PDA

View Full Version : If Adam and Eve were white where did all the other races come from?



AnonymousPoster
09-06-2009, 12:45 PM
I was telling someone at work about Islam and he said to me,

"If Adam and Eve were white or black or whatever they were, how did all the different races come about like chinese, black, white, shouldn't we all be white if that's what our parents Adam and Eve were.

He also asked me this,

"Adam and Eve's children were brother and sister, so does that mean it's ok to sleep with your sister? cos they did it."
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
AnonymousPoster
09-06-2009, 12:50 PM
I forgot, he also said "are all the product of an incestious relationship then?"
Reply

aamirsaab
09-06-2009, 01:01 PM
Originally Posted by AnonymousGender
I was telling someone at work about Islam and he said to me,

"If Adam and Eve were white or black or whatever they were, how did all the different races come about like chinese, black, white, shouldn't we all be white if that's what our parents Adam and Eve were.
I'll leave this one to Skye - she knows more about this topic than me, and she'll explain it better.

He also asked me this,

"Adam and Eve's children were brother and sister, so does that mean it's ok to sleep with your sister? cos they did it."
No. Adam and Eve wore very little - do that today and you go to jail for exposing yourself. So that's that logic dealt with!

It was allowed then because logically speaking it was the only way the human species could have survived beyond two people! It's now disallowed (unanimously apart from certain urban areas cough chav-cities/redknecker-woods cough) for sociological reasons; there are also medical reasons too (which I'll let the scientists on board to deal with).
Reply

glo
09-06-2009, 01:03 PM
Genetically speaking, incest can lead to all kinds of kinds of genetic diseases and complications. Not a very safe way to start off the entire human race.

There are of course some who consider the creation story to be a figurative account, rather than a literal one ...



Alpha, according to your understanding was incest allowed until Muhammed brought the new law against it?
Would the prophets who came before him not spoken out against incest too?

I never understood that Muhammed brought new laws - I thought he brought the same message other prophets had brought before him.
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
czgibson
09-06-2009, 01:14 PM
Greetings,

You only have to deal with awkward questions like this if you take the story of Adam and Eve literally.

Peace
Reply

IceQueen~
09-06-2009, 01:20 PM
check out Ibn Katheer's stories of the Prophets, this stuff is dealt with there
Reply

Muhaba
09-06-2009, 01:21 PM
I guess Allah had placed the genes of all nations in Adam and Eve.

Rules at that time were different. For example, Eve was created from Adam (A.S) yet was made his wife.
Reply

Muslim Woman
09-06-2009, 01:40 PM
Salaam/Peace

Originally Posted by AnonymousGender
..."If Adam and Eve were white or black or whatever they were, how did all the different races come about
I read in an article that Eve was black . Anyway , He who created the whole Universe , Human , Jinn ,angels , skies , oceans and everything between Heavens and earth , is it hard/ impossible for Him to create different races ??

O mankind! We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another.

Verily, the most honourable of you with Allah is that (believer) who has At-Taqwa (i.e. one of the Muttaqoon (pious - see V.2:2). Verily, Allah is All-Knowing, All-Aware.

( سورة الحجرات , Al-Hujraat, Chapter #49, Verse #13)


"Adam and Eve's children were brother and sister, so does that mean it's ok to sleep with your sister? cos they did it."
This has been answered in the forum earlier . Regarding Hadith , Adam and Eve (pbut) had 100 pairs / twins kids. Bro of one pair was allowed to marry sister of another pair. Marriage between bro and sis of same pair was not allowed .

When number of humans increased , then marriage between bro and sis became illegal / totally forbidden .
Reply

MMohammed
09-06-2009, 01:57 PM
:sl:
There is a hadith in which Prophet(S.A.W) told "Everyone has a different face, thinking, personality because everyone is made from the different part of the earth".
Reply

MMohammed
09-06-2009, 02:04 PM
And at those times, IT WAS ALLOWED TO MARRY FROM THE SIBLINGS FOR THEY HAD TO INCREASE THEIR NUMBERS.
Was there any other way?
Reply

Woodrow
09-06-2009, 02:11 PM
The genetics offf Adam and Hawya are very complicated. They would have had between them all of the genes responsible for every Human trait between them.

Without turning this into a long discussion over the science of genetics, just sop and think. They had they had the potential to produce children of every race.


It is over time and environment we lost some genes in the various races leaving just specific sets for each race. The easiest description as to how this took place is in the Hadith:



Originally Posted by MMohammed
:sl:
There is a hadith in which Prophet(S.A.W) says "Everyone has a different face, thinking, personality because everyone is made from the different part of the earth".
Thinking about it that is a very good explanation and a good description of genetics in daily language.
Reply

czgibson
09-06-2009, 02:13 PM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by Woodrow
The genetics offf Adam and Hawya are very complicated. They would have had between them all of the genes responsible for every Human trait between them.
Is that possible?

Peace
Reply

- Qatada -
09-06-2009, 02:25 PM
asalaam alaikum


Adam and Eve had children, and these like Alpha said on the first post - twins were born [as mentioned by Ibn Katheer], and one from each pair would marry the other from the other pair.


Now in regard to the mutation aspect - this is a response by Abdul Fattah;

Mutations also aren't as common as you make it seem, and it is very unlikely that the first children already all had these mutations. It would probably take several generations.

Secondly, merely for the sake of argument, even if their children would have these mutations, it's highly unlikly for them to all have the same mutations, hence the second generation will not have an issue with this either.

And thirdly, again, as muslims we don't believe in the existence of chance, everything follows a cause and effect. And you build on the premise that indeed an omnipotent and omniscient God created them, then it seems perfectly plausible that God didn't "cause" any mutations to occur in the first few generations, untill there was a large enough population to intermingle.

http://www.islamic-life.com/forums/atheism-agnosticism/questions-confusions-existence-god-2082/page3#post10256
Reply

Sampharo
09-06-2009, 04:19 PM
The majority opinion about that specific issue of Adam's children that is adopted by many muslim scholars based on the collectives of stories regarding them is that Qabeel was given a woman from the Jinn, and Habeel were given women from the Hour Al-Ain of Janna, which Qabeel felt jealous considering he was the older. They did not have children.

The other main son of Adam Shaith is the grandfather of prophet Idris and Noah and Ibrahim.

In other stories the wives were twin sisters who were mixed up and Qabeel got Habeel's twin while Habeel got Qabeel's twin who was more beautiful, making Qabeel jealous that he got the less beautiful wife.

Anyway, the recorded tradition and hadith say that the races were not then, they were after Noah's ark landed and the families who believed woke up to different languages and separated to found their own tribes and nations. Noah's three sons formed the three main races of Abysinians (africans), Greeks, and the son Sam was the father of Ibrahim, from him were the Arabs and Israelites.

God knows best there is much conjecture and sources are mixed with jewish scripture so authenticity is hard to determine.
Reply

glo
09-06-2009, 06:25 PM
Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
Glo, to my knowledge, it was only allowed for the children of Adam.
The grandchildren of Adam and eve would still be genetically awfully close to produce healthy offspring.

I think unless we pull the God-performed-a-miracle-card (which, of course, he may have done), we cannot really explain the creation of the entire human race as descending from one couple ... not scientifically or genetically speaking.
Reply

Mohamed_
09-06-2009, 06:32 PM
Originally Posted by AnonymousGender
"Adam and Eve's children were brother and sister..."
I was a student at a christian grade school for 8 years... We were also learning about christian faith.
They teached me, Adam and Eve's children were brothers, Kain and Abel. Kain didn't like Abel, so Kain killed Abel.

Did my teachers and the whole christian thing is a big lie?????????^o):uuh:<_<:-\
Reply

zakirs
09-06-2009, 06:52 PM

Assuredly the creation of the heavens and the earth is greater than the creation of mankind; but most of mankind know not.
(Al-Ghaafir: 57)


I think unless we pull the God-performed-a-miracle-card (which, of course, he may have done), we cannot really explain the creation of the entire human race as descending from one couple ... not scientifically or genetically speaking.
:sl: sis
God can do anything he wills.So it is not compulsary for science to explain everything :)
Reply

abu_musab461
09-06-2009, 07:02 PM
Sorry to divert the thread but

Is it true that Christianity it is believed that prophet Lut (as) got drunk and commited incest with his daughter then the next night his other wanted to commit incest so got him drunk.... ??
Reply

abu_musab461
09-06-2009, 07:05 PM
Allah (swt) commanded the angels to take the soil/ clay from different part of the earth, and thus created man, from dark, browns, yellow etc shaded of dirt from the earth.

Mentioned in Ibn Kathir commented by Imam Anwar Awlaki
Reply

cat eyes
09-06-2009, 08:36 PM
i studied this subject and its a very long subject which is clear you need to gain knowledge on.

every pregnacy eve had were all twins boy and girl. the twins that came from the same tummy were not allowed to marry eachother but they were allowed to marry the next set of twins, one boy from the first tummy to the girl from the next tummy if that makes sense.

Allah made it allowed then but its not allowed now brother. remember reading in news paper once, a guy wanted to marry his sister because they were attracted to eachother, he thought it was allowed because it was allowed in the old times but he ended up getting arrested anyway. :)
so not only is it not allowed its also a big crime also and there so many mix ups that can happen, diseases you name it.. its an endless list and he didnt have an answer then to give to the judge.
Reply

جوري
09-06-2009, 10:57 PM
before I answer this Q. I'd like to know your alternative to the Adam and Eve story?!

1- Each cell in your body carries the entire genetic code, but pre-programmed to produce only its specific protein or enzyme, or a particular end product etc.
for instance myelin is produced by oligodendrocytes although oligodendrocytes contain all the genetic material, your chondrocytes produce type II collagen although they contain all the genetic material to produce any outcome. However they carry out only a specific function.. sort of like a calculator can produce any number combination but is usually used for one specific function which you program into it .
The creation of Adam from all parts of the earth is a simile for carrying all the genetic material to produce any kind of offspring. You have different alleles one member of a pair combining to make any number of assortment through copulation and genetic drift over time.

Adam and Eve weren't related and there was only one generation of consanguineous relationships. There wasn't an enough lapse of time for any sort of genetic diseases to be borne a new.. if it were a progressive, over several generations type incestuous relations then indeed there would have been a higher chance of genetic diseases, but that wasn't the case..

Now, I'd like to propose you or anyone on board who disagrees with the religious stand on it to come up with a scientific alternative to Adam and Eve and work out the particulars.. if you start from a single celled organism and work yourself up to a complex being and make of that being a male and a female, you'll actually set yourself back and the end result you'll still have that male and female coupling and their off spring as well if the specie is to continue .. as you know modern man hasn't always been in existence .. we weren't always here, so you'll have alot more details to account for if the religious stance on thing doesn't appeal to you, or if you are a sell out to your own religion, so for instance those who think that Adam and Eve are some sort of euphemism but don't seem to apply the same logic of their god having an affair with a woman, being born to a woman, forsaking himself, dying, abrogating his own commandments through charlatans.. if that makes sense to you but Adam and Eve doesn't be my guest.. but you have to defend your stance on things whatever your perspective..

if you don't believe in God or the story of creation, you'll have to do better than mock the story of creation. Give a clear concise alternative..

and if you think the story is some sort of Hoax but still believe in a lesser God, then you'd still have to defend your position of why some things in your religion which are alot less logical seem to make better sense to you than a man and a woman populating the earth!

all the best!
Reply

جوري
09-06-2009, 11:05 PM
An example of a white mother and a colored father with children that run the gamut in coloring




a black mother and her albino white child




here is a woman with two twins one black and one white





and although this child has a medical condition called Waardenburg syndrome.. you can see how even a black child can have very striking blue eyes



it happens, it isn't so inconceivable!
you don't have to even stretch your imagination for it or theorize of how it could be.. it is visible to the naked eye!
and an every day occurrence in some part of the world!
Reply

MSalman
09-06-2009, 11:14 PM
Originally Posted by Sampharo
The majority opinion about that specific issue of Adam's children that is adopted by many muslim scholars based on the collectives of stories regarding them is that Qabeel was given a woman from the Jinn, and Habeel were given women from the Hour Al-Ain of Janna, which Qabeel felt jealous considering he was the older. They did not have children.
:sl:

akhee, this is very new to me, can you provide some reference for this, jazak Allah khayr?

@ OP

ask how did human race increase? Did we had 100 of humans suddenly evolving into humans from monkeys or did we had few monkeys having sex with evolved super monkeys (humans) or vice versa which then helped to increase the human population? Was that not incest?

actually a question to atheists/evolutionists, how do you explain the growth in human population?

I mean the thing is why liberalists/atheists would have problem with incest? If you are in favour of allowing gayness and accepting it in the society then why some of you are against incest or having any problem with Islamic understanding of how the human population was spread!?
Reply

cat eyes
09-06-2009, 11:35 PM
we have a hell load of cells like millions and trillions and just imagine in every cell has many different functions and contains nucleus and every nucleus contains 99.9 percent of your genes! your genes are make up your dna........ anyway your question is very much answered by the other brothers and sisters

anyway your mate surely knows about this. hes probably pulling your leg
Reply

Woodrow
09-06-2009, 11:43 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,


Is that possible?

Peace
Not only possible, most probable no matter what concept of Creation or evolution you use. But, speaking from a scientific view it would mean that at least one of them had to be black and for a larger selection of genetic material available both would have been black.

It would then actually have been possible for them to have children with full sets of different genes, in other words their chidren need not have been geneticaly related as the gene pool would have been larger.
Reply

جوري
09-07-2009, 12:03 AM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Not only possible, most probable no matter what concept of Creation or evolution you use. But, speaking from a scientific view it would mean that at least one of them had to be black and for a larger selection of genetic material available both would have been black.

It would then actually have been possible for them to have children with full sets of different genes, in other words their chidren need not have been geneticaly related as the gene pool would have been larger.

:sl:

that is excellent, I am afraid not many people understand especially your last statement which is where all the juice is concentrated.. but to make even more distilled an explanation.

If you start off with two very large highways, the two highways merge and have several smaller byways, thereby you have distributed a different set of information to each small byway.. when they later merge, you'll have a complete new set of information compassing large variance and so on and so on. ..

:w:
Reply

MMohammed
09-07-2009, 12:18 AM
Originally Posted by abu_musab461
Allah (swt) commanded the angels to take the soil/ clay from different part of the earth, and thus created man, from dark, browns, yellow etc shaded of dirt from the earth.

Mentioned in Ibn Kathir commented by Imam Anwar Awlaki
I stated its Hadith.Well Said.One Person has posted a pictures of the families and the different colors and faces of their offsprings than their parents.
Reply

AnonymousPoster
09-07-2009, 08:08 AM
Thanks everyone, I've printed the answers off and will show him :) It's too complicated for me to explain lol. :statisfie
Reply

Arain.Faizan
09-07-2009, 09:10 AM
Originally Posted by Sampharo
The majority opinion about that specific issue of Adam's children that is adopted by many muslim scholars based on the collectives of stories regarding them is that Qabeel was given a woman from the Jinn, and Habeel were given women from the Hour Al-Ain of Janna, which Qabeel felt jealous considering he was the older. They did not have children.

The other main son of Adam Shaith is the grandfather of prophet Idris and Noah and Ibrahim.

In other stories the wives were twin sisters who were mixed up and Qabeel got Habeel's twin while Habeel got Qabeel's twin who was more beautiful, making Qabeel jealous that he got the less beautiful wife.

Anyway, the recorded tradition and hadith say that the races were not then, they were after Noah's ark landed and the families who believed woke up to different languages and separated to found their own tribes and nations. Noah's three sons formed the three main races of Abysinians (africans), Greeks, and the son Sam was the father of Ibrahim, from him were the Arabs and Israelites.

God knows best there is much conjecture and sources are mixed with jewish scripture so authenticity is hard to determine.

well nicely explained , as far as my knowledge is concerned they were brothers and sisters , and the law was that boy of one pair should marry the girl of other pair, later on it was alerted that the boy of morning will marry with the girl of evening (as at that time they gave birth to the children's both times daily!! in morning & in evening) thats how the humanity spread out.

then yes Qabeel get jealous , cause he did like woman he was given , and in anger he did murder of Habeel (Quran defines this in Surah Al-Maida (Surah # 05) then ALLAH sent down the crow who showed him how to bury a deadbody.

here are the Ayats

27.And (O Muhammad ) recite to them (the Jews) the story of the two sons of Adam [Hâbil (Abel) and Qâbil (Cain)] in truth; when each offered a sacrifice (to Allâh), it was accepted from the one but not from the other. The latter said to the former: "I will surely kill you. " The former said: "Verily, Allâh accepts only from those who are Al-Muttaqûn (the pious - see V.2:2)."

28. "If you do stretch your hand against me to kill me, I shall never stretch my hand against you to kill you, for I fear Allâh; the Lord of the 'Alamîn (mankind, jinns, and all that exists)."

29. "Verily, I intend to let you draw my sin on yourself as well as yours, then you will be one of the dwellers of the Fire, and that is the recompense of the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrong*doers)."

30. So the Nafs (self) of the other (latter one) encouraged him and made fair*seeming to him the murder of his brother; he murdered him and became one of the losers.

31.Then Allâh sent a crow who scratched the ground to show him to hide the dead body of his brother. He (the murderer) said: "Woe to me! Am I not even able to be as this crow and to hide the dead body of my brother?" Then he became one of those who regretted.

32. Because of that We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind. And indeed, there came to them Our Messengers with clear proofs, evidences, and signs, even then after that many of them continued to exceed the limits (e.g. by doing oppression unjustly and exceeding beyond the limits set by Allâh by committing the major sins) in the land!.


in the last i would like to add that this is the way of ALLAH's teaching that when a new prophet (A.S) came up the Sahriah (Law, Rules & Regulations) of the previous all Prophet (A.S) become totally void , and then not remain practicable , although in many of the cases many of the law remains same.
and now we are and all the humanity is bound to follow the Shariah given to Prophet (S.A.W) as he is the last prophet sent to us, therefore now it is the duty of every humanbeing that he should follow the Shariah and should take care of his/her brother and sisters.

:sl:
Reply

glo
09-07-2009, 05:49 PM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
before I answer this Q. I'd like to know your alternative to the Adam and Eve story?!

1- Each cell in your body carries the entire genetic code, but pre-programmed to produce only its specific protein or enzyme, or a particular end product etc.
for instance myelin is produced by oligodendrocytes although oligodendrocytes contain all the genetic material, your chondrocytes produce type II collagen although they contain all the genetic material to produce any outcome. However they carry out only a specific function.. sort of like a calculator can produce any number combination but is usually used for one specific function which you program into it .
The creation of Adam from all parts of the earth is a simile for carrying all the genetic material to produce any kind of offspring. You have different alleles one member of a pair combining to make any number of assortment through copulation and genetic drift over time.

Adam and Eve weren't related and there was only one generation of consanguineous relationships. There wasn't an enough lapse of time for any sort of genetic diseases to be borne a new.. if it were a progressive, over several generations type incestuous relations then indeed there would have been a higher chance of genetic diseases, but that wasn't the case..
I understand what you are saying, Skye.

Do you have thoughts on why the incestuous relationships between Adam's and Eve's children did not lead to an increase in genetic diseases ... if that is what modern medicine would be anticipating if an incestuous incident of such magnitude (i.e siblings of one single family interbreeding with each other) would occur nowadays?

There seems to me a discrepancy between the creation account in Bible and Qu'ran and the knowledge which has been gained by modern science and medicine.
For this I can think of the following explanations:

  • Either modern science has got it wrong

  • or the account in our holy books is not to be taken literal

  • or the circumstances during creation were a miracle and therefore set apart from natural events as we know them


(I hope you don't find my question inappropriate. It is meant very much in line with the question posed by the OP. )
Reply

جوري
09-07-2009, 06:05 PM
I wanted to share this from a brother on board who is a geneticist, with his permission:

There is actually little genetic variability within the human race and for that matter between humans and chimpanzees. We don’t know but Allah (swt) could have created both the genetic variation and caused the genetic drift to define the races through reproductive isolation as well as the mutations that cause genetic diseases as a means to discourage incest. There are a few genetic diseases even in very inbred breeds of dogs-- How many defects would show up in humans with this high degree of inbreeding?

The assumption is that Adam would have been genetically pure of defects, but not necessarily that he was homozygous for every gene. I also believe that Allah (swt) continues to direct changes that we perceive as natural processes and the atheistic evolutionist interprets as naturalistic evolution. Surah 29:19-20 Do they not see how Allah originates creation then repeats its process? Surely it is easy for Allah. Say to them: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah originates the creation, then creates the later creation.”
I downloaded a program to calculate inbreeding coefficients and determined that the dog below, has one of 0.3125 and she is a normal dog.


(I couldn't include the diagram for the inbred species of dogs in the mention above) the daughter of 2 half-siblings who then mated her father, the coefficient calculated denotes a normal dog.




and Allah swt knows best
Reply

جوري
09-07-2009, 06:07 PM
I think the above post though I hadn't actually posted it a reply to you glo, should take care of the long and the short end of your queries. Also not every relationship after the first generation of off spring of Adam and Eve was incestuous!

all the best
Reply

جوري
09-07-2009, 06:23 PM
BTW, out of curiosity, I wonder how folks who view homosexuality as normal and Ok, for it is consensual, feel about siblings marrying and having off spring if it is also consensual?

Here are siblings in Germany who were defended by a lawyer stating:
' who are we to define a family unit'
They apparently went on to have four healthy children.

Incest is forbidden in Islam, but was allowed for the first offspring, as calculated in the above inbred example has little risk of major genetic defects!

Dangerous Love

German High Court Takes a Look at Incest

By Dietmar Hipp
Must consensual sex between close relatives be punished? Germany's highest court is about to rule whether incest will continue to result in a jail term. It is referring to the case of a brother and sister who have already had four children together.



DPA
Brother and sister, and lovers with four children. Patrick and Susan from Leipzig.


At first sight they look like an ordinary couple, strolling through the park with their child and their dog. But when the two adults hug each other their physical similarities are unmistakable. They have the same pronounced nose, the same blue-green eyes, and the same thin lips. Patrick S. and Susan K. are brother and sister. They are an incestuous couple. Since Susan became pregnant with Patrick's child and their relationship became known to the authorities, they have been prosecuted repeatedly. Their case touches an age-old taboo, it's exotic and tragic at the same time. "Coitus between relatives" is illegal in German law and punishable with a fine or a jail sentence.
Patrick S. has served a jail sentence of more than two years because of his love for his sister, and he may have to go back to jail for at least another year, unless Germany's Federal Constitutional Court rules in his favor. The verdict is expected soon.
The key issue is whether the protection of a powerful moral taboo is sufficient justification for punishment. And whether there are reasons beyond that taboo for locking someone up, for depriving children of their father, a woman of her partner.
Some 2-4 percent of the population have "incestuous experiences", according to an estimate by the Freiburg-based Max Planck Institute. There are fewer than 10 convictions for incestuous sex in Germany per year.
Incest trials usually involve a father's abuse of an under-age daughter, which is punishable under a separate law on abusing minors. Even cases of incest between siblings that come to trial are usually based on sexual abuse charges.
Consensual Incest
But in cases of incest between two consenting partners like Susan K. and Patrick S. there is no victim to be protected. Theirs is a rare case. Patrick S. was born in Leipzig in 1976, the second of five children. His sister Susan K. was born eight years later, and he didn't meet her until he was 23.
The father was a violent alcoholic. When Patrick was three years old his father grabbed him and held a knife to his throat. Neighbors called the police and Patrick was taken into care before being handed to foster parents near Potsdam. His new family adopted him, but they eventually told him they weren't his real parents.
Patrick is a shy man. When he speaks, he frequently looks down at the floor, tells his story with few words and a soft voice. When he was 23 he went to the youth welfare office to find his real mother. A few days later she contacted him.
On May 20, 2000 he travelled to Leipzig to see his mother again for the first time in 20 years. His parents had separated long before and the mother had a new partner. The three other siblings have since died, and the 16-year-old girl staring at him wide-eyed across the living room table was his sister.
Susan K. is a bit slow mentally. She looks up to her brother because he seems so capable and experienced compared to her. He was only meant to stay for a week but Patrick's mother asked him to stay longer. He said yes. "I felt drawn there," he recalls. He gave up everything. A job in Berlin, a relationship with his girlfriend at the time, and moved into a four-room flat in an apartment block near Leipzig.
There was a stepbrother who had his own room, and Patrick and his sister shared a room. No one thought anything of it and the relationship at that time was still platonic, says Patrick. Suddenly, on Dec. 12, 2000, their mother died. She had heart problems but the exact cause of death was never found.
"We couldn't cope with losing our mother," says Patrick. Before her death his relationship with his sister was "quite normal," says Patrick. Afterwards "the connection between us grew stronger because we were the only remaining children of our parents." Initially no one appeared to notice that the relationship between the two had become intimate.
Incestuous Desire Is Ages Old
The phenomenon of incestuous desire is ages old, as is the taboo surrounding it. Napoleonic France stopped punishing incest in 1810 in the wake of the declaration of civil and human rights during French Revolution that the law only has the right to prohibit such actions that are damaging to society. It's impossible, or at least very hard to prove that consensual incest does such damage.


German law since 1973 has stated that punishing incest serves to protect families from destructive influences. But social research shows that incest is more likely to be the result of family problems than the cause. Eugenic aspects, which the German statue book cites regarding sibling incest, are a poor justification for punishment. The risk of hereditary disease for offspring also exists with other people with genetic defects. Yet the German constitution would scarcely forbid such people from having children. It's the physical proximity of siblings as they grow up that helps to suppress sexual desire between them. But if close relatives only get to know each other as adults, this no longer applies. Patrick S. and Susan K. probably wouldn't have fallen in love if they hadn't grown up apart from each other.
Endless Trials
In October 2001 Susan gave birth to their first child, a boy. A social worker suspected that her brother was the father and reported them to the police. In 2002 Patrick was first taken to court. He got a one-year suspended sentence. Then, they had a second child. The first two children are slightly physically disabled and are a little slow mentally as well. They were both taken into foster care. They then had a third child which had a heart problem, but which is now completely healthy after a heart operation.
In 2004 there was a second trial in which Susan K. was a co-defendant because she was 18 when the second child was conceived. Neither of them was assigned a defense lawyer. Patrick was sentenced to 10 months in jail. Susan was put under the supervision of a social worker for six months.
After his second conviction Patrick approached a lawyer who appealed against the verdict. Meanwhile Susan gave birth to a fourth child. It's healthy and she was allowed to keep it.
Both were put on trial again. Patrick got sentenced to one year and two months in jail, and his sister was again placed under supervision. An experienced lawyer then took over the case and managed to bring it before the Federal Constitutional Court. By November 2006 Patrick had served his second sentence. Only if the court now rules against his third sentence will he be spared a further jail term.
"One can't put this poor person in jail again," said his lawyer Endrik Wilhelm.



http://www.spiegel.de/international/...540831,00.html
Reply

Bub
09-07-2009, 06:43 PM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
An example of a white mother and a colored father with children that run the gamut in coloring




a black mother and her albino white child




here is a woman with two twins one black and one white





and although this child has a medical condition called Waardenburg syndrome.. you can see how even a black child can have very striking blue eyes



it happens, it isn't so inconceivable!
you don't have to even stretch your imagination for it or theorize of how it could be.. it is visible to the naked eye!
and an every day occurrence in some part of the world!
Well said! One of my girlfriends, she is a black girl and she have blue eyes, masha'Allah!
Reply

Woodrow
09-07-2009, 07:25 PM
Genetics while very complex is essentially very simple. Starting with Adam and Eve there would have been very little change of any duplication for the first few generations. Stop and look at it this way.

Each child from Adam and Eve inherited 1/2 their genetic material from Adam and one half from Eve so lets look at the mathematics.

Let us look at the worse scenerio in which the genetic was simply divided into equal halves for Adam being A and B With Eve being C and D With just that scenerio you would have

Child one A and C genes

Child two A and D Genes

Child Three B and C Genes

Child Four B and D genes

Four basically genetically different children no chance of a genetically incesteous relationship if child one has childen with Four and Child two has children by child three


Now to make the equation a bit more probable, the half half can come from quarters or even greater variations as long as it adds up to half and half.

So just using Quarter Adam would provide any two of A, B, C, and D While Eve would provide any two of E, F, G H

So now suddenly the genetic make up of any child can be very complex just for beginners:

Child one A,B, E, F

2--A,B G,H

3--A, C, E, F

4--A, C G, H

5. A, D E F

6. A D G H

7. B C E F

8--B C G H

9. ETC if my math memory serves me correctly we come up with over 30 different possible combination's each resulting in a Child not genetically identical to any siblings.

so to make a long story short it would have taken several generations after Adam and Eve before there would have been any genetic harm in an incestuous relationship. Therefore there was no need for forbidding of incest.

Incest became forbidden when it was about to become harmful to us, a law given to protect us at the time it became needed.
Reply

13th Yarba
09-07-2009, 08:50 PM
two questions so i will attempt to answer them seperatley but before i do just to say to the original poster - that guy at work was just trying to wind you up, dont feel you have to come up with some kind of definitive answer just to satisy him, but they are interesting questions...

where adam and eve white?

it was so long ago who can say, there aren't any family photographs only paintings which were probably painted by white people long after the event so they instinctively painted without consideration to the race issue. the same could apply to the traditional images of jesus but here comes the fascinating bit - wherever you go in the world, and here i am thinking particlularly of south america, there prophecies all say the same thing ie that a man will come who is tall and white with a long beard and he will save us etc..

so why do we all look unique? why are their black, white, yellow etc?

i consider this a crucialy important subject as there are many problems in society where people treat each other badly because they belive they are somehow different from each other because they look different on the outside.

mankind is belived to have stepped out of north africa approx 2 million years ago and has been spreading around the globe eversince. genetically speaking all humans are practicaly identical but there are slight differences, for example chinese people have an epicural fold over the tops of their eyes, this is believed to have developed during the last ice age (10,000 yrs ago) as a practical solution to snow glare - the sun sits much lower in the sky in asia and when the world was coated in snow it would have been blinding. now the ice age has passed the epicural fold remains as a visible sign of their evolution. european people have less melonin, the pigment, in their skin, it is believed that because humans make vitamin d in their bodies from a chemical reaction with sunlight it was necessary for less melonin in the skin to counter iodine deficiency, indeed i understand that people with very dark brown skin who live and work in northern europe can suffer from iodine deficiency and have to take vitamin supplements as well as a special moisturiser for their skin. as mankind migrated northwards to colder climes those with paler skin would have mainained their health for longer and had a better chance of passing their genetic code onto the next generation. all of us display these visible signs of evolution but ultimately we are all brother and sister to some extent. the most frightening evelutionary theories are currently festering in china and the far-east - to these people the idea that they evolved from black people and white people is so abhorrent that they have created a false history which describes there race descending from homo-erectus, a totally different branch of the family tree so they see themselves as humans and all the rest of us quite literally as animals. it could almost be funny if it was'nt for the fact that this is the official line and is still taught in schools across china to this day.

Adam and eve incest?

Ancient roman emperors would traditionally marry brothers and sisters together - they believed this maintained the 'purity' of the blood. it is only now with the groundbreaking work of watson and crick and more recently dr venter and the human genome project the facts behind the building blocks of life are gradually being revealed and we can prove that it is infact the variety of genes between all of mankind that gives us our strength.

none of us are perfect genetic copies of our parents, of course all our genetic material, 'our building-blocks', come from our mother and father but also there are errors in the DNA - recently estimated at approximately 100 genetic mutations in every single one of us. and if that genetic mutation should be a beneficial one it is likely to survive and thus the process of evolution continues.

genetic mutations can also have a negative effect. traditioanly sealed off communites have a shallower gene pool to choose from and if genetic mutations that are negative are compounded through relatives breeding then serious problems can arise.

in england there is a disease called huntingdons disease wich also has sufferers worldwide but mostly prevalent amongst europeans that is thought to the result of inbreedinng. also there is a problem (or what we in the west perceive as a problem) amongst asians who often have a tradition of marrying cousins.

http://www.library.nhs.uk/geneticcon...x?resID=111425

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-cousins.html

remember that the mutations are just as capable of creating a beneficial characteristic as a negative one but it realy isnt worth the risk. its not really my place to say it but arranged marriages between cousins would appear to carry an increased risk of genetic disease which can devastate families.

i hope that the cultural divides and prejudices that hinder inter-racial/faith marriage dissolve as soon as possible because it is through unions of people who are genetically far apart, not close together, that we continue to grow and improve as a species.
Reply

bint_ali
09-07-2009, 08:55 PM
those babies are soo cute mashAllah!! Especially the twins and the baby with blue eyes and dark skin :smile:
Reply

cat eyes
09-07-2009, 09:26 PM
i remember when i was in mc donalds once ordering food and i seen this asain man, i think he was indian or something like this well ohhhh my gosh he had the most beautiful blue eyes like the sea :embarrass i was so amazed that i nearly tripped and fell with the tray of food in my hand loooooooooolz

that story that skye found is pretty amazing though well i guess it anwsers everything dosen it
Reply

Sampharo
09-08-2009, 09:27 AM
Originally Posted by abu_musab461
Sorry to divert the thread but

Is it true that Christianity it is believed that prophet Lut (as) got drunk and commited incest with his daughter then the next night his other wanted to commit incest so got him drunk.... ??
Hi Abu Musab,

No that is completely not true. The story of Lut with very little minor detail differences is essentially correct in christian faith as it is in Islamic and Israeli tradition. Lut was pious and left Sodom when told by the angels who were sent to him along with his family, and everyone escaped before dawn except for his wife.

Originally Posted by Arain.Faizan
then yes Qabeel get jealous , cause he did like woman he was given , and in anger he did murder of Habeel (Quran defines this in Surah Al-Maida (Surah # 05) then ALLAH sent down the crow who showed him how to bury a deadbody
Well you mentioned the correct verses, but as they say the reason (or maybe the final straw let's say) that made Qabeel kill his brother was that he felt angry God accepted Habeel's sacrifice and not his.

Originally Posted by Woodrow
Genetics while very complex is essentially very simple.
That's true, but as far as the genetic discussion here that is going, shouldn't we consider that genetics behaved completely differently back then? I mean Adam lived for 960 years, and Noah lived for 950 years, and look at us now! Then again they used to be much taller than we were as per all the hadith evidence that they used to be 40 armlengths. On top of that we don't know what the genetic code contained and what God would have provided to prevent the close relative-unions of the next few generations from producing defects.

On top of all that, like glo said, oh absolutely yes there is God making his miracles with the entire few generations considering that Adam was created directly from clay and Hawwa was created out of his body, then obviously she was created with a ready made different genetic code.

God knows best of course and I don't think conjecture can lead to too many answers here. But yes if someone wants to argue evolution from monkeys, please tell me about the part where all humans of different races have the same size while evolving from different apes, apparently at the same time from different parts of the World! :shade:
Reply

AlexJ90
09-08-2009, 01:09 PM
interesting thread man... skye ..mashallah..excellent reply b.
Reply

Woodrow
09-08-2009, 02:12 PM
Originally Posted by Sampharo
Hi Abu Musab,

No that is completely not true. The story of Lut with very little minor detail differences is essentially correct in christian faith as it is in Islamic and Israeli tradition. Lut was pious and left Sodom when told by the angels who were sent to him along with his family, and everyone escaped before dawn except for his wife.
From the Bible Genesis 30-36

30 Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. 31 One day the older daughter said to the younger, "Our father is old, and there is no man around here to lie with us, as is the custom all over the earth. 32 Let's get our father to drink wine and then lie with him and preserve our family line through our father."

33 That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and lay with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.

34 The next day the older daughter said to the younger, "Last night I lay with my father. Let's get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and lie with him so we can preserve our family line through our father." 35 So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went and lay with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.

36 So both of Lot's daughters became pregnant by their father. 37 The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab [ah] ; he is the father of the Moabites of today. 38 The younger daughter also had a son, and she named him Ben-Ammi [ai] ; he is the father of the Ammonites of today.







Originally Posted by Sampharo
That's true, but as far as the genetic discussion here that is going, shouldn't we consider that genetics behaved completely differently back then? I mean Adam lived for 960 years, and Noah lived for 950 years, and look at us now! Then again they used to be much taller than we were as per all the hadith evidence that they used to be 40 armlengths. On top of that we don't know what the genetic code contained and what God would have provided to prevent the close relative-unions of the next few generations from producing defects.

On top of all that, like glo said, oh absolutely yes there is God making his miracles with the entire few generations considering that Adam was created directly from clay and Hawwa was created out of his body, then obviously she was created with a ready made different genetic code.
No disagreement there

Originally Posted by Sampharo
God knows best of course and I don't think conjecture can lead to too many answers here. But yes if someone wants to argue evolution from monkeys, please tell me about the part where all humans of different races have the same size while evolving from different apes, apparently at the same time from different parts of the World! :shade:
You bring up an interesting point about the many types of apes. The evolutionists contend we are descended from the apes Gorillas, Orangutans, Chimpanzees, Bonobos etc. Monkeys are seperate and more squirrel like than ape-like.

One point the evolutionists often miss is that while the apes are similar to each other not even they can be proven to be related. Strongest evedence is you can not interbreed them. They are distinctly seperate species.

without elaboration it can be shown it is impossible to cross breed humans with any of the apes indicating they are not related.

Other creatures such as Horses and donkeys can be shown to have a common ancestor as they can be cross bred. But there are no other creatures on earth Humans can have cross bred off spring with. It is a genetic impossibility. True some perverts have attempted relations with animals, but no off spring were ever produced. Humans have no common relatives except humans. Our Chromosomes simply can not pair up with the chromosomes of any other creature.
Reply

Sampharo
09-08-2009, 04:52 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
From the Bible Genesis 30-36

30 Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. 31 One day the older daughter said to the younger, "Our father is old, and there is no man around here to lie with us, as is the custom all over the earth. 32 Let's get our father to drink wine and then lie with him and preserve our family line through our father."

33 That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and lay with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.

34 The next day the older daughter said to the younger, "Last night I lay with my father. Let's get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and lie with him so we can preserve our family line through our father." 35 So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went and lay with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.

36 So both of Lot's daughters became pregnant by their father. 37 The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab [ah] ; he is the father of the Moabites of today. 38 The younger daughter also had a son, and she named him Ben-Ammi [ai] ; he is the father of the Ammonites of today.
YIKES!! :embarrass I sat with a few christians and their version of the story was very close to ours, except that whole turning to salt because she looked back thing. They never mentioned anything about this!
Reply

shuraimfan4lyf
05-28-2010, 02:46 AM
:salamext:

The story about Prophet Lut(Alayhi as-Salam), It is from Bible right? I highly doubt that it is true..Can someone please verify?
Reply

جوري
05-28-2010, 03:06 AM
Originally Posted by shuraimfan4lyf
:salamext:

The story about Prophet Lut(Alayhi as-Salam), It is from Bible right? I highly doubt that it is true..Can someone please verify?

you think a prophet sent to people to warn them against lewd sins of the flesh would be committing lewd sins of the flesh with his daughters, fathering his own grandchildren and being drunk while at it?

christians have no reverence for Allah swt you expect them to have any semblance of respect to his prophets.. in suret al Baqarah it already questions them, if they are truly pious, then why do they go about killing God's messengers?

whether it is character assassination or literal killing..

:w:
Reply

Woodrow
05-28-2010, 03:08 AM
Originally Posted by Sampharo
YIKES!! :embarrass I sat with a few christians and their version of the story was very close to ours, except that whole turning to salt because she looked back thing. They never mentioned anything about this!
Their FULL version of what is in the bible differs very much from what we know to be true. I did quote from the KJV which is accepted by a very large percentage of Christians.
Reply

shuraimfan4lyf
05-28-2010, 03:44 AM
Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ
you think a prophet sent to people to warn them against lewd sins of the flesh would be committing lewd sins of the flesh with his daughters, fathering his own grandchildren and being drunk while at it?

christians have no reverence for Allah swt you expect them to have any semblance of respect to his prophets.. in suret al Baqarah it already questions them, if they are truly pious, then why do they go about killing God's messengers?

whether it is character assassination or literal killing..

:w:
Aathobillah..I know its not true, and I didnt believe in it, I just wanted to know if there are any sources about this false allegation against a Prophet of Allah..
Reply

marwen
05-28-2010, 03:48 AM
Back to prophet Adam(as) :
In Arabic, the word 'adam' (آدم) is the noun of our ancestor Prophet Adam,
but this word ('adam') is also an arabic adjective that means : "brown".
So, some liguistics say that Prophet Adam was named that way, because
he was probably brown because he is created from dust ('adeem-ul-ardh' : أديم الأرض) wich is brown.

That's just a liguistic explanation that I can't prove with hadeeth saheeh, but it's possible.
Reply

Woodrow
05-28-2010, 04:55 AM
Originally Posted by shuraimfan4lyf
Aathobillah..I know its not true, and I didnt believe in it, I just wanted to know if there are any sources about this false allegation against a Prophet of Allah..
:sl:

That false allegation and similar false allegations are found in the OT of the Bible. They are believed to be true by nearly all Christians.

The only source you will find for them is in the OT of the Bible.
Reply

AinEstonia
05-28-2010, 06:03 AM
First humans are believed to originate from Africa and migrated from there to rest of the planet.
A TEDtalksDirector video called "Nina Jablonski breaks the illusion of skin color," it's quite decent and might answer your question, here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOSPNVunyFQ
Reply

revert2007
05-28-2010, 06:42 AM
Originally Posted by AinEstonia
First humans are believed to originate from Africa and migrated from there to rest of the planet.
A TEDtalksDirector video called "Nina Jablonski breaks the illusion of skin color," it's quite decent and might answer your question, here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOSPNVunyFQ
First humans are Adam and Eve made of clay.Not from Africa but from Paradise :).
Reply

Snowflake
05-29-2010, 11:52 AM
Sis Lily - There wasn't an enough lapse of time for any sort of genetic diseases to be borne a new.. if it were a progressive, over several generations type incestuous relations then indeed there would have been a higher chance of genetic diseases, but that wasn't the case..
MashaAllah... exactly what crossed my mind. Not that it matters though when it comes to Allah power. He can and does create perfect beings from imperfect ones when He wants. What's really mind boggling is how atheists can't get their head round how different races came from one source yet they think 'chance' can create a perfect universe. :hmm:
Reply

جوري
05-29-2010, 02:44 PM
Originally Posted by Scents of Jannah
MashaAllah... exactly what crossed my mind. Not that it matters though when it comes to Allah power. He can and does create perfect beings from imperfect ones when He wants. What's really mind boggling is how atheists can't get their head round how different races came from one source yet they think 'chance' can create a perfect universe. :hmm:
:sl:

Jazaki Allah khyran..

br. Mc. post is best and he is a geneticist so this is his bread and butter:

There is actually little genetic variability within the human race and for that matter between humans and chimpanzees. We don’t know but Allah (swt) could have created both the genetic variation and caused the genetic drift to define the races through reproductive isolation as well as the mutations that cause genetic diseases as a means to discourage incest. There are a few genetic diseases even in very inbred breeds of dogs-- How many defects would show up in humans with this high degree of inbreeding?

The assumption is that Adam would have been genetically pure of defects, but not necessarily that he was homozygous for every gene. I also believe that Allah (swt) continues to direct changes that we perceive as natural processes and the atheistic evolutionist interprets as naturalistic evolution. Surah 29:19-20 Do they not see how Allah originates creation then repeats its process? Surely it is easy for Allah. Say to them: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah originates the creation, then creates the later creation.”
I downloaded a program to calculate inbreeding coefficients and determined that the dog below, has one of 0.3125 and she is a normal dog.
what atheists fail to realize is if they are starting from a single celled organism and say that single cell successfully proceeded by some fairy dust to become a fully sentient complex being of 'two sexes' they are still facing the same odds, but merely setting themselves back for they'd need to account for how whatever they deem the origin or seed of life developed into what it is today.. we all know modern human beings weren't always in existence, and the whole 'long long long long time passed' doesn't really cut it for how things spring into life!

:w:
Reply

shuraimfan4lyf
05-29-2010, 03:40 PM
I personally believe that atheists are just in denial. They are just bunch of mindless creatures who create confusion among the mass in order to take away the 'god' belief in mass population. They are jealous towards Allah because he is the creator of everything. He is Allah, than Whom there is La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He) the All-Knower of the unseen and the seen (open). He is the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful. 59:22

He is Allah than Whom there is La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He) the King, the Holy, the One Free from all defects, the Giver of security, the Watcher over His creatures, the All-Mighty, the Compeller, the Supreme. Glory be to Allah! (High is He) above all that they associate as partners with Him. 59:23

He is Allah, the Creator, the Inventor of all things, the Bestower of forms. To Him belong the Best Names . All that is in the heavens and the earth glorify Him. And He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise. 59:24
Reply

Woodrow
05-29-2010, 04:00 PM
Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ
:sl:

Jazaki Allah khyran..

br. Mc. post is best and he is a geneticist so this is his bread and butter:



what atheists fail to realize is if they are starting from a single celled organism and say that single cell successfully proceeded by some fairy dust to become a fully sentient complex being of 'two sexes' they are still facing the same odds, but merely setting themselves back for they'd need to account for how whatever they deem the origin or seed of life developed into what it is today.. we all know modern human beings weren't always in existence, and the whole 'long long long long time passed' doesn't really cut it for how things spring into life!

:w:
One problem: I can not see how non-believers can overcome. Why is it man can not interbreed with any other species besides man and produce viable offspring. Every creature on earth can interbreed with other members of the same genus and produce off spring. ie look at the equine family: Horses, zebras, donkeys, quahogs, separate species from the same family and readily cross-breed producing hybrid species (ie Horse+Donkey=Mule) Show me one hybrid human, Sorry the critter does not exist. The concept of an ancient common ancestor for man and the non-Human hominids strikes me as being an impossibility. If it did happen there would be more than one species of human and there would be some thing like an apeman trying to move next door to me. But sorry none of the monkeys are human although I will admit some humans do act like monkeys.

I t is physically impossible for a human to cross breed with his alleged closest relatives Gorillas, chimpanzees, Orangutans, Bonobos. No matter how bad they try it is physically impossible because of anatomical differences.

Oddly, it is probably possible for humans to interbreed with Jinn, who are not even composed of Protoplasm. Now if a case of that can be proven, that would blow the brains out of a geneticist.
Reply

cat eyes
05-29-2010, 04:40 PM
Originally Posted by abu_musab461
Allah (swt) commanded the angels to take the soil/ clay from different part of the earth, and thus created man, from dark, browns, yellow etc shaded of dirt from the earth.

Mentioned in Ibn Kathir commented by Imam Anwar Awlaki
subhanAllah i think that just about explains the whole topic. why must we go to deep into matters which our little brains cannot grasp.

im sure Allah swt knew what he was doing before creating Adam and eve.
Reply

Trumble
05-29-2010, 08:15 PM
Originally Posted by shuraimfan4lyf
I personally believe that atheists are just in denial. They are just bunch of mindless creatures who create confusion among the mass in order to take away the 'god' belief in mass population. They are jealous towards Allah because he is the creator of everything.
It's very difficult to be 'jealous towards' something that, by definition, you do not believe exists. Nevertheless, as has already been pointed out it is quite possible to believe in God without taking the Adam and Eve creation myth literally, and a great many people do.
Reply

M.A.S.H.
05-30-2010, 02:31 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
One problem: I can not see how non-believers can overcome. Why is it man can not interbreed with any other species besides man and produce viable offspring. Every creature on earth can interbreed with other members of the same genus and produce off spring. ie look at the equine family: Horses, zebras, donkeys, quahogs, separate species from the same family and readily cross-breed producing hybrid species (ie Horse+Donkey=Mule) Show me one hybrid human, Sorry the critter does not exist. The concept of an ancient common ancestor for man and the non-Human hominids strikes me as being an impossibility. If it did happen there would be more than one species of human and there would be some thing like an apeman trying to move next door to me. But sorry none of the monkeys are human although I will admit some humans do act like monkeys.

I t is physically impossible for a human to cross breed with his alleged closest relatives Gorillas, chimpanzees, Orangutans, Bonobos. No matter how bad they try it is physically impossible because of anatomical differences.

Oddly, it is probably possible for humans to interbreed with Jinn, who are not even composed of Protoplasm. Now if a case of that can be proven, that would blow the brains out of a geneticist.
It is untrue that every species can interbreed with others, it may be true with equines and perhaps some more and even those do not produce viable offspring, mules are iffertile.
There simply are no animals genetically slose enough to the human animal to produce offspring. Besides that, no one has really tried doing it, excpet Soviets who failed and that was like 50 years ago, using crude methods incomparable to today's science. Perhaps it is possible but scientific ethics prevent such experiments from being perfomred in the first place. Scientists do assume homo sapiens was able to breed with neanderthals.
Reply

Woodrow
05-30-2010, 04:34 PM
Originally Posted by M.A.S.H.
It is untrue that every species can interbreed with others, it may be true with equines and perhaps some more and even those do not produce viable offspring, mules are iffertile.
There simply are no animals genetically slose enough to the human animal to produce offspring. Besides that, no one has really tried doing it, excpet Soviets who failed and that was like 50 years ago, using crude methods incomparable to today's science. Perhaps it is possible but scientific ethics prevent such experiments from being perfomred in the first place. Scientists do assume homo sapiens was able to breed with neanderthals.
It is untrue that every species can interbreed with others
i have yet to see any flora or fauna genus within which more than one species exists that interbreeding does not occur. Perhaps somebody can name one.

Scientists do assume homo sapiens was able to breed with neanderthals.
I assume the opposite. An assumption is an opinion based. I will grant the scientist have the right to express their opinions and I reserve equal right to express mine
Reply

M.A.S.H.
05-30-2010, 09:56 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
i have yet to see any flora or fauna genus within which more than one species exists that interbreeding does not occur. Perhaps somebody can name one.

I assume the opposite. An assumption is an opinion based. I will grant the scientist have the right to express their opinions and I reserve equal right to express mine
guess I was wrong, species in the same genus can interbreed, usually producing iffertile offspring, unless anattomical differences prevent copulation, though it should work in the lab. The problem with human interbreeding is that no other species from the homo genus exists so there is no one to mate with.
Reply

Woodrow
05-30-2010, 10:09 PM
Originally Posted by M.A.S.H.
guess I was wrong, species in the same genus can interbreed, usually producing iffertile offspring, unless anattomical differences prevent copulation, though it should work in the lab. The problem with human interbreeding is that no other species from the homo genus exists so there is no one to mate with.
Something you said I agree with 100% "no other species from the homo genus exists so there is no one to mate with"
Reply

Ramadhan
05-30-2010, 11:24 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Something you said I agree with 100% "no other species from the homo genus exists so there is no one to mate with"

yup.
Even when all these full-frontal differences that make human truly special and separate from animals exist and stare at them in the face , atheists will keep denying it, even if they have no evidence to disprove that humans are separate from animals.
Just like trinity for christians, without which christianity theology crumbles apart, human evolution and abiogenesis are for atheists without which they have to acknowledge that there is a Creator for the universe.
Reply

جوري
07-21-2010, 05:14 PM
I thought this was appropriate for this thread:

Genetic Mystery: Black Brits Birth White, Blue-Eyed Baby


Updated: 21 hours 57 minutes ago

Print Text Size
EmailMore



AOL News
LONDON (July 20) -- Britain's tabloid press has gone gaga over a baby girl with white skin, blue eyes and a mop of blond curls who was born to black parents.

The best-selling Daily Mail and The Sun newspapers have labeled the child's Caucasian complexion a mystery, saying genetics experts are "flummoxed" by the case. But is the birth of a white baby to a dark-skinned couple really as baffling as the papers claim?

Ben and Angela Ihegboro were certainly confused when nurses at Queen Mary Hospital in Sidcup, 10 miles southeast of London, last week presented them with their daughter Nmachi -- whose name means "beauty of God" in the Nigerian couple's homeland.

Father Ben told The Sun that when he first saw the porcelain-skinned infant he jokingly cried out, "What the flip? Is she mine?" But he never doubted whether he was Nmachi's real dad. "Of course she is mine. My wife is true to me," he said. "Even if she hadn't been, the baby wouldn't have looked like that!"

Albinism would have been the most obvious explanation for Nmachi's pale looks. But, according to a hospital spokesperson, the obstetrician who delivered Nmachi told the family that doctors suspected the newborn wasn't an albino because she didn't have the pink eyes and white hair traditionally associated with the condition.

That initial hunch has led many to ponder why Nmachi was born white. Some experts have suggested that Ben and Angela might both be carrying light-skin gene variants, passed down from long-dead white ancestors. When Nmachi was conceived, she would have inherited both sets of pale-skin genes, giving her a white complexion.

"We are all of us genetic mixtures to some extent, and occasionally you'll have a convergence of the pale versions of these genes in African-Americans and African-Caribbeans who have a mixed black and white ancestry," Bryan Sykes, professor of human genetics at the University of Oxford, told the BBC.

However, both Ben and Angela, who moved to the U.K. five years ago, deny having white ancestors.

"My mum is a black Nigerian, although she has a bit fairer skin than mine," said Ben, who has two other black children with Angela: son Chisom, 4, and daughter Dumebi, 2. "But we don't know of any white ancestry."

And while this sort of interracial mixing may have been common in long-established multiethnic communities like those found in the Caribbean, it's unlikely to have occurred in a historically black country like Nigeria.

Those factors have led Sykes to argue that the little girl's pale skin is caused by an unusual genetic mutation, which she could eventually pass on to her own children. But other experts believe there's a much simpler explanation: Nmachi is an albino, and the first doctor who said she wasn't had it wrong. The Queen Mary Hospital spokesperson says this is a possibility, noting that that doctor is an expert in obstetrics, not genetic disorders.

The confusion over Nmachi's condition is likely because many people believe all albinos exhibit similar symptoms.

Professor Ian Jackson, an expert in melanocytes -- cells that produce pigment -- at the British Medical Research Council's Human Genetics Unit, points out that there are four types of albinism, all of which allow different levels of coloring to develop in the skin, hair and eyes. "In type 2 cases, which it looks like this girl has, we see creamy skin and yellow or light brown hair, which sometimes darkens with age," he told AOL News.

Jackson adds that the parents' Nigerian ancestry makes albinism an even more likely culprit. "Albinism is more common in West Africa than the rest of the world," he said.

The condition also could have lain dormant for many years, explaining why the Ihegboros don't remember any pale-skinned ancestors. "It's a recessive trait -- which means that carriers don't show any signs of albinism -- so you can go many generations and not see any physical evidence of albinism in a family," Jackson explained. "It's only when two carriers have children together that you see it, when it will likely appear in a quarter of their children."

The Ihegboros, though, don't really care why their new daughter looks so different from their other children. "She's beautiful and I love her," mother Angela said. "Her color doesn't matter. She's a miracle baby."

http://www.aolnews.com/science/artic...-baby/19561047
Reply

Salahudeen
07-21-2010, 05:39 PM
Amazing subhanallah.
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-01-2013, 12:00 AM
  2. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-11-2011, 11:32 AM
  3. Replies: 10
    Last Post: 03-14-2006, 09:19 PM
HeartHijab.com | Hijab Sale | Pound Shop | International Institute of Entrepreneurship and Professional Development - IIEPD | Truly Halal Humour

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!