Those Who Convert From Islam

[iamme]

Greetings.

I have a question and hope it can be answered without prejudice(sorry, but I recieve it whenever i've asked so now i've resorted to the internet to get a realistic answer).

My question is that according to ISLAM (and not cultural peer-pressure and personal opinions), if a person born into a Muslim family later in life converts to Christianity, should their family completely disown/abandon them?

[alcurad]

no, rather they should be guided back to the truth.

['Abd-al Latif]

How can one accept falsehood and loss in this life and the next after guidance has come to him?!

Christians who came to Islam admitted that bible lead them to Islam, so what in the world can make one turn to the path of ambiguity and crookedness?!

[GreyKode]

I smell Rifqa bary's story.

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[czgibson]

Greetings,

How can one accept falsehood and loss in this life and the next after guidance has come to him?!

Christians who came to Islam admitted that bible lead them to Islam, so what in the world can make one turn to the path of ambiguity and crookedness?!

Independent thought; a difference of opinion; freedom of belief?

Peace

['Abd-al Latif]

Greetings,


Independent thought; a difference of opinion; freedom of belief?

Peace

The blind and the seeing are not the same?

What difference of opinion, independent thinking or freedom of belief is there when truth is made clear from falsehood? Truth is what is established as a fact and there is no Independent thinking , difference of opinion or freedom of belief that can change this!

[czgibson]

Greetings,

The blind and the seeing are not the same?

What difference of opinion, independent thinking or freedom of belief is there when truth is made clear from falsehood? Truth is what is established as a fact and there is no Independent thinking , difference of opinion or freedom of belief that can change this!

That's a very simplistic, black-and-white understanding of the nature of truth.

You are talking about beliefs, not facts. It's not a good idea to confuse the two.

Peace

[alcurad]

as I said, they should never be cast out, but it seems highly unlikely a muslim would regress-I don't mean to offend, but this is how I see it-to Christianity, after one is a Muslim, either you stay one, or you go agnostic/atheist, there is no way a person who truly understood the fundamentals of Islam would take stories about Jesus being God etc seriously. in a nutshell, factors other than pure faith/belief usually are the reason people leave Islam to Christianity in particular.

['Abd-al Latif]

Greetings,


That's a very simplistic, black-and-white understanding of the nature of truth.

You are talking about beliefs, not facts. It's not a good idea to confuse the two.

Peace

You're an athiest, truth to athiests is seeing first to believe which is why what is established to be the truth among athiests can be limited and sometimes can make the truth very ambigious, even though belief and truth are two terms that go hand to hand.

You cannot believe unless something is deemed to be true, and truth cannot be established except with a firm belief of it's factual existance. Unless you have your own definition of truth (such as philosophy that defines truth with a nonsensical definition) than belief and truth are two terms that cannot stand by them selves, thus you cannot make a distinction between them.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Unless you have your own definition of truth (such as philosophy that defines truth with a nonsensical definition) than belief and truth are two terms that cannot stand by them selves, thus you cannot make a distinction between them.

You obviously don't know very much about philosophy. Never mind.

Peace

['Abd-al Latif]

Greetings,


You obviously don't know very much about philosophy. Never mind.

Peace

Because I couldn't care less about such nonsense.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Because I couldn't care less about such nonsense.

Without philosophy you wouldn't have a computer to write those words on, but still, I suppose you're entitled to your opinion.

Peace

[north_malaysian]

From what i've seen, if a person left Islam and tell about it to the whole world (plus talking bad thing about Islam)... he/she will become a celebrity and protected by western nations...

[syilla]

^^^ you mean that famous khan :D

[Sampharo]

Without philosophy you wouldn't have a computer to write those words on

Now who is confusing their beliefs with fact? :)

[Muhseen]

^^^ you mean that famous khan :D

Although a bit off-topic, I would like to know which Khan do you mean? Thanks

[Amadeus85]

From what i've seen, if a person left Islam and tell about it to the whole world (plus talking bad thing about Islam)... he/she will become a celebrity and protected by western nations...

Its true as I see those things. Europeans love ex- muslims or liberal muslims or secular-european muslims. Then they allow them to join parliament or one political party other. But first they must reject the theocratic vision of politics and society. I must say that it is somehow wise move from the mainstream european politicians. But on the other hand, there is also a fashion to convert to islam in Europe since about 7-8 years, and the converts are not punished by law, although that typically as neofit, they are agressively anti- christian and anti- european and very vocal about it.

[alcurad]

^right after conversion most people have 'zeal', and seek to-un/consciously?-'prove' themselves etc, it dissipates afterward.

[kawaiigardiner]

^right after conversion most people have 'zeal', and seek to-un/consciously?-'prove' themselves etc, it dissipates afterward.

It took Cat Stevens/Yusuf Islam almost two decades to come down to earth.

You find that those who have the most Zeal either have no background in Philosophy or Religious Studies or avoid those subjects at university because it would force them think about the bigger picture instead of the strict literalism they've embraced.

[Humbler_359]

I smell young Rifaq's stories and seeking attention. Full of Twisting.

Alot of ex-Muslims are looking for benefits and attention on churches in giving Islam a bad image. Moreover, I have seen that they don't get understanding properly and influences by peer pressures and Non-Muslims friends (in conflict with Islam).

One of my friend's friend's deaf friend (not really my friend) chose to become stupid Christian for wrong reasons. Because Church (rich) can provide sign language interpreters and money support while Mosque is not available.

Absurd!

[kawaiigardiner]

I smell young Rifaq's stories and seeking attention. Full of Twisting.

Alot of ex-Muslims are looking for benefits and attention on churches in giving Islam a bad image. Moreover, I have seen that they don't get understanding properly and influences by peer pressures and Non-Muslims friends (in conflict with Islam).

One of my friend's friend's deaf friend (not really my friend) chose to become stupid Christian for wrong reasons. Because Church (rich) can provide sign language interpreters and money support while Mosque is not available.

Absurd!

The worst part of the ex-Muslims are those who use other Muslims as the benchmark of Islam.

How many here scream about the virtues of Sharia law at the state level and have absolutely no idea about historical fact versus romanticised fiction put out by extremists?

[Humbler_359]

The worst part of the ex-Muslims are those who use other Muslims as the benchmark of Islam.

How many here scream about the virtues of Sharia law at the state level and have absolutely no idea about historical fact versus romanticised fiction put out by extremists?

:sl: brother,

I understood what you mean. You have to keep in mind, there are billions Moderate Muslims everywhere. Some Ex-Muslims (became Christians) were the result of bad abusing or unhappy in whole life by Extremists. I know there are some extremists happened in some countries.

If I am in the shoes in this situation, I would completely understand the feeling and would leave bad situation, not the fault of Islam.

Islam taught us to be patience, tolerance, and respect, some people don't follow this techniques unfortunately due to cultures influences and very strict.

Let's consider this: "There is no compulsion in religion, for the right way is clearly from the wrong way. Whoever therefore rejects the forces of evil and believes in God, he has taken hold of a support most unfailing, which shall never give way, for God is All Hearing and Knowing." 2:256

*compulsion means FORCE! In Arabic, we called Allah (God).

Wasalaam.

[kawaiigardiner]

:sl: brother,

I understood what you mean. You have to keep in mind, there are billions Moderate Muslims everywhere. Some Ex-Muslims (became Christians) were the result of bad abusing or unhappy in whole life by Extremists. I know there are some extremists happened in some countries.

Unfortunately there are those who then come to the West, where they can practice their religion in peace but abuse that freedom :(

If I am in the shoes in this situation, I would completely understand the feeling and would leave bad situation, not the fault of Islam.

It doesn't help, however, that any person with an internet connection can turn themselves into an online Mullah - dispensing 'rulings' that are little more than 'opinions'.

Islam taught us to be patience, tolerance, and respect, some people don't follow this techniques unfortunately due to cultures influences and very strict.

Islam also freed individuals from the bonds of collectivism; from tribalism, racism, and other collectivist thought. Unfortunately, however, instead of getting rid of those negative things, there are those who use Islam to express their narrow minded opinions using religions language hoping it gives them more authority.

I'm sure you've probably seen it many times when people claiming Islam does this and that when in reality it is the individuals cultural interpretation. If they articulated that it was their cultural interpretation - no problems, but those sorts of people make claim that their interpretation is 'the Islam'.

Let's consider this: "There is no compulsion in religion, for the right way is clearly from the wrong way. Whoever therefore rejects the forces of evil and believes in God, he has taken hold of a support most unfailing, which shall never give way, for God is All Hearing and Knowing." 2:256

*compulsion means FORCE! In Arabic, we called Allah (God).

Wasalaam.

It doesn't help when there are those within the Ummah who use Hadith to abrogate the Qur'an or maintain that parts of the Qur'an abrogate other parts. I'm with Ziauddin Sardar ( http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/quran/ ) who maintains that there are no abrogations within the Qur'an. The verses is in reference to replacing previous revelations, and the use of abrogation quite frankly is the easy way out trying to understand the Qur'an. The Qur'an is a challenge, it isn't meant to be easy - it is a challenge to humanity in which with each new generation the Qur'an can be approached from a new new angle and still kept relevant.

Going off on an angle; this is why the literalist interpretation is doomed to failure - because as soon as the literalist finds a conflict between the world and their understanding - they curl up into the foetal position hoping that it'll all go away.

[Humbler_359]

................ I am getting tired and off to bed now. It is 2:30am here...:hmm: *yawns


Wasalaam, Good Night, and Peace!

[Gator]

From what i've seen, if a person left Islam and tell about it to the whole world (plus talking bad thing about Islam)... he/she will become a celebrity and protected by western nations...

Why do you say they would need to be "protected"? Protected from what?

[tetsujin]

Greetings.

I have a question and hope it can be answered without prejudice(sorry, but I recieve it whenever i've asked so now i've resorted to the internet to get a realistic answer).

My question is that according to ISLAM (and not cultural peer-pressure and personal opinions), if a person born into a Muslim family later in life converts to Christianity, should their family completely disown/abandon them?

Greetings

Short answer: No.

Nothing in the Qu'ran states you need to disown/abandon them. There are verses that suggest you shouldn't consort with non-believers in general, and how to deal with jews/christians.

Varying interpretations of the hadith will led to answers from honour killings to ostracism.


All the best,

Faysal

[14yearold]

Greetings.

I have a question and hope it can be answered without prejudice(sorry, but I recieve it whenever i've asked so now i've resorted to the internet to get a realistic answer).

My question is that according to ISLAM (and not cultural peer-pressure and personal opinions), if a person born into a Muslim family later in life converts to Christianity, should their family completely disown/abandon them?

Ur very very very funny, i was a muslim, then atheist and now Mu'min(The Faithful). You see if you are a beleiver yet your parents are non-believers then still everything they tell you to do you must otherwise its a major sin(Gunnah kabeira meaning major sin such as drinking wine). The only thing you can object is if they tell you to do anything agianst islam.

So why would muslim parents throw out there kid if they turn into non beleivers, very easily the non believer kid will realize his parents love him and not because of their relationship but islam.

[14yearold]

Its true as I see those things. Europeans love ex- muslims or liberal muslims or secular-european muslims. Then they allow them to join parliament or one political party other. But first they must reject the theocratic vision of politics and society. I must say that it is somehow wise move from the mainstream european politicians. But on the other hand, there is also a fashion to convert to islam in Europe since about 7-8 years, and the converts are not punished by law, although that typically as neofit, they are agressively anti- christian and anti- european and very vocal about it.

ur a smart little man but wat relly caught my attention was, "they are agressively anti- christian...".

Hahha thats funny because a Mu'min(a faithful) is a christian and a muslim. How the hell can you be both? Easy. We follow your laws as your laws were made to get the children of isreal ready for islam. But you must also state what you mean by 'christian'. Theres the,"God impregnated mary with himself then gave birth to himself to sacrafice himself for himself"(the trinity), The romanized christian astray from true christianity and then theres the true christian. A muslim. Because now the Last Prophet(saws) has come and you guys do not follow him so according to the injeel(gospels) you guys are not fullfilling an obligation on yourselves. Where int eh gospels does it talk about Muhhamad(SAWS)? Ill show you if you ask me. Very basicly the pressence of god in islam is very large, larger than any other religion and whomsoever fears god, there is no need to fear him yet whomsoever does not fear god, fear him.

[ChOcCi]

Ignorance is what makes a person convert into another religion from Islam. If they studied BOTH Islam AND Christanity, they would NEVER chose the latter over Islam. Never.

But yes, I agree with the second poster (1st reply) that he should not be abandoned, rather lead back to the right path.

[Muhseen]

Ur very very very funny, i was a muslim, then atheist and now Mu'min(The Faithful). You see if you are a beleiver yet your parents are non-believers then still everything they tell you to do you must otherwise its a major sin(Gunnah kabeira meaning major sin such as drinking wine). The only thing you can object is if they tell you to do anything agianst islam.

So why would muslim parents throw out there kid if they turn into non beleivers, very easily the non believer kid will realize his parents love him and not because of their relationship but islam.

Can you elaborate that bolded portion? Thanks

[MSalman]

Varying interpretations of the hadith will led to answers from honour killings to ostracism

we got a new scholar in the house. thank you for enlightening us about something which we did not know, neither our scholar could find out in 14 centuries.

[14yearold]

Can you elaborate that bolded portion? Thanks

lol i was born into a muslim family so i started off muslim. I went to school learning about evolution and stuff so i was a darwinist muslim then i turned into an atheist not believing god(as my family themselves do not have the slightest clue of islam like alot of the Ummah) and when someone would be like, "how is there no god" id be like, "wth how Is there a god"? Then a childhood 'thing' came knocking back and a whole 'Compton G thang' started then i came to pakistan because my friend wanted me to accompany him and i discovered religion. Then from Muslim to Mu'min meaning a faithful. Someone who practices the 5 pillars of islam. Like for instance, your point of view on this website is, "its awesome you get to ask questions about islam and people answer you" while i say, "this site is completely wrong because anyone could say anything, No one is capable of Giving their own Fatwa(basicly islams point of view on whos right or wrong) except for alims and muftees and more(scholars).


enough?

[Amadeus85]

Ignorance is what makes a person convert into another religion from Islam. If they studied BOTH Islam AND Christanity, they would NEVER chose the latter over Islam. Never.

.

Its worth to check this situation in France, where state radical secularism doesnt give converts to catholicism any priveliges. But nonetheless every year about 500 muslims convert to catholicism. Some muslims from Maghreb do it when they discover that st. Augustin was born and lived in North Africa and they begin to study his works. Others change religion when they study the history of France and learn how the Church created France's culture and state. Others do it when they meet the french culture, as some people say,many of french gothic cathedrals give proof of the existence of the Great World's Builder. So as You see the situaton is more complex than many of you may expect. Of course I must admit that in France much more people convert from catholicism to islam than inversely. The Church there was weakened in large point by french episcopate.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Ignorance is what makes a person convert into another religion from Islam. If they studied BOTH Islam AND Christanity, they would NEVER chose the latter over Islam. Never.

They might choose something else instead...

Peace

[ChOcCi]

Its worth to check this situation in France, where state radical secularism doesnt give converts to catholicism any priveliges. But nonetheless every year about 500 muslims convert to catholicism. Some muslims from Maghreb do it when they discover that st. Augustin was born and lived in North Africa and they begin to study his works. Others change religion when they study the history of France and learn how the Church created France's culture and state. Others do it when they meet the french culture, as some people say,many of french gothic cathedrals give proof of the existence of the Great World's Builder. So as You see the situaton is more complex than many of you may expect. Of course I must admit that in France much more people convert from catholicism to islam than inversely. The Church there was weakened in large point by french episcopate.

Yeah mate, thats true, but if they studied BOTH the Qur'an AND studied these church stuff, I really dont believe they would chose the catholic way of life. Theres no way anyone can be that ignorant to truth.

The bible was written by a man (Constantine). The Quran was written by Allah. The bible should not come even half as close to being as true as the Quran should be.

[Sojourn]

Peace ChOcCi

Yeah mate, thats true, but if they studied BOTH the Qur'an AND studied these church stuff, I really dont believe they would chose the catholic way of life. Theres no way anyone can be that ignorant to truth.

I am someone who has reverted to Catholicism and I'll be the first to say that my reversion was a bit rocky. When I began to recognize the truth of the Gospel, that Jesus was crucified, and did reveal Himself to be Divine, the next question was where is the true Church He promised He would always protect and guide? I knew such a Church would require a historical connection to Christ, and therefore the Protestant denominations that arose at most 500 years ago could not be it. It was really a choice between Western Christianity (Cahtolicism), and one of the Eastern Churches (Orthodoxy). I have to admit, from the onset I was leaning towards Orthodoxy because the preconceived notions I had of Catholicism were unappealing. The image I had of Catholicism was what I got from tv and public school, a bunch of corrupt Popes, selling of indulgences for salvation, confessing sins to men instead of God, barbarous crusades, and inquisitions. The more I learned of the Bible, early Christian writings, and the history of the Church (and therefore getting a correct understanding of things like indulgences), the more my intellect began to recognize that the Catholic Church is indeed the true Church, but my will was having a hard time following through with what my intellect already recognized! And that's because the negative image ingrained into me took a lot to remove it. I've spent the last 5 years of my life trying to discover and understand what "Catholicism" really is, and what I am discovering is a priceless treasure. Had the Catholic Church not been protected by God, it's own members would have destroyed it a long time ago!

The bible was written by a man (Constantine). The Quran was written by Allah. The bible should not come even half as close to being as true as the Quran should be.

It's no surprise that you think converting to Catholicism would be a foolish move, when you are so ignorant of Christianity that you think the Bible was written by Constantine. If you want to reject Christianity, and claim that Muhammad is in the line of Judeo-Christian prophets, you better do some serious studying, because to first reject something you must understand it.


Pax et bonum,
Sojourn

[Sojourn]

Pax tecum Amadeus,

Just wanted to let you know I like your avatar :)

[Ramadhan]

Peace ChOcCi



I am someone who has reverted to Catholicism and I'll be the first to say that my reversion was a bit rocky.

out of curiosity, what were you before you converted to catholicism?

[Al Ansari]

as I said, they should never be cast out, but it seems highly unlikely a muslim would regress-I don't mean to offend, but this is how I see it-to Christianity, after one is a Muslim, either you stay one, or you go agnostic/atheist, there is no way a person who truly understood the fundamentals of Islam would take stories about Jesus being God etc seriously. in a nutshell, factors other than pure faith/belief usually are the reason people leave Islam to Christianity in particular.

This saying reminds me of the saying of the beloved Prophet (saws) where he said that one would hate to return to unbelief as one would hate being thrown into a fire.

I agree, if one leaves Islam and understood the fundamentals, there is no logical way he can go to Christianity. If one doesn't see Islaam as the truth, then there is no truth.

[Sojourn]

there is no way a person who truly understood the fundamentals of Islam would take stories about Jesus being God etc seriously. in a nutshell, factors other than pure faith/belief usually are the reason people leave Islam to Christianity in particular.

I see no reason why God could not take on human nature if He so willed, it's fully consistent with His omnipotence to do such a thing, so I don't see the difficulty. On the other hand, I don't see how a well informed Christian could ever come to accept that Jesus was never crucified. Muhammad's rejection of the crucifixion and his seeming not knowing of its significance, is one of the biggest reasons why I personally don't accept his prophethood. To put it in perspective, it would be like me saying the whole story of Muhammad's hijra to Yathrib was a myth created by later Muslims.

[Eliphaz]

I see no reason why God could not take on human nature if He so willed, it's fully consistent with His omnipotence to do such a thing, so I don't see the difficulty. On the other hand, I don't see how a well informed Christian could ever come to accept that Jesus was never crucified. Muhammad's rejection of the crucifixion and his seeming not knowing of its significance, is one of the biggest reasons why I personally don't accept his prophethood. To put it in perspective, it would be like me saying the whole story of Muhammad's hijra to Yathrib was a myth created by later Muslims.

I wouldn't say Muslims talk down the significance of the crucifixion. But in our belief there is no more significance to the crucifixion and Jesus being lifted up to Heaven than, say, the pagans burning Abraham in the fire and him not getting burned, (except that Jesus will be returning as the Messiah). Both are miracles and Muslims do not deny this. The Christians have turned the crucifixion into a mechanism for God's forgiveness when, in your own words, consistent with the omnipotence of God, surely He should not need such a 'mechanism' to forgive?

[Sojourn]

Peace Omar,

I wouldn't say Muslims talk down the significance of the crucifixion.

The crucifixion and resurrection are integral to Christianity. The Quran doesn't rebuke Christians for believing in the redemption, it doesn't rebuke them for believing in the resurrection. The one time the Quran denies the crucifixion is in response to Jews who were boasting that they killed him. It's strange to me, as an outside reader, that the Quran would not address the very essence of the Christian message.

The Christians have turned the crucifixion into a mechanism for God's forgiveness

Before I reverted to Christianity one of the most powerful pieces of evidence for the crucifixion and redemption were the Old Testament prophecies of the suffering Messiah. It showed me that suffering and death were something that must befall Him, and that this would somehow cleanse us of our sins.

"But he was wounded for our transgressions;
he was crushed for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
and with his stripes we are healed."
Isaiah 53:5

Clearly, the earl Christians did not add this into the book of Isaiah, it was always there and Christ fulfilled it. So again, I can't stress how significant it is that the Quran rejects the crucifixion, and does not addres the imprortance behind it.

when, in your own words, consistent with the omnipotence of God, surely He should not need such a 'mechanism' to forgive?

We don't say He *needed* to suffer. God could have snapped his fingers, so to speak, and we would have been restored. But it is consistent with justice, and we know God loves what is right, that man's sin be somehow satisfied for and overturned. The difficulty is that Adam and Eve enjoyed a relationship with God that was a gift, a nearness that could not be earned. Since their transgression offended the infinite and perfect God, what deed could be done to satisfy for the sin? The fact is no work of man, which is finite and imperfect, could ever appease the perfect and majestic God. It would really take a God-man to offer an act of atonemen on behalf of man, and make that act infinite and perfect, so as to satisfy for sin and redeem mankind. What's interesting is that the theologians recognized that the God-man did not have suffer, He could have simply incarnated and then ascended back into heaven, and this alone would have sufficed. One tear from the Infant Christ could redeemded mankind an infinite amount of times over. So what really happened here, is that the God-man took an extra step, a step that went so far that He suffered a horrible death for our sake. Now if you believe God to be a Master and us His slaves, it will be very difficult for you to accept such a thing, because why would a Master suffer for his slaves? But Christians believe God is not merely loving, but that He *is* Love, and that His love for each and everyone us is incomprehensible. It is precisely this act of love that motived that early Martyrs to undergoe their grewling deaths, even young Christian girls were willing be torn to pieces by lions for the sake of Christ. Only God could inspire such zeal, and in the words of the Apostle John, we love God because God loved us first.


Pax,
Sojourn

[ardianto]

From what i've seen, if a person left Islam and tell about it to the whole world (plus talking bad thing about Islam)... he/she will become a celebrity and protected by western nations...

But Indonesians who left Islam never become celebrities but still in their poverty.
Usually, if Indonesians left Islam that because they live in poverty. Then came non-muslims who offered them instant noodles, sugars, or jobs in non-skilled posts if they agree to leave Islam.

And in opposite side. We can't say Indonesians non-muslims who convert to Islam become celebrities, because .......... they are celebrities. Some of famous Indonesian celebrities are mualaf (person who convert to Islam).

Difference between Indonesian who left Islam and came to Islam is :
- Indonesians who left Islam usually poor and non/low educated people.
- Indonesians who came to Islam usually rich (at least not poor) and educated people.