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GuestFellow
09-27-2009, 11:53 AM
Israel calls for action on Iran

Israel says the disclosure that Iran is building a second nuclear enrichment facility proves it "wants to equip itself with nuclear weapons".

Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman said Israel wanted to see an "unequivocal" Western response to the development.

Tehran insists that the site, under construction near the city of Qom, is being built in line with United Nations regulations, though this is contested.

Iran says it wants atomic power only for the production of electricity.

But the new revelations have raised tension days before talks between Iran and six global powers negotiating over Tehran's atomic programme.

Meanwhile Iranian media reported that the elite Revolutionary Guards would start missile defence exercises on Sunday, in a move which seems guaranteed to increase tensions further.

'Disturbing pattern'

"The revelations of this second nuclear enrichment site... prove beyond any doubt that this country wants to equip itself with nuclear weapons," Mr Lieberman told Israeli public radio.

IRAN'S NUCLEAR SITES
Iran insists nuclear facilities are for energy, not military purposes
Bushehr: Nuclear power plant
Isfahan: Uranium conversion plant
Natanz: Uranium enrichment plant, 4,592 working centrifuges, with 3,716 more installed
Qom: Second enrichment plant, not yet operational
Arak: Heavy water plant

"We hope that an unequivocal answer is given on 1 October," he added, referring to the forthcoming talks.

"We are not surprised... because we have been saying that Iran is developing its nuclear activities for military purposes, and the facts prove it now.

The BBC's Paul Wood says Israel is now looking for tough international sanctions against Iran and hoping that Russia and China will be brought on board by news of the second facility.

In his weekly address on Saturday, US President Barack Obama said the discovery continued a disturbing pattern of evasion by Iran.

"My offer of a serious, meaningful dialogue to resolve this issue remains open," he said. "But Iran must now co-operate fully with the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), and take action to demonstrate its peaceful intentions."

On Friday, President Obama, French President Nicolas Sarkozy and British Prime Minister Gordon Brown demanded that Iran allow UN inspectors into the second site.


In response, Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said he had no problem with the plant being inspected, and denied it was "secret".

"According to IAEA rules, countries must inform the agency six months ahead of the gas injection in their uranium enrichment plants," he said. "We have done it 18 months ahead and this should be appreciated not condemned."

But the BBC's Paul Reynolds says there is a dispute about the amount of notice that Iran is required to give the IAEA before a new nuclear facility becomes operational.

In 2003, Iran agreed on what is called a Subsidiary Arrangement, under which it is required to tell the IAEA at the preliminary design stage. Iran later announced that it had repudiated this agreement, but the IAEA says that no such unilateral repudiation is allowed.

On Saturday, the chief of staff for Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said the second enrichment plant "will become operational soon".


"God willing this new plant will become operational soon and make the enemy blind," Mohammad Mohammadi Golpayegani was quoted as saying by the semi-official Fars news agency.

Also speaking on Saturday, UK Foreign Secretary David Miliband told the BBC that the UK was "100% committed" to finding a diplomatic solution to the Iran issue, but refused to rule out military action altogether.

Israel, widely held to be the only nuclear power in the Middle East, has also refused to rule out the possibility of attacking Iran's nuclear facilities.

Israel has never officially admitted having nuclear weapons, but is widely recognised to possess at least 75 warheads.
Source

: P

Ah personally I'm sick of the Western countries + Israel constant rants. They need to mind their own business.
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GuestFellow
09-27-2009, 02:48 PM
I see a 'disturbing pattern' too. A bit like when USA government was screaming Iraq has WMD...but no WMD was found. :O
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Zone Maker
09-27-2009, 03:25 PM
Only fools fall for the same trick twice.

Wslam
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GuestFellow
09-27-2009, 03:33 PM
^ Yeah it is kinda sad some people are actually falling for it...
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Trumble
09-27-2009, 04:34 PM
It's the Iranians who are doing the 'fooling', not the Israelis. Whether they actually are seriously developing nuclear weapons or not doesn't really matter; you need to look at it from the Israeli point of view, which Ahmadinejad is setting up for them, as in a theatre. What they are seeing is

a) Iran is developing nuclear facilities with the potential of producing nuclear weapons.

b) The second facility was not announced until it was discovered.

c) Co-operation with the IEAE has been sporadic

d) The Iranians, virtually as we type, are testing missile systems capable of delivering such weapons on Israel.

e) Ahmadinejad has publicity stated that the State of Israel should be destroyed.

Given those facts, the Israelis will consider they have no alternative but to attempt to destroy those nuclear facilities. That is, of course, exactly what Ahmadinejad wants them to do - they know that, but still they will consider they have no choice.

Ahmadinejad is playing a very dangerous game. He is gambling, probably with decent odds, that the US will not intervene and that the Israeli attempt will fail.
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GuestFellow
09-27-2009, 04:54 PM
Originally Posted by Trumble
a) Iran is developing nuclear facilities with the potential of producing nuclear weapons.
So what. America and Israel have WMD.

b) The second facility was not announced until it was discovered.
Why should Iran reveal their plans to anyone? What do they owe to the international community?

d) The Iranians, virtually as we type, are testing missile systems capable of delivering such weapons on Israel.
Does not Israel have weapons to attack Iran too?

e) Ahmadinejad has publicity stated that the State of Israel should be destroyed.
I assume your referring to ''Israel to be wiped off the map?'' Ironically isn't that what Israel did to Palestine...I can't seem to find Palestine on the map. :O

Watch the interview between Ahmadinejad and Larry King. The President of Iran stated he wants to see the Zionist government collapse like the way the Soviet Union collapsed.

Ahmadinejad is playing a very dangerous game. He is gambling, probably with decent odds, that the US will not intervene and that the Israeli attempt will fail.
Indeed someone is playing a very dangerous game..... : P

There is far too much speculation. I guess we have to wait and see what happens. I wonder what sanctions Obama is thinking of using...
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I<3Bush
09-27-2009, 05:31 PM
I like how people with nukes are telling others that they aren't allowed to have any lol. Make more sense please kthnx. And besides, sending a nuke to israel would surely devastate the lives of everyone living there, not just the jews..... I think people are taking this whole 'wiping israel off the map' thing a little too literally.
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GuestFellow
09-27-2009, 07:33 PM
This is what President Ahmadinejad stated.
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nocturnal
09-28-2009, 01:11 AM
Originally Posted by Guestfellow
So what. America and Israel have WMD.



Why should Iran reveal their plans to anyone? What do they owe to the international community?



Does not Israel have weapons to attack Iran too?



I assume your referring to ''Israel to be wiped off the map?'' Ironically isn't that what Israel did to Palestine...I can't seem to find Palestine on the map. :O

Watch the interview between Ahmadinejad and Larry King. The President of Iran stated he wants to see the Zionist government collapse like the way the Soviet Union collapsed.



Indeed someone is playing a very dangerous game..... : P

There is far too much speculation. I guess we have to wait and see what happens. I wonder what sanctions Obama is thinking of using...
That was a sublime response.
I just wanted to add to this arguement about nuclear capability, we're living in a world where double standards are pervasive. If we want nuclear disarmament, either everyone should denuclearise, or everyone be entitled to the technology. And lets start with israel's undisclosed nuclear stockpile.

Not only was Palestine wiped off the map, any chances of it being resotred to even less than half its historical entirety has been annihilated by relentess israeli expanisionsm in the OPTs, intransigence on the settlement issue, and unilateral murderous invasions and incursions into the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

Ahmadinejad has every right to question the foundation on which the modern israeli state was founded and its merits. Its astounding that when the most profane cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) are allowed to be published in western publications and rationalised by invoking freedom of expression, it all of a sudden turns into rabid anti-semitism and hate-mongering when Ahmadinejad invokes the same principle to question certain premises.

We then have the US, which under President Obama is traversing the world preaching political and moral rectitude within the context of demilitarisation and nuclear disarmament. This then, is the same nation that has facilitated the acquisition of a nuclear stockpile for israel, sucessfully prevented its full extent from being disclosed and it is the same US that is the only country ever in the world to use nuclear weapons on a civilian population when they utterly devastated Hiroshima and Nagasaki and wrought the kind of carnage that heralded an era where nucealr weapons actually proliferated globally.

This is the same supposed pinnacle of civilisation that has incarcerated indefinitely hundreds of people at Guantanamo Bay, many of them without access to legal assistance.

This is the same US, that has intervened in pretty much every part of the world in the name not of democracy, but the usurpation of democracy and its replacement with vicious miltary dictatorships. Grenada, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Honduras, Chile, Argentina, Vietnam, Somalia etc just to name a few.

In Afghanistan today, where the price of "freedom" is the monthly slaughter of hundreds of civilians by coalition forces, the people governing the country are the very same warlords who have presided over the drug trade and are known well to the people as nothing other than ruthless gangsters whose position has been legitimised by an unscrupulous and opportunistic American administration.
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جوري
09-28-2009, 02:18 AM
I think Iran and Israel should just have at it with each other, I am really sick of the both of them dominating the news..
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I<3Bush
09-28-2009, 12:29 PM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
I think Iran and Israel should just have at it with each other, I am really sick of the both of them dominating the news..
Yes, going at it with each other would surely take them out of the spotlight on the news channels... right :rollseyes I don't know, I guess I care too much for my families safety than to worry about what comes up in the news.
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Ummu Sufyaan
09-28-2009, 12:44 PM
i doing really know why Israel really cares for what the UN have to say, considering they bombed 3 UN schools in Gaza earlier this year...

people indeed are falling for it.
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GuestFellow
09-28-2009, 04:13 PM
Originally Posted by Umm ul-Shaheed
i doing really know why Israel really cares for what the UN have to say, considering they bombed 3 UN schools in Gaza earlier this year...

people indeed are falling for it.
Asslamu Aliakum sister.

No Western country gives a crap what Israel does no matter how many international laws they break.

When someone in America criticises Israel military action, the Zionist accuse them of being Anti-Semitic. When someone in Europe criticises Israel military action, the Zionist government bring up the holocaust.

It is a trick and they always use it.
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جوري
09-28-2009, 04:38 PM
Originally Posted by I<3Bush
Yes, going at it with each other would surely take them out of the spotlight on the news channels... right :rollseyes I don't know, I guess I care too much for my families safety than to worry about what comes up in the news.

I am pretty sure caring while watching the TV really won't change matters any.. what do you propose any of us do?

all the best
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mustafaisb
09-28-2009, 05:06 PM
Originally Posted by Trumble
It's the Iranians who are doing the 'fooling', not the Israelis. Whether they actually are seriously developing nuclear weapons or not doesn't really matter; you need to look at it from the Israeli point of view, which Ahmadinejad is setting up for them, as in a theatre. What they are seeing is

a) Iran is developing nuclear facilities with the potential of producing nuclear weapons.

b) The second facility was not announced until it was discovered.

c) Co-operation with the IEAE has been sporadic

d) The Iranians, virtually as we type, are testing missile systems capable of delivering such weapons on Israel.

e) Ahmadinejad has publicity stated that the State of Israel should be destroyed.

Given those facts, the Israelis will consider they have no alternative but to attempt to destroy those nuclear facilities. That is, of course, exactly what Ahmadinejad wants them to do - they know that, but still they will consider they have no choice.

Ahmadinejad is playing a very dangerous game. He is gambling, probably with decent odds, that the US will not intervene and that the Israeli attempt will fail.

:sl: Please get your facts straight!


In points B and C you state
(B)The second facility was not announced until it was discovered.

(c) Co-operation with the IEAE has been sporadic

Still, the accusations issuing about Iran are unaccompanied by evidence and raise at least as many question as they answer. Yet here we have, yet again, inflammatory (and, in many eyes, war-justifying) accusations made against an American Enemy, and the American establishment media seems capable of nothing other than mindlessly repeating it, asking no real questions, and doing little other than fueling the fire.

By contrast, The Washington Independent's Spencer Ackerman spent all day yesterday diligently and critically grappling with the question of whether Iran even breached any of its obligations under the NPT (he quotes an analyst with the Federation of American Scientists’ Strategic Security Program who points out out that the NPT requires notification to the IAEA no less than 6 months before a facility is operational -- which Iran plainly did -- but also notes there may be non-public Iran/IAEA agreements requiring earlier notification). Either way, everyone agrees that -- despite all the rhetoric about Iran getting caught red-handed -- it was Iran itself which notified the IAEA of this facility; the facility is far from operational; and there's no evidence that it contains or even can produce weapons-grade material. Until there's an IAEA inspection -- which Iran said it would permit -- it's impossible to know the true purpose and capabilities of this facility, which is the cause for the Chinese's skepticism and should cause skepticism among every thinking person, beginning with the American media. Can anyone point to any such skepticism anywhere? Listening to the media coverage, one would think that Iran just got caught sitting on a secret atomic bomb.

Look Trumble you have to read multiple sources to get the full story. From your post it seems as if you're repeating the israeli and american talking points about how grave a threat Iran is.

I ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO READ THE ARTICLES IN THESE LINKS TO GET THE TRUTH ABOUT THE NUCLEAR AMBITIONS OF IRAN, WHICH THE AMERICAN AND ISRAELI MEDIA WILL NOT COVER.


http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwa...ran/index.html
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2...er-surprise-2/
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwa...ies/index.html


I'm going to make a gurantee that if America continually follows its current path of attacking and threatening other countries with military action IT WILL GO BANKRUPT. In fact IT ALREADY IS BANKRUPT. Once China and the rest of the world starts slowly weaning itself off american treasuries and the U.S. dollar americans will never enjoy the current lifestyle that they currently enjoy. http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article13804.html

http://theburningplatform.com/econom...merican-empire
http://theburningplatform.com/econom...lobal-empire-1

:wa:
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mustafaisb
09-28-2009, 05:59 PM
:sl: America blinded by its own ambitions of empire can't even see what is staring them in the face.

http://dailyreckoning.com/unemployed...e-real-danger/

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=15393

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article13663.html

Come home America and first fix problems back at home before you meddle in anyone else's affairs.

:wa:
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Trumble
09-28-2009, 06:24 PM
Originally Posted by Guestfellow
So what. America and Israel have WMD.
I suggested you need to appreciate the Israeli point of view to fully grasp the issue. As the Israelis are obviously not concerned about being targeted by either their own or American nukes the point is irrelevant.

As to the 'so what?', perhaps you should ask those living in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Kuwait and Saudi. A glance at your map will show what those countries have in common, and why their inhabitants might not be enthused at the idea of an Israeli / Iranian nuclear exchange.

Why should Iran reveal their plans to anyone? What do they owe to the international community?
They are under no more obligation to reveal 'plans' than anyone else. If, though, they didn't want to reveal the existence of nuclear facilities, they should have withdrawn from the treaties that require them to do so.

And if the whole reason is peaceful nuclear power generation only, what have they to hide? Again, consider how the Israelis will view Iranian actions.

Does not Israel have weapons to attack Iran too?
They were not built for that purpose, although of course they could be used for it.

I assume your referring to ''Israel to be wiped off the map?'' Ironically isn't that what Israel did to Palestine...I can't seem to find Palestine on the map. :O
Ironic, possibly. Irrelevant in the context I am suggesting, certainly.

I am not arguing about who has a right to do what or even what the specific facts are - take note, too, mustafaisb. I am arguing that Iranian actions are intended to present a particular picture to the Israelis that forces them into a particular course of action.
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mustafaisb
09-28-2009, 07:29 PM
:sl: This is the reason Obama has stepped up the rhetoric against Iran on nuclear disarmament. Remember the world pays for oil in USD, if OPEC starts to shift away from the dollar and into some other currency or basket of currencies then america will have to pay a lot more for oil, and thus further crippling america's already tattered economy. :wa:

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/279626
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GuestFellow
09-28-2009, 08:03 PM
Originally Posted by Trumble
I suggested you need to appreciate the Israeli point of view to fully grasp the issue. As the Israelis are obviously not concerned about being targeted by either their own or American nukes the point is irrelevant.

As to the 'so what?', perhaps you should ask those living in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Kuwait and Saudi. A glance at your map will show what those countries have in common, and why their inhabitants might not be enthused at the idea of an Israeli / Iranian nuclear exchange.



They are under no more obligation to reveal 'plans' than anyone else. If, though, they didn't want to reveal the existence of nuclear facilities, they should have withdrawn from the treaties that require them to do so.

And if the whole reason is peaceful nuclear power generation only, what have they to hide? Again, consider how the Israelis will view Iranian actions.

They were not built for that purpose, although of course they could be used for it.

Ironic, possibly. Irrelevant in the context I am suggesting, certainly.

I am not arguing about who has a right to do what or even what the specific facts are - take note, too, mustafaisb. I am arguing that Iranian actions are intended to present a particular picture to the Israelis that forces them into a particular course of action.
Greetings,

Israeli's suspicions and concerns have no validity to begin with. What evidence is there to suggest that Iran is planning to attack Israel? Is there any evidence to show that Iran is planning to develop nuclear weapons. Iran is a peaceful country when it comes to international disputes. Unlike America or Israel Iran does not threaten other countries with sanctions or war when there is a dispute. Iran wants to develop nuclear energy for electricity and for the development of their own country. I do not see anything wrong with that.

Again President Ahmadinejad stated he welcomes international forces to inspect his nuclear energy facilities. This tells me they have nothing to hide. Yet again Israeli government is simply making false allegations. If there is concerns...then Western countries and Israel must begin to act civilize. They continue to demonize Iran and continue to make false allegations. Instead of overreacting all they have to do is talk to Iranians officials without threatening them with sanctions.

It is purely based on suspicion that Iran is making weapons to attack Israel. If this is the case, then where is the evidence? Every country makes weapons to defend themselves.

There is nothing that the Iranians have done wrong. It is Israel that is paranoid and bombarding the media with false allegations. They continue to claim Iran is making WMD when there is no evidence to support those claims. France, Britain and America need to take into a consideration of the Iranian civilians needs as well. Israel overreacts over anything and need to learn the world does not revolve around them!

Peace. : P
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IslamicRevival
09-28-2009, 08:26 PM
Right, I'm sick of the Israeli Zionist dog Netanyahu who thinks he can say what he wants, when he wants. Who are these swines to constantly threaten Iran? Iran should just unleash the Shahab-3 missile and bomb Israel. I am honestly sick of these pigs who act as if they own the world

To those who claim Iran are in the wrong, You are in the minority of idiots who are brainwashed by the Media, Like a puppet on a string!

Long Live Iran, Long live Hezbollah And Long Live Hamas! May they all unite and destroy the illegal, racist state of Israel and wipe them off the map!

O 1.5 billion Muslims, March towards Israel and tear down their satanic flag and liberate Palestine! May Allah SWT give us the strength to do so. Ameen
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IslamicRevival
09-28-2009, 08:50 PM
Originally Posted by Trumble
It's the Iranians who are doing the 'fooling', not the Israelis. Whether they actually are seriously developing nuclear weapons or not doesn't really matter; you need to look at it from the Israeli point of view, which Ahmadinejad is setting up for them, as in a theatre. What they are seeing is

a) Iran is developing nuclear facilities with the potential of producing nuclear weapons.

b) The second facility was not announced until it was discovered.

c) Co-operation with the IEAE has been sporadic

d) The Iranians, virtually as we type, are testing missile systems capable of delivering such weapons on Israel.

e) Ahmadinejad has publicity stated that the State of Israel should be destroyed.

Given those facts, the Israelis will consider they have no alternative but to attempt to destroy those nuclear facilities. That is, of course, exactly what Ahmadinejad wants them to do - they know that, but still they will consider they have no choice.

Ahmadinejad is playing a very dangerous game. He is gambling, probably with decent odds, that the US will not intervene and that the Israeli attempt will fail.
I agree with him! These Israeli pigs should **** off outta Palestine and go back to where they came from...Thats the sewers (Where the rats belong!)! Either that or get bombed and taken out by the mighty Iran!
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GuestFellow
09-28-2009, 08:51 PM
^ Brother calm down. ._.
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nocturnal
09-28-2009, 08:52 PM
Originally Posted by Trumble
I suggested you need to appreciate the Israeli point of view to fully grasp the issue. As the Israelis are obviously not concerned about being targeted by either their own or American nukes the point is irrelevant.

As to the 'so what?', perhaps you should ask those living in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Kuwait and Saudi. A glance at your map will show what those countries have in common, and why their inhabitants might not be enthused at the idea of an Israeli / Iranian nuclear exchange.



They are under no more obligation to reveal 'plans' than anyone else. If, though, they didn't want to reveal the existence of nuclear facilities, they should have withdrawn from the treaties that require them to do so.

And if the whole reason is peaceful nuclear power generation only, what have they to hide? Again, consider how the Israelis will view Iranian actions.



They were not built for that purpose, although of course they could be used for it.



Ironic, possibly. Irrelevant in the context I am suggesting, certainly.

I am not arguing about who has a right to do what or even what the specific facts are - take note, too, mustafaisb. I am arguing that Iranian actions are intended to present a particular picture to the Israelis that forces them into a particular course of action.

Trumble, the agreements that Iran has so far ratified with the IAEA are not technically contravened by the disclosure of this second facility at Iran. If you look at the specifics of it, Qom was not in breach of the stipulations.

You've repeatedly tried to put Iran on the defensive here and refuse to accknowlege the principle of universality with respect to this issue. Iran has gone further in its dealings with the IAEA than Israel could possibly ever go. Israel is the one nation that recently openly rejected an IAEA resolution calling on it not just to become a signatory to the NPT, but to disclose immediately the full extent of its nuclear capacity. Again, the anti-semitism card was deployed vigorously by the israeli delegation.
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IslamicRevival
09-28-2009, 08:54 PM
Originally Posted by Guestfellow
^ Brother calm down. ._.
Calm Mode: Activated :)
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I<3Bush
09-29-2009, 12:54 AM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
I am pretty sure caring while watching the TV really won't change matters any.. what do you propose any of us do?

all the best
I'm not sure I follow what you're trying to say? I was just replying to your suggestion for Iran and israel to go at it so they don't flood your precious news channels, like its nothing. I'm not trying to propose anything on anyone.
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Humbler_359
09-29-2009, 01:20 AM
:sl:

Iran has EVERY right to have Nuclear Technology and its missiles, look at example of Pakistan, we don't care what the world think. Since Pakistan became 7th Nuclear Power (in 1998), we are too busy developing our own strengths and capable to counter any future enemy. Isreal (beside India) was planning to attack Pakistan during 1998, however they backed off because we informed Jewish State, we will attack your country if you cross line.

The Day Pakistan and Israel came close to WAR


Nobody give an evil eyes on Pakistan especially neighbours (Isreal and India).
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Ramadhan
09-29-2009, 02:19 AM
Originally Posted by Trumble
They were not built for that purpose, although of course they could be used for it.
Laughing Out Loud.
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north_malaysian
09-29-2009, 02:58 AM
Originally Posted by Trumble
a) Iran is developing nuclear facilities with the potential of producing nuclear weapons.
Although no official statistics exist, it has been estimated that Israel possesses between 60 to 400 thermonuclear weapons, believed to be of Teller-Ulam design, with all strategic warheads in the megaton-range

Originally Posted by Trumble
b) The second facility was not announced until it was discovered.
Officially Israel neither confirms nor denies possessing nuclear weapons.

Originally Posted by Trumble
c) Co-operation with the IEAE has been sporadic
How many time Israel "co-operate" with IAEA? Like "none".

Originally Posted by Trumble
d) The Iranians, virtually as we type, are testing missile systems capable of delivering such weapons on Israel.
On 8 October 1973 just after the start of the Yom Kippur War, Golda Meir and her closest aides decided to put eight nuclear armed F-4s at Tel Nof Airbase on 24 hour alert and as many nuclear missile launchers at Sedot Mikha Airbase operational as possible. Seymour Hersh adds that the initial target list that night "included the Egyptian and Syrian military headquarters near Cairo and Damascus."[161] This nuclear alert was meant not only as a means of precaution, but to push the Soviets to restrain the Arab offensive and to convince the US to begin sending supplies. One later report said that a Soviet intelligence officer did warn the Egyptian chief of staff, and colleagues of US National Security Advisor Henry Kissinger said that the threat of a nuclear exchange caused him to urge for a massive Israeli resupply.[162] Hersh points out that before Israel obtained its own satellite capability, it engaged in espionage against the United States to obtain nuclear targeting information on Soviet targets

Originally Posted by Trumble
e) Ahmadinejad has publicity stated that the State of Israel should be destroyed.
Operation Opera (Hebrew: מבצע אופרה‎, Mivtza Opera, also known as Operation Babylon and Operation Ofra) was a successful surprise Israeliair strike against the IraqiOsirak nuclear reactor (French: Osirak; Iraqi: Tammuz 1) in 1981.

Israel attacked Iraqi nuclear reactor. Iran?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_...ss_destruction
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Israel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Opera
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Trumble
09-29-2009, 05:36 AM
Please, could you guys actually READ my posts if you intend to reply to them? Let me repeat;

I am not arguing about who has a right to do what or even what the specific facts are. I am arguing that Iranian actions are intended to present a particular picture to the Israelis that forces them into a particular course of action.

That would read exactly the same in red type.

naidamaar, if you believe Israel developed nuclear weapons to enable an attack on Iran then you need to pay rather more attention in history class.
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جوري
09-29-2009, 05:51 AM
Aren't the things taught in history class dictated by Israel?

Israel bans use of Palestinian term 'nakba' in textbooks

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1102099.html

all the best!
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Trumble
09-29-2009, 06:52 AM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
Aren't the things taught in history class dictated by Israel?
Not in Jakarta, I suspect.
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Ramadhan
09-29-2009, 07:08 AM
Originally Posted by Trumble
Not in Jakarta, I suspect.
Obviously we in Jakarta have access to more balanced view of world's politics.
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Amadeus85
09-29-2009, 08:34 AM
Actually I envy the Israeli state. In past in Europe jews were ussually victims, lead to death like lambs, harmless. Now they are powerful, brave but also cruel and merciless. Like romans or spartans.
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GuestFellow
09-29-2009, 09:17 AM
Originally Posted by Amadeus85
Actually I envy the Israeli state. In past in Europe jews were ussually victims, lead to death like lambs, harmless. Now they are powerful, brave but also cruel and merciless. Like romans or spartans.
I think all groups are persecuted at one point in history. Like some Black Africans were made put into slaves...

Even some Christians are still persecuted today.
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IslamicRevival
09-29-2009, 09:28 AM
Originally Posted by Amadeus85
Actually I envy the Israeli state. In past in Europe jews were ussually victims, lead to death like lambs, harmless. Now they are powerful, brave but also cruel and merciless. Like romans or spartans.
You envy a state full of murderers? How nice.

Also, you say the 'Jews' were the victims but so what, Yes it was a tragedy etc but why should Palestine pay for what Hitler did?

They are not powerful anyway, Hamas crushed them last year, Hezbollah absolutely ruined them in 2006. Both of them had limited equipment compared to the Israeli F16's etc..and even so, they forced them out of Lebanon/Gaza. If all the Muslims woke up and marched towards Israel right now, these devil Zionists would be vanished from the face of the earth and never to be seen again! And thats what you call powerful!

Israel are nobodies who think they are powerful. Give Hamas Tanks F16's, Give Hezbollah state of the art equipment and illegal phosphorous bombs and i guarantee you the Israeli devil forces (IDF) would be obliterated, leaving them to go back to the toilets where they belong
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جوري
09-29-2009, 12:24 PM
Originally Posted by Trumble
Not in Jakarta, I suspect.
well why not?
The shove it down your throat approach seems to work only on palis? there is no reason they don't go after it, every which style, it doesn't seem like a FACT, that they are even ashamed of!

all the best!
Reply

Karl
09-29-2009, 12:25 PM
Originally Posted by Troubled Soul
You envy a state full of murderers? How nice.

Also, you say the 'Jews' were the victims but so what, Yes it was a tragedy etc but why should Palestine pay for what Hitler did?

They are not powerful anyway, Hamas crushed them last year, Hezbollah absolutely ruined them in 2006. Both of them had limited equipment compared to the Israeli F16's etc..and even so, they forced them out of Lebanon/Gaza. If all the Muslims woke up and marched towards Israel right now, these devil Zionists would be vanished from the face of the earth and never to be seen again! And thats what you call powerful!

Israel are nobodies who think they are powerful. Give Hamas Tanks F16's, Give Hezbollah state of the art equipment and illegal phosphorous bombs and i guarantee you the Israeli devil forces (IDF) would be obliterated, leaving them to go back to the toilets where they belong
Israel basically rules the western world in mind and money. The head of the Zionist state is the USA and Britain so obliteration of Israel would be pointless it is just their Synagogue and USA, UK and parts of Western Europe and Australia are their homelands now. It would be like blowing up the Punjab, Uttar Pradesh and so forth to get at the Gypsies (Roma). The Zionist regime is the western world so that's why Iran is getting so much heat from them.
To liberate Palestine you would have to take out at least USA, UK and Israel...basically world war 3 would do it, but the Palestinians would probably be vaporised in the process. I think the Palestinians are either caught in a perpetual living Hell or obliteration. I can see that the only way they can thrive as a people is to get out of their homeland, be International Refugees.imsad
Reply

czgibson
09-29-2009, 12:37 PM
Greetings,

Originally Posted by Guestfellow
Ah personally I'm sick of the Western countries + Israel constant rants. They need to mind their own business.
The Israelis are worried that they're going to be attacked by Iran. Whether you think they're right or wrong, surely that is their business?

Peace
Reply

جوري
09-29-2009, 01:23 PM
^^ they are making it everyone's business when they constantly cry foul and by same token exempt themselves from the same warrants!

all the best
Reply

I<3Bush
09-29-2009, 01:39 PM
Originally Posted by Amadeus85
Actually I envy the Israeli state. In past in Europe jews were ussually victims, lead to death like lambs, harmless. Now they are powerful, brave but also cruel and merciless. Like romans or spartans.
Whats there to envy?? As far as the isreali state goes, they have influence on several great nations. I would say the only thing they are powerful at is influencing others using their history as leverage. Brave? No comment...
Reply

czgibson
09-29-2009, 01:43 PM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
^^ they are making it everyone's business when they constantly cry foul and by same token exempt themselves from the same warrants!

all the best
Yes, I'd agree with you there.

It happens sometimes! :D

Peace
Reply

I<3Bush
09-29-2009, 01:48 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,



The Israelis are worried that they're going to be attacked by Iran. Whether you think they're right or wrong, surely that is their business?

Peace
Just as it is Iran's business to have nuclear capabilities? Its unfortunate that these types of weapons exist but unfortunately this is the world we live in today.
Reply

GuestFellow
09-29-2009, 02:02 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,



The Israelis are worried that they're going to be attacked by Iran. Whether you think they're right or wrong, surely that is their business?

Peace
Hiya!

But there is no evidence to suggest Iran is going to attack Israel...
Reply

Trumble
09-29-2009, 06:04 PM
Originally Posted by I<3Bush
Just as it is Iran's business to have nuclear capabilities? Its unfortunate that these types of weapons exist but unfortunately this is the world we live in today.
The trouble with that attitude is that is as more and more countries follow suit, sooner or later, somebody will use them. And if you think about it, looking at 'the world we live in today' with the two most likely nuclear face-offs being Israel and Iran, and the already existing Pakistan and India, the majority of the dead are likely to be muslims.

The situation is totally different from the NATO and Warsaw Pact stand-off of the Cold War. If any of those had been used the consequence would have been total annihilation - which is at least one reason why they never were. But you have a different ball game when some idiot thinks that they might get away with only using a few as the other guy only has a few as well; the 'first-strike' has a rationale again.

The only solution is to get rid of nuclear weapons - all of them. A huge chance was totally squandered at the end of the Cold War but the window is still ajar, but it closes a little further with each new member of the nuclear 'club'.
Reply

GuestFellow
09-29-2009, 06:47 PM
Iran insists on 'nuclear rights'

Iran has said it is not willing to discuss its "nuclear rights" during an upcoming meeting with the five permanent UN Security Council members.

The head of the country's atomic energy body also ruled out a suspension of Iran's nuclear enrichment programme.

But Ali Akbar Salehi said he would set out when and how inspectors could view Iran's second uranium enrichment plant.

The US has demanded "immediate and unfettered access" for International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) inspectors.

Iranian representatives will meet in Geneva on Thursday for talks with the five permanent Security Council seat holders - the UK, China, France, Russia and the US - plus Germany; the so-called P+1.

Mountain site

Mr Salehi said there would be no bargaining about Iran's rights to nuclear technology and said Tehran had no plans to abandon its nuclear activities, "even for a second".

"We are not going to discuss anything related to our nuclear rights, but we can discuss about disarmament, we can discuss about non-proliferation and other general issues," he said.

“ We hope relevant countries can make efforts for the relaxation of the situation instead of doing things to the contrary ”


Jiang Yu Chinese Foreign Ministry

Iran revealed its second nuclear plant, thought to be near Qom, on 21 September.

The IAEA had requested "specific information and access to the facility as soon as possible" after receiving the letter from Tehran admitting to the existence of the plant.

Mr Salehi told the IAEA that no nuclear material had been introduced into the "new pilot fuel enrichment plant", which Tehran said was still under construction.

Tehran also said that enrichment levels would only be high enough to make nuclear fuel, not a bomb.

Mr Salehi revealed that the new facility had been positioned within a mountain, next to a military site, to protect it from attack.

Tougher sanctions


China has called for restraint ahead of the talks. A spokeswoman for the country's foreign ministry, Jiang Yu, said she hoped that there would be a "relaxation of the situation".

"We hope relevant countries can make efforts. We support the maintenance of the international non-proliferation regime and uphold the proper handling of the issue through negotiations," she said.

Her comments came amid tensions between Iran and the West that have escalated yet further in the days leading up the talks in Geneva.

Iran has test-fired a series of medium- and longer-range missiles that put Israel, parts of Europe and US bases in the Gulf within potential striking range.

The White House called the move "provocative" but Iran's foreign ministry said the tests were merely part of an annual military drill, and were not a reaction to the nuclear crisis.

Iran insists that all its nuclear facilities are for peaceful energy purposes and rejects accusations from the US and others that it is seeking a nuclear weapon.

US President Barack Obama has hinted at pursuing tougher sanctions against Tehran if progress over the crisis is not made.

Russia recently signalled it might be prepared to soften its opposition to further sanctions.

China, which is also a permanent Security Council member, has said such pressure would not be effective.
Source

Nothing good is going to come out of those sanctions. This controversy is going to spiral out of control.
Reply

mustafaisb
09-29-2009, 08:52 PM
:sl: Remember everyone the U.S. and Israel have a choice they can choose to bomb Iran over their supposed nuclear weapons production or they can work with Iran and seek comprise. The U.S. has NO COMMON SENSE Does anyone honestly think Iran would want to attack Israel? Hypothetically if Iran was to attack Israel their would be SWIFT and CATASTROPHIC CONSEQUENCES by the U.S. to the Iranian political regime. As I stated before the U.S. doesn't even have its own house in order, what are they doing meddling in Iran's or for that matter any other nation's business? What I've finally concluded is that America is a nation on the back burner it will NEVER AGAIN return to the bygone days of prominence and prosperity that it achieved post world war 2. Middle class jobs (such as manufacturing) are disappearing at a rapid rate to China, Japan, and India. A rich/poor gap has started to develop. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/US-inc...03228.html?x=0

Its education and heath care system is ineffective and expensive. The U.S. is not even ranked in top 25 for mathematical and science proficiency.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...d-science.html

The U.S. used to be #1 in manufacturing, technology, and research, but now it is slowly being taken over in just about every category by China and the other emerging markets of the world. The only thing America is good at is mass producing thousands upon thousands of weapons. It has become the arms supplier to the world and gives away many of its advanced weapons technology to israel. Americans were complacent and apathetic during the Iraq war. A war which is now without a shadow of a doubt proven to be based on FALSE INFORMATION and FALSE ALLEGATIONS OF WMD. The 1 trillion dollars spent so far on Iraq could've been used back at home to fix american health care or help the poor and their families. War seldom benefits a population, but never fails to make the few well connected politicians and defense contractors obscenely wealthy.

http://www.juancole.com/2007/06/ahma...i-semitic.html

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2009/09/29/cole/

:wa:
Reply

GuestFellow
09-29-2009, 09:10 PM
^ It would be ridiculous for America to get involved in any foreign affair issues. Isn't the Afghanistan war enough to keep the USA government preoccupied?
Reply

Blackpool
09-29-2009, 10:55 PM
I do not blame Israel for being tough against Iran. If the Iranians had the capability, they would wipe Israel out. The Israelis have every right to stand up for themselves in my opinion and I totally 100% respect that. If the Iranians developed a nuclear missile then there is no doubt that the Israelis would mess about. They would launch a strike against Iran immediately on the nuclear base and so they should.
Reply

alcurad
09-29-2009, 11:04 PM
Blackpool, the only reason Iran would make a bomb would be the threat of Israel's arsenal and threats in the first place.
why would the Iranians nuke Israel anyway? it's such a small country with an army of no more than 25 thousand, a single warhead could potentially wipe them all out, not to mention the Palestinians along with them. do you see now why Iran does not need to develop such weapons?
Reply

Humbler_359
09-29-2009, 11:48 PM
Originally Posted by Blackpool
I do not blame Israel for being tough against Iran. If the Iranians had the capability, they would wipe Israel out. The Israelis have every right to stand up for themselves in my opinion and I totally 100% respect that. If the Iranians developed a nuclear missile then there is no doubt that the Israelis would mess about. They would launch a strike against Iran immediately on the nuclear base and so they should.

Do you agree that Israel have every right to occupy Palestine and killed innocent people (ie. Gaza) and expand settlements illegally?
Reply

GuestFellow
09-30-2009, 05:56 AM
Originally Posted by Blackpool
I do not blame Israel for being tough against Iran. If the Iranians had the capability, they would wipe Israel out. The Israelis have every right to stand up for themselves in my opinion and I totally 100% respect that. If the Iranians developed a nuclear missile then there is no doubt that the Israelis would mess about. They would launch a strike against Iran immediately on the nuclear base and so they should.
Iran has nothing to gain from building nuclear weapons for a start. They just want to develop nuclear energy for the development of their own country. Iran would not use nuclear weapons to attack Israel. They are not stupid. If they were to attack Israel with nuclear weapons then it will kill not just Israelis but Palestians as well. It will even affect the Holy cities too.

If you’re talking about President Ahmadinejad and what he said ''Israel has to be wiped off the map'' he meant that he wants to see the Zionist government collapse like how the Soviet Union collapsed.

I do get the feeling it would be Israel who will attack Iran first for no credible reason.
Reply

GuestFellow
10-21-2009, 06:28 PM
Iran faces key deadline in nuclear talks

^ Click on the link above to read the rest of the article.

Meanwhile, a British nuclear expert fell to his death from the 17th floor of the United Nations offices in Vienna yesterday. Police and UN spokesmen said there were no suspicious circumstances in the death of the man, who has not been named, or any other person involved.
I find it strange that people related to Iran nuclear energy programme somehow drop dead or get kidnapped.
Reply

Argamemnon
10-21-2009, 08:14 PM
Originally Posted by alcurad
why would the Iranians nuke Israel anyway? it's such a small country with an army of no more than 25 thousand, a single warhead could potentially wipe them all out
They have over 600,000 soldiers.
Reply

Argamemnon
10-21-2009, 08:16 PM
I call for action on Israel. Turkey, Iran, Egypt and Saudi Arabia should go nuclear, and the combined forces of Pakistan, Turkey, Iran, Egypt and Saudi Arabia should issue an ultimatum; retreat to pre-1967borders, or we will carry out military action. This would be possible within a few decades, if we worked together. Nobody could attack and defeat these combined forces.
Reply

The_Prince
10-21-2009, 08:51 PM
Originally Posted by Trumble
It's the Iranians who are doing the 'fooling', not the Israelis. Whether they actually are seriously developing nuclear weapons or not doesn't really matter; you need to look at it from the Israeli point of view, which Ahmadinejad is setting up for them, as in a theatre. What they are seeing is

a) Iran is developing nuclear facilities with the potential of producing nuclear weapons.

b) The second facility was not announced until it was discovered.

c) Co-operation with the IEAE has been sporadic

d) The Iranians, virtually as we type, are testing missile systems capable of delivering such weapons on Israel.

e) Ahmadinejad has publicity stated that the State of Israel should be destroyed.

Given those facts, the Israelis will consider they have no alternative but to attempt to destroy those nuclear facilities. That is, of course, exactly what Ahmadinejad wants them to do - they know that, but still they will consider they have no choice.

Ahmadinejad is playing a very dangerous game. He is gambling, probably with decent odds, that the US will not intervene and that the Israeli attempt will fail.
bla bla bla.

so iran has has nuclear facitilies that COULD make bombs, but no proof their actually using those facilities to make bombs. many other countries, such as japan, have the same facitilies.

but there you go folks, this is how the israeli-american neocon apologists work, ohhhhhh this place has the POTENTIAL to make a bomb so therefore we must go to war, not because theres proof of ppl making a bomb, but just because it could be used to make a bomb we will go make war and destroy an entire country and plunge that area into more disaster.

as for the second facility, actually the facts say the iranians gave the info before they found out about the place, and so what, lets assume your right, it makes perfect sense for iranians to keep their facilities secret as you MANIACS WANT TO BOMB THOSE FACILITIES. so what should the iranians do? advertize their nuclear facilities which they use for civilan energy, the same ones you freaks want to bomb?

as for ahmed saying he wants to destroy Israel, actually he never said he wants to destoy Israel, he has said Israels time will come. how many provocative statements have the Israelis made? so let me get this straight, Israel and America bomb and destroy countries, killing THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS, while the iranian president just says Israel will be destroyed,AND THEN IRAN BECOMES THE BAD GUY? hahaha this is the mind of an Israeli apologist ppl, Israel kills, makes wars, steals land, and Iran is the threat for making mere STATEMENTS.

as for iranians testing missiles, so what? lol you MUPPET Israel and America are about to have the largest war excerize, and are always testing missiles, america has missile systems that can target every country on this planet, and israel has countless of missile systems that can target iran. so let me get this straight you muppet, America and Israel can make several missile tests and new missile systems, but when the Iranians do such a thing then it becomes a bad thing? tell me do you enjoy being such a hypocrite or are you so evil this just comes naturally for you?

as for coperation with the IEAE, how about you tell us about Israels coperation with nuclear agencies, especially with the IEAE which is NILL. Israel keeps all of its nuclear facitilies secret, and says nothing, why dont you hypocrites complain of that? furthermore you lying muppet, the IAEA have openly come out praising Iran for coperating, and they have openly stated that they see NO PROOF THAT IRAN IS MAKING A BOMB, did you forget that part you liar?

so in conclusion, you have just been smoked, your a hypocrite, and a liar, but then again thats what one has to do when they become an apologist for Israel and neocon policies.
Reply

zakirs
10-22-2009, 01:15 PM
Personally i am sick of hypocrite countries.

Why did US attack on Iraq on basis of opression and WMD but nor Israel which qualifies for both the reasons?

Why do people blame Palestine for attacks when Israel should be blamed for occupation

Why do US and UK always poke in others foreign policies when they should concentrate on keeping their house in order.(thank you us for you economic crisis)

I just vent out my frustration here.

TGIA

Thank god i live in asia
Reply

Karl
10-23-2009, 02:26 AM
Originally Posted by zakirs
Personally i am sick of hypocrite countries.

Why did US attack on Iraq on basis of opression and WMD but nor Israel which qualifies for both the reasons?

Why do people blame Palestine for attacks when Israel should be blamed for occupation

Why do US and UK always poke in others foreign policies when they should concentrate on keeping their house in order.(thank you us for you economic crisis)

I just vent out my frustration here.

TGIA

Thank god i live in asia
The US and UK is in the process of assimilating India through it's NGOs and Aid packages (bribes). They rule from afar. Because India is a Democracy(which the West set up) and the majority of Indians are simple farmers, they can be easily manipulated to vote for the Party which is in the interests of the Anglosphere.
When I was in Behar I was speaking to a local man who bemoaned the fact that everything in India, the infrastructure etc was to serve the West. That Indians where still really under the British Raj as the Government was corrupt.
Take a hard look at India, it's culture is slipping away. It's more like USA every day. Many aspects of both Hindu and Islamic traditions have been outlawed by the command of Britain and the US.
India needs a revolution like Iran needed a revolution against it's pro Western puppet Shah.
Reply

zakirs
10-23-2009, 03:30 PM
The US and UK is in the process of assimilating India through it's NGOs and Aid packages (bribes). They rule from afar. Because India is a Democracy(which the West set up) and the majority of Indians are simple farmers, they can be easily manipulated to vote for the Party which is in the interests of the Anglosphere.
When I was in Behar I was speaking to a local man who bemoaned the fact that everything in India, the infrastructure etc was to serve the West. That Indians where still really under the British Raj as the Government was corrupt.
Take a hard look at India, it's culture is slipping away. It's more like USA every day. Many aspects of both Hindu and Islamic traditions have been outlawed by the command of Britain and the US.
India needs a revolution like Iran needed a revolution against it's pro Western puppet Shah.


LOL , i live in India.. I disagree with your post.
Reply

Argamemnon
10-23-2009, 08:18 PM
Originally Posted by zakirs
LOL , i live in India.. I disagree with your post.
Salam brother,

Could you tell us more about Indian society, are they not westernizing?
Reply

Pygoscelis
10-23-2009, 09:35 PM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
^^ they are making it everyone's business when they constantly cry foul and by same token exempt themselves from the same warrants!

all the best
Everybody note this date on your calendars. I actually agree with Skye on something.

And Trumble, as far as countries pushing other countries into action, I very much doubt that Iran would be interested in nuclear arms if not for the way the USA and Israel regard Iran. Iran would be very foolish not to try to develop nuclear arms. It is the only proven deterrent against US aggression. Iran is the third member of the "Axis of Evil". A mere glance at how the other two members were dealt with shows Iran what it needs to do.
Reply

alcurad
10-23-2009, 10:00 PM
Friday, October 23, 2009 :-

the world moves on, a repeat of 'Osirak' is not possible.
Reply

Karl
10-24-2009, 03:15 AM
Originally Posted by zakirs
LOL , i live in India.. I disagree with your post.
It's no laughing matter that India is a loyal servant to the US and UK which uses it as a cheap labour force and imposes Western laws upon it. Parents can no longer even raise their very OWN offspring as they see fit, e.g. the state imposes coerced education, over regulated socialist agendas and social engineering geared to suit contemporary Western mentalities etc etc. India is like the Philipines and Japan that thinks USA is God and prostrates to the Americans. That's why they get the carrot instead of the stick which Iran and North Korea get for their disobedience. So many Indians (and Pakistanis)wear blue jeans and t- shirts with USA written on them in the sweltering heat where Indian clothing would be far more practical. They are even bleaching their skin to be as white as they can 'cos they're ashamed of being Indians. They even listen to that vile US and UK pop music. But no matter how hard they try they will NEVER be Anglo Americans. Don't get me wrong, I love India, but I hate the occidental transformation that's going on there. And a lot of older generation Indians agree with me too.

Btw, what part of my post do you disagree with?
Reply

GuestFellow
10-26-2009, 12:27 AM
UN team 'sees Iran nuclear site'

^ Click on the link to read the article.
Reply

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