Any Catholics here?

[Supreme]

Hi, I'm very interested in world religions. For Catholics (or for non Catholics, if you know the answer)

1) Why do you pray to Mary and the saints? Why not just directly to God?
2) Why do you revere the Pope? Jesus alone if the head of the Church, no man can make His laws for Him...
3) Would you consider Eastern Orthodox Christians your brothers as opposed to Protestants? Which do you believe is more in line with Christ's teachings, the Eastern Orthodox Church or Protestantism?

There's more questions, but I would appreciate an answer to these. Thank you.:statisfie

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

...
1) Why do you pray to Mary and the saints? Why not just directly to God?

Your questions remind me of my time in the Catholic forum . U should go and ask the Catholics directly there .

A warning : environment is very hot there ; some Catholics can be verrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyy rude but u will get your answers :statisfie

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Supreme;

1) Why do you pray to Mary and the saints? Why not just directly to God?

Rightly or wrongly we ask Mary and the Saints to intercede for us.

2) Why do you revere the Pope? Jesus alone if the head of the Church, no man can make His laws for Him...

I admired Pope John Paul and his great passion to meet up with people of other faith, and his attempt to build bridges.

3) Would you consider Eastern Orthodox Christians your brothers as opposed to Protestants? Which do you believe is more in line with Christ's teachings, the Eastern Orthodox Church or Protestantism?

I look on people of all faiths and no faith, as my brothers and sisters, the same God hears all our prayers. I feel only God can say who follows the teaching of Christ, sadly my opinion holds little value.

In the spirit of praying for greater interfaith friendship and understanding

Eric

[Humbler_359]

:sl:

2) Why do you revere the Pope? Jesus alone if the head of the Church, no man can make His laws for Him...

Well, I learned from Catholics friends that Pope is the example of Jesus (Peace be upon him), Pope is acting like Jesus and forgiveness through confession. So people will understand the example of Jesus as a Pope.

I think, Pope is a middle men as connection to people directed to God. That's why Protestant rejected it. Still Protestant came from Catholics traditions and history.

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[Supreme]

Greetings and peace be with you Supreme;


Rightly or wrongly we ask Mary and the Saints to intercede for us.



I admired Pope John Paul and his great passion to meet up with people of other faith, and his attempt to build bridges.



I look on people of all faiths and no faith, as my brothers and sisters, the same God hears all our prayers. I feel only God can say who follows the teaching of Christ, sadly my opinion holds little value.

In the spirit of praying for greater interfaith friendship and understanding

Eric

Peace Eric

Why do you pray to the saints and Mary? I know you don't worship them, but they aren't divine like Jesus, and they can't answer prayers.

Pope John Paul was a fantastic man, and a role model for all Christians, Catholic or non Catholic. I particularly like this quote from him:

'Freedom consists not in doing what we want, but in having the right to do what we ought'.

However, that's all the Pope is: a good Christian. He isn't a medium, and doesn't possess any outer worldly powers. He has no more right to say what goes than any other right minded Catholic.

Eastern Orthodox teaching and theology is very similar (indeed, almost identical) in places to Catholic teachings isn't it? Far more so than Protestantism anyway.

Thanks and God Bless

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Supreme;

Why do you pray to the saints and Mary? I know you don't worship them, but they aren't divine like Jesus, and they can't answer prayers.

I guess we all sound a bit strange to each other.

I think it is common for people of most faiths, to pray for friends and family who have died. In praying for them we seem to be interceding for them on their behalf. How many times do you see on this forum, that someone asks another person to pray for them.

In a similar kind of way, we pray to Mary and the Saints, asking them to intercede for us. Praying for each other brings us closer together.

However, that's all the Pope is: a good Christian. He isn't a medium, and doesn't possess any outer worldly powers. He has no more right to say what goes than any other right minded Catholic.

I have to agree with you, and the further up the ladder you appear to be in Christianity, the more of a servant you should be. The Pope might do far more good by washing the feet of his followers, rather than claim authority. I believe the perceived authority of the pope is one of the biggest obstacles in the way of Christian Unity.

Eastern Orthodox teaching and theology is very similar (indeed, almost identical) in places to Catholic teachings isn't it? Far more so than Protestantism anyway.

Jesus said, love one another as I have loved you, by this all men will know that you are my disciples. I feel the biggest obstacle to unity, is a lack of love for each other, rather than the differences in teaching and theology.

in the spirit of praying for a greater interfaith understanding and friendship

Eric

[Pygoscelis]

It is the eucharist that baffles me about Catholicism.

Catholics symbolically EAT their lord and saviour. :omg:

[Woodrow]

It is the eucharist that baffles me about Catholicism.

Catholics symbolically EAT their lord and saviour. :omg:

I'll answer this as a former Catholic. Although it has been a long time since I was a Catholic.

Catholics do not believe the eucharist is symbolic of the body and blood of Jesus(as) they believe it is the true body and blood of him, in the form of bread and wine.

This is one of the most noticeable differences between Catholics and Protestants.

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

..How many times do you see on this forum, that someone asks another person to pray for them.

hello Eric. We ( Muslim participants ) request here ( others who are alive :) ) to pray to God for us . We are not allowed to ask those who died already. We should pray for them but can't ask them to pray for us .

In a similar kind of way, we pray to Mary and the Saints, asking them to intercede for us.

But Jesus pbuh did not teach that . Did he ? Who invented this kind of prayer ? Why someone else's teaching is more important to you than the teaching of your Lord ?

Praying for each other brings us closer together.

I love to pray for others but I beleive prayers should be directly to God only. Anyway , I guess , this difference will remain between Muslims and Christians till the last day.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Muslim Woman;

I love to pray for others

That is wonderful.

but I beleive prayers should be directly to God only. Anyway , I guess , this difference will remain between Muslims and Christians till the last day

We have many differences, but we can still pray for each other, in the hope that we might all find salvation, despite all our differences.

In the spirit of praying for salvation for all people

Eric

[Supreme]

I'll answer this as a former Catholic. Although it has been a long time since I was a Catholic.

Catholics do not believe the eucharist is symbolic of the body and blood of Jesus(as) they believe it is the true body and blood of him, in the form of bread and wine.

This is one of the most noticeable differences between Catholics and Protestants.

I think Lutheran are Protestants who view the Eucharist the same as Catholics. But yes, most of us believe it's just symbolic.

hello Eric. We ( Muslim participants ) request here ( others who are alive ) to pray to God for us . We are not allowed to ask those who died already. We should pray for them but can't ask them to pray for us

That sounds far more logical.

But Jesus pbuh did not teach that . Did he ? Who invented this kind of prayer ? Why someone else's teaching is more important to you than the teaching of your Lord ?

That's exactly true. It is mostly Catholic tradition.

I've got another question. Eric, have you ever visited and been on a pilgrimage to the Vatican and St Peter's Basicila where St Paul is allegedly buried, and if so, is this an important part of Christianity for you?

God Bless.

[Grofica]

Salaam/Peace




Your questions remind me of my time in the Catholic forum . U should go and ask the Catholics directly there .

A warning : environment is very hot there ; some Catholics can be verrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyy rude but u will get your answers :statisfie

i dont know about that i think there are a lot of people here that could prob. answer. i think that this forum is a lot more accepting to conversational topics then some other forums... hopefull someone here could answer... those are questions that i have asked often also and i have never had the guts to ask my deeply relgious grandfather... (i think he would pass out) :-(

[ardianto]

Excuse me Eric, I just want to know, are you Catholic ?.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Supreme;

I am a Catholic, but I am also troubled by much of the seemingly dogmatic and fundamentalist ways of the church. Having said that, I know beyond a doubt, that the Catholic Church is the right place for me to be, and I could not change for another faith.

I've got another question. Eric, have you ever visited and been on a pilgrimage to the Vatican and St Peter's Basicila where St Paul is allegedly buried, and if so, is this an important part of Christianity for you?

I would not call going to the Vatican a pilgrimage, it is one place I could not in all conscience go to. I have just come back from Jerusalem, and the Sea of Galilee, this is where I believe the Pope should be living. I feel this troubled place is where the centre of Christianity should be.

I look on taking the bread and wine, as being the real body and blood of Christ, and I know this causes problems to many people.

in the spirit of praying for a greater interfaith understanding and friendship

Eric

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Muslim Woman;

Your questions remind me of my time in the Catholic forum . U should go and ask the Catholics directly there .

A warning : environment is very hot there ; some Catholics can be verrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyy rude but u will get your answers :statisfie

I have come close, to being banned from a Catholic forum too :D

In the spirit of praying for a greater interfaith friendship

Eric

[Woodrow]

Greetings and peace be with you Muslim Woman;


I have come close, to being banned from a Catholic forum too :D

In the spirit of praying for a greater interfaith friendship

Eric

Peace Eric, we are glad you chose to be our resident Catholic. I am surprised as to how few Catholics we have as members, although a number of us Muslims were former ones.

[OurIslamic]

You can try searching your questions on google and ask us if the site you found is reputable.

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

.... I have come close, to being banned from a Catholic forum too :D

haha , so u are not irritating the moderators enough ? :p

btw I do miss some good Catholics there . Hope they all are okay :statisfie

[Amadeus85]

[QUOTE=Supreme;1238102]Hi, I'm very interested in world religions. For Catholics (or for non Catholics, if you know the answer)

1) Why do you pray to Mary and the saints? Why not just directly to God?

Holy Mary and saints play special role in heaven, as they either were chosen by the Creator or died for faith. They are close to the Creator, so we believe that we can ask them for help in turning our prayers to the Creator.

2) Why do you revere the Pope? Jesus alone if the head of the Church, no man can make His laws for Him...

Pope is the head of the Church, he is the guarantee of oneness and unity of the Church, which prevents us catholics to divide in many denominations and branches. In matters of theology, during speaking in special occasions, for example - council, pope is infallible. Which doesnt mean that in other matters he is infallible, for example economy, poltics, literature etc. Pope is holy father, who enables the eternal and constant existence of Roman Catholic Church and the firm defender of unchangable orthodoxy.

3)

Would you consider Eastern Orthodox Christians your brothers as opposed to Protestants? Which do you believe is more in line with Christ's teachings, the Eastern Orthodox Church or Protestantism?

There is no one protestantism, as there are many branches of protestantism. There are reformed churches, evangelical-lutheran, baptist, anglican, methodist. Protestant differ in attitudes between themselves, for examples episcopalians in USA and Canada bless homosexuals and lesbian couples, they dont oppose abortion, while baptist and evangelicals are more conservative, closer to our, catholic teaching. On the matter of liturgy and theology of course orthodox christians are closer to us, since protestants in great majority rejected much of the tradition of the Church. We catholics see mistakes of protestantism (and orthodoxy) but it doesnt stop us from treating you as friends and brothers.

[Grace Seeker]

Salaam/Peace

Your questions remind me of my time in the Catholic forum . U should go and ask the Catholics directly there .

A warning : environment is very hot there ; some Catholics can be verrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyy rude but u will get your answers :statisfie

Greetings and peace be with you Muslim Woman;


I have come close, to being banned from a Catholic forum too :D

In the spirit of praying for a greater interfaith friendship

Eric

I'm probably close to getting banned from there myself right now.

I believe the perceived authority of the pope is one of the biggest obstacles in the way of Christian Unity.

And that pretty much describes why. Beyond the justification provided for this belief (one that I think falls well short of any proof) and the view that Catholicism is the whole of THE Church, I really don't have much problem with the rest of Catholic theology.

[Grace Seeker]

I don't know which mod was on the job to so quickly take down the last post, but good job!! That was quick and well done.


And for those of you who think I might be talking facitiously, I am not. There was something that temporarily appeared between these two posts of mine that you don't even want to know about. I wish I could give you a thousand reputation points for taking care of it so no one else had to see it.

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

I'm probably close to getting banned from there myself right now.

haha . What about glo ? Is she joining us ? :p

I really don't have much problem with the rest of Catholic theology.

I asked there if some acts of the Catholics are supported by Bible . Ans I got was like that it is supported by the .....I forgot the name of the holy book , approved by the Catholic Church.

Looks like some or many Catholics give more importance on those books than the Bible. Do non-Catholic Christians ( and some Catholics ) think it's the wrong attitude ?

[Grace Seeker]

Catholics are quick to point out (and correctly so) that the Bible (or NT at least) that we have was written and put together by the Church. So the Church pre-dates the Bible. They therefore think that the Church has as much or more authority than the Bible itself. (I'm simplifying the details, but correctly reporting the attitude I run into on that particular forum -- it isn't the same attitude I find among real live Catholics, not even the local priest.) And I think that that attitude is ... well, let's use the word "misplaced".

[Supreme]

Catholics use a different Bible to Protestants. Can Catholics tell me a bit about the extra books included in your Biblical canon, and what they say? It's very hard to find Catholic Bibles in a tradtionally Protestant country...

Also, may a Catholic answer my question on the previous page? Thanks and God Bless.

[Woodrow]

Catholics use a different Bible to Protestants. Can Catholics tell me a bit about the extra books included in your Biblical canon, and what they say? It's very hard to find Catholic Bibles in a tradtionally Protestant country...

Also, may a Catholic answer my question on the previous page? Thanks and God Bless.

I will just go by my memory as a former Catholic. The additional books are in the OT. Catholics will say they were not added (as they had always been in the Latin Vulgate) but rather they were removed when the KJV was written. The most obvious Protestants see are the 2 books of Maccabees.

What is strange, in the Catholic Bible, is in the NT the book of Revelations is included however, according to Catholics it is Apocalyptic and was/is not part of the actual ible.

[Pygoscelis]

I'll answer this as a former Catholic. Although it has been a long time since I was a Catholic.

Catholics do not believe the eucharist is symbolic of the body and blood of Jesus(as) they believe it is the true body and blood of him, in the form of bread and wine.

This is one of the most noticeable differences between Catholics and Protestants.

I was trying to be generous. Ok though, I stand corrected :)

Catholics DO eat their lord and savior. How this passes by converts to catholicism without their eyes bulging out I have no idea.

[Grace Seeker]

Catholics use a different Bible to Protestants. Can Catholics tell me a bit about the extra books included in your Biblical canon, and what they say? It's very hard to find Catholic Bibles in a tradtionally Protestant country...

This isn't a hard one even for a Protestant pastor to answer.

First, Catholic versions of the Bible are easily available on the internet: The Douay Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA Bible) is the KJV of Catholic Bibles, though I think The New Jerusalem Bible is more popular today, and the Catholic edition of The Good News Bible provides an easy to read paraphrase.

Second, the difference is that the Catholic Bible contains 73 books, 7 more than do protestant Bibles, and all contained in the Old Testament. These 7 books: Tobit, Judith, 1 Maccabees, 2 Maccabees, Wisdom, Sirach and Baruch are a part of what protestants know as the Apocrypha and are sometimes referred to as Deutero-Canonical books. However, for Catholics they are just simply a part of the Canon of scripture and have always been so.

Third, it isn't just Catholics who include them; with some minor variations, so does the Orthodox Church.

The reason they were originally included as part of the Catholic canon has to do with the relationship between the NT church and the OT. Though Christianity is a descendant of Judaism. Very early on, most of the new converts to Christianity were found in the Greek speaking world. They may have been religious Jews, but they were living in a Greek culture. Even the apostles, when we find them quoting passages from the Old Testament, we can see that they were quoting directly from Septuagint, the Greek text of the Old Testament, rather than translating into Greek themselves out of the Hebrew Tanakh. And so, it was this Greek edition that was the "Bible" of the NT Church. Over the course of time, the writings which would eventually be termed the New Testament also developed. And as they did the Church also utilized them, along with these writings from their Jewish roots, and lots of other things that were found to be helpful as well. None of this was in book form like we have it today. Some was on parchments, some on scrolls, some in a new invention called a codex (very similar to a modern book), but they were just collections stored together in a library. As time continued to progress it was mutually agreed that the Church needed to articulate which of these writings were to be set apart as useful as a rule for faith and practice (that is what the term canon means -- standard or rule), and they did so by simply noting that a consensus had been reached to use the present 27 books that are found in the NT and the 46 books that were part of the Greek edition of the OT that they had received from their formerly Jewish heritage. And that's the way it was, unquestioned for centuries, until the time of Luther.

By Luther's day the Bible was available mostly in Latin. Luther thought that the scriptures needed to be in the common language of his people, German. And so he began the task of translating them. As he did, he tried to get back to the original texts. Not an easy task in his with most of the oldest texts stored in the Vatican, a place he was most certainly not welcomed. But he had access to Greek texts of the NT and there were Jewish communities living in Germany from which he could get Hebrew texts of the OT. Also, as this would involve translating directly from Hebrew into German rather than translating out of something that was itself a translation, this seemed better to Luther. But an interesting had happened in the Jewish community between the time that the Church has established the canon of scripture in the 4th century and Luther's 16th century. The Jews themselves had never actually bothered to establish a canon for the Hebrew scriptures. They had the Torah, that was settled, but the rest of it, that which were called the prophets and the writings was unsettled. For centuries Jewish scholars had written reflections on the Torah and had produced a Midrash, Mishnah, and Talmud all as commentary on the Torah. And these commentaries were generally accepted on par with the other writings. But now the Jews saw how Christians were using parts of their texts to prove that Jesus was who Christians said he was, and quite plainly they didn't like it. So, when a movement finally arose within the Jewish community that they needed to be more clear as to what was scripture and what was other, they specified as the "official" Hebrew Bible only 39 books, leaving out 7 of those that had been part of the 46 books of the Greek Septuagint that had been accepted and used by the NT Church as prophetic with regard to Jesus. But of course, those 7 had been part of the history of the Catholic Church.

With the discord between the protestant reformers and the Catholic Church, Luther's list of books was picked up by other protestant groups and the rest, as they say, is history. So, you have to decide if you agree more with Luther, that since the Jews never actually considered those 7 books to be part of their Hebrew Bible there is no reason to include them in the Christian's Bible (the protestant position), or that you agree that since the NT Church accepted and used them as a part of their scriptures that they should continue to be used by the church of today as well (the Catholic position).

[Grace Seeker]

Catholics DO eat their lord and savior. How this passes by converts to catholicism without their eyes bulging out I have no idea.

Me neither. But I do know that for many this concept of his REAL PRESENCE (emphasis theirs) is one of the more attractive aspects of Catholicism.

[Supreme]

Thank you, Grace Seeker. I'm reading through Judith and the times of King Nebuchadnezzar now. It's completely alien to me, I have genuinely never read the Catholic scriptures before.

I asked this on the previous page Grace Seeker, but have you ever been on a pilgrimage to the Vatican and St Peter's Basilica where Paul is thought to be buried? Is it a spiritual experience? Did it make you a better Catholic?

I've always wanted to go to the beautiful church that is St Peter's, but I'd rather go as a worshipper than a visitor. Unfortunately, I've no plans to convert soon.

[Grace Seeker]

I asked this on the previous page Grace Seeker, but have you ever been on a pilgrimage to the Vatican and St Peter's Basilica where Paul is thought to be buried?

No.

Is it a spiritual experience?

I don't know. What is a spiritual experience for one often is not for another, and vice versa.

Did it make you a better Catholic?

I would first have to become Catholic for something to make me a "better Catholic", and I certainly don't see that happening any time in the forseeable future.

[Supreme]

No.


I don't know. What is a spiritual experience for one often is not for another, and vice versa.



I would first have to become Catholic for something to make me a "better Catholic", and I certainly don't see that happening any time in the forseeable future.

...you're not Catholic? My mistake!

[Grace Seeker]

Evidently you missed my lead sentence:

This isn't a hard one even for a Protestant pastor to answer.

[Woodrow]

Me neither. But I do know that for many this concept of his REAL PRESENCE (emphasis theirs) is one of the more attractive aspects of Catholicism.

When I was Catholic I found it to be one of the most inspiring things about Catholicism. i did not view it as a form of cannibalism but as the genuine acceptance of what it meant to have God in you. It was a physical acceptance of being with God.


But that was when I was Catholic and it was not the reason I turned away from Catholicism.

For my Muslim Bothers and Sister I did not put swt after God(swt) in the above because I do not believe that would have have been appropriate as I do not believe God(swt) sent down the message to do that.

[glo]

When I was Catholic I found it to be one of the most inspiring things about Catholicism. i did not view it as a form of cannibalism but as the genuine acceptance of what it meant to have God in you. It was a physical acceptance of being with God.


But that was when I was Catholic and it was not the reason I turned away from Catholicism.

Woodrow, as a Muslim, do you no longer have sense of 'God's presence within you' or of 'being with God'?
If no, why not?
If yes, how does it feel different now?

[Woodrow]

Woodrow, as a Muslim, do you no longer have sense of 'God's presence within you' or of 'being with God'?
If no, why not?
If yes, how does it feel different now?

Actually I feel closer to God(swt) as a Muslim then I ever did as a Christian. The difference now is I see that I am now believing as I am supposed to not based upon what I was taught to believe. I have more of a sense of personal responsibility in my worship.

[glo]

Actually I feel closer to God(swt) as a Muslim then I ever did as a Christian. The difference now is I see that I am now believing as I am supposed to not based upon what I was taught to believe. I have more of a sense of personal responsibility in my worship.

Thank you for your clarification, Woodrow.

Somehow I read your last post to mean that your problem with Catholicism was the very sense of 'being with God'.
From posts of yours I have read previously I couldn't imagine that you would have a problem with the concept of being close to God ...
I realise now that I misunderstood.
(Edit: Just re-read this sentence of your's, which clarifies further: "But that was when I was Catholic and it was not the reason I turned away from Catholicism.")

To take this a little further, how would you feel about the concept of 'being one with God' or 'God dwelling within you'.
Are those still compatible with your thinking as a Muslim?

[Woodrow]

Thank you for your clarification, Woodrow.

Somehow I read your last post to mean that your problem with Catholicism was the very sense of 'being with God'.
From posts of yours I have read previously I couldn't imagine that you would have a problem with the concept of being close to God ...
I realise now that I misunderstood.
(Edit: Just re-read this sentence of your's, which clarifies further: "But that was when I was Catholic and it was not the reason I turned away from Catholicism.")

To take this a little further, how would you feel about the concept of 'being one with God' or 'God dwelling within you'.
Are those still compatible with your thinking as a Muslim?

Both concepts are not compatable with Islam. But that does not alter how any of us may feel.

this may sound paradoxical, but I "feel" both of those as being as my "feeling" while knowing both are physical impossibilities.

[glo]

Both concepts are not compatable with Islam. But that does not alter how any of us may feel.

this may sound paradoxical, but I "feel" both of those as being as my "feeling" while knowing both are physical impossibilities.

It's interesting you say that.
I watched a history programme about Christianity, and I was interested to hear how Christians have grappled with the concept of God over the centuries, how much they have argued and disagreed ...

We often have similar debates here in this forum - and, of course, including the views of Muslims and Christians we add to the amount of different views and concepts.

I sometimes wonder though, whether most of these debates are simply about the language and terminology we use and the theological concepts within we interpret our experiences.

When I listen to how many of us (Muslims or non-Muslims) experience God, feel his presence, relate to him etc, the experiences seem to be very similar.

God is in communion with us.
He works within us.
We can experience his presence.
We can connect with him.

I believe that Seeking a relationship with God is at the centre of our faiths.
I wonder just how important our theological differences, debates and disagreements are ...

[Woodrow]

I believe that Seeking a relationship with God is at the centre of our faiths.
I wonder just how important our theological differences, debates and disagreements are ...

Quite profound. Perhaps something we all need to think about.

[Supreme]

Evidently you missed my lead sentence:

However, I'm not a Protestant pastor, and I've had very little education on Catholicism.

[Grace Seeker]

However, I'm not a Protestant pastor, and I've had very little education on Catholicism.

I know/knew that. I am. So, I was saying that even though you've asked a question about Catholicism, that this isn't a hard question even for [me] a protestant pastor to answer. But I wanted you to realize that it wasn't a Catholic answering it if that makes a difference to you. Sorry that I didn't make myself clear -- apparently several times unclear.

[Amadeus85]

What catholics should think about some important things (from pope's encyclicals) :


Pius VII "Post Tam Diuturnitas" (1814)

"

The new source of pain, given to our heart, which we admit, brings us most burden and suffering, is 22nd article of (french) constitution. It does not only allow freedom of religion and conscience, but also promise support and protection to that freedoms, and to the ministers of so called cults. We dont have to write much words, to express how deadly wound has been done to Catholic religion in France with this article. By fact of establishing a freedom of all faiths without , the truth is mistaken with false, and saint bride of Christ, The Church,outside which there is no savlatio, is equaled with heretical sects and even with jewish unfaithfulness. Moreover, promising support and favourableness to the heretics' sects and its ministers, tolerates and aproves not only those persons, but also their mistakes. It is definitely tragic and always con**** worthy heresy, which St Augustin expressed these words " It says that all heretics are on right way and speak truth, which is such a enormous absurd, that I cant believe that any sect ever believe in this.

"



Gregory XVI "Mirari vos" (1832)


"

From this poisoned source of indifferentism, comes the false and absurd sentence, or rather a delirium, that the freedom of conscience should be guaranteed to everyone. This mistake belongs to one of the most infectious, and its road is prepared by the freedom of making opinions, absolute and without limits, which for the destruction of state and Church, everywhere is preached, and which some people dont dare to show as positive to a religion. "Which death is worse for a soul than a freedom of a mistake" said St Augustin. Indeed, people left without any limits,which bans them from leaving the roads of truth, to their nature inclined to evil, will put them into the abyss (...) This is the source of the lack of stability of minds,the source of depravity of youths, source of scorn for Church' laws, the most sacred laws and things, the source of biggest plague capable to destroy the states, because from experience we know that, from the oldest times, states known of power, rich and glory, by this one plague, the unlimited freedom of opinion, freedom of gatherings, and the need of novelty, were brought to fall

."


Pius IX "Quanta Cura" + "Syllabus (of errors)"

"Syllabus" contains of ideas, doctrines condemned by Church :

1)
- pantheism
- deism
- absolute rationalism
2)
- rationalism moderate
3)
- indiferentism
- Latitudinarism
4)
- socialism
- communism
- secret associations
- biblical associations
- liberal- clerical associations
5)
- the rights proper to Church
6)
- civil society and its relations with Church
7)
- mistakes about natural ethics and christian ethics
8)
- mistakes about christian marriage
9)
- mistakes about secular power of the bishop of Rome
10)
- modern liberalism.


Read the whole text, something necessary to a christian living in nowadays world and wanted to find out the crisis of christianity and our world.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P9SYLL.HTM


Leon XIII "Immortale Dei" (1885) (about christian state)


http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/le...le-dei_en.html


Pius X "Pascendi Dominici Gregis" (1907) (about christian modernism heresy).

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pi...gregis_en.html


Pius XI

"Quas primas" 1925 ("Pax Christi in Regno Christi")

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pi...primas_en.html

"Mortalium Animos" (1928) (about true and false ecumenism)

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pi...animos_en.html

[Supreme]

Ah, a genuine Catholic!

Have you ever been on a pilgrimage to the Vatican and St Peter's Basilica, the largest church in the world? Or any trips to the countless Catholic churches in the Holy Land?

[Amadeus85]

Ah, a genuine Catholic!

Have you ever been on a pilgrimage to the Vatican and St Peter's Basilica, the largest church in the world? Or any trips to the countless Catholic churches in the Holy Land?

Unfortunately not, but I'm hoping to travel to Vatican one day. I saw churches in Austria, Lithuania, Slovakia and (orthodox) in Greece.

[Supreme]

Unfortunately not, but I'm hoping to travel to Vatican one day. I saw churches in Austria, Lithuania, Slovakia and (orthodox) in Greece.

I'd love to too. Also, Greek Orthodox churches pretty much beat any architecture of any religion ever. You just see them on hilltops with Meditteranean plants around them and the ocean behind them. Wonderful.

[Amadeus85]

Jan Mosdorf 1938

"We are catholics not only because Poland is catholic, because even if it was muslim country, the truth wouldnt stopped being truth, only harder and more painful would be for us, Poles, acces to it. We are catholics not only because the catholic doctrine solves difficulties better, and the discipline solves conflicts better, also not only because we are impressed by hierarchical organization of the Church, victorious over centuries, also not only because the Church saved and passed us everything what in ancient civilization was healthy and not degraded, but because we believe that it is church established by God".

[mediadave]

Unfortunately not, but I'm hoping to travel to Vatican one day. I saw churches in Austria, Lithuania, Slovakia and (orthodox) in Greece.

Have you ever been to London, or seen Westminster Cathedral in London? (Mother church of the Catholic church in Britain) Its a fantastic, grand, Byzantine revival church. Inside its still incomplete, but the chapels at the sides show how gorgeous it will be when it is finished (whenever that will be). Certainly worth seeing.

[o_ahmad]

Peace Eric
Why do you pray to the saints and Mary? I know you don't worship them, but they aren't divine like Jesus, and they can't answer prayers.

The Bible makes it clear in Romans 1:25 that the worship of creation is wrong and a "lie," which means worshiping Mary is against Bible. Also, since Jesus was creation like his mother, so you also cannot worship Jesus since it goes against Romans 1:25. Jesus also wasn't divine, since he didn't even want people to even call him "good," in Mark 10:18, Luke 18:19, leave aside being called divine.

[Woodrow]

Jan Mosdorf 1938

"We are catholics not only because Poland is catholic, because even if it was muslim country, the truth wouldnt stopped being truth, only harder and more painful would be for us, Poles, acces to it. We are catholics not only because the catholic doctrine solves difficulties better, and the discipline solves conflicts better, also not only because we are impressed by hierarchical organization of the Church, victorious over centuries, also not only because the Church saved and passed us everything what in ancient civilization was healthy and not degraded, but because we believe that it is church established by God".

And you forgot the Islamic heritage of Poland, before the Teutonic knights forced you into Catholocism. You have as much Lipkas heritage as us Lithuanians and some of us are returning to what was stolen from us during the Northern Crusades.

[Amadeus85]

Have you ever been to London, or seen Westminster Cathedral in London? (Mother church of the Catholic church in Britain) Its a fantastic, grand, Byzantine revival church. Inside its still incomplete, but the chapels at the sides show how gorgeous it will be when it is finished (whenever that will be). Certainly worth seeing.

Unfortunately I have never been to UK so far. Is Westminster Cathedral still being used, or is it just a museum nowadays?

[Amadeus85]

And you forgot the Islamic heritage of Poland, before the Teutonic knights forced you into Catholocism. You have as much Lipkas heritage as us Lithuanians and some of us are returning to what was stolen from us during the Northern Crusades.

Hi, I believe that we did discuss that a few years ago :p. The time goes fast.
We still have Tatars who are our citizens, but they came here and got citizenship during the times of king Jan III Sobieski so it was in the end of XVII century. Poland was baptised in year 966, the teutonic knights came to Poland in 1226 I suppose, invited by Kondrad Massovien. Teutonic knights did convert by force the citizens of Prussien, the Lithuanians got baptised from the hands of our king Władysław Jagiełło.

[Woodrow]

Hi, I believe that we did discuss that a few years ago :p. The time goes fast.
We still have Tatars who are our citizens, but they came here and got citizenship during the times of king Jan III Sobieski so it was in the end of XVII century. Poland was baptised in year 966, the teutonic knights came to Poland in 1226 I suppose, invited by Kondrad Massovien. Teutonic knights did convert by force the citizens of Prussien, the Lithuanians got baptised from the hands of our king Władysław Jagiełło.

Yes, time does go fast. We did discuss this a few years back. We do share a very interesting history. Hard to believe at one point the Duchy of Poland and Lithuania was the oldest and most powerful nation in Europe.

[Amadeus85]

Yes, time does go fast. We did discuss this a few years back. We do share a very interesting history. Hard to believe at one point the Duchy of Poland and Lithuania was the oldest and most powerful nation in Europe.

[Grace Seeker]

The Bible makes it clear in Romans 1:25 that the worship of creation is wrong and a "lie," which means worshiping Mary is against Bible. Also, since Jesus was creation like his mother, so you also cannot worship Jesus since it goes against Romans 1:25. Jesus also wasn't divine, since he didn't even want people to even call him "good," in Mark 10:18, Luke 18:19, leave aside being called divine.

Take it to another thread, please. We don't need the endless round of explaination here that the reasons Catholics (and all Christians) worship Jesus is because he is indeed God, followed then by Islamic objections as to why Jesus can't be God. We've been down that road repeatedly, and we'll no doubt do it again. But we don't need to do it in this thread.


As for the Catholic view toward Mary, many non-Catholics perceive that they worship her, but in reality they don't. Mary is very important in Catholic doctrine, but she isn't understood to be divine and she isn't ever worshipped -- this is so, regardless of how confusingly it may appear otherwise to those non-Catholics who observe Catholic practices.

Since their are some Catholics participating, I'll let them explain the important nuances that outside observers of the Catholic faith often miss in this regard, why they give her the attention that they do give, and what they do/ do NOT mean by it.

[Supreme]

Unfortunately I have never been to UK so far. Is Westminster Cathedral still being used, or is it just a museum nowadays?

It's wonderful. I posted pictures of it and the American equivalent of the Church of the Immaculate Conception in Washington and told people do decide which one was more beautiful. The Pope's visiting the UK this year too.

[Amadeus85]

The state can't serve two masters.

By father Robert Maeder.

The religious neutrality is a sin against religion. The neutrality appears under three ideas - neutrality towards God, neutrality towards Christ and neutrality towards Church.
The neutrality towards God because of atheists, materialists and pantheists, neutrality towards Christ because of jews and neutrality towards Church because of heretics.

The neutrality towards God - God is everlasting perfect Spirit, the Lord of Heaven and Earth, everything was created through Him. In Him lives and exists everything living. He is the most powerful, the most sacred. He is our father, He is love. What neutrality says about God? We don't talk about Him in our constitutions, courts, parliaments. We don't need Him, we can't accept His sovereignity over country and a nation. This is the speech of disdain, rebellion, ungratefullness against the Highest One. Neutrality towards God is crime against religion.

Neutrality towards Christ. Christ is the Lord of the nations and people. His name is - the King of kings. He because of love died for us all and His most sacred blood payd our sins. What neutrality speaks about Christ? We can't accept His sovereignity over parliaments and goverments. We will leave His temples in our countries, but we won't allow Him to reign upon us. This is the neutral speech. Every jew can be happy because of this. This is not only neutrality, this is meanness. The neutrality of baptized towards Christ's Kindgom is dishonourable betrayal.

Neurality towards Church. Church is not private people's community. It is the work of God, living Christ, mediator of grace and truth, mother and educator of human beings. What neutrality speaks about Church? It treats Church as a sect one in hundreds. It ignores Mother-Church as a queen, it resist Church's rights of severeignity over people and nations. To our Queen and Mother we owe obedience, love and reverence, not neutrality. Neutrality towards mother is disdain, indifference and rebellion. Neutrality towards Church is a sin against religion.

Religious neutrality is impossible. No one can serve two masters. Because either man will love one and hate the other, or man will join one and reject the other. The times of neutrality are temporary. After the times of neutrality, there will be times of serving just one master, Christ or satan. One of Him will be our king. After the times of liberal neutrality, there will be either time os russian-mexican persecutions, or the Kingdom of Christ.

We want to prepare that day, get hurry then and make Christ the king, first the King of our minds and King of our hearts, then King of our families, and finally the King of whole community.

Father Robert Maeder, "Christus Rex, the anti-laicism thoughts."

http://www.konserwatyzm.pl/publicyst.../Artykul/5100/

[Abdul Qadir]

Hi, I'm very interested in world religions. For Catholics (or for non Catholics, if you know the answer)

1) Why do you pray to Mary and the saints? Why not just directly to God?
2) Why do you revere the Pope? Jesus alone if the head of the Church, no man can make His laws for Him...
3) Would you consider Eastern Orthodox Christians your brothers as opposed to Protestants? Which do you believe is more in line with Christ's teachings, the Eastern Orthodox Church or Protestantism?

There's more questions, but I would appreciate an answer to these. Thank you.:statisfie

1) Why do you pray to Mary and the saints? Why not just directly to God?

Coz Guidance is with Allah, and the ones not guided pray to the likes of Jane, Joey, Mary, Tom Dick & Harry etc...

2) Why do you revere the Pope? (Lack of Noor(light) in the heart) Jesus alone if the head of the Church, no man can make His laws for Him (I thought Jesus was under the guidance of Allah? now what is Church?)



3) Would you consider Eastern Orthodox Christians your brothers as opposed to Protestants? (No) Which do you believe is more in line with Christ's teachings, the Eastern Orthodox Church or Protestantism? (whose Christ?)

This is an honest answer to all ur qns from a non-catholic...

[Amadeus85]

[QUOTE]

1) Why do you pray to Mary and the saints? Why not just directly to God?

We do not pray to them, but we revere them, venerate.

Why? Simply because they exist. Second - because this what teach us Roman Catholic Church, which is infallible in issues of theology and morality.

2) Why do you revere the Pope?

He is head of Church. Pope speaking ex cathedra, thanx to God's help, he is infallible about theology and morality issues.

3) Would you consider Eastern Orthodox Christians your brothers as opposed to Protestants? (No) Which do you believe is more in line with Christ's teachings, the Eastern Orthodox Church or Protestantism? (whose Christ?)

According to roman catholic teaching, the first ones are schismatics, second ones are heretics.

[Supreme]

But why the need for intemederies? You know in Catholic doctrine that God is all powerful. Why not just pray directly to God? He'll hear your prayers. I honestly don't think the saints have any powers outide their human shells.

[Froggy]

I used to be a Catholic. I'm no longer that religious, but I am an active member of the Church and I agree with pope on most major doctrinal (as far as I can for a semi-religious person) and moral issues. Women priests and gay rights are what separates me from the Church most.

[Amadeus85]

I used to be a Catholic. I'm no longer that religious, but I am an active member of the Church and I agree with pope on most major doctrinal (as far as I can for a semi-religious person) and moral issues. Women priests and gay rights are what separates me from the Church most.

What religion is judeo-christianism? I have never heard about it.

Catholic attitude towards homosexuals and women priesthood are unchangable.

[Saghas]

1) Why do you pray to Mary and the saints? Why not just directly to God?

We do not pray to Mary and the saints, we ask them to pray to God for us in the same way we would ask our neighbor of friend to pray for us. We consider them to be members of the Church in heaven and we can ask any member of the Church to pray for us. We pray directly to God as well.

2) Why do you revere the Pope? Jesus alone if the head of the Church, no man can make His laws for Him...

The Pope is the Vicar of Christ on earth, he is to be respected because of this.

3) Would you consider Eastern Orthodox Christians your brothers as opposed to Protestants? Which do you believe is more in line with Christ's teachings, the Eastern Orthodox Church or Protestantism?

Eastern Orthodox by far. They have valid ordinations and all the sacraments. Protestants just do whatever they please...

Pax Tecum

[Grace Seeker]

Protestants just do whatever they please...

hahah...So true! But at least one of the things most of us protestants are pleased to do is recognize and love Catholic Christians as our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.

[Amadeus85]

I'm reading good books now, written before the Second World War, books from my college library or bought by me from small internet bookstores. Books that no one gets to read in my library but me, I find them covered with dust and bring back from forgetness. I think that some of them are essential to understand nowadays world, also the Middle East. Unfortunately they are not translated into english, but when I have time I will translate some by myself here. Some will be very suprised, some would never get to such informationsm but it's essential to have a clear view of world's issues. Nowadays such books are forbidden I guess.

First is called - "The fall of Israel" by Henryk Rolicki (real name - Tadeusz Gluziński), book from 1932, which second edition was completely bought up by some jewish organization :).

[Amadeus85]

Catholic converts (also an answer to this thread http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...ert-islam.html)

"Before I became catholic I subsrcibed to a common misconception that people only converted from catholicism to something else. Everyone, from protestants to muslims seems to triumphanlty parade converts from catholicism to their faith. It turnes out that there have been and are many converts to catholic faith. The following is a non- exhaustive list.

St Paul, from judaism to apostle of gentiles.

Emperor Constantine, from pagan to catholic.

St. Augustine, from secularist to catholic saint.

St. Juan Diego, from actec religion to catholic saint.

Johann Christian Bach, the composer, from lutheran to catholic.

Peter Paul Rubens, artist, from calvinist to catholic.

St Elizabeth Ann Seton, from episcopalian to catholic saint.

John Henry Cardinal Newman, from anglican vicar to catholic cardinal.

Henry Edward Cardinal Manning, from anglican vicar to catholic cardinal.

Blessed Maria Elizabetta Hesselblad, from lutheran to catholic.

Buffalo Bill Cody, from secular protestant to catholic.

Gillber Keith Chesterton, author, from occultist to catholic apologist.

St. Teresa Benedicta of the cross, from judaism to atheism to catholic saint.

Gary Cooper, actor.

Walker Percy, author, from existentialist to catholic.

Sherman Minton, U.S Supreme Court Justice.

Salvador Dali, artist, from anarchist to communist to catholic.

Thomas Merton, from anglican to catholic monk.

Dorothy May, from secular social activist to catholic social activist.

Vincent Price, actor.

Aaron Jean Marie Cardinal Lustiger, from judaism to catholic archbishop of Paris.

Francis Cardinal Arinze, from nigerian traditional religion to catholic cardinal.

Sir Alec Guiness, actor, from anglicanism to catholicism.

Avery Cardinal Dulles, from presbytarian to agnostic to catholic cardinal.

Scott Hahn, from presbytarian minister to catholic author and theologian.

Fr. Richard John Neuhas, from lutheran minister to catholic theologian and priest.

Stephen K. Ray, from baptist to catholic apologist and author.

Kim Dae Jung, former South Korea president.

Deacon Alex Jones, from pentecostalism to catholic deacon and author.

Rosalind Moss, from judaism to evangelical protestantism to catholic apologist.

Marcus Grodi, former presbyterian minister.

Bob Hope, actor.

Lawrence Kudlow, economist, from judaism to catholic.

Robert Novak, journalist, from judaism to catholic.

U.S senator Sam Brownback, from evangelical protestant to catholic.

Tony Snow, former White House Press Secretary.

Anne Rice, author, from catholic to atheist to catholic.

Robert Bork, judge.

John B. Lipscomb, from anglican bishop to catholic.

Tony Blair, from anglican to catholic.

Bobby Jindal, governor, from hindu to catholic.

Jeb Bush, governor, from episcopalian to Catholic Knights of Columbus.

Jefrey Steenson, from anglican bishop to catholic.

Francis J. Beckwith, former president of Evangelical Theological Society.

Welcome home, brothers and sisters."

[Grace Seeker]

Hey, don't forget me. I'm a catholic Christian too and I believe in the one holy apostilc and catholic Church -- just with a small "c" on the adjective "catholic".

[Amadeus85]

Father Justin B. Pranajtis, "the christian in jewish Talmud".



Szulchan aruch, part Orach chajim § 55, art. 20:

Christians are equal to manure.


Szulchan aruch, part Jore dea § 198, art. 48, Hagah:


Jewish women should aware that when they live baths not to meet and touch unclean thing or a christian. Otherwise she should go and wash herself again, if she is God fearing.


Biur hetib, commentary to Szulchan aruchu,

Jewish woman should wash herself if she sees - dog, donkey, or akum (christian), camel, pig, horse of a lepper man.


Talmud, traktat Keritot 6b (str. 78):


Goim (non jews, christians) equal to animals.


Midrasz talpiot, karta 255d:

"They were created by God for the glory of Israel, they (akum - christians) are created only to serve to jews by night and day, and they never can have rest from this slave. Israel should have as servants not animals in their shapes, but animals in human shape (akum - christians)."


A jew has two rules in contacts with christians - to avoid them and to destroy them.

A jew should avoid christians because - christians dont deserve to be near jews, because christians are unclean, because they are idolators, because they are killers.


A jew is always good, no matter what sins he comitted. Only Israeli is a human being, the world belongs to him and everything should serve him, especially animals in human shapes (goim).



Talmud, traktat Gittin 62a

A jew can't say greetings to a christian.



Szulchan aruch, część Jore dea § 148, art. 10 :

A jew can't answer christian a greetings.



Szulchan aruch, część Choszen ha-miszpat § 34, art. 19:

Christian can't be a witness in court.

Goim and slaves cant be witnesses,



Zohar, part I, 25b:

A jew can't do anything good to a christian.

"Those who try to do good things to akum (christian) won't ressurect."

It's allowed to make good things to a christian only when it is also good for Israel, to hide the dislike toward chirstians.



Talmud, traktat Baba batra 54b:

Lifes and properties of goim (non jews, christians) belong to sons of Israel.



Szulchan aruch, część Choszen ha-miszpat § 266, art l:

A jew can't give back a found thing, if it belongs to a christian.



Talmud, traktat Baba kamma 113b:

"to cheat him (goi) is permitted.



Majmonides in Hilchot akum, part. X, § 1

"Have no mercy for them (goim), if someone sees akum (christian) dying or drowning in a river, not help him. "



Zohar, część I, 38b i 39a:

The murderers of christians earn highest place in heaven.



http://www.naszawitryna.pl/ksiazki_105.html

[Grace Seeker]

Amadeus85, the purpose of such a post is beyond my understanding. Nor do I see how it is connected to any other post in this thread.

[Amadeus85]

Amadeus85, the purpose of such a post is beyond my understanding. Nor do I see how it is connected to any other post in this thread.

1. The author of the book, father Pranaitis was catholic.

2. I wanted to show difference between religion of Old Testament, mozaism and tribal religion of jews - rabinic, talmudic judaism.

3. I wanted to show the reasons behind the struggle of talmudic judaism against Catholic Church through last 2000 years.

[Zafran]

1. The author of the book, father Pranaitis was catholic.

2. I wanted to show difference between religion of Old Testament, mozaism and tribal religion of jews - rabinic, talmudic judaism.

3. I wanted to show the reasons behind the struggle of talmudic judaism against Catholic Church through last 2000 years.

what does that have to with anything in this thread?

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

Zohar, part I, 25b:

A jew can't do anything good to a christian.


Zohar, część I, 38b i 39a:

The murderers of christians earn highest place in heaven.

Interesting , Still Christians love Jews and many Christians find it hard to telerate Muslims and thier belief . Why is that ? Because Catholics believe Jesus pbuh was a Jew ; so it's a must for all Cahtolics to love Jews whatever they believe about Catholics , their Lord and mother of God ?

[Amadeus85]

You know now what some pieces of Talmud say about goys (non belivers), so it would be good argument with the discussion with those who say that Quaran teaches violence and that mosques should be banned etc etc.
If we want be consequent we should aslo ban building synagogues and ban Talmud.

[Grace Seeker]

You know now what some pieces of Talmud say about goys (non belivers), so it would be good argument with the discussion with those who say that Quaran teaches violence and that mosques should be banned etc etc.
If we want be consequent we should aslo ban building synagogues and ban Talmud.

I think you mean "consistent", not "consequence".


Did I miss something? I haven't seen anyone on the forum seriously suggest banning anything. And I certainly haven't seen it in this thread.

[Steven John]

Hi, I'm very interested in world religions. For Catholics (or for non Catholics, if you know the answer)

AoA,
i am of the opinion that not all Catholics will hold the same reason or understanding of your questions, I am very very close to a Catholic community so will offer you from my understanding and experience. The Catholic Catechism (just google to the Vatican site) would give a better insight as to their dogma on your questions

1) Why do you pray to Mary and the saints? Why not just directly to God?

Christian religion has at times been subtle in its insertion into other cultures. IE turning pagan ill-ah festival into Easter. A woman who was not a Catholic but studied religion once told me the early Church used Mary (bbhn) as a way to reach pagans who were goddess worshippers. I have never found old writings to support this but it does seem plausible.
Catholic understanding is that they pray through saints not the simple understanding of the wording to. That is they want to reach Allah but do it through dead people who they have seen His attributes in.
A Catholic priest recently addressed a group where i live and said in truth people should pray to Allah but some dont feel they are worthy enough to do this directly.

2) Why do you revere the Pope? Jesus alone if the head of the Church, no man can make His laws for Him...

The pope is not a representation of Yeshua (pbwh) but of a church elder Peter (pbuh). They base their claim that Yeshua (pbwh) said he would build a religion on his loyalty. Succession they claim this is passed on. Catholics claim Yeshua (pbwh) is the head of religion and the people in it including the pope are his body. Maybe it means Yeshua (pbwh) is the master of the dean and guides his followers even in this day.

3) Would you consider Eastern Orthodox Christians your brothers as opposed to Protestants? Which do you believe is more in line with Christ's teachings, the Eastern Orthodox Church or Protestantism?

I am not super confident to answer this but will give it a go. Eastern and Latin Catholics biggest fall out is how the Holy spirit comes to man. Latin's say it comes from Allah and Yeshua (pbwh) Eastern's say from Allah. I think it is a "source" argument. (it is good to be mindful that The Holy spirit is not exactly the same understanding in Islam ie angel it is more the presence of Allahs guidance i think.) Latin rite Catholics i know do acknowledge Eastern as very much the same where i live (dominant Latin rite) .they allow Eastern's to partake as full members. Some dislike this but it seems most think it right.
I have heard a Catholic priest and Uniting minister refer to each other as "brother Priests". So things would be seen as changing. My answer to question 3 is very experience based and less on study.

There's more questions, but I would appreciate an answer to these. Thank you.:statisfie

I really hope this is of some help to you.


May Our Father bless and guide you and yours as youse submit unto Him

"I will be what I will be", you have free will so choose who you see

[freethinking]

Greetings and peace be with you Supreme;


I guess we all sound a bit strange to each other.

I think it is common for people of most faiths, to pray for friends and family who have died. In praying for them we seem to be interceding for them on their behalf. How many times do you see on this forum, that someone asks another person to pray for them.

In a similar kind of way, we pray to Mary and the Saints, asking them to intercede for us. Praying for each other brings us closer together.



I have to agree with you, and the further up the ladder you appear to be in Christianity, the more of a servant you should be. The Pope might do far more good by washing the feet of his followers, rather than claim authority. I believe the perceived authority of the pope is one of the biggest obstacles in the way of Christian Unity.



Jesus said, love one another as I have loved you, by this all men will know that you are my disciples. I feel the biggest obstacle to unity, is a lack of love for each other, rather than the differences in teaching and theology.

in the spirit of praying for a greater interfaith understanding and friendship

Eric

The Bible shows there is no need to pray for the dead

Jesus did say in LUKE 9: And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. 60Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

For those that have given up the ghost, it will be as if they are asleep for a minute and then wake in heaven
Praise be to God