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Thinker
08-27-2009, 07:41 AM
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...s-1777875.html

Wasn’t it just a matter of time? Are vulnerable shopkeepers justified in denying access to anyone wearing a burkha?
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Azy
08-27-2009, 07:51 AM
I'm pretty sure there were other raids on jewellers in the news not long ago. I'm also pretty sure this discussion has been had before and just descends into "Shopkeepers are legally entitled to refuse service to anyone" versus "Racists! We can wear what we like". Yes you can, but don't expect to get served everywhere if you do.

Disclaimer: It's still early, that might not be the best post ever written.
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_PakistaN_
08-27-2009, 08:00 AM
I'm sure this is not the first time this has happened. I'n countries like Pakistan and India I am quite sure this happens often. Sometimes we do not notice because half of the things will not come up on the media.
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aamirsaab
08-27-2009, 09:23 AM
:sl:
Robbers disguise themselves - that's how they get away with it. A burka does not grant one immunity from the law.

Though I have to say I'm getting real tired of these prats hi-jacking my religion like this!

Originally Posted by Thinker
Are vulnerable shopkeepers justified in denying access to anyone wearing a burkha?
Not really; if it is a guy underneath, you can hear his voice. If he's got a gun or axe in one of his pockets, I'm pretty sure he'd stand out.
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S_87
08-27-2009, 11:18 AM
stupid people...but banning the is nto gonna do anything. if a person wants to rob he/she will find a way to do it regardless...
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Snowflake
08-27-2009, 11:48 AM
I'm wondering why they had to use burkhas when there are plenty of disguises? It sounds like a deliberate attempt to provide a reason for banning the burkha.

a man dressed in a black burkha went into First Choice Travel in The Broadway, Dunstable, on Tuesday 7 July, at around 10.15am.
Also, I wonder how is it that a travel company like First Choice didn't have CCTV cameras in the shop, as there seem to be no pictures of the robbers.
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Azy
08-27-2009, 12:01 PM
Originally Posted by amani
stupid people...but banning the is nto gonna do anything. if a person wants to rob he/she will find a way to do it regardless...
True, but if you can see their face you have a better chance of catching them. This isn't really very helpful in the case of robberies, once they're in the door it's too late. It would seem to make a big difference to other crimes such as shoplifting or credit card fraud, as the crime is not usually detected straight away staff must check CCTV or ask witnesses.

I'd love to wear my favourite balaclava in NatWest, but the staff can and will ask me to leave and a police officer is within his rights to ask me to take it off.
Originally Posted by Scents of Jannah
It sounds like a deliberate attempt to provide a reason for banning the burkha.
Conspiracy exposed! Erm, perhaps it's because wearing a clown mask in a shopping centre would raise suspicion?
Originally Posted by Scents of Jannah
as there seem to be no pictures of the robbers.
What good would it do?
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S_87
08-27-2009, 12:21 PM
Originally Posted by Azy
True, but if you can see their face you have a better chance of catching them. This isn't really very helpful in the case of robberies, once they're in the door it's too late. It would seem to make a big difference to other crimes such as shoplifting or credit card fraud, as the crime is not usually detected straight away staff must check CCTV or ask witnesses.
what i mean is, a baklava/a niqab/ a helmet they are just props for people....are person who is determined to rob in disguise can do it even without these things...a big coat a wig a hat a lot of makeup....where theres a will theres a way. its not because of the burkha that they managed to rob...so many robberies are made all the time with people having their face uncovered and STILL not caught.
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Ummu Sufyaan
08-27-2009, 12:25 PM
some people and their desperate attempts :-\

Wasn’t it just a matter of time? Are vulnerable shopkeepers justified in denying access to anyone wearing a burkha?
isnt it time we banned women from wearing revealing clothing. after all, we don't want perverts staring after them, right?

Originally Posted by Azy
We can wear what we like". Yes you can, but don't expect to get served everywhere if you do.
wouldn't that depend on the their policies?if it isn't written in their policies, then they have no right rejecting anyone.

Originally Posted by Azy
Conspiracy exposed! Erm, perhaps it's because wearing a clown mask in a shopping centre would raise suspicion?
no it wont, it'll just get a whole bunch of people looking at you strangely.

Barred from Paradise
your not obliged to answer this, but was it your intent to enter it to begin with?
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Snowflake
08-27-2009, 12:30 PM
=Azy;1210804]

Conspiracy exposed! Erm, perhaps it's because wearing a clown mask in a shopping centre would raise suspicion?
Erm... yeh someone goes out of their way to buy a burkha which is not part of their normal dress, like hoodies and caps that can be used to disguise? Lol, kinda makes it's pretty obvious it was more of a 'message' than a disguise.

What good would it do?
Well you see, it would actually show that two men wearing a burkha tried to commit a robbery and could lead to clues as to where it was purchased. I doubt they just grabbed them off someone's washing line. :hmm:
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Azy
08-27-2009, 12:35 PM
Originally Posted by Umm ul-Shaheed
isnt it time we banned women from wearing revealing clothing. after all, we don't want perverts staring after them, right?
Staring at people isn't a crime ;)
Originally Posted by Umm ul-Shaheed
wouldn't that depend on the their policies?if it isn't written in their policies, then they have no right rejecting anyone.
Depends where you live. In the UK, where the event took place, you can refuse entry or service to anyone without any reason. Just like you don't have to admit anyone into your home.
Originally Posted by Umm ul-Shaheed
no it wont, it'll just get a whole bunch of people looking at you strangely.
In my book that counts as suspicion ;)
Originally Posted by Umm ul-Shaheed
your not obliged to answer this
True.
Originally Posted by Scents of Jannah
like hoodies and caps that can be used to disguise?
They don't do as good a job of concealing your identity when speaking face to face.
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Ummu Sufyaan
08-27-2009, 12:46 PM
Originally Posted by Azy
Staring at people isn't a crime ;)
no but staring and perving at women leads to molestation, i,e a crime the same way wearing a burka is apparently going to incite security issues i.e a crime.

In my book that counts as suspicion ;)
your "book" needs to be edited.
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Azy
08-27-2009, 01:34 PM
You're all missing the point. Noone is banning anything.
Originally Posted by Umm ul-Shaheed
no but staring and perving at women leads to molestation, i,e a crime the same way wearing a burka is apparently going to incite security issues i.e a crime.
That's not what people are saying. Wearing a disguise is not likely to induce you to commit a crime, but if you're going to commit a crime you're likely to want to wear a disguise, so there is a correlation between the two. Catching criminals is hard when you don't know who they are. Also a police officer can already ask you to remove any items which conceal your identity.
Originally Posted by Umm ul-Shaheed
your "book" needs to be edited.
I'm not sure. Suspicious derives from the Latin word suspectare, which means "to look at".

You're all gasping to find some kind of Islamophobic hate crime in this aren't you? (See my first post :D )
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Snowflake
08-27-2009, 02:07 PM
Azy;1210827]Staring at people isn't a crime ;)
That depends. If you kept staring at complete stranger in public you'd make them uncomfortable and if it's a guy who's just had an argument with the mrs, he'd probably lamp you one. Crime or not, it can lead to one.


They don't do as good a job of concealing your identity when speaking face to face.
And you think it's easy running with a burkha, especially with a sack of notes tucked in your armpits?

Originally Posted by Azy
You're all missing the point. Noone is banning anything.
That's not what people are saying. Wearing a disguise is not likely to induce you to commit a crime, but if you're going to commit a crime you're likely to want to wear a disguise, so there is a correlation between the two. Catching criminals is hard when you don't know who they are. Also a police officer can already ask you to remove any items which conceal your identity.
I'm not sure. Suspicious derives from the Latin word suspectare, which means "to look at".

You're all gasping to find some kind of Islamophobic hate crime in this aren't you? (See my first post :D )
The only correlation here is between 'anti' and 'islam'. Like I said, the burkha is not the kit for commiting robberies. If you tried to climb through a window with one you'd probably slip and break your neck. Neither can you leg it in a burkha at breakneck speed if you're being chased by the police.

Why can't you accept that haters will do anything to belittle Islam without realising that concealing their faces won't help in concealing their intentions.

Ha! What's even the point of this discussion... Islam will prosper regardless! Ameen :D


Ciao
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Muezzin
08-27-2009, 02:10 PM
Shopkeepers can deny access to any customer. Theoretically. If they can handle a few potential discrimination claims down the road. People sue for less (litigation makes people crazy). I am not saying people should automatically sue if they are ever refused custom for any reason. That is retarded. There are plenty of other shops.

Originally Posted by Azy
Conspiracy exposed! Erm, perhaps it's because wearing a clown mask in a shopping centre would raise suspicion?
Why re-enact The Dark Knight when you can simply apply prosthetics to the face?

Criminals ruin everything for everyone, unless they are fictional.
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Muhammad
08-27-2009, 02:37 PM
Please remember that the World Affairs section is closed for Ramadhan, therefore it is unacceptable to post articles belonging to that section in any other part of the forum.

Thread closed.
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