The Masculine/Feminine discourse about God

[MuslimCONVERT]

Would like to get everyone's thoughts on this quote:

"Yet it is perhaps worth mentioning that the masculine tenor of God-talk is particularly problematic in English. In Hebrew, Arabic and French, however, grammatical gender gives theological discourse a sort of sexual counterpoint and dialectic, which provides a balance that is often lacking in English. Thus in Arabic Allah (the supreme name for God) is grammatically masculine, but the word for the Divine and inscrutable essence of God—al-Dhat—is feminine.” - Karen Armstrong, A History of God

[جوري]

The word Allah swt in spite of Karen's input is genderless.
Arabic has no neuter, and the use of the masculine is normal in Arabic for genderless nouns. No male preponderance is implied, any more than femininity is implied by the grammatically female gender of neuter plurals.

check out sure an'nazi3at for such examples where mountains for instance a 'masculine' object clearly has a feminine parsing!
and Allah swt knows best

:wa:

[OurIslamic]

I completely disagree. Most refer to God as he even in the west.

[جوري]

what are agreeing or disagreeing with exactly? You believe that God has a gender?
Also as a side note, do you speak Arabic?

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[Grace Seeker]

I appreciate what Armstrong has to say. Speaking for myself alone (and not all Christians), even though I generally do use masculine pronouns when speaking about God and certainly own the phrase "God the Father" as not being gender neutral. I still don't conceive of God as having any specific gender. Other than in some languages like Spanish in which all nouns, including tables and chairs, are said to have gender, I normally associate gender with biology. And since I understand God to not be a corporeal being, but a spiritual one, the actual identification of God with one gender or another seems to have more to do with the nature of human language, the metaphors we use to speak of things we can't really fully understand, and our far to common tendency too anthropomorphize everything, even God.

[جوري]

I appreciate what Armstrong has to say. Speaking for myself alone (and not all Christians), even though I generally do use masculine pronouns when speaking about God and certainly own the phrase "God the Father" as not being gender neutral. I still don't conceive of God as having any specific gender. Other than in some languages like Spanish in which all nouns, including tables and chairs, are said to have gender, I normally associate gender with biology. And since I understand God to not be a corporeal being, but a spiritual one, the actual identification of God with one gender or another seems to have more to do with the nature of human language, the metaphors we use to speak of things we can't really fully understand, and our far to common tendency to anthropomorphize everything, even God.

^^ by that I take it that God wasn't Jesus and that he wasn't born of a woman, both very human, very role specific and very anthropomorphic?

all the best

[Grace Seeker]

Well, the problem is that I'm not always internally consistent. I do conceived of Jesus as God and he certainly was very corporeal. But when I'm just using the term God standing all alone and not in some other context I don't automatically think in terms of the Trinity, but often just of what we Christians would mean by God the Father. This is not a problem with the nature of God, but of my own lack of being as careful as I should be in how I think and speak.

[جوري]

Well, the problem is that I'm not always internally consistent. I do conceived of Jesus as God and he certainly was very corporeal. But when I'm just using the term God standing all alone and not in some other context I don't automatically think in terms of the Trinity, but often just of what we Christians would mean by God the Father. This is not a problem with the nature of God, but of my own lack of being as careful as I should be in how I think and speak.

Ok.. thanks for that...

peace!

[MuslimCONVERT]

Well, the problem is that I'm not always internally consistent. I do conceived of Jesus as God and he certainly was very corporeal. But when I'm just using the term God standing all alone and not in some other context I don't automatically think in terms of the Trinity, but often just of what we Christians would mean by God the Father. This is not a problem with the nature of God, but of my own lack of being as careful as I should be in how I think and speak.

There is a Muslim perception of this as well... not that it is a blunder on your part, but rather what the Prophet Muhammad [saas] called fitrah... everyone's natural inclination to believe in Allah [swt]. According to the Qu'ranic perspective, the heart wants to know and remember Allah [swt]... Sometimes your actions and lips will worship Allah [swt] and testify to tawhid without your permission!

"Allah created you and your handiwork..." [Surah As-Saffat: 96]

". . . but verily man is rebellious. That he thinketh himself independent!" [Qur'an 96:6,7]

"So set your purpose for religion as a man upright (hanifan) by nature (fitrah) - the nature (fitrah) framed by God, in which He created mankind. There is no altering (the Laws of ) the creation of God." [Qur'an Chapter 30, Verse 30]



just a thought. :-)

[Grace Seeker]

Sometimes your actions and lips will worship Allah [swt] and testify to tawhid without your permission!

just a thought. :-)

hahahaha :D

[AlHoda]

I think only Allah creations have a gender.

[Asiyah3]

Allah, may He be Exalted and Above is not like his creations.

I haven't studied this matter or maybe have , but according to my memory and views He (subhaanahu wa ta'aalah) doesn't have a gender. He is Unique, One.

[MuslimCONVERT]

I don't think anyone, including Ms. Armstrong is saying that God has a gender... we are simply commenting on the masculine implications of the descriptions of God. Ms. Armstrong, I think, is saying that concepts regarding God in Hebrew and Arabic are both masculine AND feminine depending on the subject and attribute being described. I.E. in the original languages of the religious texts it is clear that God is a genderless entity.