Why some animals are not allowed to be killed while some others are allowed?

[de_ruutje]

I mean, why insect like bee should not be killed and why snake should be killed if you see it?

Forgive me if there is any mistake in my word...

[IslamicRevival]

Salaam. From what i understand Bees should not be killed as they produce honey. I dont know if ALL snakes should be killed or not but i presume only the dangerous ones which cause harm to humans should be killed

[Ramisa]

:sl:

Bees contribute to the blessed nature,that is why we should not harm them. If we do they become dangerous. But the snakes that contain venom should be either killed or get the venom contracted(sucked) out. Allah knows the best.

:wa:

[de_ruutje]

So, we only kill it if they are dangerous for us, right?
If they are not harmful, we shouldn't kill it although some hadith tell us to kill it.
Is that okay?

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[Santoku]

Why should snakes be harmed unless they pose an active threat - they are excellent at keeping down rats, mice and other small vermin. There are those that blame the recent plague of mice in Australia on a campaign to eradicate "dangerous" reptiles, without the snakkes to controll them the mouse population grew out of control, of course when they had eaten all the food the population crashed but they did a heck of a lot of damage. don'y know if you ever saw that film of a sheet of corrugated iron being lifted and several thousand mice stampeding away from the light.

[aamirsaab]

Why should snakes be harmed unless they pose an active threat - they are excellent at keeping down rats, mice and other small vermin. There are those that blame the recent plague of mice in Australia on a campaign to eradicate "dangerous" reptiles, without the snakkes to controll them the mouse population grew out of control, of course when they had eaten all the food the population crashed but they did a heck of a lot of damage. don'y know if you ever saw that film of a sheet of corrugated iron being lifted and several thousand mice stampeding away from the light.

We aren't supposed to kill any animals full stop (other than for food) - they are Allah's creation and we're to respect them. Which means not killing (again, unless for food) AND protecting animals instead.

[de_ruutje]

A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Five are the vicious beasts which should be killed even in the state of Ihram: scorpion, rat, kite, crow and voracious dog.

No, I mean, from this hadith above, what should we do?
Dog is the man's best friend. Why the muslim are commanded to kill a hungry dog and the other animals stated on this hadith?
Can you give me a logical reason?

[aamirsaab]

No, I mean, from this hadith above, what should we do?
Dog is the man's best friend. Why the muslim are commanded to kill a hungry dog and the other animals stated on this hadith?
Can you give me a logical reason?

What hadith number and book number is that from? I've never heard of that in my life actually.

[- IqRa -]

Sahih Muslim, The book of Pilgrimage (Book 7), No. 2718

A'isha (Allaah be pleased with her) reported Allaah'* Prophet (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) as saying: Five are the harmful things which should be killed in the state of Ihram or otherwise: snake, speckled crow. rat. voracious dog, and kite.

Source

[de_ruutje]

so, what is the conclusion?

[Santoku]

We aren't supposed to kill any animals full stop (other than for food) - they are Allah's creation and we're to respect them. Which means not killing (again, unless for food) AND protecting animals instead.

Works for me.

[aamirsaab]

so, what is the conclusion?

You'd have to ask an imaam (or scholar) because I don't know enough about hadiths. My educated guess is those animals mentioned in the ahadith are dangerous by their nature (i.e. will attack you without being provoked) and the hadith are saying it is allowed to kill those animals (but you don't HAVE to).

Again, this is merely an educated guess on my part and I do heavily encourage you to seek the actual answer from an imaam or scholar.

Works for me.

Keep reading (and asking questions), you may find more aspects of Islam that work for you ;)

[MSalman]

No, I mean, from this hadith above, what should we do?
Dog is the man's best friend. Why the muslim are commanded to kill a hungry dog and the other animals stated on this hadith?
Can you give me a logical reason?

and your point of query is? Put a black spot on Islam? NO?

1 - As far as I am concern, there is no shari' text which explains why we are to kill these 5 animals. What does this mean? This means we can only speculate the wisdom behind the ruling but no one knows for sure what is real reason. The Lord knows what is best for people so either submit to it or take up with Him. And please stop wasting our time with useless discussions during this month. More details on hadith can be found here

2 - Not all dogs are man's best friend. I remember there is another hadith which explains which dogs we should be killing: wild black dogs or something like that. Maybe someone can quote you that hadith, insha'Allah

3 - One of the logical reasons is that they are harmful to humans. Are you gonna buy it? I do not think so. What's next?

and Allah knows best

[Woodrow]

Sahih Muslim, The book of Pilgrimage (Book 7), No. 2718

A'isha (Allaah be pleased with her) reported Allaah'* Prophet (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) as saying: Five are the harmful things which should be killed in the state of Ihram or otherwise: snake, speckled crow. rat. voracious dog, and kite.

Source

:wa:

I think to understand this we need to know more about the requirements of Hajj. This all comes from "Sahih Muslim, The book of Pilgrimage (Book 7)"


I am far from being an expert in the Ahadith and definetly am not qualified to give Tafsir regarding it.

But, in my opinion we are reading of special requirements regarding Hajj and may not apply to daily living.

[Caller الداعي]

salams guys!
i think what we are missing here is that fact that halal and haram are two things which are appointed only by Allah and his messenger alaysala.
so for us to ask why things are how they r in islam and how they should be and what is something, we have no authority to divulge into such matters!
unfortunatley many of the muslims try to justify and answer questions aimed at islam without having the proper knowledge and deep understand of islam! remember people sacrifice time and money to seek knowledge so it wouldnt be enough to just read and memorize a few articles here and there !
back to the topic the animals and insects which have been allowed to be killed are solely from the permission of Allah and His messenger alaysalam, for us to debate y this is allowed to be killed and y not, this is again not for us to decide!
most animals and insects that have been permitted to be killed are due to their dangerous behaviour and sometimes even lethal effects they have on humans and us humans have been given the authority to protect ourselves from any harmful creature wheathr human or animal!

[Snowflake]

A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Five are the vicious beasts which should be killed even in the state of Ihram: scorpion, rat, kite, crow and voracious dog.

No, I mean, from this hadith above, what should we do?
Dog is the man's best friend. Why the muslim are commanded to kill a hungry dog and the other animals stated on this hadith?
Can you give me a logical reason?

First, let me make it clear that islam forbids cruelty to animals to the extent that a muslim may not even sharpen a knife in front of the animal he is about to slaughter. Animals have rights in Islam and there are legal rulings concering those rights. Is it Islam which prohibited branding animals and cutting their tails and manes.

Jabir told that God's Messenger(s) forbade striking the face or branding on the face of animals…The same companion of the Holy Prophet(s) reported him as saying, when an ass which had been branded in its face passed him by: 'God curse the one who branded it.' (Narrated by Jabir bin Abdullah. Muslim, Vol.3, Hadith No. 2116. Also Awn al-Ma'bud Sharh Abu Dawud (hereafter referred to as Awn); 7:232, hadith No. 2547. Also The Lawful and Unlawful in Islam (in Arabic); Yusuf el-Kardawi; Mektebe Vahba, Cairo; 1977; p. 293. Also 'Robson' (Ref. No. 15); p. 872). This Hadith is concerned with causing pain to the animal on the sensitive parts of its body, as well as with the disfigurement of its appearance.

The following Hadith forbids the disfiguration of the body of an animal.

The Prophet(s) said: 'Do not clip the forelock of a horse, for a decency is attached to its forelock; nor its mane, for it protects it; nor its tail, for it is its fly-flap'. (Narrated by 'Utbah ibn Farqad Abu Abdillah al-Sulami. Abu Dawud. Also Awn, 7:216, 217, Hadith No. 2525 (Ref. No. 32)).

There are many Ahadith forbidding blood sports and the use of animals as targets, some of which are as follows:

The Prophet(s) condemned those people who take up anything alive as a mere sport." (Narrated by Abdullah bin 'Omar. Muslim, Vol. 3, Hadith No. 1958).
The Prophet(s) forbade blood sports, like the Bedouins. (Narrated by Abdullah Ibn Abbas. Awn, (Ref. No. 32); 8:15, Hadith No. 2603. Also 'Robson'; p. 876 (Ref. No. 15, but it does not mention 'Bedouins').

The Prophet said: 'Do not set up living creatures as a target'. (Narrated by Abdullah bin Abbas. Muslim Vol. 3, Hadith No. 1957. Also 'Robson'; p. 872 (Ref. No. 15).

The Prophet(s) condemned those who use a living creature as a target." (Narrated by Abdullah bin'Omar. Bukhari and Muslim. Also 'Robson' p. 872 (Ref. No. 15)).

The Prophet(s) forbade an animal being made a target." (Narrated by Anas. Recorded by Riyad. (Ref. No. 28); Hadith No. 1606; p. 272.

As for the hadith, all the animals mentioned pose risk of injury and even death to a person. The dog mentioned refers to a rabid dog which can harm a person. Translations have a lot to answer to when confusion results.

Here is hadith about not killing dogs which proves that the afore mentioned ones refers to rabid dogs, wolves or any type of dog that puts human life in danger.





Hadith Showing Dogs Not Being Killed

They used to see dogs urinating on the floor of the mosque and they just sprinkled water on the spot, they didn't go and kill the dog. (Saheeh Bukhari: Volume 001, Book 004, Hadith Number 174)

There are hadith which show people quenched the thirst of a thirsty dog and they got rewarded for it. The Prophet even stressed that there was a reward for one who serves any living being, including animals. (Saheeh Bukhari: Volume 001, Book 004, Hadith Number 174; Volume 3, Book 40, Number 551; Volume 3, Book 43, Number 646; Volume 4, Book 54, Number 538; Volume 4, Book 56, Number 673; Saheeh Muslim: Book 026, Number 5577; Book 026, Number 5578; Book 026, Number 5579; Malik Muwatta: Book 49, Number 49.10.23)

Ordering a dog to be kicked out and not killed. (Abu Dawud: Book 32, Number 4146)

[Thinker]

Sahih Muslim, The book of Pilgrimage (Book 7), No. 2718

A'isha (Allaah be pleased with her) reported Allaah'* Prophet (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) as saying: Five are the harmful things which should be killed in the state of Ihram or otherwise: snake, speckled crow. rat. voracious dog, and kite.

Source

If God wanted those creatures killed why did he put them here in the first place?

[Snowflake]

^God said kill them if they are about to kill you, otherwise not. I'm sure you can see the logic in that. :)

[Thinker]

^God said kill them if they are about to kill you, otherwise not. I'm sure you can see the logic in that. :)

I do, but surely that would apply to any animal trying to kill me not just the snake, speckled crow, rat, voracious dog, and kite?

[Snowflake]

Yes it does. But if you look at the nature of the animals mentioned you can see they are from those that strike without warning. This makes them more of a threat right?

[Thinker]

Yes it does. But if you look at the nature of the animals mentioned you can see they are from those that strike without warning. This makes them more of a threat right?

Hmmm - I've never heard of anyone being killed by a speckled crow or any other kind of crow!

[Snowflake]

^I have! In pakistan, I can't remember which crows it was, but they can peck a man to death or at least seriously injure him.

[MSalman]

If God wanted those creatures killed why did he put them here in the first place?

The wisdom behind the creation of dangerous animals

[Santoku]

Yes it does. But if you look at the nature of the animals mentioned you can see they are from those that strike without warning. This makes them more of a threat right?

no animal strikes without warning, we are just too blind to see it, or we see it and pay it no heed.

[Snowflake]

mmmm yeh.. they usually send a wire don't they lol :hmm:

Of course animals can attack suddenly.

[Tony]

no animal strikes without warning, we are just too blind to see it, or we see it and pay it no heed.

eh!!!!! What planet do you speak of ?

[Woodrow]

no animal strikes without warning, we are just too blind to see it, or we see it and pay it no heed.

Although you are correct, few will agree with you on this point.

Us humans often do not see the warning and the warning often is very subtle. Animals do not have freedom of choice as us humans do. They go through a whole series of behavioral activity prior to attacking. this is the secret Animal Trainers use. You learn to recognize the signs of when an animal is or is not about to attack and act accordingly. True we often do not recognize an attack warning from an animal, but if we look back in hindsight it was there.

[de_ruutje]

So, I think we should not kill them unless they attack us first. That's the best definition I think.

[gang4]

That is a tricky question since it can be twisted into

Why some things we are commanded to do while some others things are not?
Why some things smells good to us while some others things are not?

I am sorry I am rambling...
I need to get to my 50 posts before I could reply an incoming email....

[syilla]

^I have! In pakistan, I can't remember which crows it was, but they can peck a man to death or at least seriously injure him.

lol...

In Malaysia they messed with the garbage, dirty the city, steal things... :hmm: including jewellery and etc.

[de_ruutje]

That is a tricky question since it can be twisted into

Why some things we are commanded to do while some others things are not?
Why some things smells good to us while some others things are not?

I am sorry I am rambling...
I need to get to my 50 posts before I could reply an incoming email....

yeah, that's exactly what I meant. Ant & Sparrow Hawk are not allowed to be killed and the others like Crows are allowed to be killed if it attack us. So, what if a tiger escaped from a zoo is attacking us, can we kill it or not? Are the animal allowed to be killed only from the hadith?

The Messenger [S.A.W] said: "Five creatures, all harmful, can be killed in the Haram (holy precincts): the crow, the kite, the scorpion, the mouse and the dog that bites [people without being provoked]".

Or, this hadith just confirm the only animal can be killed during ihram?

[hrm]

lol...

In Malaysia they messed with the garbage, dirty the city, steal things... :hmm: including jewellery and etc.

;D crows will be crows I agree.
:wa:

[Ramadhan]

Why should snakes be harmed unless they pose an active threat - they are excellent at keeping down rats, mice and other small vermin. There are those that blame the recent plague of mice in Australia on a campaign to eradicate "dangerous" reptiles, without the snakkes to controll them the mouse population grew out of control, of course when they had eaten all the food the population crashed but they did a heck of a lot of damage. don'y know if you ever saw that film of a sheet of corrugated iron being lifted and several thousand mice stampeding away from the light.

Rats/mice were introduced to Australia by early europeans settlers, so they are not natives. They thrive on australian agriculture landscape/climate.
No matter how many native snakes there are, it is impossible to control mice/rats in Australia as they breed like millions per pair within a year.

This is the same case where rabbits, camels, etc exploded in populations in Australia. They are not native animals.

[syilla]

New Zealand and Ireland don't have snakes... but new zealands occasionally or rarely get visits from the sea snakes. :D :D

[gang4]

yeah, that's exactly what I meant. Ant & Sparrow Hawk are not allowed to be killed and the others like Crows are allowed to be killed if it attack us. So, what if a tiger escaped from a zoo is attacking us, can we kill it or not? Are the animal allowed to be killed only from the hadith?

Or, this hadith just confirm the only animal can be killed during ihram?

My two cents,
There is an experiment done by team of psychologist about color affecting human response...

Certain color (let say Green since I forgot) has a calm, suitable effect etc (basically it is good) to human emotion...

Yellowish color that could be found in the bath____... wanna make us puke.

If we ask why green color make us this way and yellowish color make us that way... of course there is list of possibilities of answers or actual answer(s).

The answers may follows logic or maybe not.


Muslims are commanded to obey Allah and Allah's Messenger.
Some may follow logic, some may follow logic but we simply do not know, some maybe not....Only Allah knows the best.

For example, when we 'gas'.. it annuls our Wudhu. The unclean part is our behind yet we water our hands, our face, our head, our feet etc... almost any parts of our body except the behind part....(it may follow logic but simply I do not know)

It is good to have a self-refrain... Refraining from questions Why we commanded this way not that way?

Trying to follow the commands as best, it is already a big challenge...

[de_ruutje]

My two cents,
There is an experiment done by team of psychologist about color affecting human response...

Certain color (let say Green since I forgot) has a calm, suitable effect etc (basically it is good) to human emotion...

Yellowish color that could be found in the bath____... wanna make us puke.

If we ask why green color make us this way and yellowish color make us that way... of course there is list of possibilities of answers or actual answer(s).

The answers may follows logic or maybe not.


Muslims are commanded to obey Allah and Allah's Messenger.
Some may follow logic, some may follow logic but we simply do not know, some maybe not....Only Allah knows the best.

For example, when we 'gas'.. it annuls our Wudhu. The unclean part is our behind yet we water our hands, our face, our head, our feet etc... almost any parts of our body except the behind part....(it may follow logic but simply I do not know)

It is good to have a self-refrain... Refraining from questions Why we commanded this way not that way?

Trying to follow the commands as best, it is already a big challenge...

Maybe you're right. I think human brain still can't figure out what actually the purpose of some commands. As long as the commands are good for us and the others we should follow it. But still, as a human we always have to think first before doing something. If it is not harmful for human being that mean we can do it. This is all my fault, I should learn more from Quran and Hadith, not just using logical thinking. I know my knowledge about Islam is just too little and I hope Allah will help me to be a better muslim. Ameen.

[hrm]

I know my knowledge about Islam is just too little and I hope Allah will help me to be a better muslim. Ameen.

:statisfie Aameen wa InshaAllah

[gang4]

.... I think human brain still can't figure out what actually the purpose of some commands. As long as the commands are good for us and the others we should follow it. But still, as a human we always have to think first before doing something.

my one cent,
Allah knows what we do not know...Allah is Most Merciful...Allah's commands must be good for us...Commands are to be followed ...not some problems to be solved.

Thinking may lead us to the danger zone of agreeing or disagreeing the commands...hence we may obey or disobey Allah.

Of course, we are recommended to use our cognitive power to think...it may good for us if we think about all things found in creations.

How about just putting our trust to Allah.

Obeying Allah's commands, for sure, is more important than having the knowledge (i.e., the purpose of the commands etc.)

If we are allowed to take a lesson in the story of Adam a.s.,
Prophet Adam A.s. lives in Jannah and has only one rule (if we are allowed to count)...do not come near or touch the tree.

Prophet Adam has the knowledge (i.e., the purpose of the commands etc.) yet he still disobeyed the command!


If I am allowed to say it again:
Obeying Allah's commands, for sure, is more important than having the knowledge (i.e., the purpose of the commands etc.)

....I know my knowledge about Islam is just too little and I hope Allah will help me to be a better muslim. Ameen.

You are not alone, akhi... my knowledge about Islam is close to nothing....
I hope Allah will help all Muslims to be a better Muslims. Ameen.

[de_ruutje]

Yeah, you're right. I hope Allah will increase my faith and make me always on His way.
But, hey brother, Faith is nothing without knowledge, and Knowledge is nothing without faith.

[gang4]

Yeah, you're right. I hope Allah will increase my faith and make me always on His way.
But, hey brother, Faith is nothing without knowledge, and Knowledge is nothing without faith.

Beautifully said, akhi...
I should explain much better on my previous posts...but, probably I've said enough already....

Salam

[Habibi1]

Another speculation, forgive me, but to me it makes sense, perhaps to you too.

Not a "hungry" dog is meant. This word 'voracious' could mean that it eats too much and never gets enough.

This could be because it has an intestinal worm, which can also infect humans.

The second reason is, that a dog like this could also cause the family poverty.

Seriously, not all people can afford a voracious dog...

Just my 2 cents, maybe I'm wrong.