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Beardo
10-27-2009, 07:32 PM
You know, it's an interesting debate question...

What's your opinion on illegal downloading? A few weeks ago someone asked this on the Radio, to which both me and brother Malaz were stumbling upon..

Consider this as well. Wouldn't YouTube be considered illegal too, then? So many movies, episodes, CNN clips, and what have you... Being uploaded and watched by MILLIONS illegally.

Interesting topic, I thought. :P
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GuestFellow
10-27-2009, 07:34 PM
Idk....I download random stuff all the time. I don't even know what I'm downloading is illegal or not... :/

So I don't know.
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zakirs
10-27-2009, 07:46 PM
It depends actually ,

For good things : (educational software ,books etc)

If you can't afford it and if it is necessary.. i mean you can;t help it these days every company expects you to get familiar with 3-D software which cost something like 1500$ to buy :P. There you are helpless.

For bad things : (movies , songs etc )

Its immaterial to dicuss since its like discussing if killing a man with knife is better or with gun is better :P.


Generally speaking though we should try to follow the law where ever possible.( where ever it is completely avoidable). Since we need to be good citizens to be good muslims.


( note: I accept that i do some illegal dloading too )
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'Abd-al Latif
10-27-2009, 07:53 PM
Intellectual property rights

Q.What do the Muslim fuqaha’ say about intellectual property rights such as trade names, trademarks, copyright and patents?

A.Firstly:

Trade names, trademarks, copyright and patents are all rights which belong exclusively to their owners. In modern times they have come to have a considerable financial value. These rights are recognized according to sharee’ah, and they should not be violated.

Secondly:

It is permissible to buy or sell a trade name or a trademark, and to transfer any of them in return for monetary compensation, so long as there is no cheating or deception.

Thirdly:

Copyright and patents are protected by sharee’ah. Their owners have the right to buy or sell them and nobody has the right to violate these rights. And Allaah knows best.

Qaraar Majlis al-Fiqh al-Islami al-Khaamis, 1409 AH

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/21899
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'Abd-al Latif
10-27-2009, 07:55 PM
Copying programs, crack and serial

Q.I have a website that has programs on it. Alhamdulillah, I removed the cracks and serials of these programs. But I have a forum, and members of this forum put the cracks and serials of the programs on it. It is really tiring to keep following to delete them, I cannot do this. Will I be sinful if I leave this matter up to the members? Is it adequate to put a title saying “It is not permissible to put any cracks or serials on the forum, and he alone will be sinful who does this”?.

A.Praise be to Allaah.

The ruling on putting the cracks and serials on the web page is based on the ruling on copying the program itself. If it is permissible to copy the program then it is permissible to put its crack on the web page, and if it is forbidden to copy the program then it is forbidden to put its crack or serial on the web page.

We have discussed the ruling on copying programs in previous answers. There follows a summary of what we have said.

Firstly:

If the owners and inventors of the program have stated that it is copyrighted, and that is not permitted to make copies of it for personal or public use, then the basic principle is that this condition of theirs should be fulfilled, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The Muslims are bound by their conditions.” And he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever reaches a permissible thing (that is permissible to anyone) first is more entitled to it.” This is what was quoted as evidence by Shaykh Ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) in his fatwa with the Standing Committee. See Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah (13/188).

This is supported by the fact that copyright of writings, inventions and products, and other tangible and intangible rights, are guaranteed and it is not permissible to transgress against them without the permission of the owners. That includes tapes, disks and books.

Undoubtedly those who produce tapes and disks have put time, effort and money into producing them, and there is nothing in sharee’ah to prevent them from taking the profit that results from this work. The one who transgresses against their rights is wronging them and consuming their wealth unlawfully.

Moreover, if it were permitted to transgress against these rights, these companies would stop producing and inventing things because it would bring them no profit, and they may end up being unable to pay their employees. Undoubtedly if this work were to cease, people would be deprived of a lot of good, so it is appropriate that the scholars have issued fatwas stating that it is haraam to transgress against these rights.

Secondly:

If there is no statement that it is not allowed to make personal copies, then it is permissible to make copies for personal use, but not for profit.

Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen said concerning this issue:

This should be dealt with according to custom. If a person wants to make a copy for himself and the one who initially wrote it did not state that it is not allowed to make personal or public copies, then I hope that there is nothing wrong with that. But if the person who initially wrote it stated that it is not permitted to make personal or public copies, then it is not permissible at all. End quote.

Thirdly:

What we have mentioned in either case is the general ruling with regard to principles. But there may be some cases in which it is permissible to make copies without permission of the owners. That applies in two cases:

1 – If it is not available in the marketplace and one needs it, and the copies are for personal use or charitable distribution, and they not going to be sold or profited from.

2 – If there is a great need for it and the owners are demanding more for it than it is worth, and they have already made enough money to cover their costs with a reasonable amount of profit, and that is something to be decided by experts. In that case it is permissible to copy it for personal use, not with the aim of selling it.

3 – If it belongs to someone who is not protected by sharee’ah, then there is nothing wrong with copying it. The one who is protected by sharee’ah is the Muslim or dhimmi (non-Muslim living under Muslim rule) or musta’min (the one who been granted safety by the Muslim ruler), in contrast to the harbi (non-Muslim who is in a state of war against Islam).

Based on that, if copying something is forbidden, then you must prevent the members of the forum from posting links to download it or download its cracks and serials; it is not sufficient to post a notice saying that it is not allowed, because it is an evil that you are able to remove or change.

And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/102352
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Beardo
10-27-2009, 08:01 PM
Yeah ermm... I've seen the Fatwas. I just wanted to hear what people have to say about it.

Because I asked my friend, and he said "Well ermm... It's so common.. Everyone does it... It doesn't seem like it's illegal..."

:hmm:
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zakirs
10-27-2009, 08:19 PM
Originally Posted by Rashad
Yeah ermm... I've seen the Fatwas. I just wanted to hear what people have to say about it.

Because I asked my friend, and he said "Well ermm... It's so common.. Everyone does it... It doesn't seem like it's illegal..."

:hmm:
Lol it is illegal .. we should respect the rights and also consider piracy as stealing :)
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cat eyes
10-27-2009, 08:23 PM
Originally Posted by Rashad
You know, it's an interesting debate question...

What's your opinion on illegal downloading? A few weeks ago someone asked this on the Radio, to which both me and brother Malaz were stumbling upon..

Consider this as well. Wouldn't YouTube be considered illegal too, then? So many movies, episodes, CNN clips, and what have you... Being uploaded and watched by MILLIONS illegally.

Interesting topic, I thought. :P
well thats true there is an awful lot of movies on youtubes thats dvd stores are slowly losing buisness because of it nobody is renting dvds now
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Beardo
10-27-2009, 08:30 PM
Originally Posted by cat eyes
well thats true there is an awful lot of movies on youtubes thats dvd stores are slowly losing buisness because of it nobody is renting dvds now
Why is everyone acting innocent and angelic here? :exhausted

We're all guilty of watching CNN clips on YouTube (such as the balloon boy) etc, and we all download Nasheeds over the internet. All of that is included.

If it's illegal, or if it is immoral, then why do you do it? :X
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Mujahideen92
10-27-2009, 08:36 PM
Not sure, i download stuff all the time...
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cat eyes
10-27-2009, 08:36 PM
haha ya i have watched the odd movie online:><: lol
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cat eyes
10-27-2009, 08:39 PM
Originally Posted by Rashad
Why is everyone acting innocent and angelic here? :exhausted

We're all guilty of watching CNN clips on YouTube (such as the balloon boy) etc, and we all download Nasheeds over the internet. All of that is included.

If it's illegal, or if it is immoral, then why do you do it? :X
i downloaded a load of stuff during ramadhan so it is totally and utterly haraam?:omg:
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zakirs
10-27-2009, 08:43 PM
lol i didn;t act angelic i did confess in my first post.But the fact is you have to accept that you are doing wrong. I personally do that because i cannot afford to buy a dvd since 20 $ is too much for me , thats like 10 days of my food bill.
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Beardo
10-28-2009, 03:09 AM
Originally Posted by zakirs
lol i didn;t act angelic i did confess in my first post.But the fact is you have to accept that you are doing wrong. I personally do that because i cannot afford to buy a dvd since 20 $ is too much for me , thats like 10 days of my food bill.
Read this:
http://diariesofahafiz.com/home/?p=284

Please do answer the question in a comment. It's funny how you mention this, considering I wrote the entry before you posted what you jus said.
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Ramadhan
10-28-2009, 06:05 AM
Unfortunately, while almost everything has been moved digitally, our current financial transaction system has not been adjusted for digital micropayments.
digital micropayments would enable digital products to be bought easily and cheaply, and until such system is widespread, illegal downloading will continue to flourish.
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zakirs
10-28-2009, 06:10 AM
Originally Posted by Rashad
Read this:
http://diariesofahafiz.com/home/?p=284

Please do answer the question in a comment. It's funny how you mention this, considering I wrote the entry before you posted what you jus said.
You just made me feel like an idiot :( .. True .. we need to learn to respect and be content with what we have.

People please use free software where ever you can rather than piracy.
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Beardo
10-29-2009, 12:50 AM
Originally Posted by zakirs
You just made me feel like an idiot :( .. True .. we need to learn to respect and be content with what we have.

People please use free software where ever you can rather than piracy.
Thre's always an alternative. Photoshop = Cooliris
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Eliphaz
10-29-2009, 02:06 AM
Okay, I've been guilty of downloading the random LOST episode, e-book and various other "torrentage" in my time. There, I confessed. I feel better now.

I think youtube however does quite a good job of censoring copywrighted material. News networks have their own "channel" through which they make money from advertising or some kind of wacky deal they have with youtube, so I don't think you should go on a guilt trip over watching balloon boy on youtube. :D

I feel that instead we should be talking about the real white elephant in the room here: torrents. I freely admit I used torrents up until recently - initially to download episodes of my favourite shows (astagfirullah), but then later on to download Islamic material such as Islamic e-books (Qur'an, hadith books etc).

It stands to reason that Qur'an should be freely downloadable, but I guess certain Islamic books are not for free distribution (including audio books) and should be purchased through the proper channels. I think we need to be very careful where we tread. For example, is it okay to dl a book on hadith, like Sahih Bukhari? Is there any copywright breach here?
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Woodrow
10-29-2009, 02:17 AM
do a google search for public domain Movies, soft ware and ebooks. You will be pleasantly surprised at how much free stuff is legally available or in some cases very low cost. Plenty of stuff can be obtained free legally without copyright violations it might be old, but it works.
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zakirs
10-29-2009, 04:05 AM
i dont use photoshop i use GIMP , its free and open source :).infact i use open source software wherever i can
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zakirs
10-29-2009, 04:07 AM

It stands to reason that Qur'an should be freely downloadable, but I guess certain Islamic books are not for free distribution (including audio books) and should be purchased through the proper channels. I think we need to be very careful where we tread. For example, is it okay to dl a book on hadith, like Sahih Bukhari? Is there any copywright breach here?
It depends .Generally the license under which he book is released is mentioned in first few pages.If it is mentioned as it is being sold for money them you cant dload it.If it is written its free to be distributed then surely you can
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Alim Apprentice
11-01-2009, 03:25 AM
Yeah, there are so many public domain material available that there isn't much of an excuse for downloading copyright material. If you can afford it, buy it. If you can't, find alternatives.. simple :)

In addition, there are now initiatives aimed for students where they can download licenced software for free, such as CAD software from Autodesk, and Windows and Office from Microsoft.

As mentioned by Omar, news networks have their own YT channels since they see that its a viable means of media distribution.
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Walkinfront
11-01-2009, 04:42 AM
:sl:

What If you never planned to buy the software anyway? I know some people who end up buying the new version of the software because they love the older version they downloaded. This way its sort of advertising, and companies can get potential customers that never had the intention of buying in the first place.
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Alim Apprentice
11-01-2009, 04:56 AM
Originally Posted by Walkinfront
:sl:

What If you never planned to buy the software anyway? I know some people who end up buying the new version of the software because they love the older version they downloaded. This way its sort of advertising, and companies can get potential customers that never had the intention of buying in the first place.
Its true that some people end up buying after "trying", but this is usually an exception rather than a rule if it came from the use of illegal downloads.

Usually companies would provide free trials that are either fully functional for a limited time period, or have some feature crippled but is able to use for a lifetime. That is more than enough to test the software whether they like it or not :)
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Woodrow
11-01-2009, 09:22 AM
Abandoned/public domain software is legal, free and works. That is stuff on which the copyright has expired and the developers went on to make newer version. But it often has the features most needed, just without the newer frills.

Try these sites:

http://www.legaline.com/freestuff.htm

http://www.vetusware.com/

http://www.squakenet.com/


http://www.publicdomainflicks.com/
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Far7an
11-01-2009, 09:29 AM
Originally Posted by Rashad
You know, it's an interesting debate question...

What's your opinion on illegal downloading? A few weeks ago someone asked this on the Radio, to which both me and brother Malaz were stumbling upon..

Consider this as well. Wouldn't YouTube be considered illegal too, then? So many movies, episodes, CNN clips, and what have you... Being uploaded and watched by MILLIONS illegally.

Interesting topic, I thought. :P
CNN and other companies have started uploading their own videos on youtube and they get a certain percentage from all the videos shown on there, not to mention publicity.
Reply

OurIslamic
11-20-2009, 02:46 AM
Originally Posted by zakirs
It depends actually ,

For good things : (educational software ,books etc)

If you can't afford it and if it is necessary.. i mean you can;t help it these days every company expects you to get familiar with 3-D software which cost something like 1500$ to buy :P. There you are helpless.

For bad things : (movies , songs etc )

Its immaterial to dicuss since its like discussing if killing a man with knife is better or with gun is better :P.


Generally speaking though we should try to follow the law where ever possible.( where ever it is completely avoidable). Since we need to be good citizens to be good muslims.


( note: I accept that i do some illegal dloading too )
Please, please, please DO NOT talk about something which you do not know about.

Regardless if it's for education or not, illegal downloading IS STEALING.

Did Allah (SWT) say we can steal books, even if they're educational, if we don't have the money? NO. It's Haram.

If you want a specific type of software, then there are many alternatives. I was talking to brother Rashad a while back. He was saying how photoshop costs a lot of money, and how he doesn't want to buy it. I told him of a cheaper and more efficient program I use, called Gimp.

If you need any help with finding alternative software, please ask me. Regardless of how long it takes, I will find it for you. I'd rather spend my time to find you what you need, than have you (or anyone else) commit sins by downloading programs illegally.
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OurIslamic
11-20-2009, 02:48 AM
Originally Posted by wyk449
I want the complete quran of the following gif pic. can you give me all of that? my email is wyk449@sohu.com. thank you !
I will be adding some beautiful Quran ebooks to my website soon. I will send you the link once it's been published.
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Beardo
03-25-2011, 07:46 PM
I thought we could continue this discussion.
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Little_Lion
03-25-2011, 08:12 PM
I was thinking about this recently myself . . . I came upon a site that had TONS of free Islamic books to download, and I was thrilled since I am on a limited budget and in an area where our library's books on Islam are all things like "101 Ways to Dis a Muslim". I started reading one of the books and out of curiosity looked up the author . . . and found several pages of websites where he was lamenting how much his book had been pirated. I felt like dirt, and now I don't know if I should use the site any more. On the one hand I am sure that the author would be thrilled that he spread his knowledge of Islam to a newbie like me, but on the other hand, it is his property and he deserves his due. Which is correct?

I'm not completely innocent by any means; I use a pirated copy of an old version of Photoshop because GIMP doesn't support tablet sensitivity very well on Windows. I learned my lesson the hard way about downloading games and movies when my old hard drive got fragged by a pirated version of Age of Empires II, so I don't do THAT any more!
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Sawdah
03-25-2011, 10:38 PM
Hmm, say you got a friend you brought a Nasheed CD and she/he let save it into your computer, would that be considered stealing on your part? Technically, the nasheed cd belongs to your friend now, right?

I'm asking this because maybe that's how we find so many lectures, books and nasheeds today. I don't think someone stole it from a islamic book store and went to go put it up on the net (I hope not), but maybe they've purchased it and wanted to share it with others, I don't know..
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Woodrow
03-26-2011, 01:06 AM
If you read on most copyrighted material it states specifically not to be copied in any form.

Keep in mind the Author or Artist of a Cd makes very little money on any sale, usually just a few cents and very many have to be sold for the author/artist to continue doing anymore. If you like the works of somebody, it is a good idea to do your share to encourage the artist/author to do more. People who illegally copy tend to discourage artists and authors from making their sales public. If it happens too often you will see a trend for private sales only and in limited quantities at very high prices.
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Little_Lion
03-26-2011, 01:48 AM
Let me ask this . . . there are a lot of "reputable" Islamic sites out there. How do we know which ones are posting things for distribution legally? Anyone can SAY that something is freeware or freely distributable . . . .
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Abz2000
11-01-2011, 02:54 PM
i dunno, this is a topic that has been nagging me also,
1. don't want them to make a loss for doing a good deed.
2. like to spread the guidance.

i myself have found that after watching copied documentaries on the net, i have liked them and gone on to buy them just to support the author.

there's a guy called alex jones in texas who spends hundreds of thousands making documentaries, he tells people to buy it if they can in order to support him, but even if they can't, at least spend a few cents on some blank dvd's to spread the word.
the man ends up getting more and more viewers and more and more fame, people even go on his site just to buy dvd's which he's put up free on youtube.

i believe we should support authors of good documentaries and nasheeds etc when we can, but i do often listen to copies.
i buy microsoft licenses rather than use cracks, simply because i believe that i wont be asked about how much gates was given.
government propaganda in hollywood movies is different, i consider them spoils of war.
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Uthman
11-01-2011, 05:43 PM
:salamext:

The following article may help: http://muslimmatters.org/2010/01/08/...pyright-issue/
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'Abd Al-Maajid
11-01-2011, 05:57 PM
I use pirated software I haven't bought a single license in my lifetime. I illegally download music, movies software and share them too. :hmm:
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Abz2000
11-02-2011, 02:39 AM
i used to use pirated software before too, i used to install the latest version of windows on every pc people brought to me - but then i sat down and thought.
how much do ms pay their software developers?
what would happen if everyone thought like me and just copied them?
what would i do if i came across a wonderful idea for a program and spent everything my family had on developing it - and then everyone just copied it after the first disc was sold?
what would Allah say if i stole something for the benefit of mankind from a rich company even though i wasn't starving?
would he ask me how rich they were?
it was hard at first but i slowly weaned myself off it - don't get me wrong - i still install copies if their genuine product key is worn off - or if their genuine version of office was lost with the crash - can't have them being robbed due to an unjust law now can we?
but i try to avoid wrongly copying beneficial things unless it can be somehow morally justified - like spreading truth. but even then i think we would do good to support the authors or we'll only get rubbish nasheeds and documentaries, and it would be great if authors of beneficial knowledge said something like - please consider supporting us by purchasing genuine copies of the disc, and donate at such and such - where are all those rich arabs? they could help.

some scholars say there's no such thing as copyright for knowledge - some say there totally is - i believe it's very complicated and that we need to look into the subject more and possibly say: some things shouldn't be copyrighted and some copyrights shouldn't be infringed.
and if it's something necessary for humanity - like a cancer or aids drug - the government should provide a just and reasonable reimbursement to buy it out on behalf of the public - if the public consent - and then make it free.
but that's all my musings - Allah knows best.

the first 45 seconds (the intro) of this documentary speaks volumes - please see:

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