Wife Beating

[Omar_4]

Many people claim that wife beating is allowed or encouraged in islam. They use several quotes from the Quran. When I asked my mom, she immediately said it was haram (prohibited), she denounced it. I was wondering is someone could clarify or discuss wife beating.

Thank you, Ramadan Mubarak

[Alphadude]

realy good question i would love to know the answer is well.

[touba]

Many people claim that wife beating is allowed or encouraged in islam. They use several quotes from the Quran. When I asked my mom, she immediately said it was haram (prohibited), she denounced it. I was wondering is someone could clarify or discuss wife beating.

Thank you, Ramadan Mubarak

It is haram in the islam to beat your wife and you must be good to her and always Allah SWT mention about it in the Koran and our prophet Mohammed SAAS treated very very nice his wife .

I think you get confusd in one surah about you can beat your wife but not real beating only to make her afraid to do so if she refuse to make love with you thats all part from that it is haram to beat the wife

Ramadan Mubarak Karim Inshallah

[limitless]

:sl:

Islam does not encourage beating one's wife, at all. The only condition where it is permissible to do so is in a very very bad circumstance.

"According to the Qur'an the relationship between the husband and wife should be based on mutual love and kindness. Allah says: "And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquility with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts): verily in that are Signs for those who reflect." (Ar-Rum: 21)


The Qur'an urges husbands to treat their wives with kindness. [In the event of a family dispute, the Qur'an exhorts the husband to treat his wife kindly and not to overlook her positive aspects]. Allah Almighty says: “Live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good.” (An-Nisa’: 19)


It is important that a wife recognizes the authority of her husband in the house. He is the head of the household, and she is supposed to listen to him. But the husband should also use his authority with respect and kindness towards his wife. If there arises any disagreement or dispute among them, then it should be resolved in a peaceful manner. Spouses should seek the counsel of their elders and other respectable family members and friends to batch up the rift and solve the differences.

However, in some cases a husband may use some light disciplinary action in order to correct the moral infraction of his wife, but this is only applicable in extreme cases and it should be resorted to if one is sure it would improve the situation. However, if there is a fear that it might worsen the relationship or may wreak havoc on him or the family, then he should avoid it completely.

The Qur'an is very clear on this issue. Almighty Allah says: "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more strength than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient and guard in the husband's absence what Allah would have them to guard. As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance); for Allah is most High and Great (above you all). If you fear a breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family and the other from hers. If they wish for peace, Allah will cause their reconciliation; for Allah has full knowledge and is acquainted with all things." (An-Nisa': 34-35)

It is important to read the section fully. One should not take part of the verse and use it to justify one's own misconduct. This verse neither permits violence nor condones it. It guides us to ways to handle delicate family situation with care and wisdom. The word "beating" is used in the verse, but it does not mean "physical abuse". The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) explained it "dharban ghayra mubarrih" which means "a light tap that leaves no mark". He further said that face must be avoided. Some other scholars are of the view that it is no more than a light touch by siwak, or toothbrush.

Generally, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) used to discourage his followers from taking even this measure. He never hit any female, and he used to say that the best of men are those who do not hit their wives. In one hadith he expressed his extreme repulsion from this behavior and said, "How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then embrace (sleep with) her?” (Al-Bukhari, English Translation, vol. 8, Hadith 68, pp. 42-43)

It is also important to note that even this "light strike" mentioned in the verse is not to be used to correct some minor problem, but it is permissible to resort to only in a situation of some serious moral misconduct when admonishing the wife fails, and avoiding from sleeping with her would not help. If this disciplinary action can correct a situation and save the marriage, then one should use it."


I believe what I have taken from a reliable source, is sufficient to answer your question. So it is allowed only lightly to hit her physically, but thats the very last resort. When her disobeidence towards her husband and marital obiligations are ignored and her bad habits do not change at all. But even then, you should not use physical means to correct her, there are other ways to deal with the situation :) .

Source: http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503544256

:wa:

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[limitless]

It is haram in the islam to beat your wife and you must be good to her and always Allah SWT mention about it in the Koran and our prophet Mohammed SAAS treated very very nice his wife .

I think you get confusd in one surah about you can beat your wife but not real beating only to make her afraid to do so if she refuse to make love with you thats all part from that it is haram to beat the wife

Ramadan Mubarak Karim Inshallah

Sis, i don't believe you can state "haraam" unless an imaam or scholar says so. And they haven't said "it is haraam", that means forbidden. You may, beat her slightly, when I say that, i mean slightly as in slightly, a tap or something I suppose. The violent beating as in some men do....that is totally unacceptable.

[touba]

Sis, i don't believe you can state "haraam" unless an imaam or scholar says so. And they haven't said "it is haraam", that means forbidden. You may, beat her slightly, when I say that, i mean slightly as in slightly, a tap or something I suppose. The violent beating as in some men do....that is totally unacceptable.

Why should i wait for a imam or scholar to tell me if it is haram or halal , Im muslim hamdollah i read koran in arabic and understand the meaning in arabic as iam arab origin so i know what im saying.

Our prophet Mohammed SAAS never beat his wifes , as i said you can beat her slightly only to make her afraid in one case if she refuse to make love with you as a husband thats all.

[markislam]

beating = slight touching that is all, not real beating lol :)

[Rasema]

Assalamu Alikum wa rahmatu Allahi wa barakatuhu

You see in Christianity divorce is not permitted at all. In Islam it is,but it's disliked by Allah. So, the couple should try their best to keep their marrage.

In this case a man can HIT not BEAT his wife after he has tried all verbal and communicational attempts. The Qur'an says like sleeping in the separate beds...

If things don't work out then you shall divorce.

There are verses in the Qur'an that prohibit man from harrasing woman etc...


what the holy quran says about woman [for those who criticize islam] bismila hira hman ira him [i know didnt spell it right]


AND FOR WOMAN ARE RIGHTS OVER MAN SIMILAR TO THOSE OF MAN OVER WOMAN [2:226]

the Quran admonishes those men who oppress or ill treat woman: bismilahirahmanirahim O you who believe! you are forbidden to inherit woman against their will. Nor should you treat them with harshness,that you may take away part of the dowry you have given them -except when they have become guilty of open lewdness. On the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity.if you takea dislike to them, it may be that you dislike something and Allah will bring about through it a great deal of good.

[Snowflake]

Originally Posted by touba
It is haram in the islam to beat your wife and you must be good to her and always Allah SWT mention about it in the Koran and our prophet Mohammed SAAS treated very very nice his wife .

I think you get confusd in one surah about you can beat your wife but not real beating only to make her afraid to do so if she refuse to make love with you thats all part from that it is haram to beat the wife

Ramadan Mubarak Karim Inshallah

It's confusing when you say, it's haram to beat wife but ok to beat her lightly. It suggests that a husband may just go ahead and beat his wife at any time of her refusal of his maritals rights. This is not so. In the case of a wife unjustifiably, withholding the husbands right in the marital bed, he first has to admonish her and remind her of Allah's punishment. If she continues to disobey him he should leave the marital bed and not speak to her for three days. If after that she persists in disobedience to him, he should strike her lightly; the strike being the equivalent of tapping with a miswak.

Prophet Muhammad (P) discouraged this measure. Among his sayings are the following: "Do not beat the female servants of Allah;" "Some (women) visited my family complaining about their husbands (beating them). These (husbands) are not the best of you;" and"[It is not a shame that] one of you beats his wife like [an unscrupulous person] beats a slave and maybe he sleeps with her at the end of the day." (See Riyadh Al-Saliheen, op.cit,p.p. 137-140). In another hadith the Prophet(P) said:

...How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then he may embrace (sleep with) her?... (Sahih Al-Bukhari,op.cit., vol.8.hadith 68,pp.42-43).

[czgibson]

Greetings,

From an outsider's point of view this all looks deeply unsettling. It is impossible to say for sure exactly what the Qur'an means when it says "beat them", but people can and do interpret the verse themselves.

However, in some cases a husband may use some light disciplinary action in order to correct the moral infraction of his wife, but this is only applicable in extreme cases and it should be resorted to if one is sure it would improve the situation. However, if there is a fear that it might worsen the relationship or may wreak havoc on him or the family, then he should avoid it completely.

Surely a violent man who feels like beating his wife might well be convinced in that moment that it's going to improve the situation? That doesn't make it right.

It is important to read the section fully. One should not take part of the verse and use it to justify one's own misconduct. This verse neither permits violence nor condones it.

It permits and condones beating.

It guides us to ways to handle delicate family situation with care and wisdom. The word "beating" is used in the verse, but it does not mean "physical abuse". The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) explained it "dharban ghayra mubarrih" which means "a light tap that leaves no mark".

It's possible to hit someone quite hard without leaving a mark. If no mark is left on an abused woman, it's her word against his on how hard the beating was.

He further said that face must be avoided. Some other scholars are of the view that it is no more than a light touch by siwak, or toothbrush.

It is staggering to think that these scholars believe that a tap with a toothbrush is going to work as some kind of discipline method.

The bottom line is: large numbers of men could come away from a reading of the Qur'an convinced that god has told them it's OK to beat their wives. They may be wrong in their belief, but why would an omniscient god allow them such a dangerous loophole like this?

Peace

[Rasema]

When it's necessary you can hit your wife.

[markislam]

When it's necessary you can hit your wife.

so sister if your husband beats your you are fine with it ?

beating and hiting are both the same ;D

if a wife does wrong try to hit her like in the movies in a joking way ;D and i am sure she will like it too :p

[Rasema]

so sister if your husband beats your you are fine with it ?

beating and hiting are both the same ;D

if a wife does wrong try to hit her like in the movies in a joking way ;D and i am sure she will like it too :p

Please read my other post.

Beating is different from hiting!

A good Muslim husband would not beat his wife for no reason. If I desearved it than that would remind me to become better. It is necessary sometimes, it depends on how the wife is.

Please, just because you think that something is wrong doesn't mean it is.

'Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not."

Read the previous posts before judgeing.

[touba]

It's confusing when you say, it's haram to beat wife but ok to beat her lightly. It suggests that a husband may just go ahead and beat his wife at any time of her refusal of his maritals rights. This is not so. In the case of a wife unjustifiably, withholding the husbands right in the marital bed, he first has to admonish her and remind her of Allah's punishment. If she continues to disobey him he should leave the marital bed and not speak to her for three days. If after that she persists in disobedience to him, he should strike her lightly; the strike being the equivalent of tapping with a miswak.

Sister the koran is clear and you can beat your wife only if she refuse the husband in the bed part of that is not allowed to beat or hit the wife but if she does zina then it should be stoned .

[GuestFellow]

Greetings,

It is staggering to think that these scholars believe that a tap with a toothbrush is going to work as some kind of discipline method.

I think it is more of a warning. If that fails to work the husband could take further action such as divorce etc. I don't think it is for discipline.

[markislam]

i think beating on the bed part is a kind of rape on the wife just what i think imsad

Sister the koran is clear and you can beat your wife only if she refuse the husband in the bed part of that is not allowed to beat or hit the wife but if she does zina then it should be stoned .

[Snowflake]

czgibson;1206588]Greetings,

From an outsider's point of view this all looks deeply unsettling. It is impossible to say for sure exactly what the Qur'an means when it says "beat them", but people can and do interpret the verse themselves

.
No offence, but aren't you also being one of those who interpret the verses themselves? The Quran states we must offer salah (daily prayers) but doesn't give details of it. These, as well as the details of disciplining the wife, are explained in the hadiths of the Prophet (saw). I take you have read when, where and how the term the 'beating' applies?

Surely a violent man who feels like beating his wife might well be convinced in that moment that it's going to improve the situation? That doesn't make it right.

Any man who implements the teachings of Islam in his life, would not be violent to his wife or anyone else in the first place, and would know his limits. Whatsmore is, a non religious man isn't going to beat his wife to 'improve' a situation but to punish her. And we have those in all walks of life.

It permits and condones beating.

No, you think the translation permits and condones it. As bro Limitless, stated, 'The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) explained it "dharban ghayra mubarrih" which means "a light tap that leaves no mark".

It's possible to hit someone quite hard without leaving a mark. If no mark is left on an abused woman, it's her word against his on how hard the beating was.

Where are you trying to go with this? It's been explained with evidence that a man may not beat his wife; ie. hit her hard. So, what you're saying has nothing to do with being permissability in Islam.

It is staggering to think that these scholars believe that a tap with a toothbrush is going to work as some kind of discipline method.

:D

With all due respect, you cannot understand the mindset of a woman, like the Creator or a woman herself can.

It may shock you to know that, if I, was a rebellious, disobedient and disrespectful wife, a light tap from my husband would leave me highly feeling embarrassed and humiliated, and questioning my actions that lead to him taking that action, whereas a hard beating would lead me to retaliate. If my husband, sulked and skulked, and only admonished m verbally, I'd probably think him to be weak and pathetic. But tapping me, without transgressing his limits and beating the life out of me would show me he has authority and that I would respect. The wisdom behind the rulings may not be clear at first glance, but sometimes you need delve into the psychological perspective to understand. I am telling you, as a woman, this form of discipline would be effective.

The bottom line is: large numbers of men could come away from a reading of the Qur'an convinced that god has told them it's OK to beat their wives. They may be wrong in their belief, but why would an omniscient god allow them such a dangerous loophole like this?

They probably will, which is not due to any fault in the Qur'an but from ignorance of the person themselves. Knowledge, knowledge, knowledge, is what every muslim is advised to seek. Until that happens, misconceptions will continue to lead to actions which Islam strictly prohibits.


peace

[Snowflake]

Sister the koran is clear and you can beat your wife only if she refuse the husband in the bed part of that is not allowed to beat or hit the wife but if she does zina then it should be stoned .

Do you believe in the Prophet's (saw) hadiths?

[Rasema]

Do you believe in the Prophet's (saw) hadiths?

Sister, the Qur'an says that they should sepparate from beds,right?

That is the first step.

So, a husband should try all verbal and communicationam attempts before beating.

[touba]

Do you believe in the Prophet's (saw) hadiths?

I do but Allah SWT said beat the wife if she refuse you in the bed ( wadrabouhounna fil madaji3i) sadaka Allah Al 3azim.

[touba]

i think beating on the bed part is a kind of rape on the wife just what i think imsad

I know what you mean but we are talking different

[Rasema]

i think beating on the bed part is a kind of rape on the wife just what i think imsad

The hadeeths just say that a woman shouldn't refuse her husband in bed and if she does that the angels would be angry at her.

I don't know from where did the sister get that a husband can beat her for that. From where,sis?

[Rasema]

I do but Allah SWT said beat the wife if she refuse you in the bed ( wadrabouhounna fil madaji3i) sadaka Allah Al 3azim.

Assalamu Alikum

Is this your own interpretation?

I don't mind if that's what the Qur'an says just want to make sure.

[Snowflake]

i think beating on the bed part is a kind of rape on the wife just what i think imsad

Bro, it doesn't say anywhere to beat the wife in the bed, or even to beat her at that.

I do but Allah SWT said beat the wife if she refuse you in the bed ( wadrabouhounna fil madaji3i) sadaka Allah Al 3azim.

Are you saying the Prophet's hadith contradict the Quran? :hmm:

Prophet Muhammad (P) discouraged this measure. Among his sayings are the following: "Do not beat the female servants of Allah;" "Some (women) visited my family complaining about their husbands (beating them). These (husbands) are not the best of you;" and"[It is not a shame that] one of you beats his wife like [an unscrupulous person] beats a slave and maybe he sleeps with her at the end of the day." (See Riyadh Al-Saliheen, op.cit,p.p. 137-140). In another hadith the Prophet(P) said:

...How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then he may embrace (sleep with) her?... (Sahih Al-Bukhari,op.cit., vol.8.hadith 68,pp.42-43).

[GuestFellow]

Many people claim that wife beating is allowed or encouraged in islam. They use several quotes from the Quran. When I asked my mom, she immediately said it was haram (prohibited), she denounced it. I was wondering is someone could clarify or discuss wife beating.

Thank you, Ramadan Mubarak

Asslamu Alikum.

Here is what I know. Other members may wish to correct me if I make any mistake and I apologise if I make any.

I know some Muslim men feel they have the right to hit or beat their wives. In the Quran there is one verse that speaks of it from my knowledge. It is mentioned specifically in connection with divorce proceedings in cases of wife's nushuz (refusal to listen to reason).

''As to those women on whose part you fear nushuz (disloyalty and ill-conduct), rebuke them, and refuse to share their beds, beat (or overcome) them; if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance).''

Surah 4.34

It is now important to refer to the Sunnah of the Prophet P.B.U.H.

The Prophet made is very clear:

1. He never used this sanction.
2. He never struck any women (or children)
3. He pointed out that a man could hardly hit his wife and then expects her to share his bed later that night.
4. The Prophet despised any sort of abuse.

If a husband who had not been at fault that his wife was conducting herself to his shame, then as a protector of his household he should not just ignore it but it is his duty to do something about it.

Nushuz or rebellion meant ill-will every kind of deliberate bad behaviour of a wife towards a husband and family (including children of the family, old people or dependent household staff). With luck it would be enough to draw attention verbally and resolve this matter through communication.

The next verse advised if the marriage was breaking up, then the court should call in help of two supporters one for each spouse, who would listen to everything that needed saying and help claim things down. If the couple wish for peace, Allah will show a way of reconciliation.

There was never any suggestion that one spouse should ever hit the other out of anger, frustration, irritation, annoyance or disappointment. People would ultimately be held accountable for that kind of behaviour on the Day of Judgement.

The husband cannot bruise his wife. The wife can sue the husband if he had beaten her.

''A wife has no religious obligation to take a beating. She can ask for and get a divorce any time...If the husband beats a wife without respecting the limits set down by the Qur'an she can take him to court and if ruled in favour has the right to apply law of retaliation and may have the husband beaten has he beat her''

{Dr Ahmad Shafaat}

Only REASONABLE force should be used. Not to leave any mark and not to hurt the wife either. Like a slap on the wrist.

Hope this answers your question.

[Rasema]

Assalamu Aliaikum

Sister, the Qur'an is a perfect book and the prophet explained it.

Make sure you look ito the tafsir before saying Qur'an says this that.

I'm no one to give you an advice by the way :)

[Snowflake]

jazakAllahu khayr brother Guestfellow

[czgibson]

Greetings,

.
No offence, but aren't you also being one of those who interpret the verses themselves?

Yes, but I don't think you've quite grasped my meaning. This might not be the correct interpretation, but it is an interpretation that someone could quite easily make, and I think it is dangerous. I will try and explain why.

I take you have read when, where and how the term the 'beating' applies?

I've read everything has posted in this thread, and in the threads where this has come up before.

Any man who implements the teachings of Islam in his life, would not be violent to his wife or anyone else in the first place, and would know his limits.

No true Scotsman fallacy.

Whatsmore is, a non religious man isn't going to beat his wife to 'improve' a situation but to punish her. And we have those in all walks of life.

I'm talking about human anger, which usually leads to irrational decisions.

No, you think the translation permits and condones it. As bro Limitless, stated, 'The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) explained it "dharban ghayra mubarrih" which means "a light tap that leaves no mark".

Well, "beat" is the word the translator chose to use. Who am I to argue? Maybe it's just this translation that I have a problem with. It's still out there, though, so it can still inform people's actions, so the thrust of my argument is unaffected.

Where are you trying to go with this? It's been explained with evidence that a man may not beat his wife; ie. hit her hard. So, what you're saying has nothing to do with being permissability in Islam.

I'm talking about the real-world consequences that may result from someone reading the verse and thinking it's OK to beat their wife.

Look, what I already know of Islam tells me that its teachings are much more likely to encourage respect for a wife rather than abuse - that much is obvious. But seeing as the Qur'an is a text with divine authority, can you not see how dangerous it is for it to include pronouncements like this? Especially when they require so much repeated clarification?

:D

With all due respect, you cannot understand the mindset of a woman, like the Creator or a woman herself can.

It may shock you to know that, if I, was a rebellious, disobedient and disrespectful wife, a light tap from my husband would leave me highly feeling embarrassed and humiliated, and questioning my actions that lead to him taking that action, whereas a hard beating would lead me to retaliate. If my husband, sulked and skulked, and only admonished m verbally, I'd probably think him to be weak and pathetic. But tapping me, without transgressing his limits and beating the life out of me would show me he has authority and that I would respect. The wisdom behind the rulings may not be clear at first glance, but sometimes you need delve into the psychological perspective to understand. I am telling you, as a woman, this form of discipline would be effective.

Well, I am highly surprised. I'll ask my partner what she thinks.

They probably will, which is not due to any fault in the Qur'an but from ignorance of the person themselves. Knowledge, knowledge, knowledge, is what every muslim is advised to seek. Until that happens, misconceptions will continue to lead to actions which Islam strictly prohibits.

The Qur'an does not exist in a vacuum. It is read by millions and its verses are widely interpreted as a guide to all aspects of life. Given both of those facts, if it causes misconceptions to arise (even among ignorant people), and those misconceptions lead to harm, then surely that is dangerous? Lots of books contain passages that are unclear, but most books do not come wih divine authority that directly informs how people live their lives.

Peace

[Rasema]

Athiest,czgibson, you don't like it, too bad.

Goodbye.

[GuestFellow]

Well, I am highly surprised. I'll ask my partner what she thinks.

Greetings,

Well asking one person opinion cannot be applied to the general population. Touch or a slap on the wrist can have a significant impact on the individual. In the UK a touch can be considered as Battery under Section 39 Common Assault.

[MSalman]

as-salamu alaykum

subhaanAllah; this is what happens when we speak without knowledge: chaos and confusions and more problems

Does Allah not say in the Qur'an that if you do not have knowledge then refer to those who have knowledge?

PS: more on this later, g2g for juma'ah salah

[Rasema]

as-salamu alaykum

subhaanAllah; this is what happens when we speak without knowledge: chaos and confusions and more problems

Does Allah not say in the Qur'an that if you do not have knowledge then refer to those who have knowledge?

PS: more on this later, g2g for juma'ah salah

Assalamu Alaikum

I agree, but we all learned though.

[Intisar]

Please read my other post.

Beating is different from hiting!

A good Muslim husband would not beat his wife for no reason. If I desearved it than that would remind me to become better. It is necessary sometimes, it depends on how the wife is.

Please, just because you think that something is wrong doesn't mean it is.

'Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not."

Read the previous posts before judgeing.

Aoothobillahi mina shaydani rajiim. :muddlehea

[GreyKode]

I know what you mean but we are talking different

Hey sister you better get your eyes checked cause obviously you are misreading the Qur'an.
You previously said : "Fadribohonna fil madaji3"
IT DOESN'T SAY THAT.

Recheck the verse sister before spreading misinformation.

[Uthman]

Please see this thread: http://www.islamicboard.com/clarific...e-beating.html

The answer is provided clearly by those who have knowledge.

[Rasema]

Aoothobillahi mina shaydani rajiim. :muddlehea

Did I say something wrong,please correct me!

[zakirs]

"I'm talking about the real-world consequences that may result from someone reading the verse and thinking it's OK to beat their wife.

Look, what I already know of Islam tells me that its teachings are much more likely to encourage respect for a wife rather than abuse - that much is obvious. But seeing as the Qur'an is a text with divine authority, can you not see how dangerous it is for it to include pronouncements like this? Especially when they require so much repeated clarification?

A person can read "love thy neighbor" and can actually interpret it as you can make love to your neighbor.Sorry if i am speaking rudely but thats how it looks like a bad person can always twist a sentence to his will.Allah would make sure they get their slice of punishment.

[MSalman]

:sl:

subhaanAllah, I do not know where to start from

Assalamu Alaikum

I agree, but we all learned though.

wa'alaykee as-salam

sister, may Allah preserve you, what do you mean by we are learned? Are we scholars or students of knowledge? We, the people who lack knowledge (laypeople), are obliged to refer to those who have knowledge. Otherwise, we end up hurting Islam more than helping.

Sister the koran is clear and you can beat your wife only if she refuse the husband in the bed part of that is not allowed to beat or hit the wife but if she does zina then it should be stoned .

sister, may Allah preserve you, with all due respect, you are wrong about the only part in addition to your short coming of explaining the matter of bed refusal. I also remember you said something like "you know Arabic; therefore, you know what Islamic ruling is or what the Qur'an is saying". This is a wrong way to go about; as mentioned before, people like us are obliged, by the Qur'an, to refer to those who have knowledge. So insha'Allah we should be more careful

Refusal to bed is not the only reason for hitting her lightly and it (hitting her lightly) is not the first step a husband is told to do. The Qur'an says, interpretation of the meaning [Surah an-Nisa(4):34]:

As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance).

Off course, by ill-conduct it means anything un-Islamic. Yes, it is true that refusal of her husband's call to bed (without any legitimate shari excuse, i.e., sick) is one of the ill-conducts but not the only one. The other one could be that she does not protect his property when he is gone. Also, it is the last thing to do. In case of zina, she would be stoned only if there is a shari court and her crime becomes public. Her husband may keep it secret our of mercy for her and resort to other means which are mentioned in this ayah. Allahu A'lam

@czgibson

There is no point discussing these fiqhi matters with you because you do not even believe in Allah. Since you do not believe in Him, you will never actually understand the shari rulings. And even if you do, it would still not make you believe in Allah. So what is the point? But let me address your two points

But seeing as the Qur'an is a text with divine authority, can you not see how dangerous it is for it to include pronouncements like this? Especially when they require so much repeated clarification?

this is simply your perception. Allah did not end it there, there is a ahadith to explain what we are really suppose to do. So Islam left no room for wrong interpretations and now if some people do it how can you blame Islam for it? Your post shows that you know nothing about basic Islamic science. The Qur'an and sahih ahadith are two sources of Islam and the sahih ahadith are the second revelation from Allah. They go hand in hand when explaining Islam and the rulings are not limited to just one of the two sources

Secondly, just because the source is divine, does not mean that the addressees are also divine. We are limited and everyone thinks differently. Have humans ever agreed upon one thing? They do not even agree upon who there Creator is let alone more issues. It is a fallacy in and of itself, knowing our limitations, to claim that all humans should understand the Qur'an in same way. There is no evidence that even if the Qur'an would have been revealed in simplest of forms we would have agreed upon it. What evidence do you have that if Allah used a different term then we all would have agreed over its meaning and implication? We would have still argued about it. Why: because we are HUMANS!

Lastly, you do not know what is best for us; the Lord knows what is best for us. All you can do is play guessing games with your limited understanding and corrupt perception of reality and what is truth.

It is read by millions and its verses are widely interpreted as a guide to all aspects of life. Given both of those facts, if it causes misconceptions to arise (even among ignorant people), and those misconceptions lead to harm, then surely that is dangerous?

so what if read by millions of people and no clear to them. All of these people are told in the Qur'an that if you do not have knowledge then refer to those who have knowledge. Is it Islam's fault that people do not do that, even though Islam closed the door to distortion and misinterpretation? Please talk about Islam and not the actions of people!

and indeed Allah knows best

[Ansariyah]

Aoothobillahi mina shaydani rajiim. :muddlehea

My sentiments when I read through the thread. I can't believe that some people are condoning wife beating n backing it up wit some twisted opinion n trying to pass that off for sunnah. Look into the Life of rasululah (saw) did he ever hit or beat his wives? No! Wat does Allah say in the Quraan?



إِن كُنتُمْ تُحِبُّونَ اللّهَ فَاتَّبِعُونِي يُحْبِبْكُمُ اللّهُ وَيَغْفِرْ لَكُمْ ذُنُوبَكُمْ وَاللّهُ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ


((Say: if you love Allaah then follow me and Allaah will love you and forgive you your sins and Allaah is the Most Forgiving, Most Merciful)) (Surah Aal 'Imraan: 31)


U can't pick an ayah & reject the human example (Prophet mohamed (saw)) that Allah sent to mankind. In his life & character we know how he treated his wives.

The Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم) also said,

كل أمتي يدخلون الجنة إلا من أبى, قالوا: يا رسول الله و من أبى؟ قال: من أطاعني دخل الجنة و من عصاني فقد أبى

((All of my Ummah will enter heaven except those who refuse (or reject), so they asked him: oh messenger of Allaah, who is the one who refuses? The Prophet said: whoever obeys me will enter heaven and whoever obeys me he has refused.)) (Saheeh al-Bukhaaree, 7280)

Where did this wife beating opinion rise from? It surely did not stem from the character & manners of Rasululah (saw).

[Rasema]

Wa ALIKU MUSELAM

Brother,Islamiclife,if you read what i wrote again I said that we all learned not that we all are knowledgeable. And if I say something about Islam I've read it by a scholar.

I always make my statements into questions. If I don't It was just my opinion so that others correct it.This is the way I learn.

Thanks sis, Yanoorah.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I contest your usage of this fallacy in said context. From the wiki page you linked:
So, "any man who implements the teachings of Islam in his life, would not be violent to his wife or anyone else in the first place, and would know his limits", is okay, because not being unjustly violent is what defines a follower of Muhammad SAW. Just as not eating meat defines a vegetarian

Clearly a different case, because not being unjustly violent is not "the single thing that precisely defines a person as a" Muslim. Lots of people who are not Muslims are also not unjustly violent.

There is no point discussing these fiqhi matters with you because you do not even believe in Allah. Since you do not believe in Him, you will never actually understand the shari rulings. And even if you do, it would still not make you believe in Allah. So what is the point?

I'm interested in seeing how you justify what I see as a dangerous state of affairs. It's up to you if you want to carry on discussing it.

this is simply your perception. Allah did not end it there, there is a ahadith to explain what we are really suppose to do.

This is precisely my point. The verse in the Qur'an needs extra clarification, from ahadith or even centuries of tafseers.

So Islam left no room for wrong interpretations and now if some people do it how can you blame Islam for it?

Lots of people interpret Islam wrongly all the time. Islam left plenty of room for wrong interpretations.

Your post shows that you know nothing about basic Islamic science. The Qur'an and sahih ahadith are two sources of Islam and the sahih ahadith are the second revelation from Allah. They go hand in hand when explaining Islam and the rulings are not limited to just one of the two sources

Do you really think that I've managed to spend four years on an Islamic forum without being aware of this?

Secondly, just because the source is divine, does not mean that the addressees are also divine. We are limited and everyone thinks differently. Have humans ever agreed upon one thing? They do not even agree upon who there Creator is let alone more issues. It is a fallacy in and of itself, knowing our limitations, to claim that all humans should understand the Qur'an in same way. There is no evidence that even if the Qur'an would have been revealed in simplest of forms we would have agreed upon it. What evidence do you have that if Allah used a different term then we all would have agreed over its meaning and implication? We would have still argued about it. Why: because we are HUMANS!

All of this seems to be directed against a claim I have not made. I'm not suggesting that there is one correct, total interpretation of the Qur'an, or that there could or should be. Still, everything you say only underlines the importance of clarity in a book that is used as ultimate guidance by millions of people. In fact, regardless of what it says, any book that claims to be the direct word of god (and which is taken seriously by many) is going to give people a level of certainty in their affairs that could potentially be used in a harmful way.

Lastly, you do not know what is best for us; the Lord knows what is best for us. All you can do is play guessing games with your limited understanding and corrupt perception of reality and what is truth.

Why, thank you. :)

so what if read by millions of people and no clear to them.

But the Qur'an is constantly being described as "clear" by Muslims!

All of these people are told in the Qur'an that if you do not have knowledge then refer to those who have knowledge. Is it Islam's fault that people do not do that, even though Islam closed the door to distortion and misinterpretation?

If a person's wrong interpretation of the Qur'an causes harm, yes.

Since there are abundant examples of people whose wrong interpretations of Islam have caused harm, then clearly Islam has not closed the door to distortion and misinterpretation.

Please talk about Islam and not the actions of people!

Perhaps you'd like to hear my thoughts on how succesful communism has been. Please don't mention Stalin, Mao or Pol Pot, though. Same logic, right?

I'm interested in trying to find out what can be done to help Muslims and non-Muslims understand each other. It's why I've been on this forum for so long. Given the current divide that exists between us in the world, I think it would be good if more people did the same. I'm not qualified to interpret Islamic scriptures, so anything I say about them is automatically suspect, and now I'm not allowed to talk about the actions of Muslims either.

How would you suggest I continue trying to understand Islam and Muslims?

Peace

[Rasema]

My sentiments when I read through the thread. I can't believe that some people are condoning wife beating n backing it up wit some twisted opinion n trying to pass that off for sunnah. Look into the Life of rasululah (saw) did he ever hit or beat his wives? No! Wat does Allah say in the Quraan?



إِن كُنتُمْ تُحِبُّونَ اللّهَ فَاتَّبِعُونِي يُحْبِبْكُمُ اللّهُ وَيَغْفِرْ لَكُمْ ذُنُوبَكُمْ وَاللّهُ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ


((Say: if you love Allaah then follow me and Allaah will love you and forgive you your sins and Allaah is the Most Forgiving, Most Merciful)) (Surah Aal 'Imraan: 31)


U can't pick an ayah & reject the human example (Prophet mohamed (saw)) that Allah sent to mankind. In his life & character we know how he treated his wives.

The Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم) also said,

كل أمتي يدخلون الجنة إلا من أبى, قالوا: يا رسول الله و من أبى؟ قال: من أطاعني دخل الجنة و من عصاني فقد أبى

((All of my Ummah will enter heaven except those who refuse (or reject), so they asked him: oh messenger of Allaah, who is the one who refuses? The Prophet said: whoever obeys me will enter heaven and whoever obeys me he has refused.)) (Saheeh al-Bukhaaree, 7280)

Where did this wife beating opinion rise from? It surely did not stem from the character & manners of Rasululah (saw).

Wa Aliku muselam

Now hiting ones wife is not permitted at all?

[GuestFellow]

Greetings,

Lots of people interpret Islam wrongly all the time. Islam left plenty of room for wrong interpretations.

Peace

Greetings,

The same is applicable with UK law. The complexity of how an Act of Parliament is structured and written in legal terminology leaves room for wrong interpretations. The courts may spend several days trying to interpret one part of a legislation on serious criminal matters (especially fraud cases) and sometimes this may go on for years with civil cases. There is plenty of room for wrong interpretations and there have been instances the law has been applied unfairly or misunderstood.

Peace

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Greetings,

The same is applicable with UK law. The complexity of how an Act of Parliament is structured and written in legal terminology leaves room for wrong interpretations. The courts may spend several days trying to interpret one part of a legislation on serious criminal matters (especially fraud cases) and sometimes this may go on for years with civil cases. There is plenty of room for wrong interpretations and there have been instances the law has been applied unfairly or misunderstood.

Peace

You make a good point, but nobody is claiming that UK law is perfect or unalterable.

Peace

[alcurad]

this is not the same as 'Domestic Violence' and whatnot, so don't confuse the two. it does not give a man free reign to 'beat' his wife as some think, actually the scholars have said a woman can be granted divorce if her husband mistreats her, and certainly beating qualifies as mistreatment.

as it were no one should do it, it's not the proper way to treat a wife, nor is it how the prophet acted, but to say it isn't allowed at all under any circumstances is not correct either, bear in mind the context, culture when the verse were revealed and you'll see.

czgibson, generally the qur'an has no wrong interpretation, all interpretations are correct as long as they take into account the context, and only the truth is sought. ie. assumptions & biases put aside as much as possible.
there is no single agreed upon interpretation, rather it's for us to decide since the qur'an is intentionally ambiguous in many places.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

czgibson, generally the qur'an has no wrong interpretation, all interpretations are correct as long as they take into account the context, and only the truth is sought. ie. assumptions & biases put aside as much as possible.

All interpretations are correct, provided they stick to a list of unverifiable conditions? This is very slippery territory.

there is no single agreed upon interpretation, rather it's for us to decide since the qur'an is intentionally ambiguous in many places.

That's the first time I've heard a Muslim person say that. I've always maintained that the Qur'an is a highly suggestive text, open to many interpretations. In postmodernist literary theory, this is often held to be a virtue in a novel or other text.

When the text is perceived to be the ultimate guidance for mankind, though, and is intentionally ambiguous, doesn't that pose a problem?

Peace

[MSalman]

Wa ALIKU MUSELAM

Brother,Islamiclife,if you read what i wrote again I said that we all learned not that we all are knowledgeable. And if I say something about Islam I've read it by a scholar.

I always make my statements into questions. If I don't It was just my opinion so that others correct it.This is the way I learn.

:sl:

my apology for misunderstanding your point sister, wa barakAllahu feekee

@gibson

can we discuss this in another thread? I do not like hijacking threads

[Ummu Sufyaan]

:sl:
hasnt this issue been debated on end here :uhwhat

[khaliduk]

you cannot beat up your wife no matter what she does..... the worst you can do is hit her with a miswak.

jazak allah

[cat eyes]

Greetings,

From an outsider's point of view this all looks deeply unsettling. It is impossible to say for sure exactly what the Qur'an means when it says "beat them", but people can and do interpret the verse themselves.

it might look unsettling to an unbeliever because they will obviously believe the worst. they will jump to crazy conclusions. the holy qur'an was revealed in arabic and one word could have other meanings thats why us muslims refer to the hadiths of the prophet mohammad pbuh for guidance on this sensitive matter.

Surely a violent man who feels like beating his wife might well be convinced in that moment that it's going to improve the situation? That doesn't make it right.
if he fears Allah he won't transgress his limits if he is a true believer. if he is a violent man, hes not any muslim! he is a syco


It permits and condones beating.

islam don't condone beating. beating as you say and to beat lightly as its stated in the hoy qur'an are two different things. understand the definition of the word light then you will come to know its not that type of beating like how you believe to be.

It's possible to hit someone quite hard without leaving a mark. If no mark is left on an abused woman, it's her word against his on how hard the beating was.
i am 100percent sure if a man hit a woman quite hard it would surely leave a little bruise. i don't know what human dose not bruise and if they are bruised on the inside.. Allah is all knower


It is staggering to think that these scholars believe that a tap with a toothbrush is going to work as some kind of discipline method.
not sure weather this saying came from the prophet pbuh or from an early scholar.. I will have to confirm that for you.

The bottom line is: large numbers of men could come away from a reading of the Qur'an convinced that god has told them it's OK to beat their wives. They may be wrong in their belief, but why would an omniscient god allow them such a dangerous loophole like this?

Peace

Allah guides many people by his scriptures and misleads many by it

[alcurad]

Greetings,

All interpretations are correct, provided they stick to a list of unverifiable conditions? This is very slippery territory.

consider the example of science and on what it stands on, and you'll see my point.

That's the first time I've heard a Muslim person say that. I've always maintained that the Qur'an is a highly suggestive text, open to many interpretations. In postmodernist literary theory, this is often held to be a virtue in a novel or other text.

it is a highly suggestive text for the simple reason that for a text to survive beyond the generation it was written in it has to be plastic. the qur'an could be seen as a novel of sorts, weaving history, ethics, politics and pre-laws into a single narrative. but it is much more than that, religious texts are the highest forms of expression there is, not just of literature although the devices are seemingly literary.

When the text is perceived to be the ultimate guidance for mankind, though, and is intentionally ambiguous, doesn't that pose a problem?

why would it? as a universal message it has to be broad enough to allow for the individual understanding, yet not so vague as to lose meaning.
Peace

Peace :)

[Uthman]

Regarding interpretation of the Qur'an, I feel the need to make a couple of things clear. There are, in fact, numerous conditions that must be met before one is qualified to make tafsir (exegesis) of the Qur'an. This is from another post on the forum:

The classical Sunni scholar Imam As-Suyuti cites in his monumental book on the sciences of the Qur’an al-Itqan fi Ulum al-Qur’an fifteen or so characteristics of the Mufassir. Scholars affirm that any tafsir (commentary), which disregards these principles, must be scrutinized with great concern and caution, if not completely rejected. Below are some important conditions:

1- Proper intention and sound creed.
2- Knowledge of the Arabic Language; this requires one to master Grammar [nahu], Morphology [sarf], word etymology [ishtiqaq], Arabic rhetoric [balagha], Poetry amongst other things.
3- Knowledge of the various modes of Qira’ats [recitations].
4- Knowledge of the Principles of Fiqh [Usul al-Fiqh] and Fiqh.
5- Knowledge of the Asbab an Nuzul [reasons for revelation] and its related topics.
6- Knowledge of the Nasikh and Mansukh.
7- Knowledge of Hadith especially those pertaining the explicit commentary made by the Prophet (pbuh).
8- Knowledge of the makki, madani, muhkam, mutashabih and the various types of ‘Ijaz of the Qur’an.
9- Referring to the reports of the Companions of the Prophet.
10- Considering the reports of the successors of the Companions.
11- Consulting the opinions of eminent scholars.
12- Following the proper methodology of exegesis of the Qur’an.

With regards to the methodology of exegesis, the orthodox scholars follow systematic principles in interpreting the Qur'an.

As-Suyootee said:

The scholars have said: Whoever wishes to interpret the Qur'an, he should first turn to the Qur'an itself. This is because what has been narrated succintly in one place might be expounded upon in another...

If he has done that, then he turns to the Sunnah, for it is the explainer of the Qur'an, and a clarifier to it. Imaam as-Shaafi'ee said: "All that the Prophet (:saws:) said is based on his understanding of the Qur'an. And Allah said:

إِنَّا أَنْزَلْنَا إِلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ بِالْحَقِّ لِتَحْكُمَ بَيْنَ النَّاسِ بِمَا أَرَاكَ اللَّهُ

"Verily, We have revealed the Book, in truth, so that you may judge between mankind by that which Allah has shown you" (4:105)

And the Prophet (:saws:) said: "Indeed, I have been given the Qur'an, and something similar to it, meaning the Sunnah.

If he does not find it (the tafseer) in the Sunnah, he turns to the statements of the Companions, for they are the most knowledgeable of it, since they witnessed the circumstances and situations the Qur'an was revealed in, ans since they were blessed with complete understanding, and true knowledge, and pious actions...

I don't actually moderate this section of the forum, but a new thread should probably be created if we wish to continue discussing interpretation of the Qur'an, since the original question of the thread starter has been answered.

[Rebel]

...you can beat your wife but not real beating only to make her afraid to do so if she refuse to make love with you...

Disturbing...

[Malaikah]

:sl:

I understand that people posting here have the best of intentions but it is very important that we do not speak without knowledge.

For starters, we need to the understand the meaning of the word 'beating'. To beat someone means to hit them repeated and very forcefully in a way that causes a lot of harm and damage. Therefore, when you say Islam permits a light beating, even though you probably mean to say that Islam permits a light hit (a hit it different to beating), people are going to think you mean that Islam permits you to repeatedly punch your wife, or something terrible like that!

Please be careful with the words you use and keep in mind that people will misunderstand what you say, especially when it comes to the topic of so calling wife 'beatings'. Islam NEVER permits a man to beat his wife - never.

The only thing that is allowed is a light hit, and this has been explained:

Hitting is subject to the condition that it should not be harsh or cause injury. Al-Hasan al-Basri said: this means that it should not cause pain.

‘Ata’ said: I said to Ibn ‘Abbaas, what is the kind of hitting that is not harsh? He said, Hitting with a siwaak and the like. [A siwaak is a small stick or twig used for cleaning the teeth - Translator]

The purpose behind this is not to hurt or humiliate the woman, rather it is intended to make her realize that she has transgressed against her husband’s rights, and that her husband has the right to set her straight and discipline her.

Also one must keep in mind that hitting the wife is ONLY if she is doing something very wrong and you have already tried to speak to her about it, and that has failed, AND you have abandoned her bed and that has failed, ONLY then is it permissible to hit her lightly.

In no way does Islam allow men to hit out at their wives in a moment of anger, to take out their frustration on them or simply because he felt like it, as some people wrongly claim. As Muslims we must protect the sanctity of our religion and also it is upon us to protect women from abusive husbands - we therefore must be very assertive in establishing the fact that NO, Islam does not in anyway way allow a man to abuse his wife!