are personal characteristics inherent?

[Son Of Wisdom]

:sl:

maybe this question needs a scholar to answer it. but leme share it here with you:
we all know that every human is born with a certain inherent character . I mean there are people who are by nature good doers. there are some who are by nature liars or cheaters or arrogant etc..I mean we cannot deny the fact that their is something uncontrollable in ones personality which is given by Allah and not gained or grown by humans.
there is a hadith of prophet PBUH about this issue. i only remember the meaning:" there comes a man to see the prophet. then when he came; prophet pbuh said to him that he has Two characteristics that Allah and his prophet loves. the man said , oh prophet of Allah ,are these two characteristics inherent in me or is it me who grow them. the prophet said: they are inherent in you by Allah".

So here is the dilemma:
why would Allah swt make a person inherently "a bad person" then after that Allah swt will judge him based on his bad characteristics that the human can't control.
i mean there are people who do good easily without much effort because they have a good inherent nature. while there are others who need to struggle and work hard to change their character and do good.
isn't this unfair ? why making the struggle easy for some and though for others? shouldn't Allah swt make us all equal in the testing then after that judge us based on our personal characteristics?

I know this is a Bad way of thinking about Allah swt ,but i can't find a satisfying answer to this question. i don't know if i explained well the issue. I have difficulty expressing the Idea that haunts my Mind recently..

[Snowflake]

I mean we cannot deny the fact that their is something uncontrollable in ones personality which is given by Allah and not gained or grown by humans.

:sl: Even if certain traits are inherited, who said they are uncontrollable?

why would Allah swt make a person inherently "a bad person" then after that Allah swt will judge him based on his bad characteristics that the human can't control.

Allah doesn't judge anyone over something they have no control over. That is why the insane are excused from prayer and other actions which they commit due to insanity. Furthermore, whether we have good traits or bad, both are trials for us, as even good traits can lead a person to Hell if they become arrogant and proud. Bad traits can save us from Hell if we control ourselves for the sake of Allah. At the end of the day, Allah has given us a choice which means He is fair and Just. He has given us tools. It's up to us how we use them.

[Son Of Wisdom]

:sl: Even if certain traits are inherited, who said they are uncontrollable?



Allah doesn't judge anyone over something they have no control over. That is why the insane are excused from prayer and other actions which they commit due to insanity. Furthermore, whether we have good traits or bad, both are trials for us, as even good traits can lead a person to Hell if they become arrogant and proud. Bad traits can save us from Hell if we control ourselves for the sake of Allah. At the end of the day, Allah has given us a choice which means He is fair and Just. He has given us tools. It's up to us how we use them.

Yes sister but listen for example:
there are some people who gets angry quicker than others .there are some people who are by nature calm and relaxed. Now Anger or excess of Anger is viewed by Islam as a bad behavior that should be avoided.Does this means this person who gets angry quickly and excessively is responsible for what's happening probably in the chemicals of his brain?
For the other calm and relaxed person , this behavior is viewed as Good from Islamic view. is it the person who educated himself to have this calm nature ? did he done any efforts to gain this Good behavior? I tend to believe this is a gift from Allah.and hope i'm not wrong.
I mean my Mind can't digest why there are inequality of the persons' characters. and i'm looking for an explanation whether character is something born with the human ,inherited from parents or only grown and educated by the person himself and his environment, or maybe all of this things together!
I mean the person characteristics are probably the key answer for whether this person will go to hell or paradise. So it's very important to know the mechanisms of how the personal characteristics are built and shaped. Is the will of Allah involved in this mechanism or is it the whole responsibility of the human?
Yes i know that we can change pesonal characteristics by working and training ourselves. that is No doubt and indeed a person who work on his character can definitely change from being bad to being good and pure.
But my question is why this person has to work harder than other persons who have a Good nature and who don't need to do lot of efforts to change their behavior because they are already Good?
does it mean the persons who do more efforts would get more rewards than others whom their spiritual journey has been easy and smooth? that's one probable logical answer.
I mean take the prophets and messengers of Allah : they all (peace be upon them all) have been born with highest degree of pureness and they were sain from all bad personal characteristics like arrogance and anger and so on..same thing there are some people who are very close to the pureness of the prophets of Allah.which make me believe those persons are being chosen by Allah swt and he decided that those will be his close slaves and he will protect them from all impurity of this worldly life.
Well, Yes this is the kingdom of Allah swt and his will swt is over every thing..but what worry me is those persons who have a mixture of good and bad nature and who risk to fail the test of struggling against their bad nature. Those will go to hell if they fail!. why would Allah choose some pure people to be his own and left others for their destiny.
I do admit it's a torturing question -probably philosophical one- but i couldn't find a satisfying answer of it..i read through the book of Imam Ghazaly Ihya ulum addin..there are some passages which speak about the ability of every person to train himself and purify himself from bad characteristics..but Immam ghazaly didn't digged deep into the Hikmah(wisdom) behind making people different and unequal in their characteristics. There must be some divine wisdom behind this But i really can't know it. It will probably takes faith and not ask for those questions that are tutoring the Minds of the believers.

[Snowflake]

assalamu alaykum,

I'll give you my own example. I have a major problem with anyone who calls Allah unjust and doubts His attributes. My heart turns away from them. I don't want to speak to them. I want nothing to do with them. You can call that my personal trait. But I struggle to overcome this trait because Allah likes those who are merciful to others. So despite how I feel I make the effort to explain how I could, that they are wrong in their thinking of Allah. And InshaAllah, He will reward me for struggling to overcome the trait that I fear may displease Him.

there are some people who gets angry quicker than others .there are some people who are by nature calm and relaxed. Now Anger or excess of Anger is viewed by Islam as a bad behavior that should be avoided.Does this means this person who gets angry quickly and excessively is responsible for what's happening probably in the chemicals of his brain?

How can a person be responsible for how their brain functions - unless they deliberately take mind-altering substances which they know will affect them? We aren't even held resposible for having bad thoughts until we actually act upon them.

But my question is why this person has to work harder than other persons who have a Good nature and who don't need to do lot of efforts to change their behavior because they are already Good?

How old are you? I'd like to think you're very young? Are you aware that hardships and trials come in many forms? Struggling against oneself is a great jihad. So the more a person is struggling the greater the reward. Every soul will be tested.

“Or did you think that you will enter Paradise without such (trials) that came to those who passed away before you? They were afflicted with severe poverty and ailments and were so shaken that even the Messenger and those who believed along with him said, ‘When will come the help of Allah?’ Yes! Certainly, the help of Allah is near!” [Surah Baqarah 2:214].


So if a person does have to work harder than others to be good, then that is their share of the test and their hardship. It does not mean people with good habits face less hardhips and tests. Only the nature of the test may vary but as I said before goodness is also a test as it's even more of a challenge for the shaytaan to misguide you. But Allah is Just to all of His creation so you shouldn't even think that He will do injustice to you.

“And whoever does good equal to the weight of an atom (or a small ant) will see it (on the Day of Resurrection to be rewarded) and whoever does mischief equal to the weight of an atom shall see it.” [Surah Zalzalah 99:7-8]

same thing there are some people who are very close to the pureness of the prophets of Allah.which make me believe those persons are being chosen by Allah swt and he decided that those will be his close slaves and he will protect them from all impurity of this worldly life.

Actually, if you look at the lives of the asahaba before they accepted Islam, you will find they commited many sins. They weren't kept pure because they would be the Prophet's companions one day. They attained their status by believing in Allah as the one God and by obeying His teachings and following the Prophet's sunnah. Each one of us can attain purity and closeness to Allah by the same means. Allah can purify all our past sins if He wills.

but what worry me is those persons who have a mixture of good and bad nature and who risk to fail the test of struggling against their bad nature. Those will go to hell if they fail!. why would Allah choose some pure people to be his own and left others for their destiny.

the Messenger of Allah said, “Verily, the greatness of the reward is with the greatness (or severity) of the trial. Verily if Allah loves a people He tries them (with trials).” [An authentic hadith collected by Tirmidhi]

If anyone fails, it's their own doing. And why do you assume Allah leaves some people and helps others? Allah is always there for His entire creation. It is us who distance ourselves from Him. It is not proof enough that He, The Exalted and Praiseworthy, descends to the lowest heaven in the third portion of the night to ask if there is anyone who needs from Him so that He may give?

See this beautiful Hadith Qudsi too..

Hadith Qudsi 15:
On the authority of Abu Harayrah (may Allah be pleased with him), who said that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: Allah the Almighty said:
I am as My servant thinks I am (1). I am with him when he makes mention of Me. If he makes mention of Me to himself, I make mention of him to Myself; and if he makes mention of Me in an assembly, I make mention of him in an assemble better than it. And if he draws near to Me an arm's length, I draw near to him a fathom's length. And if he comes to Me walking, I go to him at speed.


Instead of reading Imaam Ghazali, read Al-Quran and complete your obligations. If Allah wills He will give you open to you knowledge of many things you can't understand now. Make repentance and plead to Allah for forgiveness for associating things with Him that are not true. Na udhu billah :cry:

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[Son Of Wisdom]

Instead of reading Imaam Ghazali, read Al-Quran and complete your obligations. If Allah wills He will give you open to you knowledge of many things you can't understand now. Make repentance and plead to Allah for forgiveness for associating things with Him that are not true. Na udhu billah :cry:

Hmm ..was a bit surprised by your rude and harsh reply. you are accusing me of very horrible sins like questioning the attributes of God!
are you sure i'm questioning the attribute of allah or accusing allah swt to be unjust? is this what you understood from the topic?.
I regret having asked this question here. I knew i'll not be able to paraphrase it well and i knew that it's never wise asking questions like these to get answers from people who are not qualified to tackle subjects like these.

BTW, is reading Imaam Ghazali a Big Sin? it makes me feel that all your problem is with Imaam Ghazali !
It's me who asked the question and this Man has done nothing to you. He is a Great scholar .no need to humiliate him because i mentioned his name in my reply.

I do not want to participate anymore in this forum and hope the moderators delete completely all my account and all posts in this forum.
:sl:

[marwen]

:sl:
why would Allah swt make a person inherently "a bad person" then after that Allah swt will judge him based on his bad characteristics that the human can't control.
i mean there are people who do good easily without much effort because they have a good inherent nature. while there are others who need to struggle and work hard to change their character and do good.

a person with good character is not always a good person, and vice versa. For example you can be intelligent, but you use your intelligence in bad things. And you can for example be a stupid or a nervous person, but you manage your character to be a pious person.
So characteristics have nothing to do with work. You have to choose the right way whether you are patient, nervous, smart, or ordinary person.
Characteristics are kind of trials, like making some people rich and others poor : they both are responsible of their will and their intentions, and allah will reward everyone based on his work and will compensate those who had trials.
Your character will not force you to be a bad or good person, you have the complete choice.
w Allahu Aalam..

[Candle]

Interesting posts. I like to think this is why we shouldn't judge people. A particularly good natured person may never work at being good, and yet everyone thinks they are virtuous. A bad natured person may try very hard to be good, but everyone thinks they are not virtuous.

Who is better, the hardworking man with the rusty old factory or the lazy man with the nice new factory..

[Son Of Wisdom]

Interesting posts. I like to think this is why we shouldn't judge people. A particularly good natured person may never work at being good, and yet everyone thinks they are virtuous. A bad natured person may try very hard to be good, but everyone thinks they are not virtuous.

Who is better, the hardworking man with the rusty old factory or the lazy man with the nice new factory..

See? not as simple as some people might think?
Now the people in the forum will say that I've corrupted you ! he he !
I was asking questions because I'm ignorant and want to learn..But asking problematic questions these days might bring you Lots of troubles my brother..

[Candle]

Wisdom is a good kind of corruption. :D Better that we both ask questions in ignorance rather than have no interest at all!

[Alpha Dude]

Brother, I think you're actually making a mountain out of a molehill of doubt.

Even if we take for granted that some people are born with inherent 'bad' qualities, why not also ask about people that are born in bad environments or those with disabilities. Aren't they also at a disadvantage?

If a guy was born in a house where drinking, gambling, doing zina, doing weed, stealing and raping were all the norm and this behaviour was passed on to him, it goes without saying that he would have to struggle to be a good muslim a lot more than someone that wasn't born in such an environment.

What of the guy that was born blind? How on Earth is he supposed to be a good muslim when he can't even see. Unfair? :skeleton:

No, brother. Allah is All Just. It's one of his attributes. It's not just a word we use in vain. We wholeheartedly accept and submit to it. If we accept Allah exists, if we accept Muhammad Sallalahu Alaihe Wasalam was his messenger, if we accept the Qura'an is true, then we owe it to ourselves to first and foremost submit and accept that there must be something we do not know that is preventing us from understanding. It's illogical not to. Secondly, we ask Allah for refuge from the shaytan. He is real and will, along with his minions, misguide us. So it's important that you take refuge. Thirdly, ask Allah to guide you to a better understanding. Forthly, take practical measures and ask those that know (i.e. scholars) as commanded in the Qur'aan, upon coming across something that confuses.

Sorry for the tangent, but I felt it was important to remind you brother. :)

Coming back to the topic though, we are told:

1. Nobody is tested above what they can handle.

2. The more a person has to struggle to rectify his character and align himself to the standard set by Islam, the more he would be rewarded. <-- In fact, this one sentence ought to be enough to answer your question. Given that this world is a temporary test and the real objective is the hearafter, these struggling people are being rewarded more than those that weren't born that way. Would you now conclude that the people who aren't struggling are treated unfair, since they presumably get less reward in the hearafter?

Allah has said there would be seven people in the shade of his throne on the day of judgement. One being the man who didn't give in to the seduction of a woman when she called him to immoral acts. Stop and give deep thought to that.

Just how difficult is it to avoid seduction for a man? Not easy at all. Imagine being next to a pretty lady in bed, just about to satiate your lust. She's all ready and waiting for you. Would you find it easy to just suddenly jolt back and walk away from the scene?

Even Prophet Muhammad Salllahu Alaihe Wasalam has said words to the effect that women are the biggest fitna (test) for men. Most men would find it difficult to walk away. Hence the reward on the day of judgement.

Another thing we're told is that if a person can't recite Arabic to read the Qur'aan properly, he is rewarded doubly whenever he recites. This is all due to the struggle he has to undertake. I hope this highlights the point that is being made, that despite our circumstance and abilities, it is the amount we struggle that ultimately of importance and one that bears fruit.

Further to the above, generally, people aren't born 'all good' and 'all bad'. There are many shades of gray. Just because a person has one negative attribute, doesn't mean he is wholly bad. Likewise, if a person has one good attribute, it doesn't mean he is wholly good.

In fact, being (apparently) good can open the doors to pride and we all know how bad khibr is. A person with even half a mustard seed of pride wouldn't be admitted to heaven.

What one person finds difficult would be relatively easy to avoid for someone else. It's not all set in stone either. People can change as they grow.

Another thing that comes to mind is that when a person wholeheartedly repents and feels bad about sins that he has comitted, Allah forgives him and turns all his bad deeds into good ones. So if a guy is prone to comitting sin due to something inherent in him, but repents sincerely, he would be gaining many rewards. Now how is that unfair? :)

Btw: the blind person is guaranteed jannah because of the difficult test Allah placed upon him.

[Son Of Wisdom]

Brother, I think you're actually making a mountain out of a molehill of doubt.

Even if we take for granted that some people are born with inherent 'bad' qualities, why not also ask about people that are born in bad environments or those with disabilities. Aren't they also at a disadvantage?

If a guy was born in a house where drinking, gambling, doing zina, doing weed, stealing and raping were all the norm and this behaviour was passed on to him, it goes without saying that he would have to struggle to be a good muslim a lot more than someone that wasn't born in such an environment.

What of the guy that was born blind? How on Earth is he supposed to be a good muslim when he can't even see. Unfair? :skeleton:

No, brother. Allah is All Just. It's one of his attributes. It's not just a word we use in vain. We wholeheartedly accept and submit to it. If we accept Allah exists, if we accept Muhammad Sallalahu Alaihe Wasalam was his messenger, if we accept the Qura'an is true, then we owe it to ourselves to first and foremost submit and accept that there must be something we do not know that is preventing us from understanding. It's illogical not to. Secondly, we ask Allah for refuge from the shaytan. He is real and will, along with his minions, misguide us. So it's important that you take refuge. Thirdly, ask Allah to guide you to a better understanding. Forthly, take practical measures and ask those that know (i.e. scholars) as commanded in the Qur'aan, upon coming across something that confuses.

Sorry for the tangent, but I felt it was important to remind you brother. :)

Coming back to the topic though, we are told:

1. Nobody is tested above what they can handle.

2. The more a person has to struggle to rectify his character and align himself to the standard set by Islam, the more he would be rewarded. <-- In fact, this one sentence ought to be enough to answer your question. Given that this world is a temporary test and the real objective is the hearafter, these struggling people are being rewarded more than those that weren't born that way. Would you now conclude that the people who aren't struggling are treated unfair, since they presumably get less reward in the hearafter?

Allah has said there would be seven people in the shade of his throne on the day of judgement. One being the man who didn't give in to the seduction of a woman when she called him to immoral acts. Stop and give deep thought to that.

Just how difficult is it to avoid seduction for a man? Not easy at all. Imagine being next to a pretty lady in bed, just about to satiate your lust. She's all ready and waiting for you. Would you find it easy to just suddenly jolt back and walk away from the scene?

Even Prophet Muhammad Salllahu Alaihe Wasalam has said words to the effect that women are the biggest fitna (test) for men. Most men would find it difficult to walk away. Hence the reward on the day of judgement.

Another thing we're told is that if a person can't recite Arabic to read the Qur'aan properly, he is rewarded doubly whenever he recites. This is all due to the struggle he has to undertake. I hope this highlights the point that is being made, that despite our circumstance and abilities, it is the amount we struggle that ultimately of importance and one that bears fruit.

Further to the above, generally, people aren't born 'all good' and 'all bad'. There are many shades of gray. Just because a person has one negative attribute, doesn't mean he is wholly bad. Likewise, if a person has one good attribute, it doesn't mean he is wholly good.

In fact, being (apparently) good can open the doors to pride and we all know how bad khibr is. A person with even half a mustard seed of pride wouldn't be admitted to heaven.

What one person finds difficult would be relatively easy to avoid for someone else. It's not all set in stone either. People can change as they grow.

Another thing that comes to mind is that when a person wholeheartedly repents and feels bad about sins that he has comitted, Allah forgives him and turns all his bad deeds into good ones. So if a guy is prone to comitting sin due to something inherent in him, but repents sincerely, he would be gaining many rewards. Now how is that unfair? :)

Btw: the blind person is guaranteed jannah because of the difficult test Allah placed upon him.

I said I didn't meant to say Allah swt is unfair ! if i wrote this then it is because i'm an idiot and didn't reflect much before writing the words.
I also said i found it difficult to express the Idea . I couldn't passe the message to readers in the right way and so people got impression I 'm questioning Allah's attributes etc..
I also asked moderators to delete the topic but they didn't do so..
Someone intentionally wanted this topic to bubble up while it was buried for a long time! I wonder why this person wanted to bring this dead topic to life ? ^o)

[Alpha Dude]

Relax bro. I wasn't having a go at you. Whatever I said was out of my humble attempt to address your concerns in the most comprehensive manner. Hence the explanations of Allah's attributes, not that you're specifically questionning them. :)

Anyway, it's no big deal that the thread was brought back. I'm sorry you felt the need to leave after having created this thread.

However, I hope my explanation makes sense InshaAllah?

[marwen]

Someone intentionally wanted this topic to bubble up while it was buried for a long time! I wonder why this person wanted to bring this dead topic to life ? ^o)

What type of question is that ?
I found this thread while I was browsing the Forum, and I thought someone needs help. I'm sorry I didn't notice that you no longer want to talk about the topic.
But anyway, I hope the posts of brothers an sisters above are still helpful.

[anonymous]

What type of question is that ?
I found this thread while I was browsing the Forum, and I thought someone needs help. I'm sorry I didn't notice that you no longer want to talk about the topic.
But anyway, I hope the posts of brothers an sisters above are still helpful.

Forgive me brother i didn't meant to offend you.
Yes the posts of brothers/sisters are helpfull. it is very likely i'm wrong on this point (which again i repeat i couldn't explain it rightly and probably wrote phrases that i shouldn't written).
i apologize to anyone i might had offend in this topic .and Please forgive me All.

[Son Of Wisdom]

Forgive me brother i didn't meant to offend you.
Yes the posts of brothers/sisters are helpfull. it is very likely i'm wrong on this point (which again i repeat i couldn't explain it rightly and probably wrote phrases that i shouldn't written).
i apologize to anyone i might had offend in this topic .and Please forgive me All.

Sorry i mistakenly posted this above reply as anonymous. it is my reply above.
salam aleikum