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GuestFellow
09-22-2009, 09:33 PM
US President Barack Obama has called on Israeli and Palestinian leaders to act with a "sense of urgency" in restarting stalled peace talks.

Mr Obama was speaking in New York where he was hosting tri-lateral talks between leaders from both sides.

US Middle East envoy George Mitchell later said resolving the settlement issue was not a precondition for talks.

He said "many obstacles" remained but that substantial progress had been made in resolving contentious issues.

The meeting brought Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas together for the first time since Mr Netanyahu came to office in March.

Mr Obama - who has defined peace between Israel and the Palestinians as a "national interest" of the US - first met each leader separately in what he described as "frank but productive" talks, before hosting the trilateral meeting.


“ We have substantially and significantly progressed in reducing the number of issues on which there is disagreement ”

George Mitchell


"Permanent status negotiations must begin and begin soon," he said. "It is past time to talk about starting negotiations. It is time to move forward."

In a news conference later, Mr Mitchell said the meeting had been "cordial" and at times "blunt", but that Mr Netanyau and Mr Abbas had "recognised the urgency of moving promptly".

He said that while no agreement had yet been reached on the issue of Israeli settlement building in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, there were no preconditions for talks to restart.

ANALYSIS
Jeremy Bowen, BBC Middle East editor The streets around the Waldorf Astoria Hotel, where the meetings were being were brought to a standstill by motorcades and security. Unfortunately for President Obama his hopes for the Middle East are gridlocked too. He planned to use the UN General Assembly this week to inaugurate a brand-new peace process with the aim of giving the Palestinians independence alongside Israel. But the two sides are very far apart. There is tension now in the relationship between President Obama and Prime Minister Netanyahu. This Israeli government has delivered the White House a humiliating rebuff. Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, on the other hand, is doing more or less as the US asks, but, if negotiations did begin, there are serious doubts about whether he could deliver on any deal he made.


"Our objective all along has been to re-launch meaningful final status negotiations in a context that offers the prospect of success," he said.

"We have substantially and significantly progressed in reducing the number of issues on which there is disagreement and we hope to complete that process in the near future."

Israel has repeatedly rejected US and Palestinian demands for a total freeze on settlement building.

Speaking after the talks, Mr Netanyahu said there had been a "general agreement that the peace process should resume as soon as possible with no preconditions".

Mr Abbas said he had called on Israel to respect the road map to peace and withdraw to its internationally-recognised 1967 borders.

Low expectations

Mr Obama had hoped to launch new talks at the UN General Assembly, but it appears his hopes for peace in the Middle East remain gridlocked, says the BBC's Jeremy Bowen in New York.


Prior to the meeting, the White House had been keen to play down hopes, saying it had no "grand expectations".

Israeli and Palestinian participants had also said they did not expect many concrete developments.

Israeli government secretary Zvi Herzog said the talks were "a step in the right direction", but that conditions were "not ripe for a formal re-launch of negotiations".

Last week, a senior Palestinian official suggested his side was taking part so as not to disappoint the US and that doing so did not mean a resumption of peace talks.

The negotiating process was suspended in December.

Disagreements over the settlements issue have blocked all attempts to restart the peace talks so far.

US and Palestinian negotiators have said Israel must fully halt work on the construction of settlements in the West Bank before a new round of peace talks can take place, something Israel has refused to do.

Mr Netanyahu had previously offered a temporary freeze for several months, but not in East Jerusalem or in cases where homes had already been approved.

He argues that the "natural growth" of settler families must be accommodated.

Hamas, Mr Abbas's rivals who control Gaza, condemned the talks as "cover for Israeli aggression", while Israeli settlers opposed to a settlement freeze set up a protest tent in Jerusalem.

Separately, the Israeli prime minister said he would boycott the address by Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to the UN General Assembly because of his views on the holocaust.

Also on Tuesday, an Israeli-Arab man was shot dead in the West Bank after he tried to run over Israeli soldiers, the military said.

A neighbour of the man told the Associated Press he had had no connection with armed groups and was killed "in cold blood".

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/8268095.stm
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Ummu Sufyaan
09-23-2009, 07:22 AM
:sl:
i hate it when the enemies of Islam act like they care about us :exhausted ^o)
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nocturnal
09-23-2009, 01:30 PM
This whole thing is a total farce. Abbas is putting on this facade about being resolute on the settlements issue, yet he's incalculably malleable to US manipulation. If they ask him to change his position from total freeze on settlement to their new buzzword of "restraint", he duly agress.

It is under the aegis of the PA, that israeli expansionism has grown so rapidly in the OPTs. The Israeli's like to vaunt their so called withdrawal from the Gaza Strip in 2005, yet the same people were simply reaccomodated in the fast-growing illegal settlements in the West Bank.

It's painfully obvious that this has been their strategy all along since the Six Day War. They knew that eventually, the world will clamour for final status negotiations, and they would have reached a point where further procrastination was impossible. Up until that point, the idea was evidently to frenetically expand, build settlements, stake claims to Palestinian land and then object to the idea of dismantling settlements on allegedly humanitarian grounds when the time came to finalise final status issues.

The overwhelming will of the international community is for a 2 State solution premised on Israel withdrawing to the 1967 borders, dismantling all settlements, restoring the right of return and releasing Palestinians - over 10,000 - who are incarcerated in Israeli prisons. This was emodied in the 2002 Saudi Peace Plan, and Israel knew it was a viable proposition, yet they moved swiftly to obliterate any chance of it succeeding.
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AbdullahSyed
09-23-2009, 02:43 PM
There is way to much support for the noble Palestinians who support and work with Russia an open enemy of Islam.

i hate it when the enemies of Islam act like they care about us
Hamas and the Arab world would cry a river if the enemies did not care about them.
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AbdullahSyed
09-23-2009, 02:46 PM
This was emodied in the 2002 Saudi Peace Plan, and Israel knew it was a viable proposition, yet they moved swiftly to obliterate any chance of it succeeding.
lol ofcourse they did. Why would Israel being so powerful that all the arab nations if even wanted could not defeat them surrender and back down? Saudi Arabia can take their peace plan and shove it. First, start with giving basic human rights in your own d-amn country then speak in other peoples business.
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nocturnal
09-25-2009, 03:07 PM
I don't think admonishing the Saudi Govt over its human rights record as a condition to putting forward a Middle East peace plan makes much of a difference. That is a domestic imbroglio that will go on and it is up to Saudi civic society to try and agitate for such essential reforms.
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AbdullahSyed
09-26-2009, 09:57 PM
Originally Posted by nocturnal
I don't think admonishing the Saudi Govt over its human rights record as a condition to putting forward a Middle East peace plan makes much of a difference. That is a domestic imbroglio that will go on and it is up to Saudi civic society to try and agitate for such essential reforms.
How can Saudi Arabia propose something good for someone when they cannot differentiate good from bad in their own society? I very much dislike Israel myself, But the hypocrisy among Muslims angers me more. Its okay for the Muslim countries to murder, torture, and rape their own citizen who happen to be Muslim. Yet its unacceptable behaviour when disbelievers do this to Muslims and always the worse among us try to find a poor solution.

Also, as long as Palestinian governments works with the enemies of Muslims i.e. Russia. I think we Muslims should stay clear from any involvement into the matter.
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The_Prince
09-27-2009, 03:45 AM
lol, urgency about what? what can the Arabs do when Israel says that settlements will remain, and more houses will be built??? obama needs to be urgent to stop those settlement expanions, and urgent in shutting them down once and for all.

ppl think that peace in the mid-east is hard, not really, all u have to do is close those illegal settlements down, and leave the west bank, simple.
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nocturnal
09-27-2009, 11:49 PM
Originally Posted by AbdullahSyed
How can Saudi Arabia propose something good for someone when they cannot differentiate good from bad in their own society? I very much dislike Israel myself, But the hypocrisy among Muslims angers me more. Its okay for the Muslim countries to murder, torture, and rape their own citizen who happen to be Muslim. Yet its unacceptable behaviour when disbelievers do this to Muslims and always the worse among us try to find a poor solution.

Also, as long as Palestinian governments works with the enemies of Muslims i.e. Russia. I think we Muslims should stay clear from any involvement into the matter.
I think that is a bit of an oversimplification. Im not saying Saudi society is flawed, but your posts are trying to convey the image of Saudi Arabia being a nominally Muslim country where everyone is somehow debauched and involved in the most immoral acts. That is manifestly untrue.

Nobody says that murder, torture and rape perpetrated by Muslims against Muslims or non-muslims for that matter is acceptable, and certainly not in Saudi Arabia, notwithstanding the flaws in the judiciary there. But again, there is a legal system and i think the country is governed sufficiently well to place it in a reasonable stead to voice its discontent against israeli aggression.

I don't see any merit in saying that because somehow Saudi Arabia has a questionable domestic human rights record with regards to political dissent, women's rights etc, they are in no position to undertake diplomatic offensives against a state that paractises an apartheid system of government with regard to the Palestinians, and denies them even their most basic rights enshrined under international law.
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AbdullahSyed
09-28-2009, 02:29 AM
I don't see any merit in saying that because somehow Saudi Arabia has a questionable domestic human rights record with regards to political dissent, women's rights etc, they are in no position to undertake diplomatic offensives against a state that paractises an apartheid system of government with regard to the Palestinians, and denies them even their most basic rights enshrined under international law.
\

Saudi does deny basic human rights to Non Saudis. Saudi Women have more rights then non saudis. You do not know anything about Saudi arabia. All you know is that its a Muslim country that is pretending to push for peace plan. But in reality if Saudi arabia wanted they could stop Israel overnight. Its not black and white as most Muslims believe. Saudi Arabia has way to many problems in their society to mention them all.

Nobody says that murder, torture and rape perpetrated by Muslims against Muslims or non-muslims for that matter is acceptable
Yet many Muslims will defend Saudi Arabia. Muslims stand behind countries like Iran who worked with India to kill muslims in kashmir and works with Russia. Also, recently the Palestinian government admitted to working with Russia who murders, rape, and tortures muslim women, children, and elderly. Why the double standard? Would Muslims be outraged if Kashmiri muslims decided to work with Israel? OR Chechecian Muslims decide to work with Israel? Ofcourse, we would be because they are working with the enemy yet when the same happens but its the Palestinian we need to understand why they might do that.
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nocturnal
09-28-2009, 03:41 AM
I know what you're talking about, i've been to Saudi Arabia and i've got family there too. I know the kind of exploitation foreigners are subject to in Saudi Arabia regardless of whether they are Muslim or not. That culture is dominant in the Gulf and you see it in places like Dubai where it is most startling.

Saudi Arabia cannot stop Israel overnight, although they can do alot of damage economically like that which was caused when King Faisal withdrew Saudi oil from world markets in protest at US support for Israel in the 1974 war. It needs concerted action from all the Arab and Muslim countries. A difficult proposition when you have the likes of Egypt and Jordan that have already made peace with Israel and whose leadership is in thrall of the US.

Again, im just reiterating that Saudi society is bedevilled by all sorts of problems, but the same can be said of Iran, Pakistan and indeed, even the US itself. But the Palestinian issue transcends all that, you need to grasp that. I understand your concerns about Russian atrocities in places like Chechnya, Dagestan etc but the fact that foreign minister Lavrov actually met with Khaled Meshaal is a positive. Russia is a powerful member of the quartet that does recognise that you need to negotiate with Hamas and cannot exclude it from any multilateral consultations on the Middle East issue.

What you are actually averring here is tantamount to total complacency and it just plays into the hands of the US and israel. What are you going to say next? that the Yemeni's can't condemn Israel because they are bombing Houthis in the North? that Somalis can't condemn Israel because Al Shabaab is liquidating Somali government forces in its efforts to overthrow the TFG? that Omar al Bashir can't condemn Israel because of Darfur?

If that were the case, then the US would have had absolutely no basis for any sort of engagement in the region given its own appalling domestic record with the manner in whcih immigrants there are treated for example, and with respect to draconian legislation like the Patriot Act. Where are you going to draw the line and set a precedent?

The ultimate point is this; you cannot set criteria for any nation-state to fulfil, in order for them to enjoy the privilege of condemning what is not just the subjugation of a people in their own lands, but what is in effect, a crime against humanity.
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AbdullahSyed
09-28-2009, 09:51 PM
Russia is a powerful member of the quartet that does recognise that you need to negotiate with Hamas and cannot exclude it from any multilateral consultations on the Middle East issue.
Russia does not care about Muslims. The only reason they think its great to talk with Hamas is because they want to anger America and her allies. Reality Akhi we are Muslims we believe Allah Swt is the All powerful part of our deen is Tawakul. Clearly, you are more elegant than I in your speech yet lack the proper knowledge.

Salam alykum
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S_87
09-28-2009, 10:18 PM
Originally Posted by AbdullahSyed
Russia does not care about Muslims. The only reason they think its great to talk with Hamas is because they want to anger America and her allies. Reality Akhi we are Muslims we believe Allah Swt is the All powerful part of our deen is Tawakul. Clearly, you are more elegant than I in your speech yet lack the proper knowledge.

Salam alykum
itseasy to critisize when we are in comfort but maybe if the ummah hadnt abandoned the palestinians the russia wouldnt be needed...
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AbdullahSyed
09-28-2009, 10:39 PM
Originally Posted by amani
itseasy to critisize when we are in comfort but maybe if the ummah hadnt abandoned the palestinians the russia wouldnt be needed...
Typical you understand how palestinians feel yet comeplety forget about Chencians. They are muslims too they are suffering too. Those that work with their enemies is enemies of Muslims. Since my birth everday friday prayer we make dua for palestinians and we raise money for palestinians. But after speaking with some palestinians who truly believe this is an ARAB cause I got the sense I was not needed. So lets put it in perspective its okay to kill a Chechen child to protect a Palestnian child. Yet when the opposite was to happen you and other Muslims would be the first to scream traitors. Why? Because they are arabs and the others are not? I keep hearing agian in my mosque Dua being made for Iraqis yet Afganis or somalis are not mentioned at all. Why? I support Iraqis, Afganis, Somalis, Checians, Palestnians and any Muslim country. But if the people of the country are secular or are fighting for secular cause or are working with Islams enemy to get close to victory. I do not support them regardless of who they are.
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nocturnal
09-28-2009, 10:45 PM
Originally Posted by AbdullahSyed
Russia does not care about Muslims. The only reason they think its great to talk with Hamas is because they want to anger America and her allies. Reality Akhi we are Muslims we believe Allah Swt is the All powerful part of our deen is Tawakul. Clearly, you are more elegant than I in your speech yet lack the proper knowledge.

Salam alykum
Be that as it may, at a time when the Palestinians have been deprived of the support from the one part of the world where it should be openly forthcoming; the Muslim world, in such circumstances, any support from states like Russia is welcomed. Even if they are only doing it for strategic purposes. You have to keep in mind that it is the likes of them and China that has hitherto sustained a policy of vetoing many, if not all, sanctions imposed on Iran and Sudan.

Think for a moment brother, we just witnessed the most monstrous massacres committed against the population in Gaza between December last year and January this year. When their desperate plight could have been substantially alleviated by Egypt opening the Rafah Crossing, Cairo refused to do so capitulating to US demands. That particular action, or inaction i suppose, epitomises the sad state of affairs that has left the ummah exposed to all sorts of perils.
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Rasema
09-28-2009, 10:46 PM
:sl:

This is the mistake my country made. Tito who united us all, kept all the nuclear power with the Serbs. Later, all they had to do is kill us.

I hope we learn that Kaffirs only care about themselves. They just want to see us putrified.If one fella is not evil the rest of them are and they will do anything possible to destroy us.
:wa:
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nocturnal
09-28-2009, 10:55 PM
Originally Posted by AbdullahSyed
Typical you understand how palestinians feel yet comeplety forget about Chencians. They are muslims too they are suffering too. Those that work with their enemies is enemies of Muslims. Since my birth everday friday prayer we make dua for palestinians and we raise money for palestinians. But after speaking with some palestinians who truly believe this is an ARAB cause I got the sense I was not needed. So lets put it in perspective its okay to kill a Chechen child to protect a Palestnian child. Yet when the opposite was to happen you and other Muslims would be the first to scream traitors. Why? Because they are arabs and the others are not? I keep hearing agian in my mosque Dua being made for Iraqis yet Afganis or somalis are not mentioned at all. Why? I support Iraqis, Afganis, Somalis, Checians, Palestnians and any Muslim country. But if the people of the country are secular or are fighting for secular cause or are working with Islams enemy to get close to victory. I do not support them regardless of who they are.
What happened in Chechnya was a barbaric atrocity perpetrated against the Chechnyans by Moscow, no one is denying it. And it was committed by the same leadership that still firmly governs the country today. But when you talk about putting things into perspective, they have pacified Chechnya, installed Ramzan Kadyrov who is administering it and have admittedly papered over their unforgivable past.

Palestine, in comparison, was "wiped off the map", turned into a Jewish state, we ceded Jerusalem in 1967 and now the third most sacred site in Islam has been reduced to a pitiful state. Do you have a situation in Chechnya where the people are living under an occupation, with check-points, besieged and deprived of all basic amenities to survive? do you the people of Chechnya and Dagestan uprooted and exiled for over 60 years? You have to contextualise these matters individually and not just talk of them as though they all emerged from a similar historical injustice in vague generic terms.
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AbdullahSyed
09-29-2009, 02:59 AM
Akhi as far as I see the discussion was over long time ago. You cannot prove your point so you result in using fancy vocabulary to justify your point. Gaza massacre does not justify aiding someone that kills Muslims. If you think Arab blood is worth more then non Arab then be a man and own up to it. Do not just go round and round with lame words and historic facts that do not mean anything. China kills Muslims and forced them to eat during Ramadan or took away whatever right they had. Is this happening anywhere else? Yet you want their help and applaud it. e
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nocturnal
09-29-2009, 03:25 AM
Originally Posted by AbdullahSyed
Akhi as far as I see the discussion was over long time ago. You cannot prove your point so you result in using fancy vocabulary to justify your point. Gaza massacre does not justify aiding someone that kills Muslims. If you think Arab blood is worth more then non Arab then be a man and own up to it. Do not just go round and round with lame words and historic facts that do not mean anything. China kills Muslims and forced them to eat during Ramadan or took away whatever right they had. Is this happening anywhere else? Yet you want their help and applaud it. e

I do not think that and im not going to let you make false insinuations about what im saying. I never at any point said that China and Russia were somehow the most benign nations that we should look up to. All i stated was that you were oversimplifying the situation to a point where your arguement essentially came down to "this nation or that nation killed Muslims/Separatists at this stage, therefore they are bad and we should not enlist their support in our efforts as a matter of principle". International politics is alot more intricate than you conceive of it. And if we are at a juncture where the only conceivable way of mitigating our problems is to forge strategic alliances with nations like Russia, i have no grave misgivings about that, yet you dismiss it out of hand as an act of treachery.

I guess thats where we differ on this issue.
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S_87
09-29-2009, 12:45 PM
Originally Posted by AbdullahSyed
Typical you understand how palestinians feel yet comeplety forget about Chencians. They are muslims too they are suffering too. Those that work with their enemies is enemies of Muslims. Since my birth everday friday prayer we make dua for palestinians and we raise money for palestinians. But after speaking with some palestinians who truly believe this is an ARAB cause I got the sense I was not needed. So lets put it in perspective its okay to kill a Chechen child to protect a Palestnian child. Yet when the opposite was to happen you and other Muslims would be the first to scream traitors. Why? Because they are arabs and the others are not? I keep hearing agian in my mosque Dua being made for Iraqis yet Afganis or somalis are not mentioned at all. Why? I support Iraqis, Afganis, Somalis, Checians, Palestnians and any Muslim country. But if the people of the country are secular or are fighting for secular cause or are working with Islams enemy to get close to victory. I do not support them regardless of who they are.
no its not about forgetting. its about sitting back and critisizing when we're not doing anything ourselves.
of course i feel about the those in chenchnya and their men are some of the greatest mujahids of our time. however to sit and say such and such is doing this and that, well lets ask ourselves, why? how many times and years have you heard of the leaders saying we should help the palestinians blah blah the israelis are this blah blah. how many decades? how many of us have looked in anger at the state of palestine? and what did we do? give a few $$ and get on with our lives?
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AbdullahSyed
09-29-2009, 02:39 PM
Originally Posted by amani
no its not about forgetting. its about sitting back and critisizing when we're not doing anything ourselves.
of course i feel about the those in chenchnya and their men are some of the greatest mujahids of our time. however to sit and say such and such is doing this and that, well lets ask ourselves, why? how many times and years have you heard of the leaders saying we should help the palestinians blah blah the israelis are this blah blah. how many decades? how many of us have looked in anger at the state of palestine? and what did we do? give a few $$ and get on with our lives?
Very lame response most of your sentence was made up on "blah blah blah". None of you are answering my question. Would your response be the same if Kashmiris were working with Israelis to defeat their enemies? Its a simple question the reason you avoid it and talk about the suffering of Palestinians because you know deep down that its wrong. If you are so passionate about the Palestinian cause. Why don't you go and fight? Why are you just giving lip service how others should do something as long as its not you.
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AbdullahSyed
09-29-2009, 02:45 PM
Originally Posted by nocturnal
I do not think that and im not going to let you make false insinuations about what im saying. I never at any point said that China and Russia were somehow the most benign nations that we should look up to. All i stated was that you were oversimplifying the situation to a point where your arguement essentially came down to "this nation or that nation killed Muslims/Separatists at this stage, therefore they are bad and we should not enlist their support in our efforts as a matter of principle". International politics is alot more intricate than you conceive of it. And if we are at a juncture where the only conceivable way of mitigating our problems is to forge strategic alliances with nations like Russia, i have no grave misgivings about that, yet you dismiss it out of hand as an act of treachery.

I guess thats where we differ on this issue.
If you ask any scholar who does not have Arab bias in him he/she will tell you what Palestinian government is doing is Treason in Islam. Agian, Akhi using big words does not make you right Communications 101. You do not state facts and either do you make any sense. All you do is fancy up your sentences so when others read it they assume you are right because of the vocabulary you use.
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S_87
09-29-2009, 08:08 PM
Originally Posted by AbdullahSyed
Why are you just giving lip service how others should do something as long as its not you.
why dont i? because im just like everyone else unfortunately. this is not about pointing fingers and saying its them its you its him. its about us all of us EVERY SINGLE one of us. including myself.
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nocturnal
09-29-2009, 11:20 PM
Originally Posted by AbdullahSyed
If you ask any scholar who does not have Arab bias in him he/she will tell you what Palestinian government is doing is Treason in Islam. Agian, Akhi using big words does not make you right Communications 101. You do not state facts and either do you make any sense. All you do is fancy up your sentences so when others read it they assume you are right because of the vocabulary you use.
Ok, so if a Hamas delegation meets with representatives from Russia, that according to you is treason because of Russia's record in Chechnya? is this the crux of what you're saying? Id have to disagree with that because, again, you cannot tar every single conflict that the Muslim ummah has been embroiled in with a single brush. Do you not realise brother that what you're exhorting here will only lead to more isolationism?

Why do you not then propose a viable alternative since you're so swift to denigrate any idea of emancipation through co-operation?. Are you one of these people thats just going to bellow "Jihad" without making any reasonable assessment of the prevailing political climate? Enlighten us.

You're the one who's coming up with fancy but unsubstantiated claims about how Islamic scholarship has deemed anything to do with alliances made with non-Muslim nations as treason. Tell me brother, is it not true that the sahabah were dispatched by the prophet (pbuh) to Abysinnia, (present day Ethiopia) to seek sanctuary under a righteous Christian king when they were being persecuted in Makkah? I suppose your counter-arguement will now be that Abysinnia, unlike Russia did not massacre Muslims on the colossal scale such as that of Chechnya.

I can't see how you can accuse us all of having an Arab bias, when first of all, this thread is about the Israel/Palestine conflict, and the facts surrounding the conflict are like no other in the history of the Ummah. This is the land where Al Quds - the third holiest site in Islam - is located, it has been usurped by a zionist regime that has foisted itself with firm western backing on the Palestinians, consigned them to a life of abject poverty, privation and despair, and has thoroughly destroyed and hopes of a unified Muslim response by making peace treaties with the actual traitors; the likes of Anwar Sadat and King Hussein.

As for your question about the Kashmiris colluding with Israel, ofcourse i would object to that, but you cannot in all seriousness tell me that it is a reasonable analogy to compare Kashmiri/israeli collusion with a politically unbinding and tenuous alliance between the Palestinians and Russia. It just does not make any sense.
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AbdullahSyed
09-30-2009, 01:30 AM
As for your question about the Kashmiris colluding with Israel, ofcourse i would object to that, but you cannot in all seriousness tell me that it is a reasonable analogy to compare Kashmiri/israeli collusion with a politically unbinding and tenuous alliance between the Palestinians and Russia. It just does not make any sense.
Thank you for admitting it finally. End of dicussion if you like you can claim victory now akhi. I fancy up my words akhi atleast an average Abdullah (joe) can understand what I wrote so far. Most of what you said requires a dictionary and still lacks the evidence.

why dont i? because im just like everyone else unfortunately. this is not about pointing fingers and saying its them its you its him. its about us all of us EVERY SINGLE one of us. including myself.
I am not with the Palestnian government if they work with enemies of Muslims. You are very picky when responding back to me. How about you respond back to the question sister?
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AbdullahSyed
09-30-2009, 01:38 AM
I can't see how you can accuse us all of having an Arab bias, when first of all, this thread is about the Israel/Palestine conflict, and the facts surrounding the conflict are like no other in the history of the Ummah. This is the land where Al Quds - the third holiest site in Islam - is located, it has been usurped by a zionist regime that has foisted itself with firm western backing on the Palestinians, consigned them to a life of abject poverty, privation and despair, and has thoroughly destroyed and hopes of a unified Muslim response by making peace treaties with the actual traitors; the likes of Anwar Sadat and King Hussein.
Brother I do not know if you are Arab or not. But for most of them its struggle between Jews and Arabs not Jews and Muslims. They do not want help from non arabs neither will they ask. Its a secular fight most of them. They're fighting not for Al Quds like most of us think sure the religious ones are but they are minority and hated. Al Quds has become a symbol of pride rather than a religious honour issue.
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S_87
09-30-2009, 10:43 AM
Originally Posted by AbdullahSyed


I am not with the Palestnian government if they work with enemies of Muslims. You are very picky when responding back to me. How about you respond back to the question sister?
on kashmir and israel? honestly speaking no probably not
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