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ChOcCi
09-16-2009, 02:59 AM
Where in the Quaran does it say that music is forbidden? And the prophet himself listened to music. Just because they didnt have guitars back then at that time and they only got to hear the daaf makes all other musical instruments haram? If so, then the daaf should be banned as well!

I am a strong believer in Islam but in my opinion, this "music is haram" motion is done by does mullahs who cant stand "noise" in their ears.

I mean, 70% of the entire world population listens to music, are you saying they are all sinning?

And if your going to come here and tell me that Music really is haram, then PLEASE, do yourself a favor, and DONT be a hypocrite. I will ONLY take this answer from a person who can PROMISE me that he / she never watched TV, never watched a movie, and NEVER listened to a song in his / her life because to be honest, even all the NON western channels have music in it (i.e the ads and the shows).

Fine, maybe music wont allow me to spend my time doing more productive things like reading the Quaran, but cant I listen to music while doing my homework or something?

I accepted all other things said in Islam with a smile, but this "music is haram" and "you can have sex with your slaves without marrying" thing are the only two things that I cant stand for. How can such a thing be even allowed?

I mean, doesnt this contradict everything Islam has taught us? I mean, if you have a wife away to shop, and in the meantime, if you go have sex with your slave without your wife's consent, wont something inside of you tell you that you have sinned? I have a theory that ANYTHING that "feels wrong" IS wrong.. Killing someone, beating something, swearing, masturbating, having sex without marriage, all these things, when your about to perform it, feels wrong to you so obviously, Allah swt has given us the gift of judgment to decide.

So HOW ON EARTH can sex with slaves be allowed?

And please, dont give me an answer like "We have limited knowledge so there must be a reason behind it" because this isnt why I asked.

I hope someone can help me.

Tahseen.
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ChOcCi
09-17-2009, 01:20 PM
hmm, I was kinda mad when I posted this so im sorry if I seem like an anti religion type of guy, but I believe that im not.. Its just the last matter I talked about really disturbs me as it gives me a low opinion of this part of Islam and while the music thing generally just upset me because more than billions of people worldwide listen to music.. are they ALL sinning?? Who's going to go to heaven then?

I mean, if guitars and such are banned, so should the daaf be banned. If the *f word* is considered a bad word, so should the *s word* be considered one too.
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ChOcCi
09-17-2009, 01:23 PM
*please excuse my triple post*

And well, it says that "music" is haram because it wastes our time and doesnt allow us to be more productive like reading the Quaran right? Then what about music with only vocals and daaf? Doesnt that ALSO "waste" our time? We should ban music all together then..

and even if you ACTUALLY believe that music is haram because of this reason, cant I even listen to it while im sitting in a plane having a 12 hours flight ahead of me with NOTHING all to do?
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Muslim Woman
09-17-2009, 01:25 PM
:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by ChOcCi
... if you have a wife away to shop, and in the meantime, if you go have sex with your slave
I guess , you are confusing maid servants with war slaves . Today's paid servants and war slaves -- they are not same .

About music , there is a thread already in the forum . May be , u should read all the answers there ; So that we don't have to post same answers again .
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ChOcCi
09-17-2009, 01:28 PM
Forget about now.. even if we were all living a thousand years back, wouldnt it feel wrong to get into bed with your "right hand possession" or "war slave" while your wife is away?

How can this be justified? It contradicts EVERYTHING I thought Islam tried to teach us.. You cant be a good man if you do such a thing. NEVER.
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ChOcCi
09-17-2009, 01:30 PM
I mean, you guys can reply saying that
"its your choice and if it feels wrong to you, then you dont have to do it"

But hey, shaking hands with girls and hugging girls DONT feel wrong to me, AT ALL, but its still now allowed so I dont do it.. if THIS is wrong, how can having sex with your slaves NOT be wrong in any shape or form?
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ChOcCi
09-17-2009, 01:32 PM
*hehe triple post again*

just thought id avoid lying, I said that by mistake.. I most of the time chose to ignore the "no contact with girls" thing most of the time as long as that girl is a good friend of mine.. but I chose to stay away from any kind of intimacies.. just thought id let you know :/
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Rebel
09-17-2009, 01:51 PM
just thought id let you know :/
Thank you :D

Interesting thread... I want an answer too :><:

I personally find nothing wrong with music provided the lyrics don't glorify sin because...

I have a theory that ANYTHING that "feels wrong" IS wrong
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alcurad
09-17-2009, 02:20 PM
music is not forbidden, some scholars forbid it though.

war slaves and the rest, we don't live at that time, hence we can't judge them, not to mention the laws governing slavery etc are not applied nowadays given the world wide abolishing of slavery.

your argument is weak though, why focus on the right to bed only? slavery itself is flowers and sunshine and That is the only thing wrong with it?

a slave who bears child/ren is given the status of mother of children "Umm Walad", and is not so different from another wife in that regard.

you say: "wouldnt it feel wrong to get into bed with your "right hand possession" or "war slave" while your wife is away?"

firstly no need to do it while your wife is with her parents, they usually were kept in separate houses anyway, and this is a criticism of polygamy in general, so I'm not going to waste my breath on it.
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MSalman
09-17-2009, 02:35 PM
as-salamu alaykum

@ChocCi

bro, the actions of the people are not an evidence in the Shari'ah for its permissibility or impressibility. Musical instruments are prohibited in Islam - you may find some odd opinions by some contemporary scholars flying around but these odd opinions has no basis in Islam. You may refer to this

As far the permissibility of for men to engage in physical intimacy with their female POW (prisoners of war) aka slaves, then that has been permitted by Allah. This has many benefits and discussed numerous times before on this board, please do a search.

The Shari'ah is not based on our whims/desires and limited understanding; it is based on the orders of Allah - the Creator Who knows what is best for His creation. We enjoy whatever Allah has made permissible for us and avoid, to best of our ability, whatever Allah has prohibited for us.

format_quote Originally Posted by ChocCi
But hey, shaking hands with girls and hugging girls DONT feel wrong to me
subhaanAllah ya akhee, this is a very dangerous statement - it could lead one to out of Islam. If this is the case then you have no imaan! Refer to the statement of Allah's Messenger (sal-allahu alayhi wa sallam):
The Messenger of Allah (sal-allahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said: “Whoever of you sees an evil action, let him change it with his hand [by taking action against it], and if he cannot, then with his tongue [by speaking out against it], and if he cannot, then with his heart [by feeling that it is wrong], and this is the weakest of faith” (Reported by Muslim, no. 70)
How can you not feel anything wrong when this violates the rights of Allah, Who created you and gave you everything which you have!? Here you are, complaining about how enjoying your female slave behind your wife's back without her consent feels somehow wrong/incorrect (like violating your wife's rights) but then you turn you back and become blind when the rights of Allah are being violated and you fell no remorse or some kind of pain in your heart.

format_quote Originally Posted by ChocCi
if THIS is wrong, how can having sex with your slaves NOT be wrong in any shape or form?
Allah has made one permissible for the believers and prohibited the other. Is that not enough for you!? Why should it be wrong? The female slave is the property of her master and just like she has rights on him likewise the master has rights on her. The free women are not your property and they do not have any rights due to you or vice versa. Therefore, you have to marry them in order to invoke the laws of rights.

If you want to read further about the rights of slaves, you may refer to:

Islam & Slavery - A Refutation of Doubts
Islam and Slavery
Female Slaves
Does Islam Permit Muslim Men to Rape Their Slave Girls?

@alcurad

bro, do not want to start another argument with you, but you need to stop speaking without knowledge and following and promoting these odd opinions. The Salaf used to say when people start collecting/following odd opinions then the time will come when they will have no religion left:
Imam Al-Awza’i (rahimahullah) said: “He who traces the strange opinions of the scholars is out of Islam. You would find a scholar with a lot of knowledge and value, and also with a pitfall. So if a person was to collect the pitfalls of all the scholars and form a new Madhab, then what kind of ‘Ilm would you have?’”

Abu Huraira relates that Allah's Messenger (صلى الله عليه وسلم) said: "there will be a group of people in the end of the days who will bring you views that neither you or your forefathers every heard of. So be warned and let them be warned. Allow them not to misguide you and cause Fitna (i.e. in your hearts)" [Sahih Muslim: 15]

Abu Huraira narrated the prophet (صلى الله عليه و سلم ) said: "In the end of the time there will be liars and fabricators who will report tales and stories that neither you or your fathers have ever heard . Be cautious of those so that they do not misguide you or tempt you" [Saheeh Ibn Habban: 6766]
and Allah knows best
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hellokappa
09-17-2009, 02:37 PM
I read a couple of articles written by Muslims who says that the only way sex is halal is that the couple HAS to be in a marriage, slave or not.

Sigh, I'll try to find the articles, though it'll be like searching a needle in a haystack.
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Eliphaz
09-17-2009, 03:56 PM
:sl: chocci:

Whilst I will not even try to talk about the slave issue, the music issue is something that I too have long struggled with, due to my passion for playing guitar since I was young, and my love of music. So I totally understand where you're coming from. As far as I am aware - and I must emphasise that I am not a scholar on this - the key evidence against music is as follows:

Sahih al-Buhkari, Volume 7, Book 69, Number 494v:

Narrated Abu 'Amir or Abu Malik Al-Ash'ari:

that he heard the Prophet saying, "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful. And there will be some people who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and He will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection."


Also “But there are, among men, those who purchase idle tales, without knowledge (or meaning), to mislead (men) from the Path of Allah and throw ridicule (on the Path): for such there will be a humiliating Penalty.” The Qur'an, 31:6.

The word used for musical instruments is ma'azif, of which the definition is not by itself clear. Due to the fact that the Prophet (saws) allowed the use of the daff (tambourine) during Eid and at weddings, it is believed that the word ma'azif applies to all musical instruments barring the tambourine. In the ayah 31:6, it is agreed by most scholars that 'idle tales/talks' refers to singing.

The evidence that the Propet (saws) allowed the daff during certain events is in Sahih Bukhari, 2:15:103 and 5:59:336, as well as other sahih ahadith.

Of course there are many Muslim artists who use other instruments such as guitars, pianos, keyboards, etc. Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens), Outlandish, Dhaffer Youssef, Dawood Warnsby, and several others. Their messages are of course far from 'idle talks' and I would say inspiring dawah in many cases, but you can't get around the fact that yes, they use musical instruments.

If you want to read some intelligent defenses of musical instruments in Islam I would check out Yusuf Islam's homepage as well as the following link: http://www.mynaraps.com/music.htm. I would not be able to 100 per cent guarantee the facts of this article - particularly where it is said Ghazali condoned music in his Ihya Ulum Al-Din. However just to try and show you that this not as black and white issue as people make it sound.

And God knows best.

:w:

Omar_21:30
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GuestFellow
09-17-2009, 04:19 PM
I got this from a Islamic book:

''Some Muslims believe that all music is disapproved of or even forbidden in Islam, and some ban all instruments except drums but will accept songs (nashid) for the unaccompanied voice. Yet there is no ban mentioned in the Qur'an and it therefore falls into the category of that left to the conscience of the individual. Indeed, the Qur'an tells of Allah bestowing the gift of song upon the Prophet-King Dawud (PBUH) and the mountains echoing him and birds praising God along with them (surah 28.79, 34.10)

Islam has a long tradition of music and song used as a medium to express joy in the faith. There is no typical Muslim music, for there are different types from Africa, Uzbekistan, Bosnia, Turkey, Spain and India. Certain types of music are disapproved of as they lead towards the haram:

1. Pop music with sexual lyrics of sexually provocative rhythms
2. Nationalistic and jingoistic music (God save the Queen is acceptable, Rule Britannia is not)
3. Music which is intended to stir up tolerance for haram substances or behaviour.''

Now my personal opinion on music:

Muslims should learn to appreciate the words of the Qur'an. We don't need music when we have the words of the Qur'an.

Besides listening to certain music makes it personally for me difficult to pray. Sometimes the music pops into my head when I pray namaz, read the Qur'an or even when I go to sleep! : P
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
09-17-2009, 04:24 PM
:sl:

The issue here is not about music or slaves - it's deeper than that. There is a difference between humbly questioning with an intent to understand, and questioning in an arrogant way as if the questioner knows better than Allaah or His Messenger.

{Or do you intend to question your Messenger as Moses was questioned before? And whoever exchanges faith for disbelief has certainly strayed from the soundness of the way.}[al-Baqarah; 108]

My advice to the thread starter is to humble yourself and ask to understand and be taught - not arrogantly assume that you are the knowledgeable epitome of what is right and wrong.

{...And if only they had said: "We hear and obey,'' and "Do make us understand,'' it would have been better for them, and more proper...}[an-Nisa; 46]

The first question to you is, do you accept Allaah as your Lord?
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MSalman
09-17-2009, 04:28 PM
@guestfollow

brother all these points they brought are very weak and show lack of knowledge. Users can refer to many threads on this topic on this board and one can also refer to Is Music Haram? in which I went over the suspicious arguments they bring forward

masha'Allah, your deduction about the Qur'an and affects of listening to music is very accurate

and as brother Malik brought forward a very good point, masha'Allah - the problem is deeper than just finding out about the fiqhi rulings and having questions. These kinds of questions stem from theological perspective and lead to nothing but aqeedah issues and questioning the wisdom of Allah Azz wa Jal, which will eventually take one out of Islam.

and Allah knows best
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ardianto
09-17-2009, 04:30 PM
Mostly scholars in Indonesia allow Islamic song with complete musical instruments such as guitar, bass, keyboard, drum, etc.
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cat eyes
09-17-2009, 04:45 PM
theres already loads of threads about music! we know that the prophet mohammad pbuh reverted slave women to islam and then MARRIED THEM never fornicated with them before marriage. you are better off asking a scholar because he will be able to give you a detailed answer
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rk9414
09-17-2009, 05:43 PM
http://www.athaar.org/articles/fiqh/misc/fiqh_music.pdf

وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يَشْتَرِي لَهْوَ الْحَدِيثِ لِيُضِلَّ عَن سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَيَتَّخِذَهَا هُزُوًا أُولَئِكَ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ مُّهِينٌ

((And there are among men, those that purchase idle tales, to mislead (men) from the path of Allah and throw ridicule. For such there will be a humiliating punishment))[1]

The scholars of Tafseer have stated that ‘Idle Talk’ refs to music and singing.

‘Abdullaah ibn Mas’ood ( رضي الله عنه ) swore by Allaah three times about this verse being in reference to Music,
فقال عبد اللّه بن مسعود: الغناء، واللّه الذي لا إله إلا هو، يردها ثلاث مرات

((By Allaah, of who there is nothing worthy of worship except Him, its meaning is Music)) [2] and he said this three times.

This saying has also been narrated from many others amongst the salaf as-Saalih, such as Ibn ‘Abbaas ( رضي الله عنه who said[3],

عن بن عباس في هذه الآية { من يشتري لهو الحديث } قال نزلت في الغناء وأشباهه

((This verse- And those who purchase Idle Talks- was revealed for music, singing and the like.)


The Prophet ( صلى الله عليه وسلم ) is reported to have said,

النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم يقول ليكونن من أمتي أقوام يستحلون الحر والحرير والخمر والمعازف ولينزلن أقوام إلى
جنب علم يروح عليهم بسارحة لهم يأتيهم لحاجة فيقولون ارجع إلينا غدا فيبيتهم الله ويضع العلم ويمسخ آخرين قردة
وخنازير إلى يوم القبامة

((Among my Ummah there will certainly be people who permit zinaa, silk, alcohol and musical instruments…))[4] until the end of the hadeeth.

The Imaams of the four Madhaahib were all in agreement of the prohibition of Musical instruments
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optimist
09-17-2009, 06:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ChOcCi
So HOW ON EARTH can sex with slaves be allowed?
Salam,

At the advent of Islam, like in the rest of the world, slavery was prevalent among Arabs, too. Prisoners of war were turned into slaves by them. When they embraced Islam, they already had such slaves and concubines in their homes. If Islam had ordered them all out, then there would have been chaos in the society. Hence such laws were established by which they were gradually either free or made part of the family.

Whatever laws The Quran contains about slaves, are intended for these slaves who were already present in society. "Ma Malakat Aimanukum" means those who are already in your possession. This is stated in the past tense, meaning something that has been done before. For the future, The Quran completely closed the door on slavery. This is how it was done. For prisoners of war, the order was quite clear. The Quran says that after over powering them: either be gracious to let them go, or take ransom and let them free - (47:4).

Wassalam
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alcurad
09-17-2009, 06:09 PM
on music
http://www.4shared.com/file/50108835...ml?err=no-sess

it's in Arabic.
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MSalman
09-17-2009, 06:21 PM
and then we wonder why Allah's wrath is upon us and why we are in such miserable state right now?

O mankind! Eat of that which is lawful and good on the earth, and follow not the footsteps of Shaitân (Satan). Verily, he is to you an open enemy: He [Shaitân (Satan)] commands you only what is evil and Fahshâ (sinful), and that you should say against Allâh what you know not. [Surah al-Baqarah (2) - 168-169 - interpretation of the meaning]

It is such a waste of time arguing with those who are ashamed of their religion and thus want to alter it.

format_quote Originally Posted by optimist
For the future, The Quran completely closed the door on slavery.
if you are truthful then bring a proof
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Eliphaz
09-17-2009, 06:59 PM
From my recent research I would not go as far to say that the Qur'an closed he door on slavery, but it encourages the emancipation of slaves, as per the following ayat:

“The truly good are those who believe in God and the Last Day...and liberate those in bondage;” (2:177)

“Never should a believer kill another believer, except by mistake. If anyone kills a believer by mistake he must free one Muslim slave and pay compensation to the victim’s relatives unless they charitably forgo it;” (4:92).

There are other instances where one must free a slave to atone for a sin, for example, breaking an oath (5:89) or missing a fast (Bukhari).

The definition of slavery within the context of 'right hands possess' refers to unclaimed war captives who cannot dissolve previous marriages. This was common during 7th century Arabia. Not so common now. The word slave has come to mean something almost entirely different nowadays.

As for rape of anyone let alone slaves, this is definitely (and I hope obviously to everyone) not allowed in any capacity as far as Qur'an or hadith are concerned.
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_PakistaN_
09-18-2009, 06:31 AM
Bro, there is a reason why people say music is forbidden. there are big meanings in songs which you don't even know of. if u do ur research. u might find out. music corrupts. especially the one that comes out now days. one song i found a message in was lady gaga "love game" song. it may seem like the song is perfectly ok to listen to. but i bet even u can pin point the message in that.
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ChOcCi
09-18-2009, 07:38 AM
@islamiclife: I skimmed through all those links, but 3 of them ONLY talked about "raping slaves" but I found the Islam and Slavery one quite useful. But the problem is, although it justified slavery and thankfully, I managed to understand why slavery is allowed, it still did not justify why sex with slaves is allowed. In truth, I read through google and noticed that all those articles have A LOT on slavery, but it generally tries to avoid this particular subject. But I have another question.

Suppose you took in a Kaffir as a war slave, and after few months of service inside our muslim community, he understood the value of Islam and chose to convert into a muslim.. So in that case, is it a law to release the slave or is it the owner's choice if the newly converted slave will be released or not??

Oh and isnt there any limit (number of years) to how long you have to remain a slave?

@omar, thank you SO much for the link man.. This clarifies the thing about music I guess. for me personally that is..

@maalik: YES, I do accept Allah as my lord, I always have and always will. I pray whenever I can (sometimes I cant manage the time to say my Asr or Johr prayers while im out), and I do believe that I DID accept Allah although I have a lot to learn.

But its kinda hypocritical of you isnt it? While your accusing me of asking questions arrogantly arent you the one who is making an arrogant accusation (more like implying it) that I believe that I know more than Islam? As you wrote here:

There is a difference between humbly questioning with an intent to understand, and questioning in an arrogant way as if the questioner knows better than Allaah or His Messenger.
My advice to the thread starter is to humble yourself and ask to understand and be taught - not arrogantly assume that you are the knowledgeable epitome of what is right and wrong.
I asked because I wanted to know and justify this so that I can fully accept Islam in my heart. Not because I wanted to prove that I found a loophole in Islam or anything but it seems as if your trying to imply that I attempted the latter. I seemed arrogant on my first post because I was angry at that time when I posted it, and incase you missed it, please, DO re-read my second post where you'll see that I apologized for my arrogance and I even gave an explanation for it.

Dont be so quick to judge others Maalik. I believe in Allah with all my heart.

back at the topic: Id really apprciate it if someone could post a proper link to a page where sex with slaves is justified or if its not to much trouble, explain this factor to me?

Thanks for the feedback guys :)
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ChOcCi
09-18-2009, 07:46 AM
Oh and another thing, given that "only songs with bad lyrics are haram" theory is true, what if the song I listen to has good lyrics.. Like for example The Scientist by Coldplay.. I mean, its such a good and beautiful song and theres nothing bad in it.. Are you saying that songs like these are haram too?
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
09-18-2009, 09:07 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ChOcCi
@maalik: YES, I do accept Allah as my lord, I always have and always will. I pray whenever I can (sometimes I cant manage the time to say my Asr or Johr prayers while im out), and I do believe that I DID accept Allah although I have a lot to learn.

But its kinda hypocritical of you isnt it? While your accusing me of asking questions arrogantly arent you the one who is making an arrogant accusation (more like implying it) that I believe that I know more than Islam? As you wrote here:

I asked because I wanted to know and justify this so that I can fully accept Islam in my heart. Not because I wanted to prove that I found a loophole in Islam or anything but it seems as if your trying to imply that I attempted the latter. I seemed arrogant on my first post because I was angry at that time when I posted it, and incase you missed it, please, DO re-read my second post where you'll see that I apologized for my arrogance and I even gave an explanation for it.

Dont be so quick to judge others Maalik. I believe in Allah with all my heart.

back at the topic: Id really apprciate it if someone could post a proper link to a page where sex with slaves is justified or if its not to much trouble, explain this factor to me?

Thanks for the feedback guys :)
:sl:

It's not an arrogant accusation, it's a reply that is based on your methods of questioning and your comments, which stretch past your first post. And being angry or not is beside the point - today this caused you anger, what about tomorrow? I'm glad your asking questions, but in Islam we also have a way and mannerism of asking questions and that is what I wanted to point out. Comments such as which are in other posts:

I talked about really disturbs me as it gives me a low opinion of this part of Islam
are they ALL sinning?? Who's going to go to heaven then?
even if we were all living a thousand years back, wouldnt it feel wrong to get into bed with your "right hand possession" or "war slave" while your wife is away?
How can this be justified?
You cant be a good man if you do such a thing. NEVER.
You could have simply asked to be made to understand and avoided actually questioning the religion.

Now, I asked if you accept Allaah as your Lord (I know you do)- because I intended to remind you that that is the core relationship between us and Allaah. He is our Master, and we are His willing slaves, we give ourselves into His servitude willingly. That means we accept that since He created us, He knows best about what benefits or harms us. If He has made music forbidden, then there is something harmful there. If He has made intimacy permissible with slaves, then the benefits out weigh whatever harms we might see. That's my point.
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optimist
09-18-2009, 09:12 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamiclife
if you are truthful then bring a proof
Salam,

Islam effectively prohibited slavery by prohibiting making people slaves in any way except temporarily during wars (as prisoners of war). Once the war is over, such people must either be freed by negotiation and ransom (e.g. exchanges of prisoners of war) or set free without any ransom. Here is the verse;

“And when you meet in regular battle those who disbelieve, smite their necks; and, when you have overcome them, by causing great slaughter among them, bind fast the fetters -- then afterwards either release them as a favour or by taking ransom -- until the war lays down its burdens. That is the ordinance.”(47:4)

Slavery was not initiated by Islam, it had been in practice long before the advent of Islam. It was the prevailing custom to have captives and those captives or prisoners used to be turned into slaves and concubines by their masters. When people came to Islam, they already had slaves in their possession. It would have be chaotic if Islam had instructed all of them to be free. Therefore such laws were promulgated which would gradually ensure their freedom. The word “right hands possess” also has another significance that clearly reflects the great concern Islam has for preserving the rights of those captives. The term is used in the past tense as those who are already in your possession. This is also very significant.

wassalam
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ChOcCi
09-18-2009, 03:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Maalik
:sl:

It's not an arrogant accusation, it's a reply that is based on your methods of questioning and your comments, which stretch past your first post. And being angry or not is beside the point - today this caused you anger, what about tomorrow? I'm glad your asking questions, but in Islam we also have a way and mannerism of asking questions and that is what I wanted to point out. Comments such as which are in other posts:

You could have simply asked to be made to understand and avoided actually questioning the religion.

Now, I asked if you accept Allaah as your Lord (I know you do)- because I intended to remind you that that is the core relationship between us and Allaah. He is our Master, and we are His willing slaves, we give ourselves into His servitude willingly. That means we accept that since He created us, He knows best about what benefits or harms us. If He has made music forbidden, then there is something harmful there. If He has made intimacy permissible with slaves, then the benefits out weigh whatever harms we might see. That's my point.
hmm, in that case, im really sorry.. Im kinda new to these forums so I guess some things slipped from my mind that I didnt mean to say like that.

But either way, about the music thing, true, if it was directly written in the Qur'an that music is forbidden, I would try my best to move away from it. But to be honest, its a mixed message and there are a lot of people who are on either side..

I simply idolize (not in the bad sense) Dr. Zakir Naik but even he believes that music isnt exactly good but I cant seem to agree with that as theres no sufficient proof to back this up.


Listen, Allah treats all of us fairly right? Then he treats us in the modern time AS equally as the ones in the medieval times am I right?

If so, SINCE slavery was allowed by Islamic law as it had become a custom back then in the Medieval times (one of the reasons), Music should be allowed as it has become a custom now in the Modern times. But obviously, there MUST be restrictions, the way Islam restricted slavery, some bad "lyriced" music should be banned as well. But limiting Music to ONLY daaf is unfair as slavery was not limited to THAT extent, so rules for music should be a little less strict too right? This is because hardly ANYONE listens to ONLY daaf based music.[/b] Now, there is NO SOLID PROOF (as it can be countered) that music is banned in Islam so im making this statement believing that music is not banned. But I ofcourse, will agree that we have to listen to music in such a way so that it does not allow our soul to stay clean..

With this logic, I believe that Music is not haram in Islam.


But this is a question to ALL of you people who are telling me music is haram.

Do you, do you not watch TV?

TV has music in it, and if you do watch TV, then your sinning (according to your belief) :)

Im sorry if I sounded rude here, but I just wanted to make a point.
Reply

ChOcCi
09-18-2009, 03:45 PM
OMG!! wheres the edit button in this thing??

But I ofcourse, will agree that we have to listen to music in such a way so that it does not allow our soul to stay clean..
haha I made a typing error on this.. I meant to say that we have to listen to music in such a way so that it does not make our souls impure...

P.S doesnt this forum have a "edit" button?
Reply

GuestFellow
09-18-2009, 05:22 PM
^ You need to reach 50 posts before you can use the edit button. : D
Reply

Ibn Abi Ahmed
09-18-2009, 08:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ChOcCi
hmm, in that case, im really sorry.. Im kinda new to these forums so I guess some things slipped from my mind that I didnt mean to say like that.
No problem :)

But either way, about the music thing, true, if it was directly written in the Qur'an that music is forbidden, I would try my best to move away from it. But to be honest, its a mixed message and there are a lot of people who are on either side..
This is flawed logic. The Qur'an is a Book of Guidance, not a compendium of religious rulings. It mentions the generalities, and the specific application is found in the Sunnah of the Messenger (saw).

With this logic, I believe that Music is not haram in Islam.
If the religion was based on logic, we would wipe under our shoes and not on top of them during Wudu. Rather, the religion is based upon what Allaah and His Messenger (saw) have commanded us.

I want you to read this short piece a brother wrote reflecting on the death of Micheal Jackson earlier this year:
http://alternativeentertainment.word...80%93-beat-it/

I listened to music too and it was tough to leave it, believe me. But it can be done - after all you're doing it to please and be thankful to the Lord that created you and gave you the ears you use in the first place. He concludes the piece with:
I wrote this because the way I treat other peoples’ difficulty with music and other sinful issues is by remembering my own times and difficulties first and starting there. Changing others means changing yourself first, and changing your love for music is about the most difficult thing there is out there. But it can be done. The more serious and deep an interest you take in your religion, the more you’ll become closer to the Qur’an. The deeper and more seriously and sincerely you advance, the better it will become insha’Allah.

It’s never been easy to leave the beat, but alhamdulillah for the wonder, serenity, and perfection of Allah’s Word. Music…beat it.
Reply

aadil77
09-18-2009, 11:13 PM
This is for your music issue

Praise be to Allaah.

Ma’aazif is the plural of mi’zafah, and refers to musical instruments (Fath al-Baari, 10/55), instruments which are played (al-Majmoo’, 11/577). Al-Qurtubi (may Allaah have mercy on him) narrated from al-Jawhari (may Allaah have mercy on him) that ma’aazif means singing. In his Sihaah it says that it means musical instruments. It was also said that it refers to the sound of the instruments. In al-Hawaashi by al-Dimyaati (may Allaah have mercy on him) it says: ma’aazif means drums (dufoof, sing. daff) and other instruments which are struck or beaten (Fath al-Baari, 10/55).

Evidence of prohibition in the Qur’aan and Sunnah:

Allaah says in Soorat Luqmaan (interpretation of the meaning):

“And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing) to mislead (men) from the path of Allaah…” [Luqmaan 31:6]

The scholar of the ummah, Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: this means singing. Mujaahid (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: this means playing the drum (tabl). (Tafseer al-Tabari, 21/40).

Al-Hasan al-Basri (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: this aayah was revealed concerning singing and musical instruments (lit. woodwind instruments). (Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 3/451).

Al-Sa’di (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: this includes all manner of haraam speech, all idle talk and falsehood, and all nonsense that encourages kufr and disobedience; the words of those who say things to refute the truth and argue in support of falsehood to defeat the truth; and backbiting, slander, lies, insults and curses; the singing and musical instruments of the Shaytaan; and musical instruments which are of no spiritual or worldly benefit. (Tafseer al-Sa’di, 6/150)

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The interpretation of the Sahaabah and Taabi’in, that ‘idle talk’ refers to singing, is sufficient. This was reported with saheeh isnaads from Ibn ‘Abbaas and Ibn Mas’ood. Abu’l-Sahbaa’ said: I asked Ibn Mas’ood about the aayah (interpretation of the meaning), ‘“And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks’ [Luqmaan 31:6]. He said: By Allaah, besides Whom there is no other god, this means singing – and he repeated it three times. It was also reported with a saheeh isnaad from Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with them both) that this means singing. There is no contradiction between the interpretation of “idle talk” as meaning singing and the interpretation of it as meaning stories of the Persians and their kings, and the kings of the Romans, and so on, such as al-Nadr ibn al-Haarith used to tell to the people of Makkah to distract them from the Qur’aan. Both of them are idle talk. Hence Ibn ‘Abbaas said: “Idle talk” is falsehood and singing. Some of the Sahaabah said one and some said the other, and some said both. Singing is worse and more harmful than stories of kings, because it leads to zinaa and makes hypocrisy grow (in the heart); it is the trap of the Shaytaan, and it clouds the mind. The way in which it blocks people from the Qur’aan is worse than the way in which other kinds of false talk block them, because people are naturally inclined towards it and tend to want to listen to it. The aayaat condemn replacing the Qur’aan with idle talk in order to mislead (men) from the path of Allaah without knowledge and taking it as a joke, because when an aayah of the Qur’aan is recited to such a person, he turns his back as if he heard them not, as if there were deafness in his ear. If he hears anything of it, he makes fun of it. All of this happens only in the case of the people who are most stubbornly kaafirs and if some of it happens to singers and those who listen to them, they both have a share of this blame. (Ighaathat al-Lahfaan, 1/258-259).

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“[Allaah said to Iblees:] And befool them gradually those whom you can among them with your voice (i.e. songs, music, and any other call for Allaah’s disobedience)…” [al-Israa’ 17:64]

It was narrated that Mujaahid (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “And befool them gradually those whom you can among them with your voice” – his voice [the voice of Iblees/Shaytaan] is singing and falsehood. Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: This idaafah [possessive or genitive construction, i.e., your voice] serves to make the meaning specific, as with the phrases [translated as] “your cavalry” and “your infantry” [later in the same aayah]. Everyone who speaks in any way that is not obedient to Allaah, everyone who blows into a flute or other woodwind instrument, or who plays any haraam kind of drum, this is the voice of the Shaytaan. Everyone who walks to commit some act of disobedience towards Allaah is part of his [the Shaytaan’s] infantry, and anyone who rides to commit sin is part of his cavalry. This is the view of the Salaf, as Ibn ‘Abi Haatim narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas: his infantry is everyone who walks to disobey Allaah. (Ighaathat al-Lahfaan).

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Do you then wonder at this recitation (the Qur’aan)?

And you laugh at it and weep not,

Wasting your (precious) lifetime in pastime and amusements (singing)”

[al-Najm 53:59-61]

‘Ikrimah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: it was narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas that al-sumood [verbal noun from saamidoon, translated here as “Wasting your (precious) lifetime in pastime and amusements (singing)”] means “singing”, in the dialect of Himyar; it might be said “Ismidi lanaa” [‘sing for us’ – from the same root as saamidoon/sumood] meaning “ghaniy” [sing]. And he said (may Allaah have mercy on him): When they [the kuffaar] heard the Qur’aan, they would sing, then this aayah was revealed.

Ibn Katheer (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning) “Wasting your (precious) lifetime in pastime and amusements (singing)” – Sufyaan al-Thawri said, narrating from his father from Ibn ‘Abbaas: (this means) singing. This is Yemeni (dialect): ismad lana means ghan lana [sing to us]. This was also the view of ‘Ikrimah. (Tafseer Ibn Katheer).

It was reported from Abu Umaamah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Do not sell singing slave women, do not buy them and do not teach them. There is nothing good in this trade, and their price is haraam. Concerning such things as this the aayah was revealed (interpretation of the meaning): ‘And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing) to mislead (men) from the path of Allaah…’ [Luqmaan 31:6].” (Hasan hadeeth)

The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

“Among my ummah there will certainly be people who permit zinaa, silk, alcohol and musical instruments…” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari ta’leeqan, no. 5590; narrated as mawsool by al-Tabaraani and al-Bayhaqi. See al-Silsilah al-Saheehah by al-Albaani, 91).

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: This is a saheeh hadeeth narrated by al-Bukhaari in his Saheeh, where he quoted it as evidence and stated that it is mu’allaq and majzoom. He said: Chapter on what was narrated concerning those who permit alcohol and call it by another name.

This hadeeth indicates in two ways that musical instruments and enjoyment of listening to music are haraam. The first is the fact that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “[they] permit” which clearly indicates that the things mentioned, including musical instruments, are haraam according to sharee’ah, but those people will permit them. The second is the fact that musical instruments are mentioned alongside things which are definitely known to be haraam, i.e., zinaa and alcohol: if they (musical instruments) were not haraam, why would they be mentioned alongside these things? (adapted from al-Silsilah al-Saheehah by al-Albaani, 1/140-141)

Shaykh al-Islam (Ibn Taymiyah) (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: This hadeeth indicates that ma’aazif are haraam, and ma’aazif means musical instruments according to the scholars of (Arabic) language. This word includes all such instruments. (al-Majmoo’, 11/535).

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: And concerning the same topic similar comments were narrated from Sahl ibn Sa’d al-Saa’idi, ‘Imraan ibn Husayn, ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Amr, ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Abbaas, Abu Hurayrah, Abu Umaamah al-Baahili, ‘Aa’ishah Umm al-Mu’mineen, ‘Ali ibn Abi Taalib, Anas ibn Maalik, ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn Saabit and al-Ghaazi ibn Rabee’ah. Then he mentioned it in Ighaathat al-Lahfaan, and it indicates that they (musical instruments) are haraam.

It was narrated that Naafi’ (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: Ibn ‘Umar heard a woodwind instrument, and he put his fingers in his ears and kept away from that path. He said to me, O Naafi’, can you hear anything? I said, No. So he took his fingers away from his ears and said: I was with the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and he heard something like this, and he did the same thing. (Saheeh Abi Dawood). Some insignificant person said that this hadeeth does not prove that musical instruments are haraam, because if that were so, the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) would have instructed Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with them both) to put his fingers in his ears as well, and Ibn ‘Umar would have instructed Naafi’ to do likewise! The response to this is: He was not listening to it, but he could hear it. There is a difference between listening and hearing. Shaykh al-Islam (Ibn Taymiyah) (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: Concerning (music) which a person does not intend to listen to, there is no prohibition or blame, according to scholarly consensus. Hence blame or praise is connected to listening, not to hearing. The one who listens to the Qur’aan will be rewarded for it, whereas the one who hears it without intending or wanting to will not be rewarded for that, because actions are judged by intentions. The same applies to musical instruments which are forbidden: if a person hears them without intending to, that does not matter. (al-Majmoo’, 10/78).

Ibn Qudaamah al-Maqdisi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: the listener is the one who intends to hear, which was not the case with Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with them both); what happened in his case was hearing. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) needed to know when the sound stopped because he had moved away from that path and blocked his ears. So he did not want to go back to that path or unblock his ears until the noise had stopped, so when he allowed Ibn ‘Umar to continue hearing it, this was because of necessity. (al-Mughni, 10/173)

(Even though the hearing referred to in the comments of the two imaams is makrooh, it was permitted because of necessity, as we will see below in the comments of Imaam Maalik (may Allaah have mercy on him). And Allaah knows best).

The views of the scholars (imaams) of Islam

Al-Qaasim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: Singing is part of falsehood. Al-Hasan (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: if there is music involved in a dinner invitation (waleemah), do not accept the invitation (al-Jaami by al-Qayrawaani, p. 262-263).

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The view of the four Imaams is that all kinds of musical instruments are haraam. It was reported in Saheeh al-Bukhaari and elsewhere that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said that there would be among his ummah those who would allow zinaa, silk, alcohol and musical instruments, and he said that they would be transformed into monkeys and pigs… None of the followers of the imaams mentioned any dispute concerning the matter of music. (al-Majmoo’, 11/576).

Al-Albaani (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The four madhhabs are agreed that all musical instruments are haraam. (al-Saheehah, 1/145).

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The madhhab of Abu Haneefah is the strictest in this regard, and his comments are among the harshest. His companions clearly stated that it is haraam to listen to all musical instruments such as the flute and the drum, even tapping a stick. They stated that it is a sin which implies that a person is a faasiq (rebellious evil doer) whose testimony should be rejected. They went further than that and said that listening to music is fisq (rebellion, evildoing) and enjoying it is kufr (disbelief). This is their words. They narrated in support of that a hadeeth which could not be attributed to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). They said: he should try not to hear it if he passes by it or it is in his vicinity. Abu Yoosuf said, concerning a house from which could be heard the sound of musical instruments: Go in without their permission, because forbidding evil actions is obligatory, and if it were not allowed to enter without permission, people could not have fulfilled the obligatory duty (of enjoining what is good and forbidding what is evil). (Ighaathat al-Lahfaan, 1/425).

Imaam Maalik (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked about playing the drum or flute, if a person happens to hear the sound and enjoy it whilst he is walking or sitting. He said: He should get up if he finds that he enjoys it, unless he is sitting down for a need or is unable to get up. If he is on the road, he should either go back or move on. (al-Jaami’ by al-Qayrawaani, 262). He (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “The only people who do things like that, in our view, are faasiqs.” (Tafseer al-Qurtubi, 14/55).

Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: Among the types of earnings which are haraam by scholarly consensus are ribaa, the fee of a prostitute, anything forbidden, bribes, payment for wailing over the dead and singing, payments to fortune-tellers and those who claim to know the unseen and astrologers, payments for playing flutes, and all kinds of gambling. (al-Kaafi).

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said, explaining the view of Imaam al-Shaafa'i: His companions who know his madhhab (point of view) stated that it is haraam and denounced those who said that he permitted it. (Ighaathat al-Lahfaan, 1/425).

The author of Kifaayat al-Akhbaar, who was one of the Shaafa’is, counted musical instruments such as flutes and others, as being munkar (evil), and the one who is present (where they are being played) should denounce them. (He cannot be excused by the fact that there are bad scholars, because they are corrupting the sharee’ah, or evil faqeers – meaning the Sufis, because they call themselves fuqaraa’ or faqeers – because they are ignorant and follow anyone who makes noise; they are not guided by the light of knowledge; rather they are blown about by every wind. (Kifaayat al-Akhbaar, 2/128).

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: With regard to the view of Imaam Ahmad, his son ‘Abd-Allaah said: I asked my father about singing. He said: Singing makes hypocrisy grow in the heart; I do not like it. Then he mentioned the words of Maalik: the evildoers (faasiqs) among us do that. (Ighaathat al-Lahfaan).

Ibn Qudaamah, the researcher of the Hanbali madhhab – (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: Musical instruments are of three types which are haraam. These are the strings and all kinds of flute, and the lute, drum and rabaab (stringed instrument) and so on. Whoever persists in listening to them, his testimony should be rejected. (al-Mughni, 10/173). And he said (may Allaah have mercy on him); If a person is invited to a gathering in which there is something objectionable, such as wine and musical instruments, and he is able to denounce it, then he should attend and speak out against it, because then he will be combining two obligatory duties. If he is not able to do that, then he should not attend. (al-Kaafi, 3/118)

Al-Tabari (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The scholars of all regions are agreed that singing is makrooh and should be prevented. Although Ibraaheem ibn Sa’d and ‘Ubayd-Allaah al-‘Anbari differed from the majority, (it should be noted that) the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Adhere to the majority.” And whoever dies differing from the majority, dies as a jaahili. (Tafseer al-Qurtubi, 14/56). In earlier generations, the word “makrooh” was used to mean haraam, then it took on the meaning of “disliked”. But this is to be understood as meaning that it is forbidden, because he [al-Tabari] said “it should be prevented”, and nothing is to be prevented except that which is haraam; and because in the two hadeeths quoted, music is denounced in the strongest terms. Al-Qurtubi (may Allaah have mercy on him) is the one who narrated this report, then he said: Abu’l-Faraj and al-Qaffaal among our companions said: the testimony of the singer and the dancer is not to be accepted. I say: if it is proven that this matter is not permissible, then accepting payment for it is not permissible either.

Shaykh al-Fawzaan (may Allaah preserve him) said: What Ibraaheem ibn Sa’d and ‘Ubayd-Allaah al-‘Anbari said about singing is not like the kind of singing that is known nowadays, for they would never have allowed this kind of singing which is the utmost in immorality and obscenity. (al-I’laam)

Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: It is not permissible to make musical instruments. (al-Majmoo’, 22/140). And he said: According to the majority of fuqahaa’, it is permissible to destroy musical instruments, such as the tanboor [a stringed instrument similar to a mandolin]. This is the view of Maalik and is the more famous of the two views narrated from Ahmad. (al-Majmoo’, 28/113). And he said: …Ibn al-Mundhir mentioned that the scholars were agreed that it is not permissible to pay people to sing and wail… the consensus of all the scholars whose views we have learned about is that wailing and singing are not allowed. Al-Shu’bi, al-Nakha’i and Maalik regarded that as makrooh [i.e., haraam]. Abu Thawr, al-Nu’maan – Abu Haneefah (may Allaah have mercy on him) – and Ya’qoob and Muhammad, two of the students of Abu Haneefah said: it is not permissible to pay anything for singing and wailing. This is our view. And he said: musical instruments are the wine of the soul, and what it does to the soul is worse than what intoxicating drinks do. (Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 10/417).

Ibn Abi Shaybah (may Allaah have mercy on him) reported that a man broke a mandolin belonging to another man, and the latter took his case to Shurayh. But Shurayh did not award him any compensation – i.e., he did not make the first man pay the cost of the mandolin, because it was haraam and had no value. (al-Musannaf, 5/395).

Al-Baghawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) stated in a fatwa that it is haraam to sell all kinds of musical instruments such as mandolins, flutes, etc. Then he said: If the images are erased and the musical instruments are altered, then it is permissible to sell their parts, whether they are silver, iron, wood or whatever. (Sharh al-Sunnah, 8/28)

An appropriate exception

The exception to the above is the daff – without any rings (i.e., a hand-drum which looks like a tambourine, but without any rattles) – when used by women on Eids and at weddings. This is indicated by saheeh reports. Shaykh al-Islam (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: But the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) made allowances for certain types of musical instruments at weddings and the like, and he made allowances for women to play the daff at weddings and on other joyful occasions. But the men at his time did not play the daff or clap with their hands. It was narrated in al-Saheeh that he said: “Clapping is for women and tasbeeh (saying Subhaan Allaah) is for men.” And he cursed women who imitate men and men who imitate women. Because singing and playing the daff are things that women do, the Salaf used to call any man who did that a mukhannath (effeminate man), and they used to call male singers effeminate – and how many of them there are nowadays! It is well known that the Salaf said this.

In a similar vein is the hadeeth of ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her), when her father (may Allaah be pleased with him) entered upon her at the time of Eid, and there were two young girls with her who were singing the verses that the Ansaar had said on the day of Bu’aath – and any sensible person will know what people say about war. Abu Bakr (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “Musical instruments of the Shaytaan in the house of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)!” The Messenger of Allaah had turned away from them and was facing the wall – hence some scholars said that Abu Bakr (may Allaah be pleased with him) would not tell anybody off in front of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), but he thought that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was not paying attention to what was happening. And Allaah knows best. He (the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)) said: “Leave them alone, O Abu Bakr, for every nation has its Eid, and this is our Eid, the people of Islam.” This hadeeth shows that it was not the habit of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and his companions to gather to listen to singing, hence Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq called it “the musical instruments of the Shaytaan”. And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) approved of this appellation and did not deny it when he said, “Leave them alone, for every nation has its Eid and this is our Eid.” This indicates that the reason why this was permitted was because it was the time of Eid, and the prohibition remained in effect at times other than Eid, apart from the exceptions made for weddings in other ahaadeeth. Shaykh al-Albaani explained this in his valuable book Tahreem Aalaat al-Tarab (the Prohibition of Musical Instruments). The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) approved of young girls singing at Eid, as stated in the hadeeth: “So that the mushrikeen will know that in our religion there is room for relaxation.” There is no indication in the hadeeth about the two young girls that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was listening to them. The commands and prohibitions have to do with listening, not merely hearing, just as in the case of seeing, the rules have to do with intentionally looking and not what happens by accident. So it is clear that this is for women only. Imaam Abu ‘Ubayd (may Allaah have mercy on him) defined the daff as “that which is played by women.” (Ghareeb al-Hadeeth, 3/64).

An inappropriate exception
Some of them make an exception for drums at times of war, and consequentially some modern scholars have said that military music is allowed. But there is no basis for this at all, for a number of reasons, the first of which is that this is making an exception with no clear evidence, apart from mere opinion and thinking that it is good, and this is wrong. The second reason is that what the Muslims should do at times of war is to turn their hearts towards their Lord. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“They ask you (O Muhammad) about the spoils of war. Say: ‘The spoils are for Allaah and the Messenger.’ So fear Allaah and adjust all matters of difference among you…” [al-Anfaal 8:1]. But using music is the opposite of this idea of taqwa and it would distract them from remembering their Lord. Thirdly, using music is one of the customs of the kuffaar, and it is not permitted to imitate them, especially with regard to something that Allaah has forbidden to us in general, such as music. (al-Saheehah, 1/145)

“No people go astray after having been guided except they developed arguments amongst themselves.” (Saheeh)

Some of them used the hadeeth about the Abyssinians playing in the mosque of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) as evidence that singing is allowed! Al-Bukhaari included this hadeeth in his Saheeh under the heading Baab al-Hiraab wa’l-Daraq Yawm al-‘Eid (Chapter on Spears and Shields on the Day of Eid). Al-Nawawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: This indicates that it is permissible to play with weapons and the like in the mosque, and he applied that to other activities connected with jihaad. (Sharh Muslim). But as al-Haafiz ibn Hajar (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: whoever speaks about something which is not his profession will come up with weird ideas such as these.

Some of them use as evidence the hadeeth about the singing of the two young girls, which we have discussed above, but we will quote what Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said, because it is valuable:

I am amazed that you quote as evidence for allowing listening to sophisticated songs the report which we mentioned about how two young girls who were below the age of puberty sang to a young woman on the day of Eid some verses of Arab poetry about bravery in war and other noble characteristics. How can you compare this to that? What is strange is that this hadeeth is one of the strongest proofs against them. The greatest speaker of the truth [Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq] called them musical instruments of the Shaytaan, and the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) approved of that appellation, but he made an exception in the case of these two young girls who had not yet reached the age of responsibility and the words of whose songs could not corrupt anyone who listened to them. Can this be used as evidence to allow what you do and what you know of listening (to music) which includes (bad) things which are not hidden?! Subhaan Allaah! How people can be led astray! (Madaarij al-Saalikeen, 1/493).

Ibn al-Jawzi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) was young at that time; nothing was transmitted from her after she reached the age of puberty except condemnation of singing. Her brother’s son, al-Qaasim ibn Muhammad, condemned singing and said that it was not allowed to listen to it, and he took his knowledge from her. (Talbees Iblees, 229). Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: A group of the Sufis used this hadeeth – the hadeeth about the two young girls – as evidence that singing is allowed and it is allowed to listen to it, whether it is accompanied by instruments or not. This view is sufficiently refuted by the clear statement of ‘Aa’ishah in the following hadeeth, where she says, “They were not singers.” She made it clear that they were not singers as such, although this may be understood from the wording of the report. So we should limit it to what was narrated in the text as regards the occasion and the manner, so as to reduce the risk of going against the principle, i.e., the hadeeth. And Allaah knows best. (Fath al-Baari, 2/442-443).

Some people even have the nerve to suggest that the Sahaabah and Taabi’een listened to singing, and that they saw nothing wrong with it!

Al-Fawzaan (may Allaah preserve him) said: We demand them to show us saheeh isnaads going back to these Sahaabah and Taabi’een, proving what they attribute to them. Then he said: Imaam Muslim mentioned in his introduction to his Saheeh that ‘Abd-Allaah ibn al-Mubaarak said: The isnaad is part of religion. Were it not for the isnaad, whoever wanted to could say whatever he wanted to.

Some of them said that the ahaadeeth which forbid music are full of faults. No hadeeth was free of being criticized by some of the scholars. Ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The ahaadeeth which were narrated concerning music being haraam are not full of faults as has been claimed. Some of them are in Saheeh al-Bukhaari which is the soundest of books after the Book of Allaah, and some of them are hasan and some are da’eef. But because they are so many, with different isnaads, they constitute definitive proof that singing and musical instruments are haraam.

All the imaams agreed on the soundness of the ahaadeeth which forbid singing and musical instruments, apart from Abu Haamid al-Ghazzaali, but al-Ghazzaali did not have knowledge of hadeeth; and Ibn Hazam, but al-Albaani (may Allaah have mercy on him) explained where Ibn Hazam went wrong, and Ibn Hazam himself said that if any of (these ahaadeeth) were saheeh, he would follow that. But now they have proof that these reports are saheeh because there are so many books by the scholars which state that these ahaadeeth are saheeh, but they turn their backs on that. They are far more extreme than Ibn Hazam and they are nothing like him, for they are not qualified and cannot be referred to.

Some of them said that the scholars forbade singing because it is mentioned alongside gatherings in which alcohol is drunk and where people stay up late at night for evil purposes.

Al-Shawkaani (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The response to this is that mentioning these things in conjunction does not only mean that what is haraam is what is joined together in this manner. Otherwise this would mean that zinaa, as mentioned in the ahaadeeth, is not haraam unless it is accompanied by alcohol and the use of musical instruments. By the same token, an aayah such as the following (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, he used not to believe in Allaah, the Most Great,

And urged not on the feeding of Al‑Miskeen (the poor).”

[al-Haaqqah 69:33-34]

would imply that it is not haraam to disbelieve in Allaah unless that is accompanied by not encouraging the feeding of the poor. If it is said that the prohibition of such things one at a time is proven from other reports, the response to that is that the prohibition of musical instruments is also known from other evidence, as mentioned above. (Nayl al-Awtaar, 8/107).

Some of them said that “idle talk” does not refer to singing; the refutation of that has been mentioned above. Al-Qurtubi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: This – the view that it means singing – is the best that has been said concerning this aayah, and Ibn Mas’ood swore three times by Allaah besides Whom there is no other god, that it does refer to singing. Then he mentioned other imaams who said the same thing. Then he mentioned other views concerning the matter. Then he said: The first view is the best of all that has been said on this matter, because of the marfoo’ hadeeth, and because of the view of the Sahaabah and the Taabi’een. (Tafseer al-Qurtubi).

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him), after quoting this Tafseer, said: Al-Haakim Abu ‘Abd-Allaah said in the Tafseer of Kitaab al-Mustadrak: Let the one who is seeking this knowledge know that the Tafseer of a Sahaabi who witnessed the revelation is a hadeeth with isnaad according to the two Shaykhs (al-Bukhaari and Muslim). Elsewhere in his book, he said: In our view this hadeeth has the same strength as a marfoo’ report. Although their tafseer is still subject to further examination, it is still more readily acceptable than the tafseer of those who came after them, because they are the most knowledgeable among this ummah of what Allaah meant in his Book. It was revealed among them and they were the first people to be addressed by it. They heard the tafseer from the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) in word and in deed. And they were Arabs who understood the true meanings of (Arabic) words, so Muslims should avoid resorting to any other interpretation as much as possible.

Some of them said that singing is a form of worship if the intention is for it to help one to obey Allaah!

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: How strange! What type of faith, light, insight, guidance and knowledge can be gained from listening to tuneful verses and music in which most of what is said is haraam and deserves the wrath and punishment of Allaah and His Messenger? … How can anyone who has the least amount of insight and faith in his heart draw near to Allaah and increase his faith by enjoying something which is hated by Him, and He detests the one who says it and the one who accepts it? (Madaarij al-Saalikeen, 1/485)

Shaykh al-Islam said, discussing the state of the person who has gotten used to listening to singing: Hence you find that those who have gotten used to it and for whom it is like food and drink will never have the desire to listen to the Qur’aan or feel joy when they hear it, and they never find in listening to its verses the same feeling that they find when listening to poetry. Indeed, if they hear the Qur’aan, they hear it with an inattentive heart and talk whilst it is being recited, but if they hear whistling and clapping of hands, they lower their voices and keep still, and pay attention. (Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 11/557 ff)

Some say that music and musical instruments have the effect of softening people’s hearts and creating gentle feelings. This is not true, because it provokes physical desires and whims. If it really did what they say, it would have softened the hearts of the musicians and made their attitude and behaviour better, but most of them, as we know, are astray and behave badly.

Conclusion

Perhaps – for fair-minded and objective readers – this summary will make it clear that the view that music is permissible has no firm basis. There are no two views on this matter. So we must advise in the best manner, and then take it step by step and denounce music, if we are able to do so. We should not be deceived by the fame of a man in our own times in which the people who are truly committed to Islam have become strangers. The one who says that singing and musical instruments are permitted is simply supporting the whims of people nowadays, as if the masses were issuing fatwas and he is simply signing them! If a matter arises, they will look at the views of fuqahaa’ on this matter, then they will take the easiest view, as they claim. Then they will look for evidence, or just specious arguments which are worth no more than a lump of dead meat. How often have these people approved things in the name of sharee’ah which in fact have nothing to do with Islam!

Strive to learn your Islam from the Book of your Lord and the Sunnah of your Prophet. Do not say, So-and-so said, for you cannot learn the truth only from men. Learn the truth and then measure people against it. This should be enough for the one who controls his whims and submits himself to his Lord. May what we have written above heal the hearts of the believers and dispel the whispers in the hearts of those who are stricken with insinuating whispers. May it expose everyone who is deviating from the path of Revelation and taking the easiest options, thinking that he has come up with something which none of the earlier generations ever achieved, and speaking about Allaah without knowledge. They sought to avoid fisq (evildoing) and ended up committing bid’ah – may Allaah not bless them in it. It would have been better for them to follow the path of the believers.

And Allaah knows best. May Allaah bless and grant peace to His Messenger who made clear the path of the believers, and to his companions and those who follow them in truth until the Day of Judgement.

Summary of a paper entitled al-Darb bi’l-Nawa li man abaaha al-Ma’aazif li’l-Hawa by Shaykh Sa’d al-Deen ibn Muhammad al-Kibbi.

For more information, please see:

Al-I’laam bi Naqd Kitaab al-Halaal wa’l-Haraam, by Shaykh al-‘Allaamah Saalih ibn Fawzaan al-Fawzaan

Al-Samaa’ by Shaykh al-Islam Ibn al-Qayyim

Tahreem Aalaat al-Tarab, by Shaykh Muhammad Naasir al-Deen al-Albaani (may Allaah have mercy on him)



Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid
Reply

aadil77
09-18-2009, 11:14 PM
and this is for your slave intimacy issue

Ruling on having intercourse with a slave woman when one has a wife
Could you please clarify for me something that has been troubling me for a while. This concerns the right of a man to have sexual relations with slave girls. Is this so? If it is then is the man allowed to have relations with her as well his wife/wives. Also, is it true that a man can have sexual relations with any number of slave girls and with their own wife/wives also? I have read that Hazrat Ali had 17 slave girls and Hazrat Umar also had many. Surely if a man were allowed this freedom then this could lead to neglecting the wife's needs. Could you also tell clarify wether the wife has got any say in this matter.

Praise be to Allaah.

Islam allows a man to have intercourse with his slave woman, whether he has a wife or wives or he is not married.

A slave woman with whom a man has intercourse is known as a sariyyah (concubine) from the word sirr, which means marriage.

This is indicated by the Qur’aan and Sunnah, and this was done by the Prophets. Ibraaheem (peace be upon him) took Haajar as a concubine and she bore him Ismaa’eel (may peace be upon them all).

Our Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) also did that, as did the Sahaabah, the righteous and the scholars. The scholars are unanimously agreed on that and it is not permissible for anyone to regard it as haraam or to forbid it. Whoever regards that as haraam is a sinner who is going against the consensus of the scholars.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan girls then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three, or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or (slaves) that your right hands possess. That is nearer to prevent you from doing injustice”

[al-Nisa’ 4:3]

What is meant by “or (slaves) that your right hands possess” is slave women whom you own.
And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“O Prophet (Muhammad)! Verily, We have made lawful to you your wives, to whom you have paid their Mahr (bridal‑money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage), and those (slaves) whom your right hand possesses — whom Allaah has given to you, and the daughters of your ‘Amm (paternal uncles) and the daughters of your ‘Ammaat (paternal aunts) and the daughters of your Khaal (maternal uncles) and the daughters of your Khaalaat (maternal aunts) who migrated (from Makkah) with you, and a believing woman if she offers herself to the Prophet, and the Prophet wishes to marry her a privilege for you only, not for the (rest of) the believers. Indeed We know what We have enjoined upon them about their wives and those (slaves) whom their right hands possess, in order that there should be no difficulty on you. And Allaah is Ever Oft‑Forgiving, Most Merciful”

[al-Ahzaab 33:50]

“And those who guard their chastity (i.e. private parts from illegal sexual acts).

Except from their wives or the (women slaves) whom their right hands possess for (then) they are not blameworthy.

But whosoever seeks beyond that, then it is those who are trespassers”
[al-Ma’aarij 70:29-31]

Al-Tabari said:

Allaah says, “And those who guard their chastity” i.e., protect their private parts from doing everything that Allaah has forbidden, but they are not to blame if they do not guard their chastity from their wives or from the female slaves whom their rights hands possess.

Tafseer al-Tabari, 29/84

Ibn Katheer said:

Taking a concubine as well as a wife is permissible according to the law of Ibraaheem (peace be upon him). Ibraaheem did that with Haajar, when he took her as a concubine when he was married to Saarah.

Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 1/383

And Ibn Katheer also said:

The phrase “and those (slaves) whom your right hand possesses — whom Allaah has given to you” [al-Ahzaab 33:50] means, it is permissible for you take concubines from among those whom you seized as war booty. He took possession of Safiyyah and Juwayriyah and he freed them and married them; he took possession of Rayhaanah bint Sham’oon al-Nadariyyah and Maariyah al-Qibtiyyah, the mother of his son Ibraaheem (peace be upon them both), and they were among his concubines, may Allaah be pleased with them both.

Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 3/500

The scholars are unanimously agreed that it is permissible.

Ibn Qudaamah said:

There is no dispute (among the scholars) that it is permissible to take concubines and to have intercourse with one's slave woman, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And those who guard their chastity (i.e. private parts from illegal sexual acts).

Except from their wives or the (women slaves) whom their right hands possess for (then) they are not blameworthy.”

[al-Ma’aarij 70:29-30]

Maariyah al-Qibtiyyah was the umm walad (a slave woman who bore her master a child) of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and she was the mother of Ibraaheem, the son of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), of whom he said, “Her son set her free.” Haajar, the mother of Isma’eel (peace be upon him), was the concubine of Ibraaheem the close friend (khaleel) of the Most Merciful (peace be upon him). ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allaah be pleased with him) had a number of slave women who bore him children, to each of whom he left four hundred in his will. ‘Ali (may Allaah be pleased with him) had slave women who bore him children, as did many of the Sahaabah. ‘Ali ibn al-Husayn, al-Qaasim ibn Muhammad and Saalim ibn ‘Abd-Allaah were all born from slave mothers

Al-Mughni, 10/441

Al-Shaafa’i (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And those who guard their chastity (i.e. private parts from illegal sexual acts).

Except from their wives or the (women slaves) whom their right hands possess for (then) they are not blameworthy.”

[al-Ma’aarij 70:29-30]

The Book of Allaah indicates that the sexual relationships that are permitted are only of two types, either marriage or those (women slaves) whom one’s right hand possesses.

Al-Umm, 5/43.

The wife has no right to object to her husband owning female slaves or to his having intercourse with them.

And Allaah knows best.


Islam Q&A
Reply

ChOcCi
09-19-2009, 11:51 AM
hmm, I skimmed through both your posts adil, but im still confused, WHY is daaf allowed and why are'nt guitars allowed?

Also, we know that intimacy with slaves is allowed, but WHY?

For ALL the rules in Islam, scholars such as Dr. Zakir Naik have provided REASON and justification for them. He said that ALL rules in Islam have proper justification so thats why im asking for it..

Your intimacy with slaves thing did not actually answer my question.. it only clarified the validity of my question. Can anyone help? Do you know of any way to contact Zakir Naik or similar people??

I found that the person who writes in www.islamic-world.net writes very well too and justifies everything. He convinced me COMPLETELY about why sex before marriage is bad..

@Malik,thanks for the feedback, but the thing is, you are ABSOLUTELY right when you say that Allah knows best and his word is law and the best for us. But he DIDNT say that music is bad. Its not in the Qur'an.


And plus, if you DONT justify rules in Islam, what makes you think the Christians and Jews and Hindus will feel compelled to convert into our religion?

The people of other religion is ALREADY faithful to their Lord. If they convert into Islam BLINDLY WITHOUT knowing anything, they will betray faith so doesnt that make you a sinner? Accepting another religion without understanding? Even though you came to the right path, but it was by mistake and it could have easily gone the other way if he was muslim and he converted into a christian. So what will convince them to convert?

Yes, Logic is what will convince them. Yes, Islam IS about what Allah and his messenger has commanded us, but Islam is ALSO about Logic. EVERYTHING about Islam and EVERYTHING in Islam has logic in it. EVERYTHING. Thats what Zakir Naik teaches us.

If we follow Islam without understanding, what different are we from the christians who actually believe that Jesus is God's son and that the world is flat? They believe this due to blind faith and they dont care about logic and only go with faith.

But Allah, our lord has bestowed upon us the BEST religion that has logic behind EVERY word. THATS why MORE muslims follow Islam compared to how many christians follow christianity.. We NEED to justify everything islam to show our brothers who are following the wrong path to come to the right path.. otherwise, in their mind, they will sin if they just betray their religion and their faith in God and join Islam without any justification or logic at all. And believe me, they worship the same Allah we worship, they just dont do it in the right way. Both Muslim AND Christian prayers end up with the same Allah or God, dont you think? So, its our duty to show them the right path and ONLY with logic, we can achieve this.

Can you disagree with ANYTHING I said in the last 5 paragraphs?
Reply

ChOcCi
09-19-2009, 11:55 AM
AND there are also more atheists generating from other religions than Islam. This is because the people in the other religion sees that their religion contradicts logic, so they turn away.. Islam doesnt contradict science and thats why Muslims who KNOW islam properly, would NEVER turn away. The ones who turn away, do it without knowing. Out of ignorance.

But just because the Qur'an doesnt have any mistakes in it wont be enough to convince the Priests in Christianity to convert will it? We need that extra force which is logic to make them understand.. Im sure Allah wants us to KNOW why we follow him and WHY he told us what to do and what not to do. Thats why logic is important in religion. I hope I made my point.
Reply

Al-Yasa
09-19-2009, 12:01 PM
can explain slavery in Islam ?
Reply

ChOcCi
09-19-2009, 12:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Al-Yasa
can explain slavery in Islam ?
Although I have limited knowledge on this matter, I will try my best.


When the Qur'an was being revealed back then 1400 years ago, slavery was a common custom in EVERY household. Now, when Islam came, abolishing slavery altogether would mean that upsetting the entire ecosystem of the Arabian community which would make them vulnerable to foreign countries so it would make ALOT of people not want to accept Islam due to the fear of loss.

At that time, ALL other religions (to my knowledge) accepted slavery and did not set almost ANY limits to it. But it was Islam who came and limited slavery to such an extent that with time, slavery vanished from the middle east, ONLY due to Islam's rulings.

Now, the restrictions set upon slavery were the main cause that made slavery disappear from the middle east, but some other reasons WHY slavery was allowed are the following:

# At that time, Muslims were at war with Kaffirs (non believers) who used to do their best to make Muslims follow the wrong path.. After war was finished and the Muslims won, they did not have the permission to kill all the kaffirs as it says in the Qur'an that if a Kaffir wants peace, it is our duty to protect him / her. But even though they were allowed to live, it would be dangerous to allow the kaffirs to walk amongst the muslim trying to make them follow the wrong path, so slavery was a must to stop the kaffirs from doing wrong things and it was a way to teach them Islam was the right path.. I think there it is said that a captive of war who is your slave should be released if he / she accepts Islam although im not completely sure about it.
Basically, slavery was permitted, ONLY to protect the other muslims.

# Another reason was that when a person for example does something wrong to someone, the Islamic government had the right to make that wrongdoer become a slave to the victim as a punishment. It was one of the only ways the wrongdoer could escape SEVERE punishment from the law.

# There were also cases where when a person took a LARGE sum of money as load from a lender and if that person could not repay the loan, the law could make the person who borrowed the money to serve the lender as a slave to repay the debt. This was in extreme cases I believe.

There are also A LOT more reasons behind why slavery was allowed but I dont know all the reasons.. But if it helps, you can type in "why slavery is allowed in Islam" on google and you'll find great sites that will explain this to you.
Reply

ChOcCi
09-19-2009, 12:44 PM
@ maalik and alpha dude, since you guys told me that before I make a judgement, I should consider all cases, I then also ask the both of you to check out this link and consider the facts:

http://www.mynaraps.com/music.htm
Reply

Al-Yasa
09-19-2009, 06:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ChOcCi
Although I have limited knowledge on this matter, I will try my best.


When the Qur'an was being revealed back then 1400 years ago, slavery was a common custom in EVERY household. Now, when Islam came, abolishing slavery altogether would mean that upsetting the entire ecosystem of the Arabian community which would make them vulnerable to foreign countries so it would make ALOT of people not want to accept Islam due to the fear of loss.

At that time, ALL other religions (to my knowledge) accepted slavery and did not set almost ANY limits to it. But it was Islam who came and limited slavery to such an extent that with time, slavery vanished from the middle east, ONLY due to Islam's rulings.

Now, the restrictions set upon slavery were the main cause that made slavery disappear from the middle east, but some other reasons WHY slavery was allowed are the following:

# At that time, Muslims were at war with Kaffirs (non believers) who used to do their best to make Muslims follow the wrong path.. After war was finished and the Muslims won, they did not have the permission to kill all the kaffirs as it says in the Qur'an that if a Kaffir wants peace, it is our duty to protect him / her. But even though they were allowed to live, it would be dangerous to allow the kaffirs to walk amongst the muslim trying to make them follow the wrong path, so slavery was a must to stop the kaffirs from doing wrong things and it was a way to teach them Islam was the right path.. I think there it is said that a captive of war who is your slave should be released if he / she accepts Islam although im not completely sure about it.
Basically, slavery was permitted, ONLY to protect the other muslims.

# Another reason was that when a person for example does something wrong to someone, the Islamic government had the right to make that wrongdoer become a slave to the victim as a punishment. It was one of the only ways the wrongdoer could escape SEVERE punishment from the law.

# There were also cases where when a person took a LARGE sum of money as load from a lender and if that person could not repay the loan, the law could make the person who borrowed the money to serve the lender as a slave to repay the debt. This was in extreme cases I believe.

There are also A LOT more reasons behind why slavery was allowed but I dont know all the reasons.. But if it helps, you can type in "why slavery is allowed in Islam" on google and you'll find great sites that will explain this to you.

ahh thanks bro
Reply

Ibn Abi Ahmed
09-20-2009, 06:11 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ChOcCi
@Malik,thanks for the feedback, but the thing is, you are ABSOLUTELY right when you say that Allah knows best and his word is law and the best for us. But he DIDNT say that music is bad. Its not in the Qur'an.


And plus, if you DONT justify rules in Islam, what makes you think the Christians and Jews and Hindus will feel compelled to convert into our religion?

The people of other religion is ALREADY faithful to their Lord. If they convert into Islam BLINDLY WITHOUT knowing anything, they will betray faith so doesnt that make you a sinner? Accepting another religion without understanding? Even though you came to the right path, but it was by mistake and it could have easily gone the other way if he was muslim and he converted into a christian. So what will convince them to convert?

Yes, Logic is what will convince them. Yes, Islam IS about what Allah and his messenger has commanded us, but Islam is ALSO about Logic. EVERYTHING about Islam and EVERYTHING in Islam has logic in it. EVERYTHING. Thats what Zakir Naik teaches us.

If we follow Islam without understanding, what different are we from the christians who actually believe that Jesus is God's son and that the world is flat? They believe this due to blind faith and they dont care about logic and only go with faith.

But Allah, our lord has bestowed upon us the BEST religion that has logic behind EVERY word. THATS why MORE muslims follow Islam compared to how many christians follow christianity.. We NEED to justify everything islam to show our brothers who are following the wrong path to come to the right path.. otherwise, in their mind, they will sin if they just betray their religion and their faith in God and join Islam without any justification or logic at all. And believe me, they worship the same Allah we worship, they just dont do it in the right way. Both Muslim AND Christian prayers end up with the same Allah or God, dont you think? So, its our duty to show them the right path and ONLY with logic, we can achieve this.

Can you disagree with ANYTHING I said in the last 5 paragraphs?
:sl:

1) How to pray is not in the Qur'an either. Neither are the details of Islamic law. So the argument that 'just because it isn't in the Qur'an, I don't have to do it' doesn't stand, i.e. it's not logical. The Qur'an is not a book of religious rulings.

2) Did you even read the piece I asked you to?

3) Please listen to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VQ9U-P9Ysg
Reply

mundo
09-20-2009, 02:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Al-Yasa
can explain slavery in Islam ?
I posted something on this topic on another forum. Take a look at that.

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...t=slave&page=7
Reply

Eliphaz
09-21-2009, 06:41 PM
Chocci: before the thread is closed,

I just want to say that although I gave you that link "defending" music in Islam, my own position is moving towards all musical instruments being indeed haraam, so please do not think I am encouraging a pro-music stance. Rather I am encouraging a balanced decision, which one must look at both sides of the argument.

Just to give you perspective, I have played guitar for seven years and bass guitar for five years. I used to listen to all genres of music;, from old-school hiphop, to modern hiphop, to 'alternative', to rock, to metal, to pop music, to sufi moroccan music, to Pakistani bhangra, to folk to whatever-else-they-call-it.

At the end of the day if musical instruments are questionable then why risk it man.

I just want to say be careful how you 'validate' Islam. Just because Islam agrees with science that should not be your criteria. If science changes its stance that doesn't make Islam un-true.
Reply

ChOcCi
09-23-2009, 03:27 AM
My life sucks.. Because I made this thread, I now feel guilty everytime I listen to music and I stopped although I dont want to :(

I mean, im the type of guy who ONLY listens to the good "lyriced songs" and non of them have any "sexual" or "drug abusing" themes in them.. Plus, if I stop listening to music now, ill be totally oblivious to what my friends are talking about half of the time..



P.S anyone know of any ACTUAL scholar who can help me out with my "sex with slaves" matter? All I want is reason, thats all.
Reply

GreyKode
09-23-2009, 03:47 AM
I just want to say that although I gave you that link "defending" music in Islam, my own position is moving towards all musical instruments being indeed haraam, so please do not think I am encouraging a pro-music stance. Rather I am encouraging a balanced decision, which one must look at both sides of the argument.
Subhanallah, brother sincerely I loved your advise and I agree with it 100%, although I don't listen to music but I still consider your stance the most logical and balanced stance.
Barakallahu feek.
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GreyKode
09-23-2009, 03:59 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ChOcCi
My life sucks.. Because I made this thread, I now feel guilty everytime I listen to music and I stopped although I dont want to :(

I mean, im the type of guy who ONLY listens to the good "lyriced songs" and non of them have any "sexual" or "drug abusing" themes in them.. Plus, if I stop listening to music now, ill be totally oblivious to what my friends are talking about half of the time..



P.S anyone know of any ACTUAL scholar who can help me out with my "sex with slaves" matter? All I want is reason, thats all.
brother don't make it hard on yourself, don't stop listening to music all at once, try doing it gradually, be regular in your prayers and your studies, and step by step you'll find yourself drifting away from music, try listening to Qur'an and reading it, helping your parents, your little brothers, there are so many good activities out there that you can keep yourself busy with, and insha'allah your addiction to music will go away naturally.
When you talk with your friends you don't have to put on the grimm face and say "Music is haram", go along with them and then slowly try to change the subject, to sports, games etc.

REMEMBER: DON'T BE HARSH on yourself, stopping listening to music is step no.100 when it comes to following your deen, make sure youre fine with the main things like the 5 daily prayers, """obeying your parents""", etc.
If you stop music and forget about the main issues, you'll be in grave error "dalal mubeen"
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Muhaba
09-23-2009, 05:57 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Chocci
I accepted all other things said in Islam with a smile, but this "music is haram" and "you can have sex with your slaves without marrying" thing are the only two things that I cant stand for. How can such a thing be even allowed?
You should always look at the positive aspects. Allah gave rights to the slaves. POVs are given to the muslims who give them food, shelter, etc. Female Slaves are not raped by many soldiers (as is done by kafirs) but instead live with one owner. If the female slave has a child from her owner, he can't sell her and after his death she becomes free.

format_quote Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
I don't know too much about slave-girls, but you should be cautious when you make statements like this cos the sahaba had slave girls and the Prophet SAW said about them:

"The best of my nation is my generation then those who follow them and then those who follow them." [Saheeh Bukhari]
I always wonder, were they allowed to have relations with only one slave or as many as they wanted? Was there a limit to the number?

The Prophet (SAW) freed all his female slaves and married them except for one, Marya (R), who had been a gift from an Egyptian Christian king. The Prophet (SAW) would've married her also but Allah forbade him to marry any more women so she remained a slave. But after that the Prophet (SAW) didn't take any more female slaves, as far as i know. Why was that? Was it because there is a limit to the number of slaves a man can have marital relations with? How many female slaves did the sahaba have at a time? Anyone know?
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Foxhole
09-23-2009, 02:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ChOcCi
P.S anyone know of any ACTUAL scholar who can help me out with my "sex with slaves" matter? All I want is reason, thats all.
Countless armies have taken captured women as sex slaves throughout history. It's a time-honored motivator for warriors, and a reward for service.
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aamirsaab
09-23-2009, 04:36 PM
:sl:
Slavery has been covered time and time again. Please use the search function. Your question on music has been answered too.

I can't think of anything witty to say right now so I'll just lock the thread. With a LOL.
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