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View Full Version : What kind of attitude of this? -Bashing Islam is a dangerous sign



Humbler_359
10-03-2009, 12:39 AM
:sl:

I demand Christians members here to confess their hatred against Islam, I want to know what's going on inside the taught of "Dove World" Church and its extremists. What kind of these attitude toward Islam? DO they really love neighbors ?


That's an unfair generalization and entirely hypocritical. Please be Grow up and learn more about real true Islam.

Bashing Islam is a dangerous sign

The school year started off with an unpleasant bang in Gainesville, Fla., when a fifth-grader showed up on the first day wearing a T-shirt with "Islam is of the Devil" inscribed on the back.

Administrators sent the 10-year-old home to change clothes. But the next day several other students at two high schools and a middle school arrived wearing the same message. All were told to cover it up or go home.

The local church responsible for the T-shirt, Dove World Outreach Center, is unapologetic about the school campaign. Church members had already erected a sign on church property proclaiming "Islam is of the Devil" to passersby. According to the pastor, the church has a Christian duty to expose Islam as a "violent and oppressive religion." (Btw, what did your priests and pastors says about Islam in your Church today?)

Missing no opportunity to drive the message home, Dove World marked the 8th anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist attacks with a rally to whip up outrage - not at what some extremists did in the name of Islam, but at Islam itself.

Under the First Amendment, Dove World has the right to proclaim its beliefs about Islam, no matter how much it offends others. But the kids in the congregation may have to wait until after school to put on the T-shirts.

Students do have some free-speech rights in schools. But the Supreme Court has repeatedly upheld the authority of school officials to draw the line at student speech that they can reasonably forecast will cause a substantial disruption. It's very likely that the Dove World T-shirt crosses that line, especially since Muslim students attend Gainesville schools.

Beyond the constitutional issues, however, the controversy points to the larger, more difficult question of how we engage one another in a public square that is increasingly poisoned by hatred and division. Dove World's anti-Islam initiative is not unique. Post-9/11, a growing number of churches inspired by some evangelical leaders such as Ron Paisley and Pat Robertson have condemned Islam in harsh terms. As Robertson puts it, terrorists don't distort Islam - they are "carrying out Islam."

Apart from the fact that these ugly generalizations are distortions of Islamic teachings and wildly misrepresent the views of the vast majority of the world's 1 billion Muslims, Islam-bashing on this scale threatens American Muslims and undermines the common good.

It's impossible to measure the effect of anti-Islam rhetoric on those who take it to the next level and commit acts of violence. But we do know that attacks targeting Muslim Americans are a significant problem across the country. Last month, for example, a Philadelphia business owned by Muslim Palestinian-Americans was ransacked and covered with angry graffiti telling the owners to "go home." And in Smithtown, N.Y., a man was arrested for threatening to kill a Muslim mother and her daughter and trying to run them down with his car. Both incidents are being investigated as hate crimes.

Most Americans recognize the problem. According to a recent survey by the Pew Research Center, nearly six in 10 adults say U.S. Muslims are subject to more discrimination than any other major religious group.

Back in Gainesville, some local residents living near Dove World are countering the anti-Islam message by speaking up for their Muslim neighbors and fellow citizens. Soon after the first sign went up in July, an interfaith group of Christians, Jews and others gathered in front of the church to protest intolerance and call for mutual respect.

On a national level, many Christian and Jewish leaders - including some leading evangelical ministers - have reached out to Muslims by calling for peaceful coexistence and mutual understanding. In fact, Southern Baptist Pastor Rick Warren delivered a message of reconciliation between Christians and Muslims to the annual convention of the Islamic Society of North America in July, around the time Dove World was erecting its sign.

"You know as an evangelical pastor, my deepest faith is in Jesus Christ," Warren told a crowd of some 8,000 Muslim Americans. "But you also need to know that I am committed not just to what I call the good news, but I am committed to the common good."

Warren then defined what Americans share across our differences: "America is a country not built on race, not built on a creed, but built on an idea - liberty and justice for all."

Source


As I (Humbler_359) said earlier, Keep in mind, the racism was happened many times throughout history, yesterday it was talked about black people, today it is talk about Muslims, and tomorrow will be rise of China and its people....

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ardianto
10-03-2009, 05:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Humbler_359
:sl:

I demand Christians members here to confess their hatred against Islam, I want to know what's going on inside the taught of "Dove World" Church and its extremists. What kind of these attitude toward Islam? DO they really love neighbors ?
You can demand Dove World Church and its extremist explain their stupid action. But you cannot accuse Christian members here hate Islam. Christian in this forum are not people who worn those T-shirts.

Just imagine, what do you feel if a Muslims in other place mocks Christian religion, and Christian near you ask your responsibility ?.

Not every Christian hates Muslim, not every Muslim hates Christian.
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Humbler_359
10-03-2009, 05:35 PM
:sl: brother,

Yes you are correct... We have to condemn this irresponsible behaviors as well as some irresponsible Muslims extremists. However, I see some of christian members here trying to twist Islam and try to deceive us..... They make us to think Islam wrong religion and don't give up their arguments. Have you read in comparative religion thread?

Wasalaam!





Is this true?

Source
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Asiyah3
10-03-2009, 05:36 PM
I agree with ardianto.

Anyway, those people's attitude is very evil, malicious and mean. I kinda laughed at this:

""America is a country not built on race, not built on a creed, but built on an idea - liberty and justice for all."

Actions tell me more than words
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Pygoscelis
10-17-2009, 10:11 PM
Isn't "Islam is of the Devil" normal christian dogma? Doesn't the bible say that only the Christian God is true and isn't the first commandment "thou shalt have no gods before me". And doesn't christianity then go on to claim that the only way to God is through Jesus? Seems to me that this sign isn't saying anything the least bit unchristian and I see nothing wrong with calling christianity and christians on it.

On the same note, doesn't Islam claim that there is no God but Allah and that Mohammed is his prophet? And wouldn't anybody trying to fight against Islam or lead people to some other religion be seen as an agent of Shaytan (or however your muslims spell it)?

I see the above because as an atheist I have frequently been told since I was a child that I was an agent of evil or a follower of Satan simply for not following Christianity. Monotheism is inherently exclusive and leads to the kind of tribalism and ingroup/outgroup hate that you sense in the photos you posted.
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alcurad
10-17-2009, 10:19 PM
^all 'groups' are by definition exclusive..

depends on how that exclusiveness is expressed, otherwise humans are always tribal if given the chance.
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GuestFellow
10-17-2009, 10:28 PM
I'm pretty sure I already posted here...or is it me?

Not all Christians hate Islam. Yes Christians and Muslims disagree on some things but that doesn't mean they hate us or Islam. The Christians on this forum don't hate us at all.

LOL those pictures are funny...



These ones.
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Danah
10-17-2009, 10:32 PM
This is really funny!
Didn't those people learned from the many lessons they already had?

The more they show hatred to Islam the more attention they draw to Islam!!! and the result is tons of people becoming Muslims !!
SubhanaAllah!! What a great religion is this, the more hatred shown by those extremists, the more popularity this amazing religion become.
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Woodrow
10-17-2009, 11:06 PM
While I disagree with Christianity, I do not believe the members of "Dove World" represent Christianity.

I disagree with the members of "Dove World" because they are prejudiced bigots and it makes no difference what belief they claim to follow.

They represent "Dove World" not any established religion.
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gang4
10-18-2009, 06:15 AM
I wouldn't be surprised the 'Dove World' has some sort of financial problems. To them, 'Bashing-Islam' is a good advertising strategy to promote themselves.

They even refused to bear the cost... a cheap sign for a cheap shot yet it is quite effective getting TV coverage and all... They sold out against their own scripture (to be good to your neighbor etc) for a small price....
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syilla
10-19-2009, 02:02 AM
there are so many kind of people...and so many kinds of hatred...and especially you can see it in the internet....

and i hate to accidently bump into one of those weird website *uwaaaaaaaaaaaa....... (sorry... i still feeling sick of remembering those websites)
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titus
10-21-2009, 06:04 AM
Disagreement does not equal hatred.

"Dove World" does not equal Christianity.

Read the last four or five paragraphs if you want the most common Christian attitude about groups like this.
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glo
10-21-2009, 06:41 AM
I posted in this thread before, but the post was zapped when the forum crashed recently.

I agree with Woodrow and titus.
This church certainly does not represent my personal views, nor do I know any other Christians who would agree with them.
It simply does not represent mainstream Christianity.

I am heartened by the Christians who participated in the counter-demonstrations, and those who spoke out against the views expressed by Dove World church.

For every act of hatred, there should be an act of love and reconciliation.
We must never give up the struggle for peace and understanding - however tough it might seem at times ...

Salaam
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AbdullahSyed
10-23-2009, 12:04 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Isn't "Islam is of the Devil" normal christian dogma? Doesn't the bible say that only the Christian God is true and isn't the first commandment "thou shalt have no gods before me". And doesn't christianity then go on to claim that the only way to God is through Jesus? Seems to me that this sign isn't saying anything the least bit unchristian and I see nothing wrong with calling christianity and christians on it.

On the same note, doesn't Islam claim that there is no God but Allah and that Mohammed is his prophet? And wouldn't anybody trying to fight against Islam or lead people to some other religion be seen as an agent of Shaytan (or however your muslims spell it)?

I see the above because as an atheist I have frequently been told since I was a child that I was an agent of evil or a follower of Satan simply for not following Christianity. Monotheism is inherently exclusive and leads to the kind of tribalism and ingroup/outgroup hate that you sense in the photos you posted.

You seem to be the only one "Telling it like it is" on this Thread.
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glo
10-29-2009, 08:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Isn't "Islam is of the Devil" normal christian dogma? Doesn't the bible say that only the Christian God is true and isn't the first commandment "thou shalt have no gods before me". And doesn't christianity then go on to claim that the only way to God is through Jesus? Seems to me that this sign isn't saying anything the least bit unchristian and I see nothing wrong with calling christianity and christians on it.

On the same note, doesn't Islam claim that there is no God but Allah and that Mohammed is his prophet? And wouldn't anybody trying to fight against Islam or lead people to some other religion be seen as an agent of Shaytan (or however your muslims spell it)?
You are not wrong.

As a Christian I believe that Islam is not the true path. We may have many similarities and common goals, but according to MY religion at least in certain aspects Muslims are misinformed at best and deceived at worst.

Most Muslim probably think similarly about me and my faith, and many have said so. Those areas in which Christianity corresponds with Islam are true - the rest is false, corrupted or simply fabricated.

Many atheists have similar views about believers and feel that those who believe in God(s) are deluded and misinformed.

The issue isn't so much what we believe about each other - we all have out own thoughts and beliefs, depending on our own circumstances, our upbringing, our personal beliefs etc.
What matters more is how we interact with each other and how we treat each other.

Describing people as being 'of the devil' doesn't exactly do much to show love and friendship to our neighbours.


Having said that, I have wondered about the picture of the young Muslim lad, holding a sign saying 'I am a Muslim. Please don't HATE me.'
I haven't read too much about Dove World Church (and perhaps I should read some more), but I haven't seen anywhere that they are calling people to hate Muslims. Instead rather they speak against Islam as a religion.

Do you think there is a difference?
Can you not dislike Christianity, but be friendly with those who follow it?
Can you not believe Islam to be wrong, but still call Muslims your friends?
Can you not disagree with atheism as a worldview, but still socialize with atheists?
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The_Prince
10-29-2009, 08:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
You are not wrong.

As a Christian I believe that Islam is not the true path. We may have many similarities and common goals, but according to MY religion at least in certain aspects Muslims are misinformed at best and deceived at worst.

Most Muslim probably think similarly about me and my faith, and many have said so. Those areas in which Christianity corresponds with Islam are true - the rest is false, corrupted or simply fabricated.

Many atheists have similar views about believers and feel that those who believe in God(s) are deluded and misinformed.

The issue isn't so much what we believe about each other - we all have out own thoughts and beliefs, depending on our own circumstances, our upbringing, our personal beliefs etc.
What matters more is how we interact with each other and how we treat each other.

Describing people as being 'of the devil' doesn't exactly do much to show love and friendship to our neighbours.


Having said that, I have wondered about the picture of the young Muslim lad, holding a sign saying 'I am a Muslim. Please don't HATE me.'
I haven't read too much about Dove World Church (and perhaps I should read some more), but I haven't seen anywhere that they are calling people to hate Muslims. Instead rather they speak against Islam as a religion.

Do you think there is a difference?
Can you not dislike Christianity, but be friendly with those who follow it?
Can you not believe Islam to be wrong, but still call Muslims your friends?
Can you not disagree with atheism as a worldview, but still socialize with atheists?
no you cant, any fool that comes up to me saying Islam is of the devillllllllllllll and you worship a pedophile bla bla cant be my friend. hes my number 1 enemy.

furthermore if Islam is of the devil, and im a follower of Islam, then that means im a devil worshiper! so the supposed attack on my 'belief' is also an attack on me.

Christians have been getting away with lots of hate messages and hate provocation by playing this game of oooooooooo were just attacking your beliefs, not the person, we love you!!!!!!!! thats complete BS, i have run across so many of these Christians and the second u start arguing back they start calling you a muzzie, rag head, devil worshiper etc etc etc.

lastly, theres a difference between disagreeing with somebody and going out there by completly insulting the persons belief, having a sign saying Islam is of the devil is not how you go about disagreeing with someone and having a nice convo and then going out over a cup of tea!
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glo
10-29-2009, 08:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince
furthermore if Islam is of the devil, and im a follower of Islam, then that means im a devil worshiper! so the supposed attack on my 'belief' is also an attack on me.
I wouldn't agree with that.
The statement that 'Islam is of the devil' suggests to me a belief that Muhammed may have been deceived by Satan - but not that all Muslims worship the devil.


lastly, theres a difference between disagreeing with somebody and going out there by completly insulting the persons belief, having a sign saying Islam is of the devil is not how you go about disagreeing with someone and having a nice convo and then going out over a cup of tea!
I agree that the statement made by this church is entirely unhelpful in building relationships and healthy communities.
Like I said in my previous post: "Describing people as being 'of the devil' doesn't exactly do much to show love and friendship to our neighbours."


Christians have been getting away with lots of hate messages and hate provocation by playing this game of oooooooooo were just attacking your beliefs, not the person, we love you!!!!!!!! thats complete BS, i have run across so many of these Christians and the second u start arguing back they start calling you a muzzie, rag head, devil worshiper etc etc etc.
I am sorry that that has been your experience.
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Pygoscelis
10-30-2009, 02:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince
no you cant, any fool that comes up to me saying Islam is of the devillllllllllllll and you worship a pedophile bla bla cant be my friend. hes my number 1 enemy.
As an atheist I'm used to hearing this sort of thing, its right in the Bible. You don't need to have a nasty agenda as a christian or twist or make anything up to say such things about atheists or muslims. I posted in this thread as a counterpoint to all the people trying to soften the message earlier in the thread. What the church said is not in the least bit un-christian. It is directly in the spirit of the bible. We, the non-christians are to be eternally punished in hellfire for not holding the Christian god as the only God and for not accepting Jesus as our only path to God. You can't soften that message without hiding what the religion is truly about.

And don't try to pretend Islam is a whole lot different in this regard. As an atheist I can see both sides of this coin.

I do agree with the point Glo made however, the sign does not say to hate muslims. It is just a warning not to become one, on a church bulletin board in a christian area (aimed more at christians than the muslims who happen to see it). Its like the threat of hell, more designed to keep believers than to attract new ones.
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ardianto
10-30-2009, 03:30 AM
Enemy : Muslim is devil worshiper.

Muslim : Who said I'm worshiping you ?.
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Rabi Mansur
10-30-2009, 03:49 AM
:sl:

People fear what they don't understand. I live in the Northwest of the USA. Most people I know do not understand the basic tenets of Islam at all. They think you are all terrorists or terrorist sympathizers and they cannot understand how anyone could be Muslim. They believe Israel is always 100% right and the Palestinians are 100% wrong and are either terrorists or terrorist sympathizers. I believe that if the Christians I know actually knew more Muslims a lot of the problem would go away.

I know people who are atheists and others who are agnostics. They are good, ethical people. But many of the religious people I know don't understand them and think they must be tools of the devil.

Most of the posts I have read on this forum are very good, and in general I think most people here are very good people and very tolerant, trying to do the will of God. But i have also read some hate come from Muslims that has really surprised me and sickened me at times.

Sometimes I have to wonder if religion does more harm than good. If all sides would just take the time to understand each other a lot of the bashing would go away. It seems that religion can really pull people apart.

Just a few observations.

:cry:
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The_Prince
10-30-2009, 04:11 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
As an atheist I'm used to hearing this sort of thing, its right in the Bible. You don't need to have a nasty agenda as a christian or twist or make anything up to say such things about atheists or muslims. I posted in this thread as a counterpoint to all the people trying to soften the message earlier in the thread. What the church said is not in the least bit un-christian. It is directly in the spirit of the bible. We, the non-christians are to be eternally punished in hellfire for not holding the Christian god as the only God and for not accepting Jesus as our only path to God. You can't soften that message without hiding what the religion is truly about.

And don't try to pretend Islam is a whole lot different in this regard. As an atheist I can see both sides of this coin.

I do agree with the point Glo made however, the sign does not say to hate muslims. It is just a warning not to become one, on a church bulletin board in a christian area (aimed more at christians than the muslims who happen to see it). Its like the threat of hell, more designed to keep believers than to attract new ones.
Islam does condemn none-Muslims, i agree, and sometimes does mock and even insult them, thats true, however so, the Q is whether those comments in the Quran are general towards ALL NONE MUSLIMS or restrictive and specific to certain types of none-Muslims? if you read the Quran with context, you will find that the Quran always has a specific group of people when making a claim, for instance some none-Muslims are called the worst of BEASTS! and its often said that this refers to ALL NONE MUSLIMS, yet within context the Quran makes itself clear that its refering to liars and hypocrites, people who intentionally lie and act as a hypocrite, and number 2, people who used to break their covenents and agreements with the Muslims in order to gain an upper hand over them etc etc.
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The_Prince
10-30-2009, 04:15 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by rabimansur
:sl:

People fear what they don't understand. I live in the Northwest of the USA. Most people I know do not understand the basic tenets of Islam at all. They think you are all terrorists or terrorist sympathizers and they cannot understand how anyone could be Muslim. They believe Israel is always 100% right and the Palestinians are 100% wrong and are either terrorists or terrorist sympathizers. I believe that if the Christians I know actually knew more Muslims a lot of the problem would go away.

I know people who are atheists and others who are agnostics. They are good, ethical people. But many of the religious people I know don't understand them and think they must be tools of the devil.

Most of the posts I have read on this forum are very good, and in general I think most people here are very good people and very tolerant, trying to do the will of God. But i have also read some hate come from Muslims that has really surprised me and sickened me at times.

Sometimes I have to wonder if religion does more harm than good. If all sides would just take the time to understand each other a lot of the bashing would go away. It seems that religion can really pull people apart.

Just a few observations.

:cry:
erm i suggest u go to youtube where atheists and seculars happen to be the major players and major force, and click on many of their popular users with hundreds of thousands of subscribers and video views, and just see how lovelyyyyyyyy and tolerant they are towards theists!

lastly, the biggest murders and genocide to have taken place in recent history took place in stalin russia and maoist china, two ATHEIST COMMUNIST COUNTRIES, hence plz dont blindly delude yourself by secular atheist propaganda that ohhhhhhh a world with no religion would be a much better happier place, history, RECENT HISTORY shows thats quite false.
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Woodrow
10-30-2009, 04:22 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by rabimansur
:sl:

People fear what they don't understand. I live in the Northwest of the USA. Most people I know do not understand the basic tenets of Islam at all. They think you are all terrorists or terrorist sympathizers and they cannot understand how anyone could be Muslim. They believe Israel is always 100% right and the Palestinians are 100% wrong and are either terrorists or terrorist sympathizers. I believe that if the Christians I know actually knew more Muslims a lot of the problem would go away.

I know people who are atheists and others who are agnostics. They are good, ethical people. But many of the religious people I know don't understand them and think they must be tools of the devil.

Most of the posts I have read on this forum are very good, and in general I think most people here are very good people and very tolerant, trying to do the will of God. But i have also read some hate come from Muslims that has really surprised me and sickened me at times.

Sometimes I have to wonder if religion does more harm than good. If all sides would just take the time to understand each other a lot of the bashing would go away. It seems that religion can really pull people apart.

Just a few observations.

:cry:
Fear is all too often the door way to hatred.

I doubt if any non-Muslim living in the Northwestern USA has every been physically harmed by any Muslims living there. Yet, there are sizable numbers of Muslims in Seattle and Vancouver.

We do need to get to know each other and learn that the majority of either group poses no physical threat to the other.
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KAding
10-30-2009, 04:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince
no you cant, any fool that comes up to me saying Islam is of the devillllllllllllll and you worship a pedophile bla bla cant be my friend. hes my number 1 enemy.

furthermore if Islam is of the devil, and im a follower of Islam, then that means im a devil worshiper! so the supposed attack on my 'belief' is also an attack on me.
But these things are unavoidable. Just open up the Qu'ran and you'll see that I - as an unbeliever - get called lots of nasty things. Heck, I'm so wicked I'm supposed going to burn in Hell for it for eternity. One can hardly demand others adhere to a non-confrontational approach of not criticizing Islam if Islamic sources don't do the same.
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Rabi Mansur
10-30-2009, 05:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
Fear is all too often the door way to hatred.

I doubt if any non-Muslim living in the Northwestern USA has every been physically harmed by any Muslims living there. Yet, there are sizable numbers of Muslims in Seattle and Vancouver.

We do need to get to know each other and learn that the majority of either group poses no physical threat to the other.
Ameen to that.

It is human nature to fear what is not understood.

:salaam:
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alcurad
10-30-2009, 10:01 PM
KAding, all will get what they deserve, God is not unjust.

disbelief that is not antagonistic to belief, and that is reached through personal choice is not the same as what the qur'an mostly condemns, try reading entire passages and chapters and you'll see my words are true, ie. read within context and you'll gain more understanding :)
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julesfly
10-30-2009, 10:50 PM
gang4 you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned their finances.

“‘Hear this, I pray you, ye heads of the house of Jacob, and princes of the house of Israel...the heads thereof judge for reward, and the priests thereof teach for hire, and the prophets thereof divine for money: yet will they lean upon the Lord, and say, Is not the Lord among us? none evil can come upon us. Therefore shall Zion for your sake be plowed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house as the high places of the forest’ (Micah 3:9-12). Notice that the word of judgment is to the Heads, Princes, Priests, and Prophets. It is the leadership that is making merchandise of the house of God! Mystery Babylon in Revelation 17 has made a league with the ‘merchants’ and the ‘kings’ of the earth. They all love Babylon because Babylon has made them rich! She is the answer to their lust for MONEY. The apostle Paul ran into this same love for money when the makers and sellers of idols in Ephesus caused a riot among the people because Paul’s preaching put fear in their hearts that their craft of making silver idols to the Goddess Diana would dry up. Their concern was the making of MONEY, not in truth or error. You can be sure that the same concerns are in the leaders of the modern Fundamental Church. When faced with truth that doesn’t profit them financially they will suddenly grow very fervent in their fight against heresy. In truth they are seeing a financial risk in preaching things that demand the people to do more than sit in their pews and ‘Amen’ the preacher and pay their tithes and offerings. The concern is over MONEY, not heresy!
At least, to my knowledge anyway, Muslims are not asked to pay for their blessings as with these American churches who run 24hours on sattelite t.v with the message 'tis more blessed to give than to recieve'.
Unless of course you count alms to the poor!
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Karl
10-31-2009, 04:39 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by rabimansur
:sl:

Sometimes I have to wonder if religion does more harm than good. If all sides would just take the time to understand each other a lot of the bashing would go away. It seems that religion can really pull people apart.

Just a few observations.

:cry:
You don't need a religion to be evil. Atheists tend to be the most intolerant bigots on Earth. Secularism dominates modern Western society and they are the worst for starting wars. They are chronic intolerant fascists and dictate every aspect of peoples' private lives. For one example, compulsory "education"(the euphemism for state indoctrination) :raging:
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Pygoscelis
11-01-2009, 02:39 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Karl
You don't need a religion to be evil. Atheists tend to be the most intolerant bigots on Earth. Secularism dominates modern Western society and they are the worst for starting wars. They are chronic intolerant fascists and dictate every aspect of peoples' private lives. For one example, compulsory "education"(the euphemism for state indoctrination) :raging:
We eat babies too. I like mine with plum sauce.
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Rabi Mansur
11-01-2009, 08:33 AM
You don't need a religion to be evil. Atheists tend to be the most intolerant bigots on Earth. Secularism dominates modern Western society and they are the worst for starting wars. They are chronic intolerant fascists and dictate every aspect of peoples' private lives. For one example, compulsory "education"(the euphemism for state indoctrination
:sl:
Where I live, people believe that Muslims are the most intolerant bigots on earth. Seriously. They watch TV and see Muslims blowing the world up out of hate for the West. Radical Islam. It appears totally irrational. They have never been exposed to the other side of Islam, the peaceful side, that I have seen. They fear Islam because they don't understand it.

My experience with atheists is that they are extremely tolerant. The atheists I know personally are very ethical. In fact, I don't know any intolerant atheists. I also don't personally know any intolerant Muslims but I've seen some on the internet. Most of the Christians I know are very tolerant, but there are exceptions to that too just as I am sure there are intolerant Muslims out there and some intolerant atheists.

I have to disagree with your generalization that atheists tend to be intolerant. You are painting with too broad a brush IMHO. You really believe that atheists are more intolerant than theists? There are intolerant people of all stripes.
:wa:
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Rabi Mansur
11-01-2009, 08:50 AM
erm i suggest u go to youtube where atheists and seculars happen to be the major players and major force, and click on many of their popular users with hundreds of thousands of subscribers and video views, and just see how lovelyyyyyyyy and tolerant they are towards theists!

lastly, the biggest murders and genocide to have taken place in recent history took place in stalin russia and maoist china, two ATHEIST COMMUNIST COUNTRIES, hence plz dont blindly delude yourself by secular atheist propaganda that ohhhhhhh a world with no religion would be a much better happier place, history, RECENT HISTORY shows thats quite false.


I agree there are a lot of sick people out there. They are afraid of Islam and lashing out. I have been attacked for sympathizing with Muslims on facebook. I know there is a lot of hate out there. But it comes from all sides.
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Pygoscelis
11-01-2009, 08:58 AM
Atheists can be intolerant, sure, but not due to atheism. There is no atheist dogma telling them not to yoke themselves with the religious or that all non-atheists deserver an eternal torment of hellfire. There is no atheist church at which you will read a billboard as the one in the OP's photo.
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Woodrow
11-01-2009, 10:13 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Atheists can be intolerant, sure, but not due to atheism. There is no atheist dogma telling them not to yoke themselves with the religious or that all non-atheists deserver an eternal torment of hellfire. There is no atheist church at which you will read a billboard as the one in the OP's photo.

To be honest those of us who are theist have difficulty in comprehending the concept of no religion. At least I do. I know you will probably disagree with me and I do not speak for all theists, Just for myself. I see disbelief to be a religion, not an organized religion, but still a religion. I do see what I perceive to be an atheist dogma which is: "God does not exist" Like many dogmas that is an unchallengeable belief that requires no further explanation to the adherent. Just my opinion and personal view..


Now that I got that off my chest. I can not resist responding directly to this statement:

There is no atheist church at which you will read a billboard as the one in the OP's photo.
I've seen quite few blank billboards.
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Iris
11-01-2009, 04:16 PM
^I agree. Atheism is almost incomprehensible to me. How can people simply live with so many un-answered questions, beats me.
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Karl
11-01-2009, 09:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Iris
^I agree. Atheism is almost incomprehensible to me. How can people simply live with so many un-answered questions, beats me.
Atheists tend to worship the State and the religion of Political Correctness, they are a very Socialist lot. They have to do everything as a democratic collective. You would think that someone who is Godless would be totally free and self ruling e.g. Anarchist, but no the politicians (Big Brother) are their prophets and the Media is their church. They are incredibly self oppressed and have more rules and regulations than a thousand Holy Books.
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Supreme
11-01-2009, 10:38 PM
I think the main problem with atheists is the difficulty they have in accepting that there is a higher power than themselves.
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Karl
11-01-2009, 11:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme
I think the main problem with atheists is the difficulty they have in accepting that there is a higher power than themselves.
Exactly. That's why atheists are so self righteous, arrogant and pontificating and act as though they ARE God. It is not as if they have abandoned religion, they have merely usurped Gods' supremacy and replaced His glorious rule.
Like the godless scum that overthrew the King of France in 1789, which sent the world into a new dark age of evil anti-christ totalitarian political systems.
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Karl
11-02-2009, 12:18 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by rabimansur
:sl:
Where I live, people believe that Muslims are the most intolerant bigots on earth. Seriously. They watch TV and see Muslims blowing the world up out of hate for the West. Radical Islam. It appears totally irrational. They have never been exposed to the other side of Islam, the peaceful side, that I have seen. They fear Islam because they don't understand it.

My experience with atheists is that they are extremely tolerant. The atheists I know personally are very ethical. In fact, I don't know any intolerant atheists. I also don't personally know any intolerant Muslims but I've seen some on the internet. Most of the Christians I know are very tolerant, but there are exceptions to that too just as I am sure there are intolerant Muslims out there and some intolerant atheists.

I have to disagree with your generalization that atheists tend to be intolerant. You are painting with too broad a brush IMHO. You really believe that atheists are more intolerant than theists? There are intolerant people of all stripes.
:wa:
I associate atheism with intolerance because today's mainstream form of it arrogantly interferes into peoples private lives. Most atheists do not respect the maxim "A man's house is his castle". Atheist governments are bolshy and power hungry, and they are responsible for 1984 big brother government which tries to dictate more and more aspects of our private lives. They do this insidiously and chip away at our personal freedoms by attrition. They will ruthlessly stamp out anything they don't happen to like. Another very interesting thing I have noticed about atheists is that the vast majority seem to be chronic lefties and busybody global socialists. Their obnoxious Marxist intoxication has become a religion unto itself. There are many traditional rituals and practices of religion that the atheists have outlawed, and they continue to push their limits, more and more, every day. If atheists respected different cultures and religions and said "hey, you do your thing and we'll do ours", then yes I would call that tolerant, but that is NOT the case. I'm not speaking about every single atheist, just the vast majority I have observed.
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Supreme
11-02-2009, 12:23 AM
Karl, do you know who Richard Dawkins is? I know as a Christian I shouldn't hate anybody, but let's just say I strongly dislike the man's views on religion.
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The_Prince
11-02-2009, 06:06 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme
Karl, do you know who Richard Dawkins is? I know as a Christian I shouldn't hate anybody, but let's just say I strongly dislike the man's views on religion.
your not the only one.

BUT in all fairness, there are quite a few atheists who dislike him too, and disagree with his approach. then again many atheists do also support his style and approach, and even think like him!
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Uthman
11-02-2009, 08:40 AM
Please stick to the topic, folks. :)
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Pygoscelis
11-02-2009, 12:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
To be honest those of us who are theist have difficulty in comprehending the concept of no religion. At least I do. I know you will probably disagree with me and I do not speak for all theists, Just for myself. I see disbelief to be a religion, not an organized religion, but still a religion. I do see what I perceive to be an atheist dogma which is: "God does not exist" Like many dogmas that is an unchallengeable belief that requires no further explanation to the adherent. Just my opinion and personal view..
I suppose that depends on how you define "religion". It is an answer to the question of religion. But it is not a belief system (its just one belief) and doesn't have dogma or ritual or holy books or prophets etc.

Lumping atheists together as a group doesn't really compute. Its like lumping people who don't believe in astrology together as a group. Its why "atheist groups" that people try to start rarely get off the ground and never go very far. Atheists only see themselves as atheists when there are religious people around and the topic is religion. In contrast, muslims always see themselves as muslims and have a whole system to live their lives by to adhere to due to being muslim.

And to come back on topic, as I said above, there is no atheist dogma or prophet or book so atheism itself can't lead to billboards like the one above. Some individual atheists may be nasty people, but it can't be said to come from their atheism.

Atheism doesn't tell you not to associate or be "yoked" with non-atheists. Christianity and I believe Islam do. Atheism doesn't tell you that non-atheists deserve eternal hellfire. Both Christianity and Islam do. Atheism doesn't tell you that certain groups of people, such as homosexuals, are deviants, etc. Should a given atheist believe any of that, its for completely different reasons.
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Woodrow
11-02-2009, 02:22 PM
I hope you agree we are both stating our personal opinions and neither of us speaks for all people of our own beliefs/disbeliefs.



format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
I suppose that depends on how you define "religion". It is an answer to the question of religion. But it is not a belief system (its just one belief) and doesn't have dogma or ritual or holy books or prophets etc.
Yes, we do seem to define religion differently.

format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Lumping atheists together as a group doesn't really compute. Its like lumping people who don't believe in astrology together as a group. Its why "atheist groups" that people try to start rarely get off the ground and never go very far. Atheists only see themselves as atheists when there are religious people around and the topic is religion. In contrast, muslims always see themselves as muslims and have a whole system to live their lives by to adhere to due to being muslim.
Here we will have difficulty in understanding each other. Admittedly I do see all atheists as being part of the same "group" But, hopefully I also see the individuals within the group as having differences from others in the same group.

format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
And to come back on topic, as I said above, there is no atheist dogma or prophet or book so atheism itself can't lead to billboards like the one above. Some individual atheists may be nasty people, but it can't be said to come from their atheism.
Here I disagree. I will concede that being an atheist does not dictate that a person will be a nasty person and will even admit I know atheists who are very nice people. However, I see atheism as an incentive to embrace hedonism, even though not all atheists do.

format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Atheism doesn't tell you not to associate or be "yoked" with non-atheists. Christianity and I believe Islam do. Atheism doesn't tell you that non-atheists deserve eternal hellfire. Both Christianity and Islam do. Atheism doesn't tell you that certain groups of people, such as homosexuals, are deviants, etc. Should a given atheist believe any of that, its for completely different reasons.
In a simplistic view Islam tells us all people deserve hell fire, not just Atheists. But, it gives us a path to avoid what we truly deserve. Call it fire prevention tools.While the tools are freely available, a person has to use them to do any good.

While there is no written doctrine that tells atheists not to associate with non-Atheists, People do tend to develop stronger association with those who have similar beliefs.
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Karl
11-03-2009, 04:14 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme
Karl, do you know who Richard Dawkins is? I know as a Christian I shouldn't hate anybody, but let's just say I strongly dislike the man's views on religion.
I had a brief look at Dawkins profile, he is a false scientist. Darwin is a real scientist because he wrote The THEORY of evolution. Darwin never said it was a fact. Dawkins has belief in evolution, that is not scientifically valid. As a scientist you have to stick to FACTS not beliefs, evolution cannot be proven as there are no scientifically credible witnesses throughout the eons of time. There is no room for conjecture in science. Therefore I think Dawkins is a politically motivated stirrer.

Back to the thread... Bashing Islam is bashing Muslims is bashing people and people can bash back! :raging:
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Pygoscelis
11-03-2009, 12:09 PM
Dawkins is too beligerant even for me. I would recomment Daniel Dennett instead. Where Dawkins is argumentative Dennett is more informative.
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