I am in love with a Brother

[Sunshine71]

I am seeking advice. I have known "I" for nearly a year, and I am in love with him. He is Pakistani by birth and has been in US for nearly 10 years, and I am a white, Christian American woman. We have 'dated' in the Western style of dating for nearly a year. When I first met him, his mother was staying with him and she was aware of me but we did not meet. She left in January to go back to Pakistan, and she has returned to the US in July, and is living with him. Again in January, she will go back to Pakistan. I know in the Pakistani culture, and in Islam, dating is not permitted, however, he choose to pursue something with me. I was not very aware of Islam prior to him, but have learned a great deal since then, although I am still very much naive.

In addition, I am older than him by 5 years, he is 33 years old and I am 38 years old. I met his mom recently (his father has passed away), and have met his sister several times. The sister did like me and after the initial meeting, we never had a hard time getting along. The mom is a different story. She does not approve because of my age, which then leads her to make offensive remarks about myself, because I am 38 years old and never married, and since I am Western, I must have had sexual relations with many men (yes, I am single, never married, and yes, I have had sexual relations with men, not 'many') and I know this is haram in Islam, as well as Christianity. In addition, due to my age, she is concerned we will never have children. I know my age is an issue, however, I had several tests last year and my fertility was fine, and if there is an issue, we could always use medical advances to help (I'm not sure if infertility treatment is haram or not, but from what I've read, it is not).

He has been fairly positive about us and the way that things were going, until his mom came here and starting making comments about myself. In addition, some members of the community have found out about myself and have been giving him a hard time for 'dating' a white woman.

I would not say we are perfect with each other, we have our disagreements, but on the whole it is a good match, we are very similar, have similar interests, similar values, outlook on life, and both want a family, and a peaceful, happy life.

His two biggest concerns are disrespecting his mom because she wants him to marry a Pakistani Muslim woman, and being alienated from the community. I have told him that I am willing to learn Urdu, to learn about the culture, and learn the religion, and that the children will be raised Muslim and will also learn Urdu.

If anyone can give advice, I would greatly appreciate it. I love this Brother and would like to marry him one day.

[cat eyes]

the mother is very cultural and not so religious. She'd probably have him married off 2 some pak girl the same as her if she had her ways!. There is no age restrictions in islam my dear and i would not take any pass on the mother if she got to you. If you wish you can do islamic marriage with him and revert to islam afterwards to protect you two from doing further haram(illegal) things such as dating as you know, its not encouraged in islam for two people 2 be alone 2gether before marriage or what you could do is learn about islam first and revert before marriage however, you two will have to keep your distance from eacthother till after marriage if you really want to get the full blessings from Allah almighty and you want to follow things the right...i suggest you do this. And again there is not age restrictions on a woman nor man for marriage. This is some ignorant rule which is in their culture and not religion so i hope i cleared that up! I wish you all the best! And i sincerely hope Allah will guide you to this beautiful religion that is islam. I wish you all the best.

[Humbler_359]

I am seeking advice. I have known "I" for nearly a year, and I am in love with him. He is Pakistani by birth and has been in US for nearly 10 years, and I am a white, Christian American woman. We have 'dated' in the Western style of dating for nearly a year. When I first met him, his mother was staying with him and she was aware of me but we did not meet. She left in January to go back to Pakistan, and she has returned to the US in July, and is living with him. Again in January, she will go back to Pakistan. I know in the Pakistani culture, and in Islam, dating is not permitted, however, he choose to pursue something with me. I was not very aware of Islam prior to him, but have learned a great deal since then, although I am still very much naive.

In addition, I am older than him by 5 years, he is 33 years old and I am 38 years old. I met his mom recently (his father has passed away), and have met his sister several times. The sister did like me and after the initial meeting, we never had a hard time getting along. The mom is a different story. She does not approve because of my age, which then leads her to make offensive remarks about myself, because I am 38 years old and never married, and since I am Western, I must have had sexual relations with many men (yes, I am single, never married, and yes, I have had sexual relations with men, not 'many') and I know this is haram in Islam, as well as Christianity. In addition, due to my age, she is concerned we will never have children. I know my age is an issue, however, I had several tests last year and my fertility was fine, and if there is an issue, we could always use medical advances to help (I'm not sure if infertility treatment is haram or not, but from what I've read, it is not).

He has been fairly positive about us and the way that things were going, until his mom came here and starting making comments about myself. In addition, some members of the community have found out about myself and have been giving him a hard time for 'dating' a white woman.

I would not say we are perfect with each other, we have our disagreements, but on the whole it is a good match, we are very similar, have similar interests, similar values, outlook on life, and both want a family, and a peaceful, happy life.

His two biggest concerns are disrespecting his mom because she wants him to marry a Pakistani Muslim woman, and being alienated from the community. I have told him that I am willing to learn Urdu, to learn about the culture, and learn the religion, and that the children will be raised Muslim and will also learn Urdu.

If anyone can give advice, I would greatly appreciate it. I love this Brother and would like to marry him one day.

:sl: sister Sunshine71,

Please don't make scared, I am speaking honesty if you like. First of all, you are welcome to this Islamicboard forum as I am sure you will learn more here.

As a Pakistani myself who married a white American woman becoming Muslim (from baptist christian) in a three and half years short, your situation is similar to my situation I am aware. I am telling you, it is not easy for a white American woman sacrificing everything for a Pakistani Muslim man. There will be huge disagreement later as mother/sisters will not happy, you will feel left out.

My ex-spouse said same thing as you said. I realized that it is because she has no other option, just go ahead to marry me for wrong reason. Everyone want a happy and peaceful life but just in case it is not. I chose unfortunately married her. Basically, I want to help her a better life and happy, I explained different between Christian vs Islam, she learned alot very well and agreed herself to become Muslim in her decision. I was very happy and joy. Regarding the life of Islam, I trained her very well in how to pray, Qur'an English, fasting, halal, Islamic way. She complained because she was only white person in whole Muslim family + culture + Mosque. Not much white Muslim friends in a big country America, however, alot of white reverts sisters in UK.

But later on, two years, she felt like to give up Pakistani strong-influence culture, religion, language, and peaceful in order to go back where she belonged in old freedom with no patient. We were not in same page and same boat anymore. Her non-christian parents (never goes to Church or read Bible) pressured her (against Islam) and my family including father, mother didn't want white woman (with 'many/fews guys history' disgusting) at all due to different mentality, behaviors and many misunderstanding. It is pretty tough.

So she decided to choose leave me for no good reason at all. I said, 'So Be it, let you enjoy old freedom life hypocrisy in christian '.

"I" is Imran? As you see my description, I hope you are thinking about it. I would said myself, it is not worthy and wasting time. Don't take my advice, up to you. imsad

I love Islam for teaching me very patient and supportive, not force. I thank our creator Allah (Subhana Wa Taa'la) everyday.......

[Muhaba]

I agree with brother Humbler. Marriage with a pakistani guy most likely will not work if the mother is not happy with it. Even marriages between pakistanis don't work when one of the guy's parents is against it. Their culture is just totally different. There are pakistani guys who married someone they liked against the wishes of their parents and then felt guilty about doing something against their parents' wishes which caused difficulties in marriage, arguments, wife-beating, separation, even divorce.

Another thing you need to be aware of is that lots of ppl just have relationships with a western woman simply to pass time, with absolutely no intention of marriage (not saying that your bf is of that kind!). Some even take money from the western woman, giving her hope that they will marry her and in the end go on to marry a pakistani girl as per their family's wishes.

So beware. If you love this man and want to give marriage a try, then go ahead, but it would be best to tell him that you want to marry him and not have a relationship outside marriage. Give him a time limit. If he agrees, then go ahead with the marriage. If not, then find someone else who wants to get married from the beginning.

Also, know that the above sort of behavior is totally unislamic. Not only is dating haraam but also deceiving a woman, giving her the hope of marriage, using her, taking money from her and then dumping her is all unislamic. If a man wants to marry a woman, he should do it in the proper way. Dating a woman, giving her the hope that he will marry her and then dumping her with the reason that his parents were against it (as is usually done) is all unislamic.

There are lots of Muslim men who have married western women in the proper way. Most (that I know of) are nationals of United Arab Emirates. They married the women, didn't make them work, didn't take money from them, didn't use them for passports, etc but instead gave them very happy lives. So if you like, you can try to marry someone from UAE.

Sorry to be telling you this. However don't be discouraged by this information. Do learn about Islam. May Allah guide you to Islam and give you a good life!

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[Humbler_359]

:sl:,

I remembered this TV show- 'Belong or Bust' one month ago. Very impressive.

Linda and Ali: Ali: Two Worlds within Four Walls
(Linda is American-born and Ali is Qatari husband with blessing childrens in happiness 20-year marriage) Qatar is closed to United Arab Emirates (UAE). :D
I couldn't find free youtube to watch it........


My parents had no problem with marrying Middle Eastern or anyone because they are Muslim-born and easy to be compatible with life partner.

"also deceiving a woman, giving her the hope of marriage, using her, taking money from her and then dumping her is all unislamic." Using money or gain passport but honesty I didn't do that. Some do unfortunately, you are right. :hmm:

[IslamicRevival]

Lighten up sunshine :)

Patience is the key to success

[Sampharo]

I am married to a white caucasian who converted. She's one year older, and had a son from a previous marriage.

We couldn't be happier. However, my mother did not have an issue with her to start with, but then I am independent and living abroad. My brother and whole extended family welcomed her with open arms, and even though she didn't learn Arabic yet they sort stuff out and communicate with her. Her son is like mine now and would have carried my name except it is not permitted in Islam, and we were blessed with another baby daughter.

Thick and thin, we're happy and doing great. Wouldn't trade her for a 100 Egyptian princesses. My mum likes her more than she likes my brother's wife even. We're blessed al-hamdolillah.

Sunshine, the only factor is you and him and what you want to make of your life. If you dismiss his mother's remarks as nothing more than a funny peppery addition to your life, you should be ok. Don't ask him ever to cross his mother, that is the worst thing you can do whether he agrees with you and does it, lose contact with her and resent you for it when he regrets it later, or he disagrees and be angry at the suggestion from the beginning.

May you find guidance and happiness

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

... yes, I have had sexual relations with men, not 'many') .

(Lawful to you in marriage) are chaste women from the believers and chaste women from those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) before your time ...chater 5 , verse 5 from holy Quran.

Hello Sunshine , Welcome to the forum . A Muslim man may marry chaste Jewish and Christian woman . So , don't know about this case . He may ask any Imam . If u are repented for your mistakes in the past , then may be he can marry u .

There is no bar against your 5 years older than him . Prophet's first wife was much older than him and they were very happy and had kids.

Tell him to offer Istekhara salat and take a decision .

[AnonymousPoster]

Salaam/Peace

(Lawful to you in marriage) are chaste women from the believers and chaste women from those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) before your time ...chater 5 , verse 5 from holy Quran.

Hello Sunshine , Welcome to the forum . A Muslim man may marry chaste Jewish and Christian woman . So , don't know about this case . He may ask any Imam . If u are repented for your mistakes in the past , then may be he can marry u .

There is no bar against your 5 years older than him . Prophet's first wife was much older than him and they were very happy and had kids.

Tell him to offer Istekhara salat and take a decision .

Don't know if that rule (about marrying only chaste women from ppl of the book) is only for chaste men as Allah says in Quran:

The adulterer* marries not but an adulteress or a Mushrikah and the adulteress none marries her except an adulterer or a Muskrik. Such a thing is forbidden to the believers (of Islamic Monotheism). (24:3)

(* the word in the verse is "zani" which refers to unmarried person who has sex outside marriage & not married person.)

Not saying that the man in question is a zani (adulterer) but since they been dating for a year now, one would have to take into consideration their relationship as well. So if they only dated then the rule about marrying chaste women would in my opinion apply. However if they been sleepin together then i think the above rule (about adulterer marryin only adultress or mushrik) would apply. In that case, the man would not be allowed to marry a pious pakistani girl either according to this verse. (& it's important for parents of pious girls to acertain what sort of life the man lived and not just marry her off simply because he's livin in USA no matter what he did before that.)

However, if the man is chaste (hasn't had sexual relations outside marriage) then if the Christian / Jew woman becomes Muslim i believe it would be allowed for them to marry as all her previous sins are forgiven on converting.

Don't know the rule about a christian/jew woman who doesn't convert but repents for her past. i think it depends on whether she will continue her old ways if the man doesn't marry her or not, that is, whether she has truly repented and will not have relations outside marriage ever again even if she doesn't get married to the man.

some said the test would be that the woman refuses to have sexual relations outside marriage. like if they date, and a woman is willing to have relations after a few dates then she isn't chaste, but if the woman tells the man she won't have sex until after marriage, then she is chaste. However it's best to confirm with scholar.

[Humbler_359]

Assalam O Alaikym (Hello) Sunshine71,

Could you please reply these posts? Some new members came to post first topic, then they 'disappear' and never discuss in to solve matters. imsad

[ChOcCi]

Just a random question.. is it ok to get married to a person of another religion?

[Sunshine71]

Hi, I was asked to reply to some of the messages. Nothing has changed since I first posted, and in fact, since it is Ramadan, I have not been seeing him either. We have been talking on the phone and that is all. Next week, I will meet with him again, and maybe his mom as well. Sometimes, I think if I just walk away from him, then he can marry a Pakistani Muslim woman which his mom would prefer, but at the same time, I do not want to walk away from him, because I know that I am a good person and we could have a good life together, despite being a different religion and culture.

[DigitalStorm82]

I would ask you to tell your boyfriend that you're going to evalute the situation and religion in seclusion.

Don't talk to him or see him... learn the religion and see if it makes sense to you and if this is the life style you want to live... and most importantly, do you have full faith in this religion?

If so, start practicing the religion... and then go through the family, the halaal/islamic way to seek hand in marriage. If at that time the family/himself accepts then you proceed accordingly with blessings of everyone.

If not, you will not be heart broken, because you have already found inner peace with the Almighty God.... and will be content with yourself and trust Allah(God) to grant you even better life.

The key and most important thing you MUST realize is that you will not find peace with him but with God alone. So make your priority Allah... no one else.

[syriana]

Honestly... its very hard to change any woman's mentality born/raised overseas. But like most disagreement between the groom and his mom on his wife, it tends to fade away with time. Not easily though, it will come with plenty of obstacles you must overcome, and this will take a huge toll on you emotionally and mentally, especially that you aren't muslim. In the end you must ask yourself if this is worth it for you.

[cat eyes]

I agree with brother Humbler. Marriage with a pakistani guy most likely will not work if the mother is not happy with it. Even marriages between pakistanis don't work when one of the guy's parents is against it. Their culture is just totally different. There are pakistani guys who married someone they liked against the wishes of their parents and then felt guilty about doing something against their parents' wishes which caused difficulties in marriage, arguments, wife-beating, separation, even divorce.

Another thing you need to be aware of is that lots of ppl just have relationships with a western woman simply to pass time, with absolutely no intention of marriage (not saying that your bf is of that kind!). Some even take money from the western woman, giving her hope that they will marry her and in the end go on to marry a pakistani girl as per their family's wishes.

So beware. If you love this man and want to give marriage a try, then go ahead, but it would be best to tell him that you want to marry him and not have a relationship outside marriage. Give him a time limit. If he agrees, then go ahead with the marriage. If not, then find someone else who wants to get married from the beginning.

Also, know that the above sort of behavior is totally unislamic. Not only is dating haraam but also deceiving a woman, giving her the hope of marriage, using her, taking money from her and then dumping her is all unislamic. If a man wants to marry a woman, he should do it in the proper way. Dating a woman, giving her the hope that he will marry her and then dumping her with the reason that his parents were against it (as is usually done) is all unislamic.

There are lots of Muslim men who have married western women in the proper way. Most (that I know of) are nationals of United Arab Emirates. They married the women, didn't make them work, didn't take money from them, didn't use them for passports, etc but instead gave them very happy lives. So if you like, you can try to marry someone from UAE.

Sorry to be telling you this. However don't be discouraged by this information. Do learn about Islam. May Allah guide you to Islam and give you a good life!

true. but sister you cannot judge every pakistani man. might be this man has good intentions and inshallaah in time his mum will come to accept her. it dose happen. i know hundreds of girls at the mosque married to pakistani men and mashallaah they are coming fully covered they are obviously some good pakistani men who marry there wives and teach them islam afterwards.. but then again there is alot of pakistani men well advanced from other cities in pak where its more westernized then the west but you can't judge them all

[//-Asif-\\]

Assalaam Alaikum everyone.

First off I just have to say that I am really surprised at how many Muslim brothers, especially Pakistani Muslim Brothers have actually married to white American or UK converts. That's because I'm a Pakistani-American Muslim myself and have been married for the last nine months to my wife who is a white American convert. Quite a small world indeed!

Originally Posted by muhaba
I agree with brother Humbler. Marriage with a pakistani guy most likely will not work if the mother is not happy with it. Even marriages between pakistanis don't work when one of the guy's parents is against it. Their culture is just totally different. There are pakistani guys who married someone they liked against the wishes of their parents and then felt guilty about doing something against their parents' wishes which caused difficulties in marriage, arguments, wife-beating, separation, even divorce.

Being Pakistani I agree somewhat and disagree somewhat. I agree that it is true that a large amount of Pakistani Muslims tend to be heavily influenced by their families and parents and their view and practice of Islam tends to be ridden with culture-based elements that can go as far as being contradictory to the teachings of Islam. And also to them image is EVERYTHING. How you look in front of other people, friends and the like takes precedence over Allah. :unhappy: I truly make dua to Allah that he guide those people to educate themselves and follow Islam properly.

Now I've had a taste of both worlds being born in America and being Pakistani. Luckily for me my family tends to lean slightly more on the Orthodox Islam side than the culture side. I met my wife through the long distance means via internet, talking as friends and getting to know each other deeply and when I felt that I was developing feelings for her, I let her know that in Islam marriage is essentially, dating is a big no-no and it is best to marry a Muslim and that I wouldn't/couldn't marry her unless she became one. I gave her a Qur'an and helped her study Islam and in turn, found myself studying Islam a lot more than I had. At that time we were both really young, 17 and 19 respectively. Eventually, she would take the shahada with me by her side.

Long story short, I wanted to make things right and marry her and met some conflict with my parents due to her not being an ideal wife which they preferred to be Pakistani but that was not the main reason. The MAIN reason was because we were both young and they were afraid that it would eventually end in divorce due to religious conflicts and the like. I argued with them that it is character that is the most important and I believed that she possessed everything that was ideal for a Muslim wife and they soon were able to see the silliness and toss culture on the back burner and open up to her. We've only been married a year, it's still long distance and we're happy as ever and after we're both done with college we'll be able to move together. By the way we're coming close to our first anniversary! I'm 22 and she's 20.

In response to Sunshine71, I have to refer to the Quranic verse:And do not marry mushrik(non-believing) women until they believe, for a believing slave is better than a mushrik woman, even though you may find her more attractive. And do not marry (your girls) to mushrik men until they believe, for a believing slave is better than a mushrik, even though you may admire him. They (mushrikeen) invite you to the Fire, but Allah invites you to the Garden and to forgiveness by His grace....(2:221)

So In Islam, you can't marry a Non-Muslim until they become a Muslim. It's better to marry a slave than a non-Muslim is how severe Allah (SWT) puts it! It goes for both ways, males to females and females to males. That's cause it will just lead to problem after problem that will likely damage and ruin the marriage. Inter-faith marriages in my opinion are a big dangerzone. The only time inter-faith marriages work in my opinion is if both the husband and wife, or even one of them, and I'll put this bluntly, are half-assed when it comes to following their religion. They don't follow it properly, they don't really care much about practicing it to the full extent so they wouldn't care if their spouse wasn't following their religion. Instead,they would just have a relaxed view of "You do your thing and I'll do my thing and we'll live happily ever after" That in my view, is a big failure if one of them is a Muslim.

If a practicing Muslim married a non-Muslim, he'd have to face stresses and conflicts about various aspects of the religion, raising their children and even then the children will grow up confused or have a laid back view of Islam which He or She would have to answer for on Judgment Day. And even if the spouse was super accommodating by wanting the kids to be raised as Muslims and the like, what about the spouse him/herself? Your non-believing wife is condemned to Hell for not following Islam and worshiping erroneously while you're in Heaven? Why would a Muslim allow that to happen by being neglectful of the faith and character of their spouse?

So my advice is, don't marry him for the wrong reasons. Don't convert to Islam just so you can continue your romance with him guilt free though you are not practicing and do not really understand the facets of the religion and don't have a sincere faith in your heart of it. If things didn't work out and he dropped you like a bad habit, would you renounce your faith and abandon Islam? That would just show that you converted just to please a human being rather than please God. Islam shouldn't be a toy or an instrument for these type of things. Learn about Islam and like others have said, read the Qur'an and understand that this isn't just a religion simply, it's a way of life. And you will in return realize that a Islam is tampered with a lot by Muslims that customize the religion due to their ethnic cultures, which is what your beloved "I" is dealing with, is not right one bit. If you truly believe this religion is the truth, profess your faith and start living Islam. Heck, "I" needs a little bit of studying his own faith while you're at it. If you do all that and have that faith in your heart, people's opinions would not matter to you because Allah is the only one who you should be trying to please and trying not to disobey.

Hope that helped.

May Allah guide you.

Asif

[kwolney01]

Sunshine, I think you should really think about this situation your in.

I'm married to a Pakistani brother (brother Asif ^ actually hehe) and like he stated his family has taken it very well. I don't like to put one group of people in a box and say this is how they are, because it's not like that at all.

Yes, both of our families thought we maybe were to young to marry but we both wanted to live in an Islamic way and not have to be tempted to sin.

I converted before we got married and I was nervous about people thinking I converted just to marry him. It's not that way at all and I hate when people think that. Nevertheless, converting to Islam as been the best thing I've done and my family is happy for me.

I think it would be extremely hard for two parents of different faiths to raise children. They of course would want the children to be raised in the religion they practice. The children may be forced to side with one parent over the other and I really feel that it would confuse them. It would also be hard on the parents because I can only imagine the amount of conflicts that would occur. I don't want to say that this situation would never work, I'm just saying it would make things harder on every one involved.

I wish you the best and may Allah guide you and "I" as well.

[kwolney01]

Double post sorry!

[Humbler_359]

:sl:

Just curious out of topic, Asif and Kwonley01 were joined this forum in 2007, were you both meet first time here via internet long distances ?

[kwolney01]

Yes, we both joined in 2007...I showed him the site hehe.

We met in 2005 and married Alhamdulliah in 2008.

[//-Asif-\\]

We actually started talking via Yahoo messenger then it went from there, moving to phone calls. We didn't meet in person until a year and a half of talking with each other and getting to know one another.

[Salahudeen]

^that's nice 2 hear :) are you both old like late 20s early 30s?? that's when alot people revert. I'd like to marry a revert but they're all old :cry:

[Humbler_359]

:sl:

It must be interesting, May the Guidance and Blessing of Allah (Subhana Wa Taa'la) be with You, and Your Wife, Alhumdulilah.

[//-Asif-\\]

^that's nice 2 hear :) are you both old like late 20s early 30s?? that's when alot people revert. I'd like to marry a revert but they're all old :cry:

We're both in our early twenties (She's 20 I'm 22)

[nebula]

^ mashAllah

[syriana]

i love hearing about reverts and their stories. They tend to be just as good as our best muslims, and thats really attractive to any muslim looking for a sign. other.