Racist hate on Muslims

[The_Prince]

a 30 min panaroma documentary on racism 2 Muslims encounter while staying in some estate:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/panorama/hi/fr...00/8310825.stm

:) the only thing i disagree with is the victim mentality, now no doubt the Muslims were victims, but we shouldnt act weak and scared, rather we should stand up to these thugs, thats my personal view anyway, if me and my friends came across thugs like this oh how much fun we would have.

dont forget what happened in harrow and birmingham, thats the REALITY of what happens when you stand up to these weak thugs, them running with their tails between their legs.

[GuestFellow]

Thanks for posting this bro. I haven't came across this...

[aamirsaab]

a 30 min panaroma documentary on racism 2 Muslims encounter while staying in some estate:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/panorama/hi/fr...00/8310825.stm

:) the only thing i disagree with is the victim mentality, now no doubt the Muslims were victims, but we shouldnt act weak and scared, rather we should stand up to these thugs, thats my personal view anyway, if me and my friends came across thugs like this oh how much fun we would have.

dont forget what happened in harrow and birmingham, thats the REALITY of what happens when you stand up to these weak thugs, them running with their tails between their legs.

Saw that program. Man I always get angry when the victims don't do anything - so many times during the program I was saying: shoulda smacked that punk; shoulda said something witty etc etc.

But I had a talk with my parents about it who where watching it with me and tbh they were right to not fight (they most likely would have got killed doing that or ironically got arrested...). Though, I did find it a bit stupid for them to intentionally walk towards the thugs they KNEW were racist (at the end, they could have just walked on the other side of the road, but I guess the point of the program was to show you how bad racism can get)

Still, I think I'll look into Muay Thai or TKD (I think the former is illegal in this country) as a form of stress relief and self-defence. Just in case.

[The_Prince]

it is true that you shouldnt always react, and sometimes just walk away, as the prophet even taught. but when it keeps happening, and the situation gets worst, then sometimes you have to take action in SELF DEFENSE, because thats the only language these thugs understand, once you give them a good beating and stand up for yourself you will watch them running.

in that documentary they played a video clip of three racists attacking 2 store owners, and what happened? the store owners put up a very weak resistence because they were smaller, outnumbered, and behind a counter, but even with their limited resistence of hitting the guys with some objects they had managed to defend themselves and have the three thugs running like cowards!

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[Güven]

I agree with that they should have acted more defensively. They could have prevented it, but its still annoying to see those thugs doing things whatever they want.

Still, I think I'll look into Muay Thai or TKD (I think the former is illegal in this country) as a form of stress relief and self-defence. Just in case.

Muay Thai is illegal in the UK? its very much legal here in the rest of the world though.

[Fishman]

Still, I think I'll look into Muay Thai or TKD (I think the former is illegal in this country) as a form of stress relief and self-defence. Just in case.

:sl:

Muay Thai is definitely legal. But I think you need some kind of licence (or 'group membership card') to practice it.

Pencak Silat is good as well.

[I<3Bush]

Is there a full version to this somewhere? I don't get that station over where I'm at.

[Muezzin]

:sl:

Muay Thai is definitely legal. But I think you need some kind of licence (or 'group membership card') to practice it.

So, if you use Muay Thai after your card has expired, do a bunch of Thai midgets fall out of the sky to continuously roundhouse kick you in the face?

Pencak Silat is good as well.

Sounds like a fish of some sort.

Anyway, back to the topic, I missed this programme. I'll have a look for it on iPlayer.

Ooh, iPlayer, with a lower-case i. I'm so eHippety eHoppety.

[GuestFellow]

Okay I finished watching the programme. It pissed me off.

[I<3Bush]

Hmm I tried that iPlayer but it only works for people in the UK. Anyone know a way around this? I'd love to watch this.

[Re.TiReD]

Ooh, iPlayer, with a lower-case i. I'm so eHippety eHoppety.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode..._the_Doorstep/

[Argamemnon]

I refuse to watch it since I can't stand injustice.

[The_Prince]

these people are savages, :), a documentary like this will not change anything, we all know what we have to do to stop this. :)

[Blackpool]

these people are savages, :), a documentary like this will not change anything, we all know what we have to do to stop this. :)

What's that?

[The_Prince]

What's that?

unite, form defence groups, and confront these ppl. the police and ppl in charge of stopping such things seem to be incapable of doing so, and they dont seem to be bothered, hence ppl must take their defence into their own hands. and not in the UK only, but all over Europe, and the U.S., its bound to happen soon.

also be more active in spreading the truth, set up conferences, websites, debates, etc etc.

and last but not least spread the word to Muslims in the Muslim world, let them know whats happening to their brothers and sisters, and then they could turn the heat up on none-Muslims living in the Muslim world and then surely it may make some ppl pay attention and end abuses of Muslims in the west.

[The_Prince]

What's that?

this documentary should concern you more than me, these are your fellow people, and this is a wide trend. racist hate on Muslims is just part of it, these ppl hate everyone, blacks, browns etc etc. these are the ppl who go on to become nothing, but just cause trouble and problems for all innocent ppl, and they are a huge rising problem in England.

there are countless stories of ppl going through hell of abuse by these ppl, so you should be concerned and think of something to fix it up because if you dont its only bad for the social structure of your country in the future. even if you were to remove ALL Muslims these idiots would still be there causing trouble and doing nothing good.

[Blackpool]

unite, form defence groups, and confront these ppl. the police and ppl in charge of stopping such things seem to be incapable of doing so, and they dont seem to be bothered, hence ppl must take their defence into their own hands. and not in the UK only, but all over Europe, and the U.S., its bound to happen soon.

Oh right ok, so by doing this you'll actually cure their hatred of muslims? It will do the exact opposite as this would FUEL Islamophobia. This sort of thing is what made me anti-muslim a few years ago until I recently signed up to the forum. I despised muslims and refused to get into an "Asian" taxi opting for the white guy. This was the result of the violence I saw committed by muslims in the U.S, UK AND Christians in the middle east.

also be more active in spreading the truth, set up conferences, websites, debates, etc etc.

Knowledge is a powerful tool... but ..

and last but not least spread the word to Muslims in the Muslim world, let them know whats happening to their brothers and sisters, and then they could turn the heat up on none-Muslims living in the Muslim world and then surely it may make some ppl pay attention and end abuses of Muslims in the west.

If muslims then encourage fellow muslims to start giving non-muslims a hard time I myself would turn anti-muslim. Taking it out on innocent people because of a few is absolutely stupid and would swing me towards the BNP without hesitation.

Knowledge is best, violence is damaging.

[Amadeus85]

and last but not least spread the word to Muslims in the Muslim world, let them know whats happening to their brothers and sisters, and then they could turn the heat up on none-Muslims living in the Muslim world and then surely it may make some ppl pay attention and end abuses of Muslims in the west.

The heat is already on Prince, since every year christians are killed for their faith in Egypt, Nigeria, Sudan and lately often in Turkey and Indonesia.
But thats nothing, since in Europe we do another Holocaust by banning burka.

[Muslim Woman]

:sl:

a 30 min panaroma documentary on racism 2 Muslims encounter while staying in some estate:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/panorama/hi/fr...00/8310825.stm

.

Sorry I can't watch video ....Is this the same story ?

Muslim Reporters Uncover British Racism

Going undercover as an Asian husband and wife, two British Muslim reporters have documented the scale of resurgent racism and abuse, both verbal and physical, in the British city of Bristol, filming themselves while being bullied, attacked and racially-abused.


"From the moment that my colleague Amil Khan and I drove onto the road that would become our home for the coming months, we were subjected to the coldest glare I have ever experienced," said Tamanna Rahman, a reporter of Asian origins.

Rahman and Khan, posing as an Asian husband and wife, moved on to an estate in Bristol earlier this year and used hidden cameras to record people attitude towards them.

During their eight-week stay, they recorded more than 50 separate incidents of racist attacks, both for their race and their religion.

"I haven't faced as much racism in my life as I have during these eight weeks," said Rahman.

"Over the course of our investigation I would have glass, a can, a bottle and stones thrown at me,” she added.

"On my second day on the estate I had a rock thrown towards me as I returned from a shopping trip.”

In one scene, stones are thrown at Rahman and she is told to get out of the area.

A young boy has also threatened to kill her and tried to steal her purse.

Another clips showed her being called “Raghead” and being told “Go away. Iraq’s that way.”

"I was called "Paki" and had obscenities muttered at me as I walked by."

The word "Paki" is derogatory slang for an immigrant or descendant of Pakistani background.

"I just didn't think humans could be like that," Rahman said.

Britain has a sizable Muslim minority of more than two millions, mostly of Pakistani, Bengali and Indian origins.

Hellish

Tamanna spoke about the painful adventure she had to endure in Bristol.

"Pretty much every time I left the house, and from many people I met, I would get frowns and generally be made to feel unwelcome- whether they were on the street, in their gardens, looking out of their bedroom windows or in their cars."

She said the abuse experience ranged from physical attack to muttered insults.

”I’m sorry the thing that is going to stay with me the most is the absolutely hellish time I have every time I’ve walked out of the door.”

Bristol is England's sixth and the United Kingdom's eighth most populous city.

It is the largest centre of culture, employment and education in the region.

In the 2001 Census, 60 percent of Bristol's population said they were Christian, and 25 percent stated they were not religious.

Islam accounts for 2 percent of the population and the Muslim community is served by at least three mosques.

Britain’s ethnic minorities are racked by the pain of racism with an estimated 87,000 members of ethnic minorities being a victim of racially motivated crimes.

Figures also show that ethnic minorities have the worst unemployment and housing crises in the country.

Some 70 percent of all ethnic minorities live in the 88 most deprived areas, compared to 40 percent of the general population.


Related Links

Racism Plagues British Job Market
Racism Rears in Cornwall
Britain Gripped by Resurgent Racism
UK Muslim, Black Lawyers Suffer Racism
UK Racism Haunts Muslim Family



http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...News/NWELayout

[Argamemnon]

The heat is already on Prince, since every year christians are killed for their faith in Egypt, Nigeria, Sudan and lately often in Turkey and Indonesia.
But thats nothing, since in Europe we do another Holocaust by banning burka.

There are more than 10 million Christians in Egypt and Syria and Lebanon. They have been living there for thousands of years. If you compare this with European history throughout the same period, you can easily conclude who is more tolerant.

Peace

[S_87]

[QUOTE=Amadeus85;1231206]The heat is already on Prince, since every year christians are killed for their faith in Egypt, Nigeria, Sudan and lately often in Turkey and Indonesia.
[QUOTE]


this is also clearly wrong :) but two wrongs dont make a right

if someone is being racist i think the best thing to do is to pretend you didnt hear them. sure some may think that as weak but the person wants a reaction, why give them one?

[Raaina]

I didn't watch the program. But this kind of think makes me so sad :(
Amani is right, sometimes it's just better not to react, karma can sort them out.

[Thinker]

I watched that programme. The programme was clearly made to coincide with this weeks ‘Question Time’ programme which will be the first time that the BNP has been given a place on such a programme. The programme makers clearly set out with an agenda to find the answer that they wanted – that Britain is racist. They rented a house on a housing estate notorious for lawless feral youths. The Bangladesh woman, wearing a hijab style head-dress walked amongst groups of teenagers that I would be afraid to walk amongst. The Pakistani man stood in front of them and refused to move on as they warned him to and stood there until one of them hit him. Were these teenagers wrong – ABSOLUTELY but theses testosterone fuelled idiots would have done and have done the same to anyone no matter what their colour. . . . . (see below links). Rhys Jones a young white boy was killed by such youths just because he was on the wrong side of the road trespassing in their territory. A mother killed herself and her disabled daughter after years of abuse by such youths.

What I saw was that ever single adult approached by the Asian couple treated them with courtesy and respect. Although they tried hard to find racism they never got one hint of it from any adult they approached. One man came running from his house to rescue the Asian woman from a young lad trying to rob her and after chasing the lad away returned to ask the woman is she was OK.

If I, a white Anglo Saxon mature male, walked onto that estate and stood in front of those youths I would expect trouble. My wife would walk amongst them for any amount of money. Is that right ABSOLUTELY not but it’s not racism no is lawless hooliganism.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-sto...5875-19867419/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-car-fire.html

[aadil77]

I saw this yesterday, nothing in that programme surprised me.

They were a bunch of chavs, quite tolerant tbh compared to how bad it gets in other areas, I expected alot more from them eg; bricks thru their house windows, petrol bomb attacks etc. Alot of the stuff wouldn't have happened if they'd kept their heads down and avoided eye contact, basically avoided trouble. Turning back, stopping and talking in a freshy accent is just calling for trouble and is instantly gonna provoke them. If you dont have manpower to deal with them then you just have to walk on.

The reality is, this is normal in poor areas. You will always get these yobs on the streets showing their true colours, they'll have a go at anyone who doesn't fit in, wether they're fresh off the boat indians or white ukrainians who cant speak english, it don't make a difference. Its not exactly pure racism, more like something else.

If they were living in a city which is known to be 'multicultural' you wouldn't get white yobs trying anything like that because they'll know there will be just as many asian yobs looking to fight them back.

Those reporters went too far by forcing reactions out of them, everyone knows they would have got hit, its nothing unknown to anyone that it needs to be newly reported

[The_Prince]

The heat is already on Prince, since every year christians are killed for their faith in Egypt, Nigeria, Sudan and lately often in Turkey and Indonesia.
But thats nothing, since in Europe we do another Holocaust by banning burka.

many Muslims in Europe have been beaten up and abused, and in some cases have been killed, just like a few weeks ago where an old Muslim man was killed infront of his grand-daughter. i bet you dont even know that a few years ago 2 Muslims were kidnapped in Russia and behead by neo-nazis.

also you mention nigeria, but you forget to mention that Muslims in heavily christian areas are also treated badly, its not all one way traffic in nigeria, the christians have done their fair share of killing Muslims and burning Mosques down.

to sum up, you Christians are NOT victims, everything you accuse others of comes falling back right on your shoes.

[aadil77]

brother to be honest in this case, muslims weren't being victimised. It was just purely normal street violence, you get it everywhere and with everyone

it probably happens more to muslims in america where every news channel is on about terrorists and bombings, over here they don't just victimize one group,

EDIT:

same with the russia incident, it was every brown person being terrorised not just muslims

[Rasema]

:sl:
There are a bunch of Muslims who are treated bad by others. We just don't know about them.
:wa:

[Güven]

This is just purely street terror, they don't care whom you are, they just wanna use violence.

[glo]

I haven't watched the programme yet, although I am planning to.

The term 'racism' makes me wonder (since Islam isn't connected to any 'race' from what I understand)

Do you have the impression that the hatred was expressed against the couple
1) because or their ethnic origin,
2) because of their religion,
3) both, or
4) simply because they were different?

[Cabdullahi]

Another reason why im going to the gym to pump those puny muscles gotta knock out a few teeth in *self defense* ofcourse :)

my sisters got verbal abuse and i have to defend them from these people

[GuestFellow]

I haven't watched the programme yet, although I am planning to.

The term 'racism' makes me wonder (since Islam isn't connected to any 'race' from what I understand)

Good question.

Racism is applied to race only. When someone treats another individual different due to his or her religion, I would call it bigotry. In this programme, it was a mixture of both.


You find these types of idiots anywhere. They all deserved to be whipped in public. 500 lashes.

Do you have the impression that the hatred was expressed against the couple
1) because or their ethnic origin,
2) because of their religion,
3) both, or
4) simply because they were different?

A mixture of all 4.

[Ansariyah]

In situations like this Self-defence is vital. A Barking dog is all fine but when he wants to take ur fone or bite u..thats a diff story.

Or just Move..

[Humbler_359]

:sl: Brother and Sister,

Racism happened many times throughtout history. Let's not forget.

Yesterday, it was talked about Black people. Today, it is talk about Muslims and Islam. Tomorrow, it will discuss about Chinese people when China will become strong country.

It is best to PROTEST against Racism (see pictures), we need use our voices and speak up united by 1.5 billion Muslims worldwide.

[Woodrow]

a 30 min panaroma documentary on racism 2 Muslims encounter while staying in some estate:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/panorama/hi/fr...00/8310825.stm

:) the only thing i disagree with is the victim mentality, now no doubt the Muslims were victims, but we shouldnt act weak and scared, rather we should stand up to these thugs, thats my personal view anyway, if me and my friends came across thugs like this oh how much fun we would have.

dont forget what happened in harrow and birmingham, thats the REALITY of what happens when you stand up to these weak thugs, them running with their tails between their legs.

:) the only thing i disagree with is the victim mentality,

Keep in mind they were repoters and it was their desire if not assignment to show the truth that non-combative, non aggressive Muslims do get harassed and are targets even when they pose no threat, not even in self defense. I think their documentary showed a real and brutal description of the viciousness of racism. I commend those 2 and their willingness to gather the truth even when their own selves suffered because of it.

If they had showed any signs of self defense the wrong message would have been sent and the audience would have probably gotten the impression as it is permissable to harass Muslims because they are aggressive.

It was necessary for the reporters to show the "victim Mentality" if their goal was to demonstrate Muslims are often victems and that is reality.

[titus]

it probably happens more to muslims in america where every news channel is on about terrorists and bombings, over here they don't just victimize one group,

Not one of my Muslim friends has ever been attacked or threatened with physical violence for being Muslim. I have travelled a few times with a Muslim friend whose last name is "Islam" and never once have I seen the people at the security gate treat him any different than anyone else going through security. We live in Texas (stereotyped as intolerant) and have traveled across the South and to California. Never once have I ever heard anyone even mutter something offensive, much less threaten violence or call him a terrorist.

As a matter of fact the most hate filled conversation I ever had with someone about Muslims was in a pub in London. A man in the pub found out that I had Muslim business partners and went off with all his negative stereotypes saying extremely insulting and bigoted things. Never in all my years in the USA had I ever heard anyone even come close to such hatred against Muslims as this man.

I am not naive and saying that hate crimes against Muslims don't exist in the US, but I do know that your belief that Americans are more prejudiced against Muslims than those in the UK is off the mark, and acts of violence against Muslims simply for being Muslim are very few and far between. In fact I would venture to say that tolerance of Muslims is higher in the US than in the UK or most of Europe.

[glo]

I completely agree with Woodrow.
The point of this programme was to demonstrate the unprovoked and undeserved attacks and abuse people of minorities suffer in certain areas of the country.
To start fighting back would have clouded the situation and added further fuel to the aggression.

Part of the idea was for these two British Muslims to 'become victims'. They made themselves as vulnerable as new-comers into this country, who don't know much about Britain or the British language, are.
If they had been 'themselves', they may still have suffered abuse, but probably to a lesser degree. Just being able to stand up for themselves verbally would have made a big difference. A shy young Muslimah, who doesn't seem to speak much English, seems like a perfect victim (if you feel so inclined) - she couldn't even go and report you to the police (Firstly, because she is not likely to know the process; secondly, she may be too timid; and thirdly, she may lack the language skills to tell her story)

I watched the programme last night, and I was horrified by the abuse that couple suffered.

What struck me most, was that it was actually only a handful of people, who carried out all the abuse.
I was amazed how young some of them they were! imsad

Clearly - and the female reporter said so herself - not all places in the UK are like that. In fact, they had specifically chosen this area of Bristol, because it is known to be a hotbed for racial abuse.

Now I wonder what makes some places be like this, and others not?

[titus]

I also want to add that in the time I lived in the UK on more than one occasion I had some teenage punks that tried to start something with me on the street, even though I had never even seen them before. These kids don't care who or what you are, they are simply looking for a fight and any reason they can find, whether it be religion, race, clothing or the music you listen to, they'll find a reason to start something.

I wouldn't use this incident as a yardstick to measure racism or the threat you live under being a Muslim. It's more of a yardstick of how badly some people have screwed up in raising their children.

[glo]

Good question.

Racism is applied to race only. When someone treats another individual different due to his or her religion, I would call it bigotry. In this programme, it was a mixture of both.

Now I have watched the programme myself I agree with you.

I wonder if non-Muslim people from ethnic minorities would suffer similar abuse, or less?
An what kind of experience a white British couple who has reverted to Islam would have in a place like that?

[Thinker]

Keep in mind they were repoters and it was their desire if not assignment to show the truth

Call me cynical but I am not sure if the reporters see their job as getting to the 'truth' or just getting a story. What would they do if they spent all that money setting up the scene and didn’t get any racist insults – no programme, money down the drain. They had to get someone to insult them and they were going to stand in front of any yob they could find and face them off for as long as it took until they got they got what they wanted. Indeed they wanted to be insulted and they made sure they got it.

[GuestFellow]

Indeed they wanted to be insulted and they made sure they got it.

No they didn't want to get insulted. They wanted to see whether racism exists in the country and it does. That is all that should matter. Now we can hopefully see the government take some action against racism.

Now I have watched the programme myself I agree with you.

I wonder if non-Muslim people from ethnic minorities would suffer similar abuse, or less?

An what kind of experience a white British couple who has reverted to Islam would have in a place like that?

Non-Muslims could be subjected to some form of racism. Even British people could be subjected to racism. I'm not entirely sure who is treated worse however any form of racism should not be tolerated.

I'm not entirely sure how racist people would respond to a British couple who have converted to Islam. They could be labeled as traitors.

[glo]

Non-Muslims could be subjected to some form of racism. Even British people could be subjected to racism. I'm not entirely sure who is treated worse however any form of racism should not be tolerated.

I would extend this to 'any form of discrimination and abuse should not be tolerated'.

I read today that hate crime on the whole is one the increase in the UK.
Abuse and physical attacks against homosexuals, for example, has almost doubled in some areas! That's worrying news ...

[Amadeus85]

I dont like racism, I think that I would be able to defend a person attacked by racists (although its of course easy to say, but hard to do in reality).
On the other hand, the anti- racists are simply fools with bad intentions. These are harsh words, but I know these people, I know their attitude, I know their intentions. Thats why I repeat once again, anti- racists are dangerous fools.

[جوري]

Oh right ok, so by doing this you'll actually cure their hatred of muslims?

lol.. forming defense groups will fuel hatred? if that is the case then so will a good bag of skittles.. what is your point exactly if you have ever had one?

The heat is already on Prince, since every year christians are killed for their faith in Egypt, Nigeria, Sudan and lately often in Turkey and Indonesia.
But thats nothing, since in Europe we do another Holocaust by banning burka.

you need to get out of the Warsaw ghettos and travel a little, at least before writing so freely of what allegedly goes on in other countries.. what say you?

all the best!

[Ramadhan]

The heat is already on Prince, since every year christians are killed for their faith in Egypt, Nigeria, Sudan and lately often in Turkey and Indonesia.

Can you tell us the details how/when/why/where christians are killed for their faith in Indonesia?

[Amadeus85]

you need to get out of the Warsaw ghettos and travel a little, at least before writing so freely of what allegedly goes on in other countries.. what say you?

all the best!

Skye, so You can say with 100% assurance that there is nothing wrong with the treatment of religious minorities in the countries that I have mentioned? Of course there is anti muslim prejudice in Europe, but why deny the facts that in the countries I mentioned, people get killed or beaten.

[Amadeus85]

Can you tell us the details how/when/why/where christians are killed for their faith in Indonesia?

Of course it doesnt happen constantly, thanx God, but didnt Indonesia have religious riots in last several years? Riots which led to many deaths.
What about this?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4387604.stm

Or this quote, not from hateful site, but from BBC

Central Sulawesi and Poso in particular was the scene of bitter fighting between Muslims and Christians in 2001 and 2002.

More than 1,000 people were killed before a government-brokered truce.

Although the violence has been subdued, it has never gone away completely.

A bomb in May in the nearby town of Tentena, which is predominantly Christian, killed 22 people and injured over 30.

The fighting four years ago drew Islamic militants from all over Indonesia and many have never gone home.

Analysts say the militants have targeted central Sulawesi and believe that it could be turned into the foundation stone of an Islamic state.

So I have missed something?

[aadil77]

Not one of my Muslim friends has ever been attacked or threatened with physical violence for being Muslim. I have travelled a few times with a Muslim friend whose last name is "Islam" and never once have I seen the people at the security gate treat him any different than anyone else going through security. We live in Texas (stereotyped as intolerant) and have traveled across the South and to California. Never once have I ever heard anyone even mutter something offensive, much less threaten violence or call him a terrorist.

As a matter of fact the most hate filled conversation I ever had with someone about Muslims was in a pub in London. A man in the pub found out that I had Muslim business partners and went off with all his negative stereotypes saying extremely insulting and bigoted things. Never in all my years in the USA had I ever heard anyone even come close to such hatred against Muslims as this man.

I am not naive and saying that hate crimes against Muslims don't exist in the US, but I do know that your belief that Americans are more prejudiced against Muslims than those in the UK is off the mark, and acts of violence against Muslims simply for being Muslim are very few and far between. In fact I would venture to say that tolerance of Muslims is higher in the US than in the UK or most of Europe.

I was probably wrong, I'm not from america so I wouldn't know - I was just assuming.

[Woodrow]

I was probably wrong, I'm not from america so I wouldn't know - I was just assuming.

Racism is still alive in many parts of America I am sad to say. However it is most commonly applied based on skin color not religion. The people most likely to face the pain and injustice of racism are African-Americans, Hispanics, and Native Americans.

Prejudice based on religion is not very common here, but the usual targets have historically been Roman Catholics, Jews, Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons.
Except for some bad instance shortly after 9/11 prejudice against Muslims is only found in a few area and even then seldom serious. Muslims here tend to be respected and have a higher education level and higher income then the average non-Muslim American.

[جوري]

Skye, so You can say with 100% assurance that there is nothing wrong with the treatment of religious minorities in the countries that I have mentioned? Of course there is anti muslim prejudice in Europe, but why deny the facts that in the countries I mentioned, people get killed or beaten.

because it isn't true! and I am not going to make it so, simply to even the score.. I have lived in all the places you mention with the exception of a couple, and I know by eye witness the reality of things are very incongruous with what your media will have you believe.. You are indeed entitled to your beliefs, but it doesn't facts make them!

all the best

[Woodrow]

Racism is still alive in many parts of America I am sad to say. However it is most commonly applied based on skin color not religion. The people most likely to face the pain and injustice of racism are African-Americans, Hispanics, and Native Americans.

Prejudice based on religion is not very common here, but the usual targets have historically been Roman Catholics, Jews, Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons.
Except for some bad instance shortly after 9/11 prejudice against Muslims is only found in a few area and even then seldom serious. Muslims here tend to be respected and have a higher education level and higher income then the average non-Muslim American.

I should point out that except for Austin (Which is very receptive of Muslims) I have not lived in any city for a long time and can only relate what I see in rural America. In the large cities it may be different.

[Ramadhan]

Of course it doesnt happen constantly, thanx God, but didnt Indonesia have religious riots in last several years? Riots which led to many deaths.
What about this?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4387604.stm

Yes, there were religious riots in Indonesia after the fall of Suharto, which gave rise to the regional autonomy, which was truly the root cause of many conflicts in Indonesia.

However, in your post, you said that christians were killed for their faith, which truly ignored the reality of the complexity of the conflicts in Central Sulawesi, as well as almost all other conflicts in Indonesia from Aceh to Maluku to Papua, which is natural for a modern state founded on artifical state concept of former Dutch colony and then governed for tens of years by authoritarian rule. Think Yugoslavia.

Why did you selectively say "Christians are killed for their faith in Indonesia", while conveniently ignoring that "muslims are killed for their faith in Indonesia" also?

This is from the Toronto Star (July 1, 2000) by by Paul Dillon (an Indonesian-based journalist whom I know personally who speaks the local languages):


==================
Paul Dillon POSO, Indonesia - It has been a month since a Christian
army destroyed an Indonesian village here and the jungle, fed by monsoon
rains, has begun to reclaim for its own the charred collection of rattan
and bamboo homes known as Kilometre Nine.

At least 100 Muslim men were slaughtered here May 28 in central
Sulawesi province by their long-time neighbours.

Enraged by the firebombing of several churches and Christian homes in
the port of Poso, truckloads of red-masked men armed with machetes and
homemade guns exacted their revenge on the villagers.

No trace of village villainy will remain ''They deserved to die," says
Maria, wife of one who participated in razing the village, at a meeting in
Tentena, a Christian enclave 90 minutes south of Kilometre Nine.
=====================================


The fact is, what seemingly religious-conflicts that occurred sporadically in Indonesia during 1998-2006 are caused much by dramatic changes that occurred in national and regional politics when Indonesia ended authoritarian and centralistic rule to democratic and decentralised government systems.
It is to the credit of Indonesians (majority muslims, may I remind you again) that such changes did not cause much greater bloodsheds, as had been predicted by many western governments.
And it is to the credit of Indonesians who have managed to make restore peace in such short time as well as stabilize the economy (Indonesia is one of only few countries in the world which avoided recessions both last year and this year and in fact growing healthily).

Let's compare with Yugoslavia:
After the death of Tito, Yugoslavia disintegrated, and christian serbia managed to inflict unspeakable atrocity/genocide to muslim bosnia, while the rest of europe watched from the side and did practically nothing.

[Ar-RaYYan]

I watched that programme. The programme was clearly made to coincide with this weeks ‘Question Time’ programme which will be the first time that the BNP has been given a place on such a programme. The programme makers clearly set out with an agenda to find the answer that they wanted – that Britain is racist.

Actually that was not what their agenda was. They wanted to show that racism still exist in Britain unlike what Trevor Phillips claims. People are still discriminated because their race and colour.
Visiting a small area of a city hardly makes Britain racist!

Were these teenagers wrong – ABSOLUTELY but theses testosterone fuelled idiots would have done and have done the same to anyone no matter what their colour. . . . . (see below links). Rhys Jones a young white boy was killed by such youths just because he was on the wrong side of the road trespassing in their territory. A mother killed herself and her disabled daughter after years of abuse by such youths.

I agree. Some youths would pick on anyone no mater their colour,religion , gender or age but these teenagers in southmead were clearly racist bigots. The reporters and the sudanese and Indian men were verbally and physically abused because they were not native british.

[Amadeus85]

It is to the credit of Indonesians (majority muslims, may I remind you again) that such changes did not cause much greater bloodsheds, as had been predicted by many western governments.

Ok, thanx for more info Naidamar, but does it change a meaning of my sentence?
When a blood has been shed, I can imagine that the hatred is deep there, both groups had families and cousins and they won't forget it right? Those two girls beheaded werent fabrications, and we are talking about country which is shown in our media as "liberal and tolerant". Imagine if same thing happen in Holland or France (God forbid of course). Muslims will start talking about coming Holocaust, since they make such lament when goverments want to ban niqab. And how ban of niqab can be compared to beheading of two persons. Muslims in Europe like to highlight the problems that they have to build new mosques. But what about the incredible problems of building new churches in Egypt, demolishing of churches in Indonesia, the situation in Nigeria.

[Argamemnon]

because it isn't true! and I am not going to make it so, simply to even the score.. I have lived in all the places you mention with the exception of a couple, and I know by eye witness the reality of things are very incongruous with what your media will have you believe.. You are indeed entitled to your beliefs, but it doesn't facts make them!

all the best

Salam Gossamer,

Although I hate western media depicting all Muslims as barbarians, I have to admit that bad things do happen to Christains and other minorities in Muslim countries. In my country, Turkey, they have killed priests and slit the throats of innocent Christians. Bigotry and ignorance is a worldwide problem, it must be exposed and opposed wherever it occurs. Personally, I'm not going to remain silent just because there is bias and bigotry in the western world towards Muslims..

[Argamemnon]

Muslims in Europe like to highlight the problems that they have to build new mosques. But what about the incredible problems of building new churches in Egypt, demolishing of churches in Indonesia, the situation in Nigeria.

Yes, it is true to some extent. At least in my country of origin, Turkey, it is very hard to build churches (although there is improvement). I'm not saying this to please you. I'm saying this because it's true and because I believe it's wrong. If we don't allow churches, or other places of worship in our countries, we should expect other countries to create similar problems for Muslims.

Having said that, I also know that with rising Islamophobia it's becoming increasingly more difficult to build mosques in western countries, such as the Netherlands and Germany.

[Amadeus85]

Yes, it is true to some extent. At least in my country of origin, Turkey, it is very hard to build churches (although there is improvement). I'm not saying this to please you. I'm saying this because it's true and because I believe it's wrong. If we don't allow churches, or other places of worship in our countries, we should expect other countries to create similar problems for Muslims.

Having said that, I also know that with rising Islamophobia it's becoming increasingly more difficult to build mosques in western countries, such as the Netherlands and Germany.

Same as me breh.

[Amadeus85]

Salam Gossamer,

Although I hate western media depicting all Muslims as barbarians, I have to admit that bad things do happen to Christains and other minorities in Muslim countries. In my country, Turkey, they have killed priests and slit the throats of innocent Christians. Bigotry and ignorance is a worldwide problem, it must be exposed and opposed wherever it occurs. Personally, I'm not going to remain silent just because there is bias and bigotry in the western world towards Muslims..

Im afraid that Skye wont trust it, until she sees it on her eyes. Although that I have respect for her, I guess that sometimes that wise and inteligent woman doesnt want to see something that contradicts her opinions. Many times I have admitted the bad things hapenning at "my playground".

[The_Prince]

Yes, it is true to some extent. At least in my country of origin, Turkey, it is very hard to build churches (although there is improvement). I'm not saying this to please you. I'm saying this because it's true and because I believe it's wrong. If we don't allow churches, or other places of worship in our countries, we should expect other countries to create similar problems for Muslims.

Having said that, I also know that with rising Islamophobia it's becoming increasingly more difficult to build mosques in western countries, such as the Netherlands and Germany.

yes but PERHAPS the turks are making it hard to build churches because many europeans want to keep turkey out of the EU because their christians and Muslims cant come in as they have said, so perhaps that has ticked the turks off and has led them to biasness against christians.

i for one would support turkeys tough stance on churches, Muslims have to go through hell to build a Mosque in europe so we shouldnt go soft but give them the same medicine.

[OurIslamic]

Thanks for the post.

[Amadeus85]

i for one would support turkeys tough stance on churches, Muslims have to go through hell to build a Mosque in europe so we shouldnt go soft but give them the same medicine.

"I for one would support France' tough stance on mosques, christians have to go through hell to build a Church in muslim world, so we shouldn't go soft, but give them the same medicine."

These words could be said by some EDL or BNP member, and You would call him a racist, You hypocrite.

Tough stance on building mosques in Europe?

There is no official estimate of the number of mosques in Britain, but unofficial estimates put their numbers at 1,600.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1162385841442

1 600 mosques in UK alone, and muslims live there in bigger numbers since 30 years.

[GuestFellow]

yes but PERHAPS the turks are making it hard to build churches because many europeans want to keep turkey out of the EU because their christians and Muslims cant come in as they have said, so perhaps that has ticked the turks off and has led them to biasness against christians.

i for one would support turkeys tough stance on churches, Muslims have to go through hell to build a Mosque in europe so we shouldnt go soft but give them the same medicine.

:sl:

Actually in the UK despite it's a Christian country, we still have quite a lot of mosques.

Christians should be allowed to build a Church in Turkey if they wish. They should be allowed to practice their faith. Christians and Muslim do share similarities as well.

We should not punish the Christians in Turkey because European countries have a negative attitude towards Muslim. This simply creates more problems.

[Argamemnon]

Im afraid that Skye wont trust it, until she sees it on her eyes. Although that I have respect for her, I guess that sometimes that wise and inteligent woman doesnt want to see something that contradicts her opinions. Many times I have admitted the bad things hapenning at "my playground".

She is probably sick and tired of the one-sided accusations and attacks. Who in the West cares about the hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi victims for example. Or the Palestinians who are treated like animals? All I'm saying is; we must oppose and fight evil everywhere. Crime against innocent people is prevalent throughout the world. In the West, it's usually institutional or state terror (invasions and massacres).

[GuestFellow]

She is probably sick and tired of the one-sided accusations and attacks. Who in the West cares about the hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi victims for example. Or the Palestinians who are treated like animals? All I'm saying is; we must oppose and fight evil everywhere. Crime against innocent people is prevalent throughout the world. In the West, it's usually institutional or state terror (invasions and massacres).

:sl:

Many Human Rights groups and many non-Muslims do care about the thousands of innocent Iraqi victims. I pretty sure there was a lot of protest to put pressure on the government not to go war with Iraq.

As the years go by there has been less and less support for Israel. Again many Human Right groups launched reports against the Israeli government for using disproportionate force against Palestinians civilians.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f729KqURQc4

There are many people who protest against the Zionist regime...we just don't hear of them.

[جوري]

Im afraid that Skye wont trust it, until she sees it on her eyes. Although that I have respect for her, I guess that sometimes that wise and inteligent woman doesnt want to see something that contradicts her opinions. Many times I have admitted the bad things hapenning at "my playground".

Rather if you read carefully my post you'll see that I have written:

I have lived in all the places you mention with the exception of a couple, and I know by eye witness the reality of things are very incongruous with what your media will have you believe

opinions aren't facts, as I have so written. I don't know what inciting events have lead the Turks to turn against its Christian minorities.. Turkey has had a less than stellar history even toward Muslims. Whatever the case I'd still refrain from writing about countries of which you have little knowledge..

all the best

[Argamemnon]

:sl:

Many Human Rights groups and many non-Muslims do care about the thousands of innocent Iraqi victims. I pretty sure there was a lot of protest to put pressure on the government not to go war with Iraq.

As the years go by there has been less and less support for Israel. Again many Human Right groups launched reports against the Israeli government for using disproportionate force against Palestinians civilians.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f729KqURQc4

There are many people who protest against the Zionist regime...we just don't hear of them.

Salam

I know there are good and bad people everywhere. We must oppose the wrongdoers wherever they are. That's all I'm saying!

Turkey has had a less than stellar history even toward Muslims. Whatever the case I'd still refrain from writing about countries of which you have little knowledge..

all the best

Salam,

Yes, we can't even treat our own people right. I can't imagine what would happen if 10 million Christians lived in Turkey, I'm so proud of Egypt. I've heard Coptic Christians are like Muslims and very conservative.

[GuestFellow]

Salam

I know there are good and bad people everywhere. We must oppose the wrongdoers wherever they are. That's all I'm saying!

:wa:

Fair enough.