On Meditation

[indian]

Hi friends ,
I am new to this forum. I am from India.
I would like to share my experience of meditation with you guys. Few months back, while meditating I was able to see the cosmic form of Shiv in which he created the universe.(Also known as Natraj) . Then i saw goddess kali.

It was few months back and I did not get enough time to meditate since then. In this period , i met a few other guys who have had wonderful experiences in meditation. One of the guys can see shiva and parvati(Shiva's wife ) talking to each other. One more guy , Vijay kumar has seen Christ and Mahavir while meditating. Also at a function at a gurudwara, I heard the granthi saying that guru nanak dev ji and guru arjun dev ji(the fifth sikh guru) can be seen by recitation of the mool mantra.
What does Islam say about meditation.

[Ramadhan]

We have more superior form of meditation, which is called "shalat", which we perform 5 (five) times a day.

shalat is not just an "empty" form of meditation like what you have in Hindu.
In shalat, not only we meditate (with utmost concentration), but we also perform types of body movements with health benefits (like yoga), but the core of shalat is that we submit to Allah the One and Only God and praises Him. In shalat we also pray, ask forgiveness and make du'as.

So you see that our meditation is not just an empty act where we hallucinate ourselves into thinking we see someone with a thousand arms with his wife sitting on a cow.

[indian]

How can millions have the same hallucination.
I probably did not know about natraj before seeing it myself while meditating. It was after seeing it that i researched about it on the internet. I was realy surprised to see the images of natraj idols on internet. They were exactly the same shape and size as i saw while meditating. Then i started wondering what's the basis of banning idol worship in Islam. Were the islamic priests not aware of this "Darshan" phenomenon while framing that rule.

[Ramadhan]

indian, if you want to be more effective communicating your ideas/opinions here, first you need to explain to us all those hindu terms.
You see, you are writing on Islamic Board discussion forums, that means most of us either don't understand/never heard about those hindu words, and even if they know the meanings, chance is they don't give a slightest bit of interest.

Islam bans idol worships, because we must only worship God.
And there is no God but Allah.
Now think critically for yourself, what can a statue of half elephant-half man do for you?
can he give sustenance? did he create you?
and if you destroy that half elephant-half man, he's unable to defend himself, can he?

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[_ALI_]

Salam indian

How can millions have the same hallucination.

Did millions have the same hallucination (Can you give a source of this info)? And out of these millions, had each and every one never seen the idol they were hallucinating of?

It was after seeing it that i researched about it on the internet. I was realy surprised to see the images of natraj idols on internet. They were exactly the same shape and size as i saw while meditating. Then i started wondering what's the basis of banning idol worship in Islam. Were the islamic priests not aware of this "Darshan" phenomenon while framing that rule.

What is "Darshan" phenomenon? Like naidamar said, you have to tell us what you mean by these Hindu terms. And even Hindu scriptures, along with Quran, criticize idol worship

The following verses from the Yajurveda
"na tasya pratima asti
"There is no image of Him."
[Yajurveda 32:3]

"shudhama poapvidham"
"He is bodyless and pure."
[Yajurveda 40:8]

"Andhatama pravishanti ye asambhuti mupaste"
"They enter darkness, those who worship the natural elements" (Air, Water, Fire, etc.). "They sink deeper in darkness, those who worship sambhuti."
[Yajurveda 40:9]

Sambhuti means created things, for example table, chair, idol, etc.
Describing Almighty God in anthropomorphic terms also goes against the following verse of Yajurveda:

"Na tasya Pratima asti"
"There is no image of Him."
[Yajurveda 32:3]
The following verse from the Rigveda Book 8, hymn 1, verse 1 refer to the Unity and Glory of the Supreme Being:

"Ma cid anyad vi sansata sakhayo ma rishanyata"
"O friends, do not worship anybody but Him, the Divine One. Praise Him alone."
[Rigveda 8:1:1]
We should not worship anything no man, no idol, except Him according to the verse given above. So why do Hindus worship idols?
Peace

[Snowflake]

I'd be seriously worried if I started having visions about Kali who needs to be appeased through human sacrifice :-\

If the goddess were to grant Khudu Karmakar the awesome powers he expected from a virgin's death, the victim had to be willing, had to know what was happening, watch the knife, and not stop it. But even tranquilizers couldn't lull 15-year-old Manju Kumari to her fate. In his police confession, Karmakar says his wife, daughter and three accomplices had to gag Manju and pin her down on the earthen floor before the shrine. In ritual order, Karmakar wafted incense over her, tore off her blue skirt and pink T shirt, shaved her, sprinkled her with holy water from the Ganges and rubbed her with cooking fat. Then chanting mantras to the "mother" goddess Kali, he sawed off Manju's hands, breasts and left foot, placing the body parts in front of a photograph of a blood-soaked Kali idol. Police say the arcs of blood on the walls suggest Manju bled to death in minutes.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...322673,00.html

[indian]

Salam indian

Did millions have the same hallucination (Can you give a source of this info)? And out of these millions, had each and every one never seen the idol they were hallucinating of?

What is "Darshan" phenomenon? Like naidamar said, you have to tell us what you mean by these Hindu terms. And even Hindu scriptures, along with Quran, criticize idol worship

The following verses from the Yajurveda
"na tasya pratima asti
"There is no image of Him."
[Yajurveda 32:3]

"shudhama poapvidham"
"He is bodyless and pure."
[Yajurveda 40:8]

"Andhatama pravishanti ye asambhuti mupaste"
"They enter darkness, those who worship the natural elements" (Air, Water, Fire, etc.). "They sink deeper in darkness, those who worship sambhuti."
[Yajurveda 40:9]

Sambhuti means created things, for example table, chair, idol, etc.
Describing Almighty God in anthropomorphic terms also goes against the following verse of Yajurveda:

"Na tasya Pratima asti"
"There is no image of Him."
[Yajurveda 32:3]
The following verse from the Rigveda Book 8, hymn 1, verse 1 refer to the Unity and Glory of the Supreme Being:

"Ma cid anyad vi sansata sakhayo ma rishanyata"
"O friends, do not worship anybody but Him, the Divine One. Praise Him alone."
[Rigveda 8:1:1]
We should not worship anything no man, no idol, except Him according to the verse given above. So why do Hindus worship idols?
Peace

"darshan phenomenon is seeing the deities, listening to them talking and even communicating to them and asking you problems and taking help " while in deep meditation by the use of mantras(naam). "
The shapeless ,(Nirgun rup) form of god can be reached in a similar way as these deities by the recitation of "aum " mantra.
Infact these deities have become one with the god. Even christ is one of them.

[indian]

And i would also like to tell what's the ultimate goal in any hindu's life.

It is to achieve "paramgati". That is oneness with god.

_Ali_ if you have any doubts, then you can read the "kaivalya Upanishad" . It is a part of the "Yajurveda".

[Cabdullahi]

brother indian from bombay city i am fascinated by this stuff, how do i meditate to see my future wife and if shes a loud mouth how quick can i abort the mediation?

[indian]

[QUOTE=Abdullahii;1226427]brother indian from bombay city i am fascinated by this stuff, how do i meditate to see my future wife and if shes a loud mouth how quick can i abort the mediation?[/Q UOTE]

lol....
dude meditation is just one way of reaching god. If you have firm belief in allah, he will show his form to you himself. It is he who does everything, we are only puppets.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Welcome to the forum, indian. :)

It's very interesting to hear your thoughts on meditation. What do you think causes devotees to see aspects of god in deep meditation?

Peace

[Charzhino]

Salam indian

Did millions have the same hallucination (Can you give a source of this info)? And out of these millions, had each and every one never seen the idol they were hallucinating of?

What is "Darshan" phenomenon? Like naidamar said, you have to tell us what you mean by these Hindu terms. And even Hindu scriptures, along with Quran, criticize idol worship

The following verses from the Yajurveda
"na tasya pratima asti
"There is no image of Him."
[Yajurveda 32:3]

"shudhama poapvidham"
"He is bodyless and pure."
[Yajurveda 40:8]

"Andhatama pravishanti ye asambhuti mupaste"
"They enter darkness, those who worship the natural elements" (Air, Water, Fire, etc.). "They sink deeper in darkness, those who worship sambhuti."
[Yajurveda 40:9]

Sambhuti means created things, for example table, chair, idol, etc.
Describing Almighty God in anthropomorphic terms also goes against the following verse of Yajurveda:

"Na tasya Pratima asti"
"There is no image of Him."
[Yajurveda 32:3]
The following verse from the Rigveda Book 8, hymn 1, verse 1 refer to the Unity and Glory of the Supreme Being:

"Ma cid anyad vi sansata sakhayo ma rishanyata"
"O friends, do not worship anybody but Him, the Divine One. Praise Him alone."
[Rigveda 8:1:1]
We should not worship anything no man, no idol, except Him according to the verse given above. So why do Hindus worship idols?
Peace

The verses say that the true nature of God is attributless without image. This can only be realised when a person gets rid of the influence of Maya completley, otherwise he is in the pragmatic state where he only see's Brahman (the Supreme creator) as Ishwara on earth, in which he manifests into millions of forms. The Yajur Veda doesn't condemn idol worship, it simply states that it will not fulfil your eventual desire to realise the true nature of God.

[Ramadhan]

The verses say that the true nature of God is attributless without image. This can only be realised when a person gets rid of the influence of Maya completley, otherwise he is in the pragmatic state where he only see's Brahman (the Supreme creator) as Ishwara on earth, in which he manifests into millions of forms. The Yajur Veda doesn't condemn idol worship, it simply states that it will not fulfil your eventual desire to realise the true nature of God.

It must be tough for Hindu to realise true nature of God, which is without image, when they built millions of statues everywhere around them that are attributed to god, some have many arms and some sit on a cow and some have elephant head, and worship them.

[indian]

It must be tough for Hindu to realise true nature of God, which is without image, when they built millions of statues everywhere around them that are attributed to god, some have many arms and some sit on a cow and some have elephant head, and worship them.

But what i want to say is that these statutes are not built out of imagination like the greek gods zeus etc. "Krishna" has 1000 arms / 1000 heads in his form. Similarly , shiv sits on a cow "nandi" . "Ganesha" has an elephant head. These forms can be seen while meditating or in pure belief and then have been carved into statues.

[Gubbleknucker]

Running is my meditation. Whenever I need to clear my head, I go for a jog.
It's quite refreshing.

What do you think causes devotees to see aspects of god in deep meditation?

I've never seen anything resembling any kind of god, probably because I didn't expect to.

My father does the whole deep-breathing-clear-your-mind-close-your-eyes-and-sit-still meditation, and he's never seen anything, either.

If you give people the suggestion, I'm sure that most will see their chosen deity when they are told that they will.
There are people who honestly feel connected to Jesus when they speak in tongues or whatever it is they do.

we are only puppets.

Eeep. I hope not.

[Ramadhan]

But what i want to say is that these statutes are not built out of imagination like the greek gods zeus etc. "Krishna" has 1000 arms / 1000 heads in his form. Similarly , shiv sits on a cow "nandi" . "Ganesha" has an elephant head. These forms can be seen while meditating or in pure belief and then have been carved into statues.

Okaayy......

[indian]

Running is my meditation. Whenever I need to clear my head, I go for a jog.
It's quite refreshing.



I've never seen anything resembling any kind of god, probably because I didn't expect to.

My father does the whole deep-breathing-clear-your-mind-close-your-eyes-and-sit-still meditation, and he's never seen anything, either.

If you give people the suggestion, I'm sure that most will see their chosen deity when they are told that they will.
There are people who honestly feel connected to Jesus when they speak in tongues or whatever it is they do.



Eeep. I hope not.

Who is your dad's guru??? I think he is not taking proper guidance. Mediation has nothing to do with "deep-breathing-clear-your-mind-close-your-eyes-and-sit-still" .
Proper meditation has many forms like nam japna, dhyan, samadhi , awakening of kundlini etc. But sometimes it is confused with sitting idle without thinking anything , closed eyes erect posture etc which is wrong.

[Charzhino]

It must be tough for Hindu to realise true nature of God, which is without image, when they built millions of statues everywhere around them that are attributed to god, some have many arms and some sit on a cow and some have elephant head, and worship them.

The supreme God Brahaman in it's absolute form is attributless and impersonal. Brahman is a non-personal concept of God, not the personal, and one must realise Brahman as it is not possible to worship an impersonal God as such an enitity has no attributes in absolute terms. This is where Ganesha and other ideas and forms of a personal God come into play so that they can create a centre point for believers to worship

[Gubbleknucker]

Who is your dad's guru??? I think he is not taking proper guidance. Mediation has nothing to do with "deep-breathing-clear-your-mind-close-your-eyes-and-sit-still"

I don't know what he does, I just know that he meditates an hour a day and has loads of books on the subject.

[Ramadhan]

The supreme God Brahaman in it's absolute form is attributless and impersonal. Brahman is a non-personal concept of God, not the personal, and one must realise Brahman as it is not possible to worship an impersonal God as such an enitity has no attributes in absolute terms. This is where Ganesha and other ideas and forms of a personal God come into play so that they can create a centre point for believers to worship

Sounds very similar to Christianity.

[Charzhino]

Sounds very similar to Christianity.

How so? The only thing that Christianity has in common with Hinduism is perhaps that God can incarnate as man, although the perception of this in both religions is different.

[Ramadhan]

well, christians especially roman catholic church have all these statues, images and likeness of jesus pbuh, maryaam, saints etc
in Hindu you have all statues of brahma, siva, wishnu, indra, krisna, ganesh, etc

[_ALI_]

Salam Charzhino

The verses say that the true nature of God is attributless without image. This can only be realised when a person gets rid of the influence of Maya completley, otherwise he is in the pragmatic state where he only see's Brahman (the Supreme creator) as Ishwara on earth, in which he manifests into millions of forms. The Yajur Veda doesn't condemn idol worship, it simply states that it will not fulfil your eventual desire to realise the true nature of God.

You say that Yajur Veda doesn't condemn idol worship. What about this verse
"Andhatama pravishanti ye asambhuti mupaste"
"They enter darkness, those who worship the natural elements" (Air, Water, Fire, etc.). "They sink deeper in darkness, those who worship sambhuti."
[Yajurveda 40:9]
Sambhuti means created things, for example table, chair, idol, etc. If Yajurveda says that idol worshippers are in darkness, isn't that condemning idol worship?
So my simple question is this. If Hindu scriptures are against idol worship, why do Hindus worship idols?
Peace

[indian]

The same Yajurveda has "aawahan mantras" of Rudra, Indra, Vishnu and other deities. You must check properly . And believe me, In india nobody worships the natural elements like Air, water , Fire etc.

[indian]

And secondly, the english translation of the "vedas" does not give you the correct meaning of what is meant by the hymns. I studied sanskrit till high school was one of the toppers in CBSE in sanskrit. Still it's hard for me to understand these hymns of vedas. Only someone like a brahmin born to serve god in banaras or kashi who has been trained since birth in vedas can tell the correct meaning. It's highly improbable that an english author knew the meaning and translated it correctly . Partly because the indian concept of god does not appeal to a westerner's perception of god.
So, i advice against reading the vedas in english by an english author. There is one source where i found some correct translations of vedas by a brahmin .
http://www.hindutemple.ca/Brahma%20Vidya.htm

[glo]

How so? The only thing that Christianity has in common with Hinduism is perhaps that God can incarnate as man, although the perception of this in both religions is different.

Hi Charzhino

I hope it doesn't take this thread off topic too much, but I would be interested to know what (if anything) Hinduism makes of Jesus.
Can you tell me? (Via PM if you prefer - once you have 50 posts, that is ...)

[Charzhino]

Salam Charzhino

You say that Yajur Veda doesn't condemn idol worship. What about this verse
"Andhatama pravishanti ye asambhuti mupaste"
"They enter darkness, those who worship the natural elements" (Air, Water, Fire, etc.). "They sink deeper in darkness, those who worship sambhuti."
[Yajurveda 40:9]
Sambhuti means created things, for example table, chair, idol, etc. If Yajurveda says that idol worshippers are in darkness, isn't that condemning idol worship?
So my simple question is this. If Hindu scriptures are against idol worship, why do Hindus worship idols?
Peace

That is referring to the people who actually think that they are worshipping the idol itself. Many go astray thinking that the idols will save them and that they are god themselves, but not realise that it's just an illusion, the idols simply represent a characterstic of Gods true nature. And as indian said, other parts of the YagurVeda deal with these other dieties.

So in answer to your question, idol worship isn't agaisnt the Vedas, but getting too attached to them and thinking they are physically god themsleves is where the delusion appears.

[Charzhino]

well, christians especially roman catholic church have all these statues, images and likeness of jesus pbuh, maryaam, saints etc
in Hindu you have all statues of brahma, siva, wishnu, indra, krisna, ganesh, etc

Yes that is true, but they don't really worship the paintings of the saints, etc they are just present for a reminder I guess.

[Charzhino]

Hi Charzhino

I hope it doesn't take this thread off topic too much, but I would be interested to know what (if anything) Hinduism makes of Jesus.
Can you tell me? (Via PM if you prefer - once you have 50 posts, that is ...)

Sure, just 2 more posts!!!

[indian]

Hi Charzhino

I hope it doesn't take this thread off topic too much, but I would be interested to know what (if anything) Hinduism makes of Jesus.
Can you tell me? (Via PM if you prefer - once you have 50 posts, that is ...)

Hey dude.... what do you know about this "jyoti" of light, of the size of half a thumb which u are using in avatar. I am interested in knowing. Or is it just for fun that you are using it.??? Some of my mates say that this is the final form of god but i haven't encountered it yet.

[glo]

Hey dude.... what do you know about this "jyoti" of light, of the size of half a thumb which u are using in avatar. I am interested in knowing. Or is it just for fun that you are using it.??? Some of my mates say that this is the final form of god but i haven't encountered it yet.

A "jyoti" of light? Final form of god???
What do you mean by that?

I always just took it to be a glowing candle light. No more, no less. :)

[MuslimCONVERT]

My reaction to visions and so on which occur during hindu, buddhist, etc. meditations is similiar to my reaction to new age spirituality. It is spiritual experiences in "free form" i.e. it is a blind guide, a mix of emotional responses, spiritual responses, and subconscious mental responses and the one experiencing these things is unable to decipher which of the three is actually happening.

There must be a Sacred Law that focuses on real spiritual tranquility that lasts, not just sporadic visions and emotional responses to stimuli. The human being must also have a spirit of humility and submission to be able to surrender his/herself to Sacred Law. Many people's concept of God might be accurate because they are rational and logical, but they cannot be humble and submit to a truth that contradicts certain values they have developed. On the same token, someone may just indulge in "vague spirituality" but they do not reason, they think too much in the abstract, and as a result their beliefs are just a set of emotional/spiritual/mental responses to certain stimuli, rather than something firmly grounded in truth.

In Islam we must have both. We must have the iman [confirmation] of faith, and the experience of faith.

[Rabi'ya]

How can millions have the same hallucination.

this seems quite easy for me to explain. I think that you see idols of these "gods" each and every day. most of these idols are pretty much similar in form throughout india(and any other hindu households throughout the world) it would therefore be pretty easy to have the same vision as you all have seen the same idols day in day out

[Dagless]

What do you do when you meditate? Do you just sit still? Any particular way to breathe? What are you thinking? Do you chant?