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alcurad
09-29-2009, 09:32 PM
so, how to do it?
since it's inception, the forum always had something going on, also we were a lot more diverse, with a lot of gangster bro's and sis's who enlivened debate-not by trolling btw-,and made sure that no single faction gained the upper hand.

but now, our beloved forum has gone silent, many members left and so on, perhaps we should reflect on what made that happen?
being an oldie, I think I myself have lost much of my youthful enthusiasm, and cannot engage in epic debates anymore apparently,,, those whose forte was jokes and humor should pick it up, those who can debate should burn the fires again, and the quality of threads should go up instead of bordering on the generic since we have so many members now

..or maybe I'm over-reacting or plain bored >_>?
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Danah
09-29-2009, 09:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by alcurad
..or maybe I'm over-reacting or plain bored >_>?
No, you are not!

I agree with most of what you said, Its not the old forum I used to see
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Cabdullahi
09-29-2009, 09:39 PM
oki doki gooey bogey
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alcurad
09-29-2009, 09:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Danah
No, you are not!

I agree with most of what you said, Its not the old forum I used to see
;_;

edit:the message I've typed is too short, hence I need to have ten letters to be able to post, hence this sentence.
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GuestFellow
09-29-2009, 09:55 PM
I like this forum. Members here are great.

The people who left the forum must have other things to do. People get busy, have problems and put those needs first than anything else.
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Beardo
09-29-2009, 10:09 PM
It pleases me to see members actively participating in Forum issues. Sometimes it's not just about being in staff, you can do just as much outside as well. There are many members, whom I will not mention, who do this. They are always on the lookout on reporting posts etc that might have a negative impact on the forum. Others are always sparking new ideas! :D

Okay, well, about the debates. When I had assumed ownership of this forum a few months ago, the Jannah Network implemented a lot of things Alhamdulillah. Just a few weeks ago, I spoke to the staff about how these debates are always being closed, and it's becoming annoying because this IS a public forum. At the end of our short discussion, it was decided that as long as the debates don't go deep into Fiqh or Aqeedah, the discussions will stay OPEN. You can protest any of our thread closures by reporting it on the HelpDesk or reporting the post, and I personally will be glad to assist you.

In terms of the forum dying out... Yes, our statistics were quite bad during the month of Ramadan. That upset me at first, but I realized that means the Muslim community must be doing something more worthwhile Insha'Allah, Alhamdulillah. After Ramadan, like yesterday and the past few days, our post counts and user activity have exceeded to the highest this month, Masha'Allah.

If you have any suggestions which we can use to increase popularity of the forum or anything you want seen on IslamicBoard (that is appropriate), then please do send in your ideas. I'd be glad to review them! :D

Jazakumullahu Khair to all of you for participating and making this forum what it is.
Reply

czgibson
09-29-2009, 10:15 PM
Greetings,
format_quote Originally Posted by alcurad
so, how to do it?
since it's inception, the forum always had something going on, also we were a lot more diverse, with a lot of gangster bro's and sis's who enlivened debate-not by trolling btw-,and made sure that no single faction gained the upper hand.

but now, our beloved forum has gone silent, many members left and so on, perhaps we should reflect on what made that happen?
I haven't really noticed a big decline in activity since I've been here, but maybe I just haven't been watching closely enough.

Perhaps the reason you feel that the threads have become generic is that the same topics often get brought up repeatedly.

I agree with you about the diversity of forum members having diminished. I remember we used to have a few regular Jewish contributors, but I've not come across any Jewish input for quite a while now. There was also the overnight cull of atheists and agnostics that happened in a mad moment several months ago.

Still, according to the members list there are currently 8102 members on board, and although many of them will not be active, I'm sure things could be worse. I still think this forum is one of the best ways for Muslims and non-Muslims from all corners of the earth to talk to each other, and long may it continue.

Peace
Reply

alcurad
09-29-2009, 10:40 PM
hmm, less moderating? I mean really what drew me to the forum were the debates, any question was allowed, and we went as deep as we wanted to, but then again there were several non-Muslims around thus it was 'ok' to ask since they were doing it too, now no one asks it seems, for conformity or something else I'm not sure, but either way, I think we need to have deep, engaging debates,and not refer new comers to old threads, and tell them to read this link or that, they should debate it anew, I mean really, no one will bother reading a 20+ page thread, asking the questions and struggling with the problem is a much better way to learn and makes people come back to see what is being said and so on.

this is of course drawn from my experience, but yeah. also, people were less inhibited, or how to put it, more open to joiking and not taking themselves too seriously all the time, this wasn't just in the humor section, but in all sections, hence the mood was lightened, and those who made mistakes were tolerated instead of viewd negatively.

^this romanticizes a bit, but I want to capture the feelings we had early on, so that the new members can live that experience again, the reason I stick around-even though I don't post much-is usually to read an interesting thread/discussion, and I assume it's the same for everyone else., so plainly and in a nutshell:

1. new threads that deal with already dealt with topics should not be taken down, let people learn for themselves, even if we have the answers, they don't, and for the sake of the forum we should let them ask and wonder instead of directing them to a thread that's been dead for 3 years etc.

2. stop posting ultra-mega-gigantic copy-pastes unless it's entirely essential, people need to understand what they are posting, this seems strange, but if you paste a 50+ reply, chances are you don't need to post all of it.

3. more questioning, less inhibiting, this might lead to uncomfortable questions, but Islam is not a mystery, and there is no deep secret surrounding it's answers to life and everything, and again, people asking and learning would fulfill the point of this website being called 'Forum'.

4. more charismatic posting, I personally remember taking a break form the forum and upon return seeing someone called guven posting like crazy in every thread there was, it was mostly pictures of nature too <_< , the point? staying in one section instead of seeing the rest of them means people don't interact more, hence the quality of what's being said is decreased since the same people can't keep posting forever. ie. people should look in other sections as well.

5. continuing from 4: perhaps too many sections has contributed to this? I remember we had very few sections, hence I had to see others posts even if I didn't care much for reading them, and many surprised me with how witty/funny/deep they were.
for the first year I didn't enter the humor section once, mostly lurking in world affairs/comparative religion, I still do that mostly, but then I found that there were good posts, and that I could also contribute to the help section, since most people were asking for simple common sense, not elaborate complicated replies, though the latter are useful as well.

finally, I think the-radio?- audio program Rashad started was a really good idea, more things/events/etc that only need some effort rather than exceptional knowledge/skills would boost participation.

otherwise, life takes a toll, and it should, so being busy with special events like Ramadan or Hajj/exams/work/family/travel/good food/anime etc are all legitimate reasons for not posting, also taking a break every once in a while so that it doesn't get boring are good points to keep in mind.
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Beardo
09-29-2009, 10:46 PM
I agree with everything Brother Alcurad has said. It's a matter of getting it to the staff. :p

Well, good luck with that!

*rushes off*
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alcurad
09-29-2009, 10:56 PM
czgibson, I do agree, this is one of the few places I learned about Islam and other beliefs in a meaningful way :)

the Jewish members leaving for good is slightly disheartening, given most were well versed in their own teachings, not to mention they all seemed well intentioned people.

but then I think given that they don't really call for conversion/spreading their own religion it is rather expected there aren't many of them around.
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Muezzin
09-30-2009, 07:06 PM
Reminds me of this thread.

(That was not a coded admonition to 'use the search function', this thread genuinely reminds me of the other, even though they are distinct).
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Eric H
09-30-2009, 07:42 PM
Greetings and peace be with you,

I think this is a good forum, and people with different views are respected, so hats off to the moderators for all their hard work, and keeping the forum peaceful.

On a side note, maybe the moderators need to have their ten million dollar annual bonuses restored, to keep them in line with the banking industry. ;D

In the spirit of praying for a greater interfaith friendship

Eric
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Rasema
09-30-2009, 07:48 PM
:sl:
Well, there were some femanists on the forum.
If someone naughty comes,offend them, bann them...

I have an occount on gawaher and sunnipath forum and they are very prudent. I think this forum needs stricter rules.I have seen many anti islamic stuff on here. It is a nice forum afterall.
:wa:
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GuestFellow
09-30-2009, 07:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Rasema
:sl:
Well, there were some femanists on the forum.
If someone naughty comes,offend them, bann them...
:wa:
Salaam.

I really don't mind feminism as long as they don't get extreme.
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Rasema
09-30-2009, 07:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Guestfellow
Salaam.

I really don't mind feminism as long as they don't get extreme.
I do. Everyone agrees with them. When I post something on sunnipath forum regarding women issues it comes out to be a good allegation but here ahhh i need to delete my inbox.
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_PakistaN_
09-30-2009, 08:31 PM
Well, dude.. times changes u know. some people get bored.. they want to do new things. but i would sujjest to people to keep in touch with this forum. it will help keep u on the right track.
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Re.TiReD
09-30-2009, 10:03 PM
AssalamuAlaykum

Yups, I agrees. The forum has indeed gone dead....So, what we gonna do about it? :popcorn:

Fing is, people grow up, move on, get married, evolve into humans etc etc well the last one is for me actually, my fishy days are over alhamdulillah.

So yah, basically you gotta just wait for the new batch of forummers to come and take over innit..Well thats my 2 rupees, dont know if its actually relevant coz havnt read any of the other replies.

Ah well, Wassalam
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BlissfullyJaded
09-30-2009, 10:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Rasema
:sl:
Well, there were some femanists on the forum.
If someone naughty comes,offend them, bann them...
:wa:

People tend to have different ideas about what a feminist is, so what is your idea of a feminist? Anyways, I don't see any need to ban somebody just because she's feminist. I might differ with some of their views, but as long as there is a civil discussion that is not breaking any rules, they can stick around.

I have an occount on gawaher and sunnipath forum and they are very prudent. I think this forum needs stricter rules.
What sort of stricter rules are needed?

I have seen many anti islamic stuff on here.
Then report it. We don't leave anti Islamic posts lying around on purpose.
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Najm
09-30-2009, 11:53 PM
AsSalamOAlaikum WaRehmatuAllah WaBarkatuhu

Well i still think, there should be a marriage section!!!

I do however like the Memorisation initiative!!!

And the advice section should be broken down to 1) Issues with Islam and 2) All other issues

Also, i think the forum should also set a sort of friendship/buddy system for the members. So there is more of a sense of community and brotherhood as well as support. You know to help each other out and be interactive.:embarrass Further this is something which is more important with people who may have less friends, or feel lonely, or are new muslims who may need extra support.... I dont expect the staff to do this, but rather people who are willing to be a mentor or something. Maybe we can have a new breed of "mentors" to go along side"moderaters":statisfie . Im in.

Im sleepy. Allah will take care of my affairs. Goodnight

FiAmaaniAllah
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Najm
10-01-2009, 09:15 PM
AsSalamOAlaikum WaRehmatuAllah WaBarkatuhu

Hope i didnt kill the thread. Good night

FiAmaaniAllah
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Muhammad
10-01-2009, 09:48 PM
:sl:

Jazakallaahu khayran for your suggestions. :)

On the issue of debates...

I think losing enthusiasm for debates is a pretty normal phenomenon in the grand forum lifecycle. Sometimes people join with a lot of energy to debate, and later they kind of calm down and do other things.

Questioning and debate are good to an extent, but I would disagree with less 'inhibition' because not all questions and debates are suitable in a forum environment. Some of them require a much more scholarly approach to resolve and therefore need to be directed to more appropriate sources. On a forum like this, we don't have many people who have the knowledge to deal with in-depth issues. And in Islam, we know that if a person does not have knowledge about an aspect of the religion, he should refrain from speaking about it in case he misleads people, hence this is why we discourage members from delving into matters that require more in-depth knowledge and understanding.

On a general level, another reason why debates may be reduced is the lack of members who have good debating ability. Unfortunately we often find members losing sight of the points being made and either going off-topic or falling into arguments etc.

format_quote Originally Posted by alcurad
new threads that deal with already dealt with topics should not be taken down, let people learn for themselves, even if we have the answers, they don't, and for the sake of the forum we should let them ask and wonder instead of directing them to a thread that's been dead for 3 years etc.
I understand why you might feel this way. Perhaps in some cases it might be acceptable to allow a new discussion, but in others, like the issue of music which seems to crop up every week or so, it can be frustrating to read the same thing again and again. This applies especially to things where debate isn't necessary, rather it's a question that has already been dealt with at length, like providing the evidence why music is Haram.

I hope I've given a clear picture of what I wanted to say Insha'Allaah. I also want to add that Alhamdulillah with new projects like the memorisation initiative, I believe the forum will become a much more beneficial place Insha'Allaah.

May Allah (swt) guide us to what pleases Him, Aameen.

Wassalaamu Alaykum.
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alcurad
10-02-2009, 12:24 AM
brother, this exactly proves my point: music isn't haraam,yet some people assert it is, hence the need for more discussion.

life is not white and black, what worked one thousand years ago does not work now, hence taking rulings from books-which is what most scholars do- does not seem appropriate to say the least.
it is forums like this that I believe the firs sparks should be lighted, and no topic be off limits, we are instructed to seek knowledge, not bury it.
Islam's rules are not mysteries ad I said before, hence no need to impose a singular view if room exists for more. that is not achievable if even discussion is not allowed.
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Muslim Woman
10-02-2009, 12:40 AM
:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by Jawharah

... they can stick around.... .
I was wondering why some Muslims are banned here ? They used foul languages to other participants ? Do they get another chance to join here if promise not to violate any rules ?
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Rasema
10-02-2009, 06:00 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Jawharah
:wa:

People tend to have different ideas about what a feminist is, so what is your idea of a feminist? Anyways, I don't see any need to ban somebody just because she's feminist. I might differ with some of their views, but as long as there is a civil discussion that is not breaking any rules, they can stick around.

What sort of stricter rules are needed?

Then report it. We don't leave anti Islamic posts lying around on purpose.
:sl:
Are you questioning me about femanism in particulat or how to imbetter the forum? If about femanism, we would go off topic.

Ps. I respect anyones viewpoints as long as they respect mine. If I believe that a man can beat the woman you have no right to disrepute me.

I don't report my own brothers and sisters, I kindly tell them that it is wrong.
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Cabdullahi
10-02-2009, 06:28 AM
BAN ALL THE FEMINISTS!

I can't joke no more MAN! without having a sister filled with rage and fiery, carefully typing with the tips of her fingers looking after the petrol smelling like polished nails, on standby to grill me on my postings.

and thats why LI is dead
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Muhammad
10-03-2009, 01:38 PM
:sl:

I was initially going to post a small clarification but it has turned into quite a big one, so I hope you will forgive me for the long post. :smile:

format_quote Originally Posted by alcurad
life is not white and black, what worked one thousand years ago does not work now, hence taking rulings from books-which is what most scholars do- does not seem appropriate to say the least.
Dear brother, the religion of Islam is suitable for every time and place and adherence to it in no way conflicts with the wellbeing and benefit of mankind. So whatever the Prophet sallallaahu 'alayhi wasallam came with one thousand years ago is still applicable today, no matter how small or big. This deen was perfected before he passed away, therefore it is to be implemented in the same way as it was then.

The rulings of our deen come from the Qur'an and Sunnah, so if we didn't have the scholars to study, preserve and pass on the teachings of our deen, how would we then know our religion?

brother, this exactly proves my point: music isn't haraam,yet some people assert it is, hence the need for more discussion.

life is not white and black,
There are many issues of the deen that are clear and manifest, as Allaah (swt) tell us,

It is He Who has sent down to you the Book (this Qur'an). In it are Verses that are entirely clear, they are the foundations of the Book; and others not entirely clear. So as for those in whose hearts there is a deviation they follow that which is not entirely clear thereof, seeking Al-Fitnah (polytheism and trials), and seeking for its hidden meanings, but none knows its hidden meanings save Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in it; the whole of it (clear and unclear Verses) are from our Lord." And none receive admonition except men of understanding. [Aal 'Imraan: 7]


And we have in the hadeeth:

On the authority of Abu 'Abdullah al-Nu'man bin Bashir, radiyallahu 'anhu, who said: I heard the Messenger of Allah, sallallahu 'alayhi wasallam, say:
"Truly, what is lawful is evident, and what is unlawful is evident, and in between the two are matters which are doubtful which many people do not know. He who guards against doubtful things keeps his religion and honour blameless, and he who indulges in doubtful things indulges in fact in unlawful things, just as a shepherd who pastures his flock round a preserve will soon pasture them in it..." [Al-Bukhari & Muslim]
When you have a matter which is unclear, the safest thing one can do is to stay away from it. If one doctor told you that a medicine is good while another doctor said it would kill you, would you risk taking the medicine? Similarly, the salaf were extremely cautious when it came to the Halal and Haram for fear of the Fire.

But the matter is even clearer regarding those issues where most of the Ummah went against them, such as music. Many scholars have quoted Ijmaa' (a unanimous agreement among the scholars) on the prohibition of music and therefore it is not possible for any irregular opinions to be considered against this. Whenever we see an issue that appears to be controversial, we must ask whether it has been discussed before and if so, does it have a ruling that the Ummah unanimously agreed upon? If yes, then that matter becomes closed because the Ijmaa' of any generation of scholars on a certain religous issue is binding upon the following generations. And the Prophet sallallaahu 'alayhi wasallam has related that the scholars from among his Ummah will never arrive at a consensus that contains misguidance or error. This is supported by the fact that Allaah (swt) has promised to protect His deen. For more detail regarding what these scholars have said, you can read this post: http://www.islamicboard.com/300466-post5.html

Even if someone claimed that there was no Ijmaa', the overwhelming majority of the Ummah still held the opinion that music is Haram. It goes against reason to believe that only those few scholars with irregular opinions got it right due to the point already made that the Ummah cannot unite upon falsehood.

As a side point, one of the methodologies used by people in attacking the sharee'ah is to isolate evidences and then disregard them. If a strong person faces ten people, he cannot overcome them. But if he meets them individually it is easier to defeat them. Therefore it is important to use a holistic approach and put all the evidence together and not follow desires, then ask whether this leads to the acceptance or rejection of music.

it is forums like this that I believe the firs sparks should be lighted, and no topic be off limits, we are instructed to seek knowledge, not bury it. Islam's rules are not mysteries ad I said before, hence no need to impose a singular view if room exists for more. that is not achievable if even discussion is not allowed.
In light of the above, I hope it has become evident that sometimes there is a need to impose a singular view when no room exists for more, otherwise we would have people of innovation and desires coming to cast doubt on the truth and attack it using their own intellect and weak opinions. Seeking knowledge is about studying the Words of Allaah (swt) and His Messenger sallallaahu 'alayhi wasallaam and learning from the scholars and people of knowledge, not arguing without knowledge with the ignorant such that matters are just made more confusing and no benefit is achieved. Even in cases where more than one opinion is valid, discussion must be based upon knowledge and understanding of those issues so that people do not become confused and only end up fighting each other. Therefore those who are sincere about their deen and wish to study further, they should seek the proper sources and etiquettes and ensure they do not waste time in matters that do not benefit. If this was a forum run by scholars or students of knowledge, we could accommodate a greater number of discussions, but as we are not, then we are limited in what we can do.

And Allaah (swt) knows best.

Wassalaamu Alaykum.
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Muhammad
10-03-2009, 01:44 PM
:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by Rasema
Ps. I respect anyones viewpoints as long as they respect mine. If I believe that a man can beat the woman you have no right to disrepute me.
When we discuss the rights of men and women in Islam, then all our viewpoints must be based upon the Qur'an and Sunnah. So if someone says something that is contrary to those teachings, such that women are allowed to be treated badly in Islam, then such a saying deserves to be rejected and clarified.

format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullahii
I can't joke no more MAN! without having a sister filled with rage and fiery, carefully typing with the tips of her fingers looking after the petrol smelling like polished nails, on standby to grill me on my postings.

and thats why LI is dead
Akhee, we should not be joking for the sake of angering anyone or creating a useless argument. We have to remember the manners of our Prophet sallallaahu 'alayhi wasallam and his noble companions who had the best way of joking without causing harm to anyone.
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Rasema
10-03-2009, 02:17 PM
When we discuss the rights of men and women in Islam, then all our viewpoints must be based upon the Qur'an and Sunnah. So if someone says something that is contrary to those teachings, such that women are allowed to be treated badly in Islam, then such a saying deserves to be rejected and clarified.
:sl:

Your knowledge about Islam is definitely above mine. So, does Islam or does it not allow a man to beat his wife, in some circumstances?

Are you saying that when the Qur'an tells us something we don't desire it deserves to be rejected ? Because hitting a wife is treating her badly. But becuase she deserves to be treted in such a way so she repents.

Or is there really a hadeeth that says you can't hit your wife? Don't make me believe that hadeeths contradict the Qur'an.
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Muhammad
10-03-2009, 02:36 PM
:wa:

Are you saying that when the Qur'an tells us something we don't desire it deserves to be rejected?
I don't want anyone to reject any part of the Qur'an, if that is what you were asking.

Regarding your other question, I believe it's answered quite well in the following answer:

From: http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/41199


Hitting one’s wife?


There is nothing in the Qur’aan that suggests that a man is allowed to beat his wife.

1 – The Qur’aan enjoins good treatment of one's wife: she is to be honoured and treated kindly, even when one no longer feels love in one's heart towards her. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“...and live with them honourably. If you dislike them, it may be that you dislike a thing and Allaah brings through it a great deal of good”

[al-Nisa’ 4:19]

2 – The Qur’aan explains that women have rights over their husbands, just as their husbands have rights over them. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And they (women) have rights (over their husbands as regards living expenses) similar (to those of their husbands) over them (as regards obedience and respect) to what is reasonable, but men have a degree (of responsibility) over them. And Allaah is All-Mighty, All-Wise”

[al-Baqarah 2:228]

This verse indicates that the man has additional rights, commensurate with his role as protector and maintainer and his responsibility of spending (on his wife) etc.

3 – The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) enjoined kind treatment and honouring of one’s wife, and he described the best of people as those who are best to their wives. He said: “The best of you are those who are the best to their wives, and I am the best of you to my wives.” Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 3895; Ibn Maajah, 1977; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi.

4 – The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) spoke beautiful word concerning kind treatment of one’s wife, stating that when the husband feeds his wife and puts a morsel of food in her mouth, he earns the reward of doing an act of charity. He said, “You never spend anything but you will be rewarded for it, even the morsel of food that you lift to your wife’s mouth.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6352; Muslim, 1628.

5 – And he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Fear Allaah with regard to women, for you have taken them as a trust from Allaah and intimacy with them has become permissible to you by the words of Allaah. Your right over them is that they should not allow anyone to sit on your furniture whom you dislike; if they do that then hit them but not in a harsh manner. And their right over you is that you should provide for them and clothe them on a reasonable basis.” Narrated by Muslim, 1218.

What is meant by “they should not allow anyone to sit on your furniture whom you dislike” is that they should not allow anyone whom you dislike to enter your houses, whether the person disliked is a man or a woman, or any of the woman’s mahrams [close relatives to whom marriage is forbidden]. The prohibition includes all of them. From the words of al-Nawawi.

The hadeeth may be understood as meaning that a man has the right to hit his wife, in a manner that is not harsh and does not cause injury if if there is a reason for that, such as her going against his wishes or disobeying him.

This is like the verse in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“As to those women on whose part you see ill‑conduct, admonish them (first), (next) refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allaah is Ever Most High, Most Great”

[al-Nisa’ 4:34]

If a woman rebels against her husband and disobeys his commands, then he should follow this method of admonishing her, forsaking her in bed and hitting her. Hitting is subject to the condition that it should not be harsh or cause injury. Al-Hasan al-Basri said: this means that it should not cause pain.

‘Ata’ said: I said to Ibn ‘Abbaas, what is the kind of hitting that is not harsh? He said, Hitting with a siwaak and the like. [A siwaak is a small stick or twig used for cleaning the teeth - Translator]

The purpose behind this is not to hurt or humiliate the woman, rather it is intended to make her realize that she has transgressed against her husband’s rights, and that her husband has the right to set her straight and discipline her.

And Allaah knows best.
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Rasema
10-03-2009, 02:42 PM
:sl:



There is nothing in the Qur’aan that suggests that a man is allowed to bite (beat right?)his wife.
If a woman rebels against her husband and disobeys his commands, then he should follow this method of admonishing her, forsaking her in bed and hitting her. Hitting is subject to the condition that it should not be harsh or cause injury. Al-Hasan al-Basri said: this means that it should not cause pain.
I guess my claim was correct. But that it shouldn't cause pain ...
Then why hit her at all? What's the pint then?
I'll stick with that it shouldn't cause injury.
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Muhammad
10-03-2009, 02:56 PM
:wa:

format_quote Originally Posted by Rasema
I guess my claim was correct. But that it shouldn't cause pain ...
Then why hit her at all? What's the pint then?
I'll stick with that it shouldn't cause injury.
Your claim wasn't correct at all. When we say "wife-beating", we usually mean abusing her with acts of violence. The above answer clearly made a distinction that in Islam, this kind of ill-treatment is not allowed at all. Instead, permission is given to hit her in a way that does not cause harm, and some have explained it to be a symbolic gesture to show the severity of the matter, or as a last resort if a man thinks it will prevent divorce by letting his wife know how serious he is, etc. (and Allaah (swt) knows best the wisdom behind it).

But when we read the Qur'an and come across things like this, we should not assume bad about Allaah (swt) or the rulings He has laid down in religion. We have to remember that Allaah (swt) has perfected this deen and made it complete; that the religion of Islam comprises wisdom, mercy and takes care of that which is necessary and beneficial for the creation, and which wards off corruption and evil. We must have eemaan in the Book of Allaah (swt) such that we act upon whatever rulings it contains that have not been abrogated and be pleased with that, and to fully submit to it whether we understand the wisdom behind it or not. So whenever we don't understand something, we must ask for clarification and always have confidence that whatever Allaah (swt) commands is the truth, and that it can never be something that is unjust or evil.

Wassalaamu Alaykum.
Reply

Ansariyah
10-03-2009, 02:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Najm
AsSalamOAlaikum WaRehmatuAllah WaBarkatuhu

Well i still think, there should be a marriage section!!!

Guud suggestion....we do need a forum like that... for u. jk

Jokes aside, we do need a marriage forum.

format_quote Originally Posted by Rasema
:sl:
Are you questioning me about femanism in particulat or how to imbetter the forum? If about femanism, we would go off topic.

Ps. I respect anyones viewpoints as long as they respect mine. If I believe that a man can beat the woman you have no right to disrepute me.

I don't report my own brothers and sisters, I kindly tell them that it is wrong.
:wa:

I beg to differ.


Op I so agree this forums dead.
Reply

Rasema
10-03-2009, 03:02 PM
But when we read the Qur'an and come across things like this, we should not assume bad about Allaah (swt) or the rulings He has laid down in religion. We have to remember that Allaah (swt) has perfected this deen and made it complete; that the religion of Islam comprises wisdom, mercy and takes care of that which is necessary and beneficial for the creation, and which wards off corruption and evil. We must have eemaan in the Book of Allaah (swt) such that we act upon whatever rulings it contains that have not been abrogated and be pleased with that, and to fully submit to it whether we understand the wisdom behind it or not. So whenever we don't understand something, we must ask for clarification and always have confidence that whatever Allaah (swt) commands is the truth.
Allah, subhana wa ta'ala, doesn't need to give an explanation of his commands to His true followers. He hid a great portion to why He commanded something. I'll stick to this.

Sorry I changed the topic and I feel as if Islam is being modernized.
Reply

Muhammad
10-03-2009, 04:22 PM
:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by Rasema
Allah, subhana wa ta'ala, doesn't need to give an explanation of his commands to His true followers. He hid a great portion to why He commanded something. I'll stick to this.
It is true that some wisdom we might never find out until we meet Allaah (swt), but as for requiring explanation, then what I meant by this is that often we do not possess all the knowledge required to understand something when reading the translation of a verse of the Qur'an. For instance, we might not even know the Arabic language in which the Qur'an was revealed, and thus we won't be able to appreciate the depth of meaning after its translation. And likewise we might not have studied the context and reason behind the revelation of specific verses and hadeeth, and the way in which the companions of the Prophet sallallaahu 'alayhi wasallam understood and acted upon those verses and hadeeth, and we might not have studied which rulings have been abrogated by which... and the list can easily go on. So that's when we need to refer to the people of knowledge who have studied all these things so that they can help us to understand the correct interpretation of such verses/hadeeth.

Sorry I changed the topic and I feel as if Islam is being modernized.
That's OK. I also feel the same when people start speaking about Islam without knowledge of the Qur'an and Sunnah (not referring to anyone in particular), and instead of trying to understand these sources of Islam in the proper way, they use their own intellect and personal opinions to follow what they wish. May Allaah (swt) guide us all and help us to remain steadfast on the truth, Aameen!
Reply

Muhaba
10-03-2009, 05:13 PM
Yes Allah gave men the right to hit their wives.

The verse of the Quraan says:

“As to those women on whose part you see ill‑conduct, admonish them (first), (next) refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allaah is Ever Most High, Most Great”

From this verse, you can see that men are allowed to hit their wives only if they see ill-conduct on the wives' part. If there is no ill-conduct on the wives part, men shouldn't hit them. some men do that, that is, they beat their wives up simply because they are angry. Some might hit their wives if the wife discusses something with them and the wife's opinion is different from the husbands, it makes the man angry and he resorts to hitting the wife. how correct is that? while the wife should obey & respect the husband, the husband should accept that the wife will have opinions of her own and shouldn't resort to beating the wife simply because the Quraan says he can hit the wife because the Quraan clearly says “As to those women on whose part you see ill‑conduct, admonish them (first), (next) refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allaah is Ever Most High, Most Great.”

So i think that this verse is actually a deterrent to wife-beating. Before a man strikes his wife, he should ask why he is doing it.

now back to topic, i agree that some ppl get bored of debating or move on in life. maybe this board needs more publicity to attract more ppl?

there are over 20,000 members, but it seems most don't post? maybe do a poll asking what type of topics ppl are interested in to see what will get members to become active?
Reply

Rasema
10-03-2009, 06:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by muhaba
Yes Allah gave men the right to hit their wives.

The verse of the Quraan says:

“As to those women on whose part you see ill‑conduct, admonish them (first), (next) refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allaah is Ever Most High, Most Great”

From this verse, you can see that men are allowed to hit their wives only if they see ill-conduct on the wives' part. If there is no ill-conduct on the wives part, men shouldn't hit them. some men do that, that is, they beat their wives up simply because they are angry. Some might hit their wives if the wife discusses something with them and the wife's opinion is different from the husbands, it makes the man angry and he resorts to hitting the wife. how correct is that? while the wife should obey & respect the husband, the husband should accept that the wife will have opinions of her own and shouldn't resort to beating the wife simply because the Quraan says he can hit the wife because the Quraan clearly says “As to those women on whose part you see ill‑conduct, admonish them (first), (next) refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allaah is Ever Most High, Most Great.”

So i think that this verse is actually a deterrent to wife-beating. Before a man strikes his wife, he should ask why he is doing it.

now back to topic, i agree that some ppl get bored of debating or move on in life. maybe this board needs more publicity to attract more ppl?

there are over 20,000 members, but it seems most don't post? maybe do a poll asking what type of topics ppl are interested in to see what will get members to become active?
I love you sister. By brother Muhammad saying that my statement is not correct AT ALL. WELL, HITTING AND BEATING ARE TWO VERY CLOSE THINGS(I'm not yelling).I was hurt for some time since Islam being modernized is the worse thing one can get to know.
Reply

Muhammad
10-03-2009, 07:03 PM
:sl:

I think there might have been a misunderstanding earlier. I'm not saying that men are not allowed to hit their wives, rather a man has the right to hit his wife in a manner that is not harsh and does not cause injury if there is a reason for that. But it is important to distinguish this between beating one's wife in an oppressive manner so as to cause injury etc. As mentioned earlier, the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhi wasallam) said,“The best of you are those who are the best to their wives, and I am the best of you to my wives.” And there are other hadeeth in this regard.

I think we are all in agreement here, Insha'Allaah.

P.S. Sorry for taking this thread off-topic.
Reply

Rasema
10-03-2009, 07:19 PM
P.S. Sorry for taking this thread off-topic.
I thank you all very much. May Allah,subhana wa ta'ala, reward you. I agree with what sister muhaba had said. Ameen
Reply

Amadeus85
10-03-2009, 10:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by alcurad
so, how to do it?

but now, our beloved forum has gone silent, many members left and so on, perhaps we should reflect on what made that happen?
being an oldie, I think I myself have lost much of my youthful enthusiasm, and cannot engage in epic debates anymore apparently,,, those whose forte was jokes and humor should pick it up, those who can debate should burn the fires again, and the quality of threads should go up instead of bordering on the generic since we have so many members now
I dont know about others, but I'm still alive and kicking.
Reply

alcurad
10-03-2009, 10:15 PM
good :). you did go on hiatus though?
Reply

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