Nation Unites to Remember Fallen

[Supreme]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8348225.stm

Thousands of people across the country have honoured the men and women killed in conflicts past and present with a two-minute silence.

The Queen laid a wreath at the Cenotaph in Whitehall in front of the prime minister, military leaders and Commonwealth representatives.

Veterans and civilians then marched along Whitehall.

British troops at Camp Bastion in Afghanistan also remembered the fallen on the day another soldier was killed.

The latest soldier to die was killed in a blast in Helmand, the Ministry of Defence said. He was the 94th British fatality in Afghanistan this year.

At the Cenotaph, the Queen laid the first wreath at the start of a 20-minute religious service.


Others followed, including Prince Harry, who laid a wreath at the Cenotaph for the first time. He was representing his father, the Prince of Wales, who is carrying out official duties in Canada.

Politicians, high commissioners from the Commonwealth and defence chiefs from all three armed forces also came forward to pay their tributes.

Afterwards 7,500 ex-service personnel and 1,600 civilians marched past the Cenotaph

Very poignant ceremony.

Lest we forget those who gave their today for our tomorrow. The Glorious dead indeed.

A touching passage a priest read out in the ceremony in Helmand:

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

(John 15:13)

Their sacrifices shall not be forgotten.

[amalteser]

Well Supreme, "Liberal Protestant" there is NO warfare in 'True Christianity'!!!
The world's affairs and wars and politics has Nothing to do with with YAHWEH!!!

All the denominations of so called 'christendom' including pentecostals, evangelicals and charasmatics are NOT 'True Christians'!!!




2 Timothy 3:1-5 (Amplified Bible)

2 Timothy 3
1BUT UNDERSTAND this, that in the last days will come (set in) perilous times of great stress and trouble [hard to deal with and hard to bear].
2For people will be lovers of self and [utterly] self-centered, lovers of money and aroused by an inordinate [greedy] desire for wealth, proud and arrogant and contemptuous boasters. They will be abusive (blasphemous, scoffing), disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy and profane.

3[They will be] without natural [human] affection (callous and inhuman), relentless (admitting of no truce or appeasement); [they will be] slanderers (false accusers, troublemakers), intemperate and loose in morals and conduct, uncontrolled and fierce, haters of good.

4[They will be] treacherous [betrayers], rash, [and] inflated with self-conceit. [They will be] lovers of sensual pleasures and vain amusements more than and rather than lovers of God.

5For [although] they hold a form of piety (true religion), they deny and reject and are strangers to the power of it [their conduct belies the genuineness of their profession]. Avoid [all] such people [turn away from them].

[mahi]

Rest in Peace to those on both sides that fought and died in the war.
It's good its not a remembrance for those muppets that send the soldiers into war.

[Supreme]

Well Supreme, "Liberal Protestant" there is NO warfare in 'True Christianity'!!!
The world's affairs and wars and politics has Nothing to do with with YAHWEH!!!

All the denominations of so called 'christendom' including pentecostals, evangelicals and charasmatics are NOT 'True Christians'!!!




2 Timothy 3:1-5 (Amplified Bible)

2 Timothy 3
1BUT UNDERSTAND this, that in the last days will come (set in) perilous times of great stress and trouble [hard to deal with and hard to bear].
2For people will be lovers of self and [utterly] self-centered, lovers of money and aroused by an inordinate [greedy] desire for wealth, proud and arrogant and contemptuous boasters. They will be abusive (blasphemous, scoffing), disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy and profane.

3[They will be] without natural [human] affection (callous and inhuman), relentless (admitting of no truce or appeasement); [they will be] slanderers (false accusers, troublemakers), intemperate and loose in morals and conduct, uncontrolled and fierce, haters of good.

4[They will be] treacherous [betrayers], rash, [and] inflated with self-conceit. [They will be] lovers of sensual pleasures and vain amusements more than and rather than lovers of God.

5For [although] they hold a form of piety (true religion), they deny and reject and are strangers to the power of it [their conduct belies the genuineness of their profession]. Avoid [all] such people [turn away from them].

Unrelated. Let's stick to the topic at hand. Of course there is no warfare in true Christianity, but we are missing the point. These men who died for us weren't just Christians, but Jews, Muslims, Hindus, atheists and agnostics.

Rest in Peace to those on both sides that fought and died in the war.
It's good its not a remembrance for those muppets that send the soldiers into war.

Indeed.

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[amalteser]

Unrelated. Let's stick to the topic at hand. Of course there is no warfare in true Christianity, but we are missing the point. These men who died for us weren't just Christians, but Jews, Muslims, Hindus, atheists and agnostics.



Indeed.

Well Supreme, "Liberal Protestant" you quoted the passage used by the priest, which is from from the New Testament!!!
And it has Nothing to with the dead of the world!!!

Read the whole chapter and see if you can see through your 'religious' blindness!!!

See if you spot the 'contradiction' in your statement!!!

Unrelated. Let's stick to the topic at hand. Of course there is no warfare in true Christianity, but we are missing the point. These men who died for us weren't just Christians, but Jews, Muslims, Hindus, atheists and agnostics.

NOT one of these soldiers, dead or alive are 'True Christians'!!!

A touching passage a priest read out in the ceremony in Helmand:


Quote:
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

(John 15:13)

Their sacrifices shall not be forgotten.

[Woodrow]

It is good to remember those killed in war. It should serve as a message of peace, when we realize how many have died and it should give us incentive that we never send a young man or woman to die needlessly or for an unjust cause.

Wars cost a country it's greatest asset, it's youth. Care should be taken that if we send a person to die, it should be for a just and needed reason.

[Insaanah]

We should appreciate those who died in the past for us. And I agree with Uncle Woodrow, that people should only be sent for a just and needed cause.

However each nation only tends to remember its own, or a specific group of people. E.g. there's holocaust memorial day, remembrance day, I guess 9/11 will become some annual ceremony. What really needs to happen is remembrance and prayers for ALL those who have died as a result of conflict/occupation/genocide, not just soldiers, but innocent civilians too. They don't get any ceremonies unfortunately. Soldiers do realise the risks of their job, but for civilians killed by outside forces in their own countries it's quite a different matter.

[glo]

Every year I catch myself wondering whether Remembrance Day is out-dated and old-fashioned ... and then I hear the stories, read the never-forgotten memories, see the old faces - and feel ashamed!

Who am I not to remember in complete gratitude those who risked and indeed gave their lives for us, the future generations?!

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years contemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

[Supreme]

Well Supreme, "Liberal Protestant" you quoted the passage used by the priest, which is from from the New Testament!!!
And it has Nothing to with the dead of the world!!!

Read the whole chapter and see if you can see through your 'religious' blindness!!!

See if you spot the 'contradiction' in your statement!!!




NOT one of these soldiers, dead or alive are 'True Christians'!!!

1) Why do you keep bringing up my user title?
2) Yes I did, I quoted a relevant touching passage read out by a chaplain in Afghanistan, because it reflects the sacrifice most troops will go to to protect their friends on the front line.
3) I'm not sure who you think you are (frankly, I hardly care), but you do not have any right to call people 'true Christians'.

Please stop trolling this thread about a sensitive issue and kindly leave.

[amalteser]

1) Why do you keep bringing up my user title?
2) Yes I did, I quoted a relevant touching passage read out by a chaplain in Afghanistan, because it reflects the sacrifice most troops will go to to protect their friends on the front line.
3) I'm not sure who you think you are (frankly, I hardly care), but you do not have any right to call people 'true Christians'.

Please stop trolling this thread about a sensitive issue and kindly leave.

What's wrong with using your user title???

And the New Testament declares what a 'True Christian' is!!!

You are just a 'religious' blind man, being led by the blind!!!

[glo]

Could we go back to the topic of Remembrance Day - and the remembering of people who have died in battle to ensure the safety and security of others, for generations to come?

It wasn't a religious topic in the first place - amalteser why do you feel the need to make it one?
People from all faiths and none express their gratitude on Remembrance Day.

Personally, I find all wars abhorrent! War should be avoided whenever possible, and should only ever be the very last resort!
But I speak as a German citizen, when I say that the Nazi regime needed to be fought and destroyed - and that I am grateful to all who fought for this cause and helped achieve it!

[Fishman]

Nation Unites to Remember Fallen

Britain isn't a nation-state. This silly idea is catching on more and more.

[Supreme]

Britain isn't a nation-state. This silly idea is catching on more and more.

It is a union, true. But most would still call it a nation.

Personally, I find all wars abhorrent! War should be avoided whenever possible, and should only ever be the very last resort!
But I speak as a German citizen, when I say that the Nazi regime needed to be fought and destroyed - and that I am grateful to all who fought for this cause and helped achieve it!

Sister, there are Brits more supportive of the Nazis than most Germans.

Germany is one of the few countries in the world where being a Nazi and having Nazi affiliated objects is a crime.

[amalteser]

Could we go back to the topic of Remembrance Day - and the remembering of people who have died in battle to ensure the safety and security of others, for generations to come?

It wasn't a religious topic in the first place - amalteser why do you feel the need to make it one?
People from all faiths and none express their gratitude on Remembrance Day.

Personally, I find all wars abhorrent! War should be avoided whenever possible, and should only ever be the very last resort!
But I speak as a German citizen, when I say that the Nazi regime needed to be fought and destroyed - and that I am grateful to all who fought for this cause and helped achieve it!

The incorrect use of New Testament scripture by a 'religious' christian priest, who is a blind leader of the blind, and creates a false impression about the True GOSPEL and the True JESUS, needs to be challenged!!!

[Fishman]

It is a union, true. But most would still call it a nation.

I don't see why people would call it a nation, really. It's an English-dominated Union, and consists of at least five different nations plus a large number of external ethnic minorities. Its a very different place to somewhere like the Czech Republic or Poland, which are nation-states created specifically for Czechs and Poles, respectively.

[bewildred]

Salam to all,

It's a day to remember indeed for the younger ones who haven't known cold war and the Berlin wall. However, one should learn from the mistakes of the past. That wall was destroyed but nowadays, there are many other segrational walls such as the one in Palestine. There's another 'wall' for a muslim nation that is still colonized. I never heard anyone in here talk about it. It's the Occidental Sahara that is still colonized by Morroco and its Muslim people is oppressed in the general indifference.

How many walls are we still ignoring??????


S.

[Fishman]

Salam to all,

It's a day to remember indeed for the younger ones who haven't known cold war and the Berlin wall. However, one should learn from the mistakes of the past. That wall was destroyed but nowadays, there are many other segrational walls such as the one in Palestine. There's another 'wall' for a muslim nation that is still colonized. I never heard anyone in here talk about it. It's the Occidental Sahara that is still colonized by Morroco and its Muslim people is oppressed in the general indifference.

How many walls are we still ignoring??????


S.

:sl:
Though rememberance day isn't really about the Cold War and the fall of the Berlin Wall, I agree that there are still loads of things going on in the world that deserve to be righted. Palestine is the big one which people talk about all the time, but what about Burma, or places in Africa?

[Supreme]

Indeed, Sudan comes to mind. I saw a documentary on south Sudan the other day. The people there desperately want independence, but the north is stirring things up through tribal conflicts.

[Supreme]

I don't see why people would call it a nation, really. It's an English-dominated Union, and consists of at least five different nations plus a large number of external ethnic minorities. Its a very different place to somewhere like the Czech Republic or Poland, which are nation-states created specifically for Czechs and Poles, respectively.

Seeing as England is the largest country in the union, in both size and population, it is hardly surprising that the UK is dominated by England.

Also, five nations? You're not one of those Cornish nationalists are you? There's only four.

[glo]

Germany is one of the few countries in the world where being a Nazi and having Nazi affiliated objects is a crime.

True, but only because Germany has learned from its mistakes ... the HARD way and at great cost and sacrifice of many! :cry:

[Fishman]

Seeing as England is the largest country in the union, in both size and population, it is hardly surprising that the UK is dominated by England.

Also, five nations? You're not one of those Cornish nationalists are you? There's only four.

Nah, I'm not Cornish, I'm from Nottingham, or Shottingham, as it may be more appropriately called. But Cornwall is kind of a nation, they have a distinct, more celtic culture than the rest of England. Plus they are one of the Celtic Six Nations.

[OurIslamic]

It's good to know that there are some people who still have hearts :P

[glo]

I found this interesting poll today.
Seems the perception of the public with regards to Remembrance Day is changing:

As people across Britain gather on Remembrance Sunday (8 November 2009) to recall those lost in war, a remarkable opinion poll published today shows a strong public desire for an emphasis on peace in these ceremonies.

The poll, commissioned by the religion and society think-tank Ekklesia, and carried out by the professional polling organisation, ComRes, in the week leading up to Remembrance Sunday, also indicates that people believe the deaths of those who fought against Britain should be marked alongside the British dead.

[...]

In the new Ekklesia / ComRes poll, 93 per cent of respondents say they believe that, contrary to many existing remembrance traditions, civilians who died in war should also be remembered.

And 95 per cent of people surveyed say they think the main message of Remembrance Sunday should be one of peace.

Meanwhile, 87 per cent of the population agree with the statement: "Remembrance Sunday should be about marking the dead on all sides of war, not just the British."

When asked about the current war in Afghanistan, 53 per cent say they feel that politicians' treatment of people in the Armed Forces there goes against the lessons of Remembrance Day.

Other polls indicate that in spite of the Government’s attempts to pump up Britain’s involvement in Afghanistan, a majority are now against its current military approach – which many strategists say is fundamentally flawed.

[...]

Ekklesia's co-director, Jonathan Bartley, explained: “When Archbishop Robert Runcie remembered the Argentinian dead in a service at St Paul's Cathedral after the Falklands conflict, he caused a political storm. Now appears that the overwhelming majority feel that deaths on all sides in war should be remembered.”

He added: “Misgivings about the way we remember have been expressed for many decades. Harry Patch, the 'last Tommy' who died this year, expressed his own reservations and laid wreaths of poppies on both German and British graves.”

Ekklesia says that the time has come for us to update our remembrance traditions and to acknowledge that we cheapen remembrance if we do not recognise the full tragedy of war for everyone, and make an active commitment to peace.

[...]

The survey results can be read in full here: http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/content/re...nceresults.pdf

Source

Any thoughts?

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Supreme, may people from all sides rest in peace, and find eternal salvation.

A touching passage a priest read out in the ceremony in Helmand:
Quote:
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
(John 15:13)

Their sacrifices shall not be forgotten.

I believe this only has meaning if you lay down your life for a just cause.

At some point we shall all have to stand before God, and I wonder how we can justify our stance in Iraq and Afghanistan to God?

In the end all people are created by the same God, and we only harm God’s children.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people

Eric

[Eric H]

Blessings and peace be with you glo;

Ekklesia's co-director, Jonathan Bartley, explained: “When Archbishop Robert Runcie remembered the Argentinian dead in a service at St Paul's Cathedral after the Falklands conflict, he caused a political storm. Now appears that the overwhelming majority feel that deaths on all sides in war should be remembered.”

Jesus commands us to pray for our enemies, and it makes little sense to pray for our enemy, then shoot them.

In the spirit of praying for justice for the poor and the oppressed.

Eric

[Woodrow]

It's the Occidental Sahara that is still colonized by Morroco and its Muslim people is oppressed in the general indifference.

How many walls are we still ignoring??????


S.

:sl:

I am a little confused by your last sentence. I found Morocco to be the most Islamic of the North African nations when I lived there. The City of Fez for instance is not called the "City of the Never Ending Masjid" without reason.

I will agree that there are some very unIslamic cities in Morocco such as Tanja (Tangiers) although technically that is an international port and not part of Morocco.

The dispute over control of Occidental Sahara (Spanish Sahara) has to do with who should control it. Technically I think it is still considered to be under Spanish rule, which is disputed by Both Morocco and Polisario/SADR, backed by Algeria There may be a three way division and dispute over who should control it. But I am quite certain that with out Algeria and Morocco, it would be under Full Spanish rule again.

[Woodrow]

Blessings and peace be with you glo;

Jesus commands us to pray for our enemies, and it makes little sense to pray for our enemy, then shoot them.

In the spirit of praying for justice for the poor and the oppressed.

Eric

Peace Eric

All the more reason we all need to remember all the dead from all wars. Sobering thought. Those memories should be an incentive for Peace

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Nation Unites to Remember Fallen

i shall trust that they will remember civilians they caused to "fall" as well?

Unrelated. Let's stick to the topic at hand. Of course there is no warfare in true Christianity, but we are missing the point.

best joke i've heard ;D how do you think Christianity spread to Africa as well as India and australia?

These men who died for us weren't just Christians, but Jews, Muslims, Hindus, atheists and agnostics.

which is why they fight against these very groups you mention. who are you kidding?

[Woodrow]

Nation Unites to Remember Fallen

i shall trust that they will remember civilians they caused to "fall" as well?

Unrelated. Let's stick to the topic at hand. Of course there is no warfare in true Christianity, but we are missing the point.

best joke i've heard ;D how do you think Christianity spread to Africa as well as India and australia?

These men who died for us weren't just Christians, but Jews, Muslims, Hindus, atheists and agnostics.

which is why they fight against these very groups you mention. who are you kidding?

In reference to this dialogue

These men who died for us weren't just Christians, but Jews, Muslims, Hindus, atheists and agnostics.

which is why they fight against these very groups you mention. who are you kidding?

I have to agree with Supreme. some of the British regiments that saw the heaviest casualties were Muslim.

Muslims recruited from what was to become Pakistan territory (namely Punjab, Azad Kashmir, North West Province, Baluchistan): 1187; Muslims recruited from what became India 192; Muslims belonging to modern day regions of Bangladesh: 5; Muslims belonging to unknown territories: 29.

The ratio of recruitment from India compared to those drawn from what was to become Pakistan is approximately 1: 6. This indicates that Britain relied on the Muslim population from a particular region even though a larger number of Muslims resided within the boundaries of modern day India.

Read the whole article here:

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/bmh/BMH...ntribution.htm

Muslims have an honored history in the British Military and the Muslim soldiers deserve to be recognized with respect and honor for their role in WW2 and prior.

[amalteser]

i shall trust that they will remember civilians they caused to "fall" as well?


best joke i've heard ;D how do you think Christianity spread to Africa as well as India and australia?


which is why they fight against these very groups you mention. who are you kidding?

There is NO warfare, politics, or putting the world to rights in 'True Christianity'
So your claim is false!!!
It was the spread of counterfeit christanity!!!

[Supreme]

i shall trust that they will remember civilians they caused to "fall" as well?


best joke i've heard ;D how do you think Christianity spread to Africa as well as India and australia?


which is why they fight against these very groups you mention. who are you kidding?

Wrong wrong and er wrong again. There's never been a Christian war in India or Australia. Laugh all you want, there is no true warfare in Christianity. Jesus abhorred any form of violence, and rightfully prophesised 'All who live by the sword shall die by the sword'.


Also, how are they fighting against Sikhs, Hindus and atheists? I'm kidding no one, least of all Woodrow:

have to agree with Supreme. some of the British regiments that saw the heaviest casualties were Muslim.

Very true.

Muslims have an honored history in the British Military and the Muslim soldiers deserve to be recognized with respect and honor for their role in WW2 and prior.

True again. Had it not been for Muslims fighters, Britain would never have defeated Germany in North Africa or repelled Japan in South Asia. The world owes its freedom to fighters of all faiths.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Wrong wrong and er wrong again. There's never been a Christian war in India or Australia. Laugh all you want, there is no true warfare in Christianity. Jesus abhorred any form of violence, and rightfully prophesised 'All who live by the sword shall die by the sword'.

1. how and why do you think churches were built on lands were the natives of the at country existed?!
2. if there is no true warfare in Christianity, how does a christian nation defend itself against an enemy?

[Supreme]

1. how and why do you think churches were built on lands were the natives of the at country existed?!
2. if there is no true warfare in Christianity, how does a christian nation defend itself against an enemy?

1. Christianity is a religion, not a race. Natives who had converted to Christianity would have welcomed such churches.
2. There is no such thing as a Christian nation (bar the Vatican). Many countries do have Christian majorities, but they have seperated church from state, and rightfully so. Therefore, seeing as there are no Christian countries, there would be no Christian warfare.

[amalteser]

1. how and why do you think churches were built on lands were the natives of the at country existed?!
2. if there is no true warfare in Christianity, how does a christian nation defend itself against an enemy?

As I said, this is counterfeit christianity!!!

There is, and never has been, nor ever will be any 'True Christian' nation or society!!!
'True Christianity' is about Salvation from sin and the coming Wrath of GOD!!!

There is no politics, warmongering, putting the world to rights in 'True Christianity'!!!

The so called denominational churches including pentecostals, evangelicals and charasmatics are 'counterfeit'!!!

Therefore, Popes, Archbishops of Canterbury, Catholic Arcbishops are false!!!

[Supreme]

As I said, this is counterfeit christianity!!!

There is, and never has been, nor ever will be any 'True Christian' nation or society!!!
'True Christianity' is about Salvation from sin and the coming Wrath of GOD!!!

There is no politics, warmongering, putting the world to rights in 'True Christianity'!!!

The so called denominational churches including pentecostals, evangelicals and charasmatics are 'counterfeit'!!!

Therefore, Popes, Archbishops of Canterbury, Catholic Arcbishops are false!!!

What non-counterfeit denomination are you then?

[amalteser]

What non-counterfeit denomination are you then?

I have no denomination!!!

[Supreme]

I have no denomination!!!

Non denominational Christians are a denomination in themselves. It is impossible to be Christian and not to have similar views with at least one church. I found it impossible to decide, so just decided to settle with the Protestant denomination(s).

[amalteser]

Non denominational Christians are a denomination in themselves. It is impossible to be Christian and not to have similar views with at least one church. I found it impossible to decide, so just decided to settle with the Protestant denomination(s).

Not if you are part of the real church, which is the Body of Christ, which are 'True Born Again' believers!!!


Ephesians 5:23
For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.


Colossians 1:18
And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.

1 Timothy 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

Colossians 3:15
Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

[Woodrow]

It seems Armistice day has come and gone. those who chose to remember the fallen have done so and those who have chosen not to have not done so.

Might as well close the thread before it becomes a thread arguing about which denomination a Christian should follow.

:threadclo: