even though we know it's sinful is called concupiscence.

We inherit the state of original sin the way children of an excessive gambler inherit their father's poverty.

[Rasema]

The Quran appears to suggest that Christians believe Jesus came about through a sexual union between God and a woman, and such a thing would truly be monstrous and blasphemous.

No it doesn't!

The Qur'an makes it clear that you guys believe that God is from three. There is a vesrse that says it but I don't know exacly where.

We believe that you believe God took to himself a son.

[Sojourn]

I see, and that divine is God. But then why does God appear on the judgement day as Jesus when Jesus is His son,according to you all. I know, son of Mary not God. He is a son of Mary without a father,according to us.

Why is the Son the Judge and not the Father? I'm glad you asked. This is the reason Jesus revealed:


"The Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father."
John 5:22-23

So that the Son may be honored *as* the Father is honored... what an incredibly powerful statement... Can you imagine an ordinary man saying he will be honored on a level equal to God?

[Humbler_359]

:sl:

Sojourn, you are coming here to preach your Jesus, first of all, I need to know what category you are in which part of Christanity? Catholics or Jehovah Witness? Mormon? Amish? Baptist? Saints?

It is important for you to research deeply about the history of Christianity before making comments in which we have another Christians debating same story, same topics, same heat arguments in previous posts.

In your view, you may think we Muslims going to Hell (see your Avator I understood), however please don't waste your time here.

"And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God." (Mark 10:18).

"And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord:" (Mark 12:29)

"Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying Eli, Eli, lama sabachtani? . . ." (Matthew 27:46)- (why are you forsaking me?)

The bible was written by Paul about 30-50 years later after Jesus died. Unfortunately, the bible is a collection of books, stories, personal letters, songs, and poetry. With my due respect, Jesus is no more than Prophet same as life of Moses, Abraham, Noah, lastly Muhammad. All of them are different role models and miracles. Our Creator Allah (God) know the best and what went wrong with these people.

He (Satan) said, "My Lord, since You have willed that I go astray, I will surely entice them on earth; I will send them all astray. Except those among Your worshipers who are devoted absolutely to You alone." He (God) said, "This is a law that is inviolable: you have no power over my servants; you only have power over the strayers who follow you." (15:39-42)

(Satan said,) "I will come to them from before them, and from behind them, and from their right, and from their left, and You will find most of them un-appreciative." (7:17)

What people fail to realize for bible is a combination of many books written over a long time with mistranslations, additions, and doctrines that destroyed the truth. Many things could have been changed from the original til today. It was written by over 40 authors (Peter, King, Mark, Job, John, Luke, Mathew, unknown authors........). You get it?


".....And Don't Say 'Trinity': desist: It will be better for you: For Allah is One God:".... (4:171)

"Do they not consider the Quran (with care)? If it had been from other than God they would have found therein much contradiction and incongruity. (4:82)"

[Rasema]

So that the Son may be honored *as* the Father is honored... what an incredibly powerful statement... Can you imagine an ordinary man saying he will be honored on a level equal to God?

That is messed up!

No one is equal of honor as God. Clear Shirk!

[Sojourn]

Astaghfirullahaladziem.
Only christians can have such filthy sickening thought about God. And such downright lie!

Maybe you missed the part where I said this is what the Quran suggests Christians believe.

and now this... god multiplies.

Does the intellect multiply?

[Sojourn]

No it doesn't!

The Quran suggests Christ was the product of a sexual union when it says Allah has no consort in response to Christians saying Jesus is the Son. The generation of the Son doesn't require a consort.

[Sojourn]

That is messed up!

No one is equal of honor as God. Clear Shirk!

Exactly... now you can't claim Jesus never revealed Himself to be God in the Bible.

[Rasema]

I'm off to bed. Enjoy sojourn:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uomIX...eature=related

[Humbler_359]

:sl:

The Jews call ’Uzayr a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is the saying from their mouth; (In this) they are intimate; what the Unbelievers of the old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the truth. (Qur‘aan 9:30)

[Rasema]

Exactly... now you can't claim Jesus never revealed Himself to be God in the Bible.

I don't claim anything about the Bible. I don't know what in it is God's word what isn't. No chain of authority.

[Sojourn]

I don't claim anything about the Bible. I don't know what in it is God's word what isn't. No chain of authority.

Maybe you should try reading it some time, you don't have to believe anything about it, just read it like a piece of literature.

[Ramadhan]

Maybe you missed the part where I said this is what the Quran suggests Christians believe.

Allah SWT in the Qur'an admonishes the christians for making Jesus pbuh His son.
Tell me, is not what christians believe, that Jesus peace be upon him is the son god?
Or are you now saying that the Qur'an gets it incorrect, and that Jesus pbuh is not the son god?

Does the intellect multiply?

You said "god proceeds from god"

[Humbler_359]

Maybe you should try reading it some time, you don't have to believe anything about it, just read it like a piece of literature.

What about you?

[Rasema]

The Quran suggests Christ was the product of a sexual union when it says Allah has no consort in response to Christians saying Jesus is the Son. The generation of the Son doesn't require a consort.

Neither do I claim what the Qur'an suggests, it's a perfect book.

[Rasema]

Maybe you should try reading it some time, you don't have to believe anything about it, just read it like a piece of literature.

I've attepted reading it. The King James version. To tell you the truth, It was really boring. The chapter that talks about desedents of the Prophets(pbut). The stuff that caught my attention was when Abraham(pbuh) prostrated to his Lord. It confuses me because the old testament is so different to the new testament.

[Sojourn]

Allah SWT in the Qur'an admonishes the christians for making Jesus pbuh His son.
Tell me, is not what christians believe, that Jesus is the son god?

The problem is it incorrectly suggests Christians believe He is the Son through a sexual union, something like Hercules.

You said "god proceeds from god"

[/quote]

Right, the point is that since the Son proceeds from the Father, they are one in Being.

[Sojourn]

I've attepted reading it. The King James version. To tell you the truth, It was really boring. The chapter that talks about desedents of the Prophets(pbut). The stuff that caught my attention was when Abraham(pbuh) prostrated to his Lord. It confuses me because the old testament is so different to the new testament.

Have you tried reading the Gospels?

[Rasema]

The problem is it incorrectly suggests Christians believe He is the Son through a sexual union, something like Hercules.

There are so many sects in Christianity. Some might or might have. However, I don't know if the Qur'an suggests that all I know is that it slearly says that Christians believe that God is from three. I wish I could quote the verse.

[Rasema]

Have you tried reading the Gospels?

Yeah, I don't understand nothing of it!

Some things struct me though. The songs of Solemon. What in the world?

[Sojourn]

There are so many sects in Christianity. Some might or might have. However, I don't know if the Qur'an suggests that all I know is that it slearly says that Christians believe that God is from three. I wish I could quote the verse.

There are sects in Islam too.

There's no need to quote the aya I'm familiar with it.

[Sojourn]

Yeah, I don't understand nothing of it!

Some things struct me though. The songs of Solemon. What in the world?

When I read the Bible for the first time as a non-Christian it didn't make sense to me either. I think the reason is I had the wrong disposition and intention. I was reading to disprove it. But years later when I decided to sincerely read it to get to know Jesus and His message, His grace was able to work on my heart and it had a profound effect on me.

[Rasema]

There are sects in Islam too.

I wasn't criticizing the Christians for having sects not putting them down. The purpose I said it is because, read it again. As for us having sects. We all share the most important stuff. We all believe almost the same thing. We ahare the most important belief. The 6 basic systems.

[Rasema]

When I read the Bible for the first time as a non-Christian it didn't make sense to me either. I think the reason is I had the wrong disposition and intention. I was reading to disprove it. But years later when I decided to sincerely read it to get to know Jesus and His message, His grace was able to work on my heart and it had a profound effect on me.

It's sexual and I'm not allowed to read sexual stuff. The songs of Solemon are.

[Sojourn]

I wasn't criticizing the Christians for having sects not putting them down. The purpose I said it is because, read it again. As for us having sects. We all share the most important stuff. We all believe almost the same thing.

I see what you're saying. That there was a sect of "Christians" (if we can even use that term) in the Hijaaz that were so ignorant of their faith that they thought Jesus came about through a sexual union?

The point is the Quran's argument against Jesus being the Son of God doesn't apply to what Christians believe.

[Rasema]

The point is the Quran's argument against Jesus being the Son of God doesn't apply to what Christians believe.

The point of the Qur'an being against the son part is because of Shirk. Shirk is something I take very seriously. What is a son? You can say the son is God all you want but in reality we all know what a son is.

[Sojourn]

The point of the Qur'an being against the son part is because of Shirk. Shirk is something I take very seriously. What is a son? You can say the son is God all you want but in reality we all know what a son is.

Shirk is serious, but in Jesus' case He was the real deal.

Anyway Rasema, I better get some sleep as well! It was nice chatting, we can continue later.

[Ramadhan]

The problem is it incorrectly suggests Christians believe He is the Son through a sexual union, something like Hercules.

Then, as I said before, bring forth the verse that support your view, otherwise keep your filthy opinion/slanderous lie to yourself.

Right, the point is that since the Son proceeds from the Father, they are one in Being.

so because they have to be together to be "in Being", meaning one is incomplete without another?

and where is the holy spirit now?

[Rasema]

Shirk is serious, but in Jesus' case He was the real deal.

Anyway Rasema, I better get some sleep as well! It was nice chatting, we can continue later.

What do you mean? So you admit that you do Shirk? Because Jesus is the real deal.

[Sojourn]

What do you mean? So you admit that you do Shirk? Because Jesus is the real deal.

I mean Jesus didn't commit Shirk because He is God. So when He said He is to be honored just as the Father is honored, this wasn't Shirk.

[Rasema]

In case you don't know what shirk is explicidly: “This is the Guidance of Allaah with which He guides whomsoever He will of His slaves…” [al-An’aam 6:88]

“And whomsoever Allaah wills to guide, He opens his breast to Islam…” [al-An’aam 6:125]

With regard to this important question – who do the Muslims worship? – the answer is to be found in the Holy Qur’aan, which is the Scripture of Islam, and in the words of the Prophet of Islam, Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) who received Revelation from his Lord.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“In the name of Allaah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful. All praises and thanks be to Allaah, the Lord of the ‘Aalameen (mankind, jinns and all that exists), the Most Beneficient, the Most Merciful, the Only Owner (and the Only Ruling Judge) of the Day of Recompense (i.e., the Day of Resurrection). You (Alone) we worship, and You (alone) we ask for help (for each and every thing).” [al-Faatihah 1:1-5]

“O mankind! Worship your Lord (Allaah), Who has created you and those before you so that you may become al-muttaqoon (the pious).” [al-Baqarah 2:21]

“Such is Allaah, your Lord! None has the right to be worshipped but He, the Creator of all things. So worship Him (Alone), and He is the Wakeel (Trustee, Disposer of affairs, Guardian) over all things.”[al-An’aam 6:102]

“And your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him, and that you be dutiful to your parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age in your life, say not to them a word of disrespect, nor shout at them but address them in terms of honour.” [al-Isra’ 17:23]

Muslim worship Allaah [the One True God] whom all the Prophets worshipped. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Or were you witnesses when death approached Ya’qoob [Jacob]? When he said unto his sons, ‘What will you worship after me?’ They said, ‘We shall worship your God, the God of your fathers, Ibraaheem [Abraham], Ismaa’eel [Ishmael] and Is-haaq [Isaac], One God, and to Him we submit (in Islam).” [al-Baqarah 2:133]

The Muslims worship Allaah and call others who follow different religions to worship Allaah Alone, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Say [O Muhammad]: ‘O People of the Scripture [Jews and Christians]: come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but Allaah, and we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides Allaah.’ Then, if they turn away, say, ‘Bear witness that we are Muslims.’” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:64]

It is Allaah Alone Whom Nooh [Noah] (peace be upon him) called his people to worship, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Indeed, We sent Nooh [Noah] to his people and he said: ‘O my people! Worship Allaah! You have no other god but Him. Certainly, I fear for you the torment of a Great Day!.’” [al-A’raaf 7:59]

It is Allaah Alone whom the Messiah [Jesus] (peace be upon him) called people to worship, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Surely they have disbelieved who say: ‘Allaah is the Messiah [Jesus] son of Maryam [Mary].’ But the Messiah said: ‘O Children of Israel! Worship Allaah, my Lord and your Lord.’ Verily, whosoever sets up partners in worship with Allaah, then Allaah has forbidden Paradise for him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the zaalimoon (polytheists and wrong-doers) there are no helpers.” [al-Maa’idah 5:73]

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And (remember) when Allaah will say (on the Day of Resurrection): ‘O ‘Eesa [Jesus], son of Maryam [Mary]! Did you say unto men: ‘Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allaah?’ He will say: ‘Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner-self though I do not know what is in Yours. You, only You, are the All-Knower of all that is hidden and unseen.

Never did I say to them aught except what You (Allaah) did command me to say: “Worship Allaah, my Lord and your Lord.” And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a Witness to all things.’”[al-Maa’idah 5:116-117]

When Allaah spoke to His Prophet Moosa [Moses] (peace be upon him), He said (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, I am Allaah! None has the right to be worshipped but I, so worship Me, and perform al-Salaah [prayer] for My Remembrance.”

[Ta-Ha 20:14]

Allaah commanded His Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) as follows (interpretation of the meaning):

“Say [O Muhammad]: ‘O mankind! If you are in doubt as to my religion (Islam), then (know that) I will never worship those whom you worship, besides Allaah. But I worship Allaah Who causes you to die, I am commanded to be one of the believers.” [Yoonus 10:104]

It is Him Alone, with no partner or associate, Whom the angels worship and do not worship anyone or anything besides Him, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“To Him belongs whosoever is in the heavens and on earth. And those who are near Him (i.e., the angels) are not too proud to worship Him, nor are they weary (of His worship).”[al-Anbiya’ 21:19]

Everything that is worshipped instead of Allaah can neither bring benefit nor cause harm, it can neither create nor provide. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Say (O Muhammad, to mankind); ‘How do you worship besides Allaah something which has no power either to harm or to benefit you? But it is Allaah Who is the All-Hearer, All-Knower.’” [al-Maa’idah 5:76]

“You worship besides Allaah only idols, and you only invent falsehood. Verily, those whom you worship besides Allaah have no power to give you provision, so seek your provision from Allaah (Alone), and worship Him (Alone), and be grateful to Him. To Him (Alone) you will be brought back.” [al-‘Ankaboot 29:17]

Having explained this, we must complete the topic by asking: why should we worship Allaah Alone with no partner or associate? The answer is as follows:

Firstly: because there is nothing and nobody else in the universe that deserves to be worshipped, for Allaah is the Creator and Sustainer, Who has created the universe out of nothing and has bestowed so many blessings upon us. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“So glorify Allaah, when you come up to the evening [i.e., offer the Maghrib (sunset) and ‘Isha’ (night) prayers], and when you enter the morning [I.e., offer the Fajr (morning) prayers].

And His is all the praise and thanks in the heavens and the earth, and (glorify Him) in the afternoon [i.e., offer ‘Asr (mid-afternoon) prayer] and when you come up to the time when the day begins to decline [i.e., offer the Zuhr (mid-day) prayer].

He brings out the living from the dead, and brings out the dead from the living. And He revives the earth after its death, and thus shall you be brought out (resurrected).

And among His Signs is this, that He created you (Adam) from dust, and then [Hawwa (Eve) from Adam’s rib, then his offspring from the semen, and], - behold you are human beings scattered!

And among His Signs is this, that He created for you wives from among yourselves, that you may find repose in them, and He has put between you affection and mercy. Verily, in that are indeed signs for a people who reflect.

And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. Verily in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge.

And among His Signs is the sleep that you take by night and by day, and your seeking of His Bounty. Verily, in that are indeed signs for a people who listen.

And among His Signs is that He shows you the lightning, by way of fear and hope, and He sends down water (rain) from the sky, and therewith revives the earth after its death. Verily, in that are indeed signs for a people who understand.

And among His Signs is that the heaven and the earth stand by His Command, then afterwards when He will call you by single call, behold, you will come out from the earth (ie.e, from your graves, for reckoning and recompense).

To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and the earth. All are obedient to Him.

And He it is Who originates the creation, then will repeat it (after it has perished), and this is easier for Him. His is the highest description (i.e., none has the right to be worshipped but He, and there is nothing comparable unto Him) in the heavens and in the earth. And He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.” [al-Room 30: 17-27]

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Is not He (better than your gods) Who created the heavens and the earth, and sends down for you water (rain) from the sky, whereby We cause to grow wonderful gardens full of beauty and delight? It is not in your ability to cause the growth of their trees. Is there any god with Allaah? Nay, but they are a people who ascribe equals (to Him)!

Is not he (better than you gods) Who has made the earth as a fixed abode, and has placed rivers in its midst, and has placed firm mountains therein, and has set a barrier between the two seas (of salt and sweet water). Is there any god with Allaah? Nay, but most of them know not.

Is not He (better than your gods) Who responds to the distressed one, when He calls Him, and Who removes the evil, generations after generations. Is there any god with Allaah? Little is it that you remember!

Is not He (better than your gods) Who guides you in the darkness of the land and the sea, and Who sends the winds as heralds of glad tidings, going before His mercy (rain)? Is there any god with Allaah? High Exalted be Allaah above all that they associate as partners (to Him)!

Is not He (better than your so-called gods) Who originates creation, and shall thereafter repeat it, and Who provides for you from heaven and earth? Is there any god with Allaah? Say: ‘bring forth your proofs, if you are truthful’

Say: ‘None on the heavens and the earth knows the unseen except Allaah, nor can they perceive when they shall be resurrected.’”

[al-Naml 27:60-65]

So is there anyone or anything besides Allaah that deserves to be worshipped?

Secondly: Allaah did not create us except to worship Him, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And I (Allaah) created not the jinns and humans except they should worship Me (Alone).”[al-Dhaariyaat 51:56]

Thirdly: No one will be saved on the Day of Resurrection except those who used to worship Allaah truly and sincerely. After death Allaah will resurrect His slaves and call them to account, rewarding or punishing them according to their deeds. No one will be saved on that day except for those who used to worship Allaah Alone. The rest will be gathered into a Hell, a terrible fate! The Prophet of Islam, Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), was asked by his Companions: “Will we see our Lord on the Day of Resurrection?” He told them:

“Do you doubt that you can see the sun and the moon when the sky is clear?” We [his Companions] said, “No.” He said, “Then you should not doubt that you will see your Lord on that Day, you will see Him as you see them (the sun and moon).” Then he said, “A caller will call out, ‘Let every people go to that which they used to worship.’ So the worshippers of the cross will go with their cross, the worshippers of idols will go with their idols and the worshippers of every god will go with their gods, until there will be left those who used to worship Allaah, whether they were righteous or otherwise, and a few of the People of the Book [Jews and Christians]. Then Hell will be brought and shown to them as if it is a mirage. It will be said to the Jews, ‘What did you used to worship?’ They will say, ‘We used to worship ‘Uzayr, the son of God.’ It will be said, ‘You have lied. Allaah does not have a wife or son. What do you want?’ They will say, ‘We want something to drink.’ It will be said to them, ‘Drink!’ and they will fall into Hell. Then it will be said to the Christians, ‘What did you used to worship?’ They will say, ‘We used to worship the Messiah, the son of God.’ It will be said, ‘You have lied. Allaah does not have a wife or son. What do you want?’ They will say, ‘We want something to drink.’ It will be said to them, ‘Drink!’ and they will fall into Hell. Then there will be left those who used to worship Allaah, whether they were righteous or otherwise. It will be said to them, ‘What are you waiting for? All the people have gone.’ They will say, ‘We have separated from them and we need Him more today. We heard a caller saying that every people should follow that which they used to worship, so we are waiting for our Lord.’ He will say, ‘Al-Jabbaar [the Compeller, i.e., Allaah] will come…’ And He will say, ‘I am your Lord.’ They will say, ‘You are our Lord,’ but none will speak to Him except the Prophets… then every believer will prostrate to Him.” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, no. 6886). These believers are the people of Paradise on whom shall be no fear neither shall they grieve, and they will dwell therein for ever.

We hope that this matter has now become clear. In conclusion we can say nothing except that which Allaah has said (interpretation of the meaning):

“Whoever goes right, then he goes right only for the benefit of his ownself. And whoever goes stray, then he goes astray to his own loss…” [al-Isra’ 17:15]

Peace be upon him who follows the guidance..


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Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid







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[Ramadhan]

Shirk is serious, but in Jesus' case He was the real deal.

Talk is cheap.
Evidence is, christians do not take shirk seriously.

christians pray to statues/images/likeness of Jesus pbuh, saints, Mary, etc.
Not different at all than pagan practices.

but obviously, if you can ascribe a son to God, then everything else is a fair go.

[Rasema]

I mean Jesus didn't commit Shirk because He is God. So when He said He is to be honored just as the Father is honored, this wasn't Shirk.

Okay... Jesus and God are two sepparate things.

You believe that God resides in Jesus.

I never said tha tjesus(pbuh) committed shirk but you do by assosiating partners,in some way, to God.

[Humbler_359]

Sojourn, I got that you are Roman Catholics. Unnecessary too many idols there even St. Mary that people worshipped Mary as well as Jesus.

What is your best experience confessing, sinning with Pope through God in your Church?

You have to REMEMBER this is ISLAMICBOARD, not Jesusboard with your stupid preaching. I understood bible, christians, and so on very well. No wonder you didn't answer my questions.

Otherwise you try to mislead people here, you will be ban surely.

[Rasema]

Firstly: because there is nothing and nobody else in the universe that deserves to be worshipped, for Allaah is the Creator and Sustainer, Who has created the universe out of nothing and has bestowed so many blessings upon us. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“So glorify Allaah, when you come up to the evening [i.e., offer the Maghrib (sunset) and ‘Isha’ (night) prayers], and when you enter the morning [I.e., offer the Fajr (morning) prayers].

And His is all the praise and thanks in the heavens and the earth, and (glorify Him) in the afternoon [i.e., offer ‘Asr (mid-afternoon) prayer] and when you come up to the time when the day begins to decline [i.e., offer the Zuhr (mid-day) prayer].

He brings out the living from the dead, and brings out the dead from the living. And He revives the earth after its death, and thus shall you be brought out (resurrected).

And among His Signs is this, that He created you (Adam) from dust, and then [Hawwa (Eve) from Adam’s rib, then his offspring from the semen, and], - behold you are human beings scattered!

And among His Signs is this, that He created for you wives from among yourselves, that you may find repose in them, and He has put between you affection and mercy. Verily, in that are indeed signs for a people who reflect.

And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. Verily in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge.

And among His Signs is the sleep that you take by night and by day, and your seeking of His Bounty. Verily, in that are indeed signs for a people who listen.

And among His Signs is that He shows you the lightning, by way of fear and hope, and He sends down water (rain) from the sky, and therewith revives the earth after its death. Verily, in that are indeed signs for a people who understand.

And among His Signs is that the heaven and the earth stand by His Command, then afterwards when He will call you by single call, behold, you will come out from the earth (ie.e, from your graves, for reckoning and recompense).

To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and the earth. All are obedient to Him.

And He it is Who originates the creation, then will repeat it (after it has perished), and this is easier for Him. His is the highest description (i.e., none has the right to be worshipped but He, and there is nothing comparable unto Him) in the heavens and in the earth. And He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.” [al-Room 30: 17-27]

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Is not He (better than your gods) Who created the heavens and the earth, and sends down for you water (rain) from the sky, whereby We cause to grow wonderful gardens full of beauty and delight? It is not in your ability to cause the growth of their trees. Is there any god with Allaah? Nay, but they are a people who ascribe equals (to Him)!

Is not he (better than you gods) Who has made the earth as a fixed abode, and has placed rivers in its midst, and has placed firm mountains therein, and has set a barrier between the two seas (of salt and sweet water). Is there any god with Allaah? Nay, but most of them know not.

Is not He (better than your gods) Who responds to the distressed one, when He calls Him, and Who removes the evil, generations after generations. Is there any god with Allaah? Little is it that you remember!

Is not He (better than your gods) Who guides you in the darkness of the land and the sea, and Who sends the winds as heralds of glad tidings, going before His mercy (rain)? Is there any god with Allaah? High Exalted be Allaah above all that they associate as partners (to Him)!

Is not He (better than your so-called gods) Who originates creation, and shall thereafter repeat it, and Who provides for you from heaven and earth? Is there any god with Allaah? Say: ‘bring forth your proofs, if you are truthful’

Say: ‘None on the heavens and the earth knows the unseen except Allaah, nor can they perceive when they shall be resurrected.’”

[al-Naml 27:60-65]

So is there anyone or anything besides Allaah that deserves to be worshipped?

Secondly: Allaah did not create us except to worship Him, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And I (Allaah) created not the jinns and humans except they should worship Me (Alone).”[al-Dhaariyaat 51:56]

Thirdly: No one will be saved on the Day of Resurrection except those who used to worship Allaah truly and sincerely. After death Allaah will resurrect His slaves and call them to account, rewarding or punishing them according to their deeds. No one will be saved on that day except for those who used to worship Allaah Alone. The rest will be gathered into a Hell, a terrible fate! The Prophet of Islam, Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), was asked by his Companions: “Will we see our Lord on the Day of Resurrection?” He told them:

“Do you doubt that you can see the sun and the moon when the sky is clear?” We [his Companions] said, “No.” He said, “Then you should not doubt that you will see your Lord on that Day, you will see Him as you see them (the sun and moon).” Then he said, “A caller will call out, ‘Let every people go to that which they used to worship.’ So the worshippers of the cross will go with their cross, the worshippers of idols will go with their idols and the worshippers of every god will go with their gods, until there will be left those who used to worship Allaah, whether they were righteous or otherwise, and a few of the People of the Book [Jews and Christians]. Then Hell will be brought and shown to them as if it is a mirage. It will be said to the Jews, ‘What did you used to worship?’ They will say, ‘We used to worship ‘Uzayr, the son of God.’ It will be said, ‘You have lied. Allaah does not have a wife or son. What do you want?’ They will say, ‘We want something to drink.’ It will be said to them, ‘Drink!’ and they will fall into Hell. Then it will be said to the Christians, ‘What did you used to worship?’ They will say, ‘We used to worship the Messiah, the son of God.’ It will be said, ‘You have lied. Allaah does not have a wife or son. What do you want?’ They will say, ‘We want something to drink.’ It will be said to them, ‘Drink!’ and they will fall into Hell. Then there will be left those who used to worship Allaah, whether they were righteous or otherwise. It will be said to them, ‘What are you waiting for? All the people have gone.’ They will say, ‘We have separated from them and we need Him more today. We heard a caller saying that every people should follow that which they used to worship, so we are waiting for our Lord.’ He will say, ‘Al-Jabbaar [the Compeller, i.e., Allaah] will come…’ And He will say, ‘I am your Lord.’ They will say, ‘You are our Lord,’ but none will speak to Him except the Prophets… then every believer will prostrate to Him.” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, no. 6886). These believers are the people of Paradise on whom shall be no fear neither shall they grieve, and they will dwell therein for ever.

We hope that this matter has now become clear. In conclusion we can say nothing except that which Allaah has said (interpretation of the meaning):

“Whoever goes right, then he goes right only for the benefit of his ownself. And whoever goes stray, then he goes astray to his own loss…” [al-Isra’ 17:15]

Peace be upon him who follows the guidance..



I hope that this is better.

[Ramadhan]

Rasema, I understand you enthusiasm in refuting the sickening claim that jesus pbuh is son god, but your text fonts are a bit too much I think, making it harder to read :)

[Rasema]

Well, now show me your God.

[Rasema]

Rasema, I understand you enthusiasm in refuting the sickening claim that jesus pbuh is son god, but your text fonts are a bit too much I think, making it harder to read :)

They are perfect. Because you feel Allah's words bigger.

[Humbler_359]

Kindly request Moderator, please close this pointless thread, Sojourn think that he is better explanation than other Christians here to convince Muslims. Absurd.

[Humbler_359]

Rasema, I understand you enthusiasm in refuting the sickening claim that jesus pbuh is son god, but your text fonts are a bit too much I think, making it harder to read :)

Well, now show me your God.

They are perfect. Because you feel Allah's words bigger.

Lol, Allah's words are always bigger and wider. I couldn't even catch all sentences you red post, it is too big for our eyes..imsad

[Rasema]

Kindly request Moderator, please close this pointless thread, Sojourn think that he is better explanation than other Christians here to convince Muslims. Absurd.

Um If he thinks he can convince me, he is wasting his time.

[Humbler_359]

Um If he thinks he can convince me, he is wasting his time.

Yep, it is. I don't understand his methods. What is the point for him to coming IB here? Only convince Rasema, :raging:

[Humbler_359]

Good Night everyone! Keep Du'as before making your sleep!

:wa:

[Rasema]

May Allah,subhana wa ta'ala, keep us in the rememberance of the herafter.Ameen

[Altair ibnu]

What about paganism views ?

[Sojourn]

I never said tha tjesus(pbuh) committed shirk but you do by assosiating partners,in some way, to God.

Jesus said He will be the Judge on the Last Day so that He may be honored just as the Father is honored. If an ordinary man were saying this he would be committing Shirk, but since Jesus is Divine and the Three Persons are one in Being, there is no shirk.

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

....taking birth as one form or other is called "Yoni". That means you can have the "yoni" of a horse or crocodile or fish or eucaliptus tree depending on your previous karma.

When Hindus slaughter goats , chickens etc , how they are sure that these animals are not their relatives who died few years back ? To make sure that one does not eat meat of his/her own dead parent / relative , is there any pre-caution ?