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anonymous
11-11-2009, 05:07 PM
:sl:

I just wanted to know if its OK to listen to naats/nasheeds from brelvi artists etc?
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Rafeeq
11-12-2009, 05:22 AM
Lyrics/poetry is much improtant.

We should always remember INASH SHIRKA LIDHULMUN ADHEEM
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
11-12-2009, 12:50 PM
Originally Posted by anonymous
:sl:

I just wanted to know if its OK to listen to naats/nasheeds from brelvi artists etc?
Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, one has to be very careful when listening to naats by brelvees because they are influenced heavily by Shia and many of these brelvee nasheeds and naats contain shirk like expressing the omnipresence of our Prophet (Pbuh) by saying "Ya Rasulallah", and also "Ya Ali Madat", which is asking Ali (RA) for help which is also major shirk because Allah is the ONLY one we can ask for help.

A lot of their ideology and the way they think and portray our Prophet (Pbuh) is in sang in their nasheeds and naats, so why should one knowing the fact that what they believe is false and shirk then listen to what they have to say in their songs and enjoy it?

Then indirectly one is conforming to their false beliefs by allowing oneself to listen to whatever they have to say in their nasheeds and naats. Sameway we should not listen to Music with haraam lyrics and words then why should we listen to shirk and false beliefs about Rasulallah (Pbuh)?

So should one not save themselves from getting their ideology and their false way of thinking into our heads? It is a fact that if one listens to a song enough the words will automatically play in our heads and one would even start to repeat the words without even noticing. If the nasheed or naat is catchy then one who lsitens to it enough would have the words imprinted in their heads and even repeat the words and if the words contain shirk that we end up repeating is that right?

Shaythan will always make it out to us that it is 'innocent' and 'alright' for us to listen to their nasheeds because he wants us to slowly and gradually get influenced by their false way of thinking and eventually commit shirk by believing what they do about our Prophet (Pbuh).

Remmember that shaythan does everything gradually and in stages so let us NOT be fooled by him into thinking it is alright to listen to these nasheeds and naats and end up eventually repeating them because we listen to them so much and Allah forbid even believing the words after lsitening to them for so long.

Brelvees are very active in nasheeds and naats and are always going on about having love for Rasulallah (Pbuh) but one who has true love for someone and who sees them as their role model will want to resemble them in EVERY aspect of ones life in how he dressed and everything he did and abiding by everything he said and wanted us to do. This is how you show true love not just by singing and saying you love him. Actions speak louder than words.

Let us follow the Qur'an and the Sunnah to the best of our ability inshallah
Reply

anonymous
11-12-2009, 07:45 PM
JazakALLAH-heir for all responses

Brother Hamza - I take on what your saying but a deobandi brother I know listened to Owais Qadri naats.

If you could spare 5 minutes of your time then please tell me if these are OK to listen to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-vp2Mrb4B8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZOfkzveacY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvJHGeyX_O8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULUASviRwFA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_0JuiSyqOQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pk0fFKFLvaY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOr880h3HbE

JazakALLAH-heir brother Hamza
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Hamza Asadullah
11-12-2009, 08:09 PM
Originally Posted by anonymous
JazakALLAH-heir for all responses

Brother Hamza - I take on what your saying but a deobandi brother I know listened to Owais Qadri naats.

If you could spare 5 minutes of your time then please tell me if these are OK to listen to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-vp2Mrb4B8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZOfkzveacY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvJHGeyX_O8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULUASviRwFA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_0JuiSyqOQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pk0fFKFLvaY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOr880h3HbE

JazakALLAH-heir brother Hamza
Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, my brother the Deobandi position aswell as Ijma(Consensus) of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'ah is that innovations are to be kept away from and that one should not involve oneself with anyone who does innovation rather we should invite those brothers towards the right way according to the Qur'an and Sunnah and not conform to their beliefs by listening to their Music.

Without a doubt his voice is nice but when one listens to some of his words then it is clear that they contain much bida'a and shirk. For example "Tera Khawaan Main" which means that we eat from the Prophet's sustainence.

Also when he continuouly chants "Ya Rasulallah", which means O Prophet implying that the Prophet (Pbuh) is omnipresent. Also look at his audiences actions like waving money around his head which is a typical Pakistani cultural belief of luck. Him standing up as though waiting for someones spirit!! saying 'ya rasulullah'!

Brothr if one analyses his words and actions it is clear that this is not true Islam rather it is full of Bid'a (innovation),culture and shirk.

We must keep away from this and safeguard ourselves from those who are misled and pray for them that Allah guides them and unseals their hearts. Ameen
Reply

cat eyes
11-13-2009, 03:22 PM
:sl:
It seems like there is shirk everywhere. that is scary we have to be aware of everything. there is alot of muslims on youtube who upload nasheeds like you do not know what they are actually saying because they sing in there own language i think its best off to listen to quran recitation. i did hear the word prophet mohammad pbuh being said alot in these nasheeds so i was always weary of them even though other muslims i know listen to them and they said that its praising prophet mohammad sw but that surely is haraam.ive never listened to them.
Reply

OurIslamic
11-15-2009, 07:12 AM
What is a naat/nasheed? I might know of it, under a different name.
Reply

Sampharo
11-15-2009, 08:51 AM
I don't think these are appropriate even if they are NOT saying "Ya rasolallah" or Shia things.:ermm: Since when is swaying around and throwing your arms on the pronounced beatbox like that and getting into such emotional states are of Islam?

Subhan Allah
Reply

Abdul Qadir
11-15-2009, 09:05 AM
Originally Posted by Hamza81
Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, one has to be very careful when listening to naats by brelvees because they are influenced heavily by Shia and many of these brelvee nasheeds and naats contain shirk like expressing the omnipresence of our Prophet (Pbuh) by saying "Ya Rasulallah", and also "Ya Ali Madat", which is asking Ali (RA) for help which is also major shirk because Allah is the ONLY one we can ask for help.

A lot of their ideology and the way they think and portray our Prophet (Pbuh) is in sang in their nasheeds and naats, so why should one knowing the fact that what they believe is false and shirk then listen to what they have to say in their songs and enjoy it?

Then indirectly one is conforming to their false beliefs by allowing oneself to listen to whatever they have to say in their nasheeds and naats. Sameway we should not listen to Music with haraam lyrics and words then why should we listen to shirk and false beliefs about Rasulallah (Pbuh)?

So should one not save themselves from getting their ideology and their false way of thinking into our heads? It is a fact that if one listens to a song enough the words will automatically play in our heads and one would even start to repeat the words without even noticing. If the nasheed or naat is catchy then one who lsitens to it enough would have the words imprinted in their heads and even repeat the words and if the words contain shirk that we end up repeating is that right?

Shaythan will always make it out to us that it is 'innocent' and 'alright' for us to listen to their nasheeds because he wants us to slowly and gradually get influenced by their false way of thinking and eventually commit shirk by believing what they do about our Prophet (Pbuh).

Remmember that shaythan does everything gradually and in stages so let us NOT be fooled by him into thinking it is alright to listen to these nasheeds and naats and end up eventually repeating them because we listen to them so much and Allah forbid even believing the words after lsitening to them for so long.

Brelvees are very active in nasheeds and naats and are always going on about having love for Rasulallah (Pbuh) but one who has true love for someone and who sees them as their role model will want to resemble them in EVERY aspect of ones life in how he dressed and everything he did and abiding by everything he said and wanted us to do. This is how you show true love not just by singing and saying you love him. Actions speak louder than words.

Let us follow the Qur'an and the Sunnah to the best of our ability inshallah
Dude,

Whats wrong with saying, "Ya rasulallah."?
Reply

Insaanah
11-15-2009, 09:33 AM
Originally Posted by Abdul Kadir
Dude,

Whats wrong with saying, "Ya rasulallah."?
:sl: brother

Yaa means "O". It is a term used to call someone. Like you might say yaa ammee/ummee, when calling your mother. It is used for either someone who is present with you, or the only other time it is used is to call the Omnipotent one, Allah subhaanahu wa ta'aalaa, rabbul 'aalameen. Yaa Allah.

Rasoolullah sallallaahu alaihi wasallam is neither present with us, nor omnipotent, therefore we cannot say "Ya rasoolullah". If you say that, you are implying one of the two above things.

:sl:
Reply

unitedmuslim73
11-15-2009, 09:47 AM
The followers of Abu hanifa manifest their love for the prophet and for Allah by reciting naat in important events held in the history of islam. Most of the wordings are more or less correct. But the tone of the naat is from bollywood songs, does that making it haraam?:hmm:
Reply

Insaanah
11-15-2009, 10:03 AM
:sl:

As far as I know, most of the singers of shirkiya naats are brehlavi, and most of the brehlavis will call themselves Hanafi. There are very few that I have heard where the wording is not plain wrong or at least questionable. If they say they are Hanafis, I don't recall any accounts of Imam Abu Hanifa, may Allah be pleased with him, of singing the Prophets praises. That is not the way to show your love of someone. Anyone can sing praises. The real test of love is following the teachings and not deviating from them. Rather he followed Allah and the sunnah of his prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallam to the best of his ability, and learned about Islam as much as he could, and not only practised it himself, but propagated it to others. The best praise of Allah is the Qur'an and Adhkaar from the sunnah, the best praise of the prophet is the darood shareef. We are ordered in Surah al- Ahzaab to ask Allah to send blessings on him, as Allah himself sends blessings on him. The prescribed way for this from the sunnah is darood. Is not Allah's way and the way shown by the Prophet the best way?

The accompanying music is another issue, which also not only is disallowed, but to add insult, we associate the disallowed thing with the praise of the prophet sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam.

:sl:
Reply

Sampharo
11-15-2009, 10:32 AM
Originally Posted by unitedmuslim73
The followers of Abu hanifa manifest their love for the prophet and for Allah by reciting naat in important events held in the history of islam. Most of the wordings are more or less correct. But the tone of the naat is from bollywood songs, does that making it haraam?:hmm:
As the post above explained, it's not "followers of Abu Haneefa" that do that, it's sufis and brehlavi. This whole concept of "manifesting" the love or "celebrating" the prophet or his companions in song with rhythemic music is an innovation and a bidah (a seriously bad one). Do not confuse the fact that someone happens to say they adopt Hanafi fiqh, to be that it is Hanafi habit or part of his fiqh to practice such things.
Reply

Abdul Qadir
11-15-2009, 12:55 PM
Originally Posted by Insane Insaan
:sl: brother

Yaa means "O". It is a term used to call someone. Like you might say yaa ammee/ummee, when calling your mother. It is used for either someone who is present with you, or the only other time it is used is to call the Omnipotent one, Allah subhaanahu wa ta'aalaa, rabbul 'aalameen. Yaa Allah.

Rasoolullah sallallaahu alaihi wasallam is neither present with us, nor omnipotent, therefore we cannot say "Ya rasoolullah". If you say that, you are implying one of the two above things.

:sl:
I learnt something new today..jazaak allahu khair...but is it shirk?
Reply

AbdullahSyed
11-15-2009, 01:11 PM
Are these people not mocking the name of Allah swt by replacing it with music. They are only saying Allah in the background for entertainment purpose so the music can be replaced. So either way I think it would be haram wouldnt it?
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
11-15-2009, 01:19 PM
Originally Posted by Abdul Kadir
I learnt something new today..jazaak allahu khair...but is it shirk?
Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb,

Praise be to Allaah.

It is not permissible to call upon anyone other than Allaah, whether at times of ease or times of hardship, no matter how great the status of the one who is called upon, even if he is a Prophet who is close to Allaah, or one of the angels, because du’aa’ is a form of worship.

It was narrated from al-Nu’maan ibn Basheer that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Du’aa’ is worship,” then he recited (interpretation of the meaning):

“And your Lord said: ‘Invoke Me [i.e. believe in My Oneness (Islamic Monotheism) and ask Me for anything] I will respond to your (invocation). Verily, those who scorn My worship [i.e. do not invoke Me, and do not believe in My Oneness, (Islamic Monotheism)] they will surely enter Hell in humiliation!’”

[Ghaafir 40:60]

Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 2895; Ibn Maajah, 3818

Worship is due only to Allaah; it is not permitted to direct worship towards anyone else. Hence the Muslims are agreed that whoever calls upon anyone other than Allaah is a mushrik (polytheist, one who associates others with Allaah).

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said:

Whoever regards the angels and Prophets as intermediaries whom he calls upon, puts his trust in and asks them to bring that which will benefit him and ward off harmful things, such as asking them to forgive sins, guide them, relieve them of distress and meet their needs, is a kaafir, according to the consensus of the Muslims.

Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 1/124.

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

The kinds of shirk include asked the dead for one's needs, or seeking their help, or turning to them. This is the essence of shirk.

Fath al-Majeed, p. 145

Hence Allaah has said that there is no one more astray than the one who calls on others besides Him. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And who is more astray than one who calls on (invokes) besides Allaah, such as will not answer him till the Day of Resurrection, and who are (even) unaware of their calls (invocations) to them?

And when mankind are gathered (on the Day of Resurrection), they (false deities) will become their enemies and will deny their worshipping”

[al-Ahqaaf 46:5-6]

How can he call on others besides Allaah, when Allaah has told us that they are helpless? Allaah says:

“And those, whom you invoke or call upon instead of Him, own not even a Qitmeer (the thin membrane over the date stone).

If you invoke (or call upon) them, they hear not your call; and if (in case) they were to hear, they could not grant it (your request) to you. And on the Day of Resurrection, they will disown your worshipping them. And none can inform you (O Muhammad) like Him Who is the All‑Knower (of everything)”

[Faatir 35:13-14]

Shaykh ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn Hasan Aal al-Shaykh said:

Allaah tells us the situation of those who are called upon instead of Him, of the angels, Prophets, idols, etc. in a manner that indicates their helplessness and weakness, and that they lack the abilities that are to be expected in the one who is called upon, such as sovereignty, the ability to hear the call and the ability to respond.

Fath al-Majeed, p. 158

How can the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) be called upon, when Allaah has commanded him to say, “Say: ‘It is not in my power to cause you harm, or to bring you to the Right Path’” [al-Jinn 72:21 – interpretation of the meaning]

And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “If you ask, then ask of Allaah, and if you seek help, then seek the help of Allaah.”

Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 2516;

Hence there can be no doubt that it is a mistake to praise the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) in the words

“O most noble of creation, I have nobody to turn to except you when calamity strikes.”

The major scholars have denounced this as being wrong.

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) warned us, according to the report narrated by al-Bukhaari and Muslim, ‘Do not praise me as the Christians praised ‘Eesa ibn Maryam, I am the slave of Allaah and His Messenger.’ Rather the way to venerate him and love him is by following his Sunnah and establishing his religion and rejecting all the myths that the ignorant attribute to him. But most of the people do not do this, and they occupy themselves with this exaggeration and praise which leads them to commit major shirk.”

Fath al-Majeed, p. 155

Moreover, it is not known that even a single Sahaabi used to seek the help of the Messenger or call upon the Messenger, neither was that transmitted from any of the respectable scholars. It is only one of the myths of the deviant.

If something troubles you, then say Yaa Allaah, for He is the One Who answers prayers, relieves distress and controls all things.

And Allaah knows best.
Reply

ardianto
11-15-2009, 02:27 PM
Originally Posted by Insane Insaan
:sl: brother

Yaa means "O". It is a term used to call someone. Like you might say yaa ammee/ummee, when calling your mother. It is used for either someone who is present with you, or the only other time it is used is to call the Omnipotent one, Allah subhaanahu wa ta'aalaa, rabbul 'aalameen. Yaa Allah.

Rasoolullah sallallaahu alaihi wasallam is neither present with us, nor omnipotent, therefore we cannot say "Ya rasoolullah". If you say that, you are implying one of the two above things.

:sl:
How about this popular shalawat ?.

Yaa Nabi salaam 'alaika
Yaa Rasool salaam 'alaika
Yaa Habiib salaam 'alaika
Sholawattullah 'alaika


Is this shirk or bid'ah lyric ?.
Reply

Insaanah
11-15-2009, 02:34 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
How about this popular shalawat ?.

Yaa Nabi salaam 'alaika
Yaa Rasool salaam 'alaika
Yaa Habiib salaam 'alaika
Sholawattullah 'alaika


Is this shirk or bid'ah lyric ?.
:sl:

We ask Allah to send salaam on the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallam, because we cannot talk to someone in their grave. The only place on earth I would be able to say this is standing in front of the raudha of rasoolullah sallallahu alaihi wa sallam.

:sl:
Reply

ardianto
11-15-2009, 03:05 PM
Originally Posted by Insane Insaan
:sl:

We ask Allah to send salaam on the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallam, because we cannot talk to someone in their grave. The only place on earth I would be able to say this is standing in front of the raudha of rasoolullah sallallahu alaihi wa sallam.

:sl:
:sl:
You didn't gave me a clear answer, but I understand what your talking about.
:sl:
Reply

Insaanah
11-15-2009, 04:36 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
:sl:
You didn't gave me a clear answer, but I understand what your talking about.
:sl:
:sl: Brother,

Yaa is used for either someone who is present with you, or the only other time it is used is to call the Omnipotent one, Allah subhaanahu wa ta'aalaa, rabbul 'aalameen. Yaa Allah.

Rasoolullah sallallaahu alaihi wasallam is neither present with us, nor omnipotent, therefore we cannot say "Ya rasoolullah". If you say that, you are implying one of the two above things.

So you either mean that the prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallam is omnipotent, or that he is present and hearing you. Bear in mind that only Allah is Omnipotent, and that dead people, no matter how pious, and no matter even if they were a prophet, are not present. If a person is alive and present with you that's fine. We are allowed to give salaams to rasoolullah directly by saying "yaa", only at his blessed raudha, where his grave is in front of us.

So, if you make someone other than Allah omnipotent, or you make a dead person present and hearing you (whereas only Allah has those qualities)...I think you'll find your answer as to whether it's shirk or not.

Also, as to whether it is bid'ah, as far as I know, no sahaaba called on rasoolullah sallallahu alaihi wa sallam as "yaa rasoolullah" after his death, and they did not teach us to do so. I think that will give you your answer as to whether it is bid'ah.

Allah knows best.

:sl:
Reply

ardianto
11-15-2009, 05:03 PM
Actually we cannot review Sufi's nasheeds through Salafi's perspective.
But we must respect to every opinions.
And I hope no one use this thread for insult each other.

Wasalamualaikum warahmatullah wabarakatuh.
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
11-15-2009, 05:26 PM
Originally Posted by AbdullahSyed
Being with these people since young age I can truly say they are munfiq. They ("ulama") do not take care of their prayer but dance the night away on Qawali. They will overrule, rulings of Allah and his prophet peace be upon him with there fictional stories. I swear 95% of them do not take their religion serious the rest 5% are truly lost.
Assalamu alaikum,

And why did you not, when you heard it, say? 'It is not right of us to speak of this. Glory to Allah, this is a most serious slander!' (Surah al-Nur, Vs: 11-16)

From `Ubayd Allah ibn `Umar, from Nafi`:

A man said to Ibn `Umar: "I have a neighbor who bears witness against me that I commit shirk." He replied: "Say: 'La Ilaha illAllah,' you will make him a liar."

From Sawwar ibn Shabib al-A`raji:

I was sitting in Ibn `Umar's house when a man came and said: "O Ibn `Umar! There are groups of people bearing witness against us and attributing to us kufr and shirk." Ibn `Umar replied: "Woe to you! Did you not say: 'La Ilaha IllAllah'?!" Whereupon the entire household began to say La Ilaha IllAllah until the house was shaking.

From al-A`mash, from Abu Sufyan:

We came to see Jabir ibn `Abd Allah who lived in Makkah and resided with the Banu Fihr. A man asked him: "Did you [the Companions] use to call anyone from the People of the Qibla [i.e. Muslims], 'Mushrik'?" He replied: "I seek refuge in Allah." The man continued: "Did you call anyone from them 'Kafir'?" He said: "No."


Ibn Abidin states in his Radd al-Muhtar [‘al-Hashiya’]:

“The reality of cursing (la`n) is to distance from Mercy, which cannot be for other than an unbeliever (kafir).

Because of this, it is not permitted to curse a particular individual, unless it is known that they died in a state of disbelief, with proof. [It remains impermissible to curse an individual person] even if they were openly corrupt, like Yazid, according to the relied upon scholarly opinion.

One may not intend to curse everyone of such a group, because if cursing one particular individual, such as a given wrongdoer, is not permitted, then how would cursing every single oppressor be allowed? [Ibn Abidin, Radd al-Muhtar, 3.416, K: al-Talaq, B: al-Raj`a]

As for cursing a particular believer, it is a major sin, as mentioned by Imam Ibn Hajar al-Haytami in his work on major sins. [Haytami, al-Zawajir `an Iqtiraf al-Kaba'ir, 2.93]

So brother let us not lower ourselves and fall into major sin for classing others to be what they may not be, who are we to judge? But Allah is the best judge and he will judge all on the day of judgement so let us not try to do Allah's job for him but let us pray for those who are misguided and misled and ask Allah to guide them to the straight path. Ameen
Reply

Insaanah
11-15-2009, 06:54 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
Actually we cannot review Sufi's nasheeds through Salafi's perspective.
But we must respect to every opinions.
And I hope no one use this thread for insult each other.
:sl:

Brother, I don't know what a "Salafi's perspective" is, because I am not a Salafi. I am merely a Muslim who tries to follow Allah's command, and the sunnah of the prophet and the way of the sahaaba through Qur'an and authentic ahadeeth, taking into account the four schools of thought, without changing anything in the deen, and without introducing anything new into the deen. I have no label. We are not supposed to have labels or groups in Islam.

What I have stated is not my opinion. I am not allowed to state an opinion on any Islamic matter. Anything I have stated is according the sunnah and practice of the sahaabah, may Allah be pleased with them.

As far as I know I have not insulted anyone in this thread. If I inadvertently have, then I sincerely ask for forgiveness. All I have stated is how the deen was at the time of the Prophet (sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam) and the sahaaba (may Allah be pleased with them) which is how it is supposed to be now and forever. If anyone finds that insulting...something is seriously wrong.....

:sl:
Reply

ardianto
11-16-2009, 03:06 AM
Originally Posted by Insane Insaan
:sl:

Brother, I don't know what a "Salafi's perspective" is, because I am not a Salafi. I am merely a Muslim who tries to follow Allah's command, and the sunnah of the prophet and the way of the sahaaba through Qur'an and authentic ahadeeth, taking into account the four schools of thought, without changing anything in the deen, and without introducing anything new into the deen. I have no label. We are not supposed to have labels or groups in Islam.

What I have stated is not my opinion. I am not allowed to state an opinion on any Islamic matter. Anything I have stated is according the sunnah and practice of the sahaabah, may Allah be pleased with them.

As far as I know I have not insulted anyone in this thread. If I inadvertently have, then I sincerely ask for forgiveness. All I have stated is how the deen was at the time of the Prophet (sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam) and the sahaaba (may Allah be pleased with them) which is how it is supposed to be now and forever. If anyone finds that insulting...something is seriously wrong.....

:sl:
:sl:

Sister Insane Insaan, I think there was a misunderstood regarding to my latest post.
That was not a response to your post. I didn't talk about your perspective, I didn't talk about you, but I talked about different opinion between two group of Muslim people.

You didn't insult anyone and even I am very appreciate your post. If I said "And I hope no one use this thread for insult each other", that was not about you, but a warning to someone else.

I am really sorry if my previous post causing a misunderstanding, please forgive me.

:sl:

:)
Reply

Insaanah
11-16-2009, 09:39 AM
Originally Posted by ardianto
:sl:

Sister Insane Insaan, I think there was a misunderstood regarding to my latest post.
That was not a response to your post. I didn't talk about your perspective, I didn't talk about you, but I talked about different opinion between two group of Muslim people.

You didn't insult anyone and even I am very appreciate your post. If I said "And I hope no one use this thread for insult each other", that was not about you, but a warning to someone else.

I am really sorry if my previous post causing a misunderstanding, please forgive me.

:sl:

:)
:sl: Brother

I am very sorry. I guess I did misunderstand your last post, and I jumped to conclusions as to what you were implying. So you will have to forgive me lol.

:sl:
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
11-16-2009, 01:35 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
How about this popular shalawat ?.

Yaa Nabi salaam 'alaika
Yaa Rasool salaam 'alaika
Yaa Habiib salaam 'alaika
Sholawattullah 'alaika


Is this shirk or bid'ah lyric ?.
Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, yes i myself have said this durood when i visited the Prophet (Pbuh) grave in Medina.

This is to be said when you visit Rasulallah (Pbuh) grave because he can hear you just like the dead can hear when us when we visit a grave and say "Asalaamu Alaikum Ya Ahlal Qabur", they then reply to this and give salaam back.

Sameway we say this durood because we are present where Rasulallah (Pbuh) is lying in his grave.

How can we say it anywhere else when he is not present? According to hadith it is stated that when one sends durood on the Prophet (Pbuh) then an angel send the salaam to the Prophet and then send the salaam back back to us.

NOWHERE does it say that Rasulallah (Pbuh) can hear our durood and salaam and is everywhere. This is false and is clear shirk.

We cannot even say Allah is everywhere because "everywhere" is limited to time and space but Allah is not limited to time and space he is beyond that for time and space is only limited to this world.

Shaythan made people worship other than Allah in the sameway he is making a lot of Muslims do today because now we have people saying that Rasulallah (Pbuh) is everywhere and all around us and can hear us and answer our prayers. Then in the next few generations people will take it further by connecting him with Allah. Shaythan does everything gradually and is very clever and many of our Muslim brothers and sisters are going towards that direction today.

Rasulallah (Pbuh) did predict this and knew there will always be misled and miguided people who will have beliefs such as this.

So let us stick to the Qur'an and sunnah and not deviate from it because we are then risking falling into shirk and bida'a(innovation) and shirk can only lead to hell.

May Allah guide us to the straight path and not the path of those who went astray or were ignorant but the path of those whom Allah favoured. Ameen
Reply

ardianto
11-16-2009, 02:43 PM
Originally Posted by Hamza81
NOWHERE does it say that Rasulallah (Pbuh) can hear our durood and salaam and is everywhere. This is false and is clear shirk.

We cannot even say Allah is everywhere because "everywhere" is limited to time and space but Allah is not limited to time and space he is beyond that for time and space is only limited to this world.
I never heard anyone said Rasulallah (Pbuh) can hear our durood and salaam and is everywhere.
But many Ulama in my place say Allah is everywhere.

However, I will not deny your explanation because I think you are not wrong and I know you have strong arguments that based on Qur'an and hadeeth.
Insha Allah, I shall learn further about Islam to understand why you say "We cannot even say Allah is everywhere".

Jazak Allah khair.
Reply

Insaanah
11-16-2009, 03:53 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
I never heard anyone said Rasulallah (Pbuh) can hear our durood and salaam and is everywhere.
But many Ulama in my place say Allah is everywhere.

However, I will not deny your explanation because I think you are not wrong and I know you have strong arguments that based on Qur'an and hadeeth.
Insha Allah, I shall learn further about Islam to understand why you say "We cannot even say Allah is everywhere".

Jazak Allah khair.
:sl: brother

Watch this video link of Dr Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips, that a sister gave me in another thread. It will answer some of your questions about why we cannot say Allah is everywhere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jjvk5GxRIt4

Hope you find it helpful.

:sl:

EDIT: “In this connection, a hadith has been related by Malik in his Muwatta' and
by Muslim in his Sahih, that Muawiya ibn al-Hakam came to the Prophet
(Allah bless him and give him peace) and told him, "I am very newly from the
Jahiliyya, and now Allah has brought Islam," and he proceeded to ask about
various Jahiliyya practices, until at last he said that he had slapped his slave
girl, and asked if he should free her, as was obligatory if she was a believer.
The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) requested that she be
brought, and then asked her, "Where is Allah?" and she said, "Above the sky"
whereupon he asked her, "Who am I?" and she said, "You are the
Messenger of Allah"; at which he said, Free her, "for she is a believer" (Sahih
Muslim)”

This hadith is straight-forward proof that the Islamic belief ratified and taught by
the Prophet is that Allah, our Lord is above the sky. (and not everywhere). That appears to be a criteria for imaan from the above hadeeth.

Allah knows best.
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
11-16-2009, 04:55 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
I never heard anyone said Rasulallah (Pbuh) can hear our durood and salaam and is everywhere.
But many Ulama in my place say Allah is everywhere.

However, I will not deny your explanation because I think you are not wrong and I know you have strong arguments that based on Qur'an and hadeeth.
Insha Allah, I shall learn further about Islam to understand why you say "We cannot even say Allah is everywhere".

Jazak Allah khair.
A lot of brelvees do claim that Rasulallah (Pbuh) is omni-present and that he can hear us where ever we may be.

That is why a lot of them are heard saying: "Ya rasulallah" and "Asalawatu wasalaamu Alaika Ya Rasulallah" most of the time where ever they are especially after salah and before and after Adhan.

The brelvees are followers of Imam Ahmed Raza Barelvi. He may or may not have taught these beliefs but the brelvees of today claim to be his followers and continue to committ shirk and bida'a today especially in the Indian subcontinent which i have seen for myself a lot of their unIslamic practices and it does sadden me and is very unfortunate but we have to continue to try and teach them the right way and inform them of the truth and make dua that Allah guides them.

May Allah save us from going astray. Ameen
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
11-16-2009, 05:05 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
I never heard anyone said Rasulallah (Pbuh) can hear our durood and salaam and is everywhere.
But many Ulama in my place say Allah is everywhere.

However, I will not deny your explanation because I think you are not wrong and I know you have strong arguments that based on Qur'an and hadeeth.
Insha Allah, I shall learn further about Islam to understand why you say "We cannot even say Allah is everywhere".

Jazak Allah khair.
Question: How should a Muslim respond to where Allah Almighty is? As this is great Aqidah confusion between the ummah?


Answer: In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,


The issue of “Where is Allah?” is something that was never debated or made a matter of dispute among the Muslims throughout the ages and eras. Unfortunately, due to immense ignorance about our deen, certain Muslims spend and waist their precious time arguing about petty and trivial issues and forget about their real duties and responsibilities.

The belief (aqidah) one must have regarding his Lord and Creator is that Allah Almighty is One, there is nothing like Him, there is nothing that can overwhelm Him, there is no god besides Him and He is Eternal without a beginning and Enduring without end. He will neither perish nor come to an end and nothing happens except what He wills. No imagination can conceive of Him and no understanding can comprehend Him. He is different from any created being.

Allah Most High says about Himself:

“There is nothing whatever unto like Him.” (Surah al-Shura, 11).

And He says in Surah al-Ikhlas:

“And there is none like unto Him.” (112: 4).

Due to the above and other texts of the Qur’an and Sunnah, one of the major beliefs a Muslim must have regarding Allah Most High is that there is no creation that is similar to Him. If Allah is regarded to be similar or resemble or have any qualities of His creation, then that would constitute disbelief (Kufr).

Imam Abu Hamid al-Ghazali (Allah have mercy on him) states:

“Whoever thinks that Allah has a body made of organs, then he is an idol-worshipper…Whosoever worships a body is regarded a disbeliever by the consensus of all the scholars, the early scholars (salaf) and the late (muta’akhirun)” (Iljam al-Anam an Ilm al-Kalam, 6-8).

If one believes that there is nothing similar to Allah in any way, then his Aqidah is correct and there is no need for disputes and arguments. I believe that there isn’t a Muslim that really believes that Allah is similar to his creation in any way, thus disputes and arguments must be avoided. Yes, if one does believe that Allah has hands, feet, face, etc…that is similar to his creation, then without doubt this person would come out of the fold of Islam.

Regarding the question, “where is Allah?” firstly, it should be remembered that this is not something that one will be asked about on the day of Qiyamah. We are in need of people really learning about the basics of Islam, rather than engaging themselves in these matters. Those that argue and cause destruction with such issues are normally ignorant about even the basics of Salat, Zakat, Hajj, etc… We need to really wake up and smell the coffee!

Secondly, this question in itself is wrong. We ask regarding the whereabouts of a person that lives in time and space. For example, I encompass time, meaning I live in time, and I have a body that needs to fill some space.

However, Allah, Mighty and Majestic, is the creator of time and space. If we limit Him to any time or space, then this would imply that we resemble Him to his creation by giving Him a body, as space is limited. If one was to say that Allah is everywhere, then this is wrong, as ‘everywhere’ is limited and ends somewhere, whereas Allah is not limited.

Similarly, to say that Allah is on earth, sky, moon, sun, throne, etc… is also wrong, as all these things are limited and to limit Allah to any created thing is Kufr.

Imam al-Tahawi (Allah have mercy on him) states in his famous al-Aqida al-Tahawiyya:

“He (Allah) is beyond having limits placed on Him, or being restricted, or having parts or limbs. Nor is He contained by six directions as all created things are.” (P. 9).

Imam al-Nasafi (Allah have mercy on him) states:

“He (Allah) is not a body (jism), nor an atom (jawhar), nor is He something formed (musawwar), nor a thing limited (mahdud), nor a thing numbered (ma’dud), nor a thing portioned or divided, nor a thing compounded (mutarakkab), nor does He come to end in Himself. He is not described by quiddity (al-ma’hiya), or by quality (al-kayfiyya), nor is He placed in space (al-makan), and time (al-zaman) does not affect Him. Nothing resembles Him, that is to say, nothing is like Him.” (See: Sa’d al-Din al-Taftazani & Najm al-Din al-Nasafi, Sharh al-Aqa’id al- Nasafiyya, 92-97).

In conclusion, one must have the Aqidah that Allah Most High is pure from space and time. It is wrong to say that He is everywhere and it is also wrong to believe that He is on something, as all these are limited whereas Allah Almighty is limitless. However, we must believe that His knowledge encompasses everything, and he knows, sees and listens to everything.


And Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Muhammad ibn Adam al-Kawthari
Reply

Sameera
11-16-2009, 06:38 PM
Salams,

Sending salutations to the Prophet is important and it is in the Quran, Muslims do it each time after every obligatory prayer.

Qur’an 33:56

[b]Verily, Allah and His Angels send blessings on the Prophet: O you who believe! Send blessings on him, and salute him with a worthy salutation. [b]

Muslim narrated in his Sahih from Abu Hurairah (may Allah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allah (may Allah bless him and give him peace) said ‘he who invokes blessings on me once, Allah sends ten blessings upon him.’

Narrated by Ubai bin Ka’ab (may Allah be pleased with him), who said; ‘I said, ‘O Messenger of Allah, I supplicate often, so how much of my supplication should I devote to you?’ He replied, ‘as you desire’. I said, ‘a quarter of it?’ He said ‘as you desire, but if you were to increase upon this, it would be better for you.’ I said, ‘half of it?’ He said, ‘as you desire, but if you were to increase upon this, it would be better for you.’ I said, ‘two-thirds of it?’ He said again, ‘as you desire, but if you were to increase upon this, it would be better for you.’ Finally I said, ‘and if I dedicate my supplication in its entirety to you?’ He said, ‘then your needs will be satisfied, and your sins forgiven.’

Narrated by Ahmad, Tirmidhi, and Hakim, who declared it to be a rigorously authenticated tradition of the Prophet (may Allah bless him and give him peace).

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/salawat.htm
Reply

Sameera
11-16-2009, 06:44 PM
Salams,

Muhammad ibn Ahmad al-Marwazi said:

-- I once heard Ahmad ibn Hanbal say, 'Whenever you enter a cemetary, recite the Opening Chapter of the Book, the Two Refuge-taking Chapters, and Say: He is God, the One. Make the reward of all this over to the people of the cemetary, for it will reach them.'

The Remembrance of Death and the Afterlife," translation by T.J. Winter.
Reply

Sameera
11-16-2009, 06:59 PM
Rasool Allah [saww] addressing the Kuffar who were killed in the battle of Badr

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

"The Messenger of Allah spoke to the People (buried) in the Well saying: "Have you found out that what your Lord had promised you is true?" then someone exclaimed: "Are you calling out to the dead!" The Prophet replied: "You do not hear better than they do, except they do not respond."

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 23, Number 452

http://www.********************/answ...r/en/chap2.php
Reply

Sameera
11-16-2009, 07:01 PM
Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) came to the graveyard and said:

"Peace be upon you! (O) the abode of the believing people and we, if God so wills, are about to join you. I love to see my brothers. They (the hearers) said: Aren't we your brothers-Messenger of Allah? He said: You are my companions, and our brothers are those who have, so far, not come into the world."

Sahih Muslim, Book 002, Number 0482

Proof from Quran and Hadith that dead can hear
Reply

Insaanah
11-16-2009, 07:16 PM
QUOTE=Sameera;1247365]Salams,

Muhammad ibn Ahmad al-Marwazi said:

-- I once heard Ahmad ibn Hanbal say, 'Whenever you enter a cemetary, recite the Opening Chapter of the Book, the Two Refuge-taking Chapters, and Say: He is God, the One. Make the reward of all this over to the people of the cemetary, for it will reach them.'

The Remembrance of Death and the Afterlife," translation by T.J. Winter.[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Sameera
Rasool Allah [saww] addressing the Kuffar who were killed in the battle of Badr

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

"The Messenger of Allah spoke to the People (buried) in the Well saying: "Have you found out that what your Lord had promised you is true?" then someone exclaimed: "Are you calling out to the dead!" The Prophet replied: "You do not hear better than they do, except they do not respond."

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 23, Number 452

http://www.********************/answ...r/en/chap2.php
Originally Posted by Sameera
Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) came to the graveyard and said:

"Peace be upon you! (O) the abode of the believing people and we, if God so wills, are about to join you. I love to see my brothers. They (the hearers) said: Aren't we your brothers-Messenger of Allah? He said: You are my companions, and our brothers are those who have, so far, not come into the world."

Sahih Muslim, Book 002, Number 0482

Proof from Quran and Hadith that dead can hear
:sl:

We all give salaams to the dead when we visit the graveyard, and to rasoolullah sallallahu alaihi wa sallam, at his blessed raudha, because the dead can hear what is being said in front of them. Is there any authentic evidence of rasoolullah sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam having talked to or invoked the dead in a different country, or in another part of the same country, believing that they could hear him, or any of his companions having done that after his death, or having taught us to do so? I believe that there is no authentic evidence to support such a claim.

:sl:
Reply

Sameera
11-16-2009, 07:31 PM
Here is what I have found:


Ibn al-Qayyim writes that the Prophet of Allah (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) said:

"Send salutations on me, but send more salutations on Friday. When you recite the salutation, your voice will reach me wherever you are. Some Companions asked, "Even after your death?" The Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) replied, "Allah has made it unlawful for the earth to decompose my body"

[Ibn-al-Qayyim, Jala-ul-Afhaan, page 145]

The Messenger of Allah, (May Allah bless him and grant him peace), heard the footsteps of Bilal,may Allah be pleased with Him, in Paradise.

[Bukhari and Muslim Kitab-al-Manaqib., fazail Bilal]

"The Messenger of Allah (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) stated: 'I hear the voice of every person who sends salams (peace and blessings) upon me, wherever he may be.'

[Ibn-al-Qayyim, Jala-al-Afham, page 145]

Our Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) said: 'On the night of Mi'raj I passed Prophet Musa's grave.He was standing in his grave and offering salat.'

This is well away from this world, not just another country.

http://www.islamicinformationcentre.co.uk/alsunna1.htm
Reply

Sameera
11-16-2009, 07:43 PM
Salams Sis Sanity,

Do you not say the durood (salutations) to the prophet in salah?

We do it all the time and we are (Sunni) Muslims. As far as I know, you do not have to be at the prophet's grave in order to send salutations.

WS
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
11-16-2009, 08:09 PM
Originally Posted by Sameera
Salams Sis Sanity,

Do you not say the durood (salutations) to the prophet in salah?

We do it all the time and we are (Sunni) Muslims. As far as I know, you do not have to be at the prophet's grave in order to send salutations.

WS
Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, My sister no one is disputing the fact that we should send durood and salaam to the Prophet Muhammed (Pbuh) as much as we can but what is false for you to state is that Rasulallah (Pbuh) can hear us wherever he is.

My sister be very careful when quoting from brelvee websites as a lot of their beliefs are heretical and false and it is knowledge that we should aqcuire that will fill in the gaps in our lack of knowledge and it is incumbant that we seek knowledge from the right sources and not of those who have heretical and erroneous beliefs.

The Qur’an denies the possibility of the dead in their graves possessing the faculty of hearing. Allah , the Blessed and Exalted, states:

“Verily you cannot make the dead hear and you can not make the deaf hear the call when they turn their backs and retreat.” [Surah an-Naml 27:80]

“The living and the dead are not alike. Allah makes whoever he wishes hear, but you cannot make those in the graves hear.” [Surah Fatir 35:22]

In the first verse Allah addresses His messenger, Muhammad (salallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam), reminding him that he cannot make the disbelievers hear the invitation to Islam, for they are like the dead, who do not hear either. In the second verse Allah points to the difference between the living and the dead – they are not all alike. He further clarifies to His prophet that he cannot make the rejectors of faith hear the message (for they are dead in heart and in spirit) any more than he can make those in the graves hear what is spoken to them!

Just as the Qur’an denies the possibility of the deceased possessing the faculty of hearing, there are a number of texts in the sunnah which arrive at the same conclusion. One such hadith follows:

Ibn Mas’ud reported that the Prophet (salallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said: “[Allah has angels who travel about the earth; they [do and will] convey to me the peace greeting from my ummah.”
[Authentically reported by Abu Dawud]

This hadith clarifies that the Prophet (salallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) does not hear the greetings of peace from Muslims when they pronounce it upon him, for if he could hear it directly, there would be no need of angels to convey it to him.
Reply

Sameera
11-16-2009, 08:52 PM
Originally Posted by Hamza81
Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, My sister no one is disputing the fact that we should send durood and salaam to the Prophet Muhammed (Pbuh) as much as we can but what is false for you to state is that Rasulallah (Pbuh) can hear us wherever he is.
Can you please tell wheer did I quote this?

I have not quoted anything of teh sort. I am refering solely to Quran verses and hadiths. The sch0lar named who stated this was Ibn Qayyum

My sister be very careful when quoting from brelvee websites
Can you pelase tell me which of the quotes I posted are from "brelvee"?

Brother, I look at the evidence and if there is evidence from the Quran and sound hadith or the sunnah then I will believe whoever it is. You must have heard of the hadith about shaytan telling a man to read ayatul kursi, when he was about to steal soemthing from the house and so the man went to the prophet and the prophet said he was shaytan but right about reciting ayatul kursi? So why should we dicriminate against other Muslims when we are ordered by Allah swt to stay united?

Anyone who firmly believes in Allah, and the prophet is the messenger of Allah, is a Muslim.
Reply

Sameera
11-16-2009, 08:56 PM
There is no edit or delete button, so I've edited it again:


Originally Posted by Hamza81
Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, My sister no one is disputing the fact that we should send durood and salaam to the Prophet Muhammed (Pbuh) as much as we can but what is false for you to state is that Rasulallah (Pbuh) can hear us wherever he is.
Salams,

Can you please tell where did I quote this?

I have not quoted anything of the sort. I am referring solely to Quran verses and hadiths. The scholar who stated this was Ibn Qayyim

My sister be very careful when quoting from brelvee websites
Can you please tell me which of the quotes I posted are from "brelvee"?

Brother, I look at the evidence and if there is evidence from the Quran and sound hadith or the sunnah then I will believe whoever it is. You must have heard of the hadith about shaytan telling a man to read ayatul kursi, when he was about to steal something from the house and so the man went to the prophet and the prophet said he was shaytan but right about reciting ayatul kursi? So why should we discriminate against other Muslims when we are ordered by Allah swt to stay united?

Anyone who firmly believes in Allah, and the prophet is the messenger of Allah, is a Muslim.
Reply

Sameera
11-16-2009, 09:13 PM
Br Hamza,

Assalamualaikum

I totally agree that there is no question about doing shirk, we must avoid shirk as far as possible. Only Allah swt can help us and only He can grant our prayers.

However there is the issue of tawssul in Islam.

Regarding the verses on the Quran about the dead can not hear:

“Verily you cannot make the dead hear and you can not make the deaf hear the call when they turn their backs and retreat.” [Surah an-Naml 27:80]

“The living and the dead are not alike. Allah makes whoever he wishes hear, but you cannot make those in the graves hear.” [Surah Fatir 35:22]
Jazak Allahkhair for pointing this out, but these verses can mean one can not make disbelievers to hear or anyone to hear in the graves, unless Allah swt wills it.

Can you please tell me why are the Prophets are talking to the dead in the Quran verses if they really can't hear?

See also these verses:

[Yusufali 7:78] So the earthquake took them unawares, and they lay prostrate in their homes in the morning!

[Yusufali 7:79] So Salih left them, saying: "O my people! I did indeed convey to you the message for which I was sent by my Lord: I gave you good counsel, but ye love not good counsellors!"

Yusufali 7:91] But the earthquake took them unawares, and they lay prostrate in their homes before the morning!

[Yusufali 7:92] The men who reject Shu'aib became as if they had never been in the homes where they had flourished: the men who rejected Shu'aib - it was they who were ruined!

[Yusufali 7:93] So Shu'aib left them, saying:"O my people! I did indeed convey to you the messages for which I was sent by my Lord: I gave you good counsel, but how shall I lament over a people who refuse to believe!"

Hadith Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

"The Messenger of Allah spoke to the People (buried) in the Well saying: "Have you found out that what your Lord had promised you is true?" then someone exclaimed: "Are you calling out to the dead!" The Prophet replied: "You do not hear better than they do, except they do not respond."

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 23, Number 452

http://www.********************/answ...r/en/chap2.php
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
11-16-2009, 10:21 PM
Originally Posted by Sameera
There is no edit or delete button, so I've edited it again:

Salams,

Can you please tell where did I quote this?

I have not quoted anything of the sort. I am referring solely to Quran verses and hadiths. The scholar who stated this was Ibn Qayyim

Can you please tell me which of the quotes I posted are from "brelvee"?

Brother, I look at the evidence and if there is evidence from the Quran and sound hadith or the sunnah then I will believe whoever it is. You must have heard of the hadith about shaytan telling a man to read ayatul kursi, when he was about to steal something from the house and so the man went to the prophet and the prophet said he was shaytan but right about reciting ayatul kursi? So why should we discriminate against other Muslims when we are ordered by Allah swt to stay united?

Anyone who firmly believes in Allah, and the prophet is the messenger of Allah, is a Muslim.
Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb,

It is clear that the website that you quoted below is from brelvee inclined website as only a brelvee would try to prove the permissablity of saying "Ya Rasulallah".

http://www.islamicinformationcentre.co.uk/alsunna1.htm

Also you pasted those quotes to imply Rasulallah (Pbuh) can hear us that is why i said to you not to be inclined to think like the brelvees do as many of their beliefs are heretical and erronious and have already been clearly refuted by scholars of Ahlus Sunnah Wal jama'ah.

Sister we have not got adequate knowledge to translate the Qur'an and Sunnah how we please. That is why we refer to knowledgable and reliable scholars. If we started interpreting Qur'an and hadith by ourselves then there would be a million times more misguided people in this world than there already are. That is why Allah tells us in the Qur'an that if you do not know then refer to those who know and those who know are the scholars.

Sister your analogy of connecting shaythan in giving the man knowledge of aytul Kursi and getting knowledge from misguided people does'nt make sense. My sister we are one ummah and Allah almighty and Rasulallah (Pbuh) told us to stay united and hold firmly to the flag of Islam but Unfortunatley there are MANY misguided and individuals and groups out there who claim to be on the right path and they also try to mislead others.

This is something we should not allow. We should stick to authentic Islam and NOWHERE is authentic Islam are the heretical and erronious beliefs of brelvees found because what they believe is shirk and bida'ah and if you say you want to stick to Qur'an and Sunnah then why do you take from those who commit bida'a?

Surely whatever is not found in the Qur'an and sunnah is an innovation and Rasulallah (Pbuh) urged us to keep well away from those who innovate!

There are a number of authentic narrations relating the Prophet’s address to the corpses of the mushrikeen (polytheists) of Quraysh who were slain by the believers in the Battle of Badr and then thrown into a dried well.

Abu Talhah reported: “On the day of the Battle of Badr, Allah ’s Prophet (salallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) ordered that the bodies of twenty-four leaders of the Quraysh be thrown into one of the foul, abandoned wells of Badr. On the third day after the battle the Prophet called for his mount and saddled it. Then he set out, so his companions followed him. They said amongst themselves, “He must be going to something important.” When the Prophet (salallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) arrived at the well, he stood at its edge and began addressing those therein by calling upon them by their names, “O so and so, son of so and so; and you, so and so, son of so and so! Would it not have been easier to have obeyed Allah and His Messenger? We have found that which our Lord promised us to be true. Did you find what your Lord promised you to be true? Thereupon ‘Umar said, “O Messenger of Allah , what are you saying to these bodies without souls?! Do they hear? For Allah , the Majestic and Mighty, says, “Verily, you cannot make the dead hear.” [Surah an-Naml 27:80] The Prophet (salallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) answered, “By Him in whose hand lies the soul of Muhammad, you did not hear better than them and what i just said.” Qatadah added: “Allah brought them back to life (momentarily) in order to make them hear as a means of scorn and belittlement and [so that they would feel] regret and remorse.”
[Authentically related by al-Bukhari and Muslim]

In another narration of this incident there is a slight variation in the wording of the text which follows:

“Ibn ‘Umar related: “The Prophet (salallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) stood at the edge of a well at Badr and said, “Did you find the promise of your Lord to be true?” Then he added, “Verily at this moment they hear what I am saying.” Later on, this was mentioned to ‘A’ishah, whereupon she commented, “What the Prophet (salallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) meant was, “Now they know that what I used to tell them is the truth.” Then she recited, “Verily you cannot make the dead hear,” [Surah an-Naml 27:80] up to the end of the verse.”
[Related authentically by al-Bukhari and others]

Some often misconstrue the texts of the two aforementioned hadiths as proof for the contention that the dead can hear. However, the following argumentation refutes such a claim.

This miraculous circumstance in which the corpses of the slain Quraysh were made to hear the Prophet’s address to them is a special case – an exception to the general rule that the dead do not hear. By a miracle, Allah , the Almighty, made them hear the scolding from the Prophet (salallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) – only for the moment he spoke to them! This is clearly proven by the second narration itself, for their hearing was said to be conditioned by the moment when the Prophet (salallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) called out to them in scorn and rebuke. He said, “At this moment they hear what I am saying.” Furthermore, in the first narration the Prophet (salallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) does not deny ‘Umar’s sound understanding of the verse’s general ruling that the does do not hear. Rather, the Prophet (salallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) merely clarifies for ‘Umar that what occurred at Badr was a divine miracle and, therefore, an exception to the general ruling of the verse.
Reply

Sameera
11-18-2009, 07:05 PM
Originally Posted by Hamza81
It is clear that the website that you quoted below is from brelvee inclined website as only a brelvee would try to prove the permissablity of saying "Ya Rasulallah".

http://www.islamicinformationcentre.co.uk/alsunna1.htm
Salams,

You are incorrect to pick on only one link and leave out the rest of the info. I have not quoted anything unislamic, as I have quoted numerous Quran and authentic hadiths from different sites, which even you agree to. And it seems that you haven't really read or understood them, except only in context of what your own scholars say. Different scholars have differences of views and opinions.

I am sorry but I do not agree with you defaming other Muslims as I do not think this is Islamic to cause disunity. I am neither a breveli or a shia and I have no "anology" or agenda. I am simple Muslim trying to follow Allah swt and the messenger pbuh.

Although I do agree that we should be careful of not commiting any shirk (association to Allah in worship), I am not convinced of your arguments against others and unfortunately I have no more time available to spend on this subject.

Wasalam
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
11-18-2009, 09:44 PM
Originally Posted by Sameera
Salams,

You are incorrect to pick on only one link and leave out the rest of the info. I have not quoted anything unislamic, as I have quoted numerous Quran and authentic hadiths from different sites, which even you agree to. And it seems that you haven't really read or understood them, except only in context of what your own scholars say. Different scholars have differences of views and opinions.

I am sorry but I do not agree with you defaming other Muslims as I do not think this is Islamic to cause disunity. I am neither a breveli or a shia and I have no "anology" or agenda. I am simple Muslim trying to follow Allah swt and the messenger pbuh.

Although I do agree that we should be careful of not commiting any shirk (association to Allah in worship), I am not convinced of your arguments against others and unfortunately I have no more time available to spend on this subject.

Wasalam
Sister it is very easy for ANYONE to pick up hadith and quote them out of context not even wanting to understand what they mean and what their deeper meanings are.

In an ideal world we would all love unity but unfortunatley sister in the real world there are ALWAYS going to be different factions or groups believing different things.

There is no use being under an illusion that this is'nt the case because unfortunatley there will ALWAYS be people who will misinterpret hadith and Qur'an to suit their own whims and desires and what they want the verses or hadith to mean.

This is why is is essential to follow the right scholars and the majority and consensus of the ulema and scholars of Islam is that Rasulallah (Pbuh) is NOT everywhere and CANNOT hear us wherever we are and we CANNOT say "Ya Rasulallah".

Can you quote us which scholars - if they are scholars- have stated otherwise?

Now it is upto you to believe what you want to believe but the facts are the facts and you as a lay person CANNOT our of your little knowledge dispute what the sahaba, salaf-us-saaliheen and 1500 years of the greatest fuqaha,mufasireen,muhaditheen and scholars have stated and established. Jazakallah khayran.
Reply

Ali_slave of Allah
11-19-2009, 01:41 PM
“The living and the dead are not alike. Allah makes whoever he wishes hear, but you cannot make those in the graves hear.” [Surah Fatir 35:22]

why do you ignore this. dont play arround with the mutashaabihaat stick to the mu7kam
Reply

Ali_slave of Allah
11-19-2009, 01:46 PM
and walahi if the Messenger of Allaah salallahu alayhi wasallam has any authority after this death on this world, meaning if he can do anything in this world, he would have done when Umar radia Allahu 'anhu was killed, if He salallahu alayhi wasallam could do anything he would stop the fitnah that happened between the sahaaba and all the blood that was spilled.

The living and the dead are not alike. Allah makes whoever he wishes hear, but you cannot make those in the graves hear.” [Surah Fatir 35:22]

indeed the living and the dead are not alike.
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
11-19-2009, 10:53 PM
Originally Posted by Ali_slave of Allah
and walahi if the Messenger of Allaah salallahu alayhi wasallam has any authority after this death on this world, meaning if he can do anything in this world, he would have done when Umar radia Allahu 'anhu was killed, if He salallahu alayhi wasallam could do anything he would stop the fitnah that happened between the sahaaba and all the blood that was spilled.

The living and the dead are not alike. Allah makes whoever he wishes hear, but you cannot make those in the graves hear.” [Surah Fatir 35:22]

indeed the living and the dead are not alike.
Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, jazakallah khayran my brother for establishing the truth.
Reply

Insaanah
11-22-2009, 11:18 PM
Originally Posted by Insane Insaan
We all give salaams to the dead when we visit the graveyard, and to rasoolullah sallallahu alaihi wa sallam, at his blessed raudha, because the dead can hear what is being said in front of them. Is there any authentic evidence of rasoolullah sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam having talked to or invoked the dead in a different country, or in another part of the same country, believing that they could hear him, or any of his companions having done that after his death, or having taught us to do so? I believe that there is no authentic evidence to support such a claim.
:sl:

Jazaakallah khairan katheeran fiddunyaa wal aakhirah for your corrections brothers.

I think what I erroneously stated above came (in my mind) from the hadith about rasoolullah sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam returning salaams of those who send salaams, and also regarding the fact that the deceased can hear the footsteps of those carrying the bier or walking away. After your posts I did a bit more research, and found the following :

"Narrated by Abu Dawood, 2041, with a hasan isnaad from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) who said that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There is no one who sends salaams upon me but Allaah will restore to me my soul so that I may return his salaams.” This does not mean that he hears the words of the one who sends salaams. Rather it is possible that he comes to know of those salaams when the angels convey that to him. If we assume that he hears the words of the one who sends salaams, this is an exception from the general rule, as in the case of the dead hearing the footsteps of those who carry his bier, and as in the case of the slain kuffaar in the well at Badr who heard the call of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) when he said to them: “Have you found your Lord’s promise to be true? For we have found our Lord’s promise to be true.” (See Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 1/313, 318, 321)."

From Sheikh Salih al-Munajjid: http://islamqa.com/en/ref/21524/dead%20hear

Jazaakallah khairan once again and may Allah forgive me my mistake. Ameen.

:sl:
Reply

unitedmuslim73
01-04-2010, 08:18 PM
Recently in a debate session, i heard that naats or nasheeds or latmiyat( other names too) found its origin in hadith wer the prophet had allowed people to sing his praise wen he came in madinah.

so what is it about?
Reply

maisha
01-07-2010, 11:25 PM
i dont no wat naats are lol:)
Reply

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