Pakistan sends 30,000 troops for all-out assault on Taliban

[Güven]

Pakistan sends 30,000 troops for all-out assault on Taliban

Helicopter gunships, aircraft and artillery pound Waziristan mountain stronghold following a series of attacks by militants

More than 30,000 Pakistani soldiers launched a long-expected assault on the Taliban lair of South Waziristan today, following a fortnight of militant attacks that left 175 people dead and underlined the threat to Pakistan's stability.

Early clashes were reported to have claimed more than 20 casualties as government soldiers pressed in on the mountain stronghold from three sides, backed by helicopter gunships, warplanes and artillery. A fifth of the local population has fled in recent weeks.

The operation is Pakistan's largest ever drive against Islamist extremists. The army says that it has deployed the 30,000 troops against an estimated 10,000 Taliban and al-Qaida fighters. The battle zone is the Mehsud tribal territory, whose impoverished villages have a long history of producing formidable tribal fighters. The Pakistan Taliban in the region are now led by Hakimullah Mehsud, the successor of Baitullah Mehsud, who was killed in an American drone strike last August.

A successful operation is vital to Pakistan's stability. Over the last two weeks militants have launched a series of audacious attacks across the country, including the suicide bombing of a United Nations office in Islamabad, three simultaneous attacks on police sites in Lahore and, most brazenly, a 22-hour siege of the army headquarters in Rawalpindi last weekend. Authorities said that most incidents were orchestrated by Waziristan-based commanders.

South Waziristan is also a notorious hub of al-Qaida fighters plotting against the west. "There is a huge presence of foreign militants," army spokesman Major-General Athar Abbas said tonight, describing them as Uzbeks, Arabs and north African Muslims. There has been frequent speculation that Osama bin Laden is sheltering in Waziristan, but many experts think it unlikely he would remain in such a heavily contested area.

Thousands of troops and allied tribal militias have sealed off entry points to the south, east and north of the Mehsud stronghold. Anwar Kamal, a tribal leader from neighbouring Lakki Marwat, said he had been asked to provide hundreds of armed villagers to seal off mountain passes leading from the area.

Military sources predicted the fighting would last at least six weeks and would concentrate on the Taliban strongholds of Ladha and Makeen. Some think it may take longer – the treacherous passes of Waziristan, many of which rise to 7,000ft, have frustrated invading armies since the time of Alexander the Great. In the 1930s and 1940s the British army fought a protracted campaign against forces led by a fierce local cleric known as the Faqir of Ipi. The Faqir evaded capture and died of natural causes in 1960.

The Taliban are expected to strike back with ambushes, suicide attacks and roadside explosions. In early fighting today a bomb rocked a convoy passing though Ladha district, killing one soldier and wounding three others, AP reported. Most information could not be corroborated – phone lines were cut to the area for most of today and foreign reporters are forbidden from entering the tribal belt without permission.

South Waziristan is the redoubt of Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP). Two weeks ago its leader, Hakimullah Mehsud, vowed to avenge the death of his predecessor, Baitullah, with attacks on Pakistani and US targets. Several of the subsequent attacks were co-ordinated with Punjab-based jihadist groups, highlighting the Taliban's alliances with other extremist groups.

Military, government and opposition political leaders met for a briefing on the operation on Friday in a show of national unity. The army made three failed attempts to negotiate peace deals with militants in Waziristan between 2004 and 2006. This time, it said, it was no longer prepared to talk.

But the army has made tactical compromises that leave western allies uncomfortable. In order to encircle the Mehsud area, it appears to have reached agreements with rival militant groups controlled by Maulvi Nazir in South Waziristan and Qari Gul Bahadur in North Waziristan. Although less famous than the Mehsud-led TTP, they send many Taliban fighters into Afghanistan.

The offensive has triggered a flood of refugees, although the humanitarian crisis is not expected to be as severe as in Swat this summer, when an estimated two million people were displaced across Swat and neighbouring districts. Tariq Hayat Khan, the secretary for law and order in the tribal areas, said that 12,800 families had fled from South Waziristan in the last six weeks, from a population he estimated at 110,000 people.

Provincial authorities said they expected 250,000 people to be displaced by the operation. Many have fled to the town of Dera Ismail Khan at the southern end of North West Frontier Province. Western aid agencies offering relief items, however, are based across the river Indus in Punjab province due to security concerns.

The offensive is backed by the US, which considers Pakistan's tribal areas as a major rear base for Taliban fighters attacking Nato soldiers, even though South Waziristan does not share a border with Afghanistan. According to reports, the Obama administration is racing to send night-vision goggles and other equipment to aid the effort.

Meanwhile the US is continuing with its drone war – the latest strike, on Thursday night, hit a compound controlled by the warlord Jalaluddin Haqqani in North Waziristan.

Rustum Shah Mohmand, a retired diplomat and analyst, predicted the operation would not be prolonged. "The area is too small and the militants are not supported by the people," he said. But, he added, even if it succeeded Pakistan's militant problem would not go away.

"One should be under no illusion that Pakistan will become quiet as a lake. This is not going to happen," he said. "There are entrenched militant groups across the country. And they will continue to attack."

Source(Guardian)(Telegraph)

[aadil77]

I hope they get rid of the disease of unislamic fighters springing up everywhere

[The_Prince]

and westerners say WHERE ARE THE MUSLIMS SPEAKING UP AGAINST THE EXTREMISTS!!!!!!! is this enough for you, or you guys still cant see?

[Rasema]

Talibans are sunnis,right?
This is not right in my opinion. What are the Taliban doing to Pakistanis?

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[Trumble]

and westerners say WHERE ARE THE MUSLIMS SPEAKING UP AGAINST THE EXTREMISTS!!!!!!! is this enough for you, or you guys still cant see?

Totally different issue. This isn't about one group of muslims "speaking up against" another, but a political conflict to gain/retain power in the region, now escalated to military means.

[aadil77]

Talibans are sunnis,right?
This is not right in my opinion. What are the Taliban doing to Pakistanis?

It is a big complex situation with many groups involved its not just one big taliban group, all we know is that what they're doing is wrong and more importantly unislamic

[The_Prince]

Totally different issue. This isn't about one group of muslims "speaking up against" another, but a political conflict to gain/retain power in the region, now escalated to military means.

so when Muslims do stand up to the 'extremists' it has nothing to do with opposing terrorism but because of political reasons or whatever reasons, sheesh, as they say, ****ed if you do, and ****ed if you dont!

[Rasema]

It is a big complex situation with many groups involved its not just one big taliban group, all we know is that what they're doing is wrong and more importantly unislamic

So we send this much 30,000 troops. Why haven't they done this to Gaza? I mean, imagine: How do the Talibans feel right now? Having their own brothers and sisters attacking them together with U.S.!!!

They are sunni Muslims, correct?

I cannot believe this.

[Humbler_359]

So we send this much 30,000 troops. Why haven't they done this to Gaza? I mean, imagine: How do the Talibans feel right now? Having their own brothers and sisters attacking them together with U.S.!!!

They are sunni Muslims, correct?

I cannot believe this.

:sl: Sister Rasema,

Welcome back to forum since you took vacation, lol.

It is not about Gaza vs Palestine. It is not about Sunni vs Sunni. Taliban have done alot of harm things (suicide bombing, killing civilan, supplied by India and Israel and USA to attack our people), so Pakistan Army came to destroy unIslamic bad people. You know, Soviet Union attacked Afghanistan during 1980s, Pakistan secretly supported Taliban with US to kick out Soviet Union by supplying machines guns, launchers, etc. Then today, it is opposite.

US is helping Pakistan to attack Taliban or terrorists groups but at the same time, US supplied to Taliban by giving bombs, AK-47 gun, money,etc....

Pakistan have already fooled US in double games. To us, US is not reliable ally. The news confirmed that Taliban leaders supplied by US, India and Israel to destablize the nuclear-armed Pakistan.

Hope this is clear. Hopefully, it will wipe out terrorists soon.

[The_Prince]

So we send this much 30,000 troops. Why haven't they done this to Gaza? I mean, imagine: How do the Talibans feel right now? Having their own brothers and sisters attacking them together with U.S.!!!

They are sunni Muslims, correct?

I cannot believe this.

imagine how the taliban feel? how about imagine how the victims of the taliban feel, the ones who were in the shopping markets who got killed by the taliban bomb attacks, or the ones who happened to be near the area where the taliban decided to carelessly bomb, how about imagining how they feel?

[Rasema]

imagine how the taliban feel? how about imagine how the victims of the taliban feel, the ones who were in the shopping markets who got killed by the taliban bomb attacks, or the ones who happened to be near the area where the taliban decided to carelessly bomb, how about imagining how they feel?

Yea, according to who?
This is a waste of Pakistani troops. What is the purpose in defeating them?
What will happen to Afganistan then? Will it then be like the many other countries, without Sahria?

Thank you Humbler.

[Woodrow]

So we send this much 30,000 troops. Why haven't they done this to Gaza? I mean, imagine: How do the Talibans feel right now? Having their own brothers and sisters attacking them together with U.S.!!!

They are sunni Muslims, correct?

I cannot believe this.

I have very mixed feelings about the Taliban. I fear that many of it's members are sincere young men who honestly believe they are following true jihad.

Sadly the history of the Taliban is very distant from Islam. If people remember history, the Taliban were originally formed and supported by the USA for the purpose of keeping Russia out of the region. The Taliban were formed, bought and paid for by the US government and had no intent to serve Allaah(swt).

After the Russians pulled out, the world was suddenly faced with a large number of very well trained and heavily armed guerrilla fighters no longer needed by the USA and essentially deserted by the USA. We now see the result, an Army abandoned and left to their own resources. A very susceptible group for wannabe war-lords, dictators and fanatics to take advantage of.

[Sampharo]

Yea, according to who?
This is a waste of Pakistani troops. What is the purpose in defeating them?
What will happen to Afganistan then? Will it then be like the many other countries, without Sahria?

Thank you Humbler.

Taliban has been practicing what is known as act of Khawarej, that is declaring muslims as kafir for no validity and under twisting of interpretation of verses to basically revolt and lead bloody warfare against the ruler. The prophet -pbuh- warned against such acts many times in authenticated hadith. He told of people who look like muslims and scream words of greatness to God and Quranic verses, and said these words actually don't go lower than their throats, and that their share of Islam is as little as what an arrow gets passing through a sheet. In a specific hadith, he described them as "hearts of demons in bodies of men". He also said that the best of the Ummah would fight those Khawarej, and whomever fights them even if the ruler is bad, is waging valid jihad.

On the ground actions, Taliban has been attacking the population on Pakistani soil and killed policemen, righteous scholars who said what we are saying, and civilians in order to gain control over provinces. They claimed they want to apply Shariah, but they never really do (a twisted version of dictatorship and police-state maybe with beards and sticks)and even if they did, it's never a valid reason to rise againt a muslim ruler, even corrupt one. If they are completely defeated, then Afghanistand and Pakistan both can start rebuilding like proper countries. We hope the same happens in Somalia.

Do not be fooled by khawarej shouts of "Allahu Akbar", they do not apply sunnah and have nothing to do with Islam.

[The_Prince]

Yea, according to who?
This is a waste of Pakistani troops. What is the purpose in defeating them?
What will happen to Afganistan then? Will it then be like the many other countries, without Sahria?

Thank you Humbler.

unless you distrust all news sources, then according to no one you will trust. furthermore the pakistani taliban are not the afghan taliban, they are 2 different groups, the pakistani army are fighting the pakistani taliban, who have been responsible for several bombings which have killed hundreds of innocent civillians.

go tell the pakistani taliban to stop bombing and attacking pakistani police officers and army people, and the pakistani government wouldnt be fighting against them, unless you also deny that the taliban are NOT attacking the army and police even though they admit they are and have promised more attacks.

so pls stop living in a box and face the reality, the pakistani taliban have alot of Muslim blood on their hands, and your denial wont change that fact, nor will it change the fact that many Pakistanis are sick of them because of their random acts of terrorism that kills many innocent Pakistanis.

[The_Prince]

let me just make this point clear, ladies and gents, the taliban that keeps being mentioned are not the same taliban as the one you see in afghanistan! this is the pakistani taliban, which is mainly made of pakistani tribal members. the pakistani taliban do sometimes take part in attacks in afghanistan, but mainly near the border areas, and just run across the border, the pakistani taliban arent a significant force in afghanistan, and even if they are defeated it wont affect whats happening in afghanistan with the afghani taliban.

infact it will be a good thing for everyone if the pakistani taliban are defeated.

[The_Prince]

I have very mixed feelings about the Taliban. I fear that many of it's members are sincere young men who honestly believe they are following true jihad.

Sadly the history of the Taliban is very distant from Islam. If people remember history, the Taliban were originally formed and supported by the USA for the purpose of keeping Russia out of the region. The Taliban were formed, bought and paid for by the US government and had no intent to serve Allaah(swt).

After the Russians pulled out, the world was suddenly faced with a large number of very well trained and heavily armed guerrilla fighters no longer needed by the USA and essentially deserted by the USA. We now see the result, an Army abandoned and left to their own resources. A very susceptible group for wannabe war-lords, dictators and fanatics to take advantage of.

or MAYBE they were never abandoned ;)

[Rasema]

Totally different issue. This isn't about one group of muslims "speaking up against" another, but a political conflict to gain/retain power in the region, now escalated to military means.

So, what if I don't object against the Taliban? Does that mean I suppost extrimism? No. There is too much propaganda out there to distinguish between a good guy and a bad guy.

Thanks all. I don't know much about this but I just got upset, normally, anyone would.

"hearts of demons in bodies of men". He also said that the best of the Ummah would fight those Khawarej, and whomever fights them even if the ruler is bad, is waging valid jihad.

Hmm, I've noticed that Pakistanis are knowledgeable. Not that everyone else isn't.

[Woodrow]

or MAYBE they were never abandoned ;)

A possibility--- it is a bit odd that they have such a large supply of American made weapons.

[Humbler_359]

let me just make this point clear, ladies and gents, the taliban that keeps being mentioned are not the same taliban as the one you see in afghanistan! this is the pakistani taliban, which is mainly made of pakistani tribal members. the pakistani taliban do sometimes take part in attacks in afghanistan, but mainly near the border areas, and just run across the border, the pakistani taliban arent a significant force in afghanistan, and even if they are defeated it wont affect whats happening in afghanistan with the afghani taliban.

infact it will be a good thing for everyone if the pakistani taliban are defeated.

:sl: The Prince,

Nope, it is Afghani Taliban, Pakistan protected own pushton taliban in case to attack US or India if all-out war. They didn't attack us because they are REAL Pakistani. You need to know, Russia also involved in Afghanistan to support Taliban fighting against US soldiers. US became uneasy with situations (exactly same situations from 1980s!!!).

For Afghani Taliban, they felt that they were betrayed by Pakistan after supported them during Soviet Union. You may remember, Uncle Sam after 9/11 said, "You are either with us or against us". Pakistan chose to be with US against Afghani Taliban, they became outraged and attacked us. Millions of Afghani refugees was entered into Pakistan and gave them comfortable when US attacked Afghanistan.

You see, India, US, Israel became involved in Afghanistan and supported them to attack Pakistan inside.

If you are saying Pakistan shouldn't choose to be with US at first place, there will be a huge disaster - India and US will be united with Zionist State to destroy Pakistan possible.

Very complicated situation. However, Pakistan is in the right direction, Insha'Allah! Terrorists or outsiders must be wiped off the map of Pakistan.

[Trumble]

so when Muslims do stand up to the 'extremists' it has nothing to do with opposing terrorism but because of political reasons or whatever reasons, sheesh, as they say, ****ed if you do, and ****ed if you dont!

What part of "totally different issue" can't you grasp?

[The_Prince]

What part of "totally different issue" can't you grasp?

who said its a 'tottally different issue' thats your spin on it, as most of you will always spin it, whenever Muslims do do something, you spin it into a 'totally different issue'

[Wyatt]

who said its a 'tottally different issue' thats your spin on it, as most of you will always spin it, whenever Muslims do do something, you spin it into a 'totally different issue'

Who is "most of you"? Non-Muslims? That sure seems a bit arrogant of you to put so many people of the world into one stereotype.

I don't feel like you know what you're really talking about when you make this comment. I think if a Muslim would have said what Trumble did, you would have replied completely differently. Care to explain more on how all of us non-Muslims spin it all into totally different issues?

Religion is a bunch of politics, and politics is a bunch of religion.

[The_Prince]

Who is "most of you"? Non-Muslims? That sure seems a bit arrogant of you to put so many people of the world into one stereotype.

I don't feel like you know what you're really talking about when you make this comment. I think if a Muslim would have said what Trumble did, you would have replied completely differently. Care to explain more on how all of us non-Muslims spin it all into totally different issues?

Religion is a bunch of politics, and politics is a bunch of religion.

you= people like trumble.

[Wyatt]

you= people like trumble.

Ah, that explains everything. I was wrong, you do know what you're saying. Thanks for the clarification. :embarrass

[Karl]

So we send this much 30,000 troops. Why haven't they done this to Gaza? I mean, imagine: How do the Talibans feel right now? Having their own brothers and sisters attacking them together with U.S.!!!

They are sunni Muslims, correct?

I cannot believe this.

Maybe the Pakistan government is really Hindu? That's why they are such good buddies to the U.S. There are more Muslims in India anyway. Maybe it should get rid of the name "Islamic Republic of Pakistan" and be renamed "America's Monkey" as they have Western laws that are totally anti Islamic. Indonesia has sold out to the West too but at least it does not call itself an "Islamic Republic"!

[abdullah_001]

:sl:

30,000 troops against the Taliban? Why all of a sudden? Whats the motive?

As far as I know there's like 3 different Taliban, the Pakistanis that call themselves Taliban, the actual Afghan Taliban and the Pakistanis who support the Afghan Taliban. Again, as far as I know, it is actually the Pakistani Taliban, that is really corrupt.

Maybe the Pakistan government is really Hindu? That's why they are such good buddies to the U.S. There are more Muslims in India anyway. Maybe it should get rid of the name "Islamic Republic of Pakistan" and be renamed "America's Monkey" as they have Western laws that are totally anti Islamic. Indonesia has sold out to the West too but at least it does not call itself an "Islamic Republic"!

That is funny because the only countries or governments we could actually claim were Islamic would be Somalia and the government of Taliban because they're at least trying to implement Islamic law lol.

[Humbler_359]

Italians bribed Taliban to prevent attack

UK army 'providing' Taliban with air transport



This is past and present TALIBAN Leaders

This is serious problems ! .

[InToTheRain]

This friend of mine who has recently went back home for in Pakistan for a couple of Months was saying how these FAKE Taliban's in Pakistan were doing terrible things. When they were caught and interrogated they didn't know the basics of Islam. He mentioned they were agents working from another country in order to destabilize Pakistan :hmm:

http://www.haqeeqat.org/2009/07/22/a...icials-silent/

[Argamemnon]

So, what if I don't object against the Taliban? Does that mean I suppost extrimism?

You would really regret it, if they came to power...

[Rasema]

You would really regret it, if they came to power...

:sl:
I said I don't support extrimism. I just don't know who is worse, the Taliban or U.S.
Too much propaganda.
:wa:

[Eliphaz]

Pakistan, in my opinion, is the second most complicated place in the world after Palestine/Israel.

Mohammad Ali Jinnah in no way intended for it to become an Islamic State or a military state, rather his vision was for a secular, liberal country. Too bad he died before they could finish the constitution because at least then Pakistan would have stood for something. Four-something military coups later, we have Zardari, the corrupt husband of Benazir Bhutto, "Mr. 10 per cent", running the whole country and the Taliban-wannabes chipping away at the social order. Would Jinnah recognise the Pakistan of today?

I feel Pakistanis need to understand why the British Empire allowed Pakistan to be formed. It was because Pakistan would act as a buffer to the Soviet Union. Cue the Taliban. So which is the lesser of the three evils in the current climate: the current Zardari government, Taliban takeover, or a U.S. occupation? I would say Zardari has to keep control, for if these uneducated Taliban-wannabes take over it will trigger a U.S. invasion anyways. So lets hope Zardari can keep it on ice until Pakistan can sort itself out. :hmm:

[ardianto]

According to military strategy, number of attacker troops must three times bigger than their defensive enemy.
Now, do you understand why Pakistani govt send 30,000 troops ?.

[Woodrow]

According to military strategy, number of attacker troops must three times bigger than their defensive enemy.
Now, do you understand why Pakistani govt send 30,000 troops ?.

That is a minimum number. Most military commanders never the the number of troops they need to conduct an efficient offensive and make the error of attempting one with the few troops they get. Personally I think from a strategic point, Pakistan is making an error in attemting an offensive against the Talian with less than 50,000

[Masuma]

Pakistan, in my opinion, is the second most complicated place in the world after Palestine/Israel.

But don't you think Afghanistan and Iraq are more complicated places than Pakistan? At least we own our country still to ourselves. Btw complicated in what sense?

Mohammad Ali Jinnah in no way intended for it to become an Islamic State or a military state, rather his vision was for a secular, liberal country.

Muhammad Ali Jinnah got votes from Muslims only due to the reason that he offered them a promise of having an independent Islamic state. You are right that he never desired a military state. He always strongly opposed the army taking control over the political affairs.

Too bad he died before they could finish the constitution because at least then Pakistan would have stood for something.

Yeah too bad he died before we had a proper constitution. We have faced so much injustice at the hands of our leaders or they rightly be called as dictators. The result is that there are two kinds of Pakistanis now. One group called the politicians whom the whole or majority of the nation hate. The others are, we, the public.

Four-something military coups later, we have Zardari, the corrupt husband of Benazir Bhutto, "Mr. 10 per cent", running the whole country and the Taliban-wannabes chipping away at the social order. Would Jinnah recognise the Pakistan of today?

Nope he would never be able to! This Pakistan is not at all the Pakistan he desired. Who says we are free people now after getting independence? We are not. There has only been a change of leadership on us. Nothing else!

Zardari is the most infamous person nowadays in my country. The nation, as a whole would love to throw him off his throne! He has made all of us like beggars living on the charity of America! Yukh! He has totally destroyed the image of Pakistanis. We are under the burden of mountain high loans. But I wonder where do these loans go? Oh yeah in Zaradari's
pocket.:raging:

I feel Pakistanis need to understand why the British Empire allowed Pakistan to be formed.

One thing, British had no option left at the end but to let a new country being formed. The elections of 1945 left no alternative for the British.

It was because Pakistan would act as a buffer to the Soviet Union. Cue the Taliban.

The Talibans were not there at that time. They are the product of later times. The Soviet Union was also not on Afghan borders. So the creation of Pakistan is not the outcome of these two points.

So which is the lesser of the three evils in the current climate: the current Zardari government, Taliban takeover, or a U.S. occupation? I would say Zardari has to keep control, for if these uneducated Taliban-wannabes take over it will trigger a U.S. invasion anyways.

Zardari government is a lesser evil compared to other 2. Talibans are a threat but not as much bigger as USA. All this Taliban problem has been created by USA actually! USA made these Talibans to help them fight off the Soviet Union. But was it worth something? If there is no Soviet Union ruling over us, there is this USA doing this job perfectly. Even after the Taliban threat is over, USA would create an entirely new one for us. Afghanistan and Iraq are in USA control already. Now its our turn or Iran's! The "black water" U.S secret army who killed the Iraqis and Afghanis; raped their daughters and slaughtered their children are now in Pakistan. They have settled in our capital city Islamabad and are planning to have their hands on our nuclear weapons. U.S.A is clearly planning an invasion no matter what that requires!

So lets hope Zardari can keep it on ice until Pakistan can sort itself out. :hmm:

I pray the same. After finishing with Taliban, may we Pakistanis be able to throw USA off our heads and then to deal with Zardari and his inefficient PPP!

Please pray for us dear brother.

Allahafiz!imsad

[Masuma]

According to military strategy, number of attacker troops must three times bigger than their defensive enemy.
Now, do you understand why Pakistani govt send 30,000 troops ?.

Number of attacker troops may increase to far more than thrice our army's size in future as the Talibans are calling out for help the other Talibans of Afghanistan.

Oh Allah! What a trial has befallen us! America's propaganda is ultimately winning through. Do you know that America so treacherously has called off her army from the Afghan border posts so that the Taliban of Afghanistan also start pouring into Pakistan. American army was serving as barrier and so the Afghani Talibans were not finding their way through this army. But now as the army has been removed from its post, the Afghan Talibans would find it a piece of cake to land in Pakistan and blast its cities!


Believe me brother, our enemies are not Talibans but it is U.S.A. (When I say U.S.A, it means I am talking about U.S government having an anti-Pak propaganda. I am not talking about Americans as many of them are good people, just and fair in their views.)



America first created Talibans itself, then became against them and tried to make them get busy in war with Pakistan. The Talibans in Swat and the Pakistanis actually reached a peace treaty but of course America would not have endured it. America wanted Pakistan to remain in state of war and so it coined a plan which again let to disputes between Pakistanis and Talibans.
Talibans were actually trained to liberate Kashmir, a Muslim territory under the oppression of non-Muslims.

Do you know that America is somewhat trapped in Afghanistan. Its army is losing at the hands of Talibans who are trying to liberate Afghanistan from Americans. But how cleverly America played its turn. It has engaged Pakistanis in war with Talibans so that the Talibans of Afghanistan also come to fight with Pakistan army and America finds its coast clear in Afghanistan finally.

No matter who wins, I will lose.:cry: Suppose if 10 of my soldiers die, and 20 of Pakistani Talibans die, Pakistan would lose 30 Pakistanis in total. America would lose none of its people!

America has done air attacks on the Talibans and so they retaliated. Their method of retaliation was clearly wrong (by doing bomb blasts in many cities) but the Talibans were driven to this point. Yes I agree that some Talibans may be doing it for meeting their own ends but as a whole, I blame America. I will never forgive you America for taking so many lives of my people!:cry::cry: InshAllah my Allah will soon inflict a severe punishment upon you!

Suppose if you are living in an area where there come some terrorists in your neighborhood. America finds it out and so it sends fighter jets to bomb your neighborhood. Its "so said" purpose is to only kill those terrorists but is America so foolish to realize that your house will also come fall in the air attack range? Of course not! The engineers can easily calculate the range which falls in particular air attacks. But America simply don't care for your life and for your family! You are not important to her. You are just so inferior to be even taken as a human being. America will simply come and bomb the terrorists' house but your house will also be bombed in the process. DO YOU CALL IT FAIR??? DO YOU CALL IT JUST? :offended:
Many people of Swat and Baluchistan lost their lives or their loved ones like this! What about them O people?
Hazrat Ali (r.a) says that fear those who have nothing else left to lose.

America by bombing the houses of innocent people prepared hundreds of suicide bombers on the spot!!!

Now its propaganda is nearly to be accomplished. I suggest that war has never been a right resort for something. It has never been a good alternative. Pakistani government should hold talks with the leaders of Talibans. It should not do whatever America says and should try to make Talibans understand that they are doing wrong. Killing all of them is not the right solution. But I think that that time has long been past.

Would you like to read a poem I wrote regarding this? Its not much scholarly but presents my true feelings.

Hail! Hail...! Hail to the Enemy
You Satan won!
Pakistan repelling you? Those days are simply gone!

Look O master! The wonders we are doing in your name.
Even killing our own brethren has brought us no shame!

Brother thirsty for other brother's blood.
A big achievement indeed!
We followed your footsteps and your whisperings were successful to mislead.

O you Satans!
I spit on your face and my curses on you!:cry:
Ruthlessly you slaughtered my people so why to left only a few?

"O my people! O MY PEOPLE!" I cried and cried.
They are dead; my heart pierced and my tears have dried.

No more tears are left but only blood,
So let the blood of my Ummah fall from my eyes.

I am dead, I am dying and I'll die.
No end to this suffering, O Allah, Oh beloved Allah! why?

Many people have simply vanished, their voices so unheard.
But listen to the winds, they carry their moans, their cries, their last words!

Will I ever be able to forgive you Satans? O that will never happen!
You have sown seeds of hatred, and fruits of your plans are ripened.

People killing one another who are not even their enemies.
Hail! Hail...! Hail to the Enemy!

But know this that I have stopped being hopeless from the moment Allah showed me guidance.
When He filled my heart with Truth so that I could smell Islam's fragrance.

So I'll wait, wait patiently for the Day,
When you will be ruined and punished, for that is Allah's way.

He gives you time, lots of time to turn to the Right.
But soon will you be destroyed and in dust will fall your might.

The mourning people, their cries echo in my head all the time,
Their pain splinters my heart and I ask you "their loved ones have been killed for what crime"?

Soon the blood of innocent will speak and the evil will be rooted out,
Then I may die peacefully for my mission will be accomplished for which I so long fought.

imsad

[waji]

:sl:

A possibility--- it is a bit odd that they have such a large supply of American made weapons.

Are you sure American supplied the weapons and allowed to handover to Afghans
Well the supply was not that much first, second it was through Pakistan and alot of weapons were not given to Afghans


Mr. Hameed Gul who was the ISI chief during Afghan Russia war
he had said on numerous occasions that they got alot of confirmed news about some finding of caves full of weapons which were kept by Russians. He also told about the amount of weapons found in one those caves were so much that could equipped three Regiments of Army. and Afghanistan is filled with those kind of caves and he didn't knew how much more Taliban have found.

Till now how they are getting the Arms see this video
although the quality is not good but they are fighting with them


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9xf62PKC5M

[nocturnal]

I don't think Zardari and his generals can keep tabs on the Pakistani Taliban. We are talking about battle-hardened guerillas who have intimate knowledge of the mountainous areas in which they are embedded and from where they deploy scores of suicide bombers to wreak havoc.

I think in the end, Zardari will have to negotiate with them. I don't particularly subscribe to the Pakistani Taliban's vision of what Pakistan ought to be like, but im in no doubt that one of their principal grievances is with the complicity of the Zardari's administration in US drone attacks.

And also with respect to the Taliban, they may be uncivilised barbarians, but i think they too are under no illusion about what they're facing in the Pakistani Military. It is a formidable opponent that they cannot just repulse using Kaleshnikovs and RPGs in the face of such vast numbers of troops being poured into the tribal areas. They are possibly vying for more potent bargaining chips so in the end they will dictate terms for a new agreement that will again re-instate a devolved administration.

[Woodrow]

:sl:



Are you sure American supplied the weapons and allowed to handover to Afghans
Well the supply was not that much first, second it was through Pakistan and alot of weapons were not given to Afghans


Mr. Hameed Gul who was the ISI chief during Afghan Russia war
he had said on numerous occasions that they got alot of confirmed news about some finding of caves full of weapons which were kept by Russians. He also told about the amount of weapons found in one those caves were so much that could equipped three Regiments of Army. and Afghanistan is filled with those kind of caves and he didn't knew how much more Taliban have found.

Till now how they are getting the Arms see this video
although the quality is not good but they are fighting with them


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9xf62PKC5M

I can not say it was weapons deliberately handed over to the Taliban, but an awful lot of USA weapons seem to have been lost or misplaced or otherwise unaccounted for. In my opinion the Taliban are either deliberately armed by the US or it is through gross negligence.

[ardianto]

Number of attacker troops may increase to far more than thrice our army's size in future as the Talibans are calling out for help the other Talibans of Afghanistan.

Actually, 3 attacker for 1 defender is a number for attack a fortress. But I think Taliban will not waiting for the enemy behind sand bags, they would use guerrillas tactic. And I guess number of attacker troops would increase when Pakistani govt realize, is very very hard to defeat Taliban.

Sister, I know you sad because some people show their hatred to Taliban. But I have a news, and I hope it will make you little feel better.
On some Indonesian TVs and many newspapers, Taliban are called as Pejuang not gerilyawan (Guerrillas) or milisi (Militia).
Maybe this is jut a word, but Pejuang is used only for call honored fighter who fight for defend the right. We never call terrorist as Pejuang.

[Masuma]

:sl:

Actually, 3 attacker for 1 defender is a number for attack a fortress. But I think Taliban will not waiting for the enemy behind sand bags, they would use guerrillas tactic. And I guess number of attacker troops would increase when Pakistani govt realize, is very very hard to defeat Taliban.

Dear bro, Pak army is not to be taken lightly. Its not like puffing your chest with proud on something only imaginary, but it is true. Pak army has been counted as among the top six armies of the world. We are smaller in number but the tactics our army uses are far more superior to Taliban's disorganized attacks!

And yeah one more thing, Talibans even at the time of peace never remained hidde behind sandbags. They kept popping out from time to time blasting themselves in the middle of my poor public!

Talibans strategy is going to be even more vicious then simple guerrilla war tactics. They are planning to cause terror not only on the border but in general public too. They have been able to suspend the normal routine of the whole country. It is like one whole week has passed and the colleges, schools, working places and other institutions are closed. Nobody knows for sure when the normal routine will return. All are afraid of being blasted inb a suicide bomb attack.

I think it was yesterday when Pak police arrested 5 or 6 suicide bombers in Islamabad. They won't be makking it any easier for us but we don't fear them. If the army fails, the nation will face the Taliban itself. Cuz we know that only two options are left
1. kill Talibans
2. or being killed yourself.

Be a predator or be a prey. The path to the middle is no more there.

Pak has only sent a small portion of army to deal with Talibans cuz Pakistan believes that only these soldiers will be enough to kill them. Also that the tribes of northern areas like Pakhtuns and Balochis etc are also with the army. These tribe people are those whom no one has ever been able to subdue. They know all taliban strategies because like talibans, they too live in mountainous areas.

Govt has set a reward on the heads of talibans and the tribe people would do anything for money. So the probability of winning a war against Taliban by Pak army is much high!:statisfie

Sister, I know you sad because some people show their hatred to Taliban.

Noooooo! I am not sad due to this reason. Talibans activities rightly deserve hatred! I am sad only that it was American propaganda behind all this scene and America won't lose any of its army men but only Pak will suffer the casualties. And we are obeying America who has killed our own people but we don't care! If it wasn't have been America behind it, no trouble would have befallen Pak!

Maybe this is jut a word, but Pejuang is used only for call honored fighter who fight for defend the right. We never call terrorist as Pejuang.

O brother! Right can never be to kill innocent people! Right can never be to slaughter the little children, burn their schools and take out dead from their graves and hang them on the streets!

Talibans are NOT on the right path. Killing an innocent, well they have killed hundreds! I don't call it right! And nothing can justify this atrocious activity! Talibans are mislead people! We don't love them at all!

My hate is only for America due to which Pak is forced to kill the mislead people!

[Masuma]

:sl:

I can not say it was weapons deliberately handed over to the Taliban, but an awful lot of USA weapons seem to have been lost or misplaced or otherwise unaccounted for. In my opinion the Taliban are either deliberately armed by the US or it is through gross negligence.

"Out of negligence?" Bwhahaaha! Well nobody aspects the US (WORLD SUPPER POWER) to be that much foolish. Smuggling of the weapons is not easy., in US case, almost impossible. All weapons are registered so no country would be too foolish to let these registered weapons be lost. It can come in any body's hand who can use it for crimes and terrorist purposes. US has done it deliberately, just in the same way as India's Raw is doing its job!

Also don't you wonder why this "by chance" thingy US never plays with India? 'Cuz it knows that if any of its weapons are found in India, India would be too quick to take serious actions against it.

As I always say that there are big outside anti-Pak schemes playing in the scene and trying their utmost to bring destruction of Pak which Allah will never let to happen. Allah-o-Akbar!

[ardianto]

Talibans are NOT on the right path. Killing an innocent, well they have killed hundreds! I don't call it right! And nothing can justify this atrocious activity! Talibans are mislead people! We don't love them at all!

Don't tell it to me, but tell it to some people in my country.

Okay, okay, I confess, I didn't read your post completely, it's too long.

[Ramadhan]

And the graduates of Afghan war/Talibans have been causing terror attacks in Indonesia, killing hundreds of civilians.

[ardianto]

I read on my newspaper today, they have change pejuang into militan (militant) for call Taliban.

[Masuma]

:bism:

:salamext:

I read on my newspaper today, they have change pejuang into militan (militant) for call Taliban.

Heheeehe! :giggling: Gud to know that dear bro!

And brother, please give awareness to the people around you. They have a right to know what is truth and what is false.

If you people, our own beloved Muslim brothers, will call our enemies heroes, don't you think that it is then too natural for us, Pakistanis, to be angry on this?

Won't you hate those people who hate your brethren?

Talibans have shown their hatred towards us by blasting my innocent people! Oh Allah!
Do you know how much terror and hate it brings in your heart when you see your loved one's head detached from his/her body? :cry: Their limbs falling here and there, and the sisters' hair on the trees and pieces of their flesh thrown in every direction, this Zulm (injustice) is enough to splinter someone's heart into pieces!

Please pray for us, your own brothers, facing trials of worst type.

May Allah bless you and save people around you from the trials which have befallen my people!:cry:

[IbnAbdulHakim]

ive been hearing that the taliban of the pakistan is fake...



it feels terrible sitting here not knowing whats TRUELLY happening with the muslims.


simply cant trust media..

[Masuma]

:bism:

:salamext:

Don't tell it to me, but tell it to some people in my country.

But how can I? I don't even know them. I'll tell it to everyone I know. Everyone has a right to know what is truth and what is false.

Okay, okay, I confess, I didn't read your post completely, it's too long.

:giggling: Yup! You are right dear bro! From now onwards, I'll try to write shorter ones. (Don't like reading long posts myself.;D)

May Allah bless you.

Wasalam!

[Masuma]

ive been hearing that the taliban of the pakistan is fake...

Oh pleasssse! Why do people say such things if they don't know what actually is right? Dear bro, Talibans are here, killing your Ummah, blasting them into pieces! We are all their target. Talibans are on our borders and our army is holding them back from coming and taking over the whole country.

it feels terrible sitting here not knowing whats TRUELLY happening with the muslims.

:(Yeh! Very true. I felt the same way for Palestine and Afghanistan.

simply cant trust media..

100% right again! DON't trust BBC, CNN, Fox News etc. They won't tell you what actually is happening!

[Woodrow]

ive been hearing that the taliban of the pakistan is fake...



it feels terrible sitting here not knowing whats TRUELLY happening with the muslims.


simply cant trust media..

I see it as worse than that. I believe thousands of very sincere young people are being mislead into fighting for the desires of some unscrupulous people and believe they are fighting to protect Islam.

May those sincere young people be blessed for their intentions and the evil doers misleading them face the punishment they deserve.

[Masuma]

And the graduates of Afghan war/Talibans have been causing terror attacks in Indonesia, killing hundreds of civilians.

Really? But how did they get there? I mean Indonesia is far better in security settings than Pak and still the Talibans managed to do attacks?

[Woodrow]

Really? But how did they get there? I mean Indonesia is far better in security settings than Pak and still the Talibans managed to do attacks?

questions worth asking:

All of this takes considerable money.

Who is supplying the needed money to the Taliban?


These young people appear to very well trained in guerilla warfare

Who is training them?
Where are they being trained?

[Masuma]

questions worth asking:

All of this takes considerable money.

Who is supplying the needed money to the Taliban?

These young people appear to very well trained in guerilla warfare

Who is training them?

Ummm, I think a Pakistani can answer you this better 'cuz Talibans were created by Pakistan:embarrass and America! How shocking!!! But dear bro, life is far more complicated than what people think. What I have learned from my country's history is to

Never make assumptions about anything at all!

Talibans were created by America to fight the Soviet Union which was at that time, invading Afghanistan. Talibans were created and trained by Pakistan with the aim of liberating Kashmir, a Muslim territory under non-Muslim oppression. Pakistanis, just for seeing their Muslim brothers free, gave money to Talibans out of their own pockets! We trained them for a very gud cause but what they did, they simply turned on us, the people who made and supported them on the first place. They are more rightly called as Traitors!

And now, India's Raw and America is funding their evil cause.:raging:

Also that they have gathered enough money by torturing and black mailing the Tribal people of my country.

Where are they being trained?

I think they are being trained in hidden areas of Afghanistan or maybe somewhere in the mountainous areas of Pak.

[GuestFellow]

Pakistan 'takes key Taliban town'

^ Click the link above to read the article. I decided to post the topic here...

[Ummu Sufyaan]

it feels terrible sitting here not knowing whats TRUELLY happening with the muslims.

things like this :(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ0x5ZLbeqQ&feature=fvsr

now look of the nerve pigs like this have to make themselves look like the victims...unbelievable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3l17...eature=channel

and this:
http://www.islamicboard.com/712717-post1.html :(

they're are abit old, but it none-the-less happens.

simply cant trust media..

try this then:
http://www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/

Oh pleasssse! Why do people say such things if they don't know what actually is right? Dear bro, Talibans are here, killing your Ummah, blasting them into pieces! We are all their target. Talibans are on our borders and our army is holding them back from coming and taking over the whole country.

i dont think you should jump to conclusions so fast. think about it. how justified would the war be without the "threat" of the Taliban? the true perpetrators are always seen as heros, whilst the real victims are seen as the perpetrators. no one really knows what goes on in there...

[Mujahideen92]

I hope they get rid of the disease of unislamic fighters springing up everywhere

I agree, the Taliban was once an organization of freedom but now they have grown power hungry and corrupted.

[Amadeus85]

[QUOTE=Woodrow;1233042]

questions worth asking:


Who is supplying the needed money to the Taliban?

Yes, who, Woodrow. That's honest question, I really have no idea WHO.

Who is training them?
Where are they being trained?

If You have any idea, can You tell. That would be interesting, as it seems that You know the situation there clearly.

[Insaanah]

They may have blood on their hands, but Muslims killing their Muslim brothers on kuffaar say so is NOT acceptable. Thats exactly what the US goverment wants, so that no Muslims will join forces and potentailly unite against them. It also gives them an excuse to maintain some sort of a presence in the country, and do their military exercises, use the airspace, and whatever else it is that they do. It's a shame that both sides can't see the stupidity of their actions, and where this may lead them on Yaumul Qiyaamah. Who do they really fear, Allah or taaghoot?

[Woodrow]

[QUOTE=Amadeus85;1235371]

Yes, who, Woodrow. That's honest question, I really have no idea WHO.






If You have any idea, can You tell. That would be interesting, as it seems that You know the situation there clearly.

I actually have no first hand knowledge. Just what I have heard from people who have recently been in Pakistan. I have noticed a shift over the past year. About a year ago every recent arrival I met from Pakistan indicated that the Taliban were brave Pakistanis attempting to over throw the corrupt USA backed Pakistan Government. The recent arrivals are now saying they believe them to be Afghanistanians funded by the USA and trained in Afghanistan for the purpose of occupation of the SWAT region.

I really don't know what the truth about the Taliban, except that over the past few years people operating under the name Taliban have targeted more Muslims than non-Muslims. It seems that a civilian in North East Pakistan is more likely to be killed by a person calling himself Taliban then a USA soldier in Afghanistan.

[nocturnal]

The Pakistani Taliban seems quite distinct from the Afghan Taliban. I don't think they are answerable to the same higher authorities and their operational structures seem be different. The most fundamental difference i guess is that the Afghan Taliban is engaged in a determined guerilla insurgency against the occupation forces, where as in Pakistan, the Taliban there are taking on the full might of the Pakistani Military head-on. Even the deployment of 30,000 soldiers hasn't unnerved them, it actually galvanizes their resolve to engage the military there in a direct confrontation.

Their logic seems to be; if we beat them, fair and well. If we don't, we get martyrdom while trying to. How do you tackle a force that is fired up with such zeal derived from an intense desire for martyrdom. Im sure the Pakistani government knows this, and the Obama administration too. I can't help but think that this will turn into another vietnam for the US and its allies.

Think about it guys; the formidable military might of the Soviet Union was unable to defeat them, were routed decisively and compelled to withdraw in ignominy. It's quite clear that both the Afghani and Pakistani Taliban are unwavering adherents of that same doctrine of dedicated resistance. And Pakistan is the nation with most to loose. How long will they go on fighting the wars of the US on it's behalf on Pakistani territory?

Zardari should exercise some judiciousness, cut his losses now and negotiate another truce with the militants. It's such a startling situation, 3 Muslim countries, all of them in a perilous situation, Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan. All of them in a state of carnage as a direct consequence of US policy.

[Humbler_359]

Pakistan Zindabad !
Our flag is still top on the hill. :D

[meer5sd]

why in pakistan muslims are killing there own brothers???

[Humbler_359]

why in pakistan muslims are killing there own brothers???

:sl: Brother,

No, we are not killing brothers and sisters. It is TERRORISTS groups who are attacking people by suicide bombing in the beginning as they are not Muslims. It is our TIME for Pakistani army to finish off . I assure you, it would NOT take forever in short-war.

Terrorists groups (Taliban, funded by India, US and Israel), the news confirmed it. Why? IT is because they want to DESTABLIZE Pakistan from getting stronger.

[Supreme]

why in pakistan muslims are killing there own brothers???

Because that's the way the Taliban works. Even their Muslim brothers are not safe from them. The Taliban no longer distinguishes from Muslim or Christian or civilian or soldier- anyone who doesn't ascribe to their way of life will be killed. It is as simple as that.

[Woodrow]

why in pakistan muslims are killing there own brothers???

Self defense comes to mind. The Taliban in Pakistan have not killed anybody except Pakistani Muslims. Sort of leads one to believe they are not very friendly to Pakistani Muslims.

[nocturnal]

The Pakistani Taliban in terms of their ideological goals, are their own worst enemies. By wreaking carnage in major cities through multiple suicide bombings and besieging the HQs of the Pakistani military, they are only bringing upon themselves more bitter denunciation and condemnation. Even those elements in Pakistan that are genuinely progressive and seek to reform the political organisation of the country are compelled to rally behind the government and support the military in it's endeavours to vanquish decisively the Pakistani Taliban.

I do not understand how the Pakistani Taliban can justify such horrific and indiscriminate acts of violence, especially suicide bombings, that have claimed hundreds of lives and see that as an acceptable act in furthering their causes, which are supposedly guided by Islamic principles. It is just more propaganda material for the neo-colonial Western regimes, that will use this to justify extending their occupation and absolute militarisation of Afghanistan and the wider region.