/* */

PDA

View Full Version : ...very confused! Salafi's and Hadeeths!



AnonymousPoster
11-08-2009, 10:11 PM
:sl:
I apologize, as I am not sure where this thread should go. And also I don't want to cause the big 'madhab' debate. But recently I have been hearing that Salafi's only follow the hadeeths by Bukhari and Muslim? I have never heard or read this before. Please can some clarify this?
This was said in a debate about the benfits of following a madhab, that there is a hadeeth in Bukhari which allows mut'a marriages- which we now know has been abrogated (is that spelt right?). How ever Salafi's may just take this hadith and it would fit in wither desires and follow it stating that they are following the sunnah.
So as far as I have learnt is that yes we follow Qur'an and Sunnah yet we are aware that we are not scholars, and thats why we need the help scholars to teach the correct way to understand. Have I misunderstood?
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
Hamza Asadullah
11-08-2009, 11:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AnonymousGender
:sl:
I apologize, as I am not sure where this thread should go. And also I don't want to cause the big 'madhab' debate. But recently I have been hearing that Salafi's only follow the hadeeths by Bukhari and Muslim? I have never heard or read this before. Please can some clarify this?
This was said in a debate about the benfits of following a madhab, that there is a hadeeth in Bukhari which allows mut'a marriages- which we now know has been abrogated (is that spelt right?). How ever Salafi's may just take this hadith and it would fit in wither desires and follow it stating that they are following the sunnah.
So as far as I have learnt is that yes we follow Qur'an and Sunnah yet we are aware that we are not scholars, and thats why we need the help scholars to teach the correct way to understand. Have I misunderstood?
Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, Of course your correct. Read this short article, it is brilliant and will make things much clearer to you:

What is a Madhab? Why is it necessary to follow one?

The word madhhab is derived from an Arabic word meaning "to go" or "to take as a way", and refers to a mujtahid's choice in regard to a number of interpretive possibilities in deriving the rule of Allah from the primary texts of the Qur'an and hadith on a particular question.

In a larger sense, a madhhab represents the entire school of thought of a particular mujtahid Imam, such as Abu Hanifa, Malik, Shafi'i, or Ahmad--together with many first-rank scholars that came after each of these in their respective schools, who checked their evidences and refined and upgraded their work.

The mujtahid Imams were thus explainers, who operationalized the Qur'an and sunna in the specific shari'a rulings in our lives that are collectively known as fiqh or "jurisprudence". In relation to our din or "religion", this fiqh is only part of it, for the religious knowledge each of us possesses is of three types.

The first type is the general knowledge of tenets of Islamic belief in the oneness of Allah, in His angels, Books, messengers, the prophethood of Muhammad (Allah bless him and give him peace), and so on.

All of us may derive this knowledge directly from the Qur'an and hadith, as is also the case with a second type of knowledge, that of general Islamic ethical principles to do good, avoid evil, cooperate with others in good works, and so forth.

Every Muslim can take these general principles, which form the largest and most important part of his religion, from the Qur'an and hadith. The third type of knowledge is that of the specific understanding of particular divine commands and prohibitions that make up the shari'a.

Here, because of both the nature and the sheer number of the Qur'an and hadith texts involved, people differ in the scholarly capacity to understand and deduce rulings from them. But all of us have been commanded to live them in our lives, in obedience to Allah, and so Muslims are of two types, those who can do this by themselves, and they are the mujtahid Imams; and those who must do so by means of another, that is, by following a mujtahid Imam, in accordance with Allah's word in Surat al-Nahl,

" Ask those who recall, if you know not " (Qur'an 16:43), and in Surat al-Nisa, " If they had referred it to the Messenger and to those of authority among them, then those of them whose task it is to find it out would have known the matter " (Qur'an 4:83), in which the phrase those of them whose task it is to find it out, expresses the words "alladhina yastanbitunahu minhum", referring to those possessing the capacity to draw inferences directly from the evidence, which is called in Arabic istinbat.

These and other verses and hadiths oblige the believer who is not at the level of istinbat or directly deriving rulings from the Qur'an and hadith to ask and follow someone in such rulings who is at this level. It is not difficult to see why Allah has obliged us to ask experts, for if each of us were personally responsible for evaluating all the primary texts relating to each question, a lifetime of study would hardly be enough for it, and one would either have to give up earning a living or give up ones din, which is why Allah says in surat al-Tawba, in the context of jihad:

" Not all of the believers should go to fight. Of every section of them, why does not one part alone go forth, that the rest may gain knowledge of the religion and admonish their people when they return, that perhaps they may take warning " (Qur'an 9:122).

The slogans we hear today about "following the Qur'an and sunna instead of following the madhhabs" are wide of the mark, for everyone agrees that we must follow the Qur'an and the sunna of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace).

The point is that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) is no longer alive to personally teach us, and everything we have from him, whether the hadith or the Qur'an, has been conveyed to us through Islamic scholars.

So it is not a question of whether or not to take our din from scholars, but rather, from which scholars. And this is the reason we have madhhabs in Islam: because the excellence and superiority of the scholarship of the mujtahid Imams--together with the traditional scholars who followed in each of their schools and evaluated and upgraded their work after them--have met the test of scholarly investigation and won the confidence of thinking and practicing Muslims for all the centuries of Islamic greatness.

The reason why madhhabs exist, the benefit of them, past, present, and future, is that they furnish thousands of sound, knowledge-based answers to Muslims questions on how to obey Allah. Muslims have realized that to follow a madhhab means to follow a super scholar who not only had a comprehensive knowledge of the Qur'an and hadith texts relating to each issue he gave judgements on, but also lived in an age a millennium closer to the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) and his Companions, when taqwa or "godfearingness" was the norm--both of which conditions are in striking contrast to the scholarship available today.

While the call for a return to the Qur'an and sunna is an attractive slogan, in reality it is a great leap backward, a call to abandon centuries of detailed, case-by-case Islamic scholarship in finding and spelling out the commands of the Qur'an and sunna, a highly sophisticated, interdisciplinary effort by mujtahids, hadith specialists, Qur'anic exegetes, lexicographers, and other masters of the Islamic legal sciences.

To abandon the fruits of this research, the Islamic shari'a, for the following of contemporary sheikhs who, despite the claims, are not at the level of their predecessors, is a replacement of something tried and proven for something at best tentative.

The rhetoric of following the shari'a without following a particular madhhab is like a person going down to a car dealer to buy a car, but insisting it not be any known make--neither a Volkswagen nor Rolls-Royce nor Chevrolet--but rather "a car, pure and simple". Such a person does not really know what he wants; the cars on the lot do not come like that, but only in kinds.

The salesman may be forgiven a slight smile, and can only point out that sophisticated products come from sophisticated means of production, from factories with a division of labor among those who test, produce, and assemble the many parts of the finished product.

It is the nature of such collective human efforts to produce something far better than any of us alone could produce from scratch, even if given a forge and tools, and fifty years, or even a thousand. And so it is with the shari'a, which is more complex than any car because it deals with the universe of human actions and a wide interpretative range of sacred texts.

This is why discarding the monumental scholarship of the madhhabs in operationalizing the Qur'an and sunna in order to adopt the understanding of a contemporary sheikh is not just a mistaken opinion. It is scrapping a Mercedes for a go-cart.
Reply

AnonymousPoster
11-09-2009, 12:06 AM
:wa:
JazakAllah. I understand that, I mean even when you follow a madhab your following a scholar...whether your a safali, Hanafi, Hanbali... we all are relying on a scholar to teach us in a way.
Any thoughts to my first sentence on first post? Don't Salafi's look at all books of hadith bu take the one with strongest chain or narration, and fulfills the other criteria of becoming a good hadith?
Reply

Rafeeq
11-09-2009, 04:36 AM
All those scholars were prectising Islam and none of them wanted to generate a new way of life other than islam.

One this is common in all of them, that is, they requested if some one find any decesion made by them against basics of Islam, he should give their decesion up and follow what is correct. Hence, they did not close the door of investigation and seeking knowledge.

Hadith are not cherectorised on the basis of the book they are compiled in, but through their narrators. Hence, many Ahadith could be Dhaeef in any of those books.
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
Sampharo
11-09-2009, 04:43 AM
Salafi's follow all hadith and evidence, not specifically the ones from Bukhary and Muslim, however hadith and traditions get more authenticated all the time and new ones are found all the time, Al-Albani for example was a contemporary scholar who reviewed and reclassified many of the hadith. Salafi's immediately adopt any proven habit of the Salaf, the three generations of the prophet and the companions, and their two successive generations, because those were the ones that transfered the knowledge best from the prophet and were declared to be the best of the Islamic nation by the prophet in an authenticated hadith.

Madhab is a methodology of studying that scholars follow, not necessary for laymen to adopt and forsake other opinions. Madhab following can be good as it establishes continuity, but it can go overboard because it may generate favouratism and attachment, as many laypeople will tell you sometimes they ARE Maliki or Shafie. Adopting an opinion passed down in schools despite more contemporary scholars finding original evidence that what the prophet said and the companions did was something else is of course what simple common sense dictates not to do, and it is also the original statements of the Imams of those schools themselves: "Not to follow everything they said even when there is proof that truth lay with the different opinion". But madhabs are very widely used by Salafi scholars and many are Hanbali and Hanafi, where if things don't have textual clear proof from Quran and Sunnah, an analysis of the principals of fiqh and jurisprudence is necessary to reach a favoured opinion.

ANd God knows Best
Reply

AnonymousPoster
11-09-2009, 10:13 PM
:sl:
Can a marriage between some-one who has this opion of salafis work? Or should a person not marry some-one who has this belief that salafis only follow hadiths from Bukhari and Muslim? How should the children be bought up?
p.s I am the OP- I do apologize for going slightly off topic- but I started this thread with marriage in mind..so InshaAllah it's not too off topic?
:wa:
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
11-09-2009, 10:19 PM
threads like these remind me of what a great help madhabs are to us.

without madhabs, although it doesnt always happen, it is easy to fall into confusion and at times even chaos.


Sister i advise you to stick to a madhab, stick to Aqeedah at-tahawiyyah and die upon that.


As for your future husband, if his upon that then its very very good inshAllah

Assalamu Alaikum
Reply

AnonymousPoster
11-09-2009, 10:36 PM
:sl:
It is me who does not kind of associate myself to a madhab, whereas....it...seems to be of of strong Hanfi background, and with possible misconceptions of those who consider themselves as Salafi. I don't know...I agree madhabs are useful, as long as you are following it correctly...
imsad . If I were to consider myself as a Salafi- would it cause friction with a Hanafi man?
How do you find out if someone is following Islam? My Dad is of high religious standin in my society- wears a thobe, speaks about following islam, Qur'an and Sunnah importance of Madhabs..but then he does things like 'Shabe Meraj'..etc. But if someone were to not ask him that q' specifically they would think he was doing everything right...wouldnt they?
I am just sooooo confused, that I am not sure if Im making sense or babbling..
Reply

Ummu Sufyaan
11-09-2009, 10:49 PM
Wa alaykum us-Salaam
^sometimes people are just genuinely ignorant so i think the best thing to do is sit and explain to him your point of view and where you come from and you should research and/or ask him more about the issues you are having trouble understanding and see whether you're in the wrong or not :) so yh just talk and research as there could be genuine misunderstanding about the issues the both of you may have.
Reply

Muhammad
11-09-2009, 10:51 PM
:sl:

Perhaps you should try and discuss this issue with your spouse-to-be, or if that's not possible, get someone to do so on your behalf? And you can explain that being a Salafi simply means you are following the Qur'an and the Sunnah in the way that the salaf understood them. It's quite simple really, it's just that there are a lot of misconceptions being circulated about them. Do istikharah and seek the advice of someone you trust and has knowledge and wisdom Insha'Allaah.

P.S. You only have to open a book by a "salafi" scholar to find that they quote hadeeth from all the books of hadeeth (provided they are authentic), not just Al-Bukhari and Muslim.
Reply

Abdul Qadir
11-18-2009, 07:22 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muhammad
:sl:

Perhaps you should try and discuss this issue with your spouse-to-be, or if that's not possible, get someone to do so on your behalf? And you can explain that being a Salafi simply means you are following the Qur'an and the Sunnah in the way that the salaf understood them. It's quite simple really, it's just that there are a lot of misconceptions being circulated about them. Do istikharah and seek the advice of someone you trust and has knowledge and wisdom Insha'Allaah.

P.S. You only have to open a book by a "salafi" scholar to find that they quote hadeeth from all the books of hadeeth (provided they are authentic), not just Al-Bukhari and Muslim.
it seems our sister have not come to grasps with the salafi manhaj...salafi is not a group...its just a way of following the best hadith with the best chains...its pure from bid'ah and shirk...please dun oppose the manhaj..i suggest u learn more about the salaf with an open heart...May Allah guide us, love us and forgive us...
Reply

Sampharo
11-18-2009, 10:32 AM
^ I agree. Sister, you're taking this out of proportion. If a man doesn't know what Salafi manhaj is, that doesn't scar his faith nor doesn't deter you two from being together at all. He just needs to be educated by reading any sites or books that explain the manhaj of the Salaf Saleh, and it would be best if he also speaks to a sheikh on the Salaf who is also a Hanafi scholar so that he doesn't think about the advice being from someone of a different methodology school (although I am not liking this separation of religion).
Reply

Khaldun
11-18-2009, 11:30 AM
:sl:

No true salafi will ever tell you not to follow a math-hab, since all the four imaams are themselves from the salaf and we are obliged to follow them. Rather what almost all salafis call to is that people should not blindly follow any scholar. If Imaam Shaafi'ee, however great scholar he might be, made a ruling and made a mistake [since he only is a human after all] and lets say Imaam Ahmad bin Hanbal his student corrects this mistake, should we say no but Imaam Shaafi'ee said! Do you think you have more knowledge then Imaam Shaafi'ee brother!? But in truth that is not the issue.

Secondly, as has been mentioned salafiyyah should not be place alongside terms like hanbali or hanafi since this is a clear confusion. Imaam Aboo Haneefah aswell as the other Imaams where all from the salaf themselves, you cant get more salafi then that.

Lastly, if one studies the history of Islaam one will realise how bad the people misunderstood the math-habs and why they were established in the first place. People said a hanafi woman cannot marry a shaafi'ee man and vice versa, but some of these scholars gave fatwa saying it is indeed allowed for a man to marry such a woman since muslim men are allowed to marry christians and jews. Yaa SubhanAllah! They took their own brethren outside of Islaam. This even reached such levels that the holiest of masjids in Makkah had four mihraabs and each group would pray their salah individually.

This is how people misunderstood math-haabs throughout time.
Reply

Abdul Qadir
11-18-2009, 11:51 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Khaldun
:sl:

No true salafi will ever tell you not to follow a math-hab, since all the four imaams are themselves from the salaf and we are obliged to follow them. Rather what almost all salafis call to is that people should not blindly follow any scholar. If Imaam Shaafi'ee, however great scholar he might be, made a ruling and made a mistake [since he only is a human after all] and lets say Imaam Ahmad bin Hanbal his student corrects this mistake, should we say no but Imaam Shaafi'ee said! Do you think you have more knowledge then Imaam Shaafi'ee brother!? But in truth that is not the issue.

Secondly, as has been mentioned salafiyyah should not be place alongside terms like hanbali or hanafi since this is a clear confusion. Imaam Aboo Haneefah aswell as the other Imaams where all from the salaf themselves, you cant get more salafi then that.

Lastly, if one studies the history of Islaam one will realise how bad the people misunderstood the math-habs and why they were established in the first place. People said a hanafi woman cannot marry a shaafi'ee man and vice versa, but some of these scholars gave fatwa saying it is indeed allowed for a man to marry such a woman since muslim men are allowed to marry christians and jews. Yaa SubhanAllah! They took their own brethren outside of Islaam. This even reached such levels that the holiest of masjids in Makkah had four mihraabs and each group would pray their salah individually.

This is how people misunderstood math-haabs throughout time.
Bro, u really speak the truth...i respect you..jazakullahu khair..
Reply

SamyD
11-18-2009, 12:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AnonymousGender
:sl:
It is me who does not kind of associate myself to a madhab, whereas....it...seems to be of of strong Hanfi background, and with possible misconceptions of those who consider themselves as Salafi. I don't know...I agree madhabs are useful, as long as you are following it correctly...
imsad . If I were to consider myself as a Salafi- would it cause friction with a Hanafi man?
How do you find out if someone is following Islam? My Dad is of high religious standin in my society- wears a thobe, speaks about following islam, Qur'an and Sunnah importance of Madhabs..but then he does things like 'Shabe Meraj'..etc. But if someone were to not ask him that q' specifically they would think he was doing everything right...wouldnt they?
I am just sooooo confused, that I am not sure if Im making sense or babbling..
True Islam is that you give Allah His full Rights without any form of shirk. Allah does not forgive a person who dies while committing shirk, but can forgive any other sin if He wish.
If someone calls himself a Muslim and do all the good deeds, like praying etc, but at the same time calling upon a dead person to help him and save him etc - than all your good deeds will vanish and will not have any meaning, so you die a Mushrik/Kafir.
That's why you should learn more about Tawheed and Shirk and pass it on to others.

Of course someone who follows salaf can marry a hanafi as long as they apply pure Tawheed and Pray 5 times a day etc. It depends on the person self and not the stamp salafi or Hanafi). Be aware that there are sects calling themselves a muslim but they are actually not as I explained above.


There is a difference between madhab salafi and just following the way of the salaf. The first group is only busy with doing djihaad in the wrong way, killing innocent people and themselves etc. (don't understand me wrong -I do support djihaad which is done according to the rulings of Allah and not that which is done according to the desires of people) and write misleading information about Islam and Quran and do not pay any attention to Tawheed.
Following the way of the Salaf is what most Ulama do in Saoudia. This people do not say that they are salafis, because you do not divide yourself. You're just a Muslim. Salafi means that you follow the Prophet Mohamed (peace be upon him) and his sahaba (friends) until the third generation, because the they knew the most as they lived the closest to our beloved prophet (peace be upon him). Following the Salaf means also that you do not describe yourself a particular madhab - you just take the authentic information from all those madhabs

Please PM me if you need any more information or websites.
Reply

kamran javed
11-18-2009, 12:40 PM
JazakAllah. I understand that, I mean even when you follow a madhab your following a scholar...whether your a safali, Hanafi, Hanbali... we all are relying on a scholar to teach us in a way.
Any thoughts to my first sentence on first post? Don't Salafi's look at all books of hadith bu take the one with strongest chain or narration, and fulfills the other criteria of becoming a good hadith?
__________________
Reply

kamran javed
11-18-2009, 12:41 PM
True Islam is that you give Allah His full Rights without any form of shirk. Allah does not forgive a person who dies while committing shirk, but can forgive any other sin if He wish.
If someone calls himself a Muslim and do all the good deeds, like praying etc, but at the same time calling upon a dead person to help him and save him etc - than all your good deeds will vanish and will not have any meaning, so you die a Mushrik/Kafir.
That's why you should learn more about Tawheed and Shirk and pass it on to others.
Reply

kamran javed
11-18-2009, 12:42 PM
Why havent you clicked yet?!
www.khaldun.wordpress.com
Reply

SamyD
11-18-2009, 12:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by kamranjaved2004
Why havent you clicked yet?!
www.khaldun.wordpress.com
You talking to me?
Reply

SamyD
11-18-2009, 12:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by kamranjaved2004
JazakAllah. I understand that, I mean even when you follow a madhab your following a scholar...whether your a safali, Hanafi, Hanbali... we all are relying on a scholar to teach us in a way.
Any thoughts to my first sentence on first post? Don't Salafi's look at all books of hadith bu take the one with strongest chain or narration, and fulfills the other criteria of becoming a good hadith?
__________________
It's just following the Quran and Sunnah and they are following the scholars of Saoudia and not an imitate scholar from somewhere in the West. If you know like a website follows the way of the salaf (after checking it is not the madhab salafi - easy to check as they talk mostly about Tawheed)), than you know you're on the right path finding your way through this jungle of information.
Reply

SamyD
11-18-2009, 12:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AnonymousGender
:sl:
I apologize, as I am not sure where this thread should go. And also I don't want to cause the big 'madhab' debate. But recently I have been hearing that Salafi's only follow the hadeeths by Bukhari and Muslim? I have never heard or read this before. Please can some clarify this?
This was said in a debate about the benfits of following a madhab, that there is a hadeeth in Bukhari which allows mut'a marriages- which we now know has been abrogated (is that spelt right?). How ever Salafi's may just take this hadith and it would fit in wither desires and follow it stating that they are following the sunnah.
So as far as I have learnt is that yes we follow Qur'an and Sunnah yet we are aware that we are not scholars, and thats why we need the help scholars to teach the correct way to understand. Have I misunderstood?
Think you should take a look at this thread
http://www.islamicboard.com/aqeedah/...gle-creed.html
Reply

Rabi'ya
11-18-2009, 12:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Khaldun
:sl:

No true salafi will ever tell you not to follow a math-hab, since all the four imaams are themselves from the salaf and we are obliged to follow them. Rather what almost all salafis call to is that people should not blindly follow any scholar. If Imaam Shaafi'ee, however great scholar he might be, made a ruling and made a mistake [since he only is a human after all] and lets say Imaam Ahmad bin Hanbal his student corrects this mistake, should we say no but Imaam Shaafi'ee said! Do you think you have more knowledge then Imaam Shaafi'ee brother!? But in truth that is not the issue.

Secondly, as has been mentioned salafiyyah should not be place alongside terms like hanbali or hanafi since this is a clear confusion. Imaam Aboo Haneefah aswell as the other Imaams where all from the salaf themselves, you cant get more salafi then that.

Lastly, if one studies the history of Islaam one will realise how bad the people misunderstood the math-habs and why they were established in the first place. People said a hanafi woman cannot marry a shaafi'ee man and vice versa, but some of these scholars gave fatwa saying it is indeed allowed for a man to marry such a woman since muslim men are allowed to marry christians and jews. Yaa SubhanAllah! They took their own brethren outside of Islaam. This even reached such levels that the holiest of masjids in Makkah had four mihraabs and each group would pray their salah individually.

This is how people misunderstood math-haabs throughout time.
SubhanAllah. A lovely reply :)

jazakAllah kheir
Reply

Abdul Qadir
11-19-2009, 03:05 PM
I call myself a salafi..I hate people branding us as salafis....there's no such thing...this is not a sect...ppl are just so defensive...they want to find fault with the salaf's way coz they think we are hardcore but there's actually nothing hardcore about it...if some people love to shave or want to shave, then u cannot change the sunnah right? there's no such thing as salafism...rather, we are the followers of the salaf....the Jama'ah...Wa'tasimu bihablillahi jameea'uwalaa tafarraku...please look at the salafi minhaj with an open heart...may Allah guide us all Ameen...insyallah..
Reply

MSalman
11-19-2009, 06:14 PM
:sl:

please flee from these wanabee salafis. subhaanAllah, because of these jahil laypeople, who copy paste on forums and claim to be salafi, confusions of these sorts are created in our time. akhee Khaldun put it very nicely! It is a big error to differentiate between salafiyyah and following a mathhab. Following a mathhab have to do with fiqh whereas salafiyyah, following the way of the Salaf, covers everything (aqeedah, fiqh, zuhad etc.). How can one claim to be salafi yet against following scholars or a mathhab of the Imams from the Salaf?

If you hear people saying "we should follow the Qur'an and sunnah and not the scholars" just flee from them and pay no heed to what they say. More than 90% of times, they do not even know what they are talking about and implication of their statement and 100% of the times they are themselves following some scholars; however, they just love to utter whatever they hear.

and Allah knows best
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
11-19-2009, 11:49 PM
Taqlid refers to the practice of an unqualified, lay person (in a specific field of specialization) submitting to and accepting the authority of an expert in that field, without demanding proof and justification for every view, opinion or verdict expressed by such an expert authority.

Imitation is a natural tendency of human existence, practiced by millions of people worldwide in every facet of life. The simplest and most tangible example of Taqlid is that of a child learning his basic alphabets at school.

Every child learning his alphabets is unconsciously practicing Taqlid. A learner driver taking instructions from a driving instructor is practicing Taqlid. People going to a specialist doctor for medical treatment and following his instructions is another example of Taqlid.

A lay person soliciting a legal opinion from an advocate or following the advice of a tax consultant is another common case of Taqlid. A client at an engineering firm, asking for the engineer's advice on complex engineering calculations is yet another instance of Taqlid in action.

The millions of 'facts' in the myriad of sciences such as astronomy, archaeology, etc. are all distinct examples of Taqlid.

Who ever questions the 'fact' that the sun is really 93million miles away from the earth! It is taken for granted that this is the findings of the 'experts' in these fields and everyone simply accepts it as such. School teachers teach these to their pupils as 'gospel truth' and children learn and memorize these 'facts' with the hope of succeeding in their exams. There are countless such examples of Taqlid in everyday existence.

By way of extension, Taqlid is the easy option for ordinary people In the context of Islamic Fiqh or Law too.

Taqlid in Islam simply refers to accepting and following the verdicts of expert scholars of Islamic Fiqh in their exposition and interpretation of Islamic Law, without demanding from them an in-depth explanation of the intricate processes (Ijtihad) required in arriving at such a verdict.

It simply means that ordinary folk do not have to do Ijtihad. The duty of ordinary people is to trustingly accept the authority of the learned scholars in this matter and act upon their verdicts.

In this sense, Taqlid is a great blessing for common people, for it is beyond the capacity of everyone to understand the extremely complex and complicated mechanics of Ijtihad.

The ability to do Ijtihad requires many long years of study and erudition and a great deal of exertion in acquiring a mastery of various Islamic sciences.
Reply

Abdul Qadir
11-20-2009, 12:09 AM
the salafi's follow the path which the 4 great madhabs followed...the people who are following shafee, hanafi, hambali are not...
Reply

MSalman
11-20-2009, 03:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Qadir
the salafi's follow the path which the 4 great madhabs followed...the people who are following shafee, hanafi, hambali are not...
akhee al-kareem, how did you reach that conlucsion, please enlighhten me? Were the 4 Imams (rahimahumllah) not among the Salaf? If Salafiyyah is to follow the path which the 4 Imams (rahimahumllah) followed, then how can following one the math-hab (understanding of one of the 4 Imams) be considered as not following the path of the Salaf.

Lastly, let me ask you, do you even know what is Salfiyyah? Because I know from my experience that many times people hear things from these wannabee salafis, who have created their own hizbiyyah and sect, and go around spreading it while they do not anything about true meaning of salafiyyah and what the salafi scholars have said.

akhee al-kareem, you need to spend more time with brothers who actually hold onto the way of the Salaf than those who are self proclaimed salafis and like to use this label.
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
11-20-2009, 08:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamiclife
akhee al-kareem, how did you reach that conlucsion, please enlighhten me? Were the 4 Imams (rahimahumllah) not among the Salaf? If Salafiyyah is to follow the path which the 4 Imams (rahimahumllah) followed, then how can following one the math-hab (understanding of one of the 4 Imams) be considered as not following the path of the Salaf.

Lastly, let me ask you, do you even know what is Salfiyyah? Because I know from my experience that many times people hear things from these wannabee salafis, who have created their own hizbiyyah and sect, and go around spreading it while they do not anything about true meaning of salafiyyah and what the salafi scholars have said.

akhee al-kareem, you need to spend more time with brothers who actually hold onto the way of the Salaf than those who are self proclaimed salafis and like to use this label.
Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, very well said my brother. It is clearly a lack of knowledge and ignorance that lead people to this type of thinking.

A madhhab represents the entire school of thought of a particular mujtahid Imam, such as Abu Hanifa, Malik, Shafi'i, or Ahmad--together with many first-rank scholars that came after each of these in their respective schools, who checked their evidences and refined and upgraded their work.

The mujtahid Imams were thus explainers, who operationalized the Qur'an and sunna in the specific shari'a rulings in our lives that are collectively known as fiqh or "jurisprudence". In relation to our din or "religion", this fiqh is only part of it, for the religious knowledge each of us possesses is of three types.

The first type is the general knowledge of tenets of Islamic belief in the oneness of Allah, in His angels, Books, messengers, the prophethood of Muhammad (Allah bless him and give him peace), and so on.

All of us may derive this knowledge directly from the Qur'an and hadith, as is also the case with a second type of knowledge, that of general Islamic ethical principles to do good, avoid evil, cooperate with others in good works, and so forth.

Every Muslim can take these general principles, which form the largest and most important part of his religion, from the Qur'an and hadith. The third type of knowledge is that of the specific understanding of particular divine commands and prohibitions that make up the shari'a.

Here, because of both the nature and the sheer number of the Qur'an and hadith texts involved, people differ in the scholarly capacity to understand and deduce rulings from them. But all of us have been commanded to live them in our lives, in obedience to Allah, and so Muslims are of two types, those who can do this by themselves, and they are the mujtahid Imams; and those who must do so by means of another, that is, by following a mujtahid Imam, in accordance with Allah's word in Surat al-Nahl,

" Ask those who recall, if you know not " (Qur'an 16:43), and in Surat al-Nisa, " If they had referred it to the Messenger and to those of authority among them, then those of them whose task it is to find it out would have known the matter " (Qur'an 4:83), in which the phrase those of them whose task it is to find it out, expresses the words "alladhina yastanbitunahu minhum", referring to those possessing the capacity to draw inferences directly from the evidence, which is called in Arabic istinbat.

These and other verses and hadiths oblige the believer who is not at the level of istinbat or directly deriving rulings from the Qur'an and hadith to ask and follow someone in such rulings who is at this level. It is not difficult to see why Allah has obliged us to ask experts, for if each of us were personally responsible for evaluating all the primary texts relating to each question, a lifetime of study would hardly be enough for it, and one would either have to give up earning a living or give up ones din.

It is not a question of whether or not to take our din from scholars, but rather, from which scholars. And this is the reason we have madhhabs in Islam: because the excellence and superiority of the scholarship of the mujtahid Imams--together with the traditional scholars who followed in each of their schools and evaluated and upgraded their work after them--have met the test of scholarly investigation and won the confidence of thinking and practicing Muslims for all the centuries of Islamic greatness.

The reason why madhhabs exist, the benefit of them, past, present, and future, is that they furnish thousands of sound, knowledge-based answers to Muslims questions on how to obey Allah. Muslims have realized that to follow a madhhab means to follow a super scholar who not only had a comprehensive knowledge of the Qur'an and hadith texts relating to each issue he gave judgements on, but also lived in an age a millennium closer to the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) and his Companions, when taqwa or "godfearingness" was the norm--both of which conditions are in striking contrast to the scholarship available today.
Reply

An-Nughair
11-23-2009, 09:11 PM
Following a Madhab is in essence following the Qur'an and the Sunnah, no one will say that the 4 Imams didn't follow Qur'an and Sunnah. They knew Qur'an and Sunnah better than anyone living in this day and age, simply because they were in the "Golden Age" or as we call the Salaf as Saliheen.

The 4 Imams followed the way of the Sahaba before them, and we all know that the Sahaba are the shining stars, if we follow them, we will be guided.

Differences of opinion is a Rahma in this Ummah. The Sahaba had differences and so did their followers after them. It just gets to show the beauty of our deen.
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
11-23-2009, 09:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by An-Nughair
Following a Madhab is in essence following the Qur'an and the Sunnah, no one will say that the 4 Imams didn't follow Qur'an and Sunnah. They knew Qur'an and Sunnah better than anyone living in this day and age, simply because they were in the "Golden Age" or as we call the Salaf as Saliheen.

The 4 Imams followed the way of the Sahaba before them, and we all know that the Sahaba are the shining stars, if we follow them, we will be guided.

Differences of opinion is a Rahma in this Ummah. The Sahaba had differences and so did their followers after them. It just gets to show the beauty of our deen.
Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, Subhanallah beautifully put. May Allah lead us all in the right direction. Ameen
Reply

Abdul Qadir
11-24-2009, 09:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamiclife
akhee al-kareem, how did you reach that conlucsion, please enlighhten me? Were the 4 Imams (rahimahumllah) not among the Salaf? If Salafiyyah is to follow the path which the 4 Imams (rahimahumllah) followed, then how can following one the math-hab (understanding of one of the 4 Imams) be considered as not following the path of the Salaf.

Lastly, let me ask you, do you even know what is Salfiyyah? Because I know from my experience that many times people hear things from these wannabee salafis, who have created their own hizbiyyah and sect, and go around spreading it while they do not anything about true meaning of salafiyyah and what the salafi scholars have said.

akhee al-kareem, you need to spend more time with brothers who actually hold onto the way of the Salaf than those who are self proclaimed salafis and like to use this label.
All the 4 great madhabs say dun follow them, but follow the Quran & hadith as they themselves were the follower of Quran and Hadith....but from what we see, the shafees have a different way of praying, the hanafees have a different way of praying...but according to the sunnah of Muhammad SAW, there's only one way of praying...i've always maintained that these 4 madhabs are salafs...there's no doubt about it....these are islamic greats...but they did not ask to follow them..but rather, the Quran and Hadith...the sunnah...but its sad to see ppl have created sects amongst themselves based on these 4 great scholars...
Reply

Abdul Qadir
11-24-2009, 09:36 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamiclife
then how can following one the math-hab (understanding of one of the 4 Imams) be considered as not following the path of the Salaf.
Its not considered following the path of the Salaf because all the 4 great imams were following the Sunnah of Muhammad..they differed only in terms of Fiqh..so all of them were following the path of Muhammad SAW...and theres only one way..the Muhammad way..and thats the way of the Imam Shafee, Ahmed ibnu Hambal, Imam Malik etc etc...If what ur saying is true, y did Muhammad SAW predicted a the coming of Dajjal for 40 days on the earth but did not say anything about the 4 madhabs and y should ppl follow them? because there's only one way to islam...we can see right..even in mecca/medina..there are special places for the hanafees and shafees....so that they can do their worship in accordance to the madhab of their choice..do u think Imam Shafee or Imam Ahmed ibnu Hambal will be proud of this? coz this is certainly not their way...
Reply

ardianto
11-24-2009, 06:17 PM
:sl:

Brothers, sisters, please forgive me if I offend you. I also have a confusion about Salafi and hadeeths.

I found two website from Muslim people who call themselves Salafi.

In first website, I found haddeths about picture of life creature. In this website I found explanation if every kind of picture of life creature is haram including photo and video. They said Muslim are not allowed to use camera to take picture of life creatures, even Muslims are not allowed to have a photo of themselves.

In second website, I found the same hadeeths, but complete with background stories why Prophet Muhammad (SAW) said those hadeeths. In this website I found an explanation if take picture of life creatures with camera or video camera is allowed but not totally halal, there are some rules about it.

The first website was confused me. Why they rejected the background stories of that hadeeths ?.
Reply

MSalman
11-24-2009, 09:29 PM
:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Qadir
Its not considered following the path of the Salaf because all the 4 great imams were following the Sunnah of Muhammad..they differed only in terms of Fiqh..so all of them were following the path of Muhammad SAW...and theres only one way..the Muhammad way..and thats the way of the Imam Shafee, Ahmed ibnu Hambal, Imam Malik etc etc...
my brother, you are displaying lack of knowledge and contradicting yourself in the very sentence.

If the Imams followed the path of the Salaf and they were following the Sunnah of Allah's Messenger (sal-allahu alayhi wa sallam), then how can you claim that one following the 4 Imams is not following the Sunnah or way of the Salaf? Please explain me the difference here

format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Qadir
If what ur saying is true, y did Muhammad SAW predicted a the coming of Dajjal for 40 days on the earth but did not say anything about the 4 madhabs and y should ppl follow them?
one way you are saying the the 4 Imams followed the Sunnah, which is the only way, and then you are implying that following them is somehow wrong. No one claims that we are following the Imams, they did not bring new Shari'ah. Those who associate themselves to math-hab are following these Imam's understanding of the Shari'ah. The people who do not have knowledge are obliged to ask those who have knowledge - this is command in the Qur'an; hence, following the understanding of the scholars. Are you now going to say that following the command of Allah is wrong?

What did the Prophet (sal-allahu alayhi wa sallam) say? He said follow me and my companions? Was he saying that his companions will bring a new shari'ah or way other than his Sunnah. No, he (sal-allahu alayhi wa sallam) meant that follow the understanding of the Shari'ah of his companions. So now if someone follows the understanding of the companions, will you say that he is wrong? Keep in mind that sahabas differed over fiqhi issues and this is one of the reasons why the latter Imams differed among themselves on fiqhi issues.

Tell me ya akhee al-kareem, do you not take fatawa from a scholar? What do you call it? Since you claim yourself to be a salafi, did you know that most of saudi scholars are hanbalis. 95% of salafis like you take fatawas from saudi scholars, which means most of your fiqh is based upon hanabli math-hab.

format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Qadir
because there's only one way to islam...we can see right..even in mecca/medina..there are special places for the hanafees and shafees....so that they can do their worship in accordance to the madhab of their choice..do u think Imam Shafee or Imam Ahmed ibnu Hambal will be proud of this? coz this is certainly not their way...
and where did you get this from?

format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Qadir
All the 4 great madhabs say dun follow them , but follow the Quran & hadith as they themselves were the follower of Quran and Hadith
First, this statement is contradictory. How could they have gone against the command of Allah and tell a jahil ami to directly look into the Qur'an and Sunnah? This is a grave mistake being indirectly attributed to the Imams (rahimahumullah). When it is clear that they were following the Qur'an and Sunnah then how is following them is wrong because we will simply be following what they followed? The awam is obliged to follow the understanding of the scholars as explained above. We are not suppose to follow the errors and mistakes of the scholars and that is something we can learn only via other scholars and not by ourselves because we do not have the tools to do this.

The statements of the Imams that do not follow our fatawas when they contradict the Qur'an were directed toward their students, those who are capable of looking into the text and weigh stronger versus weak, and not awam.

Please my dear brother, have a look at All about following a Madhab and taqleed

format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Qadir
....but from what we see, the shafees have a different way of praying, the hanafees have a different way of praying...but according to the sunnah of Muhammad SAW, there's only one way of praying...
akhee al-kareem, do you know the difference between wajib arkan of the salah and sunnah arkan of the salah? The only major problem with difference is in regard to maliki opinion of not folding hands. Rest of their differences are over sunnah arkan for which you are not sinning if you leave neither your salah is invalid.

format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Qadir
but its sad to see ppl have created sects amongst themselves based on these 4 great scholars...
read my reply in following thread: Zakir Naik - sects in Islam

and Allah knows best
Reply

Abdul Qadir
11-30-2009, 03:42 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamiclife
:sl:


If the Imams followed the path of the Salaf and they were following the Sunnah of Allah's Messenger (sal-allahu alayhi wa sallam), then how can you claim that one following the 4 Imams is not following the Sunnah or way of the Salaf? Please explain me the difference here

akhee al-kareem, do you know the difference between wajib arkan of the salah and sunnah arkan of the salah? The only major problem with difference is in regard to maliki opinion of not folding hands. Rest of their differences are over sunnah arkan for which you are not sinning if you leave neither your salah is invalid.

read my reply in following thread: Zakir Naik - sects in Islam

and Allah knows best
Every Major imam says when their words contradicts with the words of the prophet SAW, its obligatory upon the ummah to follow the Rasul's hadith..the 4 great imams themselves makes mistakes, and they have said it themselves too. When Abu yusuff, follower of Abu Hanifah Rahimullah came across many Hadith muttawatir that the rasul SAW used to say takbir when he did rukuh, after rukuh and when he raised himself from prostration back to standing position, Abu Yusoff corrected himself. its no harm saying we are shafee hanafi, hambali or maliki but its obligatory for us to seek knowledge and not just follow the way of the shafee, hanafee, hambali or maliki. u can see what the malikis' are doing...by not folding their hands...do u think this is what imam Malik rahimullah did? i dun think so...this is what we call misguidance...and also, according to the shafees, when a woman touches u, ur wudu is broken..so during hajj, they make an intention where they say they are hanafees during that period..so do u really want to follow a madhhab?
Reply

Alamgir
04-28-2018, 03:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ali.ibni
Salafi only follow the Hadith in Shahih Al Bukhari , that's real Al Islam .
Asalamu Alaikum

No, we only follow ahadith that are sahih as per the standard of Bukhari, Muslim or Albani.
Reply

azc
04-28-2018, 03:58 PM
We should not confine sahih hadith in bukhari and Muslim only.

For authentication of hadith past imams in this field are more reliable
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 19
    Last Post: 11-04-2015, 03:34 AM
  2. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-29-2014, 09:38 AM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-02-2011, 03:05 PM
  4. Replies: 10
    Last Post: 02-10-2010, 06:51 PM
British Wholesales - Certified Wholesale Linen & Towels | Holiday in the Maldives

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!