Jummah Prayer..

[AnonymousPoster]

:sl: hope is well :)

I just wanted to know that can you pray Jummah at home? I know this might be a silly question but I just wanted to find out, and are you allowed to do it? This is because on friday I finish half day at college and by the time I arrive at my local mosque, the prayer finishes. I could pray at my college however it's 40 people in one little room and I feel uncomfortable.

Thanks.

[Ansariyah]

:wa:

it depends...are u a sis or bro?

It is not Fard for women to pray Jummah in the Masjid, but its wajib on men. There is no Jummah at home, the whole point of Jumah prayer is that its done at the mosque after the sermon. Allah knws best.

[AnonymousPoster]

I'm a brother lol

Is praying Jummah at college or work with other Muslim brothers the same at praying in a masjid?

[Ansariyah]

I'm a brother lol

Is praying Jummah at college or work with other Muslim brothers the same at praying in a masjid?

It allowed as far as I know, but I think it depends on the number of brothas praying, there should be at least a fixed number. Ive read at'least 40 must attend for the prayer to be Valid. Allah knows best.

read this pls:

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503545834

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[ardianto]

I'm a brother lol

Is praying Jummah at college or work with other Muslim brothers the same at praying in a masjid?

Did you pray Jummah with 40 adult Muslims men in a little room at your college ?.

Just wondering, why you think this room is not a masjid ?. This is a temporary masjid, bro. :D

You can pray Jummah in the market, on the yard, on the street, etc. And during you pray Jummah, these places are masjids.

[AnonymousPoster]

Did you pray Jummah with 40 adult Muslims men in a little room at your college ?.

Just wondering, why you think this room is not a masjid ?. This is a temporary masjid, bro. :D

You can pray Jummah in the market, on the yard, on the street, etc. And during you pray Jummah, these places are masjids.

There were a few adults, mostly were students lol.

If you're saying you can pray Jummah in those places, does that mean you can pray at home?

[ardianto]

There were a few adults, mostly were students lol.

Sorry, I mean not kids. College or high school students are consider as adult. But if they were less than 40 persons including yourself, this Jummah prayer was not valid.

If you're saying you can pray Jummah in those places, does that mean you can pray at home?

Of course we can pray Jummah at home, but must according to Jummah prayer rules. I.e, There are 40 persons or more, there are two khutbah, etc.
When I was in high school I always pray jummah in school sport hall.

[Sampharo]

Jumaah prayer requires a congregation. It doesn't matter if it is as little as a handful of people, what matters is that Athan is made, a speech is given, and two rakaas are prayed aloud in congregation.

Praying it at university is valid if there is no other stand-alone masjid within walking distance. If there is one, and you can hear the Athan without speakers, complete consensus of scholars say you need to go to the stand-alone masjid for Jummah and all five daily prayers actually. This is based on the blind man's question to the prophet -pbuh- when he asked to pray at home, and the prophet -pbuh- responded "Can you hear the athan?" and when the man affirmed yes, the prophet -pbuh- "Then go to the masjid"

I was told that under no circumstances would a Jummah prayer be valid if one prays it at home with their family, that is not a valid jamaa. Using one's home to invite neighbors and muslims because there is no nearby masjid is of course different and valid though.

And God knows best

[aadil77]

Sorry, I mean not kids. College or high school students are consider as adult. But if they were less than 40 persons including yourself, this Jummah prayer was not valid.


Of course we can pray Jummah at home, but must according to Jummah prayer rules. I.e, There are 40 persons or more, there are two khutbah, etc.
When I was in high school I always pray jummah in school sport hall.

Please provide proof for this '40 persons' statment. I've been praying jummah at college with about 30 ppl for 2 years, you're saying these weren't valid. I've been told 3 people is minimum.

Jummah salah is fardh for every muslim man and can only be prayed in jama'a, its not always possible to find 40 people to pray with when you're not at a masjid

[AnonymousPoster]

My friend prays at college on a Jummah day, however he goes that he prays 12 rakats because he said that's what our prophet (PBUH) done. What I do normally is, I pray 4 rakats with everyone.. then I pray 2 rakats with the Imam leading. Is this valid? I normally do this at the masjid too.

[AnonymousPoster]

My friend prays 4 rakats first.. then 2 which is fine. However I get a bit confused because after the two, he prays another 4 and then 2 on his own? A few other people do this too

[Brasco]

Salam!!


Insha'allah this will help you!!

Praise be to Allaah.

Yes, two people are enough to pray in congregation, whether that is in the house or elsewhere. Imam al-Bukhaari (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “Chapter: Two or more form a congregation (jamaa’ah).” Then he narrated the hadeeth of Maalik ibn al-Huwayrith (may Allaah be pleased with him), that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “When the time for prayer comes, give the adhaan and iqaamah then let the oldest of you two lead you in prayer.” (al-Bukhaari, 658).

Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “Chapter: Two or more form a congregation”: this heading was narrated in a hadeeth which was narrated via weak isnaads, which said that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) saw a man praying by himself and said: “Will not a man perform an act of charity for him and pray with him?” So a man stood up and prayed with him, and he said: “These two are a congregation (jamaa’ah).”

The story mentioned – apart from the words, “These two are a congregation” – was narrated by Abu Dawood and al-Tirmidhi with a different, saheeh, isnaad.

He also said:

This (the hadeeth of Maalik ibn al-Huwayrith (may Allaah be pleased with him)) may be understood as meaning that the smallest a congregation can be is an imam and one follower, which is more general in meaning than saying that the follower may be a man or a boy or a woman.

The hadeeth referred to by al-Haafiz is narrated by Abu Dawood (554) who classed it as saheeh. The report is as follows: It was narrated from Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) saw a man praying on his own and said: “Why doesn’t a man perform an act of charity for him and pray with him?” Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami’, 2652.

It says in ‘Awn al-Ma’bood: so that he may attain the reward of praying in congregation, so it will be as if he gave him charity.

It was narrated from Ubayy ibn Ka’b (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “… for a man to pray with another man is better than his praying alone, and for a man to pray with two other men is better than his praying with one man. The more there are, the more beloved that is to Allaah.” Al-Nasaa’i, 843; Abu Dawood, 554; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami’, 2242.

But it should be noted that what is required of men is to offer the prayers in congregation in the mosque; it is not permissible to offer the obligatory prayers at home, whether in congregation or alone, unless one has an excuse.

The Standing Committee was asked: If two people pray together is that a jamaa’ah (congregation) or not?

They replied: If two or more people pray together, that is a congregation, but the more people there are, the better; it should also be noted that prayers in congregation should be offered in the mosque.

Fataawa al-Lajnah al-‘Daa’imah, 7/289.

Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked about some people who prayed in congregation at home. He said:

We advise them to fear Allaah and to pray in congregation with the Muslims in the mosque, because the most correct scholarly view concerning this matter is that it is obligatory to offer prayers in congregation in the mosque, unless one has an excuse. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I thought of ordering that the iqaamah be given, then I would order a man to lead the people in prayer, and I would take some men carrying bundles of wood and go to people who did not attend the prayer, and burn their houses down on them.” See al-Bukhaari, 644; Muslim, 651.

Those people may be have been offering the prayers in congregation in their own places, but the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) wanted them to pray with the congregation which was performing the prayer in the manner prescribed in sharee’ah, and the congregation which sharee’ah says one should pray with is those who pray in the mosques, the mosques to which they are called when the time for prayer comes. Hence ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Mas’ood (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “Whoever would like to meet Allaah tomorrow as a Muslim, let him offer these prayers regularly where the call for them is given.” The word haythu (where) refers to place, i.e., let him offer them regularly in the place from which the call to prayer is given.

Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen, 15/19

masalam

[ardianto]

Please provide proof for this '40 persons' statment. I've been praying jummah at college with about 30 ppl for 2 years, you're saying these weren't valid. I've been told 3 people is minimum.

Jummah salah is fardh for every muslim man and can only be prayed in jama'a, its not always possible to find 40 people to pray with when you're not at a masjid

According to Indonesian scholars, Jummah prayer with less than 40 people is not valid. If Muslims in one area are less than 40, they must go to another area and join with local Muslims. And if another area is too far or total numbers of two joined areas is still less than 40 people, Muslims in those areas must pray Duh'r.

However, maybe there is another fatwa or statement that allows Muslims pray Jummah with less than 40 people.

[aadil77]

According to Indonesian scholars, Jummah prayer with less than 40 people is not valid. If Muslims in one area are less than 40, they must go to another area and join with local Muslims. And if another area is too far or total numbers of two joined areas is still less than 40 people, Muslims in those areas must pray Duh'r.

However, maybe there is another fatwa or statement that allows Muslims pray Jummah with less than 40 people.

Ok but why 40, why not 39? do they have a source for this number?

It still seems unreasonable to me, because the emphasis of jummah salah is great so it wouldn't be made difficult for the muslims to offer this prayer

[Sampharo]

According to Indonesian scholars, Jummah prayer with less than 40 people is not valid. If Muslims in one area are less than 40, they must go to another area and join with local Muslims. And if another area is too far or total numbers of two joined areas is still less than 40 people, Muslims in those areas must pray Duh'r.

However, maybe there is another fatwa or statement that allows Muslims pray Jummah with less than 40 people.

Subhan Allah. On what basis did they come up with this and what is the reason for making up such a minimum?! There is no evidence for such a thing and placing a number like that means they are the ones making haram and halal in Islam now and not God.

Jumaa prayer is valid with whatever number of people is available, as long as not one or not family. That is the evidence in hadith. When the scholars come with evidence and basis then only can anyone, learned or not, consider it.

My friend prays at college on a Jummah day, however he goes that he prays 12 rakats because he said that's what our prophet (PBUH) done.

That's a misunderstanding and shows he read the translations of hadith himself and applied without asking people of knowledge.

The hadith says that whomever sticks to praying the 12 sunan rakaas every day will have a home in heavens to go to. These are divided over all five prayers, with two before fajr, 6 for dhuhr, 2 after maghreb and 2 after Isha. Jumaa prayer however has only two afterwards and none before (The prophet didn't pray any before Jumaa, he would wait for the athan and then make khutba. If arriving early though to the masjed it's good to make two rakaa tahiyyatul masjed).

And God always knows best.

[AnonymousPoster]

That's a misunderstanding and shows he read the translations of hadith himself and applied without asking people of knowledge.

The hadith says that whomever sticks to praying the 12 sunan rakaas every day will have a home in heavens to go to. These are divided over all five prayers, with two before fajr, 6 for dhuhr, 2 after maghreb and 2 after Isha. Jumaa prayer however has only two afterwards and none before (The prophet didn't pray any before Jumaa, he would wait for the athan and then make khutba. If arriving early though to the masjed it's good to make two rakaa tahiyyatul masjed).

And God always knows best.

I see, my friend prays 4 rakats first.. then 2 with the Imam. However I get a bit confused because after the two Jummah, he prays another 4 and then 2 on his own? A few other people do this too

[Sampharo]

I see, my friend prays 4 rakats first.. then 2 with the Imam. However I get a bit confused because after the two Jummah, he prays another 4 and then 2 on his own? A few other people do this too

It might be a misunderstanding or something of the hadith that I mentioned, or maybe something else. However, more prayer is never bad and is always greatly rewarded. Imam Ahmed Ibn Hanbal prayed at night dozens and dozens of rakaat as nawafel. However nawafel is always two by two, I don't quite understand 4 plus 2 after jumaa. Usual sunan for Dhuhr is 4 before and 2 after (the four before is two, salam, and two more), so why pray a single prayer of 4 rakaa? God knows best.

[ardianto]

Before I continue this discussion, I must sure we are talking about shalaah Jum'ah (Friday prayer) not shalaah Jama'ah (pray together).

Ok but why 40, why not 39? do they have a source for this number?

As Indonesian we don't know why 40, not 39 or 41. And we don't know what is Indonesian scholar's source for this number because .......... we never ask our scholars about it. :D

In Indonesia this is not a big problem. Indonesia is a country that full of Muslims. But of course, situation in other countries are different.

It still seems unreasonable to me, because the emphasis of jummah salah is great so it wouldn't be made difficult for the muslims to offer this prayer

In my previous post I said "MAYBE there is another fatwa or statement that allows Muslims pray Jummah with less than 40 people", but now I think I must change 'maybe' into 'must be'. There is an argument to allows Muslims pray Jummah with less than 40 people. I think your local Imam knows this argument.


PS : This post is also a reply for brother Sampharo.

[Sampharo]

As Indonesian we don't know why 40, not 39 or 41. And we don't know what is Indonesian scholar's source for this number because .......... we never ask our scholars about it. :D

Well that in Islam my brother I believe invalidates the fatwa. There is no such thing without grounds or basis.

In Indonesia this is not a big problem. Indonesia is a country that full of Muslims. But of course, situation in other countries are different.

Well yes, it might not be a problem in big masjids, but worship in Islam is STRICTLY off limits to guesswork or non-evidential fatwa. "The rulings of prayer and fasting and other worship are Mawqoofa (stopped)" as in to be taken literally without addition or subtraction or changing. These scholars just made all travelling people who might find themselves in a small village somewhere at a certain time or just feel too awkward/lazy/demotivated from traveling and organizing and COUNTING 40 people, and therefore end up commiting a senseless sin by ignoring jumaa deliberately and praying just Dhuhr. The prophet -pbuh- said "Whomever misses three Jumaa prayer, God stamps his heart with lack of faith", and "Jumaa prayer is an obligation on every muslim man". Ignorance is not an excuse in basic worship and therefore whomever prays dhuhr because of that fatwa is commiting a sin.

In my previous post I said "MAYBE there is another fatwa or statement that allows Muslims pray Jummah with less than 40 people", but now I think I must change 'maybe' into 'must be'. There is an argument to allows Muslims pray Jummah with less than 40 people. I think your local Imam knows this argument.

It's not an argument, but the standing evidence and practice that it is permissible for two people or more to pray Jumaa. This 40 number is the one that is recently introduced and requires grounds or argument to explain where they came with it, otherwise the principal of permissibility will stand.

Same way Gad Al-Haq old Imam of Azhar with a commitee of scholars came up with a set amount of time to fast for people who live beyond the arctic circle and sometimes won't have the sun set until very late or not at all, and they decided to give them an unindicated number of 16 hours per day. Nobody in Europe ratified it because it was without basis. They ratified the evidential fatwa by the World Muslim Council which set a certain latitude to begin following the closest city in the same timezone below 45 degrees north, and showed their calculations to reach the number and evidence in sunnah that it is permissible to do so.

In Malaysia here there is a masjid I attended once where they prayed Jumaa with 9 people, so this 40 thing is very much local for Indonesia and they need to explain themselves and the basis, or else they cannot be followed.

God knows best

[ardianto]

I have heard some stories, some villager in a small community must walk several kilometers for pray Jum'ah although they have a small masjid in their village because their number is less than 40. Also I heard some complains from Indonesian in a no man land, like soldiers in the border post, they can't pray jum'ah because they less than 40 people.

There is a rule in Indonesia, minimum number of Muslims in pray jum'ah is 40. We never know why our scholars made this rule because we never ask them. But I guess, this rule is for prevent Muslims splits into many small groups when pray jum'ah. Without this rule, probably 10 Muslims pray jum'ah in a room, and 12 Muslims pray jum'ah in another room in the same building.

Maybe this rule is good, but in fact, this rule is also prevents Muslims pray jum'ah in certain situation.

However, Allah knows best.

Thank you very much, brothers. Jazak Allah khairan.