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Güven
10-16-2009, 03:52 PM
Israel anger over Turkish TV show



Israel says the Turkish show portrayed men dressed as Israeli soldiers killing children

Avigdor Lieberman, Israel's foreign minister, has ordered officials to summon Turkey's ambassador in Israel and lodge a protest over a Turkish television series that Israel says portrays its soldiers murdering Palestinian children.

The move is the latest twist in worsening relations between the two countries which have traditionally had close defence ties.

An Israeli foreign ministry statement quoted Lieberman as saying that the programme, screened by Turkish state television, constituted incitement against Israel "at the most grave level".

Israeli television screened a clip on Wednesday that it said was from the series, showing an actor dressed as an Israeli soldier taking aim at a smiling young girl and shooting her in the chest from point-blank range.

'Deteriorating relations'


Israeli army radio said the show, about the tribulations of a Palestinian family, was aired on Tuesday on Turkey's TRT One channel and also depicted troops killing a Palestinian newborn baby delivered after its mother went into labour at an Israeli roadblock.

"A series like this, which has not the slightest connection with reality, which presents Israeli soldiers as the murderers of innocent children, would not be appropriate for broadcast even in an enemy country and certainly not in a state which maintains diplomatic relations with Israel," Lieberman said in the statement.

Turkey's ties with Israel have continued to deteriorate since Israel's offensive in the Gaza Strip last winter, which left hundreds of Palestinian civilians dead.

Last week, Turkey banned Israel from an international air exercise in protest against its actions in Gaza.

Public opinion


Speaking on Thursday, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Turkey's prime minister, defended the decision and said he had to take account of public opinion on Israel.

"Anyone who exercises political power has to take account of public opinion ... I can't just put the calls from the public to one side, it's a question of sincerity," Erdogan said.

The prime minister said Turkey had proposed that the joint exercise, which was also meant to involve the United States' air force, be either postponed or held without Israel but would not bow to interference when making decisions.

He said: "I want people to know that Turkey is a powerful country which takes its own decisions. We don't take orders from anyone."

Israeli officials have expressed concern over Ankara's decision to cancel the aerial manoeuvres which were to have taken place from October 12-23 in central Turkey.

The international section of the Anatolian Eagle air exercises has been carried out annually since 2001.

The US called the Turkish decision "inappropriate".

'Strategic relationship'


Turkey has been Israel's chief regional ally since the two signed a military co-operation deal in 1996, but its criticism of Israel has mounted since Erdogan's Justice and Development Party came to power in 2002.

Speaking on Wednesday, Ehud Barak, Israel's defence minister, downplayed the increase in tensions with Turkey despite Ankara's decision to call off the joint military exercise.

He said: "I think that basically there are ups and downs for all different reasons in relations.

"But our relationship with Turkey is long-standing, important and strategic in nature."


Turkey: We won't cancel TV show depicting Israelis as killers

Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu said Friday that a controversial television drama which shows actors dressed as Israeli soldiers killing Palestinian children will not be taken off the air.

The TV program Ayirlik ("separation") shows Israeli soldiers killing Palestinian children in Gaza. In one of the scenes, an Israeli soldier shoots an unarmed little girl at point-blank range.

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GuestFellow
10-16-2009, 03:56 PM
The truth hurts...does it not Israel?
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Güven
10-16-2009, 04:18 PM
What an hypocrites, I think they forgot about all those times when they potrayed muslims in those hollywood movies and series as terrorist, as bad guys.
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Humbler_359
10-16-2009, 04:52 PM
:sl:

Arab countries (Egypt, Saudi Arabia, etc) MUST follow same examples of Iran and Turkey.

There is proposal for Turkey, Iran, and Pakistan to work together in Military technology and cooperation. It is just beginning <_<

Long Live United Muslims!

Pakistan (100+ Nukes, Missiles, Military numbers, Engineering, Experiences, and Training)
Turkey (Simply great Navy, Airforce, Army, Engineering, and NATO status)
Iran (huge stash of Missiles, Research Engineers, well-trained, Experiences, Air-Forcesfrom Russia, tanks, )
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mahi
10-16-2009, 05:21 PM
...

It may be true, it may be hypocritical Israel, but this sort of depictions, if they are protested, should be removed.

Yeah sure they do kill like that, so brothers and sisters, you saying its justified ain't gonna stop that. What you got to do is show them true Islam, not that an eye for an eye works.

Remember to fix a damaged heart you don't attack it more, you be peaceful. Allah will deal with those that hate and only Allah has the right to judge.
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GreyKode
10-16-2009, 05:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mahi
...

It may be true, it may be hypocritical Israel, but this sort of depictions, if they are protested, should be removed.

Yeah sure they do kill like that, so brothers and sisters, you saying its justified ain't gonna stop that. What you got to do is show them true Islam, not that an eye for an eye works.

Remember to fix a damaged heart you don't attack it more, you be peaceful. Allah will deal with those that hate and only Allah has the right to judge.
huh..? what does this have to do with Islam?
This is pure politics.
Israel is playing its dirty politics and Turkey is striking back.
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aadil77
10-16-2009, 05:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mahi
...

It may be true, it may be hypocritical Israel, but this sort of depictions, if they are protested, should be removed.

Yeah sure they do kill like that, so brothers and sisters, you saying its justified ain't gonna stop that. What you got to do is show them true Islam, not that an eye for an eye works.

Remember to fix a damaged heart you don't attack it more, you be peaceful. Allah will deal with those that hate and only Allah has the right to judge.
what? so we cant even portray the truth
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Humbler_359
10-16-2009, 05:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mahi
...

It may be true, it may be hypocritical Israel, but this sort of depictions, if they are protested, should be removed.

Yeah sure they do kill like that, so brothers and sisters, you saying its justified ain't gonna stop that. What you got to do is show them true Islam, not that an eye for an eye works.

Remember to fix a damaged heart you don't attack it more, you be peaceful. Allah will deal with those that hate and only Allah has the right to judge.
:sl:

I don't know what you are referring. This world is totally different, politics are not interested in Islam but endless WARS. Example, Iraq, Palestine, Bosnia, Kashmir, so on.

Allah (SWT) allow us to defend and attack only agresssors when it happen. We are not longer to bear to see our innocent brothers and sisters dying for nothing. We should protect our people together by hand to hand.

Welcome to real world !
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The_Prince
10-16-2009, 06:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mahi
...

It may be true, it may be hypocritical Israel, but this sort of depictions, if they are protested, should be removed.

Yeah sure they do kill like that, so brothers and sisters, you saying its justified ain't gonna stop that. What you got to do is show them true Islam, not that an eye for an eye works.

Remember to fix a damaged heart you don't attack it more, you be peaceful. Allah will deal with those that hate and only Allah has the right to judge.
where in Islam does it say JUST STAY PEACEFUL AND LET ALLAH DEAL WITH IT? thats another term for simply saying yeah im a lazy Muslim who wants to do nothing, so ill sit on my a$$ and just tell God to deal with it just like the Israelites did with Moses! Islam says RISE UP AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT YOURSELF, sure you can forgive sometimes, but not when they keep killing you, and occupying your land, and holy places. they keep doing it OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER again.

so no, dont just stay quiet and 'peaceful', but rise up and resist tyrany.
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mahi
10-16-2009, 06:45 PM
If you are a muslim, then it is not politics.

And sure, you can portray the truth. But if it is disliked by others, you don't revel in that dislike do you? It goes to stuff that non muslims do against muslims, we don't like it. It may be the truth, but all this stuff does is create hatred. Anyone who actually sees the program as truth already knows the truth...

I know that Allah allows us to defend ourselves. And of course, we should protect our brothers and sisters. So let me ask the poster, is that program, defending our brothers and sisters? Saving them from their forgotten plight? And we should protect our brothers hand in hand, so let me ask you, what are you doing?

Lets not go further out of context than this program...
Islam is not about hatred, salam.. slm..
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aadil77
10-16-2009, 07:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mahi
If you are a muslim, then it is not politics.

And sure, you can portray the truth. But if it is disliked by others, you don't revel in that dislike do you? It goes to stuff that non muslims do against muslims, we don't like it. It may be the truth, but all this stuff does is create hatred. Anyone who actually sees the program as truth already knows the truth...

I know that Allah allows us to defend ourselves. And of course, we should protect our brothers and sisters. So let me ask the poster, is that program, defending our brothers and sisters? Saving them from their forgotten plight? And we should protect our brothers hand in hand, so let me ask you, what are you doing?

Lets not go further out of context than this program...
Islam is not about hatred, salam.. slm..
You're basically saying that you love and care for the kuffar soo much, that you would even hide the truth so it doesn't displease them and make them look bad

sorry but these are all the qualities of a suckup/coward

and it doesn't create hatred, it creates awareness and also islam isn't a pacifist religion
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mahi
10-16-2009, 07:48 PM
Look forward bro, not just at what's in front of you.

Lets all go around saying the truth is that the Israelis are murderers (whether its true or not is irrelavant to this point). The Israelis will get this and see that we think of them as murderers. Can you honestly see any good coming out of this ever?

Stupid hate like this has been followed by so many has probably killed more muslims than helped. It just creates more hate because at the root brothers and sisters create these tensions and hate and then the ones who truly suffer are the ones currently sufferring in places like Palestine.

People automatically hate another, but isn't it better to look for solutions? And remember, not all Even small things like this can help better relations, no matter how bad they are. I recently read about 80 Israeli high schoolers refused to conscribe to the army because they oppose the conditions that are enforced upon the muslims around them. Not everyone is bad. Would you rather turn them bad with your hatred, or show them that there are others that will match them.
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The_Prince
10-16-2009, 08:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mahi
Look forward bro, not just at what's in front of you.

Lets all go around saying the truth is that the Israelis are murderers (whether its true or not is irrelavant to this point). The Israelis will get this and see that we think of them as murderers. Can you honestly see any good coming out of this ever?

Stupid hate like this has been followed by so many has probably killed more muslims than helped. It just creates more hate because at the root brothers and sisters create these tensions and hate and then the ones who truly suffer are the ones currently sufferring in places like Palestine.

People automatically hate another, but isn't it better to look for solutions? And remember, not all Even small things like this can help better relations, no matter how bad they are. I recently read about 80 Israeli high schoolers refused to conscribe to the army because they oppose the conditions that are enforced upon the muslims around them. Not everyone is bad. Would you rather turn them bad with your hatred, or show them that there are others that will match them.
lol good thing your not a police officer or working in government or you would be letting murderers off the hook in fear of 'offending' them! LOL now thats so funny!
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M..x
10-16-2009, 08:51 PM
Mahi... ^ Hang on.. So le'me get this right. If your family was shot one by one and your house demolished, are you guna 'love' the Israeli solider that does it to you? I'm sorry but c'mon, its human nature to hate anyone that would inflict that upon you & your family. While we have to spread peace we have to also acknowledge the plight of our brothers and sisters suffering at the hands of these people. Making excuses for cowards who kill innocents will not get us anywhere either. & you're right in tha sense that not eryone is bad, buh then why cover up for those whu are?
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layla is here
10-16-2009, 09:29 PM
I personally don't understand why anyone would want to watch a show like that. I only watched the first minute of the clip and it was all murder and shooting. I turned it off. I don't like that type of entertainment. Palestine is a suffering country. Why would anyone want to watch suffereing in their free time?
They can see it on the news.
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GuestFellow
10-16-2009, 09:44 PM
^ Salaam.

Yes it is not easy to watch these documentaries. It gives you an idea of the suffering the Palestinians are going through. Seeing things may have a bigger impact than simply reading text.
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Güven
10-16-2009, 10:00 PM
Just to make clear, this show is a love story in Palestine, A life in Palestine. It's not an documentary orsomething.

So it's not simply a serie showing only deaths all around the place.
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mahi
10-17-2009, 08:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Güven
Just to make clear, this show is a love story in Palestine, A life in Palestine. It's not an documentary orsomething.

So it's not simply a serie showing only deaths all around the place.
Ah if that's the case then yeah, go ahead. It's like any other sort of drama. I haven't seen it, just making the point that going around saying its all justified is wrong.

@Guestfellow - that is very very true. Especially with the gaza situation, the videos are better than a million articles.

And to all the brothers and sisters are saying that I love the Israelis or the Jews and don't care about the people dying, let me ask you one question. A small question, but it'd be interesting. What would you do if you met an Israeli Jew? What if he came to your house for some water and told you who he is?
Since all the Jews are murderers...
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Güven
10-17-2009, 08:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mahi
What would you do if you met an Israeli Jew? What if he came to your house for some water and told you who he is?
Since all the Jews are murderers...
Where did someone say that all jews are murderers?

we are talking about zionists who occupy lands and kill innocent people.
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mahfuja
10-17-2009, 08:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mahi
Look forward bro, not just at what's in front of you.

Lets all go around saying the truth is that the Israelis are murderers (whether its true or not is irrelavant to this point). The Israelis will get this and see that we think of them as murderers. Can you honestly see any good coming out of this ever?

Stupid hate like this has been followed by so many has probably killed more muslims than helped. It just creates more hate because at the root brothers and sisters create these tensions and hate and then the ones who truly suffer are the ones currently sufferring in places like Palestine.

People automatically hate another, but isn't it better to look for solutions? And remember, not all Even small things like this can help better relations, no matter how bad they are. I recently read about 80 Israeli high schoolers refused to conscribe to the army because they oppose the conditions that are enforced upon the muslims around them. Not everyone is bad. Would you rather turn them bad with your hatred, or show them that there are others that will match them.
No one is promoting hate! Actions need to be taken to expose Israeli for the War criminal country that they are! In fear that we may "offend" them or might create an image in their head that Muslims think their murderers is sooo irrelevant!

Truth is Israel is Illegally occupying land, building illegal settlements, Massacres after massacres and who sufferes from this all? our brothers and sisters in Palestine. But yet the world is asleep ... if certain actions expose these Israelis then why is that a harm?

Great to see countries giving Israel something to panik about! first Turkey Barring Israel from military exercise then Eggypt FM refused to be in the same room as Lieberman and now this! it's fantastic! masha'Allah! may the veil be lifted from the eyes of the Muslim world!
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GuestFellow
10-17-2009, 08:56 PM
mahi does have a point. We have to expose the crimes Israeli military has committed but at the same time not to demonize the entire nation (not that I'm suggesting anyone is). I heard of many Human Rights groups in Israel that are complaining about military tactics.
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M..x
10-17-2009, 09:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mahi

And to all the brothers and sisters are saying that I love the Israelis or the Jews and don't care about the people dying, let me ask you one question. A small question, but it'd be interesting. What would you do if you met an Israeli Jew? What if he came to your house for some water and told you who he is?
Since all the Jews are murderers...
Clearly you have read tha posts out of context or just dont quite understand tha points made by the brothers & sisters on this forum... So let me clarify InshAllah...
Our posts are referring to tha evil Zionist regime, tha same evil people who are bombing and killing our Muslim brother's & sisters in their hundreds & thousands, who are literally wiping away nations... Are we so quick to forget what they did to Lebanon?
& To your question... First of all, where did we make referance to tha whole of tha Jewish nation? Thas like saying all Muslims are terrorists... =S. We are not here to discriminate nor incite hatred towards any faith. Any good hearted individual using their brain, whether that be Jewish/Christian or Muslim, would regard Israel's attack on Gaza a crime and simply wrong. & If you don't accept that, its time you lifted tha veil from your eyes.
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GuestFellow
10-17-2009, 09:19 PM
I'm certain that the Muslims on this forum don't hate Jews. We are against Zionism. Not all Jews are Zionists. In fact some Muslims and Christians are Zionists. Some Jews are against Zionism. Zionism is a political ideology which has created many problems in the Middle East. Just thought I should clear that up...
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mahi
10-17-2009, 09:44 PM
I am typing this as I was in the middle of this massive post arguing and whatnot and decided to delete that.

So I'll make it simple as I don't want to go into that, and I hope I have done the right thing. My original post is against the showing of Israelis as murders is the right thing to do. Many of you have said I am blinded and whatnot. That's not the point, the point is whether showing Israelis as murderers is right or wrong. Many of you are taking it as being either a denial of what Israel did and is doing is wrong.

The point is whether by not accepting a request by Israel to remove a program, has the better thing been done? Yeah, me and you might feel good because it is a true depiction. But that's not what its about. You need to move forward, and thats not by promoting hate. Yeah it true what they do. So you're gonna solve it by trying to show everyone what they do? That'll lead to more of us v them.

Too many of us are trying to get justice for those that are being killed, and would be more than glad to fill part of that with satisfaction from these films. But do you not realise its not about getting justice since it still occurs? Its about doing something. Not going around showing other people others murders as that solves NOTHING. Its not the program thats the problem, its the denial to remove it. Its not going to help anything. Its about using Islam and peace to help. You can create more tension but that leads to more conflict.

You all want to do something. Ask yourself this and answer me, is anything good going to come out of this that will lead to less of our brothers and sisters dying? Lead to a better life for that 5 year old Palestinian in 10 years? If he's still around, that is. I'm just trying to make a small point based on basic manners that I learnt from Islam, about helping those who need it and not attacking them more. If it is seen that muslims will look down upon even small things like this, then trust me, there is much more hope for understanding and peace.
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GuestFellow
10-17-2009, 09:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mahi
The point is whether by not accepting a request by Israel to remove a program, has the better thing been done? Yeah, me and you might feel good because it is a true depiction. But that's not what its about. You need to move forward, and thats not by promoting hate. Yeah it true what they do. So you're gonna solve it by trying to show everyone what they do? That'll lead to more of us v them.

Too many of us are trying to get justice for those that are being killed, and would be more than glad to fill part of that with satisfaction from these films. But do you not realise its not about getting justice since it still occurs? Its about doing something. Not going around showing other people others murders as that solves NOTHING. Its not the program thats the problem, its the denial to remove it. Its not going to help anything. Its about using Islam and peace to help. You can create more tension but that leads to more conflict.

You all want to do something. Ask yourself this and answer me, is anything good going to come out of this that will lead to less of our brothers and sisters dying? Lead to a better life for that 5 year old Palestinian in 10 years? If he's still around, that is. I'm just trying to make a small point based on basic manners that I learnt from Islam, about helping those who need it and not attacking them more. If it is seen that muslims will look down upon even small things like this, then trust me, there is much more hope for understanding and peace.
Asslamu Aliakum.

We are not creating conflict here. We are presenting the truth. It is a fact Israel military uses excessive force against civilians. The main problem is the media does not present the war crimes Israel has committed until very recently. It has been sixty years and no one has question Israeli military tactics...otherwise they would have stopped killing civilians.

Many Human Rights groups have argued that Israel is committing war crimes yet Israeli government fails to listen.

The problem is no one is going to listen. For the past sixty years not much has been done. The majority of the media keeps on distorting the truth and many people do not question what they see on the news. We need the media to present the truth for a change.
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mahi
10-17-2009, 09:59 PM
So refusing a request by the Israelis to remove the program will solve what? Make the Israeli government listen?
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GuestFellow
10-17-2009, 10:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mahi
So refusing a request by the Israelis to remove the program will solve what? Make the Israeli government listen?
Nope. The Israeli government will never listen but hopefully people around the world will get to see the crimes Israel has committed. International pressure is what I'm talking about. If other countries can put pressure on the Israeli government to stop committing war crimes maybe then we can see progress.
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mahi
10-17-2009, 10:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Guestfellow
Nope. The Israeli government will never listen but hopefully people around the world will get to see the crimes Israel has committed. International pressure is what I'm talking about. If other countries can put pressure on the Israeli government to stop committing war crimes maybe then we can see progress.
Walaikumasalam

Never as in never?

So good will come out of pressurising?
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GuestFellow
10-17-2009, 10:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mahi
Walaikumasalam

Never as in never?

So good will come out of pressurising?
Salaam.

Well it has been sixty years and Israel continues to deny all war crimes allegations. Therefore, I get the feeling in the near future the Israeli government will refuse to listen. I doubt they shall make swift radical changes to their views on the current conflict.

Pressuring a country to stop using disproportionate military force against civilians. The more people that are aware of the issue the more can be done.
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mahi
10-17-2009, 10:37 PM
The more people that are aware, the more can be done. How so? Again, going off the point slightly. Its not about raising awareness thats the topic here. The media did more than enough of that especially during things like the killing in at the beginning of the year. The point, again, is whether saying that to show Israelis as murderers is the right way of doing things.

And yeah, you can pressurise them. But what's going to happen? Nothing. You can pressurise as much are you want, they may ease a little bit, but eventually it'll go down to boiling point and nothing will happen. Why? Because no country in their right mind would engage Israel (apart from the Islamic countries). There are several reasons, but one being that no one would go to war with hopes of victory against a country with nuclear warheads.

I'm not going to argue in this thread any more as its clear what many think. I'll just leave with one last point. Generally people would say refusing something (justified or not), or pressurising is bad. It leads to more bad. People would say agreeing to something (whether its good for you or not) is the good thing and helping the misled is the good thing.It leads to more good.
And nothing good is built on the bad. Maybe initially it may, but everything is down to Allah.
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GuestFellow
10-17-2009, 10:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mahi
The more people that are aware, the more can be done. How so?
Well firstly when people are more aware of injustice taking place people complain to the government. The more people who complain to the government the government will act. These are pressure groups.

Again, going off the point slightly. Its not about raising awareness thats the topic here. The media did more than enough of that especially during things like the killing in at the beginning of the year. The point, again, is whether saying that to show Israelis as murderers is the right way of doing things.
I haven't watched it. But...

format_quote Originally Posted by Guven
Just to make clear, this show is a love story in Palestine, A life in Palestine. It's not an documentary orsomething.

So it's not simply a serie showing only deaths all around the place.
It sounds like a story based on true events. I doubt it's soul purpose was to show Israelis as murderers.

And yeah, you can pressurise them. But what's going to happen? Nothing. You can pressurise as much are you want, they may ease a little bit, but eventually it'll go down to boiling point and nothing will happen. Why?
We are not entirely sure about that. No one knows what can happen in the future you see. They may stop using aggressive military force or they may not. We will never know until we try.

Because no country in their right mind would engage Israel (apart from the Islamic countries). There are several reasons, but one being that no one would go to war with hopes of victory against a country with nuclear warheads.
When I mean pressure, it does not involve war. I believe the UN has accused Israel of committing war crimes. There are some countries that do critque Israel.

I'm not going to argue in this thread any more as its clear what many think. I'll just leave with one last point. Generally people would say refusing something (justified or not), or pressurising is bad. It leads to more bad. People would say agreeing to something (whether its good for you or not) is the good thing and helping the misled is the good thing.It leads to more good.
And nothing good is built on the bad. Maybe initially it may, but everything is down to Allah.
Pressure can lead to good too. For example in the UK there was pressure from Animal Right groups to stop the killings of foxes for the sake of sports.
This is simply presenting the truth. Presenting the truth can lead to good and bad things.
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