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dawud_mail
09-07-2009, 03:43 PM
Assalamu alaykum

I have been seeing video's on youtube taht claim christianity is fast expanding in africa and many are converting from islam. I wonder if anyone has any statistics or info on particular countries and what is being done. Are teh saudi government for example funding mosques and centres???

I wish to discuss this as it appears to be an issue. Its one of the frtons that islam needs to expand through dawah inshallah so I feel there is benefit analysing these claims.

Jazak Allahu Khair
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جوري
09-07-2009, 10:03 PM
No, they delude themselves..
They target poor people, and think their poverty denotes stupidity..
the 'stupid' people take their bribes and tell them what they want to hear and maintain their religion. I promise you, I know of at least three or four stories, one in the rustic part of Egypt, where this missionary was there every day with bags of wheat and rice etc, while preaching Jesus is your God, when he ran out of things to give, the group '3omdah' Mayor, got up and said 'wahidoo' lol
al7mdlillah..

Their efforts are wasted.. you should read suret al-anfal, about how they spend their money and how it will be a loss to them and they'll be overcome..

once you understand monotheism truly, you'll never go back to idolatry.. we are at war.. and they go at it with all their tricks, media, weapons, money..
but you can't tear from people's heart al houda once they have ihtado..

so don't worry..

and Allah swt knows best

:w:
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Woodrow
09-07-2009, 10:50 PM
Visit any African Village a few years after the Christian Missionaries have left believing they had converted the people. You will then understand why Christian churches have been sending Missionaries into Africa for many years and Africa is yet to become significantly Christian.

Islam is the only non-African Religion to have made significant gains in winning the people away from the native paganism and polytheism that has been the way of the traditional tribes for many millennium.
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cat eyes
09-07-2009, 11:09 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if it were true. the west has been supporting africa for i don't know how long now. they give them so much especially during christmas. the muslims goverments don't care. they are taking care of themselves. i have never heard of them giving charity or doing dawah here in these countries such as africa but you will find plenty of white european aid workers
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Muhaba
09-07-2009, 11:27 PM
Why are Muslims not doing anything to help the poor, malnourished, starving ppl of Africa as well as other countries? They should be building schools and masajid, shelters and kitchens that give out free food. They should do this all over the world, not just in Muslim areas, giving dawah to the kaafirs and islamic lectures to the muslims to increase their iman. May Allah guide the rich muslims, especially governments of rich muslim countries.
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جوري
09-07-2009, 11:55 PM
Originally Posted by muhaba
Why are Muslims not doing anything to help the poor, malnourished, starving ppl of Africa as well as other countries? They should be building schools and masajid, shelters and kitchens that give out free food. They should do this all over the world, not just in Muslim areas, giving dawah to the kaafirs and islamic lectures to the muslims to increase their iman. May Allah guide the rich muslims, especially governments of rich muslim countries.

They do sis..

Islam Attracting Many Survivors of Rwanda Genocide

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2002Sep22.html

I chose the washington post as they usually never have anything positive to say about Muslims.. but you should see how the Christians were ratting each other out and as usual the Muslims are the refuge of the struggling..

I wouldn't believe all the propaganda.. it is all smoke and mirrors...
when every method fails they use the herd mentality approach!

61:8 Their intention is to extinguish Allah's Light (by blowing) with their mouths: But Allah will complete (the revelation of) His Light, even though the Unbelievers may detest (it).


:w:
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Woodrow
09-07-2009, 11:56 PM
Originally Posted by cat eyes
It wouldn't surprise me if it were true. the west has been supporting africa for i don't know how long now. they give them so much especially during christmas. the muslims goverments don't care. they are taking care of themselves. i have never heard of them giving charity or doing dawah here in these countries such as africa but you will find plenty of white european aid workers
:sl:

Having travelled in Africa quite a bit, I was surprised to learn of how much Charity Muslims from around the world do give in Africa. Much of it is on a personal level but there are some organized charities taking part.

Check out these sites:

http://www.islamic-relief.com/wherew...t.aspx?depID=4

http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/ebrah...sitive-changes

Sadly terrorist attacks attributed to Muslims has hurt the distribution of Islamic help by Muslims. Many Charities that sent billions of dollars into Africa have now had their hands tied and are helpless to give aide. The Alleged Muslim Terrorists have greatly hurt Muslims, and the greatest hurt has been to those most in need.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m.../ai_n25112739/
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Rasema
09-08-2009, 12:56 AM
:sl:
Muslim areas just toss their dawah away. In my town in Bosnia that's what we use to do.

It's nice of them to help but all their doing is causing mischief on Earth through falsehood.
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dawud_mail
09-08-2009, 03:28 PM
Thankyou for the article relating to rawanda, tahtw as great and brought a big smaile to my face, jazak allahu khair.

I am a 22 year old revert from england (alhamdulillah) and a salaafi so dont believe in criticisms of the rulers so please leave out the politics (and also no anti salafi debates as this si not the time or place) but Im very intrigued to explore the situation of Islam in africa in depth with you brothers and sisters to see what research we can find. I was certainly very happy to see the situation in rawanda and it shows that these people after seeing the ills of jahilyah know that Islam is the light that extinguishes the darkness of ignoarance and may Allah bless them and keep them firm and in the highest state of iman. Amiin.

But I feel we should look on youtibe inshallah and look into these claims to see where they are claiming they are getting success specifically and do more research. As someone rightly pointed out, we are fighting a war or jihad against falsehood and its good to know our enemy. Not to despair, because we must nevere despair and trust that Allah will bring victory to al islam but because knowing the enemy (in this case callers to apostacy) is a useful took in conducting our (spiritual) jihad against them. Our weapons of choice are ilm and dawah and once we know the problem area's, we will be in more of a position to contain the issues and support any dawah and charity in teh area etc so I think its a worth while excercise. I dont think egypt was the problem, I think its the area's further south where the area's have less of a muslim majority, maybe somewhere like nigeria but inshallah we should look to see the demographic changes etc. I heard a statistic that a century ago there were only 1million christians in africa (and now about 50million). I aggree they are using poverty and have some soup and a bible as thyeir means of conversion but this doesn't change anything and we must still look into this. Ive also seen youtibe videos of kids in afghanistan and iraq swaying back and forth saying allejuleia after being brainwashed by christian missionaries but I want to focu mainly on africa as this one the main source of growth for christianity. Jazak Allahu Khair brothers and sisters. Assalamu alaykum
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Woodrow
09-08-2009, 05:21 PM
Originally Posted by dawud_mail
Thankyou for the article relating to rawanda, tahtw as great and brought a big smaile to my face, jazak allahu khair.

I am a 22 year old revert from england (alhamdulillah) and a salaafi so dont believe in criticisms of the rulers so please leave out the politics (and also no anti salafi debates as this si not the time or place) but Im very intrigued to explore the situation of Islam in africa in depth with you brothers and sisters to see what research we can find. I was certainly very happy to see the situation in rawanda and it shows that these people after seeing the ills of jahilyah know that Islam is the light that extinguishes the darkness of ignoarance and may Allah bless them and keep them firm and in the highest state of iman. Amiin.

But I feel we should look on youtibe inshallah and look into these claims to see where they are claiming they are getting success specifically and do more research. As someone rightly pointed out, we are fighting a war or jihad against falsehood and its good to know our enemy. Not to despair, because we must nevere despair and trust that Allah will bring victory to al islam but because knowing the enemy (in this case callers to apostacy) is a useful took in conducting our (spiritual) jihad against them. Our weapons of choice are ilm and dawah and once we know the problem area's, we will be in more of a position to contain the issues and support any dawah and charity in teh area etc so I think its a worth while excercise. I dont think egypt was the problem, I think its the area's further south where the area's have less of a muslim majority, maybe somewhere like nigeria but inshallah we should look to see the demographic changes etc. I heard a statistic that a century ago there were only 1million christians in africa (and now about 50million). I aggree they are using poverty and have some soup and a bible as thyeir means of conversion but this doesn't change anything and we must still look into this. Ive also seen youtibe videos of kids in afghanistan and iraq swaying back and forth saying allejuleia after being brainwashed by christian missionaries but I want to focu mainly on africa as this one the main source of growth for christianity. Jazak Allahu Khair brothers and sisters. Assalamu alaykum
Africa has long resisted Christianity it first began trying to convert Africa in the First Ceuntury AD and at one point much of Africa was Christian, but later accepted Islam in North and Western Africa.

While Chrisianity may have recovered some lost converts in the past 100 years I believe that percentage wise over the past 1500 years they have had a constant decline.

Yes as Muslims we have made errors in Africa and have all too often over looked our African Brothers and Sisters. We do need to concentrate more on Africa, especially in efforts to alleviate poverty and disease. These are the things that make Africans easy prey for Evangelicals.
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Santoku
09-09-2009, 10:25 AM
I read a book by Michaela Denis (a wildlife film maker) once many years ago and she spoke of some of the bearers who carried their equipment, they converted to and from Christianity and Islam according to who was asking.
Muslim bearers had a better reputation than Christians so when they went for the job they were muslims. When Ramadan came round or palm wine was on offer they became christian. When a jewish friend of theirs visited one or two even claimed to be jews, in case they could get anything from him.

I would say this could be the same thing - say what the interviewer wants to hear and hold out the soup bowl.
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dawud_mail
09-09-2009, 11:22 AM
I aggree that on an individual level people may have disonest reasons for taking up christianity but this inolves quite alot of conjecture and personal experience. I was more hoping to look at whole countries to see if they are making inroads in any muslim communities in africa? If anyone has any statistical values for any countries to show increases in the percentage that are christian or even decreases to show these claims are nothing but a fallicy then this is what I am hoping for inshallah. Maybe I need to find some christians to find out where exactly they are claiming they are making this supposed progress to. Aggreed we need to do more but we should send our saddiqua and zakat to teh problem area's inshallah in order to aid teh muslims there in order to provide community support, food and dawah material, masajid etc etc.

I think research is needed before any startegies can be formulated but I haven't seen any research by any organisationts and its a rumour that is most definitely circulating that the christians are making huge inroads with handing out soup bowls and bibles
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rpwelton
09-09-2009, 01:32 PM
What Africa really needs is business and industry development to really get people out of poverty. Aid is good, but it's a temporary solution. As the saying goes: "give a man a meal and he'll eat for the night, but teach him how to build a fire and he'll eat for a lifetime".
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Woodrow
09-09-2009, 05:16 PM
Originally Posted by dawud_mail
I aggree that on an individual level people may have disonest reasons for taking up christianity but this inolves quite alot of conjecture and personal experience. I was more hoping to look at whole countries to see if they are making inroads in any muslim communities in africa? If anyone has any statistical values for any countries to show increases in the percentage that are christian or even decreases to show these claims are nothing but a fallicy then this is what I am hoping for inshallah. Maybe I need to find some christians to find out where exactly they are claiming they are making this supposed progress to. Aggreed we need to do more but we should send our saddiqua and zakat to teh problem area's inshallah in order to aid teh muslims there in order to provide community support, food and dawah material, masajid etc etc.

I think research is needed before any startegies can be formulated but I haven't seen any research by any organisationts and its a rumour that is most definitely circulating that the christians are making huge inroads with handing out soup bowls and bibles
I believe you will find that many if not most of the Evangelical Missionaris in Africa are from Fundamentalist Denominations. It is difficult to understand what they would count as a convert.Many of them would consider
Christian Africans attending their revivals as being converts.

Afica has for many years been consistently 40% Muslim, 40% Christian and 20% Tribal religions with nearly all of the Christians being south of the Sahara,

Here is an interesting link to a wiki article that depicts the Christian Missionaries in Africa. I find it interesting that except for in Egypt there does not seem to be any missionaries in the African Islamic Countries they seem to be mostly in the predominantly Christian Countries. I also noticed it seems that most of the Missionaries are Mormons. Most main stream Christians do not consider them to be Christians. They like JW's normally target mainstream Christians to convert to their concept of Christianity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...ries_in_Africa

Me thinks perhaps some of these missionaries are sort of exaggerating the truth regarding the numbers of converts.

But, that should not be any excuse for us not to make Da'wah in the African Nations.
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